Kobe compares himself to MJ again...discusses that he was too talented for Shaq

[Thebesteva]

This is getting beyond ridiculous already, I thought I was reading an Onion article. Kobe was discussing why he and Shaq inevitably had to go their separate ways in a Yahoo article.

:lol Thinks he is MJ
:lol Stuck at 5
:lol Can't pass the first round without an elite center and Phil Jackson

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nba--as-the-lakers-prepare-to-retire-shaq-s-jersey--kobe-now-appreciates-his-former-foe-184336128.html


"It was inevitable," Bryant said. "You can't expect Michael [Jordan] to play with Wilt [Chamberlain] for his entire career. That's just not going to work. I had too much talent and too much to showcase. And then there was a challenge issued by him about me not being able to win without him. That's a challenge I couldn't pass.

"But ultimately during those years I sacrificed a lot, numbers-wise, to play with him. The thing that always bothered me was people said, 'Well, Kobe's selfish.' I'm not selfish. If I was selfish, I would have left. I gave up a lot to play with him."

[The Batman]

:lol Kobe. If it wasnt for Shaq Kobe wouldnt have developed like he did

[Fabbs]

http://www.medicinenet.com/narcissistic_personality_disorder/article.htm

The juvenile version.

[Thread]

This is getting beyond ridiculous already, I thought I was reading an Onion article. Kobe was discussing why he and Shaq inevitably had to go their separate ways in a Yahoo article.

:lol Thinks he is MJ
:lol Stuck at 5
:lol Can't pass the first round without an elite center and Phil Jackson

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nba--as-the-lakers-prepare-to-retire-shaq-s-jersey--kobe-now-appreciates-his-former-foe-184336128.html


:lol Kobe. If it wasnt for Shaq Kobe wouldnt have developed like he did


http://www.medicinenet.com/narcissistic_personality_disorder/article.htm

The juvenile version.

Boiled down:::

Kobe: 2

Daddy: 1

[The Batman]

Boiled down:::

Kobe: 2

Daddy: 1
And Kobe is still bitter :lol

[Thread]

And Kobe is still bitter :lol

This is true.

It's never enough for a sociopath.

[Killakobe81]

This is getting beyond ridiculous already, I thought I was reading an Onion article. Kobe was discussing why he and Shaq inevitably had to go their separate ways in a Yahoo article.

:lol Thinks he is MJ
:lol Stuck at 5
:lol Can't pass the first round without an elite center and Phil Jackson

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nba--as-the-lakers-prepare-to-retire-shaq-s-jersey--kobe-now-appreciates-his-former-foe-184336128.html

Not that I doubt his ego puts him on equal footing with MJ (he is not) ... I think he was just using those two names for example purposes. Wilt being the most dominant scoring center and MJ the most dominant scoring perimter player. Shaq/Kobe are 4th and 6th all-time in scoring who was he supposed to use as examples David Robinson and Reggie Miller?!

Not saying Kobe is not an egotistical ass he is, but I think this is much ado about nothing tbh ...we all know Kobe's ego is biggertrhan Kanye's.

The next line is the one that should make people roll their eyes ("I had to much talent to showcase") ... even as a Laker fan I wish he had not said that, but at least he is honest. He also went on to say that winning without Shaq was an obsession which may have worked for us in the end ... but I would of preferred he had not said that either. OF course he won but the motives do sound selfish no matter what he says.

And of course Kobe may not have developed the same without Shaq despite having to share their were plusses and minuses playing with Shaq. Plus Shaq drew double teams etc. But he also clogged the lane with two big men ...he and his defender.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Chamberlain took a lesser role with the Lakers and deferred scoring to West, Baylor and Goodrich so he could concentrate on dominating on defense and the boards. Chamberlain was a consummate sportsman. Him doing that was a huge reason why that 73 squad was the best team to ever grace a basketball court.

MJ alienated people sure but AFAIK he never drove someone off his team because they were too talented. He never had to contend with playing with someone better than him because noone in his era was better than him. That being said, I think that it is a stretch that he would have chased off Magic or Bird because he had to get his. That's Kobe's gig.

Kobe is an unbelievably vainglorious douchebag. He more or less admitted that he is all about padding those stats.

[Thread]

Chamberlain took a lesser role with the Lakers --- Chamberlain was a consummate sportsman.

& Boston ended up burying Chamberlain & West deep in a fuckin' hole they never really climbed out of. Magic decided he wasn't going down that path and buried those fucks in the same hole they'd dug for him.

Same for Kobe. Once again Boston had dug a hole for a Laker. Tried to ward him off, scare him off, run him off. "We ain't comin' back to Los Angeles." They came back. Kobe dragged their ass back---then left 'em where he found 'em.

[The Batman]

& Boston ended up burying Chamberlain & West deep in a fuckin' hole they never really climbed out of. Magic decided he wasn't going down that path and buried those fucks in the same hole they'd dug for him.

Same for Kobe. Once again Boston had dug a hole for a Laker. Tried to ward him off, scare him off, run him off. "We ain't comin' back to Los Angeles." They came back. Kobe dragged their ass back---then left 'em where he found 'em.

You mean Gasol, Bynum, and Fisher? B/c we know what Kobe did Game 7.

[Thread]

B/c we know what Kobe did Game 7.

Yep. 2 suicide drives into the front of the rim in the 4th quarter and the shovel to Artest that broke Pierce's hole.

Just like that.

[ambchang]

Haha, he was so obsessed, he led his team to two first round exits (one with out shooting the 2nd half t make a point), and a season missing the playoffs.

His "obsession" didn't really become reality until the Grizzlies gifted him one of the best big man in the game at that point in Gasol. His obsession led him to chastised management for not trading Bynum for Kidd (turned out to be the right move), and blasting his crappy teammates (that would include Odom).

Shaq won the first three, shrewd moves by the front office won the rest.

[TDMVPDPOY]

him thinking his MJ, not sure which MJ his referring too...but his more closer to mj the moonwalker then mj the baller...

[Clipper Nation]

Kirby is a massively egotistical faggot, what else is new? :lol

[The Batman]

Haha, he was so obsessed, he led his team to two first round exits (one with out shooting the 2nd half t make a point), and a season missing the playoffs.

His "obsession" didn't really become reality until the Grizzlies gifted him one of the best big man in the game at that point in Gasol. His obsession led him to chastised management for not trading Bynum for Kidd (turned out to be the right move), and blasting his crappy teammates (that would include Odom).

Shaq won the first three, shrewd moves by the front office won the rest.
http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m6od4nxwDv1r6mpdgo1_500.gif

[diego]

what's most offensive to me is how everyone eats up the "shaq had a poor work ethic" angle. Shaq's poor work ethic was dominating the league. Would you rather have a hard working scrub? in 2004 shaq, poor work ethic and all, went to work against a pistons frontline that was stacked while kobe got his ass handed to him by a bunch of nobodies (2nd year prince, defensive ace rip hamilton and at that point journeyman billups).

kobe complains that he needed a stage to show all he had, but at the same time complains that shaq wasnt doing enough? If shaq had played on the lakers his entire career like kobe did, he would have had more rings, kobe never had to play on teams that have/had never won like orlando, miami, phoenix etc.

[Thread]

His obsession led him to chastised management for not trading Bynum for Kidd (turned out to be the right move)

That was at the old man's kid's (Jim) insistence. Led to 15 & 16 &:::

Kobe: 5

the tired old shit bag Duncan: 4

[Thread]

what's most offensive to me is how everyone eats up the "shaq had a poor work ethic" angle.

& when Daddy played there and was eating your lunch you cast him as down as well. Now, you're being dishonest, but:::

Kobe: 5

the tired old shit bag Duncan: 4

compells you.

Come ta Pappy.

Signed,

- Pappy

[Thread]

Kirby is a massively egotistical faggot, what else is new? :lol

Exactly. A functioning sociopath.

[Thread]

him thinking his MJ, not sure which MJ his referring too...but his more closer to mj the moonwalker then mj the baller...

:rolleyes

[Thread]

His "obsession" didn't really become reality until the Grizzlies gifted him one of the best big man in the game at that point in Gasol.

Gasol didn't win a single playoff game till Kobe took him in.

Let us proceed...

[Kool Bob Love]

Gasol didn't win a single playoff game till Kobe took him in.

Let us proceed...

Kobe cound't get out of the 1st round.

[The Batman]

Gasol didn't win a single playoff game till Kobe took him in.

Let us proceed...

Who was the second best player on those Grizzlies teams? Battier? Doesn't matter, you said yourself the only thing that matters is winning in June.

[TDMVPDPOY]

DUNNO how much more help this clown needs

04 4 future HOF on the team, he shoots them out of the finals
12 4 future hof again, this time wont make playoffs

overrated

[ambchang]

That was at the old man's kid's (Jim) insistence. Led to 15 & 16 &:::

Kobe: 5

the tired old shit bag Duncan: 4

You are right, Dr. Buss was the man, too bad his son had none of those instincts, should have passed the reigns to Mrs. KFC, then Kobe could win his sixth coattail ring and make it

Kobe: 6
Duncan: 4

the same way as

Horry: 7
Kobe 6

[ambchang]

Gasol didn't win a single playoff game till Kobe took him in.

Let us proceed...

And Kobe couldn't get out of the 1st round without Gasol either (or make the playoffs). I guess Gasol with his 1st round appearances > Kobe and his missed playoffs.

[The Batman]

Cul should look up Gasol's playoff stats pre-Kobe.

[Killakobe81]

Shaq did have a crappy work ethic, he was just that good and bigger and stronger than everyone else. Only fans in Orlando and Lakers Miami that watched him for 100 games a year and followed the team closely get it. Sure in playoffs and Finals he was a beast when not in foul trouble but his work ethic was mediocre. Great player though and he will have my applause tonight.

Despite leading all 3 to glory each franchise chose their perimeter star over Shaq ( tried to resign him, but marketed Penny over O'Neal

[Thread]

you said yourself the only thing that matters is winning in June.

Thank you.

[Thread]

Cul should look up Gasol's playoff stats pre-Kobe.

They're::: O & until Kobe took him in.

[Thread]

And Kobe couldn't get out of the 1st round without Gasol either (or make the playoffs). I guess Gasol with his 1st round appearances > Kobe and his missed playoffs.

Gasol didn't win a single playoff game till Kobe took him in.

[Thread]

You are right, Dr. Buss was the man, too bad his son had none of those instincts, should have passed the reigns to Mrs. KFC, then Kobe could win his sixth coattail ring and make it

Kobe: 6
Duncan: 4

the same way as

Horry: 7
Kobe 6

Without Jim Buss we're at 14 and I ain't here. And it's:

Duncan: 4

Kobe: 3

instead of:::

Kobe: 5

the tired old shit bag Duncan: 4

[Killakobe81]

Amb just showing his ass, "I don't hate Kobe" a la Rick James on Chapelle show

[TDMVPDPOY]

They're::: O & until Kobe took him in.

hold on a minute, kobe is 0 with no legit big man, so whats ur point clown?

[Thread]

hold on a minute, kobe is 0 with no legit big man, so whats ur point clown?

Here it is:::

Kobe: 5

the tired old shit bag Duncan: 4

[Clipper Nation]

Exactly. A functioning sociopath.
Cully with the goods.... sociopath is the perfect word for someone like Kirby, tbh....

[The Batman]

Here it is:::

Kobe: 5

the tired old shit bag Duncan: 4
And here is this. Kobe O and forever without a HOF big man.

[ambchang]

Gasol didn't win a single playoff game till Kobe took him in.

You already said that, and I was directly retorting it. Repeating your original point doesn't make it more right. Imposter.

[Kool Bob Love]

http://cdn.bleacherreport.net/images_root/slides/photos/000/395/681/shaq_kobe_jpg_display_image.jpg?1284525462

[ambchang]

Without Jim Buss we're at 14 and I ain't here. And it's:

Duncan: 4

Kobe: 3

instead of:::

Kobe: 5

the tired old shit bag Duncan: 4

Kobe coat-tailed Dr. Buss to those 2 rings. Jim Buss was just sucking on daddy's teat.

[ambchang]

Amb just showing his ass, "I don't hate Kobe" a la Rick James on Chapelle show

Now stating what actually transpired is hatred. Give me a break KK81.

At least I didn't call him selfish here, did I?

[Thread]

And here is this. Kobe O and forever without a HOF big man.

Fine. You have that one. I'm stickin' with:::

Kobe: 5

the tired old shit bag Duncan: 4

[Thread]

Kobe coat-tailed Dr. Buss to those 2 rings. Jim Buss was just sucking on daddy's teat.

& rescuing Bynum for #'s 15 & 16 &:::

Kobe: 5

the tired old shit bag Duncan: 4

[Thread]

http://cdn.bleacherreport.net/images_root/slides/photos/000/395/681/shaq_kobe_jpg_display_image.jpg?1284525462

& that's what pissed off Daddy. Kobe refusal to be his "Gilligan."

It happens.

Where we find the devil in the details is this:::

Kobe: 2

Daddy: 1

[Thread]

You already said that, and I was directly retorting it. Repeating your original point doesn't make it more right. Imposter.

Nonetheless, Gasol didn't win a single playoff game till Kobe took him in.

[Thread]

Cully with the goods.... sociopath is the perfect word for someone like Kirby, tbh....

I can identify with his pathology.

tee, hee.

[Kool Bob Love]

& that's what pissed off Daddy. Kobe refusal to be his "Gilligan."

It happens.

Where we find the devil in the details is this:::

Kobe: 2

Daddy: 1

Fine you take that Im sticking with::::

Finals MVP

shaq 3

kirby 2

[TDMVPDPOY]

snitch get stictches

[Thread]

Fine you take that Im sticking with::::

lmemulatedao!!!

[Thread]

snitch get stictches

And put the snitchee into retirement holding the dirty end of the 2-1 stick.

tee, hee.

[Killakobe81]

Now stating what actually transpired is hatred. Give me a break KK81.

At least I didn't call him selfish here, did I?

Come on Amb, some players just rub people the wrong way. It happens, and it's not like Kobe appears to be the most likeable guy so it's understandable. I did not even take issue with your arguments with Cully if you noticed, but you just bug me with the facade. You are a much better poster than most of the guys on here but you cant admit your bias against Kobe. It weakens you. Harlem for example, not as good a poster as you, especially lately freely admits he likes Lebron and dislikes Kobe the man takes a honest stand and I respect that. Jam on the other hand, is one of the better posters here period ... but admits a soft spot for Kobe but yet still takes him to task from time to time. He is respected here almost universally. By acting like you dont have a bias (We all do) especially when it's so visceral in your posts ... eats at your credibility. You already are a better poster than most on here, myself included. But you come off as a bit fake tbh ...

Just admit it Amb, it wont hurt you. You argue based on stats and "facts" most of the time anyway. I know you will excuse your posts on Kobe, saying you are speaking truth or trolling Cully but come on I think we have a grudging mutual respect ... let's keep it real. One old school fan to another, even if you want to PM me you can admit it. For example, I dont like Tony Parker his french accent or his cuckolding of his team-mate ways. It's one of the reasons I dont discuss him much because I know I do.:lol I despise Paul Pierce and I at one time did not like Larry Bird (mid 80's ). If you really want to have honest debate about ball players as a human you have to recognize the biases that shape your perception and perspective.

[whitemamba]

Come on Amb, some players just rub people the wrong way. It happens, and it's not like Kobe appears to be the most likeable guy so it's understandable. I did not even take issue with your arguments with Cully if you noticed, but you just bug me with the facade. You are a much better poster than most of the guys on here but you cant admit your bias against Kobe. It weakens you. Harlem for example, not as good a poster as you, especially lately freely admits he likes Lebron and dislikes Kobe the man takes a honest stand and I respect that. Jam on the other hand, is one of the better posters here period ... but admits a soft spot for Kobe but yet still takes him to task from time to time. He is respected here almost universally. By acting like you dont have a bias (We all do) especially when it's so visceral in your posts ... eats at your credibility. You already are a better poster than most on here, myself included. But you come off as a bit fake tbh ...

Just admit it Amb, it wont hurt you. You argue based on stats and "facts" most of the time anyway. I know you will excuse your posts on Kobe, saying you are speaking truth or trolling Cully but come on I think we have a grudging mutual respect ... let's keep it real. One old school fan to another, even if you want to PM me you can admit it. For example, I dont like Tony Parker his french accent or his cuckolding of his team-mate ways. It's one of the reasons I dont discuss him much because I know I do.:lol I despise Paul Pierce and I at one time did not like Larry Bird (mid 80's ). If you really want to have honest debate about ball players as a human you have to recognize the biases that shape your perception and perspective.

this is a great post.

I can understand why people hate him so much, for the amount of heart breaks he has caused since 2000 till now... but you have to respect his game, work ethic, and resume. like killa said, i also absolutley hate pierce, mother fuckin Bird, and that little teammate wife fucker, but i respect all their games, and what they can achieve on the basketball court, any poster here that discredits kobe is trolling imho, i could sit here and pull up highlight for daysssss, but it still wouldnt matter, they are blinded by butthurt for what the Mamba has achieved over his career, not surprising at all its like what the celtics did to the lakers in the past years.

[whitemamba]

and tbh, it sounds like kobe just trolls the media left and right, and these people bite on it like no other.

[Bill_Brasky]

:lmao missed the playoffs healthy and in his prime

[Thread]

and tbh, it sounds like kobe just trolls the media left and right, and these people bite on it like no other.

whites, with the goods.

'10 cut Media off from Kobe. And they're resentful. Anytime we beat Boston it's a no-win situation for Media. If they beat us they get two bites at the apple= they get to kiss Boston's ass and send our ass to the tree of woe. If we beat them, they won't send Boston to the tree of woe and they won't kiss our ass.

It's a phenomenon.

[The Batman]

and tbh, it sounds like kobe just trolls the media left and right, and these people bite on it like no other.

Kobe's gotta find a way to keep himself relevant since his team isn't.

[Thread]

Kobe's gotta find a way to keep himself relevant since his team isn't.

'10 made him. And he knows it. And you know what else, Bats?

You know it.

[ambchang]

Nonetheless, Gasol didn't win a single playoff game till Kobe took him in.

And Kobe couldn't win squat without the best frontline in the league.

[ambchang]

& rescuing Bynum for #'s 15 & 16 &:::

Kobe: 5

the tired old shit bag Duncan: 4

Just like

Horry: 7

Kobe: 5

[Thread]

And Kobe couldn't win squat without the best frontline in the league.

Thank Christ.

[Thread]

Just like

Horry: 7

Kobe: 5

Fine. You take that one. I'm stickin' with:::

Kobe: 5

the tired old shit bag Duncan: 4

[ambchang]

Come on Amb, some players just rub people the wrong way. It happens, and it's not like Kobe appears to be the most likeable guy so it's understandable. I did not even take issue with your arguments with Cully if you noticed, but you just bug me with the facade. You are a much better poster than most of the guys on here but you cant admit your bias against Kobe. It weakens you. Harlem for example, not as good a poster as you, especially lately freely admits he likes Lebron and dislikes Kobe the man takes a honest stand and I respect that. Jam on the other hand, is one of the better posters here period ... but admits a soft spot for Kobe but yet still takes him to task from time to time. He is respected here almost universally. By acting like you dont have a bias (We all do) especially when it's so visceral in your posts ... eats at your credibility. You already are a better poster than most on here, myself included. But you come off as a bit fake tbh ...

Just admit it Amb, it wont hurt you. You argue based on stats and "facts" most of the time anyway. I know you will excuse your posts on Kobe, saying you are speaking truth or trolling Cully but come on I think we have a grudging mutual respect ... let's keep it real. One old school fan to another, even if you want to PM me you can admit it. For example, I dont like Tony Parker his french accent or his cuckolding of his team-mate ways. It's one of the reasons I dont discuss him much because I know I do.:lol I despise Paul Pierce and I at one time did not like Larry Bird (mid 80's ). If you really want to have honest debate about ball players as a human you have to recognize the biases that shape your perception and perspective.

I will never admit to disliking Kobe, simply because I don't. I have said it multiple times, if Kobe, in his prime, or even his current incarnation, is willing to join the Spurs and play team ball, I would be ecstatic, but we both know that there is a snowball's chance in hell for scenario #1, and an even smaller chance for scenario #2, so that's pretty much a moot point.

I only dislike one person in the history of the league, and it's Karl Malone. I dislike him not only because he is one of the most overrated, dirtiest, and most hypocritical players in the league, but also because he is a pedophile. Kobe, as much as people love to make fun of him as a rapist, has not been proven to be a rapist, so I will give him the benefit of the doubt.

On the other hand, I dislike the constant overrating that Kobe gets, and it saddens me that, an apparently extremely knowledgeable fan like you, would fall for it as well (as in Kobe > Duncan and Shaq), so my role is to state these facts, and fight that constant barrage of media brainwash.

I think Kobe is a fine player, arguably the 2nd greatest SG of all time, likely one of the top 15 players of all time based on accomplishments, but he is not a top 15 player the league has ever seen. He was undoubtedly benefited by circumstances, and if you put in a player like Vince Carter, Allen Iverson or Tracy McGrady in his situation, they would have been at least close in terms of accomplishments, and if you put Kobe in their situations, he would have ended up with as many rings as those three combined.

[Thread]

I will never admit to disliking Kobe, simply because I don't. I have said it multiple times, if Kobe, in his prime, or even his current incarnation, is willing to join the Spurs and play team ball, I would be ecstatic, but we both know that there is a snowball's chance in hell for scenario #1, and an even smaller chance for scenario #2, so that's pretty much a moot point.

I only dislike one person in the history of the league, and it's Karl Malone. I dislike him not only because he is one of the most overrated, dirtiest, and most hypocritical players in the league, but also because he is a pedophile. Kobe, as much as people love to make fun of him as a rapist, has not been proven to be a rapist, so I will give him the benefit of the doubt.

On the other hand, I dislike the constant overrating that Kobe gets, and it saddens me that, an apparently extremely knowledgeable fan like you, would fall for it as well (as in Kobe > Duncan and Shaq), so my role is to state these facts, and fight that constant barrage of media brainwash.

I think Kobe is a fine player, arguably the 2nd greatest SG of all time, likely one of the top 15 players of all time based on accomplishments, but he is not a top 15 player the league has ever seen. He was undoubtedly benefited by circumstances, and if you put in a player like Vince Carter, Allen Iverson or Tracy McGrady in his situation, they would have been at least close in terms of accomplishments, and if you put Kobe in their situations, he would have ended up with as many rings as those three combined.

Boiled down:::

Kobe: 5

the tired old shit bag Duncan: 4

[ambchang]

this is a great post.

I can understand why people hate him so much, for the amount of heart breaks he has caused since 2000 till now... but you have to respect his game, work ethic, and resume. like killa said, i also absolutley hate pierce, mother fuckin Bird, and that little teammate wife fucker, but i respect all their games, and what they can achieve on the basketball court, any poster here that discredits kobe is trolling imho, i could sit here and pull up highlight for daysssss, but it still wouldnt matter, they are blinded by butthurt for what the Mamba has achieved over his career, not surprising at all its like what the celtics did to the lakers in the past years.


FYI, the Spurs made Kobe cried on national TV. Kobe never made any of the Spurs cried.

I guess you reversed the role of the butthurter and the butthurtee.

[UZER]

Come on Amb, some players just rub people the wrong way. It happens, and it's not like Kobe appears to be the most likeable guy so it's understandable. I did not even take issue with your arguments with Cully if you noticed, but you just bug me with the facade. You are a much better poster than most of the guys on here but you cant admit your bias against Kobe. It weakens you. Harlem for example, not as good a poster as you, especially lately freely admits he likes Lebron and dislikes Kobe the man takes a honest stand and I respect that. Jam on the other hand, is one of the better posters here period ... but admits a soft spot for Kobe but yet still takes him to task from time to time. He is respected here almost universally. By acting like you dont have a bias (We all do) especially when it's so visceral in your posts ... eats at your credibility. You already are a better poster than most on here, myself included. But you come off as a bit fake tbh ...

Just admit it Amb, it wont hurt you. You argue based on stats and "facts" most of the time anyway. I know you will excuse your posts on Kobe, saying you are speaking truth or trolling Cully but come on I think we have a grudging mutual respect ... let's keep it real. One old school fan to another, even if you want to PM me you can admit it. For example, I dont like Tony Parker his french accent or his cuckolding of his team-mate ways. It's one of the reasons I dont discuss him much because I know I do.:lol I despise Paul Pierce and I at one time did not like Larry Bird (mid 80's ). If you really want to have honest debate about ball players as a human you have to recognize the biases that shape your perception and perspective.

Awe...Internet love

[ambchang]

Fine. You take that one. I'm stickin' with:::

Kobe: 5

the tired old shit bag Duncan: 4
Just like

Horry: 7

Kobe: 5

[ambchang]

Boiled down:::

Kobe: 5

the tired old shit bag Duncan: 4

Did you read the post? Imposter? The REAL Cully would have actually read it.

[Thread]

Did you read the post? Imposter? The REAL Cully would have actually read it.

Of course I read it. & you dance beautifully.

[Thread]

Just like

Horry: 7

Kobe: 5

Fine. You take that one. I'm stickin' with:::

Kobe: 5

the tired old shit bag Duncan: 4

[mindcrime]

You mean Gasol, Bynum, and Fisher? B/c we know what Kobe did Game 7.

That series would have been done in 5 just like Pierce had said. Unfortunately for the C's, Ray Allan shot an astounding 0-13 in game 3. I guess he had a brain fart and forgot the ball has to go IN the basket for it to count.

[Thread]

That series would have been done in 5 just like Pierce had said. Unfortunately for the C's, Ray Allan shot an astounding 0-13 in game 3. I guess he had a brain fart and forgot the ball has to go IN the basket for it to count.

CWEBB walking away from Horry.

ha, ha.

[The Batman]

'10 made him. And he knows it. And you know what else, Bats?

You know it.

11 and 12 broke him. '13 too. And we can't forget 04 and the shitstain that is 08.

[ambchang]

Fine. You take that one. I'm stickin' with:::

Kobe: 5

the tired old shit bag Duncan: 4
Just like

Horry: 7

Kobe: 5

[ambchang]

Of course I read it. & you dance beautifully.

another giveaway you are an imposter. Cully check his grammar meticulously, never would he say "you dance beautifully". You imposter.

[Thread]

another giveaway you are an imposter. Cully check his grammar meticulously, never would he say "you dance beautifully". You imposter.

lmcontrollinao!!!

[Thread]

Just like

Horry: 7

Kobe: 5

Fine. You take that one. I'm stickin' with:::

Kobe: 5

the tired old shit bag Duncan: 4

[Thread]

11 and 12 broke him. '13 too. And we can't forget 04 and the shitstain that is 08.

No. '10 sealed him. & he knows it.

[Chris16]

He would've never won anything without Phil Jackson. He can brag about winning 2 as the man all he wants but the Zen Master was the coach when he won them.

He didn't win a thing with Mike Brown and he's struggling to make the playoffs with D'Antoni. :lol Shaq still was able to lead teams to near 60 wins numerous times even w/o Phil Jackson, something the "Black Mamba" has failed to do so far in his career.

Did I forget to mention mention that Shaq has 3 Finals MVPs while he has 2?

[The Batman]

No. '10 sealed him. & he knows it.

Nope. Not until he gets 2 more finals MVPs and not a second before.

[Thread]

Nope. Not until he gets 2 more finals MVPs and not a second before.

:rolleyes

[Thread]

He would've never won anything without Phil Jackson. He can brag about winning 2 as the man all he wants but the Zen Master was the coach when he won them.

He didn't win a thing with Mike Brown and he's struggling to make the playoffs with D'Antoni. :lol Shaq still was able to lead teams to near 60 wins numerous times even w/o Phil Jackson, something the "Black Mamba" has failed to do so far in his career.

Did I forget to mention mention that Shaq has 3 Finals MVPs while he has 2?

Boiled down:::

Kobe: 2

Daddy: 1

[Chris16]

Boiled down:::

Kobe: 2

Daddy: 1

3 FMVPs>>2 FMVPs

Mamba was the jealous one because Shaq was scoring the same points as him at a much better efficiency. :lol

[Thread]

3 FMVPs>>>2 FMVPs

I wouldn't hit a dog in the ass with 'em.

[Killakobe81]

I will never admit to disliking Kobe, simply because I don't. I have said it multiple times, if Kobe, in his prime, or even his current incarnation, is willing to join the Spurs and play team ball, I would be ecstatic, but we both know that there is a snowball's chance in hell for scenario #1, and an even smaller chance for scenario #2, so that's pretty much a moot point.

I only dislike one person in the history of the league, and it's Karl Malone. I dislike him not only because he is one of the most overrated, dirtiest, and most hypocritical players in the league, but also because he is a pedophile. Kobe, as much as people love to make fun of him as a rapist, has not been proven to be a rapist, so I will give him the benefit of the doubt.

On the other hand, I dislike the constant overrating that Kobe gets, and it saddens me that, an apparently extremely knowledgeable fan like you, would fall for it as well (as in Kobe > Duncan and Shaq), so my role is to state these facts, and fight that constant barrage of media brainwash.

I think Kobe is a fine player, arguably the 2nd greatest SG of all time, likely one of the top 15 players of all time based on accomplishments, but he is not a top 15 player the league has ever seen. He was undoubtedly benefited by circumstances, and if you put in a player like Vince Carter, Allen Iverson or Tracy McGrady in his situation, they would have been at least close in terms of accomplishments, and if you put Kobe in their situations, he would have ended up with as many rings as those three combined.

Come on, amb. Take Timmy away from Pop, David Manu and Tony put him on Minny ... what does he do? It's a silly argument. No one wins alone. Again we all have biases. Those that love MJ diminish Pippen, Horace, Rodman and Phil even though it took those guys playing key roles for MJ to ring. People diminish Kobe when lauding Shaq yet Shaq could not win with Penny or Eddie Jones as a sidekick and needed the very best from Kobe and especially Wade to win his 5 ... not to mention Zo, Horry, Fox Fish and Shaw. We are all guilty to some degree of allowing our bias to shape our arguments. I really dont see the take this one away argument having merit. So if KG a great defender in his own right ... it playin in SA or Karl MAlone do they have multiple rings? Maybe. Do they win 4 doubtful. And that is the point the best players ...they very best win when they have good support. Malone had a HOF coach and PG but wasnt good enough. Maybe with David and Manu and Horry he wins a couple doubt he wins 4 and that's the difference. The TMC, VC, AI Club is the same ish ...

[lebomb]

And Kobe couldn't win squat without the best frontline in the league.

Or being gifted half of famers. The Lakers never drafted SHIT to win it all. They always snagged an in their prime superstar to put next to Kobe. LMAO!!!! Just because its LA this kinda shit happens.

[Thread]

The Lakers never drafted SHIT to win it all.

Though Horry came in mighty handy for you as well. Sure, Wallace needed to walk away from him like CWEBB did for us, but, the result was the same.

tee, hee.

[Killakobe81]

Not to bash Shaq here on his jersey day ...but a case can be made the Del harris teams were better than the 2000 squad, talent wise.

1998 Shaq, Kobe, Eddie Jones, Van Exel, Elden Campbell, Fisher, Fox Horry
1999 Same squad minus Van Exel (And later Eddie Jones) but adding Rodman, Derek Harper and Glen Rice

Problem was as good as Shaq was Kobe was not ready yet and DEl was a smart but weak coach. Phil came in inspired Shaq to get in grreat shape and harnessed Kobe and the rest was history ... But he could not win without help ...no one can.

[Killakobe81]

Though Horry came in mighty handy for you as well. Sure, Wallace needed to walk away from him like CWEBB did for us, but, the result was the same.

tee, hee.

Great point. Did you guys draft Avery or Sean Elliott? What about Steve Kerr?

[BatManu20]

No one likes the scent of their own piss more than Kobe. The guy just wants people to love him and think he's the best, but the truth is, without Shaq, he doesn't win a single ring. He should be thanking him.

[Thread]

No one likes the scent of their own piss more than Kobe. The guy just wants people to love him and think he's the best, but the truth is, without Shaq, he doesn't win a single ring. He should be thanking him.

Instead he hunted Shaq down & humiliated him on broadcast television.

Kobe: 2

Daddy: 1

[whitemamba]

Kobe's gotta find a way to keep himself relevant since his team isn't.
:sleep


FYI, the Spurs made Kobe cried on national TV. Kobe never made any of the Spurs cried.

I guess you reversed the role of the butthurter and the butthurtee.

hmmmm....

Kobe 5

Social Security Spurs 4 :toast

[whitemamba]

Or being gifted half of famers. The Lakers never drafted SHIT to win it all. They always snagged an in their prime superstar to put next to Kobe. LMAO!!!! Just because its LA this kinda shit happens.

hey bro? u mad??

[ambchang]

Come on, amb. Take Timmy away from Pop, David Manu and Tony put him on Minny ... what does he do? It's a silly argument. No one wins alone. Again we all have biases. Those that love MJ diminish Pippen, Horace, Rodman and Phil even though it took those guys playing key roles for MJ to ring. People diminish Kobe when lauding Shaq yet Shaq could not win with Penny or Eddie Jones as a sidekick and needed the very best from Kobe and especially Wade to win his 5 ... not to mention Zo, Horry, Fox Fish and Shaw. We are all guilty to some degree of allowing our bias to shape our arguments. I really dont see the take this one away argument having merit. So if KG a great defender in his own right ... it playin in SA or Karl MAlone do they have multiple rings? Maybe. Do they win 4 doubtful. And that is the point the best players ...they very best win when they have good support. Malone had a HOF coach and PG but wasnt good enough. Maybe with David and Manu and Horry he wins a couple doubt he wins 4 and that's the difference. The TMC, VC, AI Club is the same ish ...

Put Timmy in Minny, and would have won it all in 2004 (barring injuries). Duncan is just easier to build around (as well as Shaq) than Kobe. Kobe had Shaq (these kinds of players are once every ten years talent) or one of the most unique/best frontlines in the league (while not being part of it). Yes, nobody wins alone, but top ten players, in their prime, simply do not miss the playoffs during the prime (I already explained the special circumstances of KAJ in an earlier post of mine).

I don't love MJ, and I think Pippen was very underrated throughout his career, and even more so after he retired. Could he have been the player he was without MJ and Jackson? Probably not, and probably not close, but what actually transpired should put him as one of the best SF in the history of the league, but he is better known as one of the best 2nd bananas of all time.

Shaq's time with Penny was shortlived, give them a few more years and a healthy Penny, and Shaq would have undoubtedly won at some point. And Eddie Jones was never one of the best SG in the league, nor anywhere close to a top 200 player of all time, so comparing him to Kobe is just laughable and insulting. The thing I will give Kobe is his amazing longevity, and that alone pushes him a notch above Carter, McGrady and Iverson, but that is like saying Karl Malone > Duncan and Shaq because he performed at a high level for a long time, and I just don't buy that.

Yes, there really hasn't been many players who won it all with a relatively weak supporting cast. Hakeem did it in 94, Duncan in 03, and Dirk in 11.

As for Garnett in SA, he would have won zero rings here. Garnett's problem is that he is not good enough of a #1 scoring option on a championship level team. Duncan was the entire Spurs offense in 03 (arguable in 99), a huge part in 05, and an important part in 07. Garnett just isn't good enough offensively to fill that void.

As for Malone, if Stockton wasn't enough for him, no one would have. David Robinson would have won a championship with a player of John Stockton's caliber. Hell, Robinson never even had a guard of the caliber of Jeff Malone or Jeff Hornecek, and he took his team to 55+ wins year after year.

At the end of the day, a player should be judged on how well he helps his team wins, and guess what, Kobe Bryant NEVER led the league in WS, WS/48, PER, OWS, DWS, even when he had championship level talent around him. The only time Kobe led the playoffs in WS was because Shaq played way less minutes in the 01 playoffs.

Duncan led the league in WS twice, OWS once, DWS five times, Defensive Rating three times (and possibly this year as well), as well as the playoffs as well. The numbers are even close when you put them side by side. In 03 playoffs, Duncan actually had an offensive rating of 116 and defensive rating of 92, that is a 24 point swing when he is on the floor. The best Kobe ever managed was a 17 point swing in 01, and the only reason is because he played most of the minutes with Shaq, who had a 17 point swing of his own. Kobe never had anything close to that in the rest of his career, yet Shaq had a 10 point swing in 00, 14 point swing in 02, and 13 point swing in 04. Kobe in those years either broke even, or was within +/- 2 point swings in those years.

Supporters of Kobe doesn't like numbers, because every single one just shows him to be inferior to Shaq, and every one of the proves that he was a clear side kick to Shaq during the early 00s. Funny thing is, that was actually common knowledge back in the early 00s as well. But some time in the late 00's, ESPN tries to prop up ratings, and start to rewrite history, devaluing Shaq and propping up Kobe as an equal, ignoring all the numbers, ignoring that Kobe + Shaq actually was only 3-2 vs. Duncan in their primes and could somehow say Kobe = Shaq > Duncan despite that record. I mean, really, if Kobe = Shaq, and both of them > Duncan, shouldn't it be a 5-0 record or at least a 4-1? How was Duncan supposed to defeat Shaq + Kobe, both superior players, when he had a hobbled Robinson, an out of control Ginobili, and a Parker who got destroyed by Stephon Marbury and needs Claxton to bail his ass as supporting players?

Kobe supporters ignore all points, and points to the 5 championship rings when comparing him to Duncan, somehow acting like Shaq didn't have anything to do with those rings despite being FMVP all three times. But when they talk about Bill Russell, they go all "but he had 8 HoF teammates :( :( :(" that suddenly, out of nowhere, teammates somehow matters again.

[ambchang]

Great point. Did you guys draft Avery or Sean Elliott? What about Steve Kerr?

The Spurs drafted Elliott, Manu, Parker as well.

Funny thing is, you just somehow realized (or thought) that the Spurs best non-drafted players were Avery, Elliott and Kerr, while for LA, it was Shaq, Gasol, Odom (well, Lakers, not Clippers), MWP, and Kobe.

I would say that is a pretty huge difference in talent, no?

[ambchang]

I have to steal somebody else's old idiotic shtick when I got my shit pushed in :(

[whitemamba]

^_^ you mad bro?

[dunkman]

Big man dependant, tbh.

[spurraider21]

If Kobe wasn't selfish the shaq- Kobe duo could have won more than 6

[ambchang]

^_^ you mad bro?

Not really, but what was your question based on? Was it because you can to rely on old cliches when you don't have anything meaningful to say?

[whitemamba]

Not really, but what was your question based on? Was it because you can to rely on old cliches when you don't have anything meaningful to say?

old cliches are the truth, dont :downspin: it

[ambchang]

old cliches are the truth, dont :downspin: it

Horry 7

Kobe 5

is also the truth

Cliches just don't say anything, that's all.

[whitemamba]

Horry 7

Kobe 5

is also the truth

Cliches just don't say anything, that's all.

sure i can live with that...

Derek Fisher 5

Tony Parker 4

[Chris16]

And the Lakers w/ Del Harris had more talent, but they couldn't defend the pick and roll. Phil Jackson knew how to defend against it.

[Thread]

If Kobe wasn't selfish the shaq- Kobe duo could have won more than 6

That's the prevailing CW (sells a lot of "newspapers,") but, saying it aloud and then actually doing so is world's apart.

[Thread]

Horry 7

Kobe 5

is also the truth

Cliches just don't say anything, that's all.

Fine. You take that one. I'm stickin' with:::

Kobe: 5

the tired old shit bag Duncan: 4

[Josepatches_]

No. Duncan was the leader of his team. Kobe was a sidekick.
So we have

Pippen 6
Kobe 5

[Thread]

No. Duncan was the leader of his team. Kobe was a sidekick.
So we have

Pippen 6
Kobe 5

Fine. You take that one. I'm stickin' with:::

Kobe: 5

the tired old shit bag Duncan: 4

[ambchang]

sure i can live with that...

Derek Fisher 5

Tony Parker 4

You do realize you just helped me make my point, right?

But I suppose you are just recycling some other people's shtick without really understanding what it means.

[whitemamba]

You do realize you just helped me make my point, right?

But I suppose you are just recycling some other people's shtick without really understanding what it means.


does that make you happy buddy?

[spurraider21]

That's the prevailing CW (sells a lot of "newspapers,") but, saying it aloud and then actually doing so is world's apart.
It took a Herculean series by Duncan to dethrone them and Kobe shooting his team out of the series in a historic manner in 04 to stop them from ringing. 06-09 lakers could have won with shaq. In the later years he'd fill the Bynum role

[Thread]

could have

It's pie-in-the-sky/magic tricks/defeatist. I don't do it.

It's my religion.

[ambchang]

does that make you happy buddy?

Not really. Kinda makes me sad, tbh.

I mean, I am talking to this guy/gal while s/he doesn't know what the hell s/he is talking about, nor the point of the discussion.

Felt like a waste of time.

[Killakobe81]

Put Timmy in Minny, and would have won it all in 2004 (barring injuries). Duncan is just easier to build around (as well as Shaq) than Kobe. Kobe had Shaq (these kinds of players are once every ten years talent) or one of the most unique/best frontlines in the league (while not being part of it). Yes, nobody wins alone, but top ten players, in their prime, simply do not miss the playoffs during the prime (I already explained the special circumstances of KAJ in an earlier post of mine).

I don't love MJ, and I think Pippen was very underrated throughout his career, and even more so after he retired. Could he have been the player he was without MJ and Jackson? Probably not, and probably not close, but what actually transpired should put him as one of the best SF in the history of the league, but he is better known as one of the best 2nd bananas of all time.

Shaq's time with Penny was shortlived, give them a few more years and a healthy Penny, and Shaq would have undoubtedly won at some point. And Eddie Jones was never one of the best SG in the league, nor anywhere close to a top 200 player of all time, so comparing him to Kobe is just laughable and insulting. The thing I will give Kobe is his amazing longevity, and that alone pushes him a notch above Carter, McGrady and Iverson, but that is like saying Karl Malone > Duncan and Shaq because he performed at a high level for a long time, and I just don't buy that.

Yes, there really hasn't been many players who won it all with a relatively weak supporting cast. Hakeem did it in 94, Duncan in 03, and Dirk in 11.

As for Garnett in SA, he would have won zero rings here. Garnett's problem is that he is not good enough of a #1 scoring option on a championship level team. Duncan was the entire Spurs offense in 03 (arguable in 99), a huge part in 05, and an important part in 07. Garnett just isn't good enough offensively to fill that void.

As for Malone, if Stockton wasn't enough for him, no one would have. David Robinson would have won a championship with a player of John Stockton's caliber. Hell, Robinson never even had a guard of the caliber of Jeff Malone or Jeff Hornecek, and he took his team to 55+ wins year after year.

At the end of the day, a player should be judged on how well he helps his team wins, and guess what, Kobe Bryant NEVER led the league in WS, WS/48, PER, OWS, DWS, even when he had championship level talent around him. The only time Kobe led the playoffs in WS was because Shaq played way less minutes in the 01 playoffs.

Duncan led the league in WS twice, OWS once, DWS five times, Defensive Rating three times (and possibly this year as well), as well as the playoffs as well. The numbers are even close when you put them side by side. In 03 playoffs, Duncan actually had an offensive rating of 116 and defensive rating of 92, that is a 24 point swing when he is on the floor. The best Kobe ever managed was a 17 point swing in 01, and the only reason is because he played most of the minutes with Shaq, who had a 17 point swing of his own. Kobe never had anything close to that in the rest of his career, yet Shaq had a 10 point swing in 00, 14 point swing in 02, and 13 point swing in 04. Kobe in those years either broke even, or was within +/- 2 point swings in those years.

Supporters of Kobe doesn't like numbers, because every single one just shows him to be inferior to Shaq, and every one of the proves that he was a clear side kick to Shaq during the early 00s. Funny thing is, that was actually common knowledge back in the early 00s as well. But some time in the late 00's, ESPN tries to prop up ratings, and start to rewrite history, devaluing Shaq and propping up Kobe as an equal, ignoring all the numbers, ignoring that Kobe + Shaq actually was only 3-2 vs. Duncan in their primes and could somehow say Kobe = Shaq > Duncan despite that record. I mean, really, if Kobe = Shaq, and both of them > Duncan, shouldn't it be a 5-0 record or at least a 4-1? How was Duncan supposed to defeat Shaq + Kobe, both superior players, when he had a hobbled Robinson, an out of control Ginobili, and a Parker who got destroyed by Stephon Marbury and needs Claxton to bail his ass as supporting players?

Kobe supporters ignore all points, and points to the 5 championship rings when comparing him to Duncan, somehow acting like Shaq didn't have anything to do with those rings despite being FMVP all three times. But when they talk about Bill Russell, they go all "but he had 8 HoF teammates :( :( :(" that suddenly, out of nowhere, teammates somehow matters again.

Great monologue, but look at how u just shat on Duncan's supporting cast, which supports my biased point I made earlier.
LOL the 2011,mavs are not weak poor example. That team got career years from Chandler and Barea and elite clutch play from Kidd and Jet, Marion was amazing on defense and Dirk put on an all time shooting exhibition that year. Outside of 3 peat Lakers those Mavs push any other championship team to at least 6 or 7 games and beat plenty of others since MJ retired ...Mavs underrated tbh as champs plus they beat LeBron in hos prime with a great supporting cast.

[ambchang]

Great monologue, but look at how u just shat on Duncan's supporting cast, which supports my biased point I made earlier.
LOL the 2011,mavs are not weak poor example. That team got career years from Chandler and Barea and elite clutch play from Kidd and Jet, Marion was amazing on defense and Dirk put on an all time shooting exhibition that year. Outside of 3 peat Lakers those Mavs push any other championship team to at least 6 or 7 games and beat plenty of others since MJ retired ...Mavs underrated tbh as champs plus they beat LeBron in hos prime with a great supporting cast.

I don't know about that, and I really wasn't trying to diminish the 03 Spurs, they were great role players, but they were certainly not Kobe, Pippen, McHale, Jabbar, Drexler, or even Dumars/Rodman level of support.

And I sort of disagree with the 11 Mavs, again, great bunch of role players, but they wouldn't have made much of a difference if they played for other teams.

[whitemamba]

Not really. Kinda makes me sad, tbh.

I mean, I am talking to this guy/gal while s/he doesn't know what the hell s/he is talking about, nor the point of the discussion.

Felt like a waste of time.

No one forced you to respond.

[FkLA]

The obsession this dude has with MJ is creepy as fuck tbh. I understand when he was a kid but hes a grown ass 35 yr old and still worried about being like Mike instead of just being Kome. At every chance he gets he emulates and compares himself to Mike, didnt he just make an MJ reference when he was a warrior and played through the pain against the Pacers for the 1st quarter ?

[Relevancy]

I haven't read the whole thread nor will I read it because I know it's filled with the usual suspects, you have the people that just hate him because they simply hate anything that's associated with success, then you have the opposing fans who hate him because he has gotten the best of them, then you have Laker fans that will defend him to death, which one to listen to? Nah, I think I'll just keep viewing him with rationality, him being one of the best off all-time and an all-time Laker is just a plus for me, you all can argue about his arrogance.

[Relevancy]

By the way Lakersarebesteva, what kind of Laker fan hates a player that has contributed in a major way to their teams success?

[spurraider21]

MJ isn't better than Kobe because 6>5 lol. Championships are a big part of ranking/valuing players, but it's not an end-all-be-all factor. So this whole horry 7 > Kobe 5 > Tim 4 shtick is pretty lame. Peyton manning > Troy aikman tbh.

[Thread]

MJ isn't better than Kobe because 6>5 lol. Championships are a big part of ranking/valuing players, but it's not an end-all-be-all factor. So this whole horry 7 > Kobe 5 > Tim 4 shtick is pretty lame. Peyton manning > Troy aikman tbh.

Yeah, yeah, I know. Then you won't mind:::

Kobe: 5

the tired old shit bag Duncan: 4

[Arcadian]

Put Timmy in Minny, and would have won it all in 2004 (barring injuries). Duncan is just easier to build around (as well as Shaq) than Kobe. Kobe had Shaq (these kinds of players are once every ten years talent) or one of the most unique/best frontlines in the league (while not being part of it). Yes, nobody wins alone, but top ten players, in their prime, simply do not miss the playoffs during the prime (I already explained the special circumstances of KAJ in an earlier post of mine).

I don't love MJ, and I think Pippen was very underrated throughout his career, and even more so after he retired. Could he have been the player he was without MJ and Jackson? Probably not, and probably not close, but what actually transpired should put him as one of the best SF in the history of the league, but he is better known as one of the best 2nd bananas of all time.

Shaq's time with Penny was shortlived, give them a few more years and a healthy Penny, and Shaq would have undoubtedly won at some point. And Eddie Jones was never one of the best SG in the league, nor anywhere close to a top 200 player of all time, so comparing him to Kobe is just laughable and insulting. The thing I will give Kobe is his amazing longevity, and that alone pushes him a notch above Carter, McGrady and Iverson, but that is like saying Karl Malone > Duncan and Shaq because he performed at a high level for a long time, and I just don't buy that.

Yes, there really hasn't been many players who won it all with a relatively weak supporting cast. Hakeem did it in 94, Duncan in 03, and Dirk in 11.

As for Garnett in SA, he would have won zero rings here. Garnett's problem is that he is not good enough of a #1 scoring option on a championship level team. Duncan was the entire Spurs offense in 03 (arguable in 99), a huge part in 05, and an important part in 07. Garnett just isn't good enough offensively to fill that void.

As for Malone, if Stockton wasn't enough for him, no one would have. David Robinson would have won a championship with a player of John Stockton's caliber. Hell, Robinson never even had a guard of the caliber of Jeff Malone or Jeff Hornecek, and he took his team to 55+ wins year after year.

At the end of the day, a player should be judged on how well he helps his team wins, and guess what, Kobe Bryant NEVER led the league in WS, WS/48, PER, OWS, DWS, even when he had championship level talent around him. The only time Kobe led the playoffs in WS was because Shaq played way less minutes in the 01 playoffs.

Duncan led the league in WS twice, OWS once, DWS five times, Defensive Rating three times (and possibly this year as well), as well as the playoffs as well. The numbers are even close when you put them side by side. In 03 playoffs, Duncan actually had an offensive rating of 116 and defensive rating of 92, that is a 24 point swing when he is on the floor. The best Kobe ever managed was a 17 point swing in 01, and the only reason is because he played most of the minutes with Shaq, who had a 17 point swing of his own. Kobe never had anything close to that in the rest of his career, yet Shaq had a 10 point swing in 00, 14 point swing in 02, and 13 point swing in 04. Kobe in those years either broke even, or was within +/- 2 point swings in those years.

Supporters of Kobe doesn't like numbers, because every single one just shows him to be inferior to Shaq, and every one of the proves that he was a clear side kick to Shaq during the early 00s. Funny thing is, that was actually common knowledge back in the early 00s as well. But some time in the late 00's, ESPN tries to prop up ratings, and start to rewrite history, devaluing Shaq and propping up Kobe as an equal, ignoring all the numbers, ignoring that Kobe + Shaq actually was only 3-2 vs. Duncan in their primes and could somehow say Kobe = Shaq > Duncan despite that record. I mean, really, if Kobe = Shaq, and both of them > Duncan, shouldn't it be a 5-0 record or at least a 4-1? How was Duncan supposed to defeat Shaq + Kobe, both superior players, when he had a hobbled Robinson, an out of control Ginobili, and a Parker who got destroyed by Stephon Marbury and needs Claxton to bail his ass as supporting players?

Kobe supporters ignore all points, and points to the 5 championship rings when comparing him to Duncan, somehow acting like Shaq didn't have anything to do with those rings despite being FMVP all three times. But when they talk about Bill Russell, they go all "but he had 8 HoF teammates :( :( :(" that suddenly, out of nowhere, teammates somehow matters again.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TAryFIuRxmQ

Damn, that was beautiful.

Duncan = Shaq > Kobe

[Thread]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TAryFIuRxmQ

Damn, that was beautiful.

Duncan = Shaq > Kobe

Boiled down:::

Kobe: 5

the tired old shit bag Duncan: 4

Daddy: 4

[dunkman]

True that, but big man dependant. Tbh.

[UZER]

Which is I always say.....if Shaq and Kobe are two of the top at their position of all time, and they played on the same team in their primes for three rings, how can Duncan, who has never played with someone on Shaq / Kobe level, but has has 4 rings going through Shaq and Kobe twice, not ever be lsited above them as an individual all time greatest?

This is revisionist, west coast media bias at its fullest.

[Thread]

Which is I always say.....if Shaq and Kobe are two of the top at their position of all time, and they played on the same team in their primes for three rings, how can Duncan, who has never played with someone on Shaq / Kobe level, but has has 4 rings going through Shaq and Kobe twice, not ever be lsited above them as an individual all time greatest?

This is revisionist, west coast media bias at its fullest.

You're looking at 5-4 Kobe over the tired old shit bag Duncan as a judgment from a 60 year old man who just fell on this shit by circumstance & watching film.

It don't get better than that.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

And Kobe couldn't get out of the 1st round without Gasol either (or make the playoffs). I guess Gasol with his 1st round appearances > Kobe and his missed playoffs.

Kobe between Shaq and Gasol is like Jabbar between Oscar and Magic: they showed how marginal they really were. At least Bryant wasn't exiting in the first round and missing the playoffs in the weakest era in NBA history, the ABA era. Kobe at least failed against top competition.

[Latarian Milton]

dude grew up thinking he was an elite so it's no surprise he still has such a huge ego even as an adult. dude is a great player but he would've probably achieved more if he knew his limits tbh.

[Thread]

dude grew up thinking he was an elite so it's no surprise he still has such a huge ego even as an adult. dude is a great player but he would've probably achieved more if he knew his limits tbh.

He lost 4 years of his prime's prime to the rape. That defined a great portion of his limits. It was:

A. devastating to him and his career.
B. worse even because he did to himself. He wasn't a victim. He'll never forgive himself for that.

[Killakobe81]

Which is I always say.....if Shaq and Kobe are two of the top at their position of all time, and they played on the same team in their primes for three rings, how can Duncan, who has never played with someone on Shaq / Kobe level, but has has 4 rings going through Shaq and Kobe twice, not ever be lsited above them as an individual all time greatest?

This is revisionist, west coast media bias at its fullest.

He is over Shaq but 2010 and the last 6 years changed the score 5-4

[mingus]

Offensively Kobe is basically on MJs level talent wise, but I don't remember MJ taking nearly as many ill advised shots as Kobe. He was way smarter than Kobe who goes into chuck mode too much.

[Killakobe81]

Offensively Kobe is basically on MJs level talent wise, but I don't remember MJ taking nearly as many ill advised shots as Kobe. He was way smarter than Kobe who goes into chuck mode too much.

Very fair assessment Kobe's shot selection is worse and his skills at making bad shots is also higher. But if you dont think MJ chucked you must not have watched a lot during the 80's and 90's but I do think he played smarter than Kobe. I think Kobe was always in a battle with his basketball IQ vs. his huge ego.

[Thread]

He is over Shaq but 2010 and the last 6 years changed the score 5-4

'10 settled a lot of shit & straightened Kobe out. He needed it so badly. It was freighted in utter disaster at default after the calamity of '08. The set up was perfect for an extreme fall. But, all those last second game winners he'd hit (7?) ended up being crucial as we ended up in Los Angeles instead of Boston. Then Perkins went down when we absolutely had to have him go down. It was a fucking miracle. I still can't believe it. They were fucking livid, from the Celtics to the Media. It still took Fisher to get Kobe to act like somebody, but, we came thru the other side, whole & upright. Kobe sacked Daddy. I went after Duncan with a shit bag and the rest is in the books.

[rayjayjohnson]

'10 settled a lot of shit & straightened Kobe out. He needed it so badly. It was freighted in utter disaster at default after the calamity of '08. The set up was perfect for an extreme fall. But, all those last second game winners he'd hit (7?) ended up being crucial as we ended up in Los Angeles instead of Boston. Then Perkins went down when we absolutely had to have him go down. It was a fucking miracle. I still can't believe it. They were fucking livid, from the Celtics to the Media. It still took Fisher to get Kobe to act like somebody, but, we came thru the other side, whole & upright. Kobe sacked Daddy. I went after Duncan with a shit bag and the rest is in the books.
Shaq: 4


Pau: 2


Kobe: 0

[Arnold Toht]

Shaq 3
MJ 6
Kobe 5
Timmy 4
Dirk 1
LBJ 1
Wade 1
Pau 0
KG 0.5

[koriwhat]

god this forum is hard to read once again with the neighborhood retard, cul/thread, running amuck once again. can't stand his lame ass schtick! good bye old pedo fool!

[mingus]

Very fair assessment Kobe's shot selection is worse and his skills at making bad shots is also higher. But if you dont think MJ chucked you must not have watched a lot during the 80's and 90's but I do think he played smarter than Kobe. I think Kobe was always in a battle with his basketball IQ vs. his huge ego.

Never said he didn't chuck, just not nearly as much. I didn't watch bball as much as I do now though so I could be wrong.

[Thread]

Shaq: 4


Pau: 2


Kobe: 0

Boiled down:::

Kobe: 2

Daddy: 1

[Thread]

god this forum is hard to read once again with the neighborhood retard, cul/thread, running amuck once again. can't stand his lame ass schtick! good bye old pedo fool!

Buh, bye.

LMVICTORIOUSAO!!!

[unforeseen]

Did you post this thread on LG?

[Killakobe81]

Never said he didn't chuck, just not nearly as much. I didn't watch bball as much as I do now though so I could be wrong.

I would argue it's closer than most people think (rate of chucking) but agree he did not do it as much. But MJ was just a greater scorer tbh ...Kobe is probably more versatile ...but MJ was one of the best ever to get the shot HE Wanted ...

[Kool Bob Love]

Boiled down:::

Kobe: 2

Daddy: 1

2


3

[ambchang]

No one forced you to respond.

I never said you did. I just find it sad that you had no idea what you are talking about, and I had no way of knowing until you post #102 in this thread.

You then asked me a question, and I responded like a courteous person would do.

See, I don't discriminate, and I find that through these conversations that you need help, so I am here to help, even though it saddens me to do so.

[ambchang]

Come to think of it, a better comparison would be Clyde and Hakeem. Hakeem and Shaq both were dominant during their peak, but needs a very particular team built around them, both were unstoppable on offense during their peak. Hakeem was obviously way better defensively, and after he was at peace with himself, much less childish than Shaq was.

Kobe in the early days were comparable to Clyde. Great scorers (Kobe better), fantastic rebounder and passer as a SG (Clyde slightly better at both), both were great athletes, neither were at their primes.

But guess what? Clyde and Hakeem won a championship together because they wanted to play for each other.

[Thread]

Come to think of it, a better comparison would be Clyde and Hakeem. Hakeem and Shaq both were dominant during their peak, but needs a very particular team built around them, both were unstoppable on offense during their peak. Hakeem was obviously way better defensively, and after he was at peace with himself, much less childish than Shaq was.

Kobe in the early days were comparable to Clyde. Great scorers (Kobe better), fantastic rebounder and passer as a SG (Clyde slightly better at both), both were great athletes, neither were at their primes.

But guess what? Clyde and Hakeem won a championship together because they wanted to play for each other.

Boiled down:::

Kobe: 5

the tired old shit bag Duncan: 4

[unforeseen]

Thread has his head up Kobe's ass due to the fact the Suns has not won anything in their existence.

[Thread]

Thread has his head up Kobe's ass due to the fact the Suns has not won anything in their existence.

I never defend my fandom.

It's my religion.

[UZER]

I never defend my fandom.

It's my religion.

Actually, you defend it 1000x a day with 5 - 4. Everytime anyone post anything, that's your reply. If not defending your fandom was really your religion, you wouldn't religiously post that reply all day.

hypocrite

[Thread]

Actually, you defend it 1000x a day with 5 - 4. Everytime anyone post anything, that's your reply. If not defending your fandom was really your religion, you wouldn't religiously post that reply all day.

hypocrite

Please.