Former Spur: Livio Jean-Charles

[Bruno]

http://www.asvelassociation.com/NEWS/ph/20111004163534dyn.jpg
Height: 6-9
Weight: 217 lbs
Birthday: 11/08/1993
Team: ASVEL (France)
Country: France

DraftExpress (http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Livio-Jean-Charles-6125/)
NBADraft (http://www.nbadraft.net/players/livio-jean-charles)

[Bruno]

27 points and 13 rebounds at the Nike Hoop Summit.

I watched him a handful of times in France he hasn't strike me as some kind of great prospect. I like the way he plays and he might be a very good role player but he just doesn't really have that upside you might want in a NBA prospect.

[stéphane]

You said it all Bruno, I saw him a couple times on TV and once live when he came in Beaublanc.

Really interesting as far as Pro A is concerned but does not have the upside you look for in that kind of profile as far as NBA is concerned.
I'm not even sure he should try to get to the NBA.

His assests would make him an average role player at best in the NBA whereas he could be a very good Euroleague player.

[jyra]

327417904121405440


La performance de Livio Jean-Charles (27 pts et 13 rbds) au Hoop Summit la semaine dernière n’est pas passée inaperçue.


Une simple belle prestation lors du traditionnel Hoop Summit à Portland peut vous faire passer un cap. C’est le cas pour Livio Jean-Charles.

Auteur d’un énorme match la semaine dernière, le jeune joueur Villeurbannais a beaucoup fait parler de lui depuis. Ce midi, ce dernier a annoncé qu’il se présenterait à la prochaine draft. Et il devrait être un peu plus surveillé par les chasseurs de têtes de NBA. Pierre Vincent nous a confié qu’un scout des San Antonio Spurs serait présent à l’entraînement de l’ASVEL lundi prochain pour observer Livio.

En attendant, les Villeurbannais seront au Paris-Levallois demain soir pour le compte de la 29ème journée de Pro A.

[Bruno]

The article also says that jean-Charles will enter in this draft.

Aside from what I've said about him earlier in this thread, the true question about him is his position. He is trying to transition from PF to SF and it might not be a that good idea. He doesn't at all for the moment the perimeter skills to play SF and his terrific Hoop Summit game was playing PF. He measured at 6'9" with a 7'2" wingspan and a 217 lbs weight. He has the legit size to play PF and just need to add a little weight.

Spurs could also ask Tony Parker his advice about him because he played with him during the lockout and follow very closely the ASVEL team where he is a minority owner and the vice president of basketball operations.

The scout could also have an eye on Edwin Jackson, a 89' born french SG in the Barbosa mold. He is having a great season and wants to play the SL to try his chance in the NBA.

[DesignatedT]

What's the biggest differences between this kid and Jateih?

[ace3g]

Jonathan Givony ‏@DraftExpress (https://twitter.com/DraftExpress) 1h (https://twitter.com/DraftExpress/status/327452996264939520) French forward and Nike Hoop Summit MVP Livio Jean-Charles has declared for the 2013 NBA Draft, his agent Pedja Materic informed us.

[Bruno]

What's the biggest differences between this kid and Jateih?

They are very different players.

Jean-Charles is a long athletic defensive minded SF/PF that is a good rebounder and has a good motor. He is very limited offensively. He would be a low risk low reward.

Jaiteh is a very young and raw project bigman. He is 18 years old and is in his fifth year of basketball. At that stage, I would say only his rebounding is fine and the rest of his game is a big work in progress. He is showing some glimpses in a lot of different areas that are nowhere near convincing enough to say he will be good in these areas at a NBA level. A high risk, high reward pick.

[td4mvp2k]

327417904121405440

ya spurs kno waz :tu

[BackHome]

Well Livio is only 19 years old and I know people say he is skinny but Prince and Durant are doing pretty good. Bruno do you think he is the best international player the Spurs could pick in the first round for --Draft and Stash?

[Bruno]

Bruno do you think he is the best international player the Spurs could pick in the first round for --Draft and Stash?

I don't and by far.
I like the way Jean-Charles play but I really don't see him as a first round pick material. He just isn't talented enough.

Regarding the draft and stash process, it's noteworthy that not all "euros" are stash-able when picked in the first round. A lot of these players want to come directly in the NBA where they will be paid way more than in Europe.

[DrunkTXLabrat]

http://www.nba.com/2013/news/features/david_aldridge/04/22/david-aldridges-big-board-small-forwards-2013-draft/index.html

i was reading the bits about the tallest sf's in this article. i like what i read about livio. get boards, could play 4, and aldridge likes him better than jaiteh.

[exstatic]

http://www.nba.com/2013/news/features/david_aldridge/04/22/david-aldridges-big-board-small-forwards-2013-draft/index.html

i was reading the bits about the tallest sf's in this article. i like what i read about livio. get boards, could play 4, and aldridge likes him better than jaiteh.

He's really a skinny PF. He's not really a shooter or ball handler, and would struggle to fill the SF position on offense.

That also wasn't Aldridge who liked Livio better than Jaiteh. It was one EC GM's quote. For all we know, it was that idiot from Toronto.

[ace3g]

Chad Ford @chadfordinsider
(http://twitter.com/chadfordinsider)French forward Livio Jean-Charles will stay in the draft his agent just texted me. Jean-Charles our 8th ranked PF.

[Bruno]

Jean-Charles' season has ended on May 23rd and it looks like he has done nothing draft related since that. He wasn't at the Adidas Eurocamp and there hasn't been a single report of him working out for a NBA team. Him staying in the draft in these circumstances sounds a lot like he has received a promise and he is hiding from other teams.

[pad300]

Jean-Charles' season has ended on May 23rd and it looks like he has done nothing draft related since that. He wasn't at the Adidas Eurocamp and there hasn't been a single report of him working out for a NBA team. Him staying in the draft in these circumstances sounds a lot like he has received a promise and he is hiding from other teams.

I believe the promise, I'm just hoping it's not us. I think he's on the wrong side of the SF/PF tweener spectrum - not strong enough to play PF in the NBA, and not skilled enough to play SF (and maybe not fast enough). He's got much less skills than Al Farouq Aminu, and is he really any better an athlete/physical profile?

[Bruno]

not strong enough to play PF in the NBA

He is only 19 years old and has a good frame. Adding some weight shouldn't be an issue for him.

[Baam]

If you're looking to fill a need he makes a whole lot of sense if Chip thinks he can learn to shoot. Backup 3 is the one position where there's a opening and having a strong rebounder/defender like Kawhi would be nice.

What may not make that much sense is using the 28th pick on him but they could trade down or trade for another pick. But then again it's a weak draft that got weaker with Saric and Jaiteh taking their name out so who knows.

[ace3g]

Alex Kennedy @AlexKennedyNBA
(http://twitter.com/AlexKennedyNBA)The San Antonio Spurs like forward Livio Jean-Charles, according to a source. They may draft him to stash overseas: tinyurl.com/nyc4zhl (http://t.co/VHoS1meNag)

[Bruno]

Alex Kennedy @AlexKennedyNBA
(http://twitter.com/AlexKennedyNBA)The San Antonio Spurs like forward Livio Jean-Charles, according to a source. They may draft him to stash overseas: tinyurl.com/nyc4zhl (http://t.co/VHoS1meNag)




It would make sense. While I'm not sold on Jean-Charles' upside, he seem to be Spurs material with his attitude and his ability to be a role player. Draft and stash a player at #28 would also allow Spurs to have a little more capsapce this summer to go after free agents.

[ace3g]

Adrian Wojnarowski @WojYahooNBA
(http://twitter.com/WojYahooNBA)The San Antonio Spurs will select French forward Livio Jean-Charles with the 28th pick in the NBA Draft, league source tells Y! Sports.

[ace3g]

Adrian Wojnarowski @WojYahooNBA
(http://twitter.com/WojYahooNBA)Spurs pick of Jean-Charles gives them a player that they can stash overseas next season and spare a roster spot and salary.

[Richie]

Draft and stash. Yawn.

[ace3g]

Marc J. Spears @SpearsNBAYahoo
(http://twitter.com/SpearsNBAYahoo)Jean-Charles scored well, rebounded & blocked shots for World Team at Hoop Summit and will be the next in line of great Spurs draft picks.

http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/2852135/vivelefrance.gif

[99 Problems]

I'm happy. Some real upside.

[ace3g]

Livio Jean Charles @Jclifio
(http://twitter.com/Jclifio)Un grand merci a tout ceux qui ont contribue a tout cela#cygne#poleguyane#insep#asvel

[Captivus]

I dont know...I just dont know...

[ace3g]

Livio Jean Charles ‏@Jclifio (https://twitter.com/Jclifio) 2m (https://twitter.com/Jclifio/status/350446578328281089) Un grand merci a mon garry kasparov @PedjaMateric (https://twitter.com/PedjaMateric) #superagent#ami#nessavec@PaulPopox @lwestermann (https://twitter.com/lwestermann)

[Marcus Bryant]

Makes sense. Finding a role player at #28 who can crack the rotation and contribute right away is difficult.

Spurs get a little extra cap flexibility this summer and a prospect for the future.

[ace3g]

Livio Jean Charles @Jclifio
(http://twitter.com/Jclifio)I m glad to be a member of the spurs family

[99 Problems]

Anybody heard how LJC going?

[ace3g]

Today is his 20th Birthday

[sinok]

He's supposed to be back at the beginning of 2014.

[BackHome]

Hope he works on his three point shooting and ball handling but have to say I like the kid. Just looking at our team this year I think he would be a great fit for small ball in our second unit.

Pg. Mills/Manu
SG. Bel/Manu
SF. Livio
PF. Diaw/Ayres
C. Ayres/Banes

[DrunkTXLabrat]

i'm looking forward to him getting a shot with the spurs. his mcdonalds game numbers are so ridiculous. manu/timmy aside... tony, green, kawhi, diaw, splitter, mills, beli. he's gonna have plenty of talent around him when he gets here, assuming this team finishes last years job.

[yavozerb]

Didnt see his name on asvel roster. What team is he currently on?

[Bruno]

Didnt see his name on asvel roster. What team is he currently on?

He is still under contract with ASVEL. It's just that he isn't currently playing because of an ACL surgery.

[yavozerb]

He is still under contract with ASVEL. It's just that he isn't currently playing because of an ACL surgery.

Thanks..I knew he wasnt playing but I figured they would still list his name under there roster.

[Bruno]

ASVEL's coach said 3 days ago that Livio shouldn't be back this season.

[AFBlue]

ASVEL's coach said 3 days ago that Livio shouldn't be back this season.

Does that fit with the timeline for his injury, or does it suggest his recovery is slower than normal?

Sorry, not familiar with the timeline or Euroleague season.

[Bruno]

Does that fit with the timeline for his injury, or does it suggest his recovery is slower than normal?

Sorry, not familiar with the timeline or Euroleague season.

They first said that he should be back around March.

Since he got his ACL surgery at the end of august, It would have made 6 months which seemed quite short for an ACL. It is usually more around 8-10 months.

[ABC]

They first said that he should be back around March.

Since he got his ACL surgery at the end of august, It would have made 6 months which seemed quite short for an ACL. It is usually more around 8-10 months.

Did we ever find out why he didn't have his surgery immediately after the injury? I can't remember the exact dates, but I seem to remember that there was a month or six weeks between the injury and the surgery.

[Bruno]

Did we ever find out why he didn't have his surgery immediately after the injury? I can't remember the exact dates, but I seem to remember that there was a month or six weeks between the injury and the surgery.

ACL surgeries are often delayed because there is some knee swelling associated with the tear and the surgery gives better results when it's done once the swelling is gone.

[ABC]

ACL surgeries are often delayed because there is some knee swelling associated with the tear and the surgery gives better results when it's done once the swelling is gone.

Thanks Bruno :)

[jyra]

http://www.sportando.com/en/europe/france/115210/tony-parker-says-livio-jean-charles-will-remain-with-asvel-next-season.html


Tony Parker confirmed to TP Show (via Catch-and-Shoot (http://www.catch-and-shoot.com/livenews/tony-parker-annonce-que-livio-jean-charles-va-rester-a-lasvel/2014/)) that Livio Jean-Charles will remain with ASVEL Villeurbanne next season.

"I have already talked with the Spurs" said Parker. "He will stay with ASVEL next season. They believe he will have a breakout season" added Parker.

[yavozerb]

http://www.sportando.com/en/europe/france/115210/tony-parker-says-livio-jean-charles-will-remain-with-asvel-next-season.html

:toast, hopefully comes back strong and is ready for 2015-2016 season with spurs..

[Baam]

Boring. Anyway isn't it his own call as opposed to the Spurs'. Technically at least.

[ABC]

Thanks jyra.

[Mel_13]

Boring. Anyway isn't it his own call as opposed to the Spurs'. Technically at least.

You know the answer to that. It depends on the terms of his contract with ASVEL. When it ends, whether or not it contains an NBA buyout provision, the amount of any buyout, etc..

[Chinook]

Probably for the best, as it will take a year for him to come back fully, anyway. This also increases the likelihood of Daye sticking around.

[CGD]

Does this mean Bertan's is coming then?

[kobyz]

Is he coming to play summer league?

[DrunkTXLabrat]

I hope so

[spursparker9]

Think he was in SA during the championship game. Got people posted his instagram picture.

[T Park]

He's playing in Europe next year where hell face better competition. May be on national team. Needs playing time. Not in Austin.

[Darkwaters]

He definitely needs to play summer league if hes healthy enough to do so. He also definitely needs to stay in Europe for at least another season. Although, I think Tony has already confirmed that this will indeed be the case.

[DrunkTXLabrat]

He definitely needs to play summer league if hes healthy enough to do so. He also definitely needs to stay in Europe for at least another season. Although, I think Tony has already confirmed that this will indeed be the case.

I think he plays Summer league with Anderson and Bertans this season, and ends up being brought over. I'll be disappointed in the spurs if that's not the case.

Mills, Manu, Anderson, Bertans, Baynes. With Cojo, Beli, Ayers. Leaves a gap. Tweener 3/4, defensive stopper, who can grab boards. If Jean-Charles comes to summer league and gets a few steals with a handful of rebounds/game, while keeping the to's down. He'd be far and away better for the job than Daye.

Hell, even if he doesn't have the greatest SL performance. A year of practices, garbage/d league minutes, and corporate knowledge with THIS spurs team infinitely outweighs a little better competition.

[Darkwaters]

Probably for the best, as it will take a year for him to come back fully, anyway. This also increases the likelihood of Daye sticking around.

I'm curious, do you want Daye to stick around? I personally would prefer to just cut him and move on.

Although, that being said, I'd probably give him a shot in training camp. Might as well. If he lights it up then you can carry him at least in the early part of the season. I'm not sure when his contract becomes fully guaranteed, but having him in camp would be a plus.

[Chinook]

I'm curious, do you want Daye to stick around? I personally would prefer to just cut him and move on.

Although, that being said, I'd probably give him a shot in training camp. Might as well. If he lights it up then you can carry him at least in the early part of the season. I'm not sure when his contract becomes fully guaranteed, but having him in camp would be a plus.

His contract becomes guaranteed on Monday.

I'm fine with him sticking around since LJC and staying over. It's pretty much between him and Thomas.

[Darkwaters]

His contract becomes guaranteed on Monday.

I'm fine with him sticking around since LJC and staying over. It's pretty much between him and Thomas.

Well, unless the addition of Kyle Anderson changes things, I think Daye makes the team. At least ostensibly. Doesn't mean he'll survive training camp....just means he'll get paid his minimum wage for the year.

I'm just not overly impressed with him. I think the roster spot has more value than whatever Daye would bring. I'd rather sign Bertans and roll into the season with him instead.

[FireMicoHalili]

Spurs are loaded on the wings, if ever. Bertans, Hanga, LJC, Dangubic...and it's strange SA had to trade for Dangubic when they could have drafted two other internationals with 58 and 60. Obviously the Spurs thought Klimenko was nothing special.

[benstanfield]

If LJC and Bertans come over eventually, seems like the Spurs will have Point Guards, Centers, then just a bunch of 6'6-6'8 wing players who can do 2/3 of shoot, distribute, defend.

[DrunkTXLabrat]

If LJC and Bertans come over eventually, seems like the Spurs will have Point Guards, Centers, then just a bunch of 6'6-6'8 wing players who can do 2/3 of shoot, distribute, defend.

i love it. solid pick and roll, with versatile wings and cutters.

[xellos88330]

Is this guy just practicing with the summer league team, or is he actually on the roster? There are pictures of him for the summer league shootaround on spurs.com

[exstatic]

Is this guy just practicing with the summer league team, or is he actually on the roster? There are pictures of him for the summer league shootaround on spurs.com
Practicing.

[ace3g]

Pedja Materic @PedjaMateric
(https://twitter.com/PedjaMateric)Livio Jean-Charles @Jclifio (https://twitter.com/Jclifio/) is MVP of preseason game between @ASVEL_Basket (https://twitter.com/ASVEL_Basket/) - Orleans 75-83 with 15p, 7rbd, eval index 20 in 25min #hesback (https://twitter.com/search?q=%23hesback)

[Chinook]

Nifty. Hope he stays healthy and improves this season. I may be in the minority, but I expect big things from him going forward. I like him better than Anderson.

[jyra]

511605514774802432
511605838516326400

I'm really looking forward to see if he can make that transition from PF to SF on the offensive end. Hopefully I remember to catch some of their games in the Eurocup.

[jyra]

Asvel will play their first Euroleague qualifying game in about an hour. It's available to watch for free on a legal stream: www.livebasketball.tv/ (http://www.livebasketball.tv/) (you have to sign up for an account there).

He just played 6 minutes in the first half and didn't see too much of the ball. Had two of his layups blocked and the ball knocked away on a post up attempt. The only points have come from a tip in.
He does look active and engaged on defense and had a nice block on a rotation but otherwise didn't get involved very much.
The coach has played at him both forwards spots and they certainly need his length out there with the defense giving up a ton of open threes.

Very quiet second half with just one made jumper from the baseline. The team didn't need his defense as much in this game because they scored incredibly well.
Asvel has to win two more games to make it to the Euroleague. Next up is Strasbourg with national team coach Vincent Collet.

[yavozerb]

Looks like they have there 2nd game in qualifying today..

[jyra]

Asvel advance to the final game. I would like to see Unics Kazan go through for a LJC-Sankidze matchup.

Disappointing performance for Livio in this game. He was invisible throughout the game and subbed off in the second half after commiting two traveling violations within in a minute trying to put the ball on the floor. He was pretty much exclusively used as a screen setter and barely touched the ball at all.
I wonder how he and the coaching staff plan to develop him into a SF but so far he doesn't look like a perimeter player at all.

[jyra]

Asvel chokes away a 19 point lead mid way through the game, no Euroleague for them next season. They will instead play in the Eurocup competition which is obviously a step below but there are still some good teams in that league.

Livio showed some better energy on the boards in this game but ends up scoreless again.
All in all a very anonymous showing in these three games. He has a lot of work to do if he wants to become a rotation player in the NBA.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Thanks jyra for tracking the prospects and giving these updates and recaps, it's really helpful and I'm sure everyone appreciates it :tu

[jyra]

Thanks jyra for tracking the prospects and giving these updates and recaps, it's really helpful and I'm sure everyone appreciates it :tu

No problem, I love watching these young guys develop.It's also good to see games without having to worry about your team winning or losing and just focus on analyzing the play.

[CGD]

Is this guy still injured?

[Uriel]

It seems all but certain that Bertans will be coming over next season to fill the Matt Bonner role. Can the same be said about LVC?

[Baam]

It seems all but certain that Bertans will be coming over next season to fill the Matt Bonner role. Can the same be said about LVC?

Not sure about that one... He wanted to come over very badly last year and they chose to keep Daye instead...

Livio is a lock to come over on the other hand imo, if they wait another year he won't be subject to the rookie scale and he could always force the issue as a first rounder...

[exstatic]

Not sure about that one... He wanted to come over very badly last year and they chose to keep Daye instead...

Livio is a lock to come over on the other hand imo, if they wait another year he won't be subject to the rookie scale and he could always force the issue as a first rounder...

The only thing he can force is an 80% rookie scale offer sheet. I'm kind of doubting that he'd take that. so he would remain overseas and our asset. He doesn't have the leverage that Tiago did. He hasn't really shown much yet. His numbers after 12 games, 7 FL and 5 EC, are pretty awful.

[DrunkTXLabrat]

Draft and stash sucks so bad. The players get hurt, make little or no progress, and/or (and this is best case scenario) blossom into a player worth more than rookie contract stipulation or team buyout budget.

You just don't draft players you can't or won't play, immediately. You draft players to replace Bonners, Ayers, Dayes. If you are so cheap or so statistically savy that your worst are soo entrenched, splash your face with ice cold water! Keep. It. Simple. Stupid.

[DrunkTXLabrat]

Tayshawn Prince and Reggie Miller played in yesterday's nba and people still say anybody is too skinny. Antetokounpo was a kid, ballin with street Greeks, yesterday. and people say anybody is too raw. Ljc couldn't have a roster spot because the spurs just had a gold mine in Ayers. Sometimes i wonder how many championships the spurs would have won, if they'd untied that arm they keep behind their back.

[exstatic]

It just floors me that people like you, DrunkTXLabrat, still bag on the front office. Nobody picks all winners, but the Spurs have a better hit rate than teams that are in the lottery YEAR AFTER YEAR, and we've been drafting 28-30 most years.

I'll answer your question with one of my own: How many, if any, championships would we have won with a different front office crew, constrained by our market and budget?

[baseline bum]

LOL when winning the championship in dominating fashion isn't enough.

[DrunkTXLabrat]

Any gm that would be smart enough to draft and cash might not be smart enough to keep the big three together. So I can't give you a clear projection.

I'll tell ya this. When the spurs cut the rj cord, brought in splitter, and realized that parker and hill was a logjam. Yeah, that was championship caliber gm work. Robinson replacement, Bowen replacement, Parker confidence took at least 1 missed championship too long.

Bonner, Ayers, Daye aren't going to win or lose you anything. It's the absence of apprentices or players that actually have potential and create depth that I'll look back on, if pop and the big 4 can't just carry the dead weight.

[DrunkTXLabrat]

Don't misunderstand me. I'm talking about the absence that those three specific players cause. By holding a roster spot. Not saying the rest of the team is insufficient.

[spurraider21]

LJC seems to small to be successful without a good jumper

[benefactor]

:cry why don't the Spurs shake the banana tree until a big running, jumping monkey falls out :cry

[DrunkTXLabrat]

bring on the monkey(s) daddy wants some fruit and daddy is the more evolved species.:lobt2:

[Johnny RIngo]

Really disappointing that Spurs just barely missed Gobert in the 2013 draft...kid looks like a beast. Instead they had to settle for the kid with the exploding knees. Mahinmi, DeColo, and Charles - seems like Spurs always draft the French busts

[yavozerb]

Really disappointing that Spurs just barely missed Gobert in the 2013 draft...kid looks like a beast. Instead they had to settle for the kid with the exploding knees. Mahinmi, DeColo, and Charles - seems like Spurs always draft the French busts

Ya, Parker was pretty bad...:rolleyes

[Johnny RIngo]

Ya, Parker was pretty bad...:rolleyes

Honestly, I'd much rather have Gobert over Parker - a defensive big will always be a valuable asset. TP gives you cancerous impact at a bloated price($45 mil for the next three years). I have nothing against French players but a lot of them are chokers/disappointments. Diaw's the lone exception it seems(actually shows up for playoff basketball). Gobert seems like he'll be good too.

[BackHome]

TP was a stud when he was in his prime. But I don't see this kid coming over heck we only at three pages we had more pages on players who where called up for a seven day contract ..lol

[Uriel]

Really disappointing that Spurs just barely missed Gobert in the 2013 draft...kid looks like a beast. Instead they had to settle for the kid with the exploding knees. Mahinmi, DeColo, and Charles - seems like Spurs always draft the French busts
Even if Gobert had been available, I don't think the Spurs would've drafted him, given that they gave LJC a promise.

[Chinook]

Just draft Jaiteh. One of the coolest pronunciations in the draft, and he might be around in the second round. There was a time where he was considered to be a better prospect than Gobert.

[BackHome]

Aww Chinook I think you pulling our chain..lol....Jaiteh better then Gobert..

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

What do you guys think the chances are that Livio signs with the Spurs next season?

I would think that with Bertans' injury, the odds increase a bit. Though they aren't the same type of player, the Spurs probably didn't want more than one project on the roster. Especially since they'll have to think about integrating Kyle into the rotation next year as well.

[AFBlue]

I don't think Bertans factors into the decision to sign LJC.

My perspective...the Spurs FO is a loyal one, and they will offer to bring LJC over before his first round guaranteed contract agreement expires. But I also think they'll tell him that he's likely to spend a significant amount of time in Austin learning the system and continuing his comeback from the ACL injury. If he prefers to stay overseas until there's opportunity on the roster and learn from the bench in a couple years, then he might choose to decline. But giving up $2M guaranteed doesn't seem likely. Ultimately I think he ends up here next year but spends most of his time in Austin.

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

Is this summer the last time he can get his guaranteed contract?

[AFBlue]

Is this summer the last time he can get his guaranteed contract?

Read somewhere that it was, but I just checked and that's wrong. He has three full years before the guarantee is up, so it would be next Summer as his last.

[Chinook]

Read somewhere that it was, but I just checked and that's wrong. He has three full years before the guarantee is up, so it would be next Summer as his last.

Nah. It's this summer. He was drafted in 2013. 2013, 2014, 2015. 2016 has no protection. Same thing happened with Splitter (2007, 2008 and 2009), but he was waiting on purpose.

[CGD]

So unless this guys decides to bet on himself by declining the 2m guarantee, it sounds like we should see him stateside next year.

[BackHome]

I doubt it they tried to make him a SF and he pretty much has sucked at that and he is to small to play PF in the NBA.

[Baam]

What I don't get is why he's not taking 3s, other than that it looks like he got better as the season went by : http://www.lnb.fr/fr/Pro-A/200010/Stats-Joueurs/A45331/fiche?id=A45331&stat=m&from=2014&jFrom=2014101&jTo=&typeRes=

0/5 from 3 for the season, how does he only take five, playing for what is basically a Spurs D League team since it's owned by TP...

[ceperez]

Hope the dude isn't a complete bust. The Spurs could have traded a spot to get Golbert (also from France). Heck, that's just what the Utah Jazz did to get Golbert.

[DrunkTXLabrat]

Hope the dude isn't a complete bust. The Spurs could have traded a spot to get Golbert (also from France). Heck, that's just what the Utah Jazz did to get Golbert.

Tweet him. Let him know that fans want him and Tavares to join the Spurs.

[random21]

http://youtu.be/_87HC_Ki06Y

[CGD]

So is this coming summer that last one for him to get his guaranteed deal?

Based on the exchange above I don't k own where he stands

[Chinook]

So is this coming summer that last one for him to get his guaranteed deal?

Based on the exchange above I don't k own where he stands

Bruno corrected me on this, actually. Last season was the final one where both sides had to abide by the rookie scale. Now, he's can sign for MORE than the scale, he can't sign for less. Technically the money is no longer guaranteed, but there'd probably be a CBA despite if the Spurs tried to screw Jean-Charles by not giving him at least as much guaranteed as the rookie scale specifies. Also, the Spurs would have to worry about cap space/exceptions if they don't give him the rookie-scale contract, and with Boban and West both being stronger candidates for the MLE, I don't see them wanting to do that.

[SAGirl]

Does anyone know how this guy is doing?
With Bertans camp making noise about him joining San Anton, and Livio looking so raw and undeveloped offensively last summer, I don't see him here next season, maybe not for a couple of seasons if that. He is still young enough that he can improve. Maybe in 2 years time we will revisit his status?

[Chinook]

Does anyone know how this guy is doing?
With Bertans camp making noise about him joining San Anton, and Livio looking so raw and undeveloped offensively last summer, I don't see him here next season, maybe not for a couple of seasons if that. He is still young enough that he can improve. Maybe in 2 years time we will revisit his status?

I'm almost certain that his contract is up after this season, so at that point, it's 100-percent his decision to be in SA or not. I doubt after three years of waiting relatively patiently, he'll decide to forego the millions again. And I don't think the Spurs want him to stay over there anyway. He'd probably be a much better player now had he come over in 2013 (not counting the ACL of course). He has the talent to be Ibaka-lite, and he's just rotting away over there.

But you obviously bring up a good point about the roster. The Spurs just have so much depth at the middle positions that I just can't see them all being on the roster. Simmons, Anderson, Bertans, LJC, Lalanne to go along with Green, Kawhi, Manu, LMA and Diaw is just too many.

[ceperez]

I'm almost certain that his contract is up after this season, so at that point, it's 100-percent his decision to be in SA or not. I doubt after three years of waiting relatively patiently, he'll decide to forego the millions again. And I don't think the Spurs want him to stay over there anyway. He'd probably be a much better player now had he come over in 2013 (not counting the ACL of course). He has the talent to be Ibaka-lite, and he's just rotting away over there.

But you obviously bring up a good point about the roster. The Spurs just have so much depth at the middle positions that I just can't see them all being on the roster. Simmons, Anderson, Bertans, LJC, Lalanne to go along with Green, Kawhi, Manu, LMA and Diaw is just too many.

After the destruction courtesy of the GSW, Spurs need as many quick, long and athletic players that they can get.

[CGD]

Thanks, and the subsequent point below about the roster spots is interesting. Its as if a small trade is inevitable if the spurs are serious about bringing in LJC and Bertans

[CGD]

Trying to decide if his best case is a poor man Ibaka or more a homeless mans ibaka? Seems to fit the profile in many ways, and while slightly shorter has a bit more wingspan.

Excited to see what he and Bertans can do in the years to come.

[Chinook]

His best case is probably just above poor man's. He had looked like he was learning to shoot when the team drafted him. Now, he might have taken a step back. But he seems to have a higher BBIQ than Serge does, at least offensively. The thing that's limited LJC is that he's 22 now. He should have been a Spur this whole time, as his stint with ASVEL or however it's written hasn't done him any good.

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

Why hasn't he gotten any time with ASVEL? Don't know much about the French league tbh. Seems pretty weird to me that a guy who could possibly join the Spurs next year can't even get any time with a lower level European league.

[elemento]

My feeling is that LJC is the kind of player that flourishes in a established system like ours. He is not the kind of player that figure things out alone and put stats on a bad team.

He pretty much wasted 3 years in Europe as ASVEL failed to develop him. I see him as a Mbah a Moute type of player. He is a good defender, has the tools and has a knack to block shots,but I just hope he becomes a better offensively player than Moute is.

[CGD]

The ASVEL choice was bizzare from the start. You have to think there was a better club willing to do a Spurs friendly deal where he could have developed.

The lack of development may end up costing him millions, not to mention the time he has already foregone by not signing a rookie deal. LJC has been very patient to say the least.

[SAGirl]

His best case is probably just above poor man's. He had looked like he was learning to shoot when the team drafted him. Now, he might have taken a step back. But he seems to have a higher BBIQ than Serge does, at least offensively. The thing that's limited LJC is that he's 22 now. He should have been a Spur this whole time, as his stint with ASVEL or however it's written hasn't done him any good.
I agree. I mean Simmons is an amazing athlete and he was undrafted and under the radar for everyone, but he developed two years in Austin into a legit Nba rotation player. LJC was so young when drafted him that he might have done a Corey Joseph and looked marginal his first couple of seasons to emerge on the 3rd and beyond as a player. Him not wanting to play in the dleague hurt his career. His knee injury also took a full year of development from him, but it doesn't seem like he even plays that much in Asvel. The situation gets more complicated for him bc as you mentioned now there are rather young guys ahead of him in potential and he would have to beat these guys for his spot. I don't see him beating Anderson or Lalanne unless he can hit that midrange shot. His defensive upside is tantalizing however.

In SL two things stood out to me, as slim as he is, Anderson is a better rebounder and has good hands. LJC had trouble rebounding and holding on to rebounds. I can't recall if it was him or Lalanne who also had trouble catching a ball on the move like an Ayers lite.

[jyra]

He's actually getting a decent amount of minutes this year (about 22 per game) and his stats look a lot better than last season: http://basketball.realgm.com/player/Livio-Jean-Charles/Summary/26494

I haven't actually seen him play this year but the high FG%, lack of three pointers and uptick in rebounding make me think they he's being played as a PF now. That's probably his best position anyway considering his shot blocking prowess and weak ball handling.

You can actually watch full length Eurocup games on Youtube (but who does that really..):

https://www.youtube.com/user/FIBAWorld/search?query=asvel

[raybies]

He's actually getting a decent amount of minutes this year (about 22 per game) and his stats look a lot better than last season: http://basketball.realgm.com/player/Livio-Jean-Charles/Summary/26494

I haven't actually seen him play this year but the high FG%, lack of three pointers and uptick in rebounding make me think they he's being played as a PF now. That's probably his best position anyway considering his shot blocking prowess and weak ball handling.

You can actually watch full length Eurocup games on Youtube (but who does that really..):

https://www.youtube.com/user/FIBAWorld/search?query=asvel

Yeah the game I just watched of him in Eurocup, he was playing the 4. He played on the perimeter and around the basket. Defensively he played well on the perimeter and pick and roll. In the post, I only saw one possession and his man spinned on him for a basket. As for his scores, he hit an 18 footer, a lob, and a dish for a dunk. He blocked a shot and got a steal.

I mean he's a role player. I want expecting much. He's not a star on his team. They have him playing a role as well. I guess he wouldn't be bad as an end of bench player that could be an energy boost. But I agree he needs to come over. Austin would be better for him, although he does appear to be developing, rather slowly albeit. It's just a little concerning that he's not dominant against the completion which didn't look too great.

[SAGirl]

Yeah the game I just watched of him in Eurocup, he was playing the 4. He played on the perimeter and around the basket. Defensively he played well on the perimeter and pick and roll. In the post, I only saw one possession and his man spinned on him for a basket. As for his scores, he hit an 18 footer, a lob, and a dish for a dunk. He blocked a shot and got a steal.

I mean he's a role player. I want expecting much. He's not a star on his team. They have him playing a role as well. I guess he wouldn't be bad as an end of bench player that could be an energy boost. But I agree he needs to come over. Austin would be better for him, although he does appear to be developing, rather slowly albeit. It's just a little concerning that he's not dominant against the completion which didn't look too great.
That is a also a concern for me bc you saw just how flat out dominant both Anderson and Simmons were in the dleague and SL. It seemed like they could score or get fouled when they wanted, and at times you could not contain them... you had to hope they just missed shots. Their weakness was neither shot the 3 well. Now in the NBA you see sometimes how hesitant they are bc its just another level. Anderson in particular needs to be stronger so his post game flourishes, and Simmons is now met with resistance at the rim and blocked more often, bc there are real shot blockers who are used to his athletic types...

It seems to me that to be a legit prospect you have to be flat out dominating the lower leagues, unless you are looking at a shooter (and as Chinook pointed out even Danny was averaging 20 pts in the dleague), and Nando and CoJo were looking like dleague stars...

[Sean Cagney]

I forgot all about this guy.

[raybies]

Watched another game. Stopped midway through. Doesn't have a post game or perimeter skills. Catch and shoot guy. Cleanup around the rim. Defense. That's what he does. Not exciting, just cleanup. If he can carve a niche out of rebounding and defense with a spot up j, he might have a career. Maybe I need to watch more but I was getting bored. I think he's got some useful skills just would rather have them in a bigger player.

[CGD]

I wonder is it asvel and there lack of infrastructure compared to other clubs. Could he have gone elsewhere that would develop him more? Question is whether it's too late now.

[CGD]

In terms of cap next year, if LJC comes over would he need to be signed using part of the MLE or is there a cap exception for 1st picks under the current rookie scale? Would the same apply for Bertans as a 2nd round pick?

Seems that if the Spurs had to use part of the MLE to sign one or both of these guys this summer, that it'll also be hard to keep Boban, no? If that's the case why not sell high on him now?

[SAGirl]

I am unsure on his status. I don't know for example if being a first round pick he can force the Spurs to give him a contract. He could always be waived I suppose, but CBA issues I am completely ignorant on.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

In terms of cap next year, if LJC comes over would he need to be signed using part of the MLE or is there a cap exception for 1st picks under the current rookie scale? Would the same apply for Bertans as a 2nd round pick?

Seems that if the Spurs had to use part of the MLE to sign one or both of these guys this summer, that it'll also be hard to keep Boban, no? If that's the case why not sell high on him now?

Are you kidding :lol his trade value couldn't be lower. A first round pick, who's unsigned, underdevelopped and who can somewhat force his way into the roster. The Spurs would have to give up an asset to get rid.

[jyra]

In terms of cap next year, if LJC comes over would he need to be signed using part of the MLE or is there a cap exception for 1st picks under the current rookie scale? Would the same apply for Bertans as a 2nd round pick?

Seems that if the Spurs had to use part of the MLE to sign one or both of these guys this summer, that it'll also be hard to keep Boban, no? If that's the case why not sell high on him now?

LJC is not bound to the rookie scale anymore because three seasons passed since he was drafted in 2013. There is no restriction/rookie scale when it comes to second rounders. You can give them anything from the minimum to the max.

So both will have to be signed using cap space or an exception. Depending on how things go in the offseason the Bi-Annual exception might also be available because it was not used last year. At this point LJC probably will probably have to settle for a close to min deal while Bertans should command more than that.

[elemento]

He's actually getting a decent amount of minutes this year (about 22 per game) and his stats look a lot better than last season: http://basketball.realgm.com/player/Livio-Jean-Charles/Summary/26494

I haven't actually seen him play this year but the high FG%, lack of three pointers and uptick in rebounding make me think they he's being played as a PF now. That's probably his best position anyway considering his shot blocking prowess and weak ball handling.

You can actually watch full length Eurocup games on Youtube (but who does that really..):

https://www.youtube.com/user/FIBAWorld/search?query=asvel

Thanks for the link man. I'll watch it once I get some free time :toast

[CGD]

Are you kidding :lol his trade value couldn't be lower. A first round pick, who's unsigned, underdevelopped and who can somewhat force his way into the roster. The Spurs would have to give up an asset to get rid.

This doesn't describe Boban at all. Look at the preceding sentence.

Reading is fundamental

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

LJC is not bound to the rookie scale anymore because three seasons passed since he was drafted in 2013. There is no restriction/rookie scale when it comes to second rounders. You can give them anything from the minimum to the max.

So both will have to be signed using cap space or an exception. Depending on how things go in the offseason the Bi-Annual exception might also be available because it was not used last year. At this point LJC probably will probably have to settle for a close to min deal while Bertans should command more than that.

They have to at least match his 1st round payscale to sign LJC. Bertans, I think, will stay another year in Europe.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

This doesn't describe Boban at all. Look at the preceding sentence.

Reading is fundamental

Meh hadn't had my coffee yet lol

If they don't plan to keep Boban and can get a future first/early second for him it'd be a great deal.

[jyra]

They have to at least match his 1st round payscale to sign LJC. Bertans, I think, will stay another year in Europe.

My bad, you are right. I just found the paragraph in the CBA FAQ:


When a team signs a first round draft pick within three years after he is drafted, they use the salary scale for the year in which he signs (usually the player signs in the same year he is drafted). After three years they have the option of either using the salary scale or signing him as if he was a free agent -- using their cap room or any available exception, with the standard raises. They can only do the latter if the player did not play intercollegiately in the interim. Such a contract must be for at least three seasons, and the salary in the first season must be greater than 120% of the applicable rookie scale amount.

[Chinook]

LJC can still be signed with the rookie-scale exception. The team just gained the additional ability to pay him more.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

nm

[CGD]

LJC can still be signed with the rookie-scale exception. The team just gained the additional ability to pay him more.

Same for Bertans as a second?

If not could he fit into the biannual exception potentially (forget if Manu was shoehorned into that last summer)?

[ChumpDumper]

Same for Bertans as a second?

If not could he fit into the biannual exception potentially (forget if Manu was shoehorned into that last summer)?There aren't any rookie scale exceptions for second rounders.

[Chinook]

Same for Bertans as a second?

If not could he fit into the biannual exception potentially (forget if Manu was shoehorned into that last summer)?

Bertans can always be signed with a minimum deal. But anything more requires cap space or an exception. There's no reason to think LLE (alternative acronym for the bi-annual exception) for him, as his stock isn't all that high after two major injuries. The min would be enough to get him on a two-year deal, and maybe it would let him get a three-year deal if they guarantee the first two years or something like that. Finally, Manu was signed with the room exception last year, not the LLE. The difference between the two is that the room exception is what teams have when they use cap space, while the LLE is a cap exception like the MLE. So just like the MLE, the Spurs didn't have the LLE last year. Other main difference is that the room exception is like twice as large as the LLE.

[spurraider21]

i have doubts that he's even as good as rasual butler at this point when it comes to playing the 4

[CGD]

Bertans can always be signed with a minimum deal. But anything more requires cap space or an exception. There's no reason to think LLE (alternative acronym for the bi-annual exception) for him, as his stock isn't all that high after two major injuries. The min would be enough to get him on a two-year deal, and maybe it would let him get a three-year deal if they guarantee the first two years or something like that. Finally, Manu was signed with the room exception last year, not the LLE. The difference between the two is that the room exception is what teams have when they use cap space, while the LLE is a cap exception like the MLE. So just like the MLE, the Spurs didn't have the LLE last year. Other main difference is that the room exception is like twice as large as the LLE.

Very helpful breakdown

[CGD]

i have doubts that he's even as good as rasual butler at this point when it comes to playing the 4

Butler is like 36. I hope he's not in the Spurs long term plans.

[Ditty]

Considering the fact that he would be a college senior currently right now, and imo already a great rim protector/shot blocker I'm pretty excited about this kid when he hopefully comes over next season. I believe he will best used as a power forward in the NBA, he looked like he got a bit more built in the summer league, and will hopefully keep getting stronger. Hopefully he spends majority of next season in Austin and is ready to contribute in the 2017-2018 season. Can't remember any of the other summer league games, or his reaction around here except the Philly game but he wasn't intimidated by Okafor one bit and blocked two impressive layups by him from that video. If he turns into a better IQ Biyombo/poor man's Ibaka as mentioned I'll be happy with this pick.

[raybies]

He's got a game coming up at 1pm central on YouTube vs the Antwerp Giants. I'll try to post it.

[raybies]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=sSUUwIAX_7Y

[elemento]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=sSUUwIAX_7Y

Thanks for sharing :toast

[raybies]

So Livios team is out of the playoffs with this loss. With that being said, he played pretty well. He hit two threes in two shots and hit a mid range j out of two. 12pts 6rbs 1blk. I'm starting to have a change of heart with this guy since I'm seeing him with new eyes. Seeing him in a role. If he can continue to hit threes and the mid range j he has a shot to be a Serge Ibaka type player. And by that I mean in that mold. Lite or poor man's might work. In Europe, he's a lock down defender that can guard on the perimeter and the post. He switched players on multiple occasions and very rarely was he scored on. I didn't see one time he was scored on. Although I did miss bid and pieces of the game. Again the key to him being starter material is his j. He was on tonight and the last time I saw him he made them too so, there's that. He's a very versatile player. He even showed some post game against a smaller player, backing him down and flipping in a hook shot for a score. Might have a chance as a starter or as a back up 4or small ball 5.

[SAGirl]

So Livios team is out of the playoffs with this loss. With that being said, he played pretty well. He hit two threes in two shots and hit a mid range j out of two. 12pts 6rbs 1blk. I'm starting to have a change of heart with this guy since I'm seeing him with new eyes. Seeing him in a role. If he can continue to hit threes and the mid range j he has a shot to be a Serge Ibaka type player. And by that I mean in that mold. Lite or poor man's might work. In Europe, he's a lock down defender that can guard on the perimeter and the post. He switched players on multiple occasions and very rarely was he scored on. I didn't see one time he was scored on. Although I did miss bid and pieces of the game. Again the key to him being starter material is his j. He was on tonight and the last time I saw him he made them too so, there's that. He's a very versatile player. He even showed some post game against a smaller player, backing him down and flipping in a hook shot for a score. Might have a chance as a starter or as a back up 4or small ball 5.
Nice!!!
!Thanks for doing this review. He was very off in SL and then got injured, so he didn't even play the entire series of games. Him hitting jumpers is huge bc he was already very defensive minded. It would put him ahead of Cady who is a slower, less athletic player. Kind of excited to see him again. Hopefully the competition from all the noise Bertans camp is making has also made him ramp up his training. He might make the team fir sure with improvement.

[CGD]

Thanks for the insight.

A new perspective indeed. I think the jump shooting gives more creadance to the poor mans Serge idea (at least for me). No clue that he was working on the 3 ball. Based on prior summer league performances we already know his D will translate to the NBA.

[ceperez]

Thanks for the insight.

A new perspective indeed. I think the jump shooting gives more creadance to the poor mans Serge idea (at least for me). No clue that he was working on the 3 ball. Based on prior summer league performances we already know his D will translate to the NBA.

He's now 22 years old and hasn't made much progress in France. Spurs need to bring him in under a better program.

He's an unbelievable defensive talent that can get up really quickly, not only on the first jump but on second jumps. He should be signed next year.

[CGD]

Interesting recent interview. The Google translate kinda sucks but you can still get the gist:

http://www.basketusa.com/news/344064/interview-livio-jean-charles-je-minspire-de-ce-que-peut-faire-boris-diaw-par-exemple/

[Chinook]

Interesting recent interview. The Google translate kinda sucks but you can still get the gist:

http://www.basketusa.com/news/344064/interview-livio-jean-charles-je-minspire-de-ce-que-peut-faire-boris-diaw-par-exemple/

Do you wanna try out your Nono skils Brazil ?

[Chinook]

Seems that he isn't all too attached to the Spurs. He looks up to Diaw, so I think he'd want to be in SA. But he may also never WANT to make the jump, even though he suggests that's his goal. This should be his year, with him being a free agent. But according to Google, the team hasn't really visited him this season. That's interesting, and it might cool down some of my belief that he is a shoe-in to be over. I still think he'll be on the team, though. His agent should push him to take the team rookie-scale deal, and the team should want a cheap big to develop, especially if he's getting decent at making plays for others.

[Brazil]

^ it's a quite good wrap up Chinook tbh... Nevertheless in his interview you feel he is yes attached to the Spurs but he feels Spurs are a bit distant as of right now... He is struggling in French league due to lots of injuries here and there so he is not delusional about his chances to make the team short term. He wants to have his options opened, he is up to grab opportunities even it is to play in D league. Comparaison with Bobo is about playing the 4 rather than 3 and being a good passing big.

[Brazil]

If interested I can translate later this week the whole stuff but between chinook post and mine you have the general idea. Nothing new about Spurs and professionalism, he liked very much working with Becky and the usual blabla about trying to do what coach is asking. Finally he is saying his knee is 100% healed.

from that one can say that he is not an option short term for the Spurs... To be reevaluated in 2/3 years unless he takes off really during that span.

[CGD]

Thanks all.

What a nice kid indeed!! Setting aside the basketball aspects, he needs to push to come over if just for the financial aspect. This is possibly life changing money we're talking about. You sort out the rest later!

[Chinook]

^ it's a quite good wrap up Chinook tbh... Nevertheless in his interview you feel he is yes attached to the Spurs but he feels Spurs are a bit distant as of right now... He is struggling in French league due to lots of injuries here and there so he is not delusional about his chances to make the team short term. He wants to have his options opened, he is up to grab opportunities even it is to play in D league. Comparaison with Bobo is about playing the 4 rather than 3 and being a good passing big.

The thing is, if LJC is a free agent this summer, he has the unilateral right to claim his contract with the Spurs. I imagine he'd like that $2 Million-plus guaranteed. I would shock me if his agent didn't push him to do that, unless LJC is still not sold on being a Spur long term. It's strange that the team seems to have abandoned him, though. It's at least encouraging that his offense is reported getting better.

[SAGirl]

I caught that although he's been in touch with RC and Spurs staff the interest has lessened bc they haven't been to see him in person like they did last season. He's aware that defensively he did well in SL, but his offensive game still needs to develop in all areas, his all around game.

He's also still unsure if he's a 3 or a 4 and will do what the coaches tell him..

Hmmmm if you are 22 and still don't know what you are, what your game is, you are in trouble.

I think the issue with LJC is that he's athletic enough to be a good even very good defensive 3 or 4, but he has the offensive game of a 4 and maybe not even that if his shot is not good enough. But it did seem like he's still working on it.

He now seems to me like the kind of guy who will have to make a development leap and make noise in his league to get noticed.

I don't see him coming over with that indecision... but for sure the agent has to push him along.

Just the state of mind (correct me on this if wrong Brazil) is not as decisive as Bertans camp which is,making a lot of noise b4 Bertans even played a game this season about him coming to the NBA.

I am just less high on him after what I caught. He seemed aware that the Spurs are a long shot and his game is not good enough yet for the NBA. Not the same kind of drive and push that one hears from Bertans camp for example.

This is just my speculation, but it seems the Spurs interest was major when you consider that he could have forced the issue to be signed this last summer but now that they know he didn't make the leap they expected, he's on the same path as all foreign prospects.

[Brazil]

Livio is a very nice kid, a bit shy and unsure of himself...very coachable to a fault IMO. I agree with SAgirl, he should have an opinion on whether he is a 3 or a 4 and establish himself.

On a side note, let's not forget that he plays for TP team so it's not like Spurs don't have direct feedback on his progression so I don't think Spurs have abandoned him, that's probably just the way he feels... He really needs to become more confident tbh..

[CGD]

I'm less concerned about the 3 v 4 issue in this NBA. To the contrary that flexibility is huge these days. The shooting is encouraging.

Also, SAGirl, I don't think the leverage issue has gone away.

[Solid D]

It would have been nice to see higher production out of him. Asvel isn't a juggernaut team. The fact that injuries have inhibited him is understandable, but you'd hope to see better from a Round 1 pick. As of now, he's no better a pick than James Anderson was. Hopefully, he can get better player development help than he has been getting.

[duncan2150]

JCL last two games in french league :

10 pts 4/4 2pts 2/2 ft 4 rebounds(3 offensive) 1 steal 1 assist 1 to in 16 minutes

9 pts 3/4 2pts 1/1 3pts 7 rebounds( 4 offensive) 1 steal 2 assists in 21 minutes

He looks better this year

[raybies]

Solid defender, has potential to be Serge Ibaka lite if he can consistently hit the mid-range j. Might be a better on ball defender but less of a blocker. But I like that he's already playing a role he would play if he joined us next year.

[jyra]

I think Aminu is a pretty good comparison for him. He has almost the same build as Livio and plays the same high energy, hustle type of game. The defensive versatility is another thing they have in common. Aminu was a terrible shooter at the start of his career but he has become serviceable enough to become a really nice player. Let's hope that Livio can do the same.

[SAGirl]

Frankly considering our situation, needing young athletic bigs, Chinook has convinced me we need to bring this guy over this season. If we want a young athlete who is going to dedicate himself to defense he's the one. Raw and all, also a rookie, he could just be developing this next season and maybe situational here and there but we need youth and if we have the same old farts coming back then at least we need to bring him over. Pop: bring over this dude. :bang

[Chinook]

Livio is also 22. He'd've been a senior in college. It's possible that the Spurs draft someone older than him come June. It's a perfect time to bring him over and have him compete for the fourth-big spot. He's a better offensive player than people consider him to be, although he's not a good scorer. He sets screens, rolls hard and makes good passes. Team just needs to commit to him.

[Chinook]

Had the team brought him over last year like I expected, I think he would have played quite a few minutes with the big club. But they had Bonner.

[SAGirl]

Had the team brought him over last year like I expected, I think he would have played quite a few minutes with the big club. But they had Bonner.
Agreed it's frustrating. He looked very raw in SL, but out of all the bigs I saw him compete against he was the superior athlete, clearly. Just his shot was terrible. It looks like he's worked on that. It does irk me when people slam young projects who could even be entering the draft this season (not only LJC, but KA too), then go crazy over guys who are even older than they are and competing against inferior athletes and very young kids in the NCAA. At least LJC was not competing on what in reality is a juvenile amateur league in the NCAA and KA was in the NBA!!! Jeshhhh!

I will be upset if he's not brought over and we do pick up Bonner again (well for a shooter if we are honest it should be Bertans, bid Bonner adieu) but the Kmarts, A.Miller, and Rasual Butler's of the league.

I am starting to doubt Pop even wants to really develop a real supporting cast for Kawhi and LMA, if they keep bringing old farts and not developing the younger guys. That should be a priority. In fact if Manu and TD return it should be mostly for mentoring and leadership of youngsters at this stage, not for us to have the oldest team in the NBA to ever make the playoffs, surrounding LMA and Kawhi with the aged big 3 + all the old farts we can pick up in FA. :vomit:

I know you are not a fan of Simmons, but I do like him bc him and KA play very well together. I felt we would probably have been better served not picking up Kmart at all and just spent all those Kmart minutes on Simmons. He could have improved in those 200 minutes or whatever Kmart consumed, or he could have shown that he wasn't going to stick around the league, but at least you find out something. It's not time wasted. Either way it was a worthy investment of time. There were games Simmons flat out looked better than Kmart. If neither of the two was going to make a difference this season why waste all that time with Kmart? I felt in fact he made us worse.

I thought when Kmart came in was really when the team started to get in disarray. Pop got into some terrible lineups and experiments that altered chemistry and I don't think the bench really ever clicked in the last part of the season. He wasn't worth it! We were playing tremendously well then Kmart comes in and the bench played the worst they had played all season plus they were terrible in the playofffs. Their chemistry was altered with all those Kmart minutes. Pop should have just committed to KA with them, coached them up in aggressiveness, add a full dose of Simmons for all those Kmart minutes and call it a season.

I eased up on being critical of Kmart in the main boards bc ppl assume everything I write is on KA behalf (heh a lot is, but not all) when in reality I think we should have just continued developing Simmons and leave it at that. Kmart never convinced me he was even better than Simmons and he didn't convince Pop either. A lot of fans were hoping he would edge out KA from the rotation but he wasn't good enough for that. I think he wouldn't have even edged Simmons out.

/sigh huge rant I know. sorry. Bottom line I do agree LJC needs to come over and Pop has to make some space for developing within the win now at all costs mentality for the big 3. The two things need to be reconciled. We could be a better team in the short and long run if he committed to developing at least one you g player with potential each season... (I could go on a rant about the pick ups of Days Nd Ayers too, which I guess you would equal to low ceiling pick ups of much older players like JSimms. I hope JSimms doesn't turn out like them, but yeah 27 yrs old next season, meAntime there are young guards in this draft we could be taking.... but nooooo! Draft and stash per par, + a bunch of old dudes) :bang

[Chinook]

Agreed it's frustrating. He looked very raw in SL, but out of all the bigs I saw him compete against he was the superior athlete, clearly. Just his shot was terrible. It looks like he's worked on that. It does irk me when people slam young projects who could even be entering the draft this season (not only LJC, but KA too), then go crazy over guys who are even older than they are and competing against inferior athletes and very young kids in the NCAA. At least LJC was not competing on what in reality is a juvenile amateur league in the NCAA and KA was in the NBA!!! Jeshhhh!

I will be upset if he's not brought over and we do pick up Bonner again (well for a shooter if we are honest it should be Bertans, bid Bonner adieu) but the Kmarts, A.Miller, and Rasual Butler's of the league.

I am starting to doubt Pop even wants to really develop a real supporting cast for Kawhi and LMA, if they keep bringing old farts and not developing the younger guys. That should be a priority. In fact if Manu and TD return it should be mostly for mentoring and leadership of youngsters at this stage, not for us to have the oldest team in the NBA to ever make the playoffs, surrounding LMA and Kawhi with the aged big 3 + all the old farts we can pick up in FA. :vomit:

I know you are not a fan of Simmons, but I do like him bc him and KA play very well together. I felt we would probably have been better served not picking up Kmart at all and just spent all those Kmart minutes on Simmons. He could have improved in those 200 minutes or whatever Kmart consumed, or he could have shown that he wasn't going to stick around the league, but at least you find out something. It's not time wasted. Either way it was a worthy investment of time. There were games Simmons flat out looked better than Kmart. If neither of the two was going to make a difference this season why waste all that time with Kmart? I felt in fact he made us worse.

I thought when Kmart came in was really when the team started to get in disarray. Pop got into some terrible lineups and experiments that altered chemistry and I don't think the bench really ever clicked in the last part of the season. He wasn't worth it! We were playing tremendously well then Kmart comes in and the bench played the worst they had played all season plus they were terrible in the playofffs. Their chemistry was altered with all those Kmart minutes. Pop should have just committed to KA with them, coached them up in aggressiveness, add a full dose of Simmons for all those Kmart minutes and call it a season.

I eased up on being critical of Kmart in the main boards bc ppl assume everything I write is on KA behalf (heh a lot is, but not all) when in reality I think we should have just continued developing Simmons and leave it at that. Kmart never convinced me he was even better than Simmons and he didn't convince Pop either. A lot of fans were hoping he would edge out KA from the rotation but he wasn't good enough for that. I think he wouldn't have even edged Simmons out.

/sigh huge rant I know. sorry. Bottom line I do agree LJC needs to come over and Pop has to make some space for developing within the win now at all costs mentality for the big 3. The two things need to be reconciled. We could be a better team in the short and long run if he committed to developing at least one you g player with potential each season... (I could go on a rant about the pick ups of Days Nd Ayers too, which I guess you would equal to low ceiling pick ups of much older players like JSimms. I hope JSimms doesn't turn out like them, but yeah 27 yrs old next season, meAntime there are young guards in this draft we could be taking.... but nooooo! Draft and stash per par, + a bunch of old dudes) :bang

I really hope you didn't plunk that whole thing out on your phone.

But yes, I agree. I think Pop's been in reloading-not-rebuilding mode since Duncan arrived. Really, besides Parker and Leonard, he hasn't developed players like he should have. He's only had a handful of years where he even had a rookie first-rounder on his team -- especially one draft that same year. Off the top of my head, I think it's been Parker, Beno, Hill, Anderson (the King James version), Kawhi/Cory then Kyle. At least that's since 2001, so we are talking about six years in 15. Even if you add high-second-rounder Blair, that's only seven.

The team's lack of young developing players has hit them a couple of times during my fandom. The first was 2008-2009 when they really didn't have hope for internal improvement (which led to the Jefferson trade), and the second time was this season. That former drought was broken by Hill getting into the rotation eventually to be replaced by Green, Leonard and Mills as well as Splitter coming over in 2010.

There isn't a Splitter or Hill coming to save the team this year. Prospects like Tiago are rare, and they are becoming less likely to drop. The closest one who's overseas now is Saric, and look where he went. I'm of fan of Lvio, but he's not on that list. Neither is Bertans or Milutinov. And Anderson is the closest thing to Hill the Spurs have, but he still have a way to go. The Spurs will likely not be able to use him to swing another Leonard trade.

Pop's gonna have to grind. The team can't go into the year with 15 guaranteed roster spots again. They'll have to be flexible and potentially willing to bring guys up from the d-league or from overseas mid-season. The amount of young talent acquired from late 2011 to early 2013 (Green, Leonard, Joseph, Diaw, Patty and Baynes) was unreal. That can't be expected to happen again But some at least half as good needs to occur or else the team is just going to be spinning its wheels for a while.

[SAGirl]

^^^ :lol tablet, still letting it all out took time.. sigh of relief!!!!:lmao
I think they only added Cory bc RC knew him personally since he played in college with his son. If you think about it, he barely played his first two seasons, he was in the team when Pop had a glut of guards and took a long time to flourish. They were really patient with Cory.

I was commenting to someone else that we shouldn't even feel bad Pop passed on Jimmy Butler for Cojo, bc had RC not had an eye on Cojo to begin with, we probably don't pick up anyone to bring over anyway. That pick instead of Cojo could have turned to a draft and stash. At least we had Cojo 2 good years.

Yup the well has run dry. I have my own hopes with KA, but he's limited by athleticism. I think he will have to improve his shooting, the path KLove took, a guy who is very unathletic and who, if it wasn't for his shooting would be a blip on the radar. Shooting was not ever Kyle's thing though, so it takes time. He's going to have to make a development leap offensively, frankly maybe even next season if Pop sticks with Manu and doesn't bring a FA for the bench.

Manu just can't carry the bench. Not to irk any Manu fans out there but he was in deferral mode for much of the latter part of the season. It really has to be on someone younger in that bench. I think Pop had his eye on Patty, but Patty is a bad choice bc he's so small he can't get passes cleanly at times, or get his own shot cleanly despite a quick release bc he's that small. He's better being a pressure relief valve for someone else.

When the Spurs put the burden on Kawhi he was already formidable in some ways, but he struggled initially as the guy last season, with ball handling, double teams, decision making, passing, shooting, etc. He was inconsistent and had some ugly games. Our offense was even clunkier than this season. Pop just had to live with that and let Kawhi learn. I bring this up not to shit on Kawhi (his development has been amazing), but to bring up the fact that it's also going to take KA his own struggling growth to turn into the guy. Kyle seemed like he was scared to piss off the old Pop forcing issues bc it wasn't his role. It really, really wasn't his role this season, that's also something others don't understand. I think he had to prove to Pop he was an NBA player to begin with (makes perfect sense) and that he wasn't going to be lazy on defense, that he would compete b4 Pop committed to him.

Maybe we should have just spent the last 20 games of the season having him force up the issue at times, even if it was ugly. But since we were not going to play off him this season Pop only did that in a couple or so games. One he was terrible, the Denver game, one he was fine, Dallas. It will happen. The last 20 games didn't matter record wise and Pop could have gotten a more aggressive young player out of that + develop Simmons, but instead we got a bunch of Kmart. :lol

[Keepin' it real]

Agreed it's frustrating. He looked very raw in SL,

That's an understatement. He was hot garbage.

[Ditty]

LJC had moments that he flashed especially defensively that he looked like man vs boys out there being only 21 years old last summer. He still has a lot of room to improve on the offensive end, and don't think he has a bad shooting form, his defense/athleticism alone is worthy to be in the NBA. They need to bring him over plain and simple as a 4th/5th possibly developmental talent in Austin at least. I don't think the Spurs have to give him the rookie scale contract either so I don't see why he wouldn't come over.

[Chinook]

LJC had moments that he flashed especially defensively that he looked like man vs boys out there being only 21 years old last summer. He still has a lot of room to improve on the offensive end, and don't think he has a bad shooting form, his defense/athleticism alone is worthy to be in the NBA. They need to bring him over plain and simple as a 4th/5th possibly developmental talent in Austin at least. I don't think the Spurs have to give him the rookie scale contract either so I don't see why he wouldn't come over.

They have to give him at least a three-year deal starting at at least the rookie scale.

[objective]

I've watched a couple of his Eurocup games recently and he ranged from unremarkable to terrible. Maybe the last one I watched was the worst game of the season, but it would have been harder to be worse, easily the worst player on the court.

He just isn't THAT great an athlete to overcome some severe lack of skills in the games I've watched. Small sample size, but he looks way, way behind the other kept draft & washers. Maybe he was still recovering from his injury, but his physical tools aren't that impressive.

He was getting wrecked on the glass against euro 4s, bad screens, turning down 3s, zero handle, ineffective footwork, turnovers, bad passes, bad drives, not strong enough or leveraged enough to defend bigs ...

I'll watch more games. But in all the euro picks that I was able to watch games over the years, LJC had the worst single game of all (Sanikidze, Mahinmi, De Colo, Hanga, Bertans, Javtokas, Milutinov, Dangubic, splitter, Scola).

Milutinov by contrast looks like he could play minutes right now, rotation minutes.

[palangi]

That's good to hear about mulitunov. We need an athletic big.

[SAGirl]

I looked up LJC in Asvel's youtube channel a little bit. They have some highlights of recent games. Livio is # 8.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qjRwixyOD_U

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BczUzex5pB4

He is played as a 4 by ASVEL and he mostly sets screens and rolls. He's definitely not a wing offensively, but he could defend wings, that's probably his best asset, but he doesn't have the offensive game to go with it. In some of the highlights (they are general team highlights) one can see that he has nice lateral feet movement on defense and rolls with quickness to the basket.

He is a nice interior passer, passing to the team's center in a couple of the highlights. He made a 3 but he has a weird shot form, it doesn't look like a repeatable shot and he's only shooting 12.5% on the 3.

He averages 21 minutes for ASVEL and they obviously use him in ways that suit that team. He hasn't seemed insistent enough on coming over to the NBA, and without reliable shooting he's just J.Ayers' like (athletic big, size of a 4 but with no shooting, the game of a 5). It's noteworthy that he has a different game from the one I have seen from Cady, who in highlights looks like he shoots way more jumpshots (plenty of 3s though only at 33%), and has a crafty post up game. Cady is a more versatile offensive player than LJC, but he's less nimble of feet. That's the bottom line comparison between the two.

I don't think he's picked up by Spurs unless his agent applies pressure, and he would be bound for the dleague, but if only he added shooting...

[objective]

There's full games of ASVEL in the Eurocup on YouTube to really get a handle on how he plays.

[SAGirl]

There's full games of ASVEL in the Eurocup on YouTube to really get a handle on how he plays.
Oh thanks I didn't know that :tu
Highlights were fine for a quick browsing though.

[objective]

This is was the terrible game

https://youtu.be/MirZWplKeEs

[palangi]

He is long. But he looks awkward moving and has very little feel for the game.

[Chinook]

Legend.

[Drom John]

Drom John (Macon, Georgia)

Do you have WARP projections for Davis Bertans and Livio Jean-Charles and other internationals who are allegedly coming over?


Kevin Pelton (3:46 PM)

Bertans looks like a fringe rotation player at this point. Jean-Charles hasn't projected as an NBA-caliber player since his ACL injury.

[SAGirl]

^ Thanks for sharing Drom! :tu

[Mr. Body]

This sounds right. Bertans may possibly contribute here and there while LJC doesn't belong in this league.

[sinok]

Seems like he actually signed a contract with the spurs.
Well, he'll be in Austin for a while...

http://www.nba.com/spurs/san-antonio-signs-livio-jean-charles/

[Chinook]

I've watched a couple of his Eurocup games recently and he ranged from unremarkable to terrible. Maybe the last one I watched was the worst game of the season, but it would have been harder to be worse, easily the worst player on the court.

He just isn't THAT great an athlete to overcome some severe lack of skills in the games I've watched. Small sample size, but he looks way, way behind the other kept draft & washers. Maybe he was still recovering from his injury, but his physical tools aren't that impressive.

He was getting wrecked on the glass against euro 4s, bad screens, turning down 3s, zero handle, ineffective footwork, turnovers, bad passes, bad drives, not strong enough or leveraged enough to defend bigs ...

I'll watch more games. But in all the euro picks that I was able to watch games over the years, LJC had the worst single game of all (Sanikidze, Mahinmi, De Colo, Hanga, Bertans, Javtokas, Milutinov, Dangubic, splitter, Scola).

Milutinov by contrast looks like he could play minutes right now, rotation minutes.

This jives with what we saw during the SL. Only thing that's positive is that he seemed to have a good sense of what the right play was, even though he wasn't always aware of what his role in that play was supposed to be.

[BackHome]

If the kid was some athletic freak then I can see us hanging on to him because of his potential. But he is not I know he did the team a solid by waiting to come over but I just don't see him developing to anything above D - League.

[CGD]

How's he looked in the d-league so far?

[SAGirl]

Not great.




Season
Tm
G
GS
MP
FG
FGA
FG%
3P
3PA
3P%
2P
2PA
2P%
FT
FTA
FT%
ORB
DRB
TRB
AST
STL
BLK
TOV
PF
PTS


2016-17 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/dleague/years/2017.html)
AUS (http://www.basketball-reference.com/dleague/teams/AUS/2017.html)
4
3
28.0
4.0
7.0
.571
0.0
0.0

4.0
7.0
.571
1.5
1.8
.857
2.5
5.8
8.3
1.5
0.8
0.5
2.5
3.3
9.5


Career

4
3
28.0
4.0
7.0
.571
0.0
0.0

4.0
7.0
.571
1.5
1.8
.857
2.5
5.8
8.3
1.5
0.8
0.5
2.5
3.3
9.5

[Maddog]

Well 1 for 2 there Mr. Pelton
Looking at the D League stats, he will probably never be an NBA player. Well, pre-injury seemed like a good pick.

[Chinook]

The offensive stats aren't horrible. 10/8/2 in 28 minutes is fine given how many people are ahead of him on offense. But he really needs more defensive stats. Dude has no chance in the league if he can't dominate on that end.

[cjw]

The offensive stats aren't horrible. 10/8/2 in 28 minutes is fine given how many people are ahead of him on offense. But he really needs more defensive stats. Dude has no chance in the league if he can't dominate on that end.

Outside of the turnover rate, those offensive stats are fine in a vacuum. But without any shooting range, he's got to be 80% of Tony Allen to get another call up.

[TheGreatYacht]

Chinook did the Pacers draft Bertans, or did RC tell them to pick him?

If that was all Larry Bird.... then enough is enough. RC has to quit drafting euro bums. He's clearly bad at it. Tony Parker was Presti's guy

LJC, Milutinov, etc etc. waste of picks

[Chinook]

Chinook (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=37557) did the Pacers draft Bertans, or did RC tell them to pick him?

If that was all Larry Bird.... then enough is enough. RC has to quit drafting euro bums. He's clearly bad at it. Tony Parker was Presti's guy

LJC, Milutinov, etc etc. waste of picks

RC told him to. Bertans was rumored to the Spurs at 29 for weeks before the draft. He would probably have been their pick had no trade gone down.

[TheGreatYacht]

RC told him to. Bertans was rumored to the Spurs at 29 for weeks before the draft. He would probably have been their pick had no trade gone down.
Gotcha thanks :tu

[CGD]

Any one see him play in Austin? Any flashed or is he completely done for?

[duncan2150]

He was playing yesterday in french semi final with Asvel vs Strasbourg, had a nice game with 14 pts ( 7/12 ) 9 rebounds 3 assists 1 block and made the game winner with 4 sec left. Looks like he's in a better shape than a year ago.

[CGD]

He was playing yesterday in french semi final with Asvel vs Strasbourg, had a nice game with 14 pts ( 7/12 ) 9 rebounds 3 assists 1 block and made the game winner with 4 sec left. Looks like he's in a better shape than a year ago.

Nice find! Not holding my breath on this guy, but would be good to see him at summer league again. Spurs need cheap labor

[duncan2150]

I was surprised to see him, i agree with you i'm not sold on him now, all will depend on his physical.

[BackHome]

He actually played really good with the Toros this year he had a couple double double games. You can see a difference In that his spring is back and I was surprised he is a pretty good passer and his mid range shit was also good. If he continues I can actually see him making the roster next year.

[palangi]

He actually played really good with the Toros this year he had a couple double double games. You can see a difference In that his spring is back and I was surprised he is a pretty good passer and his mid range shit was also good. If he continues I can actually see him making the roster next year.

Can't pass up that mid range shit... ha!:lol

[BackHome]

Tell that to Green. Lol

[palangi]

Tell that to Green. Lol

Ha ha!

[DavidTheGoliath]

https://youtu.be/Cp3mMh9oGiE

[2stroong4me]

https://www.bece.com.au/uncategorized/stargames-casino-no-deposit-bonus/