Breaking down Rockets vs OKC matchups

[ElNono]

Lin = Wesbrook
Harden >>>>>>> Sefolosha
Parsons <<<<<<< Durant
Asik >>> Ibaka
Motiejunas > Perkins

Beverly >>>>> Fisher
Delfino >> Martin

[Robz4000]

Sounds about right

[irishock]

:lol Chink = Westbrook

[jeebus]

Westchink?

[Trainwreck2100]

Westbrook closing games

[Richie]

Parsons is closer to Durant than Lin is to Westbrook

[SpursBills]

lol LkrFan

[Kai]

Dynamite analysis.

[sook]

Parsons is closer to Durant than Lin is to Westbrook
This...parsons is rudiculously underrated...I can't believe we seriously got this guy in the 2nd round....6'10" agile, handles and can shoot really well now too. If we play well and win its going to because he is playing well. When this guy is on he does more than Harden does IMO, since his length allows him to finish better and he is more streaky.

[Thread]

I hope the Thunder pound that ass till it squirts blood.

[thunderup]

Lin <<<<<<< Wesbrook
Harden >>>>>>> Sefolosha
Parsons <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Durant
Asik << Ibaka
Motiejunas > Perkins

Beverly < Fisher
Delfino << Martin
Fixed.

[whitemamba]

wonder if harden is going to choke or not.

[Thread]

wonder if harden is going to choke or not.

See if he has some Gasol Family in him.

[GuerillaBlack]

This...parsons is rudiculously underrated...I can't believe we seriously got this guy in the 2nd round....6'10" agile, handles and can shoot really well now too. If we play well and win its going to because he is playing well. When this guy is on he does more than Harden does IMO, since his length allows him to finish better and he is more streaky.

He also isn't terrible on Durant and always rises up in big games.

[racm]

This...parsons is rudiculously underrated...I can't believe we seriously got this guy in the 2nd round....6'10" agile, handles and can shoot really well now too. If we play well and win its going to because he is playing well. When this guy is on he does more than Harden does IMO, since his length allows him to finish better and he is more streaky.

Second best SF of his draft.

[Latarian Milton]

Rin = westchuck is a stupid equation imho. frog mutant can be a cancer playing out of his character, but when he plays in his right mind he's hands down the best attacking PG of the world and no one can stop him. dude has the potential to be twice the player tony parker is imho. he just needs the right guidance which the thunder have none to give him, which's why he often looks inconsistent, but dude's ceiling is in the sky tbh

[dylankerouac]

Lin needs to be aggressive and take at least twice as many shots (not chucks) as he does. In 3 of the 4 games they've played (all losses) against each other this season Lin only averages 7 measly attempts. Slow the pace, speed up the pace, play smart.

In the Rockets lone victory Lin had 12-22 makes, and Parsons and beard dominated. Unfortunately, I don't think that's likely to happen again.

Anyway, I think any improvement with this team is going to start and end with Lin. Use that brain son.

[dylankerouac]

<Was hoping for an entertaining series.

[sook]

Play Brooks.

[Brunodf]

:lolPaying 8mil/yr for Lin

[Thread]

:lolPaying 8mil/yr for Lin

Media won't talk about that. It's a yellow thing.

[OKC]

Lin = Wesbrook
Harden >>>>>>> Sefolosha
Parsons <<<<<<< Durant
Asik >>> Ibaka
Motiejunas > Perkins

Beverly >>>>> Fisher
Delfino >> Martin

RU Fkn Serious?? Please tell me you have more of a brain than this.
Lin = Westbrook?! That's just blatant retardation on your part.
Asik > Ibaka?
Delfino > Martin?

You've given every single individual matchup to Houston, other than Durant. You. Are. Not. Very. Smart.

[Brazil]

RU Fkn Serious?? Please tell me you have more of a brain than this.
Lin = Westbrook?! That's just blatant retardation on your part.
Asik > Ibaka?
Delfino > Martin?

You've given every single individual matchup to Houston, other than Durant. You. Are. Not. Very. Smart.

or he is trolling you and it is working

[OKC]

or he is trolling you and it is working

Man, I don't know. I usually take people at their word. If that's what he's doing, then ok - it apparently worked on me.

[ElNono]

:lol

I do still think Asik >> Ibaka and Delfino >> Martin... Asik was great while he was not in foul trouble last night, and Martin was 2-7 and -7 until garbage time (the whole OKC bench was negative)

But I'll definitely have to review the chinksanity = westchuck comparison. They both have terrible decision-making, but chinksanity is a turnover machine. On athleticism alone, Beverly should just be getting his minutes.

You really can't draw many conclusions with just one OKC home game. This series is probably going 6 or 7 if chinaman sits down, so there's still plenty of basketball yet to be played.

[OKC]

Asik is pretty decent, although I'm not sure an Ibaka style player is really who you compare Asik to. Ibaka was actually fairly brilliant with 17 pts, 7 boards, and 3 blocks last night.

[ElNono]

Asik is pretty decent, although I'm not sure an Ibaka style player is really who you compare Asik to. Ibaka was actually fairly brilliant with 17 pts, 7 boards, and 3 blocks last night.

I need to match up Asik (who is pretty much the only talented big Rockets have) with whoever is the most talented OKC big, which we all know it's not Perkins.

Ibaka had a good game, but we'll see how sustainable it is. He's a 10ppg average guy. He's a great help defender but individually he's pretty poor. Asik had 9 and 7 while being in foul trouble early.

It's going to be difficult for Asik and Parsons to stay out of foul trouble in this series, for obvious reasons, tbh.

[GuerillaBlack]

:lol

I do still think Asik >> Ibaka and Delfino >> Martin... Asik was great while he was not in foul trouble last night, and Martin was 2-7 and -7 until garbage time (the whole OKC bench was negative)

But I'll definitely have to review the chinksanity = westchuck comparison. They both have terrible decision-making, but chinksanity is a turnover machine. On athleticism alone, Beverly should just be getting his minutes.

You really can't draw many conclusions with just one OKC home game. This series is probably going 6 or 7 if chinaman sits down, so there's still plenty of basketball yet to be played.

First playoff game and he had some dumb turnovers in the second where the game started getting away for the final time. That stretch killed the Rockets chances. I hope they play better in the second game.

[sook]

no I think Lin just sucks.

[OKC]

I need to match up Asik (who is pretty much the only talented big Rockets have) with whoever is the most talented OKC big, which we all know it's not Perkins.

Ibaka had a good game, but we'll see how sustainable it is. He's a 10ppg average guy. He's a great help defender but individually he's pretty poor. Asik had 9 and 7 while being in foul trouble early.

It's going to be difficult for Asik and Parsons to stay out of foul trouble in this series, for obvious reasons, tbh.

No, he's a 13.2 ppg guy. Asik is more crafty around the rim, but beyond that I just don't know what he brings that would exceed that of Ibaka. Ibaka, to me, is quickly becoming the best perimeter shooting frontcourt player in the entire league. Yeah, one can claim some of that is due to being wide open, but honestly at this point the word is out. Ibaka is on the short leash now with the opposition and he's routinely hitting the 15-18 footers in isolation and with a hand in the face, not to mention the corner 3.

[Jodelo]

No, he's a 13.2 ppg guy. Asik is more crafty around the rim, but beyond that I just don't know what he brings that would exceed that of Ibaka. Ibaka, to me, is quickly becoming the best perimeter shooting frontcourt player in the entire league. Yeah, one can claim some of that is due to being wide open, but honestly at this point the word is out. Ibaka is on the short leash now with the opposition and he's routinely hitting the 15-18 footers in isolation and with a hand in the face, not to mention the corner 3.

:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao

[ElNono]

No, he's a 13.2 ppg guy.



Career Playoff Averages


http://i.cdn.turner.com/nba/nba/media/homepage/stats_header_lft.gif




Year
Team
G
GS
MPG
FG%
3P%
FT%
OFF
DEF
RPG
APG
SPG
BPG
TO
PF
PPG


09-10
OKC
6
0
25.5
0.571

0.000
0.700
2.2
4.3
6.5
0.3
0.3
2.0
1.00
3.17
7.8


10-11
OKC
17
17
28.8
0.462
0.000
0.825
2.8
4.5
7.3
0.2
0.2
3.1
1.24
3.76
9.8


11-12
OKC
20
20
28.4
0.528

0.250
0.722
2.4
3.4
5.8
0.6
0.6
3.0
0.55
2.85
9.8




Asik is more crafty around the rim, but beyond that I just don't know what he brings that would exceed that of Ibaka.

He's a much better one on one defender and he actually has a 'big' game. He's basically Perkins type of defender and actually has a post game.


Ibaka, to me, is quickly becoming the best perimeter shooting frontcourt player in the entire league.

Yeah, one can claim some of that is due to being wide open, but honestly at this point the word is out. Ibaka is on the short leash now with the opposition and he's routinely hitting the 15-18 footers in isolation and with a hand in the face, not to mention the corner 3.

A 'stretch-4' that shoots 35% from downtown isn't that great. What he does have is athleticism for putbacks. As a 'big' he's basically mediocre (poor individual defense, no post game), as a perimeter treat he's also so-so (limited range). He stands out as help defender though. He's severely overpaid for what he brings.

tbh, nobody is scared of Ibaka. Most teams will live with his 10ppg... If you're playing OKC, Durant is your main concern. Used to be Durant and Harden, but now it's just Durant.

[OKC]

He averages over 13 a game. Why do you keep spitting out 10ppg? You're 30% off, man. If you're gonna use stats, use accurate stats. Ibaka shot 47% from 16-23 feet on the season. You're not gonna find many players in the entire league that shoot that % from that range, given you look at players who at at least shoot 2-3 attempts a game from that range. Among frontcourt players, the only guys shooting that type of % are Duncan and Bosh. So to say he's so-so from the perimeter displays your lack of understanding for what the guy actually does and your lack of knowledge of his stats. If I'm the opposition, I kind of want to pay attention to a guy who is near the top in the entire league at shooting from 16-23 feet. A bit odd for a Spurs fan to claim that Serge Ibaka is of no concern to him given the fact that Ibaka lit the Spurs up in the playoffs last year. Obviously, Kevin Durant is of much more concern to an opponent than Ibaka is - that kinda goes without saying, doesn't it?

[ElNono]

He averages over 13 a game. Why do you keep spitting out 10ppg? You're 30% off, man. If you're gonna use stats, use accurate stats.

Because regular season is not the playoffs. Any player can stat-pad against shitty teams. When he starts averaging 13ppg during the actual playoffs, we'll update the numbers, until then, he's a 9.8ppg player.


Ibaka shot 47% from 16-23 feet on the season. You're not gonna find many players in the entire league that shoot that % from that range, given you look at players who at at least shoot 2-3 attempts a game from that range. Among frontcourt players, the only guys shooting that type of % are Duncan and Bosh.

Cherry picking stats means nothing. The 2-point jumpshot is the worst quality shot you can take. An actual 7 footer taking nothing but jumpshoots is terrible. Both Duncan and Bosh actually have a back-to-the-basket post game, and they obviously shot over 50% from there. Most bigs do. Asik does.


So to say he's so-so from the perimeter displays your lack of understanding for what the guy actually does and your lack of knowledge of his stats. If I'm the opposition, I kind of want to pay attention to a guy who is near the top in the entire league at shooting from 16-23 feet.

If he plays in the perimeter, then you compare him to perimeter players, and 47%/35% is so-so (actually, the 3 point percentage is pretty mediocre). Compared to other stretch-4s, a scrub like Jamison is shooting pretty much the same (46%/36%), and even scrubs like Bonner are way superior (48%/44%).


A bit odd for a Spurs fan to claim that Serge Ibaka is of no concern to him given the fact that Ibaka lit the Spurs up in the playoffs last year. Obviously, Kevin Durant is of much more concern to an opponent than Ibaka is - that kinda goes without saying, doesn't it?

Serge had a couple of good games against us, but what did us in was KD and, above all, Harden. We had no answers for him. Surprised OKC fan still doesn't know what their weaknesses are after Miami thoroughly cleaned that clock last season.

[OKC]

Well in my perfect world, Ibaka would have an all word post game as well and transform himself into the next Hakeem Olajuwon, but that's not happening. I realize his post game leaves a lot to be desired. However, as it stands, he shoots the perimeter shot at near 50%. So I suppose if the defense thinks like you do in that a 7 footer shooting jumpers is a terrible shot, then they can just lay back, give him a 5-6 foot cushion and let him fire away and see how that works out.

You seem to be deviating from the argument here, which was Asik vs Ibaka. I'm not making the claim that Ibaka is an all world superstar here. I simply stated that, yes, Asik has a superior post game, but outside that I felt Ibaka was the superior player. That's not really an outrageous claim. YOu act like I'm comparing Ibaka to Tim Duncan or something.

[ElNono]

Well in my perfect world, Ibaka would have an all word post game as well and transform himself into the next Hakeem Olajuwon, but that's not happening. I realize his post game leaves a lot to be desired. However, as it stands, he shoots the perimeter shot at near 50%. So I suppose if the defense thinks like you do in that a 7 footer shooting jumpers is a terrible shot, then they can just lay back, give him a 5-6 foot cushion and let him fire away and see how that works out.

It works out just like with Westbrook: You much rather have those taking jumpers than giving KD one more opportunity to flail his arms and shot two more freebies. I don't think this is any kind of revelation. The 10ppg game isn't the difference maker, the 30ppg guy is.


You seem to be deviating from the argument here, which was Asik vs Ibaka. I'm not making the claim that Ibaka is an all world superstar here. I simply stated that, yes, Asik has a superior post game, but outside that I felt Ibaka was the superior player. That's not really an outrageous claim. YOu act like I'm comparing Ibaka to Tim Duncan or something.

Hey, you dragged Duncan and Bosh into this conversation, I brought up Jamison or Bonner, which, IMO, are basically what Ibaka's game is. The reality is that I should've compared Asik with Perkins, but Perk is a statue on offense, so I have to compare against Ibaka on a production-value basis, more than actual position or type of play.

[OKC]

I only brought up Bosh in Duncan in terms of a specific range jumpshot. I wasn't comparing Ibaka's overall offensive game to theirs. I understand why you are comparing Asik to Ibaka and not Perkins. I'm not intending to make Ibaka into a player he isn't. I simply believe he's an outstanding perimeter jump shooter, no more and no less really, as far as offense goes. 47% from 16-23 feet is outstanding, anyway you look at it. I do believe he can develop more of an offensive game, though.

Yes, you want the ball in Ibaka's hands rather than KD's. Again - that goes without saying. I don't think you want it out of KD's hands so badly that you give an Ibaka wide open 15 footers all night long though. I mean as a coach, if you pick that poison and he hits 5, 6, 7 in a row on you, at some point you have to rethink what you're doing.

[thunderup]

Did ElNono forget to log into Clipper Nation? Holy shit his takes and attempts at trolling in Thunder-related discussions are a joke.

[Thread]

Did ElNono forget to log into Clipper Nation? Holy shit his takes and attempts at trolling in Thunder-related discussions are a joke.

Set a cherry on top of him.

[ElNono]

I only brought up Bosh in Duncan in terms of a specific range jumpshot. I wasn't comparing Ibaka's overall offensive game to theirs. I understand why you are comparing Asik to Ibaka and not Perkins. I'm not intending to make Ibaka into a player he isn't. I simply believe he's an outstanding perimeter jump shooter, no more and no less really, as far as offense goes. 47% from 16-23 feet is outstanding, anyway you look at it. I do believe he can develop more of an offensive game, though.

If I had to pick what he does best, I think he's probably the league's best help defender. I don't think his offense is anything to write home about though, especially for a big. So we'll disagree there.


Yes, you want the ball in Ibaka's hands rather than KD's. Again - that goes without saying. I don't think you want it out of KD's hands so badly that you give an Ibaka wide open 15 footers all night long though. I mean as a coach, if you pick that poison and he hits 5, 6, 7 in a row on you, at some point you have to rethink what you're doing.

Good coaches rarely knee jerk because they understand how odds work. If OKC beats you with Ibaka shooting jumpers from 16-23 while KD watches, then you tip your hat and move on. Every player can have a fluke game, that's why there's 7 games to a series, so such flukes eventually have less of an impact.

[ElNono]

Did ElNono forget to log into Clipper Nation? Holy shit his takes and attempts at trolling in Thunder-related discussions are a joke.

clearly not working... :lol

[spurraider21]

If Asik could hit the Kurt Thomas jumper it would do worlds for his game, and would allow him to complement a fellow post up player, should the rockets make a splash in free agency

[ElNono]

BTW thunderup, we're having a solid conversation here with OKC fan... anything you want to add pardner?

[ElNono]

dp

[dylankerouac]

Can't help but post a few comments here:

Ibaka had 17 points last night so he's averaging 17 ppg this playoffs, 17ppg > 13ppg. And he did this in 4 fewer minutes.

This regular season Ibaka averaged 59.6%(!!!!!!!) on his 10 < 16 ft jumpers. Holy crap. We keep saying we'll take it when he shoots these, but this has become a regular occurrence. This shot needs to be respected and defended. He had some of these last night too and I hope the Spurs don't ignore these shots if they meet in the WCF. That is 12% higher than KD reg season avg and almost 20% higher than Duncan who has grown more accustomed to involving his mid-range game. Umm yeah I'd rather KD take that shot if I had to choose. At least KD is being defended.

Ibaka also bested Duncan's 16ft < 3 pt shot by 5% and KD by 4.5%. Again, the dude has a legit mid-range game that needs to be respected. He shot these at 47.5%.

Excuse my use of Duncan, obviously I watch him the most and think his mid-range game is pretty reliable.

Now, ElNono's argument about all this applying in the regular season is still valid so I guess we'll have to wait and see how he's shooting after some more games during this post-season, though Ibaka did shoot 64% last night with a mixture of shots.

[thunderup]

BTW thunderup, we're having a solid conversation here with OKC fan... anything you want to add pardner? OKC makes strong points all around. Could've have said the same better. It sounds like you're still asshurt from Ibaka going HAM against your team.

:lol @ giving Serge, a statistically great mid-range shooter, look after look and then chalking it up to a "fluke".

[ElNono]

OKC makes strong points all around. Could've have said the same better. It sounds like you're still asshurt from Ibaka going HAM against your team.

:lol @ giving Serge, a statistically great mid-range shooter, look after look and then chalking it up to a "fluke".

We got beat by Harden/Durant, why would I be asshurt about Ibaka? That makes no sense.

He's a 10ppg player, anything over, it's a fluke. Facts don't lie.

[OKC]

59% from 10-16 feet. There you have it. Ive heard a lot of "fluke" talk surrounding Ibaka on this board, primarily from the 11-11 game he had in the playoffs. Sure, 11-11 is kind of a once in a year type shooting performance for the guy, but at some point, when a guy consistently shoots for 2 seasons near 50% in the 16-23 foot range, 59% from 10-16 feet...it goes from what you think is a fluke to a consistent aspect of his game that you can't just ignore. And it's not as if these high %'s are based on low attempts. Ibaka attempts as many 16-23 footers per game as KD does. Sure, he benefits from the players around him and being open enough to get off clean attempts, but either way, he's shooting at a % that forces a defense to keep close tabs on him. I think the word fluke should be officially retired in terms of using it to describe Ibaka's jumpshot.

[Captivus]

... frog mutant ...
This gets me every time!! :lmao I'm an idiot!!

[OKC]

We got beat by Harden/Durant, why would I be asshurt about Ibaka? That makes no sense.

He's a 10ppg player, anything over, it's a fluke. Facts don't lie.

Get ready for some more fluke games then.

[thunderup]

We got beat by Harden/Durant, why would I be asshurt about Ibaka? That makes no sense.

He's a 10ppg player, anything over, it's a fluke. Facts don't lie.
:lol bitter Spur fan STILL thinking 11/11 was a fluke
:lol Serge licking his chops just at the thought of again facing an unathletic and immobile Spurs frontcourt

[ElNono]

59% from 10-16 feet. There you have it. Ive heard a lot of "fluke" talk surrounding Ibaka on this board, primarily from the 11-11 game he had in the playoffs. Sure, 11-11 is kind of a once in a year type shooting performance for the guy, but at some point, when a guy consistently shoots for 2 seasons near 50% in the 16-23 foot range, 59% from 10-16 feet...it goes from what you think is a fluke to a consistent aspect of his game that you can't just ignore. And it's not as if these high %'s are based on low attempts. Ibaka attempts as many 16-23 footers per game as KD does. Sure, he benefits from the players around him and being open enough to get off clean attempts, but either way, he's shooting at a % that forces a defense to keep close tabs on him. I think the word fluke should be officially retired in terms of using it to describe Ibaka's jumpshot.


:lol bitter Spur fan STILL thinking 11/11 was a fluke
:lol Serge licking his chops just at the thought of again facing an unathletic and immobile Spurs frontcourt

Of course it's a fluke. Going 11-11 isn't shooting 50% nor averaging 10ppg.. (13ppg at best). Math isn't that hard.

I mean, if he can go 11-11 no sweat, why didn't he save some of that for the Finals :lol

[Monster1776]

*yawn* Are Spur fans still whining about how much of a fluke Ibaka's shooting is? Hold on a second... Ibaka tiene un buen tiro de salto. No es suerte. Tú todos consiguió martillado el año pasado y se consigue martillado otra vez. Deseando rasgando un culo nuevo.

[Monster1776]

Of course it's a fluke. Going 11-11 isn't shooting 50% nor averaging 10ppg.. (13ppg at best). Math isn't that hard.

I mean, if he can go 11-11 no sweat, why didn't he save some of that for the Finals :lol

Maybe because we weren't playing a shitty old Spurs team? Maybe because he had to go against an athletic Bosh instead of Tim? Common sense isn't that hard.

[thunderup]

Of course it's a fluke. Going 11-11 isn't shooting 50% nor averaging 10ppg.. (13ppg at best). Math isn't that hard.

I mean, if he can go 11-11 no sweat, why didn't he save some of that for the Finals :lol
Like my good friend OKC said, expect more flukes partner.

[Latarian Milton]

ibaka ain't that good imho, dude's nothing more than a rich man's dejuan blair. if blair got similar level of D awareness and vertical jump ibaka has he would've been just as great with even better strength imho.

[ElNono]

*yawn* Are Spur fans still whining about how much of a fluke Ibaka's shooting is? Hold on a second... Ibaka tiene un buen tiro de salto. No es suerte. Tú todos consiguió martillado el año pasado y se consigue martillado otra vez. Deseando rasgando un culo nuevo.


Maybe because we weren't playing a shitty old Spurs team? Maybe because he had to go against an athletic Bosh instead of Tim?

According to OKC, he can shoot 11-11 whenever he wants. No flukes there.

Maybe he was just too busy getting raped by Battier to actually make a shot, tbh.

[Monster1776]

ibaka ain't that good imho, dude's nothing more than a rich man's dejuan blair. if blair got similar level of D awareness and vertical jump ibaka has he would've been just as great with even better strength imho.

But he doesn't a big with that type of awareness and agility is rare in most big men. It's an instinct that can't be taught, plus Blair wouldn't even dream of attempting to shoot 3's.

Battier is a dirty mother fucker but I love him as a player. But really why even have this discussion when Serge is only 23 and in his 3rd year and showing consistent improvement. Reminds me of this list: http://www.sportspickle.com/opinion/16064/what-your-favorite-nba-playoff-team-says-about-you-2013

[ElNono]

ibaka ain't that good imho, dude's nothing more than a rich man's dejuan blair. if blair got similar level of D awareness and vertical jump ibaka has he would've been just as great with even better strength imho.

It's not fair, Latarian... you can speak your mind about Ibaka because you're a Heat fan, but nobody else can?

I'm with you. He's already overpaid at 23, and his ceiling is probably Boris Diaw without the belly... but I can't say it without coming across as some sort of dig, tbh

[Monster1776]

It's not fair, Latarian... you can speak your mind about Ibaka because you're a Heat fan, but nobody else can?

I'm with you. He's already overpaid at 23, and his ceiling is probably Boris Diaw without the belly... but I can't say it without coming across as some sort of dig, tbh

Name one current player in the NBA that would be a better replacement than Ibaka excluding the fact we need to change Perkins out with someone that can actually muscle the inside without being a lard ass.

[ElNono]

Name one current player in the NBA that would be a better replacement than Ibaka excluding the fact we need to change Perkins out with someone that can actually muscle the inside without being a lard ass.

Anybody that gives you 10/7 and can actually play individual defense against bigs. Plenty to select from that won't cost you $50m. ie: Asik, which makes half of that.

[Monster1776]

Anybody that gives you 10/7 and can actually play individual defense against bigs. Plenty to select from that won't cost you $50m. ie: Asik, which makes half of that.

Asik can't do half the shit that Ibaka can; you're forgetting the most critical part Ibaka plays on the team is his help side D. He covers our guard's horrible on ball defense, without him we would be blasted.

[thunderup]

Asik can't do half the shit that Ibaka can; you're forgetting the most critical part Ibaka plays on the team is his help side D. He covers our guard's horrible on ball defense, without him we would be blasted.
Don't hurt him with your truth bombs partner.

[ElNono]

Asik can't do half the shit that Ibaka can; you're forgetting the most critical part Ibaka plays on the team is his help side D. He covers our guard's horrible on ball defense, without him we would be blasted.

That's about the only thing Ibaka does well. He's a terrible individual defender. He's also a one trick pony on offense. You can probably replace Perkins AND Ibaka with Asik. You won't get as many blocks, but you get the same amount of production on both ends.

He's way overpaid too. You can replace average talent like Ibaka, you can't replace a guy like Harden.

[thunderup]

:lmao

[ElNono]

Don't hurt him with your truth bombs partner.

you just gonna be a cheerleader, or actually have a take? :lol

[ElNono]

:lol this reminds me of Spursfan when they thought Roger Mason JR was anything special when he was hitting 50% from downtown... It's the star players that make the scrubs look good, not the other way around.

[Monster1776]

That's about the only thing Ibaka does well. He's a terrible individual defender. He's also a one trick pony on offense. You can probably replace Perkins AND Ibaka with Asik. You won't get as many blocks, but you get the same amount of production on both ends.

He's way overpaid too. You can replace average talent like Ibaka, you can't replace a guy like Harden.

We did, we replaced him with Martin and Martin has done just fine as that offensive spark off the bench. Do I wish we still had Harden? Holy shit yes. But having a dynamic big defender took more precedent over keeping a third offensive minded player whose only scoring ability comes from penetration. Our offense would get stagnant because we would have KD, Westbrook, AND Harden driving the paint, all the other team would need is a sturdy interior to counter this. You still haven't given me a single player that can out do what Ibaka does for the Thunder. Only reason I disagree about Asik being even a serviceable big is because we wouldn't blow out the Rockets like we did of he was truly a defensive presence coupled with the offensive force that is Harden.

[thunderup]

you just gonna be a cheerleader, or actually have a take? :lol
I don't take you seriously. You're seriously undermining Serge's impact on the game by using a superficially driven argument based on stats.

Face it partner. Serge is a better all around player than Asik. He repeatedly shits on your team not just by scoring but by doing other things. I can't wait for another matchup between our teams. I'll be here laughing at you day and night for your shit takes.

For shits and giggles:
CKkGw5ePx7Y

[Monster1776]

Just putting this out there, I would give my left but if we could get Zack Randolph in a trade for Perk.

[thunderup]

:lol this reminds me of Spursfan when they thought Roger Mason JR was anything special when he was hitting 50% from downtown... It's the star players that make the scrubs look good, not the other way around.
:lol this reminds me of Spur fan crying all over the internet when Serge repeatedly shit on your team

:lol still butthurt

[thunderup]

That's about the only thing Ibaka does well. He's a terrible individual defender. He's also a one trick pony on offense. You can probably replace Perkins AND Ibaka with Asik. You won't get as many blocks, but you get the same amount of production on both ends.

He's way overpaid too. You can replace average talent like Ibaka, you can't replace a guy like Harden.
I'll bookmark this for the perfect bump in a couple of weeks from now.

[ElNono]

We did, we replaced him with Martin and Martin has done just fine as that offensive spark off the bench. Do I wish we still had Harden? Holy shit yes. But having a dynamic big defender took more precedent over keeping a third offensive minded player whose only scoring ability comes from penetration. Our offense would get stagnant because we would have KD, Westbrook, AND Harden driving the paint, all the other team would need is a sturdy interior to counter this. You still haven't given me a single player that can out do what Ibaka does for the Thunder. Only reason I disagree about Asik being even a serviceable big is because we wouldn't blow out the Rockets like we did of he was truly a defensive presence coupled with the offensive force that is Harden.

That's a terrible argument. You always take the special talent, and that player is Harden by a long, long mile. I already stated players that would do what Ibaka does on offense just as well or better (Jamison, Bonner). They're the premier stretch-4, but they're average players. On defense, sure, Ibaka is probably the league's best help defender, but he's also a weakness when you he has to defend bigger guys, and that's exactly why Perkins is there. Fact is your team would miss Ibaka very little, because KD is a solid defender and he has enough height to swat shots too.

[ElNono]

I don't take you seriously. You're seriously undermining Serge's impact on the game by using a superficially driven argument based on stats.

What's superficial about it?


Face it partner. Serge is a better all around player than Asik. He repeatedly shits on your team not just by scoring but by doing other things. I can't wait for another matchup between our teams. I'll be here laughing at you day and night for your shit takes.

I don't know you're getting past the Rockets or Clippers, tbh... also, we'll see if the Spurs get that far.

[Monster1776]

That's a terrible argument. You always take the special talent, and that player is Harden by a long, long mile. I already stated players that would do what Ibaka does on offense just as well or better (Jamison, Bonner). They're the premier stretch-4, but they're average players. On defense, sure, Ibaka is probably the league's best help defender, but he's also a weakness when you he has to defend bigger guys, and that's exactly why Perkins is there. Fact is your team would miss Ibaka very little, because KD is a solid defender and he has enough height to swat shots too.

Not a terrible argument, just a terrible situation; we shouldn't of had to be in that situation to begin with. And as much as KD is an athletic defender, he would get absolutely bullied by any true 4/5 guy in the post. I think we made the best decision in a horrible situation for the future of our franchise and I think we'll do marginally better than last year. I don't think clear evidence of wether we screwed up or not on our decision to choose Ibaka over Harden will be evident until after a couple of years. The only way we could improve on this team is finding a true pg like Chris Paul and finding a mobile big to replace Perk (which isn't that big of a priority)

[thunderup]

What's superficial about it?
Stats and stats alone drive you to make conclusions, such as the ones you did here. I find it hard you actually believe the bullshit you're posting about Serge after he had a major impact in last year's WCF.

:lol at saying a player like Serge is replaceable



I don't know you're getting past the Rockets or Clippers, tbh... also, we'll see if the Spurs get that far.
Any series between now and the WCF will go at most 5 games, maybe 6 if the Clippers play out of their minds.

The Spurs will get past the Lakers and Nuggets.

[ElNono]

Not a terrible argument, just a terrible situation; we shouldn't of had to be in that situation to begin with. And as much as KD is an athletic defender, he would get absolutely bullied by any true 4/5 guy in the post.

But that happens with Ibaka already. What Ibaka does great for your team is: A) hit his shot to space the floor for drivers like KD or Westbrook, like any good stretch 4 should and B) block from the weak side.

You can replace A. B is harder. But you just mentioned ZBo. If you get ZBo, you'll have a post presence, and you won't be playing the exactly the same as right now. He'll open up the offense to a back to the basket game too, and free up shooters like Martin or even KD. What makes everything work is KD. He's the young guy, and the star. He can play a bunch of different ways.


I think we made the best decision in a horrible situation for the future of our franchise and I think we'll do marginally better than last year. I don't think clear evidence of wether we screwed up or not on our decision to choose Ibaka over Harden will be evident until after a couple of years. The only way we could improve on this team is finding a true pg like Chris Paul and finding a mobile big to replace Perk (which isn't that big of a priority)

I think Presti screwed up, tbh. Time will tell.

[ElNono]

Stats and stats alone drive you to make conclusions, such as the ones you did here. I find it hard you actually believe the bullshit you're posting about Serge after he had a major impact in last year's WCF.

:lol at saying a player like Serge is replaceable

At the end of the day, production is what matters. You guys hate Perk strictly because his numbers suck. But he's an important cog in the machine, simply because none of your other guys can defend bigs in the post.

Serge is the product of a successful team. But he's a very average player. I mean, so many average players made a living off Duncan's best years (Malik Rose, Rasho Nesterovic, Nazr Mohamed). It's the same with Durant.


Any series between now and the WCF will go at most 5 games, maybe 6 if the Clippers play out of their minds.

I want to see the Clippers on the road. Then I'll tell you.


The Spurs will get past the Lakers and Nuggets.

You would think they should, but we're banged up and the league just doesn't like us. I think we have a great shot, but we'll see.

[Monster1776]

I think Presti screwed up, tbh. Time will tell.

A lot people share your sentiment which is why I'm nervous and also not terribly enthusiastic about this year. Only reason I'm optimistic is because of KD and the slight chance Westbrook will mature in these playoffs.

Sam Presti has done an amazing job thus far, I'm hoping the luck continues.

[TIMMYtoZO]

A lot people share your sentiment which is why I'm nervous and also not terribly enthusiastic about this year. Only reason I'm optimistic is because of KD and the slight chance Westbrook will mature in these playoffs.

Sam Presti has done an amazing job thus far, I'm hoping the luck continues.

Give me Udonis Haslem over Ibaka. Haslem can actually play man defense, rebound, and doesn't need to jump around like a stupid monkey to block a shot. When a smart team like Miami plays OKC, Ibaka gets exposed for the piece of shit he is.

[OKC]

According to OKC, he can shoot 11-11 whenever he wants.

Yeah, that's exactly what I said. Come on.

[OKC]

Give me Udonis Haslem over Ibaka. Haslem can actually play man defense, rebound, and doesn't need to jump around like a stupid monkey to block a shot. When a smart team like Miami plays OKC, Ibaka gets exposed for the piece of shit he is.

Yeah, Haslem blocks shots without jumping at the rate of 0.2 a game. Maybe he should try jumping?
Ibaka can't rebound? His offensive rebounding rate per 48 minutes is 30% higher than Haslem's.
Horrible take.

[OKC]

But that happens with Ibaka already. What Ibaka does great for your team is: A) hit his shot to space the floor for drivers like KD or Westbrook, like any good stretch 4 should and B) block from the weak side.



Yeah,that's what he does. You act as if a 4 hitting the perimeter shot at the rate Ibaka does is just kind of an ordinary thing. It's not. Does it make him some all world offensive player? Of course not, but let's not underestimate the uniqueness of a PF hitting the outside shot consistently at anywhere from 47 to near 60%. He does need to develop a back to the basket game though, I agree. Right now they're starting to feed him the ball in the post more. He's catching the ball and then pivoting to face the basket in a triple threat position and either taking the jumper or driving. Would like to see him develop the little low post hook shot. That would really add some versatility.

[Monster1776]

Yeah, Haslem blocks shots without jumping at the rate of 0.2 a game. Maybe he should try jumping?
Ibaka can't rebound? His offensive rebounding rate per 48 minutes is 30% higher than Haslem's.
Horrible take.

I thought we all agreed that we wouldn't take Heat fans seriously?

And it would be nice for Ibaka to have a hook shot in his repertoire but it's not necessary; some bigs excell at a face up game because their body is tuned to it; it's exactly how I used to play.

[OKC]

I don't know. El Nono makes some sense, but I'll strongly disagree with his assessment that Ibaka is merely an average player. I think his statement that Ibaka is a "horrible" man defender is also a pretty big exaggeration. I think a lot of people underestimate the impact of Ibaka's help defense. He's probably the only player in the NBA that can significantly change a game with his blocking ability. If there's such thing is a blocked shot "zone", Ibaka is the guy Ive seen get in one. There's games where he almost completely shuts down the opposition from even wanting to attempt a shot in the lane. The deterrence factor, at times, is huge. The way in which he alters shots, even if not actually blocking the shot, is also underestimated or misunderstood by some.

[TIMMYtoZO]

Yeah, Haslem blocks shots without jumping at the rate of 0.2 a game. Maybe he should try jumping? Ibaka can't rebound? His offensive rebounding rate per 48 minutes is 30% higher than Haslem's.Horrible take.:lol Of course it's higher, Ibaka plays more minutes. Haslem may not have the African jungle jumping ability Ibaka has, but he is a stronger and tougher defensive player. Haslem also doesn't go MIA like Ibaka does when players are shitting on him (Dirk, Bosh, Battier to name a few). All Ibaka brings is a skillset that has been contained by the last 2 teams who eliminated OKC. Haslem is a mentally tough player while Ibaka is a mentally weak one. When things aren't going OKC's way, Ibaka doesn't do shit. His jumpers don't fall, and/or he is too afraid to take them. Nick Collison is more reliable because of this. :lol

[ElNono]

Yeah,that's what he does. You act as if a 4 hitting the perimeter shot at the rate Ibaka does is just kind of an ordinary thing. It's not. Does it make him some all world offensive player? Of course not, but let's not underestimate the uniqueness of a PF hitting the outside shot consistently at anywhere from 47 to near 60%. He does need to develop a back to the basket game though, I agree. Right now they're starting to feed him the ball in the post more. He's catching the ball and then pivoting to face the basket in a triple threat position and either taking the jumper or driving. Would like to see him develop the little low post hook shot. That would really add some versatility.

I think the disconnect here is that he doesn't really play as a PF. On offense, he's strictly a perimeter guy. He plays basically as a tall guard. Among perimeter players, shooting 47%/35% is pedestrian at best. There's nothing 'special' about a PF that plays like a guard and makes average percentages compared to any other guard. Defensively, he's the weakest of your 'bigs', period. He can't guard any physical big and his shot blocking is strictly limited to weak-side help.


I don't know. El Nono makes some sense, but I'll strongly disagree with his assessment that Ibaka is merely an average player. I think his statement that Ibaka is a "horrible" man defender is also a pretty big exaggeration. I think a lot of people underestimate the impact of Ibaka's help defense. He's probably the only player in the NBA that can significantly change a game with his blocking ability. If there's such thing is a blocked shot "zone", Ibaka is the guy Ive seen get in one. There's games where he almost completely shuts down the opposition from even wanting to attempt a shot in the lane. The deterrence factor, at times, is huge. The way in which he alters shots, even if not actually blocking the shot, is also underestimated or misunderstood by some.

You're conflating two completely different things here: man defense is the ability to defend your own guy. Help defense is the ability to go help when one of your teammates defense brakes down. His man defense is poor by any standards. He doesn't have the build to play the physical bigs in the league. His shot-blocking in face up situations is also mediocre. Excellent defenders like Chandler, Duncan, fat Gasol, they all can face up and block shots, anchor the defense, and tackle the physical bigs. His help defense and weak side shot blocking is great, but its obviously reliant on guys like Perkins and Sefolosha softening the attacking player. He certainly has great timing and athleticism, and he takes pride on doing that kind of work, so he should be commended for that.

[Indazone]

Rocketsfans just need to be happy we even made the playoffs. We are up against the number one seed. We are going to get our asses handed to us. Preseason we were picked to finish last with the worst record in the NBA. Breathe and know there is enough cap room to sign another star. It's a free agency smorgasbord. Chris Bosh will probably not stay in Miami.

[OKC]

:lol Of course it's higher, Ibaka plays more minutes. Haslem may not have the African jungle jumping ability Ibaka has, but he is a stronger and tougher defensive player. Haslem also doesn't go MIA like Ibaka does when players are shitting on him (Dirk, Bosh, Battier to name a few). All Ibaka brings is a skillset that has been contained by the last 2 teams who eliminated OKC. Haslem is a mentally tough player while Ibaka is a mentally weak one. When things aren't going OKC's way, Ibaka doesn't do shit. His jumpers don't fall, and/or he is too afraid to take them. Nick Collison is more reliable because of this. :lol

These statements are based off of last years NBA Finals - and based on that, yes you are correct. Ibaka, as well as Harden, basically disappeared. All that aside, I don't know many intelligent basketball fans that would choose to have Udonis Haslem on their roster over Serge Ibaka.

And ok, if you want to equate Haslem's shot blocking stats to Ibaka's on a per 48 minute basis - as I did with offensive rebounding (reminder - Ibaka rebounds at a 30% higher clip PER 48 minutes than Haslem does), here you go:
Haslem - 0.5 blocks per 48 minutes
Ibaka - 4.64 blocks per 48 minutes - in other words, over 9 TIMES the shot blocking rate of Haslem.

Please quit comparing Haslem's shot blocking to Ibaka's.

[OKC]

I think the disconnect here is that he doesn't really play as a PF. On offense, he's strictly a perimeter guy. He plays basically as a tall guard. Among perimeter players, shooting 47%/35% is pedestrian at best. There's nothing 'special' about a PF that plays like a guard and makes average percentages compared to any other guard. Defensively, he's the weakest of your 'bigs', period. He can't guard any physical big and his shot blocking is strictly limited to weak-side help.



You're conflating two completely different things here: man defense is the ability to defend your own guy. Help defense is the ability to go help when one of your teammates defense brakes down. His man defense is poor by any standards. He doesn't have the build to play the physical bigs in the league. His shot-blocking in face up situations is also mediocre. Excellent defenders like Chandler, Duncan, fat Gasol, they all can face up and block shots, anchor the defense, and tackle the physical bigs. His help defense and weak side shot blocking is great, but its obviously reliant on guys like Perkins and Sefolosha softening the attacking player. He certainly has great timing and athleticism, and he takes pride on doing that kind of work, so he should be commended for that.

Yeah, he excels at help defense, weak side, etc, that's for certain. That's his defensive strength, obviously. I just don't think he's a BAD man defender. If it's a Duncan..yeah he can be kinda bad, but that's Perkins' assignment really. Ibaka is at least a mediocre defender against guys who aren't notably bigger than him. I think a lot of what you see with Ibaka is against the Spurs. Maybe you watch every single one of OKC's games, I don't know? I do. I can see where against SA you would see him get schooled by Duncan and think he's a bad man defender, but against more reasonable matchups - Ibaka is a decent man defender. I agree that his offensive game is primarily perimeter, outside of putbacks on the offensive glass, which he is also very good at. But you state that shooting 47% from the 16-23 foot range in question is "pedestrian", by guards' standards. It's really not. I'm going down the list looking at guard type players who at least have a reasonable amount of attempts per game 2.5-3.0 or so- Chris Paul shoots 51%. Steve Nash 50%. Dirk at 49%. Rondo 48%. Jack 48%. Those are the only guards in the entire league that shoot at a higher % than Ibaka. How in the world do you call Ibaka's shooting "pedestrian"?

[ElNono]

Yeah, he excels at help defense, weak side, etc, that's for certain. That's his defensive strength, obviously. I just don't think he's a BAD man defender. If it's a Duncan..yeah he can be kinda bad, but that's Perkins' assignment really. Ibaka is at least a mediocre defender against guys who aren't notably bigger than him. I think a lot of what you see with Ibaka is against the Spurs. Maybe you watch every single one of OKC's games, I don't know? I do. I can see where against SA you would see him get schooled by Duncan and think he's a bad man defender, but against more reasonable matchups - Ibaka is a decent man defender. I agree that his offensive game is primarily perimeter, outside of putbacks on the offensive glass, which he is also very good at. But you state that shooting 47% from the 16-23 foot range in question is "pedestrian", by guards' standards. It's really not. I'm going down the list looking at guard type players who at least have a reasonable amount of attempts per game 2.5-3.0 or so- Chris Paul shoots 51%. Steve Nash 50%. Dirk at 49%. Rondo 48%. Jack 48%. Those are the only guards in the entire league that shoot at a higher % than Ibaka. How in the world do you call Ibaka's shooting "pedestrian"?

He's a 37.9% shooter from 20-24... He's also 35% from downtown. Basically, outside of 20ft his percentages drop dramatically, which for a guard it's simply too limited range.

[djohn2oo8]

Rocketsfans just need to be happy we even made the playoffs. We are up against the number one seed. We are going to get our asses handed to us. Preseason we were picked to finish last with the worst record in the NBA. Breathe and know there is enough cap room to sign another star. It's a free agency smorgasbord. Chris Bosh will probably not stay in Miami.

What's even more puzzling is how did they make it with McFail as the head coach? I actually think the team played better under Sampson.

[djohn2oo8]

While he does have a point, I do think it's quite hypocritical of Ibaka to call the Rockets a selfish team with that fuckhead Westbrook and Kevin "Don't count that as a shot attempt" Durant.

[Monster1776]

To be fair who can really even guard Duncan.

[OKC]

While he does have a point, I do think it's quite hypocritical of Ibaka to call the Rockets a selfish team with that fuckhead Westbrook and Kevin "Don't count that as a shot attempt" Durant.
“Make them be kind of selfish,” Serge Ibaka said of OKC’s defensive tactic. “When we switch against a team like them it makes them go one-on-one. That’s good for us. So for them they can take some tough shots, some contested shots. That’s what we want. That’s what we’re looking for.”

Not really a hypocritical statement. He's not suggesting Houston is selfish by nature. He's just talking X's and O's.

[OKC]

He's a 37.9% shooter from 20-24... He's also 35% from downtown. Basically, outside of 20ft his percentages drop dramatically, which for a guard it's simply too limited range.
20-24 is not his game. Those attempts account for a very small % of his game. He's shot like...50 3 pointers all season? The bulk is inside 20 feet