Concerns about Lakeref?

[Fabbs]

Particularly the b.s. calls on Timmy and Splitter vs Gasol and DCoward. Also a few of the non calls where Tim and other got obviously hacked.
This is a 25 point blowout from what i saw.

Very happy with the win.
Concerns going forward that right on cue Lakeref shows up again to turn the series?

[capek]

The Lakers are so bad that it doesn't worry me too much. I'll admit it worried me some before game 1, I was thinking that sans Kobe maybe the Lakers could scrap together a team based system that might actually take advantage of some of the talents they do have. Then I watched game 1, remembered Pringles was there coach, and that they'd been playing all season with senior rapist keeping them from getting any experience playing as a team, and my worries lifted. The Lakers aren't going to be able to figure it out during a playoff series, and without a player who can just get buckets at will, they'll struggle to put up 90 points on these Spurs. If Manu keeps this up, Gary doesn't go 0'fer on 3's, and Tony stops missing shots he always makes (all pretty likely), we'll have no problem blowing out the Lakers. But even without that we beat them by 12. So imo there's just too much discrepancy in level of talent between these two teams for Lakeref to make an impact. We'll see, but I'm not too worried.

[Brunodf]

Also the refs tried to make a run early in the 4th... Lakers got 6 straight FTs from tic tac fouls

[benstanfield]

The way I see it, we can consider ourselves lucky and on the favorable end of the officiating if Tim and Tiago are not in quick foul trouble.

Beyond that, putting the Lakers in the bonus works to our advantage as long as Howard shoots around 50% from FT.

[capek]

Also the refs tried to make a run early in the 4th... Lakers got 6 straight FTs from tic tac fouls

Ya, those were some pretty ridiculous calls. I just think it would take a Lakers vs Goldenstate-level hosing by the refs to really give the Lakers a chance to win, and I can't imagine the league doing that on the stage of the playoffs. Seems like there'd be too much scrutiny; I gotta imagine it's very important for Stern to keep up the guise of plausible deniability as to the WWE level the game has sunk to.

[HI-FI]

Ya, those were some pretty ridiculous calls. I just think it would take a Lakers vs Goldenstate-level hosing by the refs to really give the Lakers a chance to win, and I can't imagine the league doing that on the stage of the playoffs. Seems like there'd be too much scrutiny; I gotta imagine it's very important for Stern to keep up the guise of plausible deniability as to the WWE level the game has sunk to.
true, but the 2002 WCF was one of the worst things I've seen, so Stern is definitely capable of it. However, that was before social media/youtube etc...had really taken off, so I think they might be far more hesitant to do it now. Sad that it's taken technology to prevent them from being total scumbags about it.

as for concerns about Lakerefs, I'm always concerned about it, the same reason I hate dealing with Thunderefs. They are the two worst at it. For all the shit Miami gets, I don't think Lebron gets quite as much help as prime Kobe or Durant.

But what is it we can do? email the league office, call them. i guess that's about it. I don't think they are as brazen as before, but this past month showed how biased they are to Lakers over the Jazz.

here's an article worth reading before I forget to post it.
http://www.blazersedge.com/2013/4/13/4219640/Los-Angeles-Lakers-playoffs-refs-referee-free-throws-officiating-conspiracy-nba

and a video breakdown about Lakers vs Golden State

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=gG--YA80FsE

[spurraider21]

Officiating was a non-factor this game. Sure, they blew that one call on Timmy, but the ref slap him with the very obvious T after that play. Plus on Duncan's next trip down, they called a touch foul when he was in the post. They had at least one offensive foul on Dwight, and the one on Meeks where he got hurt was close call, too. Didn't feel like the refs were on their side or our side. Then again, it wasn't Joey Crawford

[Austin_Toros]

Here is a good video compilation of some very questionable (arguably outright wrong) calls favouring the Lakers. The two guys talking at the start of the video make some great points, I think.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5MhmGyZ7KF0

[Maddog]

The hack on Tim two goaltending calls on Dwight
Hard to know
I far from an unbiased observer

[foodie2]

I was reading the Lakers board game thread and they were bitching about the officiating being biased in favor of the Spurs.

[silverblk mystix]

Particularly the b.s. calls on Timmy and Splitter vs Gasol and DCoward. Also a few of the non calls where Tim and other got obviously hacked.
This is a 25 point blowout from what i saw.

Very happy with the win.
Concerns going forward that right on cue Lakeref shows up again to turn the series?

The games in l.a. will be where the calls will give the lakers a win or even two wins....there is no way the league wants the lakers swept again.

[CubanMustGo]

I was reading the Lakers board game thread and they were bitching about the officiating being biased in favor of the Spurs.

Anything other than abjectly bad reffing where the Lakers are getting 20 more FTs than their opponent is considered biased by that fan base.

[Budkin]

Its gonna be bad in LA but they just aren't good.

[ambchang]

The LA fans complained about the reffing in the GS game, so take it with a grain of salt.

[spurs_fan_in_exile]

I fully expect the Spurs will lose 3 or 4 with some major league home cooking in LA but after watching the NBA long enough I feel like at least one of those sorts of games happens for every team in a playoff series. It's frustrating to see close games steered by shitty reffing, which is why the Spurs should play like they are capable of playing and not have any close games with these clowns.

[100%duncan]

Its gonna be bad in LA but they just aren't good.

This is exactly how I feel.

[romsho]

There will probably be one Joey Crawford and one Bennett Salvatore game. Those will be the main obstacles to a short series.

[mercos]

Getting game 1 was important. I think the team is going to start building momentum from this point forward. Game 2 should be an easy win, but game 3 will be a tough one. The Lakers are going to come out hard and try to defend home court, and I fully expect our bigs to get into foul trouble, especially Tiago. If Manu or Tony steps up, it won't matter. If Bonner keeps playing like he did in game 1, it will be a sweep. LA got great games out of Gasol and Howard in game 1 and lost by double digits. They just don't have the firepower to contend with the Spurs at this point.

[Phenomanul]

Pop should sit Duncan, Parker and Ginobili for the first game we get stuck with Joey Crawford. His response should be "What's the point of playing them if it will go down as a loss regardless of who takes the floor? - They may as well rest..."

Anybody got the stats on how many losses Joey has given the Spurs ever since the Joey vs. Timmy incident?

[Brunodf]

Pop should sit Duncan, Parker and Ginobili for the first game we get stuck with Joey Crawford. His response should be "What's the point of playing them if it will go down as a loss regardless of who takes the floor? - They may as well rest..."

Anybody got the stats on how many losses Joey has given the Spurs ever since the Joey vs. Timmy incident?
I know that we lost the last 2(Miami and OKC)

[Phenomanul]

I know that we lost the last 2(Miami and OKC)

And Game 5 vs. the Lakers in 2008...

[FromWayDowntown]

Since 2008, the Spurs are 3-5 in playoff games officiated by Joey Crawford:


2008 WCFR, Game 5 v. Phoenix -- WIN
2008 WCSF, Game 5 at New Orleans -- LOSS
2008 WCF, Game 4 v. LAL -- LOSS
2009 WCFR, Game 3 at Dallas -- LOSS
2010 WCSF, Game 2 at Phoenix -- LOSS
2012 WCSF, Game 4 at LAC -- WIN
2012 WCF, Game 1 v. OKC -- WIN
2012 WCF, Game 6 at OKC -- LOSS

Of course, the Spurs are 27-26 (and only 24-21 in games that Joey didn't call) in all playoff games since the start of the 2008 playoffs, so the outcomes in Joey's games are pretty close to the average, actually -- and all of that is helped by the spike of last year's playoffs.

For whatever it's worth, the Spurs are also 15-10 in regular season games with Joey since the start of the 2007-08 regular season (and 2-2 this year -- won in Charlotte, won in Minnesota, lost at home to Miami, lost at Lakers)

One other thing: curiously, through the first 3 game days of the 2013 playoffs, Joey hasn't worked yet. My suspicion is that since he's very likely going to work late into the playoffs again (as usual) the league gave him a few extra days off early in Round 1. But it's pretty much unprecedented for an official of his stature to miss the first weekend of playoff games without being injured or suspended.

[Mugen]

Quarters 1-3 were called fairly. The way the refs have been helping the Lakers recently is to get them into the penalty very early in the 4th and then giving them touch calls in close games down the stretch.

Saw some of that early in Game 1 but the Spurs were able to overcome. Won't be too bad at the AT&T Center but Spurs better be carrying a 10+ point lead down the stretch in the games @ Staples tbh.

[Mel_13]

Since 2008, the Spurs are 3-5 in playoff games officiated by Joey Crawford:


2008 WCFR, Game 5 v. Phoenix -- WIN
2008 WCSF, Game 5 at New Orleans -- LOSS
2008 WCF, Game 4 v. LAL -- LOSS
2009 WCFR, Game 3 at Dallas -- LOSS
2010 WCSF, Game 2 at Phoenix -- LOSS
2012 WCSF, Game 4 at LAC -- WIN
2012 WCF, Game 1 v. OKC -- WIN
2012 WCF, Game 6 at OKC -- LOSS

Of course, the Spurs are 27-26 (and only 24-21 in games that Joey didn't call) in all playoff games since the start of the 2008 playoffs, so the outcomes in Joey's games are pretty close to the average, actually -- and all of that is helped by the spike of last year's playoffs.

FWD,

What do you make of the fact that Joey didn't work any of the 8 games over the weekend and isn't working either of the two games tonight while McCutchen and Callahan are both working their second games? Are you aware of any similar situation where one of the league's top officials didn't work in any of the first ten playoff games?

A conspiracy theorist might think that they're saving him for Game 3 to prolong the series.

[FromWayDowntown]

As I watched Game 1, I wondered if maybe the officials decided to take the untelegenic Hack-a-Howard strategy out of the equation for a Sunday afternoon ABC game by letting a lot of stuff go in the early stages of quarters and keeping the teams away from the penalty. At least, I think that was true in the first half -- in Q1, the teams were called for a total of 5 fouls (and shot 7 free throws); in Q2, the number of fouls went up (12 total (7 for LA, 5 for SA), but the FTA stayed quite low (again, a total of 7 attempts between the teams).

And for whatever the complaint might have been about the 4th quarter (the Lakers outshot the Spurs 12-5 from the stripe), it was basically the opposite of the 3rd quarter:


3rd Quarter
FOULS -- SA 5, LA 7
FTA -- SA 12, LA 6

4th Quarter
FOULS -- SA 8, LA 4
FTA -- SA 5, LA 12


It's a simplistic analysis -- I get that. I also realize the Spurs FTA in the 4th were mostly the result of intentional fouls late. Regardless, the numbers were pretty much identical. And I do believe that some part of the 4th quarter officiating was the product of the game being on ABC with a significant score disparity and the desire to try to make the game a bit closer to keep an audience.

[FromWayDowntown]

FWD,

What do you make of the fact that Joey didn't work any of the 8 games over the weekend and isn't working either of the two games tonight while McCutchen and Callahan are both working their second games? Are you aware of any similar situation where one of the league's top officials didn't work in any of the first ten playoff games?

A conspiracy theorist might think that they're saving him for Game 3 to prolong the series.

I added a note to my earlier post about that, but I think it's probably just an acknowledgment of Joey's age and the fact that he's likely to be working through the end of the Finals. The league already makes concessions to officials like Joey; during the regular season, Joey worked 62 games (of the 67 officials who worked games this season, that figure was pretty much the median), but was one of only 12 full-time officials who never worked back-to-back nights. I'm not really sure how the league decides who gets to avoid back-to-backs and who must work them; Joey, Salvatore (63 games), Callahan (61 games), and James Capers (62 games) all made it through the season without any back-to-backs while Danny Crawford (who is only 2 years younger than Joey and 5 years older than Callahan) worked 70 games and had 14 back-to-backs. Still, there does seem to be some acknowledgment of age in the number of games that most officials work and that may be part of what's kept Joey out of the first weekend.

I wouldn't read too much (yet, anyway) into the fact that McCutchen and Callahan are calling their second games already. McCutchen worked Game 1 of Knicks/Celtics on Saturday and is now doing Game 2 of Brooklyn/Chicago across the river -- that makes a lot of sense and is fairly common when games are in close geographical proximity. In fact, the same entire crew (down to the alternate) has been assigned to those games. The same is true, I think of Callahan (who is working Game 2 of LAC/MEM at Staples with the same crew that worked Game 1 of DEN/GST on Saturday); he's in the closest proximity to LA of the crew chiefs who worked on Saturday.

I am curious to see if the assignments continue to keep crews together to some extent for the rest of this week.

[Mel_13]

Thanks FWD.

[spurraider21]

Here is a good video compilation of some very questionable (arguably outright wrong) calls favouring the Lakers. The two guys talking at the start of the video make some great points, I think.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5MhmGyZ7KF0
rofl the first guy talking is Bill Simmons, a self admitted Celtics fan. never pretended to like Kobe/Lakers. but i didn't see any shaky officiating in our last reg season matchup with them, their last game against Houston, or game 1 yesterday

[Phenomanul]

Since 2008, the Spurs are 3-5 in playoff games officiated by Joey Crawford:


2008 WCFR, Game 5 v. Phoenix -- WIN
2008 WCSF, Game 5 at New Orleans -- LOSS
2008 WCF, Game 4 v. LAL -- LOSS
2009 WCFR, Game 3 at Dallas -- LOSS
2010 WCSF, Game 2 at Phoenix -- LOSS
2012 WCSF, Game 4 at LAC -- WIN
2012 WCF, Game 1 v. OKC -- WIN
2012 WCF, Game 6 at OKC -- LOSS

Of course, the Spurs are 27-26 (and only 24-21 in games that Joey didn't call) in all playoff games since the start of the 2008 playoffs, so the outcomes in Joey's games are pretty close to the average, actually -- and all of that is helped by the spike of last year's playoffs.

For whatever it's worth, the Spurs are also 15-10 in regular season games with Joey since the start of the 2007-08 regular season (and 2-2 this year -- won in Charlotte, won in Minnesota, lost at home to Miami, lost at Lakers)

One other thing: curiously, through the first 3 game days of the 2013 playoffs, Joey hasn't worked yet. My suspicion is that since he's very likely going to work late into the playoffs again (as usual) the league gave him a few extra days off early in Round 1. But it's pretty much unprecedented for an official of his stature to miss the first weekend of playoff games without being injured or suspended.

Thanks FWD for that research... I suppose the thought of Joey Crawford officiating Spurs' Playoff games stings simply because of the grotesque controversy surrounding the highlighted games above.

[FromWayDowntown]

Thanks FWD.

Back to this point again. We're now 4 days and 13 games into the 2013 playoffs and Joey Crawford still hasn't been assigned a game. It's interesting.


I am curious to see if the assignments continue to keep crews together to some extent for the rest of this week.

For whatever it's worth, with the assignments known for 5 of the 8 Game 2's in this round, the league has maintained the integrity of its Game 1 crews, assigning the same officials to work together for consecutive games in every instance:


Crew 1: Monty McCutchen, Bill Spooner, Gary Zielinski (Game 1 NY/BOS; Game 2 BRK/CHI)
Crew 2: Mike Callahan, David Guthrie, Tom Washington (Game 1 DEN/GST; Game 2 LAC/MEM)
Crew 3: Scott Foster, John Goble, Bill Kennedy (Game 1 LAC/MEM; Game 2 DEN/GST)
Crew 4: Derrick Stafford, David Jones, Rodney Mott (Game 1 IND/ATL; Game 2 NY/BOS)
Crew 5: Ron Garretson, Tony Brothers, Zach Zarba (Game 1 OKC/HOU; Game 2 MIA/MIL)

(I made up the crew numbers, for whatever its worth).

13 games in, there have only been two modifications -- (1) Ron Garretson was listed as the crew chief for OKC/HOU, with Brothers as an assistant while Brothers is listed as the crew chief for Game 2 of MIA/MIL, with Garretson as an assistant; (2) the alternate for Stafford's crew in Indy was Pat Fraher and tonight in New York, their alternate is Josh Tiven -- beyond that, the alternates have been the same for each crew in each of the games it has been assigned.

If that form holds, it means there should be three other crews assigned to work tomorrow night's games:


Crew 6: Bennett Salvatore, James Capers, Sean Corbin (Game 1 MIA/MIL)
Crew 7: Danny Crawford, Marc Davis, Jason Phillips (Game 1 SA/LAL)
Crew 8: Ken Mauer, Ed Malloy, Sean Wright (Game 1 BRK/CHI)

Assuming this crew integrity thing continues, a wild guess would put:


Danny Crawford's crew in OKC
Salvatore's crew in San Antonio
Mauer's crew in Indianapolis

I'm curious to see how long this lasts. The league does have a new officiating czar (http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/8340475/nba-selects-mike-bantom-new-vp-referees) and it may be that there's a new belief that playoff games will be called better or more consistently if the officials work together more often. Don't know. I just know that I've been keeping track of this stuff for a number of years now and I've never seen the league assign its officials this way.

[Mel_13]

Back to this point again. We're now 4 days and 13 games into the 2013 playoffs and Joey Crawford still hasn't been assigned a game. It's interesting.

The plot thickens. If the Spurs win tonight and Joey shows up for Game 3 to extend the series, it will lend credence to the conspiracy theorists.

[Fabbs]

Since 2008, the Spurs are 3-5 in playoff games officiated by Joey Crawford:


2008 WCFR, Game 5 v. Phoenix -- WIN
2008 WCSF, Game 5 at New Orleans -- LOSS
2008 WCF, Game 4 v. LAL -- LOSS
2009 WCFR, Game 3 at Dallas -- LOSS
2010 WCSF, Game 2 at Phoenix -- LOSS
2012 WCSF, Game 4 at LAC -- WIN
2012 WCF, Game 1 v. OKC -- WIN
2012 WCF, Game 6 at OKC -- LOSS

Of course, the Spurs are 27-26 (and only 24-21 in games that Joey didn't call) in all playoff games since the start of the 2008 playoffs, so the outcomes in Joey's games are pretty close to the average, actually -- and all of that is helped by the spike of last year's playoffs.
I too thank you for the research FromWayDowntown.
3-5 record i would echo others that the weight of the games he shafted us far outweight the wins.
Example in two of the wins, the 4th game of a 4-0 sweep vs Clipps last year, what good was his rigging/bias going to do? So Crawford shafts us and the series becomes 3-1. The Clips were not going to come back and win 4 straight.
Same with 2005 when we closed the Suns in Game 5.

I'm extremely relieved we did not get shafted last night (Game 2 vs Lakers).
It only takes one or two rigged games to swing a series.
I was pleasantly shocked last night the reffing included little if any favoritism for the WWE Lakers. Some of the calls were away from the ball ones like DHoward cheapshotting guys. They called it several times.

Would seem we are out of the woods but then again.
It's not like the Lakers totally suck. I mean they are capable of winning one game legitimately. Throw in a riggaroo and it's 2-2 and a series again.
Lets hope it stays fair. If so we waste them in 4 or 5.