Dow Jones hits new record high

[DMX7]

I've got to admit, I though the bubble would burst around 14,500, but it seems to just keep going up -- no end in sight.

The market is also clearly disconnected from the economy. Profits are going up on the backs of the wealthy (who are buying and investing) and on the poor (who are having their job's cut to "back into profit" -- i.e., reduce expenses).

[boutons_deux]

"The market is also clearly disconnected from the economy."

the entire financial sector is disconnected from the Real Economy of the 99%.

Corporate profits are at all time high sitting on $Ts of cash, while corporate taxes as total tax revenue are extremely low historically and below most advanced industrial countries.

[Big Empty]

Im bullish on C. Long term. 10, 15 years i think ill get to retire right around 50. Im betting alot on it. :)

[Sportcamper]

I opened a 13 month CD @ an impressive rate of .45% this week…
It’s like the Feds are forcing savers into equities…

[DarrinS]

Hoping my 401k gets to ¼mil by EOY.

[CosmicCowboy]

I opened a 13 month CD @ an impressive rate of .45% this week…
It’s like the Feds are forcing savers into equities…

Exactly. Investors are accepting more risk because interest rates are being manipulated by the fed and equities are the only thing giving a decent return. The burn is coming. It's just a matter of time.

[ChumpDumper]

Is there any practical reason for interest rates to be higher at this point?

[Blake]

I opened a 13 month CD @ an impressive rate of .45% this week…
It’s like the Feds are forcing savers into equities…

Why would you even bother with a CD at that rate?

I bet you could find a savings account with a higher rate.

[CosmicCowboy]

Is there any practical reason for interest rates to be higher at this point?

Good question. If you think that the Fed creating trillions of new dollars to keep interest rates artificially low is a good thing then no.

[DMX7]

Why would you even bother with a CD at that rate?

I bet you could find a savings account with a higher rate.

Yeah, for real.

I have a savings account with AmEx. Interest rate has never fallen below .85%.

[Sportcamper]

Why would you even bother with a CD at that rate?
I bet you could find a savings account with a higher rate.

I am guessing that you would be hard pressed to find a yield that is even one percent (Today that is)…The CU that I have the CD with is offering new car loans at 1.49%

It is a great time for borrowers and terrible time for savers….

[Drachen]

Im bullish on C. Long term. 10, 15 years i think ill get to retire right around 50. Im betting alot on it. :)

I didn't think it would enjoy such a run up. Geez I whiffed on that one.

[DMX7]

I am guessing that you would be hard pressed to find a yield that is even one percent (Today that is)…The CU that I have the CD with is offering new car loans at 1.49%

It is a great time for borrowers and terrible time for savers….

It's never really that great of a time for savers. You need to invest just to beat inflation.

[DarrinS]

It is a great time for borrowers and terrible time for savers….

This

[CosmicCowboy]

I am guessing that you would be hard pressed to find a yield that is even one percent (Today that is)…The CU that I have the CD with is offering new car loans at 1.49%

It is a great time for borrowers and terrible time for savers….

It's a great time for borrowers with GOOD CREDIT. Banks are major tight asses with their money for normal small businesses. They can borrow at the fed window for 0 and reloan it to the government at a profit with zero risk. Why make loans to the people that drive the economy?

[Latarian Milton]

it's always a better idea to put your $ in stock market rather than banks but not everyone has enough brain to always make the right investment imho.

[CosmicCowboy]

LOL @ virgin LM professing to have brains to game the stock market with his allowance from mom.

[angrydude]

There is no point in worrying about losing gains when the stock market goes up. If you actually know what you are doing, and are not just blindly putting your money in apple or whatever, you will make money no matter if it goes up, down, or sideways.

Yes the nominal prices are going up, but its mainly just banks trading with each other using fed funny money to bid up prices. TBO it's just a shell game to get dumbasses to put their retirement accounts in it again so they can pull the rug out one last time once the fed liquidity drys up.

[InRareForm]

Smoke and mirrors

[Sportcamper]

It's a great time for borrowers with GOOD CREDIT.

Auto loans are back to pre 2008 levels…Or as one Ford finance manger says, we are back to shaking the maggot tree…We finance anyone…

Home loans have eased considerably…A person in Cali with poor credit may not get 3.5% but they are still getting great rates under 6%...

In 1979 prime was 21.5%...My truck loan was at 17%...A few years later I purchased my first house & my loan was 12.9% fixed…

California is driving small business to other states…I don’t know anyone even applying for small business loans anymore…

[CosmicCowboy]

Auto loans are back to pre 2008 levels…Or as one Ford finance manger says, we are back to shaking the maggot tree…We finance anyone…

This is gonna be one of the next big wave of default scandals. These loans aren't being done by Ford Credit. These customers are flipped to some wall street predators that put these 'second and third chance" idiots in loans with 22% interest rates and then turn around and package these shit loans into securities and sell them to return hungry investors. Exact same thing they did on shit home loans, just with cars. The ratings agency let them slide with AAA ratings because the companies assure them that their loan selection process is very "scientific" and because most of the borrowers are still in their first or second year of the loan. When they get 3 or 4 years into a 72 month loan and realize how upside down they are they will walk away. They have nothing to lose since they have shitty credit anyway.

Home loans have eased considerably…A person in Cali with poor credit may not get 3.5% but they are still getting great rates under 6%...

Hmmm...maybe through the government refi programs but It's pretty damn hard to get a new loan if your credit score is under 700 unless you put a shitload of money down.

In 1979 prime was 21.5%...My truck loan was at 17%...A few years later I purchased my first house & my loan was 12.9% fixed…

California is driving small business to other states…I don’t know anyone even applying for small business loans anymore…

[CosmicCowboy]

http://hotair.com/archives/2013/04/04/great-news-subprime-auto-loans-up-18-in-2012/


The Fed’s program, while aimed at bolstering the U.S. housing and labor markets, has also steered billions of dollars into riskier, more speculative corners of the economy. That’s because, with low interest rates pinching yields on their traditional investments, insurance companies, hedge funds and other institutional investors hunger for riskier, higher-yielding securities – bonds backed by subprime auto loans, for instance.

Lenders like Exeter have rushed to meet that demand. Backed by Wall Street banks and big private-equity firms, they have been selling ever-greater amounts of subprime auto loans in the form of relatively high-yield securities and using the proceeds to fund even more lending to more subprime borrowers.

Expansion of the subprime auto business was chronicled in a 2011 Los Angeles Times series. Since then, growth has continued apace. Consider that in 2012, lenders sold $18.5 billion in securities backed by subprime auto loans, compared with $11.75 billion in 2011, according to ratings firm Standard & Poor’s. The pace has continued so far this year, with $5.7 billion of the securities issued, compared with $4.4 billion for the same period last year, according to Deutsche Bank AG. On Monday alone, three deals totaling $1.6 billion of subprime auto securities were announced by Wall Street banks.

[coyotes_geek]

Maybe I'm just desensitized after the housing bubble, but I don't see an auto finance bubble as something to get worked up about. Sure if you're invested in these things you can get burnt, but autos don't hold anything close to the potential for collateral damage as houses did. The individual loans are a fraction of the size and everybody knows that an automobile is only going to depreciate in value.

[Sportcamper]

I will have to ask a Broker how low a credit score can be for new home purchases…

[TeyshaBlue]

Maybe I'm just desensitized after the housing bubble, but I don't see an auto finance bubble as something to get worked up about. Sure if you're invested in these things you can get burnt, but autos don't hold anything close to the potential for collateral damage as houses did. The individual loans are a fraction of the size and everybody knows that an automobile is only going to depreciate in value.

Expansion of the subprime auto business was chronicled in a 2011 Los Angeles Times series. Since then, growth has continued apace. Consider that in 2012, lenders sold $18.5 billion in securities backed by subprime auto loans, compared with $11.75 billion in 2011, according to ratings firm Standard & Poor's. The pace has continued so far this year, with $5.7 billion of the securities issued, compared with $4.4 billion for the same period last year, according to Deutsche Bank AG. On Monday alone, three deals totaling $1.6 billion of subprime auto securities were announced by Wall Street banks.


http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/04/03/us-usa-qe3-subprimeauto-special-report-idUSBRE9320ES20130403

[coyotes_geek]

Expansion of the subprime auto business was chronicled in a 2011 Los Angeles Times series. Since then, growth has continued apace. Consider that in 2012, lenders sold $18.5 billion in securities backed by subprime auto loans, compared with $11.75 billion in 2011, according to ratings firm Standard & Poor's. The pace has continued so far this year, with $5.7 billion of the securities issued, compared with $4.4 billion for the same period last year, according to Deutsche Bank AG. On Monday alone, three deals totaling $1.6 billion of subprime auto securities were announced by Wall Street banks.


http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/04/03/us-usa-qe3-subprimeauto-special-report-idUSBRE9320ES20130403

Understand, it's growing rapidly. Still, we're talking $billions as opposed to $trillions that were in play when the housing bubble burst.

[TeyshaBlue]

Understand, it's growing rapidly. Still, we're talking $billions as opposed to $trillions that were in play when the housing bubble burst.

True. It's the enabling that the Fed provides that fuels this behavior across other financial segments that is troubling.

[Blake]

Auto loans are back to pre 2008 levels…Or as one Ford finance manger says, we are back to shaking the maggot tree…We finance anyone…

Home loans have eased considerably…A person in Cali with poor credit may not get 3.5% but they are still getting great rates under 6%...

In 1979 prime was 21.5%...My truck loan was at 17%...A few years later I purchased my first house & my loan was 12.9% fixed…

California is driving small business to other states…I don’t know anyone even applying for small business loans anymore…

I could be wrong, but I thought home loan interest rates and down payment requirements are the same for everyone on the day they get approved, as long as they meet the minimum credit score standard.

[ChumpDumper]

Good question. If you think that the Fed creating trillions of new dollars to keep interest rates artificially low is a good thing then no.And if I don't think it's a good thing is there a practical reason for interest rates to be "naturally" higher at this point?

[Sportcamper]

Blake I do not believe that is correct but my source is gone for the weekend…Loan brokers get different packages all the time…A person with a less desirable credit can get financed but sometimes at a higher interest rate or as Cosmic said with a bigger down payment…Just like Ford can offer 0% finance to a person with excellent credit or 15% finance for a person with bad credit…

[Sportcamper]

Text Message from broker…

I can go as low as 640 credit score…Higher rate for lower credit score is correct…With big down payment on purchase or large equity on refi, rate is minimized…

[Blake]

Blake I do not believe that is correct but my source is gone for the weekend…Loan brokers get different packages all the time…A person with a less desirable credit can get financed but sometimes at a higher interest rate or as Cosmic said with a bigger down payment…Just like Ford can offer 0% finance to a person with excellent credit or 15% finance for a person with bad credit…

Ok. I think though that even the worst credit won't mean more than maybe 1% extra?

I haven't heard of anyone hitting over 7% in the last ten years.

I got locked in at 5% four years ago with less than perfect credit....which asking around was about the norm

[Wild Cobra]

It's about time we have a record again. I'll bet we would be at 17K+ if we didn't have the 2008 bailout and elect all Democrat majorities in 2008.

http://chart.finance.yahoo.com/z?s=^DJI&t=5y&q=l&l=on&z=l&a=v&p=s&lang=en-US&region=US

It is nice that my mutual funds approximately doubled since 2009 though.

[mavs>spurs]

Ok. I think though that even the worst credit won't mean more than maybe 1% extra?

I haven't heard of anyone hitting over 7% in the last ten years.

I got locked in at 5% four years ago with less than perfect credit....which asking around was about the norm

are you talking about auto????

[Bender]

lots of people are paying 9% or even way more on auto loans. knew someone recently paying 14% on her mazda.

[mavs>spurs]

lots of people are paying 9% or even way more on auto loans. knew someone recently paying 14% on her mazda.

u guys can't be serious. ya'll are so far out of the know. i work in subprime auto..try 23% if you want high.

[DMX7]

The only financing I would take for a car loan is 0% interest rate financing.

[Th'Pusher]

u guys can't be serious. ya'll are so far out of the know. i work in subprime auto..try 23% if you want high.
That's a pretty sweet job you were able to score with that uta finance degree.

[CosmicCowboy]

u guys can't be serious. ya'll are so far out of the know. i work in subprime auto..try 23% if you want high.

It can be a really really profitable business. I started a (second) business with a partner in the early 90's buying second chance notes from dealers at a steep discount and servicing them. This was before the big boys on Wall Street got into it. We used my money/credit to start it and he was supposed to run it. I wasn't just buying notes from the fly by nights but from some of the bigger dealers in SA from their used car lots. It worked pretty good after I got employees in place (had 20 when I sold out) to monitor my partner that couldn't keep his hands out of the cookie jar. If he had just been honest and worked as hard at the company as he did trying to figure out ways to get money out of it it he could have eventually made millions. Finally got to be too big of a pain in the ass trying to keep him from stealing from me and I fire sale sold my half (after getting all my startup money paid back) for 350K pretax to another investor group (doctors) he brought in. I warned the new guys that my ex-partner was a thief but they didn't believe me. He ended up breaking the company and the new guys ended up losing a couple of million. Idiots were giving him an upfront percentage bonus to originate notes and letting HIM do the due diligence and price the discounts...how fucking stupid can you get?...He was making it on both ends cuz he was getting a kickback from the dealers to overpay for their shit notes. Greedy cocksucker stuffed their portfolio with shit notes they had overpaid for just to get his cheesy 5% commission and live white trash large for a couple of years until the company went broke.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

It's about time we have a record again. I'll bet we would be at 17K+ if we didn't have the 2008 bailout and elect all Democrat majorities in 2008.

http://chart.finance.yahoo.com/z?s=^DJI&t=5y&q=l&l=on&z=l&a=v&p=s&lang=en-US&region=US

It is nice that my mutual funds approximately doubled since 2009 though.
:lmao right, cause 8 years of Bush and his right wing policies had the stock market roling when he left office.

"Maybe the dow has doubled since Obama took office, but it would have maybe TRIPLED if we elected someone who had the same policies as Bush had!"

[Drachen]

It can be a really really profitable business. I started a (second) business with a partner in the early 90's buying second chance notes from dealers at a steep discount and servicing them. This was before the big boys on Wall Street got into it. We used my money/credit to start it and he was supposed to run it. I wasn't just buying notes from the fly by nights but from some of the bigger dealers in SA from their used car lots. It worked pretty good after I got employees in place (had 20 when I sold out) to monitor my partner that couldn't keep his hands out of the cookie jar. If he had just been honest and worked as hard at the company as he did trying to figure out ways to get money out of it it he could have eventually made millions. Finally got to be too big of a pain in the ass trying to keep him from stealing from me and I fire sale sold my half (after getting all my startup money paid back) for 350K pretax to another investor group (doctors) he brought in. I warned the new guys that my ex-partner was a thief but they didn't believe me. He ended up breaking the company and the new guys ended up losing a couple of million. Idiots were giving him an upfront percentage bonus to originate notes and letting HIM do the due diligence and price the discounts...how fucking stupid can you get?...He was making it on both ends cuz he was getting a kickback from the dealers to overpay for their shit notes. Greedy cocksucker stuffed their portfolio with shit notes they had overpaid for just to get his cheesy 5% commission and live white trash large for a couple of years until the company went broke.

This sounds like my brother in law. I swear, that guy has a knack for starting businesses. He can start them, get a decent amount of clients and bring in revenue like nobody's business, but then he gets greedy after only about 6 mos. He starts to cut corners because he is shady and wants that cash then his business slowly sinks because customers don't want to deal with his shady ass. If he decided that he wanted to start businesses to sell to investors at 6 mos, he could rake it in, but he struggles because he is a moron.

[CosmicCowboy]

This sounds like my brother in law. I swear, that guy has a knack for starting businesses. He can start them, get a decent amount of clients and bring in revenue like nobody's business, but then he gets greedy after only about 6 mos. He starts to cut corners because he is shady and wants that cash then his business slowly sinks because customers don't want to deal with his shady ass. If he decided that he wanted to start businesses to sell to investors at 6 mos, he could rake it in, but he struggles because he is a moron.

Yeah, my partner really seemed like he had the package...He was a young good looking guy with a great personality...just a super salesman, really smart and energetic...It seemed like the perfect match with my experience, contacts, and backing...sadly as I found out later he just couldn't help himself...he just couldn't be honest and expended most of his intelligence and energy trying to figure out how to get around me and the financial controls I had in place...understand, I was letting him draw a 65K salary (in 1993) during startup for the first year or two when we weren't making a "profit" because we were growing and adding employees to keep ahead of growth.

After he broke that company he moved to the coast and married into money and started several other companies with her family money, embezzled all of them, got divorced etc. I googled his name recently and saw where he got arrested last fall for theft...don't have any details on how that turned out...probably hasn't gone to court yet.

Funny thing, this guy came from a good family and all his brothers and sisters are normal hard working professionals...he was just the black sheep con artist from day one.

[mavs>spurs]

It can be a really really profitable business. I started a (second) business with a partner in the early 90's buying second chance notes from dealers at a steep discount and servicing them. This was before the big boys on Wall Street got into it. We used my money/credit to start it and he was supposed to run it. I wasn't just buying notes from the fly by nights but from some of the bigger dealers in SA from their used car lots. It worked pretty good after I got employees in place (had 20 when I sold out) to monitor my partner that couldn't keep his hands out of the cookie jar. If he had just been honest and worked as hard at the company as he did trying to figure out ways to get money out of it it he could have eventually made millions. Finally got to be too big of a pain in the ass trying to keep him from stealing from me and I fire sale sold my half (after getting all my startup money paid back) for 350K pretax to another investor group (doctors) he brought in. I warned the new guys that my ex-partner was a thief but they didn't believe me. He ended up breaking the company and the new guys ended up losing a couple of million. Idiots were giving him an upfront percentage bonus to originate notes and letting HIM do the due diligence and price the discounts...how fucking stupid can you get?...He was making it on both ends cuz he was getting a kickback from the dealers to overpay for their shit notes. Greedy cocksucker stuffed their portfolio with shit notes they had overpaid for just to get his cheesy 5% commission and live white trash large for a couple of years until the company went broke.

yeah people are really starting to figure out how lucrative it is, my company isn't exactly the only one in the market anymore and some of the big banks like wells fargo are now getting heavily into it and taking a little of our business. a lot of those who aren't experts in the area are going to end up getting burned though, i'm not sure how solid their system is. i know we have less loss on our loans than some of the institutions who do strictly prime lending, there's some math whiz who designed the formula we use that determines the interest rates. whoever was saying earlier that it's more or less the same rate for anyone is terribly wrong tbh, two people with even the same credit score can still get drastically different rates. dti, pti, credit score, time on job, other auto pmt history, etc goes into the equation. that's pretty cool that you thought of it before some of these huge corps made billions off it.

[CosmicCowboy]

yeah people are really starting to figure out how lucrative it is, my company isn't exactly the only one in the market anymore and some of the big banks like wells fargo are now getting heavily into it and taking a little of our business. a lot of those who aren't experts in the area are going to end up getting burned though, i'm not sure how solid their system is. i know we have less loss on our loans than some of the institutions who do strictly prime lending, there's some math whiz who designed the formula we use that determines the interest rates. whoever was saying earlier that it's more or less the same rate for anyone is terribly wrong tbh, two people with even the same credit score can still get drastically different rates. dti, pti, credit score, time on job, other auto pmt history, etc goes into the equation. that's pretty cool that you thought of it before some of these huge corps made billions off it.

Yeah, you gotta do your due diligence and craft your discounts and holdbacks to cover the inevitable losses. In that market if they get 45 days past due you better be hookin your collateral and minimizing your damage because they ain't gonna catch back up. The new players under bidding you can really fuck up the market.

[mavs>spurs]

it's crazy something like 60% of americans now fall into subprime LOL, yup, better bookout those vehicles good too, so you know exactly what you're getting back if u have to repo it and what your losses are going to look like

[Wild Cobra]

:lmao right, cause 8 years of Bush and his right wing policies had the stock market roling when he left office.

"Maybe the dow has doubled since Obama took office, but it would have maybe TRIPLED if we elected someone who had the same policies as Bush had!"
The democrats took control of congress after the 2006 elections, and scared the shit out of investors by what they said they would do.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

The democrats took control of congress after the 2006 elections, and scared the shit out of investors by what they said they would do.

What did they say they would do?

Be specific.

[Wild Cobra]

The ^DJI was sitting at about 11K when the Y2K bubble popped, and dropped to about 8K with 911 helping. It then increased to the 14K level in 2007, which took a quick dive from all the liberal fear mongering as they made aggressive statements against business. My point is that we should have ever dropped to below 7K. I'll bet if the democrats didn't take congress in 2006, we wouldn't have dropped below 12k, and would be sitting at higher than 16k now.

[Wild Cobra]

What did they say they would do?

Be specific.
LOL... Acting like Chump... Be specific...

Like they always do. Talk about more regulations and taxes.

[Nbadan]

The ^DJI was sitting at about 11K when the Y2K bubble popped, and dropped to about 8K with 911 helping. It then increased to the 14K level in 2007, which took a quick dive from all the liberal fear mongering as they made aggressive statements against business. My point is that we should have ever dropped to below 7K. I'll bet if the democrats didn't take congress in 2006, we wouldn't have dropped below 12k, and would be sitting at higher than 16k now.

Woulda, couilda, shoulda...no results, just projections...but yet here we are with Obama...

[Wild Cobra]

Woulda, couilda, shoulda...no results, just projections...but yet here we are with Obama...
It should have never taken so long.

[Blake]

are you talking about auto????

Home

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

LOL... Acting like Chump... Be specific...

Like they always do. Talk about more regulations and taxes.

:lmao so the market took the most historic nose dive since the great depression because Democrats talked about more regulations and taxes?

[Nbadan]

It should have never taken so long.

Or, it could have taken longer.....cup is half full

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

The ^DJI was sitting at about 11K when the Y2K bubble popped, and dropped to about 8K with 911 helping. It then increased to the 14K level in 2007, which took a quick dive from all the liberal fear mongering as they made aggressive statements against business. My point is that we should have ever dropped to below 7K. I'll bet if the democrats didn't take congress in 2006, we wouldn't have dropped below 12k, and would be sitting at higher than 16k now.
:lol so whether or not you'll admit it, you're saying Democrats taking congress in 2006 is what caused the housing bubble burst and the global financial crisis.

It also doesn't make sense that the market would have continued to go up in 2007 if Democrats taking control of congress in 2006 was such a scary prospect that doomed the economy.

[Wild Cobra]

:lol so whether or not you'll admit it, you're saying Democrats taking congress in 2006 is what caused the housing bubble burst and the global financial crisis.
Presumptuous, are you...

Why do you think the housing bubble had any significant effect on the Dow? Were these large corporations that the Dow indicator is based off on investing in real estate? If so, that's new to me.

You are also a forgetful shit. Republicans were warning about the housing bubble in 2003 or earlier. Kept getting slapped down by the democrats and their friends in the media.


It also doesn't make sense that the market would have continued to go up in 2007 if Democrats taking control of congress in 2006 was such a scary prospect that doomed the economy.

Do you know what momentum is? Elected in 2006, took office in 2007, and it takes time for any legislation to get passed and signed. Then there was the bailout. What a killer of stocks.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

Presumptuous, are you...

Why do you think the housing bubble had any significant effect on the Dow? Were these large corporations that the Dow indicator is based off on investing in real estate? If so, that's new to me.
:lmao so large corporations weren't affected by the housing bubble and the global financial crisis?


You are also a forgetful shit. Republicans were warning about the housing bubble in 2003 or earlier. Kept getting slapped down by the democrats and their friends in the media.
I'm gonna go out on a limb and say you aren't gonna provide specific examples of this either.


Do you know what momentum is? Elected in 2006, took office in 2007, and it takes time for any legislation to get passed and signed. Then there was the bailout. What a killer of stocks.
Now you're changing your theory because you originally said it was their mere talk that scared business, not their actual legislation.

If it was legislation and not talk, what specific legislation caused it?

[CosmicCowboy]

WC, you might want to stop before you dig in too deep. There is no verifiable cause/effect on stock market up/down vs. what political party controls the presidency or congress. Blaming the down on the Democrats is just as ignorant as Obama and the democrats blaming it all on Bush.

[Wild Cobra]

WC, you might want to stop before you dig in too deep. There is no verifiable cause/effect on stock market up/down vs. what political party controls the presidency or congress. Blaming the down on the Democrats is just as ignorant as them blaming it on Bush.
True, but it's fun to watch the reactions.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

True, but it's fun to watch the reactions.

:lol "I was deliberately saying retarded shit to get reactions!"

[Wild Cobra]

Now you're changing your theory because you originally said it was their mere talk that scared business, not their actual legislation.

If it was legislation and not talk, what specific legislation caused it?
I never said it was legislation. You effectively asked why the effect wasn't immediate. I pointed out that it takes time to get new legislation through. The democrats never stopped talking about taxing business more, and later it became apparent they wouldn't get such legislation passed.

[Wild Cobra]

:lol "I was deliberately saying retarded shit to get reactions!"
The truth lies somewhere in the middle.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

I never said it was legislation. You effectively asked why the effect wasn't immediate. I pointed out that it takes time to get new legislation through. The democrats never stopped talking about taxing business more, and later it became apparent they wouldn't get such legislation passed.

Sooooooooo then why did the markets crash if it became apparent they wouldn't get any legislation passed? You make no sense at all.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

The truth lies somewhere in the middle.

Not really.

[Wild Cobra]

Sooooooooo then why did the markets crash if it became apparent they wouldn't get any legislation passed? You make no sense at all.
I'm sorry if you don't follow my explanation. It didn't take long at all, after the democrats took control of congress. Before the housing crisis, the Dow already took a 900+ hit, from 7/9/07 to 8/13/07. The bubble didn't hit till late August or early September. I will not say the housing bubble didn't have any effect on the ^DJI, but it was already getting ready to fall. The scare probably complicated things, and many people lost money to contribute into the economy, but this money was being flipped like houses and effectively not driving stock prices anyway, for some time.

Really... Look at everything the democrats said they were going to do to evil business.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

Really... Look at everything the democrats said they were going to do to evil business.
But couldn't do because you just said it became apparent they couldn't get any legislation passed...

You still haven't provided any specific example of what they said they would do.

[CosmicCowboy]

:lol "I was deliberately saying retarded shit to get reactions!"

Thats ALMOST as retarded as people blaming the recession on Bush.

[Wild Cobra]

But couldn't do because you just said it became apparent they couldn't get any legislation passed...

You still haven't provided any specific example of what they said they would do.
Consider this.

Do you prepare for a disaster you think is coming, or do you wait for it?

If you have assets that you believe will be diminished by proposed changes, do you change the way you secure your assets before the changes, or do you let the changes destroy what you have?

[Wild Cobra]

You still haven't provided any specific example of what they said they would do.
I don't have an eidetic memory. Do you? Are you going to say the liberals said nothing that caused fear in the markets? They said dozens of things. You can look the specifics up as easily as I, and if you are going to act as if none of it did occur, then you are in denial.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

Thats ALMOST as retarded as people blaming the recession on Bush.


What do you blame the recession on?

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

I don't have an eidetic memory. Do you? Are you going to say the liberals said nothing that caused fear in the markets? They said dozens of things. You can look the specifics up as easily as I, and if you are going to act as if none of it did occur, then you are in denial.

I didn't make any claim either way. you did and can't back it up with real examples.

[boutons_deux]

Thats ALMOST as retarded as people blaming the recession on Bush.

dubya's WH was petitioned by 19 states to shutdown predatory/sub-prime lending. dubya's politicized OCC denied the petition, to keep the destructive housing bubble going and the toxic shitty loans rolling in.

[CosmicCowboy]

What do you blame the recession on?

We have booms and we have recessions. We have bubbles and we have bursting bubbles. Shit happens.

Trying to make a case for a cause/effect relationship with who is President is monumentally Boutonesque stupid.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

We have booms and we have recessions. We have bubbles and we have bursting bubbles. Shit happens.

Trying to make a case for a cause/effect relationship with who is President is monumentally Boutonesque stupid.

Trying to make a cause/effect relationship based off the president's mere political party is stupid, pointing to specific policy that's directly related to the crash isn't exactly stupid.

It wasn't just Bush, it was 30 years of neo-liberal deregulation from Reagan, Clinton and Bush. Bush was the guy who took the neo-liberalism too far though.

[boutons_deux]

We have booms and we have recessions. We have bubbles and we have bursting bubbles. Shit happens.

Trying to make a case for a cause/effect relationship with who is President is monumentally Boutonesque stupid.

Repugs mismanaged the economy from 2001 to 2008, along with their general willful misgovernance.

They could have recognized and mitigated the housing/credit bubble. They didn't and left Barry a mega-ton of stinking shit and the worst, continuing recession in 80 years.

What's monumentally stupid is saying the Repugs (and VRWC policies) are completely innocent, blameless, and that capitalism's inherent, repeated, unpreventable economic instabilities are just innocent "shit happens"

[Wild Cobra]

Repugs mismanaged the economy from 2001 to 2008, along with their general willful misgovernance.

They could have recognized and mitigated the housing/credit bubble. They didn't and left Barry a mega-ton of stinking shit and the worst, continuing recession in 80 years.

What's monumentally stupid is saying the Repugs (and VRWC policies) are completely innocent, blameless, and that capitalism's inherent, repeated, unpreventable economic instabilities are just innocent "shit happens"
How much does the DNC pay you anyway?

[CosmicCowboy]

Repugs mismanaged the economy from 2001 to 2008, along with their general willful misgovernance.

They could have recognized and mitigated the housing/credit bubble. They didn't and left Barry a mega-ton of stinking shit and the worst, continuing recession in 80 years.

What's monumentally stupid is saying the Repugs (and VRWC policies) are completely innocent, blameless, and that capitalism's inherent, repeated, unpreventable economic instabilities are just innocent "shit happens"

Thinking one political party can manage/mismanage an economy is monumentally stupid.

/thread

[CosmicCowboy]

It's only been 100 years since England was the mover/shaker of the world.

The US is on the same path of inevitable decline.

Too many Boutons and not enough Cosmiccowboys.

[Blake]

...not enough Cosmiccowboys.

:lmao