Best choker in NBA history

[Arnold Toht]

tbh....?

[midnightpulp]

Karl Malone
























































































Everyone else.

[Brunodf]

Malone and isn't even close, it's a joke this guy be in the top 50 players of all time.

[midnightpulp]

But if Parker has a poor series that leads to a first round upset, he'll definitely propel himself up to 2nd all-time.

[TDMVPDPOY]

wheres parker? his choked in more series then any of teh idiots above

[whitemamba]

But if Parker has a poor series that leads to a first round upset, he'll definitely propel himself up to 2nd all-time.

at least that little french baguette won something, malone never got it done.

[Venti Quattro]

Spree and it ain't even close.

[midnightpulp]

at least that little french baguette won something, malone never got it done.

On the coattails of Duncan and Manu (and Speedy Claxton :lol).

And his '07 Finals MVP was beyond a joke, since he was matched up Boobie Gibson, and the Cavs were terrible at stopping quick point guards.

[TDMVPDPOY]

how come kobe aint on the lists?

he choke so many finals elimination games and the colorado incident and snitching....

[TDMVPDPOY]

On the coattails of Duncan and Manu (and Speedy Claxton :lol).

And his '07 Finals MVP was beyond a joke, since he was matched up Boobie Gibson, and the Cavs were terrible at stopping quick point guards.

dont forget beno udrih who bailed his ass out everytime the spurs played the suns...fkn clown was pathetic couldnt even do anything about nash PNR...fkn pathetic

[whitemamba]

On the coattails of Duncan and Manu (and Speedy Claxton :lol).

And his '07 Finals MVP was beyond a joke, since he was matched up Boobie Gibson, and the Cavs were terrible at stopping quick point guards.



1
Tony Parker (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/parketo01.html)
24
4
151
42
74
4
7
10
19
3
17
20
13
3
0
12
5
98
.568
.571
.526
37.8
24.5
5.0
3.3
0.8
0.0


2
Tim Duncan (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/d/duncati01.html)
30
4
149
29
65
0
0
15
24
16
30
46
15
5
9
11
13
73
.446

.625
37.3
18.3
11.5
3.8
1.3
2.3


3
Manu Ginobili (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/g/ginobma01.html)
29
4
117
18
49
10
23
25
30
1
22
23
10
5
0
9
15
71
.367
.435
.833
29.3
17.8
5.8
2.5
1.3
0.0



your a stats guy right.. now tell me, how is not deserving on finals MVP.. putting up the most points, highest percentage from 3 as well as inside the arch, and 3 dimes a game? according to stats looks like he carried them

[Venti Quattro]

Didn't Parker always torch the Suns. At least that was what I thought.

[Juggity]

Parker choked in the early rounds a few times, but let's not kid ourselves. His heroics in 2007 are probably more impressive by themselves than the entire career playoffs oeuvre of KM.

[TDMVPDPOY]

Didn't Parker always torch the Suns. At least that was what I thought.

nah he never torched the suns, it was mainly him and nash trading baskets above their seasonal avgs, it was beno who stop nash from doing any damage

it also helps this clown was hiding behind or being overshadowed everytime ginoboli was having his high efficiency games against the suns...

[DeadlyDynasty]

Combine college and pros and Chris Webber wins in a landslide

[TDMVPDPOY]

Parker choked in the early rounds a few times, but let's not kid ourselves. His heroics in 2007 are probably more impressive by themselves than the entire career playoffs oeuvre of KM.

cmon man 07 first 3 rounds he did bullshit, and benefited playing against a rookie scrub who had no business starting against him.....look at gibson back then and today, dude is still a fkn scrub

[Brunodf]

1
Tony Parker (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/parketo01.html)
24
4
151
42
74
4
7
10
19
3
17
20
13
3
0
12
5
98
.568
.571
.526
37.8
24.5
5.0
3.3
0.8
0.0


2
Tim Duncan (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/d/duncati01.html)
30
4
149
29
65
0
0
15
24
16
30
46
15
5
9
11
13
73
.446

.625
37.3
18.3
11.5
3.8
1.3
2.3


3
Manu Ginobili (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/g/ginobma01.html)
29
4
117
18
49
10
23
25
30
1
22
23
10
5
0
9
15
71
.367
.435
.833
29.3
17.8
5.8
2.5
1.3
0.0



your a stats guy right.. now tell me, how is not deserving on finals MVP.. putting up the most points, highest percentage from 3 as well as inside the arch, and 3 dimes a game? according to stats looks like he carried them
Just offensive stats there, both TD/Bowen were better than Tony in that series

[whitemamba]

Just offensive stats there, both TD/Bowen were better than Tony in that series

your telling me if you take parker out of that line up, they still win?

[DeadlyDynasty]

your telling me if you take parker out of that line up, they still win?
Not only do they still win, they still sweep

[Brunodf]

your telling me if you take parker out of that line up, they still win?
No, i am telling that TD/Bowen were more important to the team.

[whitemamba]

No, i am telling that TD/Bowen were more important to the team.

but we are talking about the effectiveness of tony parker as an offensive player and how much he contributed in the finals.

[midnightpulp]

1
Tony Parker (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/parketo01.html)
24
4
151
42
74
4
7
10
19
3
17
20
13
3
0
12
5
98
.568
.571
.526
37.8
24.5
5.0
3.3
0.8
0.0


2
Tim Duncan (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/d/duncati01.html)
30
4
149
29
65
0
0
15
24
16
30
46
15
5
9
11
13
73
.446

.625
37.3
18.3
11.5
3.8
1.3
2.3


3
Manu Ginobili (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/g/ginobma01.html)
29
4
117
18
49
10
23
25
30
1
22
23
10
5
0
9
15
71
.367
.435
.833
29.3
17.8
5.8
2.5
1.3
0.0



your a stats guy right.. now tell me, how is not deserving on finals MVP.. putting up the most points, highest percentage from 3 as well as inside the arch, and 3 dimes a game? according to stats looks like he carried them

I'm not arguing he didn't play well. I'm arguing that the reason he played well was because he was defended by one of the worst defensive PGs in the league against a team that, although solid overall defensively, had major trouble stopping quick PGs. Going into that series, we knew Duncan in the low post (with Sideshow and Big Z down there) would meet some resistance and that Manu might have a tough series since he would be guarded by Lebron/Pavolic/Snow, all decent defenders at the time. So the matchup to exploit was Parker vs. Boobie/Damon Jones (another terrible defender).

Besides that, the Cavs were so completely overmatched, it's not like Parker "willed" the team to victory in a hard fought series. The Spurs win that series with Derek Fisher at PG. It'd probably take them 6 games, but they win it nonetheless.

[TDMVPDPOY]

your telling me if you take parker out of that line up, they still win?

still had beno and barry on the bench...

instead they got rid of the pg who was very good in the spurs system, wasting 7 years worth of draft picks looking for a backup pg...lol fail

[whitemamba]

I'm not arguing he didn't play well. I'm arguing that the reason he played well was because he was defended by one of the worst defensive PGs in the league against a team that, although solid overall defensively, had major trouble stopping quick PGs. Going into that series, we knew Duncan in the low post (with Sideshow and Big Z down there) would meet some resistance and that Manu might have a tough series since he would be guarded by Lebron/Pavolic/Snow, all decent defenders at the time. So the matchup to exploit was Parker vs. Boobie.

Besides that, the Cavs were so completely overmatched, it's not like Parker "willed" the team to victory in a hard fought series. The Spurs win that series with Derek Fisher at PG. It'd probably take them 6 games, but they win it nonetheless.

what was his PER ?

[DeadlyDynasty]

Honorable Chokage also needs to be bestowed on the 1998-2000 Miami Heat teams

[Brunodf]

but we are talking about the effectiveness of tony parker as an offensive player and how much he contributed in the finals.


tell me, how is not deserving on finals MVP..
...I told you how.

[TDMVPDPOY]

what was his PER ?

cmon man why u bring up PER? per is useless if superior player is beasting dleague player

[whitemamba]

so who should get the finals MVP in 07?

[whitemamba]

cmon man why u bring up PER? per is useless if superior player is beasting dleague player

no shit, its a joke. mid loved PER

[TDMVPDPOY]

tp is overrated player for all the spurs championship runs, dude is nothing more than a scrub at the right place, right time

[midnightpulp]

what was his PER ?

No clue. Probably 25ish, which is outstanding for a Finals series.

But again, that's not my central point. Parker played great, but the reason he played great was because he enjoyed a huge matchup advantage. And him playing well in that series doesn't absolve him of his other playoff failings, most notably against the Lakers in '04, Memphis in '11, and OKC last year after the Thabo switch.

[whitemamba]

tp is overrated player for all the spurs championship runs, dude is nothing more than a scrub at the right place, right time

making a run trying to become BNSF?

[Killakobe81]

Karl Malone






















































































Everyone else.

Gotta agree with Mid here and the thing is sometimes he was very good I remember one game in the 7 game series vs. the Lakers in 1988 (IIRC) where he was very good but no one expected him to win ...whne he was SUPPOSED to win he came up small and Stockton bailed him out in the clutch. still a great player but sooo NOT clutch.

Peja choked hard but he is a limited player ...I love Ewing but he had some huge fails as well ...never saw Wilt ... Parker like Ewing has had great and not so great moments ...

[whitemamba]

No clue. Probably 25ish, which is outstanding for a Finals series.

But again, that's my central point. Parker played great, but the reason he played great was because he enjoyed a huge matchup advantage. And him playing well in that series doesn't absolve him of his other playoff failings, most notably against the Lakers in '04, Memphis in '11, and OKC last year after the Thabo switch.

dude who the fuck cares who your playing against.. its about winning that is it, i dont know why you guys look so deep into it and cant just appreciate it, especially since you probably wont see it again for a while. This non sense about playing against scrubs makes you a worse player is funny to me. if your in the NBA you can hoop, it doesn't matter who you get it done against, as long as it gets done.

[midnightpulp]

so who should get the finals MVP in 07?

Probably Duncan since he locked down the paint and didn't let Lebron have his own personal slam dunk contest, as he did against the Pistons, who themselves had a very formidable frontline. Duncan also led the team in boards and assists (and I think actually had a higher PER than Parker for the series, if I recall).

[TDMVPDPOY]

making a run trying to become BNSF?

already banned from posting upstairs for 2 months now...

clowns upstairs cant accept the truth, so the truth needs to be spread at a faster rate

[Brunodf]

so who should get the finals MVP in 07?
TD obviously...Bowen also deserved it more than Tony.

[whitemamba]

just felt like the attention was all on tony that series.

[UZER]

Malone. Don't forget he got stripped in the post from behind by MJ and fell to the ground without being touched, which turned into the infamous Game 6 shot.

Dude was the greatest fake great player of all time.

[midnightpulp]

dude who the fuck cares who your playing against.. its about winning that is it, i dont know why you guys look so deep into it and cant just appreciate it, especially since you probably wont see it again for a while. This non sense about playing against scrubs makes you a worse player is funny to me. if your in the NBA you can hoop, it doesn't matter who you get it done against, as long as it gets done.

You're kind of going off on a tangent here.

Us Spurs fans are trying to explain to you why we don't appreciate Parker at the level some non-Spurs fans/Parker homers think he deserves. He's a very good player and one of the top PGs in the league year after year, but he always teases us as if he's on the verge of a superstar breakout, only to quickly regress back into very good player (to sometimes mediocre) status when the pressure's on. It's frustrating for us because since Duncan is no longer a superstar capable of willing a team to a playoff series victory over a contending team, we need Parker to go above and beyond, as great players do. And he falls short, every time.

Maybe those are unfair expectations for a 6' 2" point guard, but it is what it is.

[TDMVPDPOY]

just felt like the attention was all on tony that series.

i felt he did jackshit all game, just another stat padder who wasnt flashy

while you see or hear duncan or bowen making plays and stops, but never got the credit they deserved in that series against the cavs, cause it was all about stopping lebron, not padding stat against a dleague....

even the backup pgs on the roster wouldve made gibson their bitch if they were starting...

[TDMVPDPOY]

You're kind of going off on a tangent here.

Us Spurs fans are trying to explain to you why we don't appreciate Parker at the level some non-Spurs fans/Parker homers think he deserves. He's a very good player and one of the top PGs in the league year after year, but he always teases us with as if he's on the verge of a superstar breakout, only to quickly regress back into very good player (to sometimes mediocre) status when the pressure's on. It's frustrating for us because since Duncan is no longer a superstar capable of willing a team to a playoff series victory over a contending team, we need Parker to go above and beyond, as great players do. And he falls short, every time.

Maybe those are unfair expectations for a 6' 2" point guard, but it is what it is.

dude he benefits playing on a winning team, if he was on a shit team posting those sort of stats, he just be another pg in the league....

[Sean Cagney]

Didn't Parker always torch the Suns. At least that was what I thought.

Hell yeah he did! LOL he used to roast Nash out there. He would shit the bed against a Marbury, Kidd, Billups etc. but he would roast Nash.

[whitemamba]

You're kind of going off on a tangent here.

Us Spurs fans are trying to explain to you why we don't appreciate Parker at the level some non-Spurs fans/Parker homers think he deserves. He's a very good player and one of the top PGs in the league year after year, but he always teases us as if he's on the verge of a superstar breakout, only to quickly regress back into very good player (to sometimes mediocre) status when the pressure's on. It's frustrating for us because since Duncan is no longer a superstar capable of willing a team to a playoff series victory over a contending team, we need Parker to go above and beyond, as great players do. And he falls short, every time.

Maybe those are unfair expectations for a 6' 2" point guard, but it is what it is.

not going of on a tangent, but i just think that you guys are over analyzing the game of basketball, and looking way too much into it.. at the end of the day we all know what its about.

[midnightpulp]

not going of on a tangent, but i just think that you guys are over analyzing the game of basketball, and looking way too much into it.. at the end of the day we all know what its about.

What's it about?

Furthermore, a message board is precisely the forum in which you should "over-analyze" basketball. It would be totally boring if we just regurgitated media/ESPN platitudes all the time. If anything, you'll find more accurate/cutting edge commentary on the game from fans on messageboards than you ever will from the talking heads on ESPN, who are forced to dumb down their opinions and filter them through political correctness.

[TDMVPDPOY]

not going of on a tangent, but i just think that you guys are over analyzing the game of basketball, and looking way too much into it.. at the end of the day we all know what its about.

the frogs upstairs overhyping tp9 outplaying a scrub, like how the suns are still gloating about the series amare posting personal bests avgs against the spurs....

thats how lame it is, it is what it is...

[whitemamba]

What's it about?

Furthermore, a message board is precisely the forum in which you should "over-analyze" basketball. It would be totally boring if we just regurgitated media/ESPN platitudes all the time. If anything, you'll find more accurate/cutting edge commentary on the game from fans on messageboards than you ever will from the talking heads on ESPN, who are forced to dumb down their opinions and filter them through political correctness.

well maybe im just more competitive than you.. its about winning and nothing else, not how many times this guy misses or this guys rebounds. All part of the game yes, but all will be forgotten if you dont win.

So many shitty posters like "myself" flood this place with their opinons.

And thats what a purpose of a message board if you ask me, to discuss your thoughts and opinons on the game, not to sit there and pull every stat in the book to try to prove that this player "sucks." Rather than just enjoy it.

[Brunodf]

just felt like the attention was all on tony that series.
:lolGood one, Duncan was the one fighting vs two above average defenders in Varejao/Zydrunas+double/triple teams

[whitemamba]

:lolGood one, Duncan was the one fighting vs two above average defenders in Varejao/Zydrunas+double/triple teams

i meant from the media/fans. like i could give a fuck about either of them. good for them though, at least they cemented them selves somehow.

[BatManu20]

Parker is clearly injured and only an idiot can't see that. This poll is dog sh*t. 0/10

[UZER]

You're kind of going off on a tangent here.

Us Spurs fans are trying to explain to you why we don't appreciate Parker at the level some non-Spurs fans/Parker homers think he deserves. He's a very good player and one of the top PGs in the league year after year, but he always teases us as if he's on the verge of a superstar breakout, only to quickly regress back into very good player (to sometimes mediocre) status when the pressure's on. It's frustrating for us because since Duncan is no longer a superstar capable of willing a team to a playoff series victory over a contending team, we need Parker to go above and beyond, as great players do. And he falls short, every time.

Maybe those are unfair expectations for a 6' 2" point guard, but it is what it is.

And Pop handing the reins over to him to run a pt guard driven system that he himself has beaten over and over (PHX) is the one of the dumbest moves he's ever made. We have become the Phoenix Suns over the last 5 years....regular season champs, fancy team passing with no rings to show for it.

[HI-FI]

And Pop handing the reins over to him to run a pt guard driven system that he himself has beaten over and over (PHX) is the one of the dumbest moves he's ever made. We have become the Phoenix Suns over the last 5 years....regular season champs, fancy team passing with no rings to show for it.

except prime Nash is better than prime Parker imo. Parker develops the worst case of tunnel vision for a so called elite player. If he gets frustrated, he just goes into reckless penetration mode.

but i agree with your overall point.


and whitemamba, TDMVPDPOY was debolded and banned upstairs for dropping too many truth bombs, meanwhile I think Thread is still allowed to post up there. shit makes no sense.

[midnightpulp]

well maybe im just more competitive than you.. its about winning and nothing else, not how many times this guy misses or this guys rebounds. All part of the game yes, but all will be forgotten if you dont win.

So many shitty posters like "myself" flood this place with their opinons.

And thats what a purpose of a message board if you ask me, to discuss your thoughts and opinons on the game, not to sit there and pull every stat in the book to try to prove that this player "sucks." Rather than just enjoy it.

How many rebounds/shots a player grabs/misses has a causal relationship with the outcome of the game, so they deserve to be an area of focus.

When Manu has one of his shitty 4-15, 6 TO games, but makes a clutch game winning play, I don't jizz myself and give him credit for winning the game. I tell myself that if he played better, the Spurs wouldn't have been in that situation to begin with. Reducing the game to singular moments is being results oriented.

[UZER]

except prime Nash is better than prime Parker imo. Parker develops the worst case of tunnel vision for a so called elite player. If he gets frustrated, he just goes into reckless penetration mode.

but i agree with your overall point.


and whitemamba, TDMVPDPOY was debolded and banned upstairs for dropping too many truth bombs, meanwhile I think Thread is still allowed to post up there. shit makes no sense.

No argument from me. Which makes Pops decision even more :lol.

[whitemamba]

How many rebounds/shots a player grabs/misses has a causal relationship with the outcome of the game, so they deserve to be an area of focus.

When Manu has one of his shitty 4-15, 6 TO games, but makes a clutch game winning play, I don't jizz myself and give him credit for winning the game. I tell myself that if he played better, the Spurs wouldn't have been in that situation to begin with. Reducing the game to singular moments is being results oriented.

o yeah im sure alot, but thats part of the game.. its about the end result, thats all im saying.

[Thread]

Parker is clearly injured and only an idiot can't see that. This poll is dog sh*t. 0/10

I have half a mind to cite you as a pussy & asshole for playing the injury card, but, I'll go this-a-way just for a chickenshit like you:::Will he play good and not be injured, or, not be injured and play good? Pick one, motherfucker, because you ain't getting both.

Chop/chop.

[midnightpulp]

I have half a mind to cite you as a pussy & asshole for playing the injury card, but, I'll go this-a-way just for a chickenshit like you:::Will he play good and not be injured, or, not be injured and play good? Pick one, motherfucker, because you ain't getting both.

Chop/chop.

Parker's fine. He's just got the Jerry West gene.

Like when West stained his BVDs seeing those green jerseys, Parker similarly loses bodily function at the sight of Purple 'n Gold.

[Latarian Milton]

chris webber ain't a choker but he was one of the best players in NBA history who retired w/o any rings imho. injuries and rigged reffing cost him the title in 02

[spurraider21]

Parker's fine. He's just got the Jerry West gene.

Like when West stained his BVDs seeing those green jerseys, Parker similarly loses bodily function at the sight of Purple 'n Gold.
West actually played pretty damn well in a majority of those finals series. Both he and Baylor put up monster numbers. Now I can't say I sat and watched every finals game from the 60's, so I can't comment on the context of his stats, but they're pretty fuckin impressive. Those celtics teams were stacked as fuck. People act like it was bill Russell and the pussycats, but Sam jones, Hondo, heinsohn, Cousy are each all time greats as well

[Thread]

chris webber ain't a choker but he was one of the best players in NBA history who retired w/o any rings imho. injuries and rigged reffing cost him the title in 02

No discipline to focus. All he had to do was face guard Horry. But, he quickly got bored.

[da_suns_fan]

Chris Webber.

[Venti Quattro]

Chris Webber is one of the unluckiest star athletes when it comes to championships, but usually it comes from his own stupidity.

[Halberto]

I'm not arguing he didn't play well. I'm arguing that the reason he played well was because he was defended by one of the worst defensive PGs in the league against a team that, although solid overall defensively, had major trouble stopping quick PGs. Going into that series, we knew Duncan in the low post (with Sideshow and Big Z down there) would meet some resistance and that Manu might have a tough series since he would be guarded by Lebron/Pavolic/Snow, all decent defenders at the time. So the matchup to exploit was Parker vs. Boobie/Damon Jones (another terrible defender).

Besides that, the Cavs were so completely overmatched, it's not like Parker "willed" the team to victory in a hard fought series. The Spurs win that series with Derek Fisher at PG. It'd probably take them 6 games, but they win it nonetheless.

After reading this argument you've actually convinced me Parker did deserve it. Parker was the most effective weapon and the Spurs used him to exploit the Cavs weaknesses.

[da_suns_fan]

Chris Webber is one of the unluckiest star athletes when it comes to championships, but usually it comes from his own stupidity.

When he deferred to teammates in a game 7 overtime in the western conference finals, i dont call that "stupidity". I call that "chicken shit".

[Phillip]

After reading this argument you've actually convinced me Parker did deserve it. Parker was the most effective weapon and the Spurs used him to exploit the Cavs weaknesses.

Technically, he deserved it since he had the best looking performance.

But in terms of the words "most valuable player", he certainly wasn't. Timmy was, and still is, the most valuable player for the Spurs.

[Phillip]

When he deferred to teammates in a game 7 overtime in the western conference finals, i dont call that "stupidity". I call that "chicken shit".

i don't think he really deferred, as opposed to being tired as hell from being stupid by trying to guard shaq and getting himself worn out.