where does ginobili rank

[ICE3000]

among the best "wing" men in the legue

is he in the top 5? who are the players that you would trade him for

[TNT21]

I wouldn't trade him for a ham samich if I was homeless.

[Leetonidas]

I wouldn't trade him for anyone.

[midgetonadonkey]

I'd only trade in for a 28 year old Jordan...and a fat ganja spliff

[Horry For 3!]

No way I would trade Manu.

[BillsCarnage]

Manu ranks as one of the greatest floppers of all time..

[midgetonadonkey]

Manu ranks as one of the greatest floppers of all time..

Whatever it take to get to the line for an easy 2.

[Manu20]

In my opinion he is a top ten shooting guard. If he could play 35-38 minutes a game he would be top five.

[Rick Von Braun]

I don't know where Manu ranks, but consider the following:

How many guys in the league could average 21pts / 6rbs / 4ast in only 34 min/g with an efficiency of 51 FG% / 44 3P% / 80 FT% and, perhaps more importantly, taking only 12.5 FGA/g in 23 playoff games of a championship run?

I would say very, very few...

[FoxMulder]

Manu ranks as one of the greatest floppers of all time..

Still crying baby!?

Let me see... nobody flops on your team?
Ouch! your team trade Q-Richardson who is also a flopper
Nash isn´t a flopper don´t you?
Amare is a Flopper?
Nope he do push-ups...and hit Manu with his elbows.

Next year... maybe...

[picnroll]

Manu ranks as one of the greatest floppers of all time..
... and light years ahead of Joe Johnson who is about to cost the Suns considerably more than Manu. :smokin

[caspian]

I don't know where Manu ranks, but consider the following:

How many guys in the league could average 21pts / 6rbs / 4ast in only 34 min/g with an efficiency of 51 FG% / 44 3P% / 80 FT% and, perhaps more importantly, taking only 12.5 FGA/g in 23 playoff games of a championship run?

I would say very, very few...

I'd say no one...unless they had Duncan on their team also...

And FWIW, Manu does not flop. He's a high-octane two-guard and, yes, he's white...sorry haters.

[CalsonicKansei]

"Hell Naw!", -(Chris Tucker)

[2centsworth]

He is the top all-around guard in the league. A young Jason Kidd was better except without the 3pt shooting.

Kobe is the only other where you have a strong argument, but no one knows if Kobe can be a team player or not.

[TDMVPDPOY]

you want garlic sauce with that?

[FoxMulder]

Tony Parker also plays with TD and does not have even close numbers...

[ducks]

above duncan
ask agrentine

[nkdlunch]

ask agrentine

who's that???


Manu is top 10. Untradeable. He's not leaving this town until he gets another one.

[FoxMulder]

above duncan
ask agrentine

I´m argentinian and I´m not ranking Ginobili above Duncan.
Ginobili is to Duncan
like McHale was to Larry
like Worthy was to Magic
like Pippen was to Jordan

[WalterBenitez]

above duncan
ask agrentine

bad water in the swimming pool bro!!?? :smokin

we do love Manu, but doesnt mean we are stupid :drunk

[2centsworth]

Kobe>LeBron>Manu, However I wouldnt trade Manu for Kobe. I would for LeBron. I feel that those three are the best three guards in the league by far. I would not trade Manu for TMAC.
I think Lebron is a SF though he plays just about every position including PG.

Kobe may not be better than Manu, because Kobe's defense stinks (very overated).

[King]

Dwyane Wade, Lebron James, Kobe Bryant, Tracy McGrady, Ray Allen are all players I'd trade Ginobili for.

[FoxMulder]

Dwyane Wade, Lebron James, Kobe Bryant, Tracy McGrady, Ray Allen are all players I'd trade Ginobili for.


Let´s do it!!!
Trade him for any of these players!!! :smokin

All of them are still a maybe

even Kobe without Shaq

[King]

Let´s do it!!!
Trade him for any of these players!!! :smokin

All of them are still a maybe

even Kobe without Shaq

It's not even a maybe, if the other GMs were stupid enough to offer up any of those players for Manu, SA would be stupid not to jump at it. Manu's a great player, but he'll never be a consistent 30+, dominant player. All of those guys are.

[Sense]

He's definately top 5.

[rascal]

Dwyane Wade, Lebron James, Kobe Bryant, Tracy McGrady, Ray Allen are all players I'd trade Ginobili for.

Finally someone with some sense.

[Sense]

Dwyane Wade, Lebron James, Kobe Bryant, Tracy McGrady, Ray Allen are all players I'd trade Ginobili for


That's very bad from a Spurs fan... you should know what Ginobili is capable of doing..and you should know that he's the best spot for the spurs.

[duncan_21]

Let´s do it!!!
Trade him for any of these players!!! :smokin

All of them are still a maybe

even Kobe without Shaq

lebron would be the only player that I would be willing to trade for manu if you could equal out their contracts. I would take lebron because he's young and is a pretty darn good player.

Wade doesn't have a good enough jumper for me to take him over manu, and imo I think they're equals.

I still think manu can score with the best but he plays a team game and defense. I don't see that from kobe. I'm starting to see it with t-mac.

[caspian]

Tony Parker also plays with TD and does not have even close numbers...

The point is that I think all the usual suspects (Wade, Kobe, Lebron, etc.) could all do what Ginobili did...with Tim Duncan on their team.

I don't know how you got Parker in there.

[SequSpur]

last

[tophy7]

The point is that I think all the usual suspects (Wade, Kobe, Lebron, etc.) could all do what Ginobili did...with Tim Duncan on their team.

I don't know how you got Parker in there.

Kobe and Wade had/have Shaq on their team, why should Manu be penalized for playing with Duncan? Lebron is the only you could make an argument with.

[milkyway21]

Dwyane Wade, Lebron James, Kobe Bryant, Tracy McGrady, Ray Allen are all players I'd trade Ginobili for.I'll take the first three-Wade, LeBron or Kobe over Manu anytime but Allen in San Antonio? Nope :nope


BTW,based efficiency ratings, Allen is ranked as #1 in the shooting guard position, i think Manu is currently ranked as #11(#56 overall), but it doesn't matter to me. we need no pussy:cat here.

[milkyway21]

lastsame old Sequ :lmao

[ducks]

manu played better after the allstar break and helped his team win
james did not

[E20]

I'd trade Manu for Lebron. Also, what does FWIW stand for and IOW?

[tophy7]

FWIW = For what's it worth I think, not sure what IOW is

[milkyway21]

NOONE

and if you think u can just replace ginobili with lebron or tmac you obviously didnt see what he did for this team in the playoffs you son of a bitch. :pctosswell, i am not a Manu obsessed as you are :D But, I saw Manu played amazingly in games 1,2, & 7. Disappeared in games 3 & 4. Cost us game 6 with his last minute wrong decision. and oh i also noted his 20 TOs in the finals series.

You see, everybody is not perfect on this team. I am not idiot not to consider Manu's contribution to this team. But, obviously there's only one name untradeable on this team and his name is not Ginobili. So it is not a crime to think of a better option.

[Obi wan Ginobili]

You people underestimate the "Kill" factor that Ginobili has.

The fact that, if he has the ball in his hands in the final seconds of the game he has a better than 70% chance of beating you.

There are very, very few people in the league with that capability.

I would list them as Manu and Kobe at their positions.

That is It.

[strangeweather]

Until Manu puts up this year's playoff numbers over the course of a full season, I'd rank swingmen:

Kobe
Iverson
Wade
LeBron
T-Mac
Ginobili

Having said that, I'm not sure I would trade Manu for anyone. Kobe would be a chemistry problem, Iverson is getting old, and he would be a chemistry nightmare. And the rest of the guys, even if I thought there was a chance they might improve the Spurs (which is debateable), aren't going anywhere anyway.

[FoxMulder]

well, i am not a Manu obsessed as you are :D But, I saw Manu played amazingly in games 1,2, & 7. Disappeared in games 3 & 4. Cost us game 6 with his last minute wrong decision. and oh i also noted his 20 TOs in the finals series.

You see, everybody is not perfect on this team. I am not idiot not to consider Manu's contribution to this team. But, obviously there's only one name untradeable on this team and his name is not Ginobili. So it is not a crime to think of a better option.

I´m not obssesed but a think you forget that Manu was injured in games 3 and 4 - and really bad. Even when he and Pop try downplay...

Everybody has bad games. Even Kobe trying to take 50 attempts or Duncan failing FT. Even I remember D-Rob making bad games, above all in the playoffs.

The only one who I've never seen hesitate was Jordan, but when was in the 90's.

Ginobili is not God. But is very important not only as a player but also in the locker room. He still humble even when he has won Olympics, Euroleague, and 2 NBA rings, 1 as a role player in his rookie season, and 1 as a big starter and factor.

He´s not Kobe, Allen, T-Mac, Lebron or even Wade

Kobe is really good but he plays alone. He doesn´t play for the team. He just play for himself.

Allen is just a shooter. 0 defense

T-Mac is a shooter, scorer, make highlights and is learning how to play for the team.

Lebron needs another GM. And he´s making some moves that makes me think in Kobe automatically. He´s trying to get involved into the team´s direction.... I hope not but...

Wade is flashy and young but he play's with Shaq before Shaq he just was a great project just behind Lebron and Carmelo.

Of course if you just see a part of the picture then anyone is better...

Lebron make anything, is a media player, and is young
Wade is still improving... he´s better... potentially
Kobe is better scorer, was a media player... and nothing else
Allen is better scorer... and nothing else
T-Mac is better scorer but is still trying to adjust to a team game

Manu hasn´t the same numbers... but he does anything in order to win...
He´s not as flashy or better scorer as any of those guys but ...

He know how to play for team making assists when is needed, taking rebounds ... and plays some D.
He hasn´t an star attitude, he still humble (at 28 is difficult to change that)
Heart, and Passion

And if somebody offers me a player to trade Manu for ... the only one I choose maybe (and only for his age) is Lebron.
But is just a dream as any of the other players.
Trade him for Kobe, the only winner will be the Lakers - and Manu with all the media coverage.... - with a good team player
Or trade him for T-Mac, Manu has a good relationship with Yao and he knows how to plays with a big men.
Or for Wade and he will be playing with Shaq.

Accept it... is a bargain for the Spurs.

[manubili]

Individually Manu isn't so great as Kobe, Lebron or Wade, and that's a fact. I'm argentinean, as well as a manu fan, but I'm not blind.

He doesn't have those skills. But what about being a team player? TD needs a Manu-like-player besides him. It's a question of chemistry. You need to be talented but very humble, to be able to play side by side with Timmy.

You have to be able to recognize that you wont be the n°| star of the team. And Manu hasn't a problem with that.

So, no, I wouldn't trade him.

Besides, if you make some cost-benefit analysis with these guys, Manu is the best player, because he is way much cheaper!

[angel_luv]

I wouldn't trade him for anyone.

Well said. My sentiments exactly!!!!!!!!!!!!

[2centsworth]

It's not even a maybe, if the other GMs were stupid enough to offer up any of those players for Manu, SA would be stupid not to jump at it. Manu's a great player, but he'll never be a consistent 30+, dominant player. All of those guys are.
Consistent 30+ scorers, what have you been watching? None of those guys are consistent 30+ scoreres except Kobe when he jacks up all shots.

[nkdlunch]

It's not even a maybe, if the other GMs were stupid enough to offer up any of those players for Manu, SA would be stupid not to jump at it. Manu's a great player, but he'll never be a consistent 30+, dominant player. All of those guys are.

Spurs would be stupid if they refuse to get Kobe/Iverson for Manu???

have you even been watching the playoffs???

[2centsworth]

Until Manu puts up this year's playoff numbers over the course of a full season, I'd rank swingmen:

Kobe
Iverson
Wade
LeBron
T-Mac
Ginobili

Having said that, I'm not sure I would trade Manu for anyone. Kobe would be a chemistry problem, Iverson is getting old, and he would be a chemistry nightmare. And the rest of the guys, even if I thought there was a chance they might improve the Spurs (which is debateable), aren't going anywhere anyway.
Playoffs more important than regular season.

[MiNuS]

There's NOTHING intelligent about shooting 20+ times and hitting only 40%! Understand that and see everything Ginobili bring to the table and you tell me IF
any of the other chumps ( Kobe,AI,) should be even be compared to Manu.

There's Manu and then there's the wannabees.

[Ginobili_20_gold_medalist]

You can't rank guards in the league because they're all under different circumstances. As far as trading Ginobili for another star guard I would say hell no. He doesn't cost as much as the other guards, is a proven winner, has no ego and does what's best for the team, doesn't need to shoot the ball 20 times a game to be effective, and he's fearless and doesn't shrink in big games. Why the hell would you even consider trading that and risk screwing up chemistry?

[batman2883]

I would never trade Manu, he has a style of basketball never really used before, and his heart takes him places that no other player really thrives to achieve.

[Medvedenko]

Here we go again....comparing Manu with Kobe and the like...please watch some more games....
Kobe not a team player...I guess winning 3 rings and going to the finals 4/5 years....wow he was very selfish indeed. How many times does kobe need to bitch slap your team to realize this. Last year was the first time he played under a different system and 2 coaches with new surrounding players and being the first option. You put Manu in that mold it would a lot worse. Manu couldn't play more than 40 min per game and his effeciency would suffer. He has a decent playoff and you guys are comparing him to MJ. You put Kobe on the spurs and they would fold the league.

[nkdlunch]

Here we go again....comparing Manu with Kobe and the like...please watch some more games....
Kobe not a team player...I guess winning 3 rings and going to the finals 4/5 years....wow he was very selfish indeed. How many times does kobe need to bitch slap your team to realize this. Last year was the first time he played under a different system and 2 coaches with new surrounding players and being the first option. You put Manu in that mold it would a lot worse. Manu couldn't play more than 40 min per game and his effeciency would suffer. He has a decent playoff and you guys are comparing him to MJ. You put Kobe on the spurs and they would fold the league.

Kobe had Shaq to get those rings. Actually all the current top 10 guards in the league would have won 3 rings w/that laker team also. including Manu :)

[Medvedenko]

Really...how did Shaq do this year without Kobe...or any other frickin year without Kobe...that's right 0 rings. Please Kobe is the best perimeter player in the L. Sorry, but a bad season of 28,6,6 while going through the changes and injuries is astonishing. Plus his effeciency as the highest of any SG in the L. (9th in the L) Given these circumstances I'll take Kobe any day of the week over any other wing man.

[nkdlunch]

Really...how did Shaq do this year without Kobe...or any other frickin year without Kobe...that's right 0 rings. Please Kobe is the best perimeter player in the L. Sorry, but a bad season of 28,6,6 while going through the changes and injuries is astonishing. Plus his effeciency as the highest of any SG in the L. (9th in the L) Given these circumstances I'll take Kobe any day of the week over any other wing man.

good for u, that's why even the Lakers are thinking about getting rid of him. And do you think it's a coincidence that Shaq went to Miami, and all of a sudden, Wade becomes this superstar???? you don't think Shaq's precense has an impact on Wade's, and previously Kobe's success?

[ICE3000]

Look Manu is nowhere close... yes I said it NO WHERE CLOSE to the likes of kobe or t-mac....I think KOBE was just as valuable to THOSE 3 chips the lakers got as shaq was... Ive said it b4 and ill say it again MANU CAN BE REPLACED!!!! Im not sayin I would like to trade MANU I was just tryin to get a feel of how much value other spurs fans place on manu... personally I think waaaay too much. Look TD would have 3 rings with or without manu...u cant say the same for shaq... and before reply by askin me did I see the finals YES. I did see the finals but if we did not have manu dont u think POP; RC; and the rest of the spurs big hats would have a cozy fit in the 2 position... judging on what ive learned of spurs management in the past 5-6 years I have to say yes... my point MANUS great but he will NEVER be the type of player to be considered the MAN all by himself on an NBA team. this is the reason I place more value on LBJ KOBE WADE T-MAC and a few others because they have the burden of carrying an entire franchise on their backs and I beleieve LBJ WADE AND KOBE have a far better chance of winning a ring as the LEADER of a team than does MANU

[batman2883]

Man yall are talking some mad shit, i'd rather have Manu on the team than Kobe. How many shots a night does Kobe have to actually throw up before getting the type of points he gets a game???? I mean seriously you want a team player who doesnt mind coming off the bench to help his team. A player who doesnt play for the money but for the love of the game and doesnt mind taking the charge. Manu does all the little things that Kobe doesnt, and he doesnt take half as many shots as Kobe does.

[nkdlunch]

Look Manu is nowhere close... yes I said it NO WHERE CLOSE to the likes of kobe or t-mac....I think KOBE was just as valuable to THOSE 3 chips the lakers got as shaq was... Ive said it b4 and ill say it again MANU CAN BE REPLACED!!!! Im not sayin I would like to trade MANU I was just tryin to get a feel of how much value other spurs fans place on manu... personally I think waaaay too much. Look TD would have 3 rings with or without manu...u cant say the same for shaq... and before reply by askin me did I see the finals YES. I did see the finals but if we did not have manu dont u think POP; RC; and the rest of the spurs big hats would have a cozy fit in the 2 position... judging on what ive learned of spurs management in the past 5-6 years I have to say yes... my point MANUS great but he will NEVER be the type of player to be considered the MAN all by himself on an NBA team. this is the reason I place more value on LBJ KOBE WADE T-MAC and a few others because they have the burden of carrying an entire franchise on their backs and I beleieve LBJ WADE AND KOBE have a far better chance of winning a ring as the LEADER of a team than does MANU

Is Kobe the MAN? Lakers didn't even make the playoffs :rolleyes
is LBJ the MAN? he didn't make the playoffs either :rolleyes

Wade has Shaq now, so he won't be the man of his team until Shaq retires.

TMAC... where the hell did he take his Orlando team??? now he is in a decent team but they couldn't even finish off the Mavs after being up 2-0.

where are you MEN now? you're right Manu is not THE MAN of the team but none of the above players is either.

Manu is the reigning Olympic champion and NBA champion. He is not even close to them??? Please stop :smokin too much

[2centsworth]

Is Kobe the MAN? Lakers didn't even make the playoffs :rolleyes
is LBJ the MAN? he didn't make the playoffs either :rolleyes

Wade has Shaq now, so he won't be the man of his team until Shaq retires.

TMAC... where the hell did he take his Orlando team??? now he is in a decent team but they couldn't even finish off the Mavs after being up 2-0.

where are you MEN now?

Manu is the reigning Olympic champion and NBA champion. He is not even close to them??? Please stop :smokin too much
There is a reason why his post are mostly in CAPS, his logic doesn't draw enough attention.

[Medvedenko]

Kobe takes too many shots....well you would to if your team's hold you as the only option. Even with Shaq his shots only went up by a fraction from year over year. His stats were better in all figures from last year and they made the finals. Overal his FG% has been very strong throughout his career and given his challenges in the last 2 years his play is admirable. Look to this year as his redemption year...and to all those idiots who think LA is looking to trade Kobe, think about the no-trade clause in his contract.

[batman2883]

The fact is Kobe will not win another championship in a league where teams are starting to play "TEAM" ball. His style of basketball is shoot first and worry about teammates complaining later, he is a ball hog, who takes way too many shots to get the type of stats he gets. Fact is, i'd rather have a complete team than a one man show.

[Medvedenko]

Batman#....I would rather have a team than 1 player as well...I don't disagree, players need to be selfish at times and defer at times as well....Time will tell if Kobe will win another ring...time will tell.

[ICE3000]

Is Kobe the MAN? Lakers didn't even make the playoffs :rolleyes
is LBJ the MAN? he didn't make the playoffs either :rolleyes

Wade has Shaq now, so he won't be the man of his team until Shaq retires.

TMAC... where the hell did he take his Orlando team??? now he is in a decent team but they couldn't even finish off the Mavs after being up 2-0.

where are you MEN now? you're right Manu is not THE MAN of the team but none of the above players is either.

Manu is the reigning Olympic champion and NBA champion. He is not even close to them??? Please stop :smokin too much


Okay this is what Im sayin...

is kobe the man? YES... his team didnt make the playoffs but if u swap him for manu they STILL wouldnt make the playoffs...same thing goes for LBJ

in regards to wade I believe he will eventually win a ring by LEADING a team of his own.... somethin manu will never do


Ginobili=Pippen... u can argue that he is a great player and at times he was but when its all said and done he is just a hyped up sidekick that would have a ring if it wasn up to him to BE THE MAN

AGAIN... LBJ KOBE WADE have a FAR better chance of winning as there teams #1 guy than does MANU u cant dispute that

[ICE3000]

Is Kobe the MAN? Lakers didn't even make the playoffs :rolleyes
is LBJ the MAN? he didn't make the playoffs either :rolleyes

Wade has Shaq now, so he won't be the man of his team until Shaq retires.

TMAC... where the hell did he take his Orlando team??? now he is in a decent team but they couldn't even finish off the Mavs after being up 2-0.

where are you MEN now? you're right Manu is not THE MAN of the team but none of the above players is either.

Manu is the reigning Olympic champion and NBA champion. He is not even close to them??? Please stop :smokin too much


Okay this is what Im sayin...

is kobe the man? YES... his team didnt make the playoffs but if u swap him for manu they STILL wouldnt make the playoffs...same thing goes for LBJ

in regards to wade I believe he will eventually win a ring by LEADING a team of his own.... somethin manu will never do


Ginobili=Pippen... u can argue that he is a great player and at times he was but when its all said and done he is just a hyped up sidekick that would not have a ring if it was up to him to BE THE MAN

AGAIN... LBJ KOBE WADE have a FAR better chance of winning as there teams #1 guy than does MANU u cant dispute that

MANU is not on a SUPERSTAR in this legue please believe me he is NOT

it almost seems you are sayin manu is better than kobe the way duncan is better than kg based on accomplishments... if u are saying that than ur the one :smokin too much

[Sense]

Okay this is what Im sayin...

is kobe the man? YES... his team didnt make the playoffs but if u swap him for manu they STILL wouldnt make the playoffs...same thing goes for LBJ

in regards to wade I believe he will eventually win a ring by LEADING a team of his own.... somethin manu will never do


Ginobili=Pippen... u can argue that he is a great player and at times he was but when its all said and done he is just a hyped up sidekick that would have a ring if it wasn up to him to BE THE MAN

AGAIN... LBJ KOBE WADE have a FAR better chance of winning as there teams #1 guy than does MANU u cant dispute that


there's a difference between manu and the morons you described are better..

Manu can lead a team, and he's unselfish.

And like I said before... Manu is the only one that can be unstoppable without taking 30 shots to get his points...


I'd never trade manu for any of those morons.

[Ginobili_20_gold_medalist]

]... Ive said it b4 and ill say it again MANU CAN BE REPLACED!!!! Im not sayin I would like to trade MANU I was just tryin to get a feel of how much value other spurs fans place on manu... personally I think waaaay too much. Look TD would have 3 rings with or without manu...u cant say the same for shaq

This is without a doubt one of the dumbest things I've ever read...seriously.

So you think Ginobili can be replaced and Duncan would have 3 rings without him but you think Shaq wouldn't have rings without Kobe? :lol I give Phil more credit for Shaq's rings than Kobe. He got Shaq in a system that works. Did you actually see Kobe the first title year? He was VERY inconsistent. He was in foul trouble every other game against the Blazers in the Western Conference Finals and getting killed in the post by every Blazer guard/forward. They took turns abusing him. In the Finals he only averaged 15 freakin points shooting in the high 30's percentage-wise. You think Shaq in his prime (scoring 30+ points and snatching 15+ rebounds) couldn't have won a title with any other decent SG? Get out of here with that man lol. If you think Ginobili could be replaced after his performance in this years playoffs then Kobe DEFINITELY could have been replaced on that Laker title team.

And it's not hard to shoot the ball 20+ times and score 25+ while having your shooting percentage in the low 40's. Hell, even JERRY STACKHOUSE led this freakin league in scoring at one time lol. If you dominate the ball as much as Kobe, T-Mac and Iverson of course your stats are going to be inflated. Give Ginobili the greenlight to shoot the ball more than 12 times a game and watch his stats look similar but thank GOD he doesn't play that way or have the need to be "the man". That's what got T-Mac and Kobe in the situations they are now and I don't feel a bit sorry for them. GIve me a team player with skills anyday over someone with a "wannabe Jordan" complex.

[ICE3000]

there's a difference between manu and the morons you described are better..

Manu can lead a team, and he's unselfish.

And like I said before... Manu is the only one that can be unstoppable without taking 30 shots to get his points...


I'd never trade manu for any of those morons.

I respect your opinon but I strongly disagree... I dont think if put in the exact situation that KOBR BRYANT is in manu would do any better as a matter of fact he would do alot worse... kobe is a better passer/slasher/jump shooter/rebounder/defender/has more hops/is far mor clutch/and just plain better than manu... Ginobili would put up 30 shots if he played on a team that required him to do so... whatelse is he goin to do he aint exactly LBJ when it comes to dishin the rock... if it were up to ginobili to distribute the basketball on a ball club he would average twice as many TO's than assists... look at the dumb plays he makes for us

[Ishta]

Manu ranks as one of the greatest floppers of all time..
:lol With 2 championship rings and a gold medal I say he can do whatever the fuck he wants :spin

[2centsworth]

Manu won the gold medal almost by himself, unless you count pepe sanchez.

[nkdlunch]

Okay this is what Im sayin...

is kobe the man? YES... his team didnt make the playoffs but if u swap him for manu they STILL wouldnt make the playoffs...same thing goes for LBJ

in regards to wade I believe he will eventually win a ring by LEADING a team of his own.... somethin manu will never do


Ginobili=Pippen... u can argue that he is a great player and at times he was but when its all said and done he is just a hyped up sidekick that would not have a ring if it was up to him to BE THE MAN

AGAIN... LBJ KOBE WADE have a FAR better chance of winning as there teams #1 guy than does MANU u cant dispute that

MANU is not on a SUPERSTAR in this legue please believe me he is NOT

it almost seems you are sayin manu is better than kobe the way duncan is better than kg based on accomplishments... if u are saying that than ur the one :smokin too much

Like I said, Kobe, TMAc had their chances and failed to this point.

Wade is under Shaq's shadow.

Your only hope is LBJ. He is the hope of the whole NBA and the whole country.

[Nikos]

Did you actually see Kobe the first title year? He was VERY inconsistent. He was in foul trouble every other game against the Blazers in the Western Conference Finals and getting killed in the post by every Blazer guard/forward. They took turns abusing him. In the Finals he only averaged 15 freakin points shooting in the high 30's percentage-wise. You think Shaq in his prime (scoring 30+ points and snatching 15+ rebounds) couldn't have won a title with any other decent SG? Get out of here with that man lol. If you think Ginobili could be replaced after his performance in this years playoffs then Kobe DEFINITELY could have been replaced on that Laker title team.


Interesting post. I agree with it on some points.

But Kobe was more focused on defense in 1999-00. He did get abused at times in the post against Portland, but he averaged 2.6BPG that series!

Kobe was obviously less focused on offense then and less developed offensively in relationship to Shaq and the Laker offense..

vs Portland
43.1MPG 20.4PPG 4.9RPG 5.9APG 1.6SPG 2.6BPG on 44FG%

Kobe did play major minutes, but he didn't commit many turnovers and scored pretty efficiently. He also played excellent defense (at least HELP defense).

Ginobili is very comparable as a sidekick in comparison to the 2000 Kobe. Ginobili was more productive on offense and less so defensively.

Also, wasn't Kobe hurt in the NBA Finals? Didn't that affect his productivity?

[nanya]

one of the best in the bussiness :spin

[Medvedenko]

Kobe was banged up in the first championship run...especially in the finals. People say Kobe had his chance without Shaq and failed...good test year....injured, brand new system and team with a new coach...a recipe for greatness....whatever.

A great individual is only great if his team is great.

[ICE3000]

This is without a doubt one of the dumbest things I've ever read...seriously.

So you think Ginobili can be replaced and Duncan would have 3 rings without him but you think Shaq wouldn't have rings without Kobe? :lol I give Phil more credit for Shaq's rings than Kobe. He got Shaq in a system that works. Did you actually see Kobe the first title year? He was VERY inconsistent. He was in foul trouble every other game against the Blazers in the Western Conference Finals and getting killed in the post by every Blazer guard/forward. They took turns abusing him. In the Finals he only averaged 15 freakin points shooting in the high 30's percentage-wise. You think Shaq in his prime (scoring 30+ points and snatching 15+ rebounds) couldn't have won a title with any other decent SG? Get out of here with that man lol. If you think Ginobili could be replaced after his performance in this years playoffs then Kobe DEFINITELY could have been replaced on that Laker title team.

And it's not hard to shoot the ball 20+ times and score 25+ while having your shooting percentage in the low 40's. Hell, even JERRY STACKHOUSE led this freakin league in scoring at one time lol. If you dominate the ball as much as Kobe, T-Mac and Iverson of course your stats are going to be inflated. Give Ginobili the greenlight to shoot the ball more than 12 times a game and watch his stats look similar but thank GOD he doesn't play that way or have the need to be "the man". That's what got T-Mac and Kobe in the situations they are now and I don't feel a bit sorry for them. GIve me a team player with skills anyday over someone with a "wannabe Jordan" complex.


Man I am a spurs fan... Im love my spurs but lets end this right now KOBE is better than MANU period. Another thing it is not dumb for me to assume that without Kobe shaq would not have 3 rings KOBE has was the 2nd or 3rd best palyer in the league for that stretch of laker chips... and at times it took a lil luck and very questionable calls for the lakers to win some of those series I dont think Kobe could have been raplaced by guard in the league at that time not even by t-mac... BTW shaq is waaaay overrated imo also he needed kobe just as much as kobe needed him

[FoxMulder]

I respect your opinon but I strongly disagree... I dont think if put in the exact situation that KOBR BRYANT is in manu would do any better as a matter of fact he would do alot worse... kobe is a better passer/slasher/jump shooter/rebounder/defender/has more hops/is far mor clutch/and just plain better than manu... Ginobili would put up 30 shots if he played on a team that required him to do so... whatelse is he goin to do he aint exactly LBJ when it comes to dishin the rock... if it were up to ginobili to distribute the basketball on a ball club he would average twice as many TO's than assists... look at the dumb plays he makes for us

If he is so dumb then trade him... send him to the Lakers for Kobe... let´s see what happens..

I´ve never seen Kobe take less than 15 shots unless he was injured...

Manu
G 74
GS 74
MPG 29.6
FG% .471
3P% .376
FT% .803
OFF Reb 1.00
DEF Reb 3.40
RPG 4.40
APG 3.9
SPG 1.61
BPG .36
TO 2.32
PF 2.60
PPG 16.0

Kobe
G 66
GS 66
MPG 40.7
FG% .433
3P% .339
FT% .816
OFFR 1.40
DEFR 4.50
RPG 5.90
APG 6.0
SPG 1.30
BPG .80
TO 4.09
PF 2.60
PPG 27.6

Impressive numbers by Kobe but he plays 40 Mpg, Manu plays 29 MPG.
And Manu still needs less shots to score.
Kobe pick more rebounds (again remember the minutes) and has less steals
and 2 more TO per game!??

And you called Manu a dumb!?

I could compare playoffs numbers but Kobe hasn´t...

[nkdlunch]

Man I am a spurs fan... Im love my spurs but lets end this right now KOBE is better than MANU period. Another thing it is not dumb for me to assume that without Kobe shaq would not have 3 rings KOBE has was the 2nd or 3rd best palyer in the league for that stretch of laker chips... and at times it took a lil luck and very questionable calls for the lakers to win some of those series I dont think Kobe could have been raplaced by guard in the league at that time not even by t-mac... BTW shaq is waaaay overrated imo also he needed kobe just as much as kobe needed him

If you're a real Spurs fan, then why don't you realize Without Manu we wouldn't have won this year???

TD needs Manu as much as Shaq neede Kobe back then. Face it.

[ICE3000]

If he is so dumb then trade him... send him to the Lakers for Kobe... let´s see what happens..

I´ve never seen Kobe take less than 15 shots unless he was injured...

Manu
G 74
GS 74
MPG 29.6
FG% .471
3P% .376
FT% .803
OFF Reb 1.00
DEF Reb 3.40
RPG 4.40
APG 3.9
SPG 1.61
BPG .36
TO 2.32
PF 2.60
PPG 16.0

Kobe
G 66
GS 66
MPG 40.7
FG% .433
3P% .339
FT% .816
OFFR 1.40
DEFR 4.50
RPG 5.90
APG 6.0
SPG 1.30
BPG .80
TO 4.09
PF 2.60
PPG 27.6

Impressive numbers by Kobe but he plays 40 Mpg, Manu plays 29 MPG.
And Manu still needs less shots to score.
Kobe pick more rebounds (again remember the minutes) and has less steals
and 2 more TO per game!??

And you called Manu a dumb!?

I could compare playoffs numbers but Kobe hasn´t...

Im not suggesting trade manu Im simply just blown away that u think ginobili is even close to as good as kobe. And yes the spur would be a better team if we had kobe... all that stuff between him a shaq got blown outta proportion b/c they both have huge egos.. but if kobe played alonside someone like TD that would let him soak up the spotlight (the way manu does now) everthing would work out perfect. Tim would just play let kobe be the star and the spurs would win until 2010

[waly.mg]

Manu ranks as one of the greatest floppers of all time..

THE SUNS ARE FLOPPERS
SEEMS THAT THEY ARE THE BEST TEAM OF THE LEAGUE WHEN IN FACT THEY ARE NOT

[FoxMulder]

don't forget salary cap man... and the lakers will want Manu, Bowen and Parker and half of the Spurs without any doubt...

[Athenea]

Im not suggesting trade manu Im simply just blown away that u think ginobili is even close to as good as kobe. And yes the spur would be a better team if we had kobe... all that stuff between him a shaq got blown outta proportion b/c they both have huge egos.. but if kobe played alonside someone like TD that would let him soak up the spotlight (the way manu does now) everthing would work out perfect. Tim would just play let kobe be the star and the spurs would win until 2010
R u John from another forum???? U sure sound like him ... :rolleyes

[Ginobili_20_gold_medalist]

Im not suggesting trade manu Im simply just blown away that u think ginobili is even close to as good as kobe. And yes the spur would be a better team if we had kobe... all that stuff between him a shaq got blown outta proportion b/c they both have huge egos.. but if kobe played alonside someone like TD that would let him soak up the spotlight (the way manu does now) everthing would work out perfect. Tim would just play let kobe be the star and the spurs would win until 2010

That's Kobe's problem. He WANTS to be the star. He plays for himself and cares nothing but for his own legacy. I'm "blown away" that anyone would want to trade for a SG that needs to shoot the ball 20+ times a game and disrupt team chemistry. I mean how much more spotlight would Duncan have to give up for Kobe? He was already taking the majority of the shots in LA and the Lakers suffered for it. Look at these Finals numbers from '04.

Game 1 -

Kobe 10-27 for 25 points, 4 rebs, 4 assists
Shaq 13-16 for 34 points, 11 rebs, 1 assist

Game 2 -

Kobe 14-27 for 33 points, 4 rebs, 7 assists
Shaq 10-20 for 29 points, 7 rebs, 3 assists

Game 3 -

Kobe 4-13 for 11 points, 3 rebs, 5 assists
Shaq 7-14 for 14 points, 8 rebs, 1 assist

Game 4 -

Kobe 8-25 for 20 points, 0 rebs, 2 assists
Shaq 16-21 for 36 points, 20 rebs, 2 assists


Game 5 -

Kobe 7-21 for 24 points, 3 rebs, 4 assists
Shaq 7-13 for 20 points, 8 rebs, 1 assist

Kobe had ONE good game and shot the ball significantly more than Shaq in every game but one. That's 113 shots (39% shooting) for Kobe...84 shots (63%) for Shaq. I would say Shaq gave up the spotlight. No way in hell would I trade for a guard that's too stupid to give the ball up to his big man shooting 63%.