Anyone else sick of Hero Ball?

[TheyCallMePro]

Remember when the last second shot was a set-up play for one of our role players to knock down a corner 3? Or when in the closing minutes of a close game we would continue to run the offense and not simply give the ball to Parker to throw up a contested jumper? I do. Watching the past several games I've realized that we now play like the Milwaukee Bucks at the end of games and simply give the ball to one of our stars to jack up a horrible shot that has very little chance of going in. Is Pop really drawing these 'plays' up out of timeouts? Or is it Parker's ego shining through here? Because I'm confused. As a Spurs fan I literally gape when we take a contested shot and the shot clock isn't close to zero. It's so rare during the course of games that it's literally shocking to see it happen. Except now it's happening all the time, and at the most crucial moments---the end of games. This team is built upon team basketball and it always has been. Our role players let us down last year late in the playoffs and I get that, but they're a crucial element to this team winning games in the playoffs. If they're forgotten at the end of games now, then what's going to happen to them in the playoffs? You think their confidence is going to be high? Hell no. Hero ball has got to stop now, or else the Spurs are done. This is not Spurs basketball.

[Thread]

It's been peaches the last 2 games.

tee, hee.

[Chris16]

Parker's "MVP candidate" status went down the drain these last 2 games. The Clippers and Spurs can both be stopped in the playoffs the exact same way. The only reason why the Spurs are better than the Clippers is because Del Negro is easy to outcoach.

[Sean Cagney]

Remember when the last second shot was a set-up play for one of our role players to knock down a corner 3? Or when in the closing minutes of a close game we would continue to run the offense and not simply give the ball to Parker to throw up a contested jumper? I do. Watching the past several games I've realized that we now play like the Milwaukee Bucks at the end of games and simply give the ball to one of our stars to jack up a horrible shot that has very little chance of going in. Is Pop really drawing these 'plays' up out of timeouts? Or is it Parker's ego shining through here? Because I'm confused. As a Spurs fan I literally gape when we take a contested shot and the shot clock isn't close to zero. It's so rare during the course of games that it's literally shocking to see it happen. Except now it's happening all the time, and at the most crucial moments---the end of games. This team is built upon team basketball and it always has been. Our role players let us down last year late in the playoffs and I get that, but they're a crucial element to this team winning games in the playoffs. If they're forgotten at the end of games now, then what's going to happen to them in the playoffs? You think their confidence is going to be high? Hell no. Hero ball has got to stop now, or else the Spurs are done. This is not Spurs basketball.I could not have said it better, similar threads I have read but this one worded a little different. The ISO is a joke and so easy stop, why do you think other teams have caught on and stop it so easy? It's predictable and doesn't work.

[hater]

Pop just don't give a fuck anymore. "just go ahead and do your best guys, oh and you wanna be challenged? Matt Bonner get the fuck in there!"

[superjames1992]

Yeah, lots of Hero Ball lately. It gets worse when the Hero (Gary Neal ) himself gets minutes.

[John B]

We take care of Thunder and it becomes a non-bearing game. That said, our D is shitty stopping last second shots. Last night there was not enough time at .6 sec left. But the last few games, except for a jumper I'd penetrate and try to draw a foul. But then again I'm not Pop.

[polandprzem]

The best Parker is Parker who does not think about being a hero. he just runs the show.
But when it is all about him, he fails to deliver.

That's disturbing cause it depends of the outcome.

[boutons_deux]

I think Tony's lauded, successful take-over heroics in 4th qtr and crunch time several games this year may have gone to his head, amplified by the ineffectiveness, if not absence, of Manu.

[Bruno]

Without Parker and his "hero ball", Spurs would be a lottery team. But yeah, whatever...

[Brunodf]

Without Parker and his "hero ball", Spurs would be a lottery team. But yeah, whatever...
:lol

[HI-FI]

Hopefully we can keep Parker and Neal off the court at the same time, as things devolve into Heroball pretty quickly.

[superjames1992]

I just love the term Hero Ball. It's awesome.

Even Charles Barkley uses it. :lol

Here's a discussion with Shane Battier about why coaches resort to Hero Ball at the end of games: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=txTlGm31NZw :lol

[ElNono]

I don't particularly mind Hero ball when you actually have a hero, tbh... that would still be Tim Duncan on this team...

[tmtcsc]

Believe it or not, the last play in the Grizzlies game was designed for Matt Bonner to do a catch and shoot. SJax instead threw it in to Parker.

TP was not at his best last night. He scored 25 pts but his court vision was bad. Perhaps he did it on purpose but he had Bonner wide open at least twice and didn't pass it to him. If you recall, Pop even told him late in the game "Matt was wide open" - you could read his lips.

Maybe Tony didn't feel comfortable giving him the ball. We all know Matt doesn't shoot well under pressure.

Gary f'd up at least twice that I remember. Once on D and the other on Offense. Took a pull up jumper on a break instead of passing to Jackson. Also left Conley to provide help defense inside. --> Really stupid move. Unfortunately, we don't have many shooters right now that can get off a shot under pressure. Neal is one of those guys. Not sure why Patty wasn't used to provide offense either.

[HI-FI]

I don't particularly mind Hero ball when you actually have a hero, tbh... that would still be Tim Duncan on this team...
+1. If he takes the final shot and it doesn't work, i'm okay with it. He's earned that honor long ago. Besides, Timmy will always hit the open guy if it's there, not like some Spurs who, after all these years, are still struggling with tunnel vision.

[letmk]

I don't mind Tony thinking about himself as the first scoring option. But the problem with the last few possessions is that he seemed NOT to have second option in mind at all (either Bonner who set a half-pick for him or other shooters in two corners).

Tony is a fast PG, but not an explosive guard. When the defense commits on not giving up layups and foul calls can only be called when there is obvious mis-direction jump/contact, Tony cannot just go one-on-one. If he can't drive close to his comfort "floater" area, I would rather him taking a clean jump-shooter after a good Tim/Tiago pick.

But when he didn't use a pick and didn't have other players in mind, he is not among top finishers. Tony's strength is his speed, variety and change-of-pace, and he should use those to his advantage. In terms of making real tough shot itself, let alone LeBron or Durant, even a Jamal Crawford type would be better than him.

[TheGoldStandard]

The ISO is not the players fault, that's Pop not calling a play and not barking out orders so that's on him. Parker is only doing what he thinks he can do within the moment of the game, he looks on the floor and see's people who are not consistent and thinks that since he leads the team it's his to lose. The biggest problem with this is that we've empowered Parker as our Prime Time Player and this is going to ultimately fail because any team that's lead by a PG is probably not going to win a championship. Every team that has been lead by a superstar PG usually can win a few series, win a crap load of games but ultimately don't have enough to get the job done in the finals. Unless you're Magic Johnson and can play multiple positions you need to have size, Defense and dependable scorers. We are 5 out of 10 on size, our defense is average over 4 quarters and we have non dependable shooters.

[Man In Black]

Without Parker and his "hero ball", Spurs would be a lottery team. But yeah, whatever...
Parker distributes the ball too, too much if he's playing Hero Ball. So I would say, he isn't.

[ElNono]

Even at this day and age, the only player that prevents this team from being a lottery team is Tim Duncan...

[hater]

Even at this day and age, the only player that prevents this team from being a lottery team is Tim Duncan...

:lmao ElNono trolling hard

looks like latest Manu injury really did a number on you :lol

[ElNono]

What does Manu has to do with what's discussed in this thread?

It's simply a fact that this team has a major hard time winning without Duncan on the floor, more so that when missing any other player. We've been fortunate that he hasn't missed that many games, especially after that knee scare.

[BackHome]

The same shit happened last year we do good till the end of the season and then we cking fall apart. Are we going to make it out of the first round this year?

[hater]

What does Manu has to do with what's discussed in this thread?

It's simply a fact that this team has a major hard time winning without Duncan on the floor, more so that when missing any other player. We've been fortunate that he hasn't missed that many games, especially after that knee scare.

your omission of Parker as another player whom without we'd be in the lottery means only
a) you are trolling hard
b) your Manu homerism has blinded you to the point you missed Parker's MVP year

[Spurs7794]

Believe it or not, the last play in the Grizzlies game was designed for Matt Bonner to do a catch and shoot. SJax instead threw it in to Parker.

TP was not at his best last night. He scored 25 pts but his court vision was bad. Perhaps he did it on purpose but he had Bonner wide open at least twice and didn't pass it to him. If you recall, Pop even told him late in the game "Matt was wide open" - you could read his lips.

Maybe Tony didn't feel comfortable giving him the ball. We all know Matt doesn't shoot well under pressure.



Tony has been doing that to Matt all season. I don't particularily blame him, especially because the night before against Miami, Matt was wide open for a three in the 4th and didn't shoot it. The Spurs ended up with a terrible possession and you could see Tony yelling at him. I think Tony has been fed up with Matt's anti clutchness.

With that said, his final two minutes last night were not enjoyable to watch.

[ElNono]

your omission of Parker as another player whom without we'd be in the lottery means only

Numbers simply back it up... Parker only major lead on Duncan is on assists (as expected)... (45% vs 17%)

http://stats.nba.com/teamPlayers.html?TeamID=1610612759&Season=2012-13&MeasureType=Usage&PerMode=Totals&sortField=PCT_PTS&sortOrder=DES

Everything else is pretty much evenly distributed: points, usage, fga, fgm...

Obviously Duncan leads Tony by a wide margin on blocks and rebounds... you know, that defensive improvement that's been the staple of this season.

Basically, Duncan matches TP on offensive production, usage, etc AND provides the defensive backbone.

Just facts here, no hyperbole.

[hater]

:lmao so because our PG doesn't lead the team in rebounds and blocks therefore he is not our MVP :lmao

:wow

[ElNono]

Keep pretending you didn't ignore 3/4 of that post and the stats that back it up... crofl

We can go back to opinion if facts make you uncomfortable, tbh :lol

[hater]

Keep pretending duncan can play 40 mpg :rolleyes

[ElNono]

Tony isn't playing 40mpg either, neither was he playing 40mpg last playoffs :lol

Duncan pretty much matches Parker scoring and usage even with reduced minutes... per the stats you didn't look at.

Let me know when facts start to get too embarrassing, and I'll stop, tbh

[Solid D]

Ray Allen dribbles to the left wing around a ball screen, draws double team, Bosh pops open at the top, Allen passes back to Chris Bosh at the top. Game winner.
Tony Parker dribbles to the left wing around a ball screen, draws double team, Bonner pops open at the top. Parker shoots contested bank shot. No good.

[eric365]

Ray Allen dribbles to the left wing around a ball screen, draws double team, Bosh pops open at the top, Allen passes back to Chris Bosh at the top. Game winner.
Tony Parker dribbles to the left wing around a ball screen, draws double team, Bonner pops open at the top. Parker shoots contested bank shot. No good.

So the good solution was Bonner shooting a high pressure 3pts attempts?
Seems like a no brainer!

[Hemotivo]

solid & nono are right

[boutons_deux]

So the good solution was Bonner shooting a high pressure 3pts attempts?
Seems like a no brainer!

Bosh 3G %age is 29% career

[DAF86]

Without Parker and his "hero ball", Spurs would be a lottery team. But yeah, whatever...

Spurs wouldn't be as good as they are without Parker but they wouldn't be a lottery team. They would still be a playoffs team, probably even a 50+ wins team.

[DAF86]

And lol at this thread, do you remember back in the good old days when everything in clutch situation was "4 down" every possesion or some years later Manu at the top of the key? Spurs coaching on clutch situations hasn't change much, tbh.

[SenorSpur]

Ray Allen dribbles to the left wing around a ball screen, draws double team, Bosh pops open at the top, Allen passes back to Chris Bosh at the top. Game winner.
Tony Parker dribbles to the left wing around a ball screen, draws double team, Bonner pops open at the top. Parker shoots contested bank shot. No good.

The old basketball adage is that an uncontested shot is better, and has a higher probability percentage, than a contested shot. Yet we're talking Bonner here. Even when he's open, all his shots are contested because of his mental midgetry. It's clear that Parker didn't make the right basketball play in that situation, yet I believe it's because he doesn't trust they guy in that situation. I can't say as I blame Parker, which is why Bonner shouldn't have been on the floor in that situation.

[therealtruth]

The old basketball adage is that an uncontested shot is better, and has a higher probability percentage, than a contested shot. Yet we're talking Bonner here. Even when he's open, all his shots are contested because of his mental midgetry. It's clear that Parker didn't make the right basketball play in that situation, yet I believe it's because he doesn't trust they guy in that situation. I can't say as I blame Parker, which is why Bonner shouldn't have been on the floor in that situation.

Agree. Pop's lack of being able to understand the psychological aspects of the game explains that. It explains why he's trotted Bonner out there for several seasons. He must obviously believe the percentages will eventually even out. There's a lot more that goes into whether a player can hit a shot than whether their open and their career 3pt percentage.

[EVAY]

Can anyone seriously imagine how this forum would have erupted if Tony had indeed passed out of the double team to a Bonner three point attempt? The odds are that Bonner would have missed, given his performance under pressure in the past. Then posters here would have had two responses: "What a terrible terrible decision by Parker to pass it to the one guy that everybody knows isn't going to deliver under pressure"; and/or "That chicken Tony couldn't take the heat of the double team and gave up the ball, even when he knew that he was the only one left on the floor with a good percentage shooting night".

So, unless the ball goes in and we win, Tony was going to take the blame. Such is the nature of fandom on this forum.

[superjames1992]

Can anyone seriously imagine how this forum would have erupted if Tony had indeed passed out of the double team to a Bonner three point attempt? The odds are that Bonner would have missed, given his performance under pressure in the past. Then posters here would have had two responses: "What a terrible terrible decision by Parker to pass it to the one guy that everybody knows isn't going to deliver under pressure"; and/or "That chicken Tony couldn't take the heat of the double team and gave up the ball, even when he knew that he was the only one left on the floor with a good percentage shooting night".

So, unless the ball goes in and we win, Tony was going to take the blame. Such is the nature of fandom on this forum.
Doesn't matter. It was the correct basketball play to make. You CoTers just won't quit, will you?

I'd rather have a shaky Bonner shoot a wide open three than have Parker fade away with a man in his face (with almost NO chance of going in).

[letmk]

Can anyone seriously imagine how this forum would have erupted if Tony had indeed passed out of the double team to a Bonner three point attempt? The odds are that Bonner would have missed, given his performance under pressure in the past. Then posters here would have had two responses: "What a terrible terrible decision by Parker to pass it to the one guy that everybody knows isn't going to deliver under pressure"; and/or "That chicken Tony couldn't take the heat of the double team and gave up the ball, even when he knew that he was the only one left on the floor with a good percentage shooting night".

So, unless the ball goes in and we win, Tony was going to take the blame. Such is the nature of fandom on this forum.

Nothing against Tony at all. But if LeBron can pass, so does Tony.

[Cane]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0bvi4ojvgIM

:downspin:

[letmk]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0bvi4ojvgIM

:downspin:

That's why I said Tony and the team are in their best when Tony keeps the option open.