Senator Says Boston Attack Should Factor in Immigration Debate

[ElNono]

WASHINGTON — A senior Republican senator said Friday that the approaching political debate about an immigration overhaul should take into account the revelation that the suspects in the Boston Marathon bombing had apparently emigrated to the United States from the former Soviet Union.

Senator Charles E. Grassley of Iowa, the most senior Republican on the Senate Judiciary Committee, opened a hearing on immigration legislation by stressing that the issue was important “particularly in light of all that’s happening in Massachusetts right now and over the last week.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/20/us/politics/senator-says-boston-bombing-should-be-factor-in-immigration-debate.html

[Drachen]

FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU UUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK This guy.

[CosmicCowboy]

Typical New York Times story.

I read the article three times and could find no reference to the Soviet Union from the Senator.

Considering this was the LEAD SENTENCE of the article you would think they could find a quote to back up the assertion.


A senior Republican senator said Friday that the approaching political debate about an immigration overhaul should take into account the revelation that the suspects in the Boston Marathon bombing had apparently emigrated to the United States from the former Soviet Union.

[Winehole23]

The quote's in the OP; the NYT's gloss hardly seems strained to me.

Grassley does seem to link the two.

[CosmicCowboy]

The quote's in the OP; the NYT's gloss hardly seems strained to me.

Grassley does seem to link the two.

But was it because they were immigrants from the old Soviet Union or was he being PC and just not referring to the fact that they were radicalized muslims?

[Winehole23]

dunno.

we don't know much about their beef -- Chechen nationalism could have just as much to do with it.

have you got a source on them being radicalized Muslims or that being the motive for the bombing?

[CosmicCowboy]

dunno.

we don't know much about their beef -- Chechen nationalism could have just as much to do with it.

have you got a source on them being radicalized Muslims or that being the motive for the bombing?

Oh Please. Killing Americans to further the cause of Chechen Nationalism? What is the relationship between the two? You are better than that. Benign, Peace loving Muslims don't kill and maim hundreds of people with backpack IED's.

[ElNono]

Typical New York Times story.

I read the article three times and could find no reference to the Soviet Union from the Senator.

My impression was that the senator wasn't trying to link it to the Soviet Union, but the fact that they were immigrants.

I don't think the article was pinning this on the Soviet Union either.

[spursncowboys]

dunno.

we don't know much about their beef -- Chechen nationalism could have just as much to do with it.

have you got a source on them being radicalized Muslims or that being the motive for the bombing?
Pretty racist for you to assume they would be into chechen nationalism because they are chechen.

[CosmicCowboy]

My impression was that the senator wasn't trying to link it to the Soviet Union, but the fact that they were immigrants.

I don't think the article was pinning this on the Soviet Union either.

The ugly fact is that the only three times we have been hit hard by Islamic backed terrorism in the US it has been by Islamic immigrants that have come into the country through our immigration system. I don't have a clue how you would fix it without discriminating against all muslims but it is what it is.

oops...forgot about Ft. Hood....never mind... that right. Obama called Ft. Hood "workplace violence". LOLOLOLOL

[Winehole23]

Oh Please. Killing Americans to further the cause of Chechen Nationalism? What is the relationship between the two? You are better than that. Benign, Peace loving Muslims don't kill and maim hundreds of people with backpack IED's.so, you've no got no source on that.

[Winehole23]

Pretty racist for you to assume they would be into chechen nationalism because they are chechen.I don't assume it, but it's no less plausible to me than the theory their religion motivated them.

[ElNono]

The ugly fact is that the only three times we have been hit hard by Islamic backed terrorism in the US it has been by Islamic immigrants that have come into the country through our immigration system. I don't have a clue how you would fix it without discriminating against all muslims but it is what it is.

oops...forgot about Ft. Hood....never mind... that right. Obama called Ft. Hood "workplace violence". LOLOLOLOL

I think that speaks for itself. maybe 20 guys total out of how many millions?

I don't know what you can really do about that. I would agree that our immigration system needs overhaul, and I don't particularly think the current leadership are qualified to do it.

[Drachen]

I don't assume it, but it's no less plausible to me than the theory their religion motivated them.

Hell, if the twitter account that they are saying is suspect2's is actually his (@j_tsar). This could be the result of a meth binge. A few days ago he was arguing with someone else between GoT and Breaking Bad and said something to the effect that he relates more to BB because "I like meth".

[DarrinS]

I don't assume it, but it's no less plausible to me than the theory their religion motivated them.

Go see the older brothers youtube account and see what he subscribed to.

[Winehole23]

there's connection to this crime on the perp's fb page?

[cheguevara]

The ugly fact is that the only three times we have been hit hard by Islamic backed terrorism in the US it has been by Islamic immigrants that have come into the country through our immigration system. I don't have a clue how you would fix it without discriminating against all muslims but it is what it is.

oops...forgot about Ft. Hood....never mind... that right. Obama called Ft. Hood "workplace violence". LOLOLOLOL

Even israel, a small state that discriminates muslims like crazy, gets bombed once in a while.

you can't stop this. Thinking discriminating is the solution to stop these attacks is silly. Plus there are millions of muslims already in the country and breeding millions more. People gonna have to learn to live with them someday like they learn to live with white supremacists and such folks.

[spursncowboys]

Even israel, a small state that discriminates muslims like crazy, gets bombed once in a while.

you can't stop this. Thinking discriminating is the solution to stop these attacks is silly. Plus there are millions of muslims already in the country and breeding millions more. People gonna have to learn to live with them someday like they learn to live with white supremacists and such folks.
The che we all know and love would advocate for rounding up all religious leaders and killing them, err reeducation.

[spursncowboys]

I don't assume it, but it's no less plausible to me than the theory their religion motivated them.
It was a joke buddy.

[cheguevara]

The che we all know and love would advocate for rounding up all religious leaders and killing them, err reeducation.

Oh hell yes. no doubt.

but that would put an end to all the wars in the Middle East and Islamic terrorism. And you know the Military Complex would detest that.

[spursncowboys]

But I'm pretty sure Che drank his hot tea pinkies up.

[CosmicCowboy]

so, you've no got no source on that.

:lmao

Wanna put some money on their motive? Iv'e got $100 that says It was Islamic Terrorism.

[cheguevara]

:lmao

Wanna put some money on their motive? Iv'e got $100 that says It was Islamic Terrorism.

1) thankfully US justice system does not go by odds, but by proof beyond reasonable doubt
2) I would have to know the exact requirements for defining "Islamic Terrorism". There is a great chance they could be 2 loser type kids with little religious ties just trying to be famous or "fit in".

[CosmicCowboy]

1) thankfully US justice system does not go by odds, but by proof beyond reasonable doubt
2) I would have to know the exact requirements for defining "Islamic Terrorism". There is a great chance they could be 2 loser type kids with little religious ties just trying to be famous or "fit in".

:lmao

They are muslim

They just set off two IED's that killed and maimed hundreds of Americans

Their social networking hints heavily at religious motivation

It's simple logic.

[cheguevara]

:lmao

They are muslim

They just set off two IED's that killed and maimed hundreds of Americans

Their social networking hints heavily at religious motivation

It's simple logic.

it's actually not so simple.

USA Patriot Act Federal Definition of Terrorism states that it is an act that is calculated to influence or affect the conduct of government by intimidation or coercion.

If these 2 loser kids just wanted to lash out, even if they had partly religious reasons, does not qualify them automatically as "islamic terrorists"

Was the DC Sniper defined as terrorist? Don't think so. He also was a muslim I believe.

[spursncowboys]

it's actually not so simple.

USA Patriot Act Federal Definition of Terrorism states that it is an act that is calculated to influence or affect the conduct of government by intimidation or coercion.

If these 2 loser kids just wanted to lash out, even if they had partly religious reasons, does not qualify them automatically as "islamic terrorists"

Was the DC Sniper defined as terrorist? Don't think so. He also was a muslim I believe.
You don't think the dc snipers were terrorists?

[cheguevara]

You don't think the dc snipers were terrorists?

did they perform an act that is calculated to influence of affect the conduct of government by intimidation or coercion?

[cheguevara]

:lmao just realized who qualifies for their own Federal Definition of Terrorist

what a great nation :cry

[Nbadan]

The wing-nut Islam nuttery begins...


Rep. Pete King (R-N.Y.) called for “increased surveillance” of Muslims on Friday, saying the Boston Marathon bombing suspects' links to Chechnya represented a “new front” in the war on terror.

“Police have to be in the community, they have to build up as many sources as they can, and they have to realize that the threat is coming from the Muslim community and increase surveillance there,” the chairman of the House subcommittee on Counterterrorism and Intelligence told National Review. “We can’t be bound by political correctness. I think we need more police and more surveillance in the communities where the threat is coming from.”

He went on to suggest that the two suspects' Chechen background and Tamerlan Tsarnaev's visit to Russia last year suggested increased radicalization of the Chechen community. The two brothers immigrated to the United States in 2001 from Kyrgyzstan, and the FBI has so far not released any evidence that they did not act alone.

“There’s never been any history of any threats emanating in this country from the Chechen community,” King told the Review. “So in a way this opens up a new front in the war.”

http://thehill.com/blogs/global-affairs/terrorism/295079-gop-lawmaker-calls-for-increased-surveillance-of-muslims-after-boston-bombings

[CosmicCowboy]

it's actually not so simple.

USA Patriot Act Federal Definition of Terrorism states that it is an act that is calculated to influence or affect the conduct of government by intimidation or coercion.

If these 2 loser kids just wanted to lash out, even if they had partly religious reasons, does not qualify them automatically as "islamic terrorists"

Was the DC Sniper defined as terrorist? Don't think so. He also was a muslim I believe.

My logic dictates that motive would be the defining line of what kind of terrorist they are. If you are prepared to accept that their (apparently radical) Islamic belief system was a motivating factor then how would you define it.

BTW, I think these kids were the manipulated tool and not the mastermind.

[Wild Cobra]

If these 2 loser kids just wanted to lash out, even if they had partly religious reasons, does not qualify them automatically as "islamic terrorists"

Well, considering the grade of explosives they had in their possessions, do you really want to stay open to that thought? They at least know someone connected.

[Wild Cobra]

My logic dictates that motive would be the defining line of what kind of terrorist they are. If you are prepared to accept that their (apparently radical) Islamic belief system was a motivating factor then how would you define it.

BTW, I think these kids were the manipulated tool and not the mastermind.
Probably true, but now Boutons, Dan, and a few others will claim the FBI gave them the stuff.

[2centsworth]

dunno.

we don't know much about their beef -- Chechen nationalism could have just as much to do with it.

have you got a source on them being radicalized Muslims or that being the motive for the bombing?

They were radicalized muslims.

[ElNono]

The problem is that there's a big distinction between your regular, average muslim and the radicalized variant.

There's millions of muslims in America. Asserting they're all potential terrerists is no different that asserting that every gun owner is a potential criminal.

It's just a broad generalization that makes no sense and doesn't solve any problem.

[2centsworth]

The problem is that there's a big distinction between your regular, average muslim and the radicalized variant.

There's millions of muslims in America. Asserting they're all potential terrerists is no different that asserting that every gun owner is a potential criminal.

It's just a broad generalization that makes no sense and doesn't solve any problem.
no one should make that assertion, but there is a faction of that religion known as islamic supremacy that murders in the name of Allah.

[ElNono]

no one should make that assertion, but there is a faction of that religion known as islamic supremacy that murders in the name of Allah.

This thread contains many examples of such assertion being made:


Benign, Peace loving Muslims don't kill and maim hundreds of people with backpack IED's.


I don't have a clue how you would fix it without discriminating against all muslims but it is what it is.


:lmao

They are muslim

They just set off two IED's that killed and maimed hundreds of Americans

Their social networking hints heavily at religious motivation

It's simple logic.


When you don't point out it's the radicalized faction that's the problem, you're putting everybody in the same bag.

[Warlord23]

Gotta side with CC and 2cw on this one. There's a very high probability that they did what they did because of religious fervor. That doesn't, however, mean that the senator who's linking this with immigration policy is correct. He's still an idiot, and he's probably saying this because he knows his base will lap it up.

All religion is misguided and illogical, but I have no problem saying that Islam is easily the most intolerant and damaging of them all.

[Warlord23]

Note that there are good reasons for why Islam is different from other religions. Islam is much younger than Judaism, Christianity, Hinduism, etc and is therefore comparable to Christianity of a few centuries ago in terms of intolerance, fanaticism and violence. Islam, more than any other religion, is linked with prolonged military aggression whereby Muslim rulers used faith as a tool to conquer and convert non-Muslim lands (Christians did this, but not as much and not as recently as Islam).

[Wild Cobra]

I've heard that sometimes the parents want a better life and love America, but troubled teens look for what they left behind, not knowing. It's hard enough being a teenager. Not making excuses, but I found this interesting:

link: Three Cheers for Ruslan Tsarniof (http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/346116/three-cheers-ruslan-tsarniof)

Has this video in it:

1PIRkMoEous

[2centsworth]

This thread contains many examples of such assertion being made:

When you don't point out it's the radicalized faction that's the problem, you're putting everybody in the same bag.

Fair enough. At least we can't be fooled with the Anti-Islam movie line anymore, well some can.

[Latarian Milton]

FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU UUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK This guy.
fuck you all immi-fucking-grants who came to this country shamelessly for all the welfare and opportunities it gives you, no matter illegally or not. most illegal immigrants are satisfied with their lives as long as they have some austere place to live in and some garbage food to eat. they might do crimes when they're so financially stressed they have to rob a retailor for a few hundred dollars in order to sustain their cheap lives, but no hell of way would you see or hear any mexican blow up a building or shoot random students for fun tbh

furthermore, legal fucking immigrants generally have higher social status than average americans and they always try to make as much influence on US politics as they possibly can, making it easier for even more immigrants to encroach on this country and eventually you fuckers will replace the strip-star banner with a flag that has 5 yellow stars in a red background in the sky of washington D.C.

while stupid americans are still patronizing wal-mart to impoverish their country even more...

[cheguevara]

My logic dictates that motive would be the defining line of what kind of terrorist they are. If you are prepared to accept that their (apparently radical) Islamic belief system was a motivating factor then how would you define it.

still, if they did not try to influence or affect government policy with their actions, then by Federal Definition, it's not terrorism



BTW, I think these kids were the manipulated tool and not the mastermind.

I said this long ago. If it is proven that they were used as puppets by a terrorist organization or even helped or trained, then this is most definitely terrorism.

[boutons_deux]

typical Iowa/rural Repug asshole, all bad faith, look-at-me-be-an-asshole, piss-on-govt, all the time

Iowa, 3M farmers :)

[BradLohaus]

Maybe the whole world shouldn't move in together. Looks like the guy who got carjacked had one of those "coexist" bumper stickers with all of the religious symbols on his car. Can't even LOL.

http://sultanknish.blogspot.com/2013/04/friday-afternoon-roundup-coexist.html

[Th'Pusher]

Maybe the whole world shouldn't move in together. Looks like the guy who got carjacked had one of those "coexist" bumper stickers with all of the religious symbols on his car. Can't even LOL.

http://sultanknish.blogspot.com/2013/04/friday-afternoon-roundup-coexist.html

Weird they let that guy live.

[Winehole23]

They were radicalized muslims.and you know that's the motive how?

[Winehole23]

not saying it isn't plausible, but how can we know at this point?

[Wild Cobra]

not saying it isn't plausible, but how can we know at this point?
I suppose it's just a common Muslin prank, they play on others?

[admiralsnackbar]

not saying it isn't plausible, but how can we know at this point?
You're right to point out we can't, but it's inevitable to want to sort out the flood of content the media has dunked us in, I reckon. Grassley sure seems to be banking on it. :lol

I'm noticing that while one pattern seems to be emerging from the various accounts (the prior FBI interview allegedly done at the behest of a foreign gov't worried the older brother was preparing to join a terrorist Muslim group on their soil, the alleged increasingly radicalized beliefs/behavior of the older brother and his mother, etc.) that points towards jihad Islam as being a factor of some sort, there seems to be a second tide of information emerging this morning (which may just be the left's way of trying to defuse racial tensions) suggesting this was a spree carried out by a "typical" sociopathic dyad.

As you say: who knows? Maybe it's both, and their pathology is tarted-up in religious faith like the DC Snipers or the Ft. Hood guy... and like them, these guys were fucked in the head in equal/higher proportion to their zealotry. Maybe its neither, and journalists are just processing the material through the lenses of 9/11 and Columbine. All's I know is that even without all the facts, I have trouble with the pure ideological radical angle, if only because the two didn't martyr themselves (what's the point of being in a radical Muslim death cult if not to be delivered to a better world for your "heroism?"). Further, the fact that they targeted an athletic event as opposed to a strategic infrastructural/symbolic target doesn't jibe with their being organized radical Muslims or politically motivated terrorist cells we've seen in the past.

[Dirk Oneanddoneski]

Maybe the whole world shouldn't move in together. Looks like the guy who got carjacked had one of those "coexist" bumper stickers with all of the religious symbols on his car. Can't even LOL.

http://sultanknish.blogspot.com/2013/04/friday-afternoon-roundup-coexist.html

''diversity is our strength'' :lmao

[Winehole23]

You're right to point out we can't, but it's inevitable to want to sort out the flood of content the media has dunked us in, I reckon.People want developing coverage of complex events to confirm simpleminded biases. Species of folly. Perhaps that's not avoidable either.

[admiralsnackbar]

People want developing coverage of complex events to confirm simpleminded biases. Species of folly. Perhaps that's not avoidable either.

Probably not... but then, confronting it is probably unavoidable, too. :lol

[2centsworth]

and you know that's the motive how?

ok. Can't help you see past those glasses.