"Fat" Gasol is the best big man in the game

[LkrFan]

I know hindsight is 20/20, but is wish we never traded his rights to the Grizzlies. This dude has a wet jumper. He bangs. He rebounds. He swats. He's a crafty passer. His hoops IQ is on par with his soft brother.

He just won DPOY and has improved each year he has played. He still hasn't reached his ceiling. He played a major role in 8 and if they beat the Clipps this year (I expect it tbh), he'll be the catalyst.

What's not to like about him? I'd trade Howard for this dude right now and not think twice tbh.

[HI-FI]

if you never traded for skinny Gasol, Rapist would never make it out of the first roundPERIOD

[Brunodf]

2/10

[LkrFan]

if you never traded for skinny Gasol, Rapist would never make it out of the first roundPERIOD
Doubtful. He would have been an almost perfect triangle center. He would have complimented Kobe and LO really well IMO.

[Juggity]

LA loses out on 2 guaranteed titles with Fat Gasol onboard instead of Pau

[LkrFan]

2/10
Lemme guess. TD > Fat Gasol right? Career? No doubt. Right now? Debatable

[HI-FI]

Doubtful. He would have been an almost perfect triangle center. He would have complimented Kobe and LO really well IMO.

this might hurt, because it's truthful, but you might want to blame your idol Kobe. his Snitchass is the reason they had to make an emergency move. props to Stern though for making sure the bread is buttered.:elephant

[HarlemHeat37]

He's probably 4th, behind Duncan, Nowitzki and Howard..

His scoring isn't consistently good, not a great rebounder..Memphis's system suits him well, tbh, as his lack of consistent scoring ability is masked by their grind-out system..

I know Lkrfan is trolling, but Marc Gasol wasn't a notable player until 2010 or 2011, and his offense still isn't anywhere near his brother's..Lakers don't make the Finals in any year of Pau over Marc, tbh..

[LkrFan]

LA loses out on 2 guaranteed titles with Fat Gasol onboard instead of Pau
Nothing's guaranteed son.

[Brunodf]

Lemme guess. TD > Fat Gasol right? Career? No doubt. Right now? Debatable
I am not sure if Fat Gasol is the best big man on his own team tbh.
TD is better than him everywhere, there is no doubt.

[LkrFan]

this might hurt, because it's truthful, but you might want to blame your idol Kobe. his Snitchass is the reason they had to make an emergency move. props to Stern though for making sure the bread is buttered.:elephant
NEWSFLASH: Kobe is not my idol. I support him because he's a Laker. Name on the front >>>>>> name on the back. Believe that.

[Juggity]

Nothing's guaranteed son.

I mean, Pau already won them, so they're guaranteed with Pau. 1 in hand is worth 2 in the bush, etc.

[HI-FI]

great, now Lkrfan is going to try to build a time machine to help Rapist win more rings.

:crybut he never had enough talent around him
:crythe officiating and insane payroll wasn't enough
:cry:elephant

[LkrFan]

He's probably 4th, behind Duncan, Nowitzki and Howard..

His scoring isn't consistently good, not a great rebounder..Memphis's system suits him well, tbh, as his lack of consistent scoring ability is masked by their grind-out system..

I know Lkrfan is trolling, but Marc Gasol wasn't a notable player until 2010 or 2011, and his offense still isn't anywhere near his brother's..Lakers don't make the Finals in any year of Pau over Marc, tbh..
I could buy Duncan (again - debatable) - but not _irk or Howard. His defense >>>> _irk's and his offensive repertoire >>>>> Howard's ever will be.

He's the best big man in the game.

[LkrFan]

I am not sure if Fat Gasol is the best big man on his own team tbh.
TD is better than him everywhere, there is no doubt.
We talking 2013 here. This isn't a lifetime achievement award. TD is NOT better than him everywhere right now. Prove it.

[Trainwreck2100]

We talking 2013 here. This isn't a lifetime achievement award. TD is NOT better than him everywhere right now. Prove it.

http://img707.imageshack.us/img707/850/1367037238388.gif

[Brunodf]

We talking 2013 here. This isn't a lifetime achievement award. TD is NOT better than him everywhere right now. Prove it.
TD is just better on O and D.

Scoring=TD is better
Rebounding= TD is better
Blocks= TD is better
Post moves= TD is better
Jump shoots= TD is better
Leadership= any question?

[HarlemHeat37]

Gasol's offensive repertoire is extremely overrated..he couldn't even break the 50% shooting mark on a low-volume usage, with Z-Bo next to him, on a below average overall offense..

He's also a slightly above average rebounder, nothing impressive..

A healthy Howard is a better defensive player and a much better rebounder..Gasol is a more skilled offensive player, but Howard has always been a more productive scorer, when healthy..

[LkrFan]

http://img707.imageshack.us/img707/850/1367037238388.gif
:lmao

[LkrFan]

TD is just better on O and D.

Scoring=TD is better
Rebounding= TD is better
Blocks= TD is better
Post moves= TD is better
Jump shoots= TD is better
Leadership= any question?
Opinions. Where are your 2013 facts?

[LkrFan]

Gasol's offensive repertoire is extremely overrated..he couldn't even break the 50% shooting mark on a low-volume usage, with Z-Bo next to him, on a below average overall offense..

He's also a slightly above average rebounder, nothing impressive..

A healthy Howard is a better defensive player and a much better rebounder..Gasol is a more skilled offensive player, but Howard has always been a more productive scorer, when healthy..
Gasol shoots jumpers (lower % than dunks) and he bangs. This will lead to 49.4%. Now contrast that to H_warD who shot 57.8%. On the surface, it appears that H_warD is the better offensive player because his 17/12 on 57.8% looks better than Gasol's 14.1/7.8 on 49.4%. Sometimes stats lie.

H_warD should be dominating the Spurs but he's not. Here's his chance to prove to the Lakers that he could carry us after Kobe retires. Stupid fouls. No post game. Getting sonned by a 37 year old. Maybe he's not as good as people think.

[spurraider21]

Marc's jumper is eerily similar to big bro's. Form is different, but they're both pretty deadly from about free throw distance, yet they seem to love to stretch out to the top of they key where they mostly lay bricks. Marc was feelin it tonight from deep, though

[Brunodf]

Opinions. Where are your 2013 facts?
I think u are trolling but i am gonna bite.

Scoring
17,8 ppg(50% FG)[21,3 per 36] vs
14,1 (49% FG)[14,5 per 36]

Rebounding
9,9 rpg(19% TRB) [11,9 per 36]
7,8 rpg(13,1% TRB) [8,0 per 36]

Blocks
2,7 bpg(BLK%= 6,4) [3,2 per 36]
1,7 bpg(BLK%= 4,1) [1,8 per 36]

Duncan DRtg = 95
M.Gasol DRtg = 98 (and he has better defenders on his team than Timmy)

[Clipper Nation]

I'm insanely jealous of the Grizz for having Marc Gasol, he's definitely becoming the best big in the game, tbh...

[HarlemHeat37]

Marc Gasol has never cracked the 20% usage rate..I'm not sure if I've ever seen that for a top big in his prime, tbh..

[LkrFan]

I'm insanely jealous of the Grizz for having Marc Gasol, he's definitely becoming the best big in the game, tbh...
That's all I'm saying. He is better than what many Spurs fans will admit to - even after 8.

[Cry Havoc]

I think u are trolling but i am gonna bite.

Scoring
17,8 ppg(50% FG)[21,3 per 36] vs
14,1 (49% FG)[14,5 per 36]

Rebounding
9,9 rpg(19% TRB) [11,9 per 36]
7,8 rpg(13,1% TRB) [8,0 per 36]

Blocks
2,7 bpg(BLK%= 6,4) [3,2 per 36]
1,7 bpg(BLK%= 4,1) [1,8 per 36]

Duncan DRtg = 95
M.Gasol DRtg = 98 (and he has better defenders on his team than Timmy)







:lmao

Ownage.

Duncan is better in every facet of the game in 2013 than Marc Gasol.

[TheCultOfPersonality]

I don't know about the best big in the game, but I think he's more talented then he's shown.

The guy can be passive at times.

[Clipper Nation]

That's all I'm saying. He is better than what many Spurs fans will admit to - even after 8.

Still though, Duncan has the edge until he retires... then it'll be Marc Gasol, Brow, and maybe Blake if his next coach can get him to stop being passive...

[Cry Havoc]

Still though, Duncan has the edge until he retires... then it'll be Marc Gasol, Brow, and maybe Blake if his next coach can get him to stop being passive...

Edge? There's a chasm between Gasol and Tim. Duncan is averaging more per game than Gasol in every statistical category despite playing 5-6 minutes per game less.

[LarryDavid]

Opinions. Where are your 2013 facts?

Judge these stats as you will...

Advanced - http://stats.nba.com/playerVsPlayer.html?PlayerID=1495&VsPlayerID=201188&MeasureType=Advanced&PerMode=Per48

Regular - http://stats.nba.com/playerVsPlayer.html?PlayerID=1495&VsPlayerID=201188&MeasureType=Base&PerMode=Per48

Per 36 - http://stats.nba.com/playerVsPlayer.html?PlayerID=1495&VsPlayerID=201188&MeasureType=Base&PerMode=Per36

[LkrFan]

I think u are trolling but i am gonna bite.

Scoring
17,8 ppg(50% FG)[21,3 per 36] vs
14,1 (49% FG)[14,5 per 36]

Rebounding
9,9 rpg(19% TRB) [11,9 per 36]
7,8 rpg(13,1% TRB) [8,0 per 36]

Blocks
2,7 bpg(BLK%= 6,4) [3,2 per 36]
1,7 bpg(BLK%= 4,1) [1,8 per 36]

Duncan DRtg = 95
M.Gasol DRtg = 98 (and he has better defenders on his team than Timmy)


Does this account for pace? I highly doubt Duncan puts up those numbers in Memphis. Just like if Marc played in SA his numbers would likely spike due to their style of play. Kind of how MDA's offense made Earl Clark look like a decent player (for a stretch anyway).

[Cry Havoc]

Does this account for pace? I highly doubt Duncan puts up those numbers in Memphis. Just like if Marc played in SA his numbers would likely spike due to their style of play. Kind of how MDA's offense made Earl Clark look like a decent player (for a stretch anyway).

:lmao Backpedaling.

:lmao Duncan not even playing as many minutes as Gasol.

:lmao You're fucking wrong.

http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view5/2166935/wrong-wrong-wrong-wrong-o.gif

[mercos]

The fact that this is even debatable shows how weak NBA front courts are these days. That being said, Gasol is still not the best big man in the game. Hell, I'd argue he's still not the best Gasol in the NBA now that his brother is actually getting touches in LA. And as others have pointed out, Duncan is still superior to Baby Gasol.

[Budkin]

I know hindsight is 20/20, but is wish we never traded his rights to the Grizzlies. This dude has a wet jumper. He bangs. He rebounds. He swats. He's a crafty passer. His hoops IQ is on par with his soft brother.

He just won DPOY and has improved each year he has played. He still hasn't reached his ceiling. He played a major role in 8 and if they beat the Clipps this year (I expect it tbh), he'll be the catalyst.

What's not to like about him? I'd trade Howard for this dude right now and not think twice tbh.

Umm you traded him for 2 Championships. I think that was worth it.

[TrainOfThought5]

http://img707.imageshack.us/img707/850/1367037238388.gif

Spurfan submits exhibit A. Spurfan rests their case.

[mystargtr34]

God damn Marc Gasol has become the most overated player in the NBA.

[TDfan2007]

Does this account for pace? I highly doubt Duncan puts up those numbers in Memphis. Just like if Marc played in SA his numbers would likely spike due to their style of play. Kind of how MDA's offense made Earl Clark look like a decent player (for a stretch anyway).

:lol at first I thought you were trolling, but then I realized that you have to be somewhat intelligent to troll.

The rebound rate that he showed you most definitely accounts for pace, but just for the sake of argument let's throw another stat in there...

PER accounts for pace. Let's have a look at those numbers:

Duncan: 24.45 (#6 in the league)
Gasol: 19.57 (#34 :lol)

Marc is a fantastic defender and passer, with a sweet jumper, but he's not the best big in the game. Hell, he's not even the best rebounding/scoring big on his own team.

Duncan is the better scorer, rebounder, and leader. Passing and overall defense are a wash. There are only 2 things in all of basketball that Marc does better than Duncan: pick and roll D and FT shooting (barely).

[racm]

Fat Gasol is 7'1" and has a rebounding rate similar to Brook Lopez's, tbh...

[CitizenDwayne]

God damn Marc Gasol has become the most overated player in the NBA.

It's like everyone has decided to start sucking his dick at once, after years of flying under the radar.

[Latarian Milton]

plus Marc & bynum would be surpluses to each other and you'll have to split minutes at C between these two niggas, which means both niggas being underused.

[whitemamba]

Gasol is a beast. Does it all for a big man, not going to get mad that we got pau though LkrFan, Pau in his prime was the best big in the league.

[100%duncan]

Lakerfans, owned by stats. Per par.

[Findog]

I know hindsight is 20/20, but is wish we never traded his rights to the Grizzlies. This dude has a wet jumper. He bangs. He rebounds. He swats. He's a crafty passer. His hoops IQ is on par with his soft brother.

He just won DPOY and has improved each year he has played. He still hasn't reached his ceiling. He played a major role in 8 and if they beat the Clipps this year (I expect it tbh), he'll be the catalyst.

What's not to like about him? I'd trade Howard for this dude right now and not think twice tbh.

Typical Laker fan. Without Pau you don't ring in 2009 and 2010. He'll be fine next year after the Lakers amnesty him and he goes to a team that knows how to use him, instead of Coach Pringles having him shoot 18 foot jumpers.

[LkrFan]

Typical Laker fan. Without Pau you don't ring in 2009 and 2010. He'll be fine next year after the Lakers amnesty him and he goes to a team that knows how to use him, instead of Coach Pringles having him shoot 18 foot jumpers.
They won't amnesty him. Trade is more likely. What would they gain through amnesty if he has great trade value as an expiring $19M contract?

Agreed on how they (MB & MDA) did not using him correctly, but even if they did - for at least 2 years - Marc has been a better center than him too.

[LkrFan]

plus Marc & bynum would be surpluses to each other and you'll have to split minutes at C between these two niggas, which means both niggas being underused.
In this scenario you trade Bynum and build around Marc.

[LkrFan]

God damn Marc Gasol has become the most overated player in the NBA.
He's an all star. He also just won DPOY to go with his complete offensive game. We'll see if he's overrated if you guys matchup. :rolleyes

[midnightpulp]

Probably the 2nd best big in the league right now behind Duncan.

And that's not my homerism speaking. Duncan has been in stroke this year on both ends of the court, and should've won DPOY, but I think his comparatively lower minutes compared to Gasol and the games his missed due to injury/rest is why he didn't.

[100%duncan]

Doesn't deserve DPOY. Duncan or Lebron should've won it tbh.

[JRHernandez88]

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8123/8684303293_e1b180cdd2_o.gif



http://imageshack.us/a/img15/2228/timduncanokthatsenuf.png



he aint on the level

[LkrFan]

:lmao Backpedaling.

:lmao Duncan not even playing as many minutes as Gasol.

:lmao You're fucking wrong.

http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view5/2166935/wrong-wrong-wrong-wrong-o.gif
Not backpedaling in the least. Answer my question: would Duncan put up the same numbers in Memphis? The answer is no. Pop, to his credit, changed the offense up they last few years. This caused Duncan to put up better numbers. I mean, just in 2011, he was a 13/8 "all star." Now two years later he's 17/9?

Simply put, put Marc in the Spurs offense and you will see him beast. SAS are 6th in pace. Memphis is 29th of 30 teams. LINK (http://espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/teamstats/_/sort/paceFactor)

Pace inflates stats son. :downspin:

[LkrFan]

Probably the 2nd best big in the league right now behind Duncan.

And that's not my homerism speaking. Duncan has been in stroke this year on both ends of the court, and should've won DPOY, but I think his comparatively lower minutes compared to Gasol and the games his missed due to injury/rest is why he didn't.
Cry Havoc won't answer so I'll ask you. Would Duncan put up the same numbers in Memphis? Bonus question: would Marc's numbers spike as a Spur?

[midnightpulp]

Cry Havoc won't answer so I'll ask you. Would Duncan put up the same numbers in Memphis? Bonus question: would Marc's numbers spike as a Spur?

I think Duncan's scoring would drop a couple of points in Memphis, but his rebounding and blocks would remain virtually the same. Even adjusting for pace, Duncan's a flat out better rebounder with a 5% higher rebound rate.

Gasol would probably be close to a 20 ppg scorer in San Antonio (since he's younger, his minutes wouldn't be managed like Duncan's, so he'd probably play 35-37 minutes a game and he'd get more easy points in SA's system), but I don't think his rebounding/blocks increases that much. Gasol has never averaged more than 10 boards a game, even before Memphis was a grit-and-grind team.

By any measure this year: stats, advanced stats, the eye test, Duncan has been the better player.

However, Gasol is on the rise.

[100%duncan]

Not backpedaling in the least. Answer my question: would Duncan put up the same numbers in Memphis? The answer is no. Pop, to his credit, changed the offense up they last few years. This caused Duncan to put up better numbers. I mean, just in 2011, he was a 13/8 "all star." Now two years later he's 17/9?

Simply put, put Marc in the Spurs offense and you will see him beast. SAS are 6th in pace. Memphis is 29th of 30 teams. LINK (http://espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/teamstats/_/sort/paceFactor)

Pace inflates stats son. :downspin:

Talkin about stats when you can't answer directly how Duncan has clearly been better on Gasol in almost every aspect of the game. And yes you are backpedaling when you start talking about team systems obviously Spurs' system is waaaaaaay better than Memphis' but we're talking about individual numbers here son and you started it so don't go running to the "Duncan has a better system surrounding him :cry" card. :lmao

[Brunodf]

Not backpedaling in the least. Answer my question: would Duncan put up the same numbers in Memphis? The answer is no. Pop, to his credit, changed the offense up they last few years. This caused Duncan to put up better numbers. I mean, just in 2011, he was a 13/8 "all star." Now two years later he's 17/9?

Simply put, put Marc in the Spurs offense and you will see him beast. SAS are 6th in pace. Memphis is 29th of 30 teams. LINK (http://espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/teamstats/_/sort/paceFactor)

Pace inflates stats son. :downspin:
Exacly, Pop changed the system, Duncan wasn't getting as many touches in the post, that's why his ppg were so low in 2011.
Now he adapted his game to this new system(shooting more jumpers).
Every % stat take into account pace.
And Duncan played pretty well when he was the centerpiece of Spurs offense in the past(despite the low pace)

[TDfan2007]

Cry Havoc won't answer so I'll ask you. Would Duncan put up the same numbers in Memphis? Bonus question: would Marc's numbers spike as a Spur?

I answered you, but you didn't address that post since it diced your "argument" up. Also, someone else addressed rebound rate, which you seem to have a really tough time understanding.

I showed you earlier how PER takes pace into account, and here is an example:

2003 Duncan, on one of the most slow-paced, "boring" teams in the league: PER 27.0

Marc Gasol, in his prime now, on one of the most slow-paced teams in the league: 19.57

And before you say it, no I'm not comparing prime Timmy to prime Gasol. I'm merely showing you that PER doesn't discriminate against players on slow-paced teams.

Again, Gasol isn't even the best rebounding/scoring big on his own team. Overall though, I'd say he's the 2nd or 3rd best big in the league, so you're not far off.

[LkrFan]

I think Duncan's scoring would drop a couple of points in Memphis, but his rebounding and blocks would remain virtually the same. Even adjusting for pace, Duncan's a flat out better rebounder with a 5% higher rebound rate.

Gasol would probably be close to a 20 ppg scorer in San Antonio (since he's younger, his minutes wouldn't be managed like Duncan's, so he'd probably play 35-37 minutes a game and he'd get more easy points in SA's system), but I don't think his rebounding/blocks increases that much. Gasol has never averaged more than 10 boards a game, even before Memphis was a grit-and-grind team.

By any measure this year: stats, advanced stats, the eye test, Duncan has been the better player.

However, Gasol is on the rise.
Fair enough...but:



Since 1996-97, Marc Gasol is tied for the fourth-highest defensive efficiency amongst DPOY award winners, according to ESPN Stats & Info.
Boiled down: he is the best defender in the NBA (http://espn.go.com/nba/playoffs/2013/story/_/id/9207559/marc-gasol-memphis-grizzlies-wins-defensive-player-year-honors) & is a better defender than Duncan right now.

and... FGA comparison: Duncan: 50.2%. Marc G: 49.4% - BIG difference there! :lol

and... Passing? Marc got there 4apg to 2.7apg

and... Rebounding? TD has to compete with Tiago Shitter and his 6.4 rpg. Marc has to compete with Z-Bo's 11.2 rpg. I'd argue if Memphis played at a higher pace (more opp for snatching rebs off misses) or if he wasn't competing with an elite rebounder, he'd be a double double machine... Like David Lee. Duncan's rebounds are inflated just like David Lee. You think David Lee averages 11.2 rebs in Memphis? I don't. He gets them boards due to GS being 4th in pace (vs SAS being 6th).

and... TD outscored him by a whopping 3.8ppg. What's that - a difference of about 2 layups/game? :lol

Now swatting - I'll give TD. But that's it. Change the teams and I guarantee you would agree that Marc Gasol is the best big man in the game. Even though you won't publicly admit it on ST. ;)

[LkrFan]

Exacly, Pop changed the system, Duncan wasn't getting as many touches in the post, that's why his ppg were so low in 2011.
Now he adapted his game to this new system(shooting more jumpers).
Every % stat take into account pace.
And Duncan played pretty well when he was the centerpiece of Spurs offense in the past(despite the low pace)Put Marc in place of Duncan and he would surpass all of his 2013 Grizzly stats. There's no doubt in my mind.

#PACEMATTERS

[LkrFan]

I answered you, but you didn't address that post since it diced your "argument" up. Also, someone else addressed rebound rate, which you seem to have a really tough time understanding.

I showed you earlier how PER takes pace into account, and here is an example:

2003 Duncan, on one of the most slow-paced, "boring" teams in the league: PER 27.0

Marc Gasol, in his prime now, on one of the most slow-paced teams in the league: 19.57

And before you say it, no I'm not comparing prime Timmy to prime Gasol. I'm merely showing you that PER doesn't discriminate against players on slow-paced teams.

Again, Gasol isn't even the best rebounding/scoring big on his own team. Overall though, I'd say he's the 2nd or 3rd best big in the league, so you're not far off.
Rebounding rate goes up due to pace. More FGAs usually means more chances at rebounds. There is a significant correlation between pace and ppg it seems. SAS are 4th in ppg and coincidently 6th in pace. Memphis? 26th and 29th respectively.

PER may not discriminate, but it appears your style of offense does (pace). :)

[LkrFan]

Actually, if you put TD next to an elite rebounder like Z-Bo, his rebounding numbers would drop. As it stands right now, he only has Marc by like 2/game - competing with the likes of the Red Rocket! and Tiago Shitter. :lol

[Brunodf]

Put Marc in place of Duncan and he would surpass all of his 2013 Grizzly stats. There's no doubt in my mind.

#PACEMATTERS
:cryI can't find stats to back up "the best big man in the game" so i changed my speech to coulda/woulda/shoulda/if/speculation:cry
:lolYou really don't know how to troll people

[LkrFan]

:cryI can't find stats to back up "the best big man in the game" so i changed my speech to coulda/woulda/shoulda/if/speculation:cry
:lolYou really don't know how to troll people
I didn't change jack. You guys brought in stats. i refuted them with my own. Now go back upstairs GNSF before I take off my belt and tear det ass a new one. :lol

[LarryDavid]

Rebounding rate goes up due to pace. More FGAs usually means more chances at rebounds. There is a significant correlation between pace and ppg it seems. SAS are 4th in ppg and coincidently 6th in pace. Memphis? 26th and 29th respectively.

PER may not discriminate, but it appears your style of offense does (pace). :)

Here are stats based on pace. (Per 100 Possessions). What's your next argument?
http://stats.nba.com/playerVsPlayer.html?PlayerID=1495&VsPlayerID=201188&MeasureType=Base&PerMode=Per100Possessions





Tim Duncan
Marc Gasol




FG%

50.2%
49.4%


REB
15.8
10.7


AST
4.3
5.5


BLK
4.2
2.4


PTS
28.3

19.3


+/-
10.6
7.5

[100%duncan]

I didn't change jack. You guys brought in stats. i refuted them with my own. Now go back upstairs GNSF before I take off my belt and tear det ass a new one. :lol

No you didn't. You backpedaled and played the "what if" and "Spurs system>Grizz System so it benefits TD" cards.

[Cry Havoc]

:lol at first I thought you were trolling, but then I realized that you have to be somewhat intelligent to troll.

The rebound rate that he showed you most definitely accounts for pace, but just for the sake of argument let's throw another stat in there...

PER accounts for pace. Let's have a look at those numbers:

Duncan: 24.45 (#6 in the league)
Gasol: 19.57 (#34 :lol)

Marc is a fantastic defender and passer, with a sweet jumper, but he's not the best big in the game. Hell, he's not even the best rebounding/scoring big on his own team.

Duncan is the better scorer, rebounder, and leader. Passing and overall defense are a wash. There are only 2 things in all of basketball that Marc does better than Duncan: pick and roll D and FT shooting (barely).


Cry Havoc won't answer so I'll ask you. Would Duncan put up the same numbers in Memphis? Bonus question: would Marc's numbers spike as a Spur?

:lmao

Unsurprising that you are illiterate considering that you are a Lakers fan.

[LkrFan]

Here are stats based on pace. (Per 100 Possessions). What's your next argument?
http://stats.nba.com/playerVsPlayer.html?PlayerID=1495&VsPlayerID=201188&MeasureType=Base&PerMode=Per100Possessions





Tim Duncan
Marc Gasol


FG%
50.2%
49.4%


REB
15.8
10.7


AST
4.3
5.5


BLK
4.2
2.4


PTS
28.3
19.3


+/-
10.6
7.5








Duncan averaged over 25ppg ONCE in his entire career (http://www.nba.com/playerfile/tim_duncan/career_stats.html) and never averaged even 13rpg. GTFO with this BS link. :lol

[LkrFan]

No you didn't. You backpedaled and played the "what if" and "Spurs system>Grizz System so it benefits TD" cards.
Truth hurts. Facts check:

Spurs are 4th in ppg
Spurs are 6th in pace
Spurs are 1st in apg
Spurs are 1st in 3pt%
Spurs are 2nd in FG%
Spurs are 3rd in FT%

In short, the Spurs are an offensive juggernaut. They are no less than 6th in 6 major offensive categories. You think having a good offensive skillet on a great offensive team won't positively impact your numbers? :lolK

[Latarian Milton]

guy's ceiling is no higher than a prime kaman imho.

[midnightpulp]

Duncan averaged over 25ppg ONCE in his entire career (http://www.nba.com/playerfile/tim_duncan/career_stats.html) and never averaged even 13rpg. GTFO with this BS link. :lol

Duncan's never played on team in his prime that averaged that many possessions.

Why are you back to your shitposting? I know you have to rep the best player on the Lakers farm team, but we're showing you that even if you adjusted for pace, Duncan's stats would still be better.

You'd embarrass yourself much less if you just admitted you were wrong. Feel free to bring all the qualitative arguments for Gasol that you can, but Duncan wins the hard stat argument in every conceivable way.

[LkrFan]

Duncan's never played on team in his prime that averaged that many possessions.

Why are you back to your shitposting? I know you have to rep the best player on the Lakers farm team, but we're showing you that even if you adjusted for pace, Duncan's stats would still be better.

You'd embarrass yourself much less if you just admitted you were wrong. Feel free to bring all the qualitative arguments for Gasol that you can, but Duncan wins the hard stat argument in every conceivable way.
Expected. This is a Spurs' board, after all.

What those stats don't account for is if Gasol played on 2012-2013 Spurs' team - instead of Grizzlies'. If it does, I'll admit I'm wrong. Deal?

[HarlemHeat37]

Marc Gasol's scoring efficiency from the field is relatively weak for a C that plays his style of play(he's efficient overall because of his FT shooting, though), despite having a 19% usage rate, which is lower than both Mike Conley and Zach Randolph..

Gasol is essentially the 3rd scoring option on a mediocre offense:lol..

Duncan had a 28% usage rate this year, an extremely high load, yet still produced better offensive numbers, despite Parker's declining play in the 2nd half of the season, and Ginobili being terrible all year..

Duncan's defensive metrics were better, too..let's not ignore the fact that Marc Gasol has the best defensive backcourt in the NBA in front of him, tbh..

Gasol should be in the discussion with players like Griffin, Bosh and Aldridge, rather than Duncan or even current Nowitzki, tbh..

[LarryDavid]

Duncan averaged over 25ppg ONCE in his entire career (http://www.nba.com/playerfile/tim_duncan/career_stats.html) and never averaged even 13rpg. GTFO with this BS link. :lol


GTFO out here with your 3rd grade reading comprehension. These numbers aren't PER GAME. They are based on PACE. Per 100 possessions. #PACEMATTERS remember? Other than Assists, Duncan is still having a superior year than Gasol.

[LkrFan]

I think Duncan's scoring would drop a couple of points in Memphis, but his rebounding and blocks would remain virtually the same. Even adjusting for pace, Duncan's a flat out better rebounder with a 5% higher rebound rate.

Gasol would probably be close to a 20 ppg scorer in San Antonio (since he's younger, his minutes wouldn't be managed like Duncan's, so he'd probably play 35-37 minutes a game and he'd get more easy points in SA's system), but I don't think his rebounding/blocks increases that much. Gasol has never averaged more than 10 boards a game, even before Memphis was a grit-and-grind team.

By any measure this year: stats, advanced stats, the eye test, Duncan has been the better player.

However, Gasol is on the rise.
I forgot to disagree with this in my original reply. TD + elite rebounder (Z-Bo) = less total rebounds. Agree or disagree?

[LkrFan]

GTFO out here with your 3rd grade reading comprehension. These numbers aren't PER GAME. They are based on PACE. Per 100 possessions. #PACEMATTERS remember? Other than Assists, Duncan is still having a superior year than Gasol.
:lol

[HarlemHeat37]

I forgot to disagree with this in my original reply. TD + elite rebounder (Z-Bo) = less total rebounds. Agree or disagree?

Z-Bo's presence also = Marc Gasol frequently being guarded by the inferior defensive big on the opposing team, tbh..yet still scoring at a relatively weak rate on lower usage..

[LkrFan]

Marc Gasol's scoring efficiency from the field is relatively weak for a C that plays his style of play(he's efficient overall because of his FT shooting, though), despite having a 19% usage rate, which is lower than both Mike Conley and Zach Randolph..

Gasol is essentially the 3rd scoring option on a mediocre offense:lol..

Duncan had a 28% usage rate this year, an extremely high load, yet still produced better offensive numbers, despite Parker's declining play in the 2nd half of the season, and Ginobili being terrible all year..

Duncan's defensive metrics were better, too..let's not ignore the fact that Marc Gasol has the best defensive backcourt in the NBA in front of him, tbh..

Gasol should be in the discussion with players like Griffin, Bosh and Aldridge, rather than Duncan or even current Nowitzki, tbh..
:lol - especially the "current _irk" bolded part.

[LkrFan]

Z-Bo's presence also = Marc Gasol frequently being guarded by the inferior defensive big on the opposing team, tbh..yet still scoring at a relatively weak rate on lower usage..
Story of TD's career. Feast off of players 3-5" shorter than him and he still averaged 25ppg :lolNCE.

[duhoh]

and then you don't seem to see that the spurs system doesn't accentuate individual statistics, yet you use the system argument conveniently for gasol. motion offense son.

[midnightpulp]

I forgot to disagree with this in my original reply. TD + elite rebounder (Z-Bo) = less total rebounds. Agree or disagree?

Maybe one less board. Randolph gets a lot of offensive rebounds, usually off his own misses.

Also, Randolph only played 8 games last year and Gasol didn't break 9 rebounds per game in his absence. Gasol has never been considered a great rebounder. He's solid but not elite. So there's goes that argument that if Randolph was removed from the equation, Gasol would be a double-double machine.

[100%duncan]

Truth hurts. Facts check:

Spurs are 4th in ppg
Spurs are 6th in pace
Spurs are 1st in apg
Spurs are 1st in 3pt%
Spurs are 2nd in FG%
Spurs are 3rd in FT%

In short, the Spurs are an offensive juggernaut. They are no less than 6th in 6 major offensive categories. You think having a good offensive skillet on a great offensive team won't positively impact your numbers? :lolK

Yes it does. Does TD being better than Gasol in every aspect in the game hurt your ass too? I called and like I saw it and you just proved me right by posting that. Stuppid faggot. :lol

[JohnnyMax]

That boy soft like his brother

[midnightpulp]

Story of TD's career. Feast off of players 3-5" shorter than him and he still averaged 25ppg :lolNCE.

Rasheed Wallace, Kevin Garnett, Pau Gasol, Kurt Thomas, and now Dwight Howard are 3-5" shorter?

I've seen you spout that nonsense before and it's total bullshit. The opposing team always put their best interior defender on Duncan. You're probably just thinking about the series with the Lakers where Phil would put Horry on TD because Shaq's fatass often got crucified by Duncan down on the block. Horry's craftiness, quickness, and length actually offered more resistance than Shaq's girth.

[100%duncan]

Story of TD's career. Feast off of players 3-5" shorter than him and he still averaged 25ppg :lolNCE.

What's the story now faggot? That fucking old man at 37 is feasting off on two fucking 7 footers yours truly. :lmao

[LkrFan]

Maybe one less board. Randolph gets a lot of offensive rebounds, usually off his own misses.

Also, Randolph only played 8 games last year and Gasol didn't break 9 rebounds per game in his absence. Gasol has never been considered a great rebounder. He's solid but not elite. So there's goes that argument that if Randolph was removed from the equation, Gasol would be a double-double machine.
Disagree with the bolded. He'd be competing with an elite rebounder - unlike how he is with his next best rebounding teammate (6.4 rpg for Tiago Shitter).

Agreed about Marc not being an elite rebounder, but considering Memphis is 3.2 rpg from being #1 in the league, he must be getting the job done (statistically they rank 11th).

[LkrFan]

What's the story now faggot? That fucking old man at 37 is feasting off on two fucking 7 footers yours truly. :lmao
Sad, actually.

[LkrFan]

Rasheed Wallace, Kevin Garnett, Pau Gasol, Kurt Thomas, and now Dwight Howard are 3-5" shorter?

I've seen you spout that nonsense before and it's total bullshit. The opposing team always put their best interior defender on Duncan. You're probably just thinking about the series with the Lakers where Phil would put Horry on TD because Shaq's fatass often got crucified by Duncan down on the block. Horry's craftiness, quickness, and length actually offered more resistance than Shaq's girth.
I'll admit to the bolded. The last part of that sentence is bogus though. Pop would hide Duncan on players like Horry, AC Green, or Horace Grant - or Shaq would foul him out by halftime. In crunch time, when 485lb Shaq was tired (and couldn't make a FT to save his life) this is when Duncan guarded Shaq.

[midnightpulp]

Disagree with the bolded. He'd be competing with an elite rebounder - unlike how he is with his next best rebounding teammate (6.4 rpg for Tiago Shitter).

Agreed about Marc not being an elite rebounder, but considering Memphis is 3.2 rpg from being #1 in the league, he must be getting the job done (statistically they rank 11th).

But Duncan, at 37, is still an elite rebounder. So Randolph would also have to "compete" with him. Works both ways.

[midnightpulp]

I'll admit to the bolded. The last part of that sentence is bogus though. Pop would hide Duncan on players like Horry, AC Green, or Horace Grant - or Shaq would foul him out by halftime. In crunch time, when 485lb was tired (and couldn't make a FT to save his life) this is when Duncan guarded Shaq.

Yeah, it'd be a great basketball move to put your best player on their best player who is unguardable and risk fouling/tiring him out.

And the last part isn't bogus. Shaq could never guard Duncan. Too slow. Duncan couldn't guard him either, which is why they didn't bang on the block for any extended period of time back in the day.

[whitemamba]

pulp stop hiding ur fucking sig

[LkrFan]

Yeah, it'd be a great basketball move to put your best player on their best player who is unguardable and risk fouling/tiring him out.

And the last part isn't bogus. Shaq could never guard Duncan. Too slow. Duncan couldn't guard him either, which is why they didn't bang on the block for any extended period of time back in the day.
PJ didn't hide prime Kobe against AI, or RA, or LBJ... IJS.

[midnightpulp]

PJ didn't hide Kobe against AI, or RA, or LBJ... IJS.

Yeah he did. All the time. Kobe would only guard those players at the end of quarters or for like the last two minutes of the game. Rick Fox was the 3 peat Lakers heavy lifter as far as perimeter defense went. And that's okay. It's ill advised to wear your best offensive players out having them guard the opposing best player.

Besides, equating perimeter defense with interior defense is retarded. Much easier to pick up fouls banging on the inside than it is on the perimeter. And if you played basketball, you know post defense is more tiring to play and wears you out much quicker than perimeter defense. All the latter requires is good stamina, while the former requires you to use your entire body.

[Brunodf]

:lolPeople still feeding the troll

[Arcadian]

Truth hurts. Facts check:

Spurs are 4th in ppg
Spurs are 6th in pace
Spurs are 1st in apg
Spurs are 1st in 3pt%
Spurs are 2nd in FG%
Spurs are 3rd in FT%

In short, the Spurs are an offensive juggernaut. They are no less than 6th in 6 major offensive categories. You think having a good offensive skillet on a great offensive team won't positively impact your numbers? :lolK

You seem to be making the argument that "the Spurs system makes Duncan's stats better." But the Spurs system is based around Duncan. Therefore, it could be that Duncan makes the system as good as it is. If that were the case, it would reverse the direction of causality and undermine your argument.

[midnightpulp]

:lolPeople still feeding the troll

He's not a troll actually. Lkrfan has a terabyte worth of retarded takes that he believes in 100% and we're always happy here at Spurstalk, being the charitable people we are, to help him further his basketball education.

One positive to emerge is that he's finally seemed to understand how pace can inflate stats. So I was happy to see him try to use that argument, even if he did misapply it.

You're learning, Lkrfan. You're learning.

[unforeseen]

Fat Gasol is better than Howard and Pussy Gasol combined.

[Johnny RIngo]

I'll admit to the bolded. The last part of that sentence is bogus though. Pop would hide Duncan on players like Horry, AC Green, or Horace Grant - or Shaq would foul him out by halftime. In crunch time, when 485lb Shaq was tired (and couldn't make a FT to save his life) this is when Duncan guarded Shaq.

This was posted on another forum. It's an analysis of the Spurs defense on Shaq:

I decided to go over the 01, 02, 03 Lakers/Spurs playoffs series to see who was primarily guarding Shaq and how effective they were in guarding him. I didn't go over every possession, but I decided to look at every FGA and turnovers forced that Shaq had in those games. I didn't get every game from that 01-03 span, but I did get a majority of them.

vs. Duncan: 21-49 (.429), 8 TOV (5 of them charges/offensive fouls drawn)

vs. Robinson: 31-63 (.492), 5 TOV (1 offensive foul)

vs. Rose: 15-27 (.556), 2 TOV (2 offensive fouls)

vs. Other big men (Bryant, Willis, Walker): 6-12, 1 TOV (1 offensive foul)

vs. Guards: 0-3

vs. open shots with no one guarding Shaq: 11-13

I also kept track of double teams both before the shot and double teams during the shot (sometimes both happened). I didn't count double teams that had no effect on the shot or soft double teams.

vs. Duncan: 11 before shot, 14 after shot, 20 total double teams (35.1% double team%)

vs. Robinson: 10 before shot, 15 after shot, 23 total double teams (33.8% double team%)

vs. Rose: 4 before shot, 5 after shot (33.3% double team%)

vs. other big men: 2 before shot, 3 after shot, 3 total double teams (23.1 double team%)

In 2003, The Spurs made a concerted effort not to double Shaq. They even mentioned it in one of the broadcasts where Popovich told them that they didn't want anyone else to beat them. In the other years, Shaq got a decent amount of double teams and very few triple teams. Most of the double teams I saw were soft and had no effect. Shaq was making his move by the time the double came.


Now here are the stats for who was guarding Shaq in the games Duncan/Robinson played (Robinson missed 1 of the games). This is why I started the project. I wanted to see if Robinson was the sole Shaq defender or if the Spurs took turns defending him.

Duncan 31.0%
Robinson 46.9%
Rose 19.3%
Willis 2.1%
Walker 0.7%

I didn't include any wide open shots or times when guards defended him. Usually, Robinson started off the game vs. Shaq. Then Rose would come in and guard Shaq and take turns with Duncan. Usually in the middle of the game, Duncan and Robinson took turns guarding Shaq even in clutch situations.

Duncan looked better vs. Shaq and the numbers back it up. There were plenty of instances where Shaq couldn't back down Duncan. But Shaq did dunk on him quite a bit. Shaq dunked on everyone from the Spurs.

[Johnny RIngo]

PJ didn't hide prime Kobe against AI, or RA, or LBJ... IJS.

:lol If that's true why was Tyronn Lue defending Iverson in the Finals?

[midnightpulp]

This was posted on another forum. It's an analysis of the Spurs defense on Shaq:

I decided to go over the 01, 02, 03 Lakers/Spurs playoffs series to see who was primarily guarding Shaq and how effective they were in guarding him. I didn't go over every possession, but I decided to look at every FGA and turnovers forced that Shaq had in those games. I didn't get every game from that 01-03 span, but I did get a majority of them.

vs. Duncan: 21-49 (.429), 8 TOV (5 of them charges/offensive fouls drawn)

vs. Robinson: 31-63 (.492), 5 TOV (1 offensive foul)

vs. Rose: 15-27 (.556), 2 TOV (2 offensive fouls)

vs. Other big men (Bryant, Willis, Walker): 6-12, 1 TOV (1 offensive foul)

vs. Guards: 0-3

vs. open shots with no one guarding Shaq: 11-13

I also kept track of double teams both before the shot and double teams during the shot (sometimes both happened). I didn't count double teams that had no effect on the shot or soft double teams.

vs. Duncan: 11 before shot, 14 after shot, 20 total double teams (35.1% double team%)

vs. Robinson: 10 before shot, 15 after shot, 23 total double teams (33.8% double team%)

vs. Rose: 4 before shot, 5 after shot (33.3% double team%)

vs. other big men: 2 before shot, 3 after shot, 3 total double teams (23.1 double team%)

In 2003, The Spurs made a concerted effort not to double Shaq. They even mentioned it in one of the broadcasts where Popovich told them that they didn't want anyone else to beat them. In the other years, Shaq got a decent amount of double teams and very few triple teams. Most of the double teams I saw were soft and had no effect. Shaq was making his move by the time the double came.


Now here are the stats for who was guarding Shaq in the games Duncan/Robinson played (Robinson missed 1 of the games). This is why I started the project. I wanted to see if Robinson was the sole Shaq defender or if the Spurs took turns defending him.

Duncan 31.0%
Robinson 46.9%
Rose 19.3%
Willis 2.1%
Walker 0.7%

I didn't include any wide open shots or times when guards defended him. Usually, Robinson started off the game vs. Shaq. Then Rose would come in and guard Shaq and take turns with Duncan. Usually in the middle of the game, Duncan and Robinson took turns guarding Shaq even in clutch situations.

Duncan looked better vs. Shaq and the numbers back it up. There were plenty of instances where Shaq couldn't back down Duncan. But Shaq did dunk on him quite a bit. Shaq dunked on everyone from the Spurs.

:downspin: dat shit, Lkrfan!

Masterful work, Ringo.

[LkrFan]

:lol

[100%duncan]

:lol

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand all he can do now is just laugh, folks.

/thread. :hat

[Cry Havoc]

:lolPeople still feeding the troll

Not feeding. Demolishing/humiliating. There's a difference. The latter is so much more fun. :lol

[ambchang]

No way an actual person is this dumb.

First s/he can't understand rebounding rates, defensive ratings , etc. have already taken pace into account. Then s/he can't figure out100 possessions != per game averages. Then he can't figure out Randolph's rebounding to the griz = Duncan's rebounding on the spurs and gasol = splitter.

Has to be a troll.

[TDfan2007]

No way an actual person is this dumb.

First s/he can't understand rebounding rates, defensive ratings , etc. have already taken pace into account. Then s/he can't figure out100 possessions != per game averages. Then he can't figure out Randolph's rebounding to the griz = Duncan's rebounding on the spurs and gasol = splitter.

Has to be a troll.

:lol since LkrFan first got onto the board it's been one shitty take after another followed by a million of these once he can't argue his point anymore: ":lol"

[LkrFan]

ambchang, TDfan2007, Cry Havoc and other fags...this BUMP is for you. :toast

Fat Gasol putting in work against a formidable front line. He even hit a clutch jumper in Ibaka's eye - when the game was on the line.

Here's his statline:
23 points
11 rebs
6 swats

^ shit, does not include:

http://sports.cbsimg.net/images/visual/whatshot/Shotchart2.png

:downspin:

[Bynumite]

LkrFan dropping calculated shit bombs all over spurfan tbh.

[whitemamba]

LkrFan dropping calculated shit bombs all over spurfan tbh.

:lol

[HarlemHeat37]

He's playing at a very high level, I'll give him credit..he's still the 3rd option on offense, though..

It's also a little easier to dominate in the playoffs when you were being guarded by Blake Griffin in round 1 and Kevin Durant/Ibaka in round 2:lol..

[LkrFan]

LkrFan dropping calculated shit bombs all over spurfan tbh.

:toast

[Johnny RIngo]

ambchang, TDfan2007, Cry Havoc and other fags...this BUMP is for you. :toast

Fat Gasol putting in work against a formidable front line. He even hit a clutch jumper in Ibaka's eye - when the game was on the line.

Here's his statline:
23 points
11 rebs
6 swats

^ shit, does not include:

http://sports.cbsimg.net/images/visual/whatshot/Shotchart2.png

:downspin:

:lol at formidable. 2012 Spurs would have swept a Thunder team without Westbrook/Harden.

[ambchang]

Are you going to bump this thread every time Marc Gasol has a good game? This is beyond retarded.

BTW, my original thread was an observation at your abject stupidity and inability to understand arguments, not with Gasol's play. That said, Gasol is not the best big in the game right now, not even of those remaining in the playoffs.

[HarlemHeat37]

:downspin::downspin:

:lol most overrated big man in the NBA, tbh..

Why can't he take over when his team needs points?..

[midnightpulp]

:downspin: this shit, Lkrfan!

[Brunodf]

I think u are trolling but i am gonna bite.

Scoring
17,8 ppg(50% FG)[21,3 per 36] vs
14,1 (49% FG)[14,5 per 36]

Rebounding
9,9 rpg(19% TRB) [11,9 per 36]
7,8 rpg(13,1% TRB) [8,0 per 36]

Blocks
2,7 bpg(BLK%= 6,4) [3,2 per 36]
1,7 bpg(BLK%= 4,1) [1,8 per 36]

Duncan DRtg = 95
M.Gasol DRtg = 98 (and he has better defenders on his team than Timmy)






:rollinOP

[LkrFan]

Curse you HH! :rollin :lmao :rollin

[LkrFan]

:downspin: this shit, Lkrfan!:depressed

[Cry Havoc]

ambchang, TDfan2007, Cry Havoc and other fags...this BUMP is for you. :toast

Fat Gasol putting in work against a formidable front line. He even hit a clutch jumper in Ibaka's eye - when the game was on the line.

Here's his statline:
23 points
11 rebs
6 swats

^ shit, does not include:

http://sports.cbsimg.net/images/visual/whatshot/Shotchart2.png

:downspin:

:lmao

Fatsol getting schooled by a recent divorcee who's going to be walking with a cane in 3 years. :lol

[LkrFan]

:lmao

Fatsol getting schooled by a recent divorcee who's going to be walking with a cane in 3 years. :lol:lol

[z0sa]

:lol Duncan shitting all over this thread

[TDfan2007]

:lmao

Fatsol getting schooled by a recent divorcee who's going to be walking with a cane in 3 years. :lol

This

[lefty]

http://oi54.tinypic.com/k4flso.jpg

[Brunodf]

http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/2679999/facegasol.gif

[100%duncan]

:lmao

[Mal]

http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/2679999/facegasol.gif

/Thread :lmao

[Reck]

The Gasols cant catch a break. :lol

Pau gets his shit kicked in early then he goes to watch his brother get the same treatment.

How ironic.

[NRHector]

The Gasols cant catch a break. :lol

Pau gets his shit kicked in early then he goes to watch his brother get the same treatment.

How ironic.t

By the same man :lol

[Reck]

t

By the same man :lol

Touche' :lol

[CubanMustGo]

http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/2679999/facegasol.gif

Fastol even trying to flop after he gets hit with the ball. :lol

[Cry Havoc]

The Gasols cant catch a break. :lol

Pau gets his shit kicked in early then he goes to watch his brother get the same treatment.

How ironic.

Yep, that has to be doubly painful for Pau. Thinking, "Well Duncan beat us but at least the Grizzlies have a good shot." And then Duncan promptly takes a broom to fat brother's face. :lol

[benefactor]

http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/2679999/facegasol.gif
:lol

[Mel_13]

We talking 2013 here. This isn't a lifetime achievement award. TD is NOT better than him everywhere right now. Prove it.

Seems like TD has proved it.

[Seventyniner]

Slim Duncan > Fat Gasol

[Splits]

/Thread :lmao

Actually, we need the gif of Duncan going and-1 in OT forcing the fat Gasol to foul him with his face. Then /thread

[LkrFan]

This was posted on another forum. It's an analysis of the Spurs defense on Shaq:

I decided to go over the 01, 02, 03 Lakers/Spurs playoffs series to see who was primarily guarding Shaq and how effective they were in guarding him. I didn't go over every possession, but I decided to look at every FGA and turnovers forced that Shaq had in those games. I didn't get every game from that 01-03 span, but I did get a majority of them.

vs. Duncan: 21-49 (.429), 8 TOV (5 of them charges/offensive fouls drawn)

vs. Robinson: 31-63 (.492), 5 TOV (1 offensive foul)

vs. Rose: 15-27 (.556), 2 TOV (2 offensive fouls)

vs. Other big men (Bryant, Willis, Walker): 6-12, 1 TOV (1 offensive foul)

vs. Guards: 0-3

vs. open shots with no one guarding Shaq: 11-13

I also kept track of double teams both before the shot and double teams during the shot (sometimes both happened). I didn't count double teams that had no effect on the shot or soft double teams.

vs. Duncan: 11 before shot, 14 after shot, 20 total double teams (35.1% double team%)

vs. Robinson: 10 before shot, 15 after shot, 23 total double teams (33.8% double team%)

vs. Rose: 4 before shot, 5 after shot (33.3% double team%)

vs. other big men: 2 before shot, 3 after shot, 3 total double teams (23.1 double team%)

In 2003, The Spurs made a concerted effort not to double Shaq. They even mentioned it in one of the broadcasts where Popovich told them that they didn't want anyone else to beat them. In the other years, Shaq got a decent amount of double teams and very few triple teams. Most of the double teams I saw were soft and had no effect. Shaq was making his move by the time the double came.


Now here are the stats for who was guarding Shaq in the games Duncan/Robinson played (Robinson missed 1 of the games). This is why I started the project. I wanted to see if Robinson was the sole Shaq defender or if the Spurs took turns defending him.

Duncan 31.0%
Robinson 46.9%
Rose 19.3%
Willis 2.1%
Walker 0.7%

I didn't include any wide open shots or times when guards defended him. Usually, Robinson started off the game vs. Shaq. Then Rose would come in and guard Shaq and take turns with Duncan. Usually in the middle of the game, Duncan and Robinson took turns guarding Shaq even in clutch situations.

Duncan looked better vs. Shaq and the numbers back it up. There were plenty of instances where Shaq couldn't back down Duncan. But Shaq did dunk on him quite a bit. Shaq dunked on everyone from the Spurs.

:lol 3-13 FGAs
:lol 6-24 FGAs >>>>> 3-13 FGAs
:lol 1 assistesis
:lol chucking and hogging at the same time on the biggest stage
:lol 30 minutes (Too Tired Timmy?)
:lol -14
:lol no blocks
:lol 9 more points than me and I didn't play
:lol Winner of the 2013 ugly ass shirt award
:lol listening to paint dry is less boring than TD press conference
:lol brining down Finals' ratings despite playing the Kang
:lol outplayed by Bosh Spice and bukkaked by this guy:

http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQFfLrAufUPGr1j_xoXnRQlWGTIRwnIH ROF4yq2R3F02zt5cRNWxjZKsg

:lol at TD being the "Best big man in the game"

:downspin:

[midnightpulp]

You're seriously going to bump this after Duncan outplayed both Gasol and Randolph in the last series?

You're getting mighty desperate for one of your takes to hold up as true, ain't ya?

[LkrFan]

You're seriously going to bump this after Duncan outplayed both Gasol and Randolph in the last series?

You're getting mighty desperate for one of your takes to hold up as true, ain't ya?

Nothing needs to be said son. Even the stoic Timmay has nothing to say:

http://a.espncdn.com/photo/2013/0609/nba_g_parkerduncan_gb1_576.jpg

3-13 FGAs. No 3ptrs. No halfcourt shotclock buzzer beaters. Just.miss.after.miss. :lol

[midnightpulp]

Nothing needs to be said son. Even the stoic Timmay has nothing to say:

http://a.espncdn.com/photo/2013/0609/nba_g_parkerduncan_gb1_576.jpg

3-13 FGAs. No 3ptrs. No halfcourt shotclock buzzer beaters. Just.miss.after.miss. :lol

Just like Randolph and Gasol last series, right?

[LkrFan]

Just like Randolph and Gasol last series, right?

Deflecting again? I'll bite. Si' - but you gotta admit that he wasn't going against a HOF defensive big like Mutombo or Mourning... 6'5" Haslem, 219lb Bosh and Pedo Birdshit shut "the best big in the game" d:lolwn. :lmao

[midnightpulp]

Deflecting again? I'll bite. Si' - but you gotta admit that he wasn't going against a HOF defensive big like Mutombo or Mourning... 6'5" Haslem, 219lb Bosh and Pedo Birdshit shut "the best big in the game" d:lolwn. :lmao

But the fact he had a bad game against the Heat adds no validity to your take, since he just outplayed the guy you called the best big man in the game last series.

:lol So desperate for one of your takes to be true, you resort to this.

But yes, Duncan played like shit. Needs to quit with the turn around jumpers and just post up. 6 of his misses came from 11 feet and out. Unacceptable when the Heat have such a soft frontline. Pop needs to utilize "4 down" more next game and not be so overly concerned with "spacing," which is why Duncan is primarily a jumpshooting big man these days.

[LkrFan]

But the fact he had a bad game against the Heat adds no validity to your take, since he just outplayed the guy you called the best big man in the game last series.

:lol So desperate for one of your takes to be true, you resort to this.

But yes, Duncan played like shit. Needs to quit with the turn around jumpers and just post up. 6 of his misses came from 11 feet and out. Unacceptable when the Heat have such a soft frontline. Pop needs to utilize "4 down" more next game and not be so overly concerned with "spacing," which is why Duncan is primarily a jumpshooting big man these days.Me, desperate? I'm not seeking anyone's approval son. I'm just talking shit like I always d:lol.

Anywho, despite being the champs and having a great perimeter oriented team, they're front line is weak. Duncan should have demanded the rock on either block. He's taller and heavier than everyone on their roster. Easily should have beasted. Betaesque how he didn't take those light in the ass faggs on the lower block. You guys put this loss on Manure, but I put it squarely on TD. This series is his to win. Manure is playing against the strength of their team whereas TD is playing against their weakest links. Yet he goes out and shoots 3-13? Pathetic. :lol

And I believe if Memphis had a competent PG, no way Duncan outplays M Gasol tbh.

[LkrFan]

Who would have thunk it? In the 2013 NBA Finals: Birdshit >> TD. :lmao

[midnightpulp]

Me, desperate? I'm not seeking anyone's approval son. I'm just talking shit like I always d:lol.

Anywho, despite being the champs and having a great perimeter oriented team, they're front line is weak. Duncan should have demanded the rock on either block. He's taller and heavier than everyone on their roster. Easily should have beasted. Betaesque how he didn't take those light in the ass faggs on the lower block. You guys put this loss on Manure, but I put it squarely on TD. This series is his to win. Manure is playing against the strength of their team whereas TD is playing against their weakest links. Yet he goes out and shoots 3-13? Pathetic. :lol

And I believe if Memphis had a competent PG, no way Duncan outplays M Gasol tbh.

Yeah, Mike Conley is a scrub.

:downspin: it

Fact: Duncan shat on your "best big man in the game" and nothing that happens in this series will change that fact. Another one of your shit takes backfired and "u mad" about it, thus your bump of this thread. :lol Trying to salvage your dignity.

He also shat on Pau Gasol and Howard.

:lol at having to wait a month to get in a dig at Duncan (after 7-22 against the Warriors). Your balls must've been bluer than Dwight Howard's after he was shut down by Mary Carey in favor of that faggot NSYNC member :lol

[LkrFan]

Yeah, Mike Conley is a scrub.

:downspin: it
He was when they needed him to be a stud in det 4th game:
TP = 37 points, 6 assistesis
MC = 9 points, 7 assistesis (4-13 FGAs :lol)

Yes, I'm a what have you done for me lately type of fan. And lately, TD went 3-13 against a marshmello frontline. :lol


Fact: Duncan shat on your "best big man in the game" and nothing that happens in this series will change that fact. Another one of your shit takes backfired and "u mad" about it, thus your bump of this thread. :lol Trying to salvage your dignity.

He also shat on Pau Gasol and Howard.

http://skinslockin.e4.com/static/img/general/lol-bro-seriously-i-aint-even-mad-dawg_690.jpg

...in fact I'm chilling... not a care in the world :toast


:lol at having to wait a month to get in a dig at Duncan (after 7-22 against the Warriors). Your balls must've been bluer than Tim Duncan's - and we know why ;) :lol

FIFY S:loln

[midnightpulp]

He was when they needed him to be a stud in det 4th game:
TP = 37 points, 6 assistesis
MC = 9 points, 7 assistesis (4-13 FGAs :lol)

Yes, I'm a what have you done for me lately type of fan. And lately, TD went 3-13 against a marshmello frontline. :lol



http://skinslockin.e4.com/static/img/general/lol-bro-seriously-i-aint-even-mad-dawg_690.jpg

...in fact I'm chilling... not a care in the world :toast



FIFY S:loln

So you admit your balls were blue?

Thought so :lol

[LkrFan]

So you admit your balls were blue?

Thought so :lol

Hell n:lol son. -25 points for wondering about my saggin' deuce. :rollin

[100%duncan]

LkrFan you lost the right to bump this thread when Duncan tapped dat ass for 4 straight games yo. TBH, if you're gonna bump shit, bump shits that are legit. But then again, do you have those kind of threads? :lol

[midnightpulp]

LkrFan you lost the right to bump this thread when Duncan tapped dat ass for 4 straight games yo. TBH, if you're gonna bump shit, bump shits that are legit. But then again, do you have those kind of threads? :lol

The Wade TOSB take is his last hope. Wade has indeed looked like shit thus far.

Don't bump it, though, Lkrfan. It'll backfire and Wade will probably go off for 40 next game.

[JohnnyMax]

http://i.imgur.com/4JggblW.png