Good/Bad from Spurs/Thunder..

[HarlemHeat37]

Bad
- Splitter was absolutely horrible, a complete non-factor..he played well vs. OKC at home, but he struggled against their length and help activity in the paint tonight..

The playoffs will be the true test, but games like we watched tonight don't inspire confidence..I'm a big Splitter fan and he may be the X-factor for the Spurs in the playoffs, performances of tonight's nature are unacceptable..

- Danny Green continues to struggle in Methamphetamine Arena..he's 3-9 from 3 @ OKC this year, which is a small sample size, but it's compounded to his terrible series vs. OKC in last year's playoffs..

He seems to struggle against OKC's pressure and aggression..his decision making was poor and his defense was hit/miss IMO..his last turnover was symbolic of Green's struggles against OKC..

- OKC won by double-digits, despite losing the FT battle..this will rarely occur, as they are arguably the most ref-coddled team in NBA history..

- OKC's offense has more explosive quick bursts than any team in the NBA IMO..that was one of the differences in the game..every time the Spurs cut the deficit, OKC went on a quick 6+ to 0 run and blew the game open..

The Spurs erratic ball-control and decision making killed them against OKC's quick offensive bursts..

Good
- Spurs have been close to OKC in most of the head-to-head minutes this season, despite playing without either Parker or Ginobili for most of those minutes..

If either Ginobili or Parker can play at a high level against them in a potential series, the Spurs win IMO..

- Kawhi Leonard is not afraid of OKC..he had a good performance in the previous game and he was dominant in tonight's game..

This could play a key role in a potential matchup if Parker struggles against Thabo again, and if Manu can't find his form..

- OKC's bench sucks..they lack the element they had with Harden..Kevin Martin is inconsistent and soft, and he's their only reliable scorer of the bench..

- Fisher will not replicate tonight's performance..sure, he's a Spurs killer, but he's a terrible player, tbh..he could have 1 big game in a series, but he can't do it for an entire series..if OKC is relying on Fisher to play a key bench role, that's virtually always an advantage for the opposing team, tbh..

- Westbrook does not play great against the Spurs..he has good stretches against the Spurs, but he cannot dominate for an entire game..his erratic shot selection and decision making has been a huge advantage for the Spurs the past 2 years, and it will continue to be an advantage..

The Thunder don't have Harden anymore, they rely on 2 guys for the majority of their offense, and Westbrook does not play at a top-10 level against the Spurs..

[DesignatedT]

Add in a healthy Tony and Manu to this Spurs team and I don't see them losing a series to this OKC team. HCA or not. OKC is not the same without Harden. The Spurs can actually get stops against this team now.

Of course adding in a healthy Tony and Manu might be too much to ask. I guess time will tell.

[TrainOfThought5]

Add in a healthy Tony and Manu to this Spurs team and I don't see them losing a series to this OKC team. HCA or not. OKC is not the same without Harden. The Spurs can actually get stops against this team now.

Of course adding in a healthy Tony and Manu might be too much to ask. I guess time will tell.

Im not so sure that Kawhi cant shoulder the load THIS season. relegating Parker back to his prime role player status.

[T Park]

The Thunder's bench I agree is noticeably short. It took Fisher out of his mind to win this game. Shut down Tony for the rest of the RS, let him get good.

If Parker had been close to 90% tonight the Spurs win this game. Leonard's defense on Durant is 180 degrees from what it was in June. Stays with him much better, challenges alot more shots. Love the Spurs chances if they can get Manu and parker close to 90%.

[SenorSpur]

The Thunder are an underrated defensive team - at least when they play the Spurs. The Thunder excel at taking away what the Spurs do best and forcing them into terrible offensive possessions. Most times, the Spurs struggle mightily just getting off decent shots because the Thunder are good at bottling up Parker and keeping the Spurs from penetrating into the lane. They are also good at limiting the Spurs to one shot. It just seems the Spurs tend to struggle to score more against the Thunder versus any other opponent.

This certainly not the say the Spurs can't beat this team, but they're going to have to have good health, consistent bench contributions and be firing on all cylinders to do it.

[SanDiegoSpursFan]

I think another good thing is that we didn't need 3s to be competitive with them. We shot terribly and our defense was able to keep us in it.

[Splits]

Another in the "good" column: Kawhi played 41:43 tonight. In a series against the Trefs he'll play 44+

[HarlemHeat37]

I think another good thing is that we didn't need 3s to be competitive with them. We shot terribly and our defense was able to keep us in it.

Good point, tbh..

[Robz4000]

Tbh, Danny Green wasn't too bad. I think fatigue played a bit of a factor. Splitter's play is worrisome, but again I think he was tired.

Spurs won't beat OKC as the #2 seed unless both Tony and Manu are playing at a high level. Their bench isn't as scary, but they always seem to have someone go off for 16 or 17 points each night. Considering how random scrubs like to go HAM against this team every other night, that is worrisome. Would be nice to have Manu there to consistently counter that. We all know it and called it before, but Westbrook will be OKC's undoing this year, and it might even happen before the WCF.

[Splits]

Leonard's defense on Durant is 180 degrees from what it was in June. Stays with him much better, challenges alot more shots.

Not only his defense, but Durant usually checks him going the other way and can't coast. Kawhi makes him play defense.

[spurs10]

Add in a healthy Tony and Manu to this Spurs team and I don't see them losing a series to this OKC team. HCA or not. OKC is not the same without Harden. The Spurs can actually get stops against this team now.

Of course adding in a healthy Tony and Manu might be too much to ask. I guess time will tell.
:toast

[Doctor J]

I agree with every single point made tbh.

[SenorSpur]

Some more bad:

Offensive rebounds: The Spurs continue to give up waaaay too many offensive rebounds to this team. They're already at a disadvantage athletically, however they need to make a conscious effort to fundamentally box out the OKC bigs and keep them off the offensive glass.

Defending the 3-pt line: The Spurs are supposedly one of the better teams in the NBA at defending the 3-ball. It didn't look like it tonight, as Fisher and Durant got pretty much what they wanted from behind the arc. This is not an issue that just started tonight. The Spurs have been slipping in this area ever since the all-star break, it seems.

[T Park]

Not only his defense, but Durant usually checks him going the other way and can't coast. Kawhi makes him play defense.

Exactly. He was literally chasing Leonard around the court and that during a 7 game series takes its toll.

[T Park]

Some more bad:

Offensive rebounds: The Spurs continue to give up waaaay too many offensive rebounds to this team. They're already at a disadvantage athletically, however they need to make a conscious effort to fundamentally box out the OKC bigs and keep them off the offensive glass.

Defending the 3-pt line: The Spurs are supposedly one of the better teams in the NBA at defending the 3-ball. It didn't look like it tonight, as Fisher and Durant got pretty much what they wanted from behind the arc. This is not an issue that just started tonight. The Spurs have been slipping in this area ever since the all-star break, it seems.

The offensive rebounds were long ones where Ginobili and Parker excel at. Get them back that gets cleaned up.

Also, 4th game in 5 nights, OKC has rested since saturday, that has to be taken into context imo.

[Splits]

Offensive rebounds: The Spurs continue to give up waaaay too many offensive rebounds to this team. They're already at a disadvantage athletically, however they need to make a conscious effort to fundamentally box out the OKC bigs and keep them off the offensive glass.


Normally? Yes. Tonight? No. We had more offensive boards than they did and at least 4 of their 9 were off of massive 3pt bricks from Westchuck off the back iron bouncing out to half court. Ball just didn't bounce our way tonight.

[spurraider21]

Durant played 45 frickin minutes. Damn these young horses

[SenorSpur]

The offensive rebounds were long ones where Ginobili and Parker excel at. Get them back that gets cleaned up.

Also, 4th game in 5 nights, OKC has rested since saturday, that has to be taken into context imo.

Absolutely and good points. Meanwhile, the Thunder had been off for four days.

[Splits]

Did I mention?

320018835501625344

[Thread]

Good: Poop didn't wear those fuckin' diareah colored slacks tonite.

[ShoogarBear]

Playing Green and (after tonight) Splitter against the Thunder in a 7-game series still does not give me warm fuzzies. Other than health in the big 3, we're going to need Jax and Neal to play significant minutes.

[Robz4000]

Normally? Yes. Tonight? No. We had more offensive boards than they did and at least 4 of their 9 were off of massive 3pt bricks from Westchuck off the back iron bouncing out to half court. Ball just didn't bounce our way tonight.

They had 3 in one possession, and they ended up getting nothing out of it anyway.

[Floyd Pacquiao]

Don't forget the 3 fastbreak fails...

[DapDaGenius]

I wish Green was more consistent.

[HarlemHeat37]

Don't forget the 3 fastbreak fails...

Ya, that was horrible:lol..

[SpurPadre]

Add in a healthy Tony and Manu to this Spurs team and I don't see them losing a series to this OKC team. HCA or not. OKC is not the same without Harden. The Spurs can actually get stops against this team now.

Of course adding in a healthy Tony and Manu might be too much to ask. I guess time will tell.

We can't forget the Sefolosha on TP factor, though and TP hasn't showed a counter to that strategy all year.

[Richie]

People are being way too harsh on Green. The guy is what he is, a knockdown shooter from 3 and an above average defender. Put him in a backcourt with De Colo and ask him to create like we did in the 4th tonight and he will look bad. 3-9 from 3 is a useless statistic, if he hits his next shot in OKC he's at 40% which is above the league average.

I'd love to see a breakdown on what, if anything, OKC did different tonight against Splitter. From 21/10 on 81% to 4/6 on 14%. Was it just a bad game or did OKC change it up?

[Pasta Batman]

We can't forget the Sefolosha on TP factor, though and TP hasn't showed a counter to that strategy all year.

But it looks like Kawhi will have the ball in his hands more. Thabo can't be everything. Making Duarant work harder is going to be a good thing. Only time will tell, but a key to helping Parker shake Thabo is having other guys with the ball in their hands who are capable.

[SpurPadre]

But it looks like Kawhi will have the ball in his hands more. Thabo can't be everything. Making Duarant work harder is going to be a good thing. Only time will tell, but a key to helping Parker shake Thabo is having other guys with the ball in their hands who are capable.

Ok but in order to do that, then Manu must start over Green in a series against OKC. Green is definitely not ready step up against a team of this caliber.

[SpurPadre]

People are being way too harsh on Green. The guy is what he is, a knockdown shooter from 3 and an above average defender. Put him in a backcourt with De Colo and ask him to create like we did in the 4th tonight and he will look bad. 3-9 from 3 is a useless statistic, if he hits his next shot in OKC he's at 40% which is above the league average.

I'd love to see a breakdown on what, if anything, OKC did different tonight against Splitter. From 21/10 on 81% to 4/6 on 14%. Was it just a bad game or did OKC change it up?

After that pathetic inbounds pass from Green, he deserves to be torn a new asshole. I didn't want to look at his face after that one and neither did Pop, who promptly yanked him for several minutes after that.

[HI-FI]

fair and balanced post from Harlem.

OKC doesn't scare me like previously. I think the Heat beatdown and losing Harden has stolen some of their thunder (bad pun). They, like their ice skating fans, realize that they depend on a lot on refs to win. Even tonight, they didn't seem as cocky as before. Spurs seemed to be playing very well, despite injuries and key contributors going cold.

I'm not saying we will dominate them, but if healthy, I think we can push their shit in, enough to create real doubt.

[SpurPadre]

fair and balanced post from Harlem.

OKC doesn't scare me like previously. I think the Heat beatdown and losing Harden has stolen some of their thunder (bad pun). They, like their ice skating fans, realize that they depend on a lot on refs to win. Even tonight, they didn't seem as cocky as before. Spurs seemed to be playing very well, without most of our most talented guys.

I'm not saying we will dominate them, but if healthy, I think we can push their shit in.

Not without HCA we won't, tbh.

[Pasta Batman]

Ok but in order to do that, then Manu must start over Green in a series against OKC. Green is definitely not ready step up against a team of this caliber.

It's less about who starts and more about the total minutes played. Green won't get all those minutes, but there are times when he's useful. That said, I'd rather Pop try and give him those situations. This is what the season is for. Learning.

The team was lacking 3 players in this game basically. Parker, Gino, Jackson. They were also in the 4th in 5 nights. They did pretty well for all those factors. Also, there is nothing stopping Pop from running Nando/Parker together with Parker as an off guard, which would take away some stuff from Thabo if he gets him run off screens.

Pop has more options this season with Nando getting better and of course Kawhi. The key to Green is limiting his ball handling, which will definitely lessen if the team is fully around.

[Pasta Batman]

Not without HCA we won't, tbh.

There are no guarantees either way. It just takes being hot at the right time, if healthy.

[SenorSpur]

It's less about who starts and more about the total minutes played. Green won't get all those minutes, but there are times when he's useful. That said, I'd rather Pop try and give him those situations. This is what the season is for. Learning.

The team was lacking 3 players in this game basically. Parker, Gino, Jackson. They were also in the 4th in 5 nights. They did pretty well for all those factors. Also, there is nothing stopping Pop from running Nando/Parker together with Parker as an off guard, which would take away some stuff from Thabo if he gets him run off screens.

Pop has more options this season with Nando getting better and of course Kawhi. The key to Green is limiting his ball handling, which will definitely lessen if the team is fully around.

Green always scares the crap out of me whenever he tries that little trick of driving the lane and then attempting to put the ball behind his back in traffic. After all, he's already one of the worse ball-handlers on the team to start with, then he tries that crap while surrounded by defenders. It's just scary.

[jjktkk]

- OKC won by double-digits, despite losing the FT battle..this will rarely occur, as they are arguably the most ref-coddled team in NBA history..

Telling stat. But looking ahead at a potentiall playoff matchup against OKC, this is also troubling, given how OKC normally gets those calls.

[jag]

Tiago's problem is that he puts up shots in the paint and is surprised by contact. Any contact gets him out of rhythm and he puts up a rushed/forced shot expecting a call. He's at his best when he goes to his move, or attacks the basket, expecting contact. He's not the only one who struggles with this though. Tim sometimes gets into a habit of expecting calls and starts putting up garbage shots when he feels contact. The difference with Tim is he knows how to snap himself out of that way of thinking after a few possessions. Tiago seems to bring only one particular mindset to each game. He either shows up with a soft mindset, looking for calls, or he shows up ready to bang in the paint. Unlike Tim, he isn't able to adjust.

I think he's still very much in the process of developing his game and adjusting to NBA-level talent. He's not a finished product. And I think his ability to adjust and adapt over the course of a game will come with experience. That being said, I'm getting tired of watching him lose focus because of contact and then put up bad shots expecting calls. Especially when he's shown he has the skill around the rim to finish with contact.

[Seventyniner]

Good thread, and good observations, Harlem. :toast

I'll add some of my own observations.



About the Spurs' defensive rebounding, it actually was above average. The Thunder had 9 ORB and the Spurs had 33 DRB, giving the Thunder a ORB% of 9/42 = 21.4% (against their average of 26.5%) and the Spurs a DRB% of 33/42 = 78.6% (against their average of 74.8%).
Green going 3-9 from three isn't all that bad. 9 points on 9 shots isn't stellar, but it definitely isn't bad.
Last night is the closest to a playoff-like rotation I've seen in a while. Give Neal's 28 min to Manu, most of De Colo's 23 min to Parker, a few of Diaw's min to Splitter, and carve out 8-10 min for Jackson, and that's a playoff rotation. To sum up: Duncan 36, Splitter 33, Diaw 25, Jackson 10, Leonard 40, Green 24, Ginobili 28, Parker 36, De Colo 8 looks like a possible rotation, and last night wasn't far from it.
The Thunder are very underrated on D by this board. The Spurs are 3rd in DRtg, sure, but the Thunder are 5th.
The Spurs did a good job on Durant. Durant used 28 possessions to get his 25 points, while Westbrook used 27 for his 27 points.
Overall, the Spurs were on their 4th game in 5 nights with Manu out, Jackson out, and Parker hobbled, while the Thunder are always healthy and had 4 days of rest. It was a scheduled loss if there ever was one (like the Thunder's recent loss to the Spurs in San Antonio), so I can't be too disappointed.

[Slippy]

The biggest "bad" facing the Spurs currently is ball movement from their guards. The high assisting offense has taken a dive. The likes of Neal , Green , Jax and Kawai who are handling the ball more, arn't good enough to see or make the pass needed to get their offense flowing. That include making second or third pass for a better shot. It gets tougher for the team because they aren't handling high pressure defense on the dribble well meaning stupid turnovers. If you wanted proof. Look at the most basic offense run in basketball . They can't even get a fast break right. It's a glaring weakness.

Offcourse having Manu out and a banged up Tony is big reason on why. The Spurs are not only missing their chief playmakers but also their best passers and ball handlers.

The "good" is for Nando and Kawai its part of their learning curve. You would expect them to get better at dealing with it going into the play-offs.

[spurraider21]

here's the good from the Thunder game


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mNSkGGexxPE

[thunderup]

here's the good from the Thunder game


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mNSkGGexxPE
Yall have a promising player. :tu

[spurraider21]

Yall have a promising player. :tu
and the kid is just 21. for the past couple of seasons i was always depressed when I thought of the Spurs post-Duncan. we had ridiculously luck with the robinson-duncan transition. the odds of landing yet another top 10 all time big man is laughable, but at least this guy can develop into something. he's gotta be surrounded by parts though, he's not going to be able to carry a team like 03 Duncan did

[Southwest Texas Fan]

and the kid is just 21. for the past couple of seasons i was always depressed when I thought of the Spurs post-Duncan. we had ridiculously luck with the robinson-duncan transition. the odds of landing yet another top 10 all time big man is laughable, but at least this guy can develop into something. he's gotta be surrounded by parts though, he's not going to be able to carry a team like 03 Duncan did

Only time will tell what Kawhi will turn into. So far everything looks good and though the season is far from over, part of me is looking forward to Kawhi's third year.