The 12th Man

[Marcus Bryant]

As of now, these 9 will be with the 2005-06 Spurs:

Parker
Ginobili
Bowen
Duncan
Mohammed
Udrih
Barry
Horry
Nesterovic

Devin Brown will make 10, if he re-signs with the Spurs. All indications are that is a strong possibility.

If the Spurs are able to bring in Luis Scola, then the Spurs will be left with one active roster spot available heading into next season.

If Glenn Robinson makes 12, excellent. But that remains to be seen.

The Spurs have an option on Linton Johnson III for one more season which they have yet to exercise.

I'm of the opinion that at the end of the bench, you want an experienced vet there, someone who is willing to not see a lot of minutes during the regular season, but someone who is able to fill in during the playoffs whenever needed.

This shouldn't be a radical concept to Spurs fans, as guys like Danny Ferry and Steve Kerr have stepped up in crucial moments in the postseason.

In the recently concluded title run, the Spurs went to Glenn Robinson in certain spots and he came through.

The Spurs play for championships. That's what they've always been about since Pop took over. At the end of that bench, I think you need an experienced vet, someone who can step in and fill a role as needed. Someone who will cost the minimum and who wants a shot at a ring (or perhaps another).

Looking at this offseason, the following free agents fit the mold of what I am talking about. With the 12th man, you want a player more than anything else. Leave the projects for IR. They can spend time in the NDBL working on their game.

Darrell Armstrong
Jon Barry
Toni Kukoc
Bo Outlaw
Anthony Peeler
Wesley Person
Scott Williams

-MB

[Solid D]

Year after year, the 12th man has been the IR Bubble Boy.

[Marcus Bryant]

It's shaping up to be a deeper team next season. I guess DFerry and Kerr were the 10th and 11th men in '03, for the record.

[xcoriate]

Of those mentioned I like Kukoc, Outlaw and Armstrong.

I think I even like them in that order.

[Solid D]

With the Spurs, now, it's only 1 step away from "Core Player" to IR Bubble Guy.

[JUUOT]

i think LJIII could make it since the veteran theory role will be taken by Barry and Horry.

[TheTruth]

Jon Barry, Armstrong, or LJ III

[Marcus Bryant]

If the Spurs went strictly by need, then Kukoc and Person should be attractive.

[easjer]

Forgive my ignorance - aren't they allowed 14 under the new CBA?

Otherwise, I agree with JUUOT.

[Extra Stout]

Isn't the active roster 14 now? Shouldn't this thread be titled "The 14th Man" even though you lose the whole Aggie reference?

[TheTruth]

If the Spurs went strictly by need, then Kukoc and Person should be attractive.
The Spurs need old players that can do nothing but shoot threes?

[Marcus Bryant]

Active rosters will still be limited to 12. The 14 roster number refers to a requirement that the average NBA roster is comprised of 14 men (total). It was a concession to the players' union, I believe.

[Marcus Bryant]

The Spurs need old players that can do nothing but shoot threes?

Backup 3.

[TheTruth]

Backup 3.
LJIII does the same things, but cheaper.

[Marcus Bryant]

You sign either of those guys for the minimum and the league picks up most, if not all of the tab.

[Marcus Bryant]

LJIII does the same things, but cheaper.


Also, LJ III doesn't have the skill or experience that those guys have. You've missed the point of the thread.

[Solid D]

Hey Marcus Bryant. A Longhorn starting a thread called the 12th Man?

[Marcus Bryant]

I'm a "Longhorn"?

[mookie2001]

the third
vital to the fourth reign
he's got more upside than andrew bynum

[Solid D]

I'm a "Longhorn"?

Oops, sorry...are you in Austin?

[Marcus Bryant]

I suppose I could claim both. Call me a confused Texan, if you like.

[TheTruth]

Also, LJ III doesn't have the skill or experience that those guys have. You've missed the point of the thread.
I get the point. You seem to think that a 12th man with experience is important to win a championship. Usually I'd agree, but the spurs did just fine last year without one. It's not like the Spurs are lacking with big game experience or leadership. The entire lineup is loaded with both. I don't see wasting the roster spot on a player like Kukoc.

[Marcus Bryant]

It's not about adding big game experience or leadership to the team. It's about having an experienced player deep on the bench who you can call on in spots and who won't have a problem with that role. The Spurs will be a little lucky if they have the opportunity to "waste" a spot on a player like Kukoc next season.

Yet again in this year's title run, in certain spots the Spurs called on Glenn Robinson, a guy who a month earlier had rolled off his couch and onto the Spurs' roster.

The Spurs didn't need experience or leadership, did they? No, but they benefitted from having an experienced guy deep on the bench.

[easjer]

Hell, just head on over to UH and rid yourself of the confusion, while entertaining the delusion that you are just as important in Texas as UT or A&M, Marcus.

I agree with The Truth - I'd rather have LJIII and his youth and defense and work on his offense than a vet. We've got plenty of vets, including the stars. I don't think we need another when we can groom in house for a new Bruce Bowen. They're bringing in a shooting coach - he can work with LJIII as well as Parker and the Free Throw Crew.

[JUUOT]

i think the spurs experience is loaded with horry, Duncan, bowen

and on another scale manu and brent.

what we need is bet on youth to get the needed experience

[Marcus Bryant]

Hell, just head on over to UH and rid yourself of the confusion, while entertaining the delusion that you are just as important in Texas as UT or A&M, Marcus.

That made no sense whatsoever.

[mattyc]

Wesley Person

Make it so.

[TheTruth]

It's not about adding big game experience or leadership to the team. It's about having an experienced player deep on the bench who you can call on in spots and who won't have a problem with that role. The Spurs will be a little lucky if they have the opportunity to "waste" a spot on a player like Kukoc next season.

Yet again in this year's title run, in certain spots the Spurs called on Glenn Robinson, a guy who a month earlier had rolled off his couch and onto the Spurs' roster.

The Spurs didn't need experience or leadership, did they? No, but they benefitted from having an experienced guy deep on the bench.
I agree that Glen Robinson came up huge for us last year. But i see that role going to Devin more this year. If healthy Devin can do all the things that you want from GRob or Kukoc, but better.

[Solid D]

The Spurs need one of each of a Big, a Wing, and a PG.

Scola and Brown are not anywhere near the top percentile of the growth chart for their position, but the Pivot has more size options than there is on the Wing. That's why I see Devin as a bubble player. The Spurs have no Wings over 6'-6" other than Bruce. The 3rd PG could easily be a cheap Wilks, Barrett, or rookie FA like John Lucas III so the greater need is a Wing with size and LJIII with a questionable future doesn't cut it for me. A very good, no-tweener Wing has got to be found and signed next. Kukoc fills the size bill but I don't think he's that good any more. If only the Spurs had a Sanikidze ready to go.

[Marcus Bryant]

Well there you go, the Spurs had an injury and GRob stepped up.

Kinda like DFerry in Game 2 of the 2003 1st round series against the Suns.

You never know what's going to happen in the postseason.

[TheTruth]

So that means another younger player couldn't have done the things that GRob did last year in the playoffs? A younger player couldn't hit a couple of open jumpers, or play inspired defense?

[Solid D]

Could Wes Person's defensive liabilities allow him to average a Plus on the Plus/Minus numbers?

[Marcus Bryant]

What are the odds? I'd say much better for an experienced vet.

[Marcus Bryant]

Could Wes Person's defensive liabilities allow him to average a Plus on the Plus/Minus numbers?

You have a guy who can come in and fit in your motion O. He should be able to grasp the basics of the Spurs' team D.

[TheTruth]

Could Wes Person's defensive liabilities allow him to average a Plus on the Plus/Minus numbers?
There is a difference between not wanting to play D (GRob before coming over) and not being able to play D (wesley person now). Wesley person wouldn't be a good signing.

[Marcus Bryant]

Person can fit in the Spurs' D. It's amazing how the defensive abilities of players suddenly appear when they join the Spurs. Perhaps it comes from having 1 or 2 shotblockers backing up guys should they get beat by their man.

[TheTruth]

Person can fit in the Spurs' D. It's amazing how the defensive abilities of players suddenly appear when they join the Spurs. Perhaps it comes from having 1 or 2 shotblockers backing up guys should they get beat by their man.
I forgot that the Spurs had that magical dust that can make over the hill players that CAN'T (Not won't) play D anymore suddenly D up. Wesley person didn't play in 3 of the games against the spurs because he was too big a liability on the Defensive end. The fact that the Nuggets couldn't buy an open shot to fall shows you just how much they thought of his defensive abilities.

[Marcus Bryant]

The Spurs apparently sprinkled some on Glenn Robinson because everyone and their dog was surprised that he actually showed some defensive effort.

Sorry man, the Spurs' recent playoff history runs counter to your argument.

[mattyc]

How could you go wrong with the brother of the Rifleman?

Question.

[Notorious H.O.P.]

I think the GRob was just a new guy trying to fit in and knowing that his likelyhood of getting a ring was high. It's easy to put forth the effort and accept small cash in the short term but once you start talking long term, it becomes a whole other ball game. The short bursts of defensive intensity and teamplay from someone like GRob could easily go back to the non-defensive ball hogging tendencies of the past. GRob had a lot to gain by putting extra effort in and it paid off. Both in his repaired rep and future contract. Maybe he truly is a changed man by going through his humbling experience of last year and finally being part of a team but I don't think he'll take small potatoes to be here again and he has to go for his one last good contract so a short term signing doesn't seem likely either. It's an awesome luxury to have someone of his caliber as one of our 10th-12th guys on the bench but he still has enough game left in him that he's not going to want to settle for that. And we've already got some veteran talent on the team so I think we should be focusing on a young guy to fit the long 3 bill.

[beirmeistr]

Comparing Person and Kukoj, who is a better hustler? Perhaps the question should be, does either one hustle?