Westboro Baptist Church planning on protesting game 5 in OKC

[lakerhaterade]

http://blog.chron.com/ultimaterockets/2013/04/westboro-baptist-church-says-it-will-protest-game-5-in-okc/



The Rockets and Thunder matchup in Game 5 could have some added controversy, but it has nothing to do with the two teams.In light of NBA veteran Jason Collins becoming the first active professional athlete who is openly homosexual, Westboro Baptist Church’s Twitter account @WBCSays said Tuesday it will picket outside Chesapeake Energy Arena (http://t.co/r9I6Dt9jJ1) for the Rockets and Thunder Game 5 first-round playoff matchup.
Westboro supporters have sent out threatening messages to Collins, Thunder forward Kevin Durant and others associated with the NBA while also using a ‘#GodH8sTheNBA’ hashtag.
The independent church, led by pastor Fred Phelps and his daughter Margie, is known for protesting military funerals and believes that President Barack Obama is the Antichrist.
From WBC themselves:
http://www.godhatesfags.com/schedule.html

WBC has picketed your basketball games nationwide for yeasr, warning you that the NBA is full of fags. Now the has-been pervert Jason Collins has "come out" (as if anyone should care what goes on in his bedroom!) admitting that he is a proud fag. On top of that FLOTUS Michelle Obama sticks her nose into the bedroom business praising this filthy beast. Why can't you just shut-up about your filthy sexual preferences?! From Obama to the myriad of media mutts filling up the sports-airwaves, all are bowing down to his sin. It is put up or shut up time, faux Christians. Battle lines are drawn and ALL of you cursed citizens of this nation are standing on the wrong side. We at Westboro Baptist Church will do our Ezekial 33 duty! God has brought the sword to this land. Every citizen has an eternal duty to speak up and say STOP SINNING, or the blood that God will soon cause to flow in the streets of america will be on your hands! Faux-lying-Christians caused same sex marriage and the idolatrous milieu that has lead to these sports brutes spreading their filth across this filthy nation! God hates the NBA! Obey today!

[lefty]

RIP Russell Westbrook

[Monster1776]

If Westboro steps a single foot into Oklahoma, we'll be sure to show them a little good ole' fashioned southern hospitality to these "kindred" spirits.

[rayjayjohnson]

Meth rage tbh

[Thebesteva]

I'm a Christian, and I am ashamed of people like this. They are not true to the word of God, they think they represent God\Christ but they are really representing the other guy. I am not a fan of homosexuality, but to take time to protest gays and all this stuff is not the way of a good person\Christian.

[hater]

nothing a couple of pressure cookers won't fix. You think thundafan can spare a couple of pressure cookers, or is cooking meth for the game more important??

[baseline bum]

LOL Christians

[ambchang]

Christian version of jihadists.

[Chinook]

That post by the WBC is hilarious until you realize they're serious. I thought a SpursTalk troll had written it at first.

Frankly, I'm sort of surprised they know how to use computers.

[Woo Bum-kon]

I'm a Christian, and I am ashamed of people like this. They are not true to the word of God, they think they represent God\Christ but they are really representing the other guy. I am not a fan of homosexuality, but to take time to protest gays and all this stuff is not the way of a good person\Christian.

"Do not have sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman; that is detestable." (Lev 18:22 NIV)
"If a man has sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They are to be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads." (Lev 20:13 NIV)

No, their views seem pretty consistent with the word of God.

[Slutter McGee]

That post by the WBC is hilarious until you realize they're serious. I thought a SpursTalk troll had written it at first.

Frankly, I'm sort of surprised they know how to use computers.

But they are not serious. Not really. They are lawsuit trolls. All they are trying to do is to bait law enforcement and private individuals into doing something illegal or unconstitutional so they can make some money.

Slutter McGee

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

LOL Christians
Just another example of Christian hatred, tbh.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

If Westboro steps a single foot into Oklahoma, we'll be sure to show them a little good ole' fashioned southern hospitality to these "kindred" spirits.
:lol half of oklahomas population probably shares the same views as the westboro baptists
:lol jeebotard state

[jag]

"Do not have sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman; that is detestable." (Lev 18:22 NIV)
"If a man has sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They are to be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads." (Lev 20:13 NIV)

No, their views seem pretty consistent with the word of God.

Quoting Old Testament passages as a way to prove your point only shows your ignorance. If Christians followed OT "Law" they wouldn't be called "Christians" considering there is no "Christ" in the OT.

[Blake]

If Westboro steps a single foot into Oklahoma, we'll be sure to show them a little good ole' fashioned southern hospitality to these "kindred" spirits.

if they do step foot in Okie, you aren't going to do a damn thing about it, pussy.

[Chinook]

Quoting Old Testament passages as a way to prove your point only shows your ignorance. If Christians followed OT "Law" they wouldn't be called "Christians" considering there is no "Christ" in the OT.

Yeah, I wanted to say something on that. But I don't know enough to be certain. If I understand it correctly, most of Leviticus no longer applies to Christians and Jesus dying was supposed to remove some of the sin burden people had. It's the same reason why Christians don't half to keep kosher.

If anything, why aren't people thinking Jews and Muslims are hypocrites. As far as I understand it, both Judaism and Islam take Leviticus much more seriously than Christians, yet when people of both religions say their religion allows them to be tolerant of homosexuality, no one questions it.

[Woo Bum-kon]

Quoting Old Testament passages as a way to prove your point only shows your ignorance. If Christians followed OT "Law" they wouldn't be called "Christians" considering there is no "Christ" in the OT.

So, God once thought that homosexual behavior was deserving of death, but he doesn't now?

[jag]

If anything, why aren't people thinking Jews and Muslims are hypocrites. As far as I understand it, both Judaism and Islam take Leviticus much more seriously than Christians, yet when people of both religions say their religion allows them to be tolerant of homosexuality, no one questions it.

Judaism is based on the Torah, the first 5 books of the OT which includes Leviticus.

[Chinook]

So, God once thought that homosexual behavior was deserving of death, but he doesn't now?

Yeah. Having a kid really mellowed him out.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

So, God once thought that homosexual behavior was deserving of death, but he doesn't now?
He had an epiphany, similar to the one Southern Baptist Churches had about black people during the Civil Right movement.

[Chinook]

Judaism is based on the Torah, the first 5 books of the OT which includes Leviticus.

That's what I thought. So they should be bound to it more than Christians are, because they don't have a random figure to come down and tell them some things in it no longer applied.

[jag]

So, God once thought that homosexual behavior was deserving of death, but he doesn't now?

In the OT basically all sin was deserving of death. The same is true in the NT, with one major difference. If you're that interested I'm sure you can easily find answers via google.

[NASpurs]

Quoting Old Testament passages as a way to prove your point only shows your ignorance. If Christians followed OT "Law" they wouldn't be called "Christians" considering there is no "Christ" in the OT.

So what you're saying is that sacrificing animals isn't needed anymore? Oops, I fucked up then.

[Woo Bum-kon]

In the OT basically all sin was deserving of death. The same is true in the NT, with one major difference. If you're that interested I'm sure you can easily find answers via google.

I already know about your bullshit excuse.

God impregnated a woman with himself to sacrifice himself to himself for some stupid reason.

The perfect God needed a do-over, essentially. He fucked up his rules the first time around, so he used Jesus to change them. Let's ignore for a second that the New Testament repeatedly says not to ignore the Old Testament, and let's focus on the retarded idea that a perfect God would change his mind.

Homosexual behavior occurred before Jesus was born, and God thought that it was an abomination. Homosexual behavior occurs now, and Westboro Baptist Church thinks that it is an abomination. What is exactly incorrect about their statement?

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

I already know about your bullshit excuse.

God impregnated a woman with himself to sacrifice himself to himself for some stupid reason.

The perfect God needed a do-over, essentially. He fucked up his rules the first time around, so he used Jesus to change them. Let's ignore for a second that the New Testament repeatedly says not to ignore the Old Testament, and let's focus on the retarded idea that a perfect God would change his mind.

Homosexual behavior occurred before Jesus was born, and God thought that it was an abomination. Homosexual behavior occurs now, and Westboro Baptist Church thinks that it is an abomination. What is exactly incorrect about their statement?
They're the only Christian group with the guts to interpret the bible completely and accurately.

[jag]

I already know about your bullshit excuse.

God impregnated a woman with himself to sacrifice himself to himself for some stupid reason.

The perfect God needed a do-over, essentially. He fucked up his rules the first time around, so he used Jesus to change them. Let's ignore for a second that the New Testament repeatedly says not to ignore the Old Testament, and let's focus on the retarded idea that a perfect God would change his mind.

Homosexual behavior occurred before Jesus was born, and God thought that it was an abomination. Homosexual behavior occurs now, and Westboro Baptist Church thinks that it is an abomination. What is exactly incorrect about their statement?

Yeah, I'm not convinced you're interested in a sincere response. Let me know when you are.

[Woo Bum-kon]

Yeah, I'm not convinced you're interested in a sincere response. Let me know when you are.

I'm sorry your ridiculous belief in a fairy tale doesn't have any kind of logical support for it.

You're a cafeteria Christian. Most are. A true Christian would find homosexual behavior to be an abomination, per their own holy book. But no, they do intellectual gymnastics to come to the conclusion that everything they like in the Bible counts and everything they dislike doesn't.

[Spur-Addict]

Don't these people have anything better to do? Eh...

[jeebus]

NBA forum turning into the political forum as of late imo. NFL season needs to hurry up and start; these bullshit discussions wouldn't happen down there.

[Huey Freeman]

If Westboro steps a single foot into Oklahoma, we'll be sure to show them a little good ole' fashioned southern hospitality to these "kindred" spirits.

LOL since when is Oklahoma considered the south? When WBC does do their little protest Im sure the WBC members are going in shock of many Okies who walk over and join their little protest. Shit will probably boggle their homo hating minds.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

LOL since when is Oklahoma considered the south? When WBC does do their little protest Im sure the WBC members are going in shock of many Okies who walk over and join their little protest. Shit will probably boggle their homo hating minds.
:lol cosign. They're gonna realize how many Okies share their beliefs and probably double their membership while they're in OKC.

[Suspect]

good person\Christian.
contradiction imo

[jag]

I'm sorry your ridiculous belief in a fairy tale doesn't have any kind of logical support for it.

You're a cafeteria Christian. Most are. A true Christian would find homosexual behavior to be an abomination, per their own holy book. But no, they do intellectual gymnastics to come to the conclusion that everything they like in the Bible counts and everything they dislike doesn't.

So you refer to the lack of logical support for Christianity but, without any logical support, you reached numerous conclusions about my personal beliefs. This discussion is going places.

[Woo Bum-kon]

So you refer to the lack of logical support for Christianity but, without any logical support, you reached numerous conclusions about my personal beliefs. This discussion is going places.

Are you not a Christian?

[tp2021]

Surprised nobody has wasted a bullet on them yet tbh. Hopefully the next NBA player to come out plays for Chicago.

[jag]

Are you not a Christian?

I'm not sure why you're asking me. You already provided a detailed account of my beliefs. Unless you were being illogical, you should already have the answer. If you were in fact being illogical and unreasonable, then I'm not sure if I can trust you now. That would make you no better than Christians.

[blkroadrunners]

"Do not have sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman; that is detestable." (Lev 18:22 NIV)
"If a man has sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They are to be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads." (Lev 20:13 NIV)

No, their views seem pretty consistent with the word of God.

Yet the NT is totally contradictory to the OT.

[ambchang]

Sad how a number of posters here are using the hatred of an extreme segment of a large religious group to justify their own hatred of the group in it's entirety.

Also, shocked to see the ignorance of a religion being used as a form of logic to justify the hatred.

Serious question to W B-k and DoK, have you read the Bible in its entirety, and understand the context of all the passages you have quoted?

[Woo Bum-kon]

^ Except when it is not: http://www.evilbible.com/do_not_ignore_ot.htm

I'm not sure why you're asking me. You already provided a detailed account of my beliefs. Unless you were being illogical, you should already have the answer. If you were in fact being illogical and unreasonable, then I'm not sure if I can trust you now. That would make you no better than Christians.

It's perfectly logical to come to the conclusion that you are a Christian based off your Christian apologetics. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong.

Again, are you a Christian?

[NASpurs]

Serious question to W B-k and DoK, have you read the Bible in its entirety, and understand the context of all the passages you have quoted?

You mean posting from a biased website called "evilbible.com" isn't enough?!

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

Sad how a number of posters here are using the hatred of an extreme segment of a large religious group to justify their own hatred of the group in it's entirety.

Also, shocked to see the ignorance of a religion being used as a form of logic to justify the hatred.

Serious question to W B-k and DoK, have you read the Bible in its entirety, and understand the context of all the passages you have quoted?
No, I haven't read the bible. When I do read it's generally non-fiction.

[Woo Bum-kon]

I'd love for ambchang to present a context in which slavery is okay. Or murdering children. Or murdering homosexuals. Or forcing a woman to marry her rapist. Or genocide.

[BUMP]

If Westboro steps a single foot into Oklahoma, we'll be sure to show them a little good ole' fashioned southern hospitality to these "kindred" spirits.

FUCK YEAH!! That's what 'm talkin' bout, how it should be! 'Murica, freedom ain't free, hefty fee, not a dry eye, Jason Witten no helmet, catching a pass with :10 sec left against the hated Redskins in the SuperBowl, 70 yards to go, looking bleak, 3 guys piling on, looking like he's down, musters up enough courage to keep going while pulling the american flag out of his pocket, dragging 3 'skeens into the 'zone, clock expiring as he stretches the pigskin/american flag over the goalline where his son and wife are waiting for him, Boys win, Witten rushed by all the veterans in the stadium, hoisting the 'bardi trophy in one hand, son in the other, carried off the field to 'bama's private jet etc

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

:lmao

[NASpurs]

I'd love for ambchang to present a context in which slavery is okay. Or murdering children. Or murdering homosexuals. Or forcing a woman to marry her rapist. Or genocide.

:lmao

http://www.evilbible.com/Rape.htm
http://www.evilbible.com/Murder.htm
http://www.evilbible.com/Slavery.htm

Funny how people think Christians are brainwashed but you can also be brainwashed to the other extreme.

But here comes the typical:

:cry but being an extremist atheist doesn't mean I'll start blowing up churches :cry

You people talk like all the things you say are new.

[ambchang]

No, I haven't read the bible. When I do read it's generally non-fiction.

So I am assuming that you are taking the values and "rules" of Christianity based on observations of a select few individuals, or those reported by the media? Is that true? If so, you are arguing against the actions of a few people who may or may not represent a religion, rather than that of the religion itself.

Lumping the actions of a few self-proclaimed Christians who bomb abortion clinics, are pedophiles, or discriminate against others due their race or sexual orientation with a general population as a whole is akin to saying a few to saying that all atheists are mass murderers by taking the actions of a few atheist mass murderers as examples. The only difference is that the Christian group uses religion as an excuse to do these things that are directly contradictory to the central principles of their religious beliefs.

[ambchang]

I'd love for ambchang to present a context in which slavery is okay. Or murdering children. Or murdering homosexuals. Or forcing a woman to marry her rapist. Or genocide.

Read the entire book. There are certain central teachings that all the other rules revolve around.

If you haven't read the entire book, studied the historical context, or spent any significant time trying to understand the entire religion, you don't even know what you are arguing against.

It's like saying all Muslims are jihadists and terrorists, and that Allah condone those actions. It's bigoted and ignorant.

[Splits]

When I read the headline, my first thought was that the WBC would be marching in support of Abaka's Congolese fainting ritual after missing the chippy to end game 4.

http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/2554079/ibakablowslayup_medium.gif

[elbamba]

"Do not have sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman; that is detestable." (Lev 18:22 NIV)
"If a man has sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They are to be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads." (Lev 20:13 NIV)

No, their views seem pretty consistent with the word of God.

So God is cool with anal? Sweet.

[Woo Bum-kon]

Nice question dodge, ambchang. I am not reading the entire Bible. Please, explain to me how slavery can be okay.


:lmao

http://www.evilbible.com/Rape.htm
http://www.evilbible.com/Murder.htm
http://www.evilbible.com/Slavery.htm

Funny how people think Christians are brainwashed but you can also be brainwashed to the other extreme.

But here comes the typical:

:cry but being an extremist atheist doesn't mean I'll start blowing up churches :cry

You people talk like all the things you say are new.

And how am I brainwashed? All that shit is actually in the Bible, and I could have used the Skeptic's Annotated Bible to make my point, but chose not to.

You didn't address the points I made, by the way.

And :lmao at you equating extreme atheists to extreme theists, then acknowledging how stupid your point was.

[mrsmaalox]

Westboro is just bluffing; in the beginning they were able to generate enough media attention to make the protests worth their while because no one knew who they were. But now the counter protesters outnumber them and the media stories are all focused on that. They threatened to protest at the memorial services for the Boston victims and the West victims too but never showed up.

Of course they knew the Prez anti-Christ would also be in attendance, so they may have been too scared of a good smote! Or a good smoting? Eh I don't know how to say it :lol

[jag]

It's perfectly logical to come to the conclusion that you are a Christian based off your Christian apologetics. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong.

Again, are you a Christian?


You believe it was "perfectly logical" to come to all of these conclusions:


You're a cafeteria Christian. Most are. A true Christian would find homosexual behavior to be an abomination, per their own holy book. But no, they do intellectual gymnastics to come to the conclusion that everything they like in the Bible counts and everything they dislike doesn't.


I think you're confused.

[Blake]

Quoting Old Testament passages as a way to prove your point only shows your ignorance. If Christians followed OT "Law" they wouldn't be called "Christians" considering there is no "Christ" in the OT.

I found the answer via teh google.

Turns out you're wrong, fwiw.

[Woo Bum-kon]

You believe it was "perfectly logical" to come to all of these conclusions:




I think you're confused.

Step back for a minute.

Third time asking: are you a Christian?

[jag]

I found the answer via teh google.

Turns out you're wrong, fwiw.

It's possible. Which part? Was Jesus alive in the OT?

[jag]

Step back for a minute.

Third time asking: are you a Christian?

I've answered this before. And what business is it of yours what I do or do not believe?

[ambchang]

Nice question dodge, ambchang. I am not reading the entire Bible. Please, explain to me how slavery can be okay.



And how am I brainwashed? All that shit is actually in the Bible, and I could have used the Skeptic's Annotated Bible to make my point, but chose not to.

You didn't address the points I made, by the way.

And :lmao at you equating extreme atheists to extreme theists, then acknowledging how stupid your point was.

You are talking about slavery as those practiced in the 15th century of abuses, but the Bible talks about slavery as a form of servitude. Yes, people were owned for a specific number of years, but they were also guaranteed their basic human rights. Some of them were to be set free after a number of years, be provided with wages and basics of living. Almost like a contract that you are bound to. It does not allow slaves to be beaten, neglected and abused.

I am not exactly sure where I acknowledged my own point being stupid. Perhaps you can explain it.

And seriously, what is your motive? Will you be converted when your arguments have been quashed? Will you expect others to convert when you won with your arguments? Are you here to show how intellectually superior you are by picking out inconsistencies where you felt exists in a Bible without even reading the whole thing?

If you want to critic something, study it, you are supposed to know the entire context, instead of taking a few sentences out of context discovered by other people, regurgitate it, and act like you are smarter than everyone.

Also, perhaps you can look up the actions of "Vetenskap & Folkbildning" and try to justify them.

[Suspect]

why dont you just answer yes or no, got damn

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

So I am assuming that you are taking the values and "rules" of Christianity based on observations of a select few individuals, or those reported by the media? Is that true? If so, you are arguing against the actions of a few people who may or may not represent a religion, rather than that of the religion itself.

Lumping the actions of a few self-proclaimed Christians who bomb abortion clinics, are pedophiles, or discriminate against others due their race or sexual orientation with a general population as a whole is akin to saying a few to saying that all atheists are mass murderers by taking the actions of a few atheist mass murderers as examples. The only difference is that the Christian group uses religion as an excuse to do these things that are directly contradictory to the central principles of their religious beliefs.

The majority of Christians in this country oppose same sex marriage, it's by no stretch of the imagination some small group of Christian extremists who oppose it (if that were the case, we wouldn't have had a Democratic president in the 1990's who signed DOMA as a means of pandering).

38% of this country also denies climate change, which is another thing I blame on Christianity.

[Woo Bum-kon]

You are talking about slavery as those practiced in the 15th century of abuses, but the Bible talks about slavery as a form of servitude. Yes, people were owned for a specific number of years, but they were also guaranteed their basic human rights. Some of them were to be set free after a number of years, be provided with wages and basics of living. Almost like a contract that you are bound to. It does not allow slaves to be beaten, neglected and abused.

Do any of you Christians read the content of your holy book?

When a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod so hard that the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished. If, however, the slave survives for a day or two, he is not to be punished, since the slave is his own property. (Exodus 21:20-21 NAB)

So, add ambchang to the long list of Christians who have no idea what they are talking about.


I am not exactly sure where I acknowledged my own point being stupid. Perhaps you can explain it.

That wasn't in response to you, obviously.


And seriously, what is your motive? Will you be converted when your arguments have been quashed?

:lmao Never happening.


Will you expect others to convert when you won with your arguments?

Probably not.


Are you here to show how intellectually superior you are by picking out inconsistencies where you felt exists in a Bible without even reading the whole thing?

:lol acting like there's a fault on my end. The Bible is full of inconsistencies. It's also full of God being an asshole.


If you want to critic something, study it, you are supposed to know the entire context, instead of taking a few sentences out of context discovered by other people, regurgitate it, and act like you are smarter than everyone.

:lol trying to rationalize murder and slavery.

There is no context in which keeping slaves is okay. There is no context in which killing an unruly child is okay. There is no context where forcing a woman to marry her rapist is okay. Period. I'm not going to read the entire Bible, then delude myself into thinking it isn't full of inconsistencies and bad teachings.


Also, perhaps you can look up the actions of "Vetenskap & Folkbildning" and try to justify them.

I don't work for them and I have never heard of them, so why would I feel the need to justify their actions?

[ambchang]

The majority of Christians in this country oppose same sex marriage, it's by no stretch of the imagination some small group of Christian extremists who oppose it (if that were the case, we wouldn't have had a Democratic president in the 1990's who signed DOMA as a means of pandering).

38% of this country also denies climate change, which is another thing I blame on Christianity.

Not exactly sure how the climate change issues can be tied to Christianity, but that is another matter.

As for the opposition to same-sex marriage, what is wrong with that? If you have issues with it due to the tax issue, it is the matter of the government setting the tax laws. I doubt Christians go into the same sex marriage issue thinking that they want to financially penalize same sex couples through taxes rather than their own views on the meaning of marriage itself. In fact, you are saying the government is evil for applying different tax rules to different groups of people. Why would married couple even have a tax break vs. unmarried couples?

Christianity in itself is against same sex marriage, it is also against lying, hatred and greed. But I have never heard of any Christian based laws financially penalizing people who bear false witness. How people and governments use and interpret those basic principles to set laws is the matter of those individuals and governments, and not of those of the religion.

[Clipper Nation]

:lol Methlahoma
:lol Westboro Church showing up to their games
:lol Inbred fanbase
:lol Black people not allowed in their arena

[NASpurs]

And :lmao at you equating extreme atheists to extreme theists, then acknowledging how stupid your point was.

:lol Jesus Christ, you like to hear yourself talk and probably jerk off to your own posts. Fucking pathetic human being.

And my point was how typical the hive mentality is with your kind that you can see your response from a mile away.

[NASpurs]

You didn't address the points I made, by the way.


And what's the point? You've been here years with this same schtick of going into religion threads and contradicting the hell out of everyone who counterpoints you. We've done this dance before and I'm not going to get sucked into it again.

[ambchang]

Do any of you Christians read the content of your holy book?

When a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod so hard that the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished. If, however, the slave survives for a day or two, he is not to be punished, since the slave is his own property. (Exodus 21:20-21 NAB)

So, add ambchang to the long list of Christians who have no idea what they are talking about.

I would be the first to say that I do not entirely understand Christianity, and I am not exactly sure how that is an issue, because I doubt there is one single person who understands the entire context of their beliefs, theist or not.

However, to address your point, this passage was part of a larger passage of how to treat murder and manslaughter. It is a rule used to discourage/stop people from beating their slaves, and there are many other passages that talks about the rights of a slave. There are passages immediately after the one you quoted of talking about freeing a slave after abuses, as slaves were taken back then either through capturing from war (would have been dead otherwise) or through payment of debt (no laws governing their treatment prior to these passages, leading to abuses.



That wasn't in response to you, obviously.

:lmao Never happening.

So you are saying that even if you are logically proven to be wrong, you would not convert? So what's your point of quoting all those logic that you had earlier on?


Probably not.

Again, what is your point/purpose/motivation?



:lol acting like there's a fault on my end. The Bible is full of inconsistencies. It's also full of God being an asshole.

How would you know? Have you read the entire thing, or did you just spend a lot of time reading on one side of the fence?
And no, never said it was your fault, just pointing out your logical fallacies.


:lol trying to rationalize murder and slavery.

There is no context in which keeping slaves is okay. There is no context in which killing an unruly child is okay. There is no context where forcing a woman to marry her rapist is okay. Period. I'm not going to read the entire Bible, then delude myself into thinking it isn't full of inconsistencies and bad teachings.

I don't work for them and I have never heard of them, so why would I feel the need to justify their actions?

So you have already made up your mind that reading a few sentences out of a rather thick book is enough to understand those few sentences, and that you are actively criticizing a subject you have very little knowledge on. I suppose there is no point in arguing then, as you clearly do not have any indication of listening to arguments that do not align with your built in biases and ignorance of the subject.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

Not exactly sure how the climate change issues can be tied to Christianity, but that is another matter.
I didn't quite understand why evangelicals were in such a stubborn state of denial climate change until recently, but iirc it has something to do with Noah's Ark. I think.


As for the opposition to same-sex marriage, what is wrong with that? If you have issues with it due to the tax issue, it is the matter of the government setting the tax laws. I doubt Christians go into the same sex marriage issue thinking that they want to financially penalize same sex couples through taxes rather than their own views on the meaning of marriage itself. In fact, you are saying the government is evil for applying different tax rules to different groups of people. Why would married couple even have a tax break vs. unmarried couples?
The way you're pretending that the government's laws are completely splintered/can't be blamed on Christian values is intellectually dishonest. If Christians simply opposed gay marriage at the Church level and not at the state level, I wouldn't care. No one is saying Churches have to start respecting same sex marriage. When the majority of Christians say they think gay marriage shouldn't be legal, they're inherently saying gay couples should receive unfair tax treatment as that's a byproduct of gay marriage being illegal. Whether it's actually something they want or it's simply ignorance of the tax code (which is inexcusable since you should be well educated on the advantages/disadvantages to marriage if you have a strong opinion as to how it should be defined), gay couples currently pay up to 60% more in taxes than straight couples.

As for why married couples should have a tax break vs. unmarried couples, it's a different issue but something I agree 100% with Christians on. This country has an abundance of kids raised in unstable single parent homes when there's tons of evidence that makes it clear kids receive the best upbringing when his/her parents are married. Getting married and having a stable family is behavior that should be encouraged.


Christianity in itself is against same sex marriage, it is also against lying, hatred and greed. But I have never heard of any Christian based laws financially penalizing people who bear false witness. How people and governments use and interpret those basic principles to set laws is the matter of those individuals and governments, and not of those of the religion.
Again, if religion was completely splintered from the government and it's laws, I wouldn't give a shit.

[Woo Bum-kon]

And what's the point? You've been here years with this same schtick of going into religion threads and contradicting the hell out of everyone who counterpoints you. We've done this dance before and I'm not going to get sucked into it again.

Maybe if all your arguments weren't terrible, the discussion would take a different turn.

:lol at hive mentality. Oh, the irony.

[AaronY]

God bless these great brave Heroes. More people should have the courage to stand up for The Lord

[NASpurs]

Maybe if all your arguments weren't terrible, the discussion would take a different turn.

:lol at hive mentality. Oh, the irony.

:lol discussion

You don't discuss. All you do is belittle and condescend. And you're so hellbent at your agenda that "discussion" is not possible with you.

[baseline bum]

FUCK YEAH!! That's what 'm talkin' bout, how it should be! 'Murica, freedom ain't free, hefty fee, not a dry eye, Jason Witten no helmet, catching a pass with :10 sec left against the hated Redskins in the SuperBowl, 70 yards to go, looking bleak, 3 guys piling on, looking like he's down, musters up enough courage to keep going while pulling the american flag out of his pocket, dragging 3 'skeens into the 'zone, clock expiring as he stretches the pigskin/american flag over the goalline where his son and wife are waiting for him, Boys win, Witten rushed by all the veterans in the stadium, hoisting the 'bardi trophy in one hand, son in the other, carried off the field to 'bama's private jet etc

:lmao :lmao :lmao

[ElNono]

FUCK YEAH!! That's what 'm talkin' bout, how it should be! 'Murica, freedom ain't free, hefty fee, not a dry eye, Jason Witten no helmet, catching a pass with :10 sec left against the hated Redskins in the SuperBowl, 70 yards to go, looking bleak, 3 guys piling on, looking like he's down, musters up enough courage to keep going while pulling the american flag out of his pocket, dragging 3 'skeens into the 'zone, clock expiring as he stretches the pigskin/american flag over the goalline where his son and wife are waiting for him, Boys win, Witten rushed by all the veterans in the stadium, hoisting the 'bardi trophy in one hand, son in the other, carried off the field to 'bama's private jet etc

crofl :lol

[Blake]

It's possible. Which part? Was Jesus alive in the OT?


John 8

56*Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.
57*Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?
58*Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
59 Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.

I think this implies that he is saying that he was "I am".

If he wasn't, then what exactly is Jesus? A man or God?

[Blake]

I would be the first to say that I do not entirely understand Christianity, and I am not exactly sure how that is an issue, because I doubt there is one single person who understands the entire context of their beliefs, theist or not.

In what context is it ok to kill homosexuals?

[Blake]

:lol Jesus Christ, you like to hear yourself talk and probably jerk off to your own posts. Fucking pathetic human being.

And my point was how typical the hive mentality is with your kind that you can see your response from a mile away.

You seem upset. Why?

[Blake]

:lol Jesus Christ, you like to hear yourself talk and probably jerk off to your own posts. Fucking pathetic human being.

And my point was how typical the hive mentality is with your kind that you can see your response from a mile away.

You seem upset. Why?

[NASpurs]

You seem upset. Why?

I get annoyed easily. :lol

[NASpurs]

And why is it that every time you reply to me you double post? It happened in the other thread as well a couple of times.

[DemonLuv]

Bring it on WBC!

[ambchang]

I didn't quite understand why evangelicals were in such a stubborn state of denial climate change until recently, but iirc it has something to do with Noah's Ark. I think.

I find that bizarre. If anything, I find people in the energy and mining sector being more in denial of climate change. Not exactly sure how Noah's arc can lead to climate change denial.


The way you're pretending that the government's laws are completely splintered/can't be blamed on Christian values is intellectually dishonest. If Christians simply opposed gay marriage at the Church level and not at the state level, I wouldn't care. No one is saying Churches have to start respecting same sex marriage. When the majority of Christians say they think gay marriage shouldn't be legal, they're inherently saying gay couples should receive unfair tax treatment as that's a byproduct of gay marriage being illegal. Whether it's actually something they want or it's simply ignorance of the tax code (which is inexcusable since you should be well educated on the advantages/disadvantages to marriage if you have a strong opinion as to how it should be defined), gay couples currently pay up to 60% more in taxes than straight couples.

As for why married couples should have a tax break vs. unmarried couples, it's a different issue but something I agree 100% with Christians on. This country has an abundance of kids raised in unstable single parent homes when there's tons of evidence that makes it clear kids receive the best upbringing when his/her parents are married. Getting married and having a stable family is behavior that should be encouraged.


Again, if religion was completely splintered from the government and it's laws, I wouldn't give a shit.

I am fine with that view, but this has more to do with the politics of religion rather than the religious views itself, which was not what I read earlier on in your posts.

People should have the rights to be married/not married protected as much as the next right, whether that ultimately leads to a burden to society is another point. I find it quite hypocritical of you to condone taxing on singles while oppose so for another group of minorities.

Christians opposing marriage to same-sex couples resulting in the 60% tax difference is not the same as saying Christians think same sex couples should be taxed 60% more than other married couples.

[Blake]

And why is it that every time you reply to me you double post? It happened in the other thread as well a couple of times.

Dunno. It must be tmobile or my galaxy wreaking havoc.

Too lazy to edit to say "double post"

[ambchang]

In what context is it ok to kill homosexuals?

Could you quote the passage? I am assuming you are talking about Leviticus 18, but have to be sure to respond correctly.

[Cane]

How much money do the WBC lawyers make anyway just to trollol around?

[td4mvp2k]

I'm a Christian, and I am ashamed of people like this. They are not true to the word of God, they think they represent God\Christ but they are really representing the other guy. I am not a fan of homosexuality, but to take time to protest gays and all this stuff is not the way of a good person\Christian.

u n ur peeps need 2 stfu foo

[Monster1776]

Dunno. It must be tmobile or my galaxy wreaking havoc.

Too lazy to edit to say "double post"

Or it could be you're a dumbshit who has issues trying to work the buttons that are labled in English.

[NASpurs]

Or it could be you're a dumbshit who has issues trying to work the buttons that are labled in English.

Seems accurate. :lol

[Monster1776]

LOL since when is Oklahoma considered the south? When WBC does do their little protest Im sure the WBC members are going in shock of many Okies who walk over and join their little protest. Shit will probably boggle their homo hating minds.

Since Texas became Northern Mexico and y'all lost the Mexican-American War 200 years after the fact. Nearly 10 percent of your economy is carried out by Illegals and Mexicans are only two percent away from becoming the major ethnic group in Texas lmfao.

[Woo Bum-kon]

I would be the first to say that I do not entirely understand Christianity, and I am not exactly sure how that is an issue, because I doubt there is one single person who understands the entire context of their beliefs, theist or not.

However, to address your point, this passage was part of a larger passage of how to treat murder and manslaughter. It is a rule used to discourage/stop people from beating their slaves, and there are many other passages that talks about the rights of a slave. There are passages immediately after the one you quoted of talking about freeing a slave after abuses, as slaves were taken back then either through capturing from war (would have been dead otherwise) or through payment of debt (no laws governing their treatment prior to these passages, leading to abuses.

You type way too much.

First of all, you claimed that the Bible prohibited the beating of slaves. You were extremely wrong. Not only could slaves be beaten, they could be beaten to death, because they are their owner's property. And you're trying to rationalize that.


So you are saying that even if you are logically proven to be wrong, you would not convert? So what's your point of quoting all those logic that you had earlier on?

No, I am saying that I won't be logically proven wrong. The theist's position is inherently illogical. If, by some miracle, I did make a mistake and was proven wrong, I'll own up to it.


How would you know? Have you read the entire thing, or did you just spend a lot of time reading on one side of the fence?

I know because there are passages that are in direct contradiction to other passages.


And no, never said it was your fault, just pointing out your logical fallacies.

You don't know what that phrase means.


So you have already made up your mind that reading a few sentences out of a rather thick book is enough to understand those few sentences, and that you are actively criticizing a subject you have very little knowledge on.

:lol still trying to rationalize murder
:lol still accusing me of being ignorant when I already showed myself to be more knowledgeable than you when it comes to slavery in the Bible


I suppose there is no point in arguing then, as you clearly do not have any indication of listening to arguments that do not align with your built in biases and ignorance of the subject.

:lol I was raised a theist. I am probably more objective than any of you theists here who are only Christians because they were raised as such. I'm done giving the Bible the benefit of the doubt.

So far, you haven't presented any argument at all, with all your verbiage. All you have posted has been, "Read the entire thing!" as if I need to read the entire Bible before coming to a conclusion over whether homosexuals should be killed or not.

Do you believe that unruly children should be stoned to death?
Do you believe that homosexuals should be put to death?
Do you believe that rape victims should marry their rapists?
Do you think a person should be able to beat a slave to death so long as the slave doesn't die right away?
Do you believe non-believers should be executed?

All that shit is in the Bible. I don't need to read the entire thin to know that God is an asshole.

[Woo Bum-kon]

:lol discussion

You don't discuss. All you do is belittle and condescend. And you're so hellbent at your agenda that "discussion" is not possible with you.

I do discuss. I ask theist questions and I answer them.

And you deserve belittling, after the stupid shit you have posted so far. You accused me of having a hivemind mentality based off jackshit. And you also accused me of being brainwashed based off jackshit. If you don't trust Evil Bible, look up the passages yourself. Only a brainwashed, hive-mentality theist can look at passages condoning rape and murder and claim that they don't condone rape and murder.

[NASpurs]

I do discuss. I ask theist questions and I answer them.

And you deserve belittling, after the stupid shit you have posted so far. You accused me of having a hivemind mentality based off jackshit. And you also accused me of being brainwashed based off jackshit. If you don't trust Evil Bible, look up the passages yourself. Only a brainwashed, hive-mentality theist can look at passages condoning rape and murder and claim that they don't condone rape and murder.

:lmao Only someone like yourself who's agenda to belittle everything Christianity would waste your fucking weekend nights posting on religious threads like you do as I've witnessed countless times. You're a faggot of the highest order with absolutely no lenience towards anything religious. It's so hilarious how you try to belittle ANY theist. I don't give a shit if they're up to your level intellectual (which comes from your constantly posting evilbible.com or anything fucking website with biased views). You must have a fucking miserable life, seriously bro and yeah I know, I'm attacking you but it's only because your views are hilarious to me. You're a fucking waste of all that intellect. :lol

[Malice]

LOL fucking bible thumping belt, armpit of america...

[Monster1776]

The way you're pretending that the government's laws are completely splintered/can't be blamed on Christian values is intellectually dishonest. If Christians simply opposed gay marriage at the Church level and not at the state level, I wouldn't care. No one is saying Churches have to start respecting same sex marriage. When the majority of Christians say they think gay marriage shouldn't be legal, they're inherently saying gay couples should receive unfair tax treatment as that's a byproduct of gay marriage being illegal. Whether it's actually something they want or it's simply ignorance of the tax code (which is inexcusable since you should be well educated on the advantages/disadvantages to marriage if you have a strong opinion as to how it should be defined), gay couples currently pay up to 60% more in taxes than straight couples.


Pretty sure that's actually how most Christians think, I'd be in that camp; the only hold up is probably because how the politicians do a shit job at wording things and how the media likes to spin it.

[Woo Bum-kon]

:lmao Only someone like yourself who's agenda to belittle everything Christianity would waste your fucking weekend nights posting on religious threads like you do as I've witnessed countless times. You're a faggot of the highest order with absolutely no lenience towards anything religious. It's so hilarious how you try to belittle ANY theist. I don't give a shit if they're up to your level intellectual (which comes from your constantly posting evilbible.com or anything fucking website with biased views). You must have a fucking miserable life, seriously bro and yeah I know, I'm attacking you but it's only because your views are hilarious to me. You're a fucking waste of all that intellect. :lol

:cry

[Monster1776]

LOL fucking bible thumping belt, armpit of america...

I've noticed just as many intolerant asshole atheists as there are intolerant asshole Christians.

[Banzai]

Has Westboro ever been attacked? I can't imagine yelling at them will solve the problem..would it be worth getting arrested after beating the shit out of them?

[NASpurs]

:cry

:lmao I wish I knew how you were in real life, no lie bro. I don't think I've ever met anyone like yourself. You're probably cool but you're just a faggot on the internet for some reason and more towards Christians.

[AaronY]

Welcome to Sodom and Gomorrhah ladies and gentleman.

[Monster1776]

Do you believe that unruly children should be stoned to death?
Do you believe that homosexuals should be put to death?
Do you believe that rape victims should marry their rapists?
Do you think a person should be able to beat a slave to death so long as the slave doesn't die right away?
Do you believe non-believers should be executed?

All that shit is in the Bible. I don't need to read the entire thin to know that God is an asshole.

Luke 22:20 (http://biblia.com/bible/nasb95/Luke%2022.20), "This cup which is poured out for you is the new covenant in My blood."

Heb. 8:13 (http://biblia.com/bible/nasb95/Heb.%208.13) which says, "When He said, 'A new covenant,' He has made the first obsolete. But whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to disappear."

"be at peace with one another," (Mark 9:50 (http://biblia.com/bible/nasb95/Mark%209.50)) and "with all men," (Rom. 12:18 (http://biblia.com/bible/nasb95/Rom.%2012.18))

Rom. 14:19 (http://biblia.com/bible/nasb95/Rom.%2014.19) says, "pursue the things which make for peace and the building up of one another." After all, "God has called us to peace," (1 Cor. 7:15 (http://biblia.com/bible/nasb95/1%20Cor.%207.15))

Instead, we are to avoid them. We are not to be violent to anyone since the old theonomic, covenantal system has been done away with (Heb. 8:13 (http://biblia.com/bible/nasb95/Heb.%208.13)). Instead, we are to be kind to them (2 Tim. 2:24-25 (http://biblia.com/bible/nasb95/2%20Tim.%202.24-25)) and show them love (1 Cor. 16:14 (http://biblia.com/bible/nasb95/1%20Cor.%2016.14); 2 Cor. 5:14 (http://biblia.com/bible/nasb95/2%20Cor.%205.14))

The old testament is included in the bible as an accounting of our history and is meant to give perspective to the actions of Jesus Christ. True Christians follow the teachings of Jesus, that is messages of love and compassion. You cannot comment on a book you have not fully read and thus cannot fully comprehend; when you do you're just as ignorant as the Westboro Church lemmings.

[Monster1776]

:lmao I wish I knew how you were in real life, no lie bro. I don't think I've ever met anyone like yourself. You're probably cool but you're just a faggot on the internet for some reason and more towards Christians.

People enjoy being assholes on the internet. It's the only place where there's no repercussions for their actions so they get to feel slightly important or better at the expense of others to escape the reality of being a very small meaningless cog in a rather large machine.

[NASpurs]

People enjoy being assholes on the internet. It's the only place where there's no repercussions for their actions so they get to feel slightly important or better at the expense of others to escape the reality of being a very small meaningless cog in a rather large machine.

:lol it's fucking sad if you ask me. The internet is a giant megaphone and some are obnoxiously louder than others. They probably don't get enough love in real life and look for it anywhere they can get it. Now they're going to accuse us for being internet psychologists. :cry

[Blake]

Could you quote the passage? I am assuming you are talking about Leviticus 18, but have to be sure to respond correctly.

Leviticus 20:13

[Monster1776]

:lol it's fucking sad if you ask me. The internet is a giant megaphone and some are obnoxiously louder than others. They probably don't get enough love in real life and look for it anywhere they can get it. Now they're going to accuse us for being internet psychologists. :cry

Well I did minor in it and enjoy looking at all the sad cases that can be found everywhere; all it is is a dash of common sense and observatory skills and shit ton of memorizing odd mental disease names. Ignorant combative atheists are a personal favorite of mine.

[Blake]

Or it could be you're a dumbshit who has issues trying to work the buttons that are labled in English.

No because the forum settings generally don't allow double clicking the reply button.

Still waiting for you to explain what you will do when the WBC gets to Oklahoma.

[Monster1776]

No because the forum settings generally don't allow double clicking the reply button.

Still waiting for you to explain what you will do when the WBC gets to Oklahoma.

Probably just try to prevent them from doing anything in the city limits; we're not exactly a violent community.

[mindcrime]

So Christians think one guy sticking his d*ck inside another guys ass is an abomination?
Well, gotta side with the Christians on this one, tbh.

[NASpurs]

Well I did minor in it and enjoy looking at all the sad cases that can be found everywhere; all it is is a dash of common sense and observatory skills and shit ton of memorizing odd mental disease names. Ignorant combative atheists are a personal favorite of mine.

:lol Ignorant combative atheists, that's pretty good. Seems like we have more than a few of those if you ever want to study them. Just stay away from reddit.com and /r/atheism... that place is their breeding ground. You know what? Check it out if you haven't. You'll have a nice laugh and wonder about some people

[Monster1776]

So Christians think one guy sticking his d*ck inside another guys ass is an abomination?
Well, gotta side with the Christians on this one, tbh.

Most laws in the old testament were largely common sense things for the protection of the health of people. Shellfish and Pork carried all sorts of shit especially without refrigeration and proper cooking. Homosexuality was probably seen as a rather good way to spread disease by sticking your dick into a hole where literal shit is, so it would probably be in the best interest of the community to cut down on that. So on and so forth.

[Blake]

Probably just try to prevent them from doing anything in the city limits; we're not exactly a violent community.

Nah, even if they enter city limits, you won't do anything about it.

[Monster1776]

:lol Ignorant combative atheists, that's pretty good. Seems like we have more than a few of those if you ever want to study them. Just stay away from reddit.com and /r/atheism... that place is their breeding ground. You know what? Check it out if you haven't. You'll have a nice laugh and wonder about some people

I'm actually in a couple of atheist clubs in real life, (who are trying to convert me lol) and a couple of communities online. For the most part they are all really intelligent with rather impressive degrees and jobs and such; it's the ones on the lower end of the stick I find amusing.

[mindcrime]

Most laws in the old testament were largely common sense things for the protection of the health of people. Shellfish and Pork carried all sorts of shit especially without refrigeration and proper cooking. Homosexuality was probably seen as a rather good way to spread disease by sticking your dick into a hole where literal shit is, so it would probably be in the best interest of the community to cut down on that. So on and so forth.

This

[Monster1776]

Nah, even if they enter city limits, you won't do anything about it.

We probably would, believe it or not Oklahoma is a rather religious state and just about everyone who practices Christianity sees WBC as an abomination.

[Blake]

Most laws in the old testament were largely common sense things for the protection of the health of people. Shellfish and Pork carried all sorts of shit especially without refrigeration and proper cooking. Homosexuality was probably seen as a rather good way to spread disease by sticking your dick into a hole where literal shit is, so it would probably be in the best interest of the community to cut down on that. So on and so forth.

At what point in the New Testament did society no longer need protection from homosexuals?

[Blake]

We probably would, believe it or not Oklahoma is a rather religious state and just about everyone who practices Christianity sees WBC as an abomination.

Cool. What exactly will you good Christians do about them when they arrive?

[Monster1776]

At what point in the New Testament did society no longer need protection from homosexuals?

It was still frowned against, Jesus just said maybe we should probably stop beating people to death with stones to enforce it.

[log in/log out goods]

Well I did minor in it

Yes, I'd like fries with that.

[Blake]

I'm actually in a couple of atheist clubs in real life, (who are trying to convert me lol) and a couple of communities online. For the most part they are all really intelligent with rather impressive degrees and jobs and such; it's the ones on the lower end of the stick I find amusing.

that's funny because I find the Christians that want to disavow the Old Testament hilarious.

[Blake]

It was still frowned against, Jesus just said maybe we should probably stop beating people to death with stones to enforce it.

Why stop killing them if they pose such a hazard?

Why kill them in the first place if they really aren't much of a hazard?

[Monster1776]

that's funny because I find the Christians that want to disavow the Old Testament hilarious.

Christians don't disavow the Old Testament, we acknowledge it's our history. We just don't practice it's teachings because it was instructed by Jesus Christ; his teachings being the basis of Christianity. (It's in the name)

Yes, I'd like fries with that.

I just took the psychology classes for fun, no way in hell I'd try to make a career out of it.

[Monster1776]

Cool. What exactly will you good Christians do about them when they arrive?

Probably either have the city or police prevent them from picketing in OKC or just have people picket their picket.

[Homeland Security]

Not exactly sure how the climate change issues can be tied to Christianity, but that is another matter.

Denial of climate change is tied to the general evangelical denial of mainstream science. They believe scientists are part of a nefarious agenda to destroy belief in God anyway, so believing that scientists are part of a nefarious agenda to bring about Global Communism with prevention of climate change as its pretext is not a stretch.

[Monster1776]

Denial of climate change is tied to the general evangelical denial of mainstream science. They believe scientists are part of a nefarious agenda to destroy belief in God anyway, so believing that scientists are part of a nefarious agenda to bring about Global Communism with prevention of climate change as its pretext is not a stretch.

Most global warming scientists agree that they were initially wrong with their hypothesis. Don't have the facts in front of me but pretty sure this is accurate.

[mindcrime]

Most global warming scientists agree that they were initially wrong with their hypothesis. Don't have the facts in front of me but pretty sure this is accurate.

Precisely why they had to change the name from 'Global Warming' to 'Climate Change'.

[NASpurs]

Christians don't disavow the Old Testament, we acknowledge it's our history. We just don't practice it's teachings because it was instructed by Jesus Christ; his teachings being the basis of Christianity. (It's in the name)

To some of the dudes on this board, Christians = Old Testament Jews no matter how much you tell them those laws are nulled by Christ. :lol

So when are you going to sacrifice your next goat bro? I think I'm past due.

[Monster1776]

To some of the dudes on this board, Christians = Old Testament Jews no matter how much you tell them those laws are nulled by Christ. :lol

So when are you going to sacrifice your next goat bro? I think I'm past due.

I thought Satanists sacrifice goats and Jews sacrifice sheep o.o

[Splits]

Most global warming scientists agree that they were initially wrong with their hypothesis. Don't have the facts in front of me but pretty sure this is accurate.

Yeah, they agree they were wrong by being too conservative in their estimates. Scientific consensus is that the earth is warming even faster than they predicted and is directly tied to carbon emissions.

Do you believe that climate change / global warming is a hoax? Or as your "esteemed" Senator put it, "the second-largest hoax ever played on the American people, after the separation of church and state."?

Do you believe the earth is 6000 years old as well?

[NASpurs]

I thought Satanists sacrifice goats and Jews sacrifice sheep o.o

Really? That's interesting. As far as I know, a high priest in Leviticus had two goats, one killed as a sin offering while the other was let go into the wilderness as a removal of sin.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

Don't have the facts in front of me
Most climate change deniers don't.

[Homeland Security]

Most global warming scientists agree that they were initially wrong with their hypothesis. Don't have the facts in front of me but pretty sure this is accurate.
Cool story, bro.

[ambchang]

You type way too much.

First of all, you claimed that the Bible prohibited the beating of slaves. You were extremely wrong. Not only could slaves be beaten, they could be beaten to death, because they are their owner's property. And you're trying to rationalize that.

I am afraid you are misinterpreting the word "punish". Again, if you read the passage in it's context, you would understand that "punishment" clearly refers to death as in other murderers, or banishment. The slaves were held in a different light for sure, but the consequence is that the debt be absolved, and the slave set free under beatings with consequences.

And I thought the passage you quoted explicitly said that if a slave was beaten to death, the owner would be punished (dealt with in the ways of a murderer.

It does not mean that the owner will face no consequence.



No, I am saying that I won't be logically proven wrong. The theist's position is inherently illogical. If, by some miracle, I did make a mistake and was proven wrong, I'll own up to it.

A theist's position is inherently illogical because of why? You seemed to be entrenched in the idea that you are somehow more logical than a huge number of people who have accepted Christianity or other religions as their beliefs, and that any views other than atheism is illogical, when atheism itself has scores of unanswered questions.



I know because there are passages that are in direct contradiction to other passages.

I have shown two that are misinterpreted because it was taken out of context. There are scores others that fall under this category. And to think that, a religion that has been around for 2000 years, including one that has been studied extensively by scholars for the last 5 or 6 hundred years, have contradictions that has not been noticed and debated to death is quite a bold position for you to take.


You don't know what that phrase means.

Thank you for telling me what I know and what I don't know. I know you have been doing that quite well throughout this thread.



:lol still trying to rationalize murder
:lol still accusing me of being ignorant when I already showed myself to be more knowledgeable than you when it comes to slavery in the Bible

How so? You have clearly misinterpreted that passage.



:lol I was raised a theist. I am probably more objective than any of you theists here who are only Christians because they were raised as such. I'm done giving the Bible the benefit of the doubt.

And I was raised an atheist, so? And somehow assuming that you are more objective than people you have never met is neither objective nor logical.


So far, you haven't presented any argument at all, with all your verbiage. All you have posted has been, "Read the entire thing!" as if I need to read the entire Bible before coming to a conclusion over whether homosexuals should be killed or not.

If you are referring to Leviticus 18:22, read the entire passage.


Do you believe that unruly children should be stoned to death?
Do you believe that homosexuals should be put to death?
Do you believe that rape victims should marry their rapists?
Do you think a person should be able to beat a slave to death so long as the slave doesn't die right away?
Do you believe non-believers should be executed?

All that shit is in the Bible. I don't need to read the entire thin to know that God is an asshole.

No it's not. Please, you have taken quite a strong position in quotes that are out of context. When I say out of context, I am not saying that under certain circumstances, some actions are allowed. I am saying that the phrase is taken out of context of what the entire passage actually means.

The slavery example is one. Leviticus 18:22 is another. The information is readily available on the internet, and given your strong view points in the subject and your ability to look up other people's arguments that have been circulating for centuries, I trust that you also have the ability to look up the contradicting view points.

I know I am not going to convince you one way or another because you have said so explicitly, so I will not try.

However, I will agree with you that there are many Christians who do not understand the Bible, and fall into the same trap that many atheists did of trying to explain away/ignore passages that are inconvenient instead of reading the entire book to understanding the context and what the Bible is trying to convey. And those people are as damaging to Christianity as those of atheists. Sadly, I felt that most, if not almost all Christians fall into that category.

[ambchang]

Leviticus 20:13

I am not a Bible scholar by any stretch of imagination, but if you read the entire Leviticus, it is clear that this passage speaks directly to the practice of local Pagan rituals, and not of the act itself. It also talks extensively about other forms of acts that are "deserving" of death. The death is not for the actions itself, but a direct reflection to the holiness of God. The punishment is a direct reflection of the seriousness of the crimes of turning your back to God.

[Reck]

Well that didn't take long.

You ought to have the right to shoot these picket fences nutcases activists right in the head.

[ambchang]

Denial of climate change is tied to the general evangelical denial of mainstream science. They believe scientists are part of a nefarious agenda to destroy belief in God anyway, so believing that scientists are part of a nefarious agenda to bring about Global Communism with prevention of climate change as its pretext is not a stretch.

Really the first time I have ever heard of this, pretty extreme if you ask me.

In fact, the Pope has acknowledged climate change as an issue.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

Well that didn't take long.

You ought to have the right to shoot these picket fences nutcases activists right in the head.

No, they have 1st amendment rights just like we do. If insecure mainstream Christians didn't get so hot and bothered by the Westboro Baptists and just ignored them, they'd run out of money and wouldn't be able to travel around the country to start shit up.

[Monster1776]

Yeah, they agree they were wrong by being too conservative in their estimates. Scientific consensus is that the earth is warming even faster than they predicted and is directly tied to carbon emissions.

Do you believe that climate change / global warming is a hoax? Or as your "esteemed" Senator put it, "the second-largest hoax ever played on the American people, after the separation of church and state."?

Do you believe the earth is 6000 years old as well?

I believe that we are in our infancy as a species and have yet to even barely grasp the complexities of our world and in extension our universe. I also believe that the facts that we have currently gathered with our scientific understanding points to the world being much older but I also believe that it doesn't necessarily discount the Christian religion nor the existence of intelligent design.

[Homeland Security]

Really the first time I have ever heard of this, pretty extreme if you ask me.

In fact, the Pope has acknowledged climate change as an issue.
Because if there's one person U.S. evangelicals take their marching orders from, it obviously would have to be the Pope.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

Really the first time I have ever heard of this, pretty extreme if you ask me.

In fact, the Pope has acknowledged climate change as an issue.
Here's a recent quote from tea party congressman, Joe Barton:

“I would point out that if you’re a believer in in the Bible, one would have to say the Great Flood is an example of climate change and that certainly wasn’t because mankind had overdeveloped hydrocarbon energy.”

[Monster1776]

Because if there's one person U.S. evangelicals take their marching orders from, it obviously would have to be the Pope.

Oh man... That got a good laugh from me lol...

[xellos88330]

"Do not have sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman; that is detestable." (Lev 18:22 NIV)
"If a man has sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They are to be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads." (Lev 20:13 NIV)

No, their views seem pretty consistent with the word of God.

Well then why do they hate lesbians? I see nothing in those passages that says anything about gay women. Also, what if the guy never fucks the woman in the ass, but will only fuck a man in the ass. He isn't fucking the dude the same way as the woman therefore according to that passage, he hasn't done anything wrong.

This is the problem with religious extremists. If they are going to defend their douchebaggery by using literal text, they need to make sure there is no way to spin it as I just did.

[Monster1776]

Most climate change deniers don't.

I don't keep a list of facts in regards to Climate Change on my person in the off chance a discussion delves into it.

http://wattsupwiththat.com/2010/01/23/breaking-news-scientist-admits-ipcc-used-fake-data-to-pressure-policy-makers/

[Monster1776]

Well then why do they hate lesbians? I see nothing in those passages that says anything about gay women. Also, what if the guy never fucks the woman in the ass, but will only fuck a man in the ass. He isn't fucking the dude the same way as the woman therefore according to that passage, he hasn't done anything wrong.

This is the problem with religious extremists. If they are going to defend their douchebaggery by using literal text, they need to make sure there is no way to spin it as I just did.

When you say religious extremists, are you including atheism as well?

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

I don't keep a list of facts in regards to Climate Change on my person in the off chance a discussion delves into it.

http://wattsupwiththat.com/2010/01/23/breaking-news-scientist-admits-ipcc-used-fake-data-to-pressure-policy-makers/
Your usage of that site is a hilarious example of confirmation bias.

[xellos88330]

When you say religious extremists, are you including atheism as well?

Let me rephrase it to belief extremists.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

I like how it calls itself "The world's most viewed site on global warming and climate change"

I'm gonna go out on a limb and say it's nowhere near the world's most viewed site on global warming and climate change.

Christians love coming up with terms and labels that make their groups sound a lot more popular and credible than they actually are, for example the Christian group that only has a few thousand followers on twitter but calls itself "One Million Moms".

[rjv]

but according to avante only islamists act like this

[Monster1776]

Your usage of that site is a hilarious example of confirmation bias.
Then,
http://science.slashdot.org/story/10/07/05/2030200/dutch-agency-admits-mistakes-in-un-climate-report

I just vaguely remembered some scientific organizations skewing their numbers so that they would receive more funding which is often a serious problem in the scientific community. So I just googled it and listed a site that seemed to have the a link to the news story. If you want to have a serious discussion about the validity of the originally proposed model of climate change then let me eat and take care of some shit and I'll get back to you with a list of facts and arguments from both sides of the dilemma.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

Then,
http://science.slashdot.org/story/10/07/05/2030200/dutch-agency-admits-mistakes-in-un-climate-report

I just vaguely remembered some scientific organizations skewing their numbers so that they would receive more funding which is often a serious problem in the scientific community. So I just googled it and listed a site that seemed to have the a link to the news story. If you want to have a serious discussion about the validity of the originally proposed model of climate change then let me eat and take care of some shit and I'll get back to you with a list of facts and arguments from both sides of the dilemma.
Nothing says serious discussion like a site that has an outright lie on its front page about being "The world's most viewed site on global warming and climate change"

[Monster1776]

Let me rephrase it to belief extremists.

I feel like religion still fits but that's just a bit of philosophical word play.

[Monster1776]

Nothing says serious discussion like a site that has an outright lie on its front page about being "The world's most viewed site on global warming and climate change"

If you're just going to nitpick bits and pieces of a post then what's the point?

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

If you're just going to nitpick bits and pieces of a post then what's the point?

It's not a bit and piece. A site's cover page being an outright lie to deceive people into thinking it's a credible source demonstrates how much of a joke climate change deniers are.

[Blake]

I believe that we are in our infancy as a species and have yet to even barely grasp the complexities of our world and in extension our universe. I also believe that the facts that we have currently gathered with our scientific understanding points to the world being much older but I also believe that it doesn't necessarily discount the Christian religion nor the existence of intelligent design.

Simple philosophic logic discounts the Christian religion

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

I also find it hilarious that someone using a few scientists who changed numbers around to get funding as proof that global climate change (a theory believed by thousands of scientists) is a hoax is accusing someone else of nitpicking.

[Monster1776]

Simple philosophic logic discounts the Christian religion

In what way? Speaking something doesn't give it grounds to be true.

[xellos88330]

I feel like religion still fits but that's just a bit of philosophical word play.

That is exactly what I mean. Written words are garbage. They can mean so many different things and really all it boils down to is the philosophy of the reader. My viewpoint is it makes people look like douchebags when they take it to the extreme. Meanwhile, I look like a douchebag to them. There will never be any similar ground because then what is the point of having a philosophy to begin with? Would it even exist if everyone thought the same thing, or followed the same exact path? IMO part of human discovery and enlightenment isn't through books or history, but imagination and the future.

[Monster1776]

I also find it hilarious that someone using a few scientists who changed numbers around to get funding as proof that global climate change (a theory believed by thousands of scientists) is a hoax is accusing someone else of nitpicking.

When exactly did I claim that Climate Change is a hoax?

[Monster1776]

That is exactly what I mean. Written words are garbage. They can mean so many different things and really all it boils down to is the philosophy of the reader. My viewpoint is it makes people look like douchebags when they take it to the extreme. Meanwhile, I look like a douchebag to them. There will never be any similar ground because then what is the point of having a philosophy to begin with? Would it even exist if everyone thought the same thing, or followed the same exact path? IMO part of human discovery and enlightenment isn't through books or history, but imagination and the future.

Completely agree.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

When exactly did I claim that Climate Change is a hoax?

You gave that impression by linking a bullshit site centered around the belief it's a hoax.

What are your views on climate change?

[Blake]

I am not a Bible scholar by any stretch of imagination, but if you read the entire Leviticus, it is clear that this passage speaks directly to the practice of local Pagan rituals, and not of the act itself. It also talks extensively about other forms of acts that are "deserving" of death. The death is not for the actions itself, but a direct reflection to the holiness of God. The punishment is a direct reflection of the seriousness of the crimes of turning your back to God.

It's pretty clear the death is for the actions themselves.

Just like cutting off a woman's hand for striking a man in the semen maker in defense of her husband is clear

[Monster1776]

You gave that impression by linking a bullshit site centered around the belief it's a hoax.

What are your views on climate change?
As I said it was a quick google.

My view is that Humanity is quite obviously a major factor in the change of global environment and in extension the global climate, but that there is not enough time or scientific understanding to truly understand our actual impact on the world. That being said we are definitely having a negative impact on the world, it's just a question of how fast acting and bad that impact is.

[Blake]

In what way? Speaking something doesn't give it grounds to be true.

where is that lol jpg of God creates us, sends himself to save us, etc...

[Monster1776]

It's pretty clear the death is for the actions themselves.

Just like cutting off a woman's hand for striking a man in the semen maker in defense of her husband is clear

Ancient laws have both practical and philosophical implications. It's difficult to translate laws written in another language a couple thousand years ago effectively. That being said the matter is moot because Christians believe the teachings of Jesus Christ which he himself taught lessons that went against this type of rationale of thought.

[Monster1776]

where is that lol jpg of God creates us, sends himself to save us, etc...

I find it reasonable that we as a species with our spirituality and intelligence originated from an intelligent designer who would send a messenger to lead us on a path of love and compassion away from our self-destructive tendencies.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

As I said it was a quick google.

My view is that Humanity is quite obviously a major factor in the change of global environment and in extension the global climate, but that there is not enough time or scientific understanding to truly understand our actual impact on the world. That being said we are definitely having a negative impact on the world, it's just a question of how fast acting and bad that impact is.
I'd say given how many species on this planet have gone instinct or have been put on the verge of extinction in the last 100 years, I think there's plenty of scientific evidence to say for certain that humans are having a cancerous effect on the planet and in the last century it became a much faster acting cancer.

I don't blame religion for that in its entirety since plenty of secular people have been unconcerned with how much we're destroying this planet, but it's safe to say climate change has already had major negative effects on this planet, like 30% of the world's bee population dying off 2 years ago.

[Monster1776]

I'd say given how many species on this planet have gone instinct or have been put on the verge of extinction in the last 100 years, I think there's plenty of scientific evidence to say for certain that humans are having a cancerous effect on the planet and in the last century it became a much faster acting cancer.

I don't blame religion for that in its entirety since plenty of secular people have been unconcerned with how much we're destroying this planet, but it's safe to say climate change has already had major negative effects on this planet, like 30% of the world's bee population dying off 2 years ago.

Thousands of species have gone extinct before the tampering of humans; although granted we do rather excel at stoking the fires of species destruction. It's a question of whether or not we can even peacefully co-exist with this planet's species and if our true destiny lies in depleting all of this world's resources and moving onto the next.

[Chinook]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2cjRGee5ipM

That's the biggest misconception about global warming. Nature will be fine if this keeps going. We won't be, though. That's why we should care.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

Thousands of species have gone extinct before the tampering of humans; although granted we do rather excel at stoking the fires of species destruction. It's a question of whether or not we can even peacefully co-exist with this planets species and if our true destiny lies in depleting all of this world's resources and moving onto the next.
The technology is there to co-exist with the other species on this planet, for thousands of years it wasn't a problem. Polar bears, whales, seals, etc. didn't start dying off en mass until we started whaling and destroying polar habitats.

I'm also curious what evidence you have that it's our destiny to use up this planet and then move onto a livable planet in spite of the fact we haven't found one yet. We've had the technology for years to live on this planet without destroying it, while we don't have anywhere near the technology to somehow transport 6 billion people to a new planet, yet there's somehow a question between the two.

[Monster1776]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2cjRGee5ipM

That's the biggest misconception about global warming. Nature will be fine if this keeps going. We won't be, though. That's why we should care.

As I said it's rather self evident we're having a negative effect on the environment. It's just a question of how quick and negative that effect is and to what point will it have an adverse effect on humanity.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

As I said it's rather self evident we're having a negative effect on the environment. It's just a question of how quick and negative that effect is and to what point will it have an adverse effect on humanity.
It already has had a negative effect on humanity. You think with all the fish humans eat using oceans as a carbon dumpster hasn't hurt our health?

[Monster1776]

It already has had a negative effect on humanity. You think with all the fish humans eat using oceans as a carbon dumpster hasn't hurt our health?

Let me rephrase, have a negative enough effect on humanity that the general public and government starts to care.

[Chinook]

As I said it's rather self evident we're having a negative effect on the environment. It's just a question of how quick and negative that effect is and to what point will it have an adverse effect on humanity.

I saw what you said. That's what made me look for the quote. I think that's how we need to frame this issue. It's not about the animals; it's about the fact that you personally may die if we keep doing this. Ask an ecologist about how devastating global warming is on species in the grand scheme, and they'll say that it's hardly made a dent. Extinctions are just part of the game; every species drives another to extinction. We need to stop pretending we're above the fray.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

Let me rephrase, have a negative enough effect on humanity that the general public and government starts to care.
Given how little the general public and government care with what's already happened, chances are it'll be too late by the time they do care.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

I saw what you said. That's what made me look for the quote. I think that's how we need to frame this issue. It's not about the animals; it's about the fact that you personally may die if we keep doing this. Ask an ecologist about how devastating global warming is on species in the grand scheme, and they'll say that it's hardly made a dent. Extinctions are just part of the game; every species drives another to extinction. We need to stop pretending we're above the fray.
:lmao:lmao:lmao

I'm curious what ecologists you're talking to who think climate change has hardly made a dent in the polar bear population.

[Monster1776]

Given how little the general public and government care with what's already happened, chances are it'll be too late by the time they do care.

Probably. Makes our infatuation with end of the world movies lately even more ironic.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

Probably. Makes our infatuation with end of the world movies lately even more ironic.
What I find ironic is our infatuation with movies about a species coming here to kill off humans and use the earth's resources when the opposite has an infinitely more likely chance of happening.

[Blake]

I find it reasonable that we as a species with our spirituality and intelligence originated from an intelligent designer who would send a messenger to lead us on a path of love and compassion away from our self-destructive tendencies.

the message is "believe or burn"

Good news for child molesters, tbh.

[Monster1776]

What I find ironic is our infatuation with movies about a species coming here to kill off humans and use the earth's resources when the opposite has an infinitely more likely chance of happening.

Perhaps it's liberal movie directors trying to make a subtle point?

[Monster1776]

the message is "believe or burn"

Good news for child molesters, tbh.

Again saying something doesn't make it true.

[G-Nob]

As far as the WBC is concerned, it's a right to protest whether you agree with it or not. I can protest a piece of dog sh*t in my front yard but ain't nobody got time for that.

I am a Christian and was always told to love thy neighbor. I leave any judging up to God.
For the scientists, explain consciousness. Cannot be done to this day.
For the atheists, explain your reason for walking around this planet freely with air in your lungs. God is love. If you have ever loved or felt love, that is God. You might want to jump on board. (Just in case) :tu

[Slim Charles]

All y'all fools is wrong. The reason religion started is because people had no idea how to explain aliens. THose aliens came down and brought all this superior technology and looked super human to the people that were here. They lived like gods and knocked up bitches left and right. Man looked more like an ape before these aliens started tapping that ass. Then the offspring didn't have as much hair and were smarter than the humans at the time.

Aliens ni66as... aliens.

[YoMamaIsCallin]

You're a cafeteria Christian. Most are. A true Christian would find homosexual behavior to be an abomination, per their own holy book. But no, they do intellectual gymnastics to come to the conclusion that everything they like in the Bible counts and everything they dislike doesn't.

Oh, you mean like how the courts interpret the Constitution?

[Monster1776]

As far as the WBC is concerned, it's a right to protest whether you agree with it or not. I can protest a piece of dog sh*t in my front yard but ain't nobody got time for that.

I am a Christian and was always told to love thy neighbor. I leave any judging up to God.
For the scientists, explain consciousness. Cannot be done to this day.
For the atheists, explain your reason for walking around this planet freely with air in your lungs. God is love. If you have ever loved or felt love, that is God. You might want to jump on board. (Just in case) :tu

I find that believing in God without any justification for your rationale is just as bad as being atheistic; much less a person trying to "hedge their bets".

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

Oh, you mean like how the courts interpret the Constitution?
Good example tbh.

[YoMamaIsCallin]

We've had the technology for years to live on this planet without destroying it, while we don't have anywhere near the technology to somehow transport 6 billion people to a new planet, yet there's somehow a question between the two.

Umm, I got a clue for you. It ain't going to be 6 billion people. It's about the human RACE, not humans.

[Monster1776]

All y'all fools is wrong. The reason religion started is because people had no idea how to explain aliens. THose aliens came down and brought all this superior technology and looked super human to the people that were here. They lived like gods and knocked up bitches left and right. Man looked more like an ape before these aliens started tapping that ass. Then the offspring didn't have as much hair and were smarter than the humans at the time.

Aliens ni66as... aliens.

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lzkjmpxsBV1qhjyb0o1_500.jpg

[ElNono]

I find that believing in God without any justification for your rationale is just as bad as being atheistic; much less a person trying to "hedge their bets".

Outside of religion, wouldn't you say "hedging your bet" is the smart, logical and rational thing to do?

[Monster1776]

Outside of religion, wouldn't you say "hedging your bet" is the smart, logical and rational thing to do?

Depends.

[ElNono]

Depends.

????

[G-Nob]

I find that believing in God without any justification for your rationale is just as bad as being atheistic; much less a person trying to "hedge their bets".

Explain the feeling of loving your kids or relatives? The answers are saved for when we get to heaven. For now, being thankful for the health we have, the peope we love and the world we live in is good enough rationale for me.

[Chinook]

:lmao:lmao:lmao

I'm curious what ecologists you're talking to who think climate change has hardly made a dent in the polar bear population.

Did you miss the words "grand" and "scheme?" We're not talking about individual species here. Species are very sensitive to change, so global warming will devastate some. Bearded dragons are a much better example of a species impacted by the warming, and they're about to go extinct due to interference with their breeding system. Coral is another example.

What I'm saying is that we aren't going to kill all life on this planet by doing what we're doing. Life will go on, and niches will be filled. That's just the way it's worked for the entire history of life on Earth. We have to worry about ourselves a lot more than we have to worry about the rest of the biosphere.

[YoMamaIsCallin]

I find it reasonable that we as a species with our spirituality and intelligence originated from an intelligent designer who would send a messenger to lead us on a path of love and compassion away from our self-destructive tendencies.

Ironically, you may be right, but in a completely different way than you imagine.
see Are You Living In a Computer Simulation? (http://www.simulation-argument.com)

[Chinook]

Ironically, you may be right, but in a completely different way than you imagine.
see Are You Living In a Computer Simulation? (http://www.simulation-argument.com)

Never heard of it, but from the name, that's exactly the type of possibility I've been trying to point out.

[Monster1776]

????

Depends on the system you're operating in, can either minimalize losses and maintain larger profits or can protect against non-existent losses at the cost of larger profits.

[DPG21920]

Al Gore-ish.

[Monster1776]

Ironically, you may be right, but in a completely different way than you imagine.
see Are You Living In a Computer Simulation? (http://www.simulation-argument.com)
I'm familiar with the concept of whether or not the world around us is an illusion. It's merely a mental exercise in my opinion though.

[Monster1776]

Al Gore-ish.

Al Gore is a fucking nut and queer.

[DPG21920]

It's funny, because if someone posted a link from an equivalent website such as "evil bible.com" with regards to global warming, it would be religiously scoffed.

[DPG21920]

Al Gore is a fucking nut and queer.

But, it is an inconvenient truth.

[DPG21920]

What I equate Global Warming to, in my limited knowledge, is more of a moral hazard than actual harm. The best analogy I can think of is stealing. Stealing, regardless of the situation is wrong. But let's say if you steal 10 cents from a millionaire will it really harm them? I think humans have an obvious impact due to our actions, but the actual rate of damage in relation to natural ever-changing landscapes of Earth is probably not as bad as Al Gore makes it out to be.

[Monster1776]

What I equate Global Warming to, in my limited knowledge, is more of a moral hazard than actual harm. The best analogy I can think of is stealing. Stealing, regardless of the situation is wrong. But let's say if you steal 10 cents from a millionaire will it really harm them? I think humans have an obvious impact due to our actions, but the actual rate of damage in relation to natural ever-changing landscapes of Earth is probably not as bad as Al Gore makes it out to be.

As with everything it all boils down to perspective.

[Aztecfan03]

"Do not have sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman; that is detestable." (Lev 18:22 NIV)
"If a man has sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They are to be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads." (Lev 20:13 NIV)

No, their views seem pretty consistent with the word of God.

It is a sin, but doing what WBC does is not what Christ teaches.

[Monster1776]

It is a sin, but doing what WBC does is not what Christ teaches.

They're not Christians period.

[Big Empty]

Im thinking these people cant be this crazy. They are looking to provoke an altercation so they can sue you hiding behind the first amendment.

[Aztecfan03]

You type way too much.

First of all, you claimed that the Bible prohibited the beating of slaves. You were extremely wrong. Not only could slaves be beaten, they could be beaten to death, because they are their owner's property. And you're trying to rationalize that.


The translation you are using makes it sound different, but that passage doesn't say you could beat slaves to death.

[capek]

LOL Christians

eta: Westboro used to disgust and anger me until I watched the documentary on them made by Louis Theroux. But after seeing the way those wackos indoctrinate their kids into their way of thinking, the whole thing just makes me really sad and sick to my stomach. Louie, as always, does a great job of letting the subjects speak for themselves; you look in these kids' eyes and literally see how their brain is being fucked up by being raised in that environment. Fucking disturbing.

[capek]

Im thinking these people cant be this crazy. They are looking to provoke an altercation so they can sue you hiding behind the first amendment.

No, they are definitely this crazy. If you're interested enough, check out the Theroux documentary I mentioned above, called The Most Hated Family in America. Prolly on netflix of something. Worth a watch to better understand just how differently some other people than yourself think.

[Blake]

Again saying something doesn't make it true.

uh, ok.

[SanAntonioSpurs23]

Isnt eating shellfish an "abomination" according to the bible?

Fuck all religions tbh....

[Blake]

As far as the WBC is concerned, it's a right to protest whether you agree with it or not. I can protest a piece of dog sh*t in my front yard but ain't nobody got time for that.

I am a Christian and was always told to love thy neighbor. I leave any judging up to God.
For the scientists, explain consciousness. Cannot be done to this day.
For the atheists, explain your reason for walking around this planet freely with air in your lungs. God is love. If you have ever loved or felt love, that is God. You might want to jump on board. (Just in case) :tu

I don't know. probably dumb luck, like hitting the mega ball lottery.

Why did your loving Christian God create an eternal hell for us non believers?

[ElNono]

Depends on the system you're operating in, can either minimalize losses and maintain larger profits or can protect against non-existent losses at the cost of larger profits.

Well, if you're operating on a system where you can't lose, is it really a 'bet'?

[Blake]

Christians don't disavow the Old Testament, we acknowledge it's our history. We just don't practice it's teachings because it was instructed by Jesus Christ; his teachings being the basis of Christianity. (It's in the name)


.

why didn't God just skip on ahead to the New Testament from day 1?

Why did he need to kill himself?

Why couldn't he simply change the rules on sacrifice?

etc.

[Blake]

Explain the feeling of loving your kids or relatives? The answers are saved for when we get to heaven. For now, being thankful for the health we have, the peope we love and the world we live in is good enough rationale for me.

What's the rationale for eternal torment?

I would never eternally torment my kids, especially for something as silly as not believing in me.

[Blake]

Al Gore is a fucking nut and queer.

How Christian of you.

[mindcrime]

I don't know. probably dumb luck, like hitting the mega ball lottery.

Why did your loving Christian God create an eternal hell for us non believers?

I think you answered your own question.

[mindcrime]

Speaking of eternal hell, wonder what Jerry Buss is up to now?

[Woo Bum-kon]

And I thought the passage you quoted explicitly said that if a slave was beaten to death, the owner would be punished (dealt with in the ways of a murderer.

The owner would be punished if the slave dies within a day after the beating.

And again, since you keep dodging this:


You are talking about slavery as those practiced in the 15th century of abuses, but the Bible talks about slavery as a form of servitude. Yes, people were owned for a specific number of years, but they were also guaranteed their basic human rights. Some of them were to be set free after a number of years, be provided with wages and basics of living. Almost like a contract that you are bound to. It does not allow slaves to be beaten, neglected and abused.

You were wrong. Not only were slaves allowed to be beaten, they could be beaten to death so long as they don't die right away, because they are their master's property.


It does not mean that the owner will face no consequence.

I think "he shall not be punished" means that the master won't face consequences.

But the larger point is being missed: this is not how to treat a human being. Period. God is disgusting for allowing this type of behavior.


A theist's position is inherently illogical because of why? You seemed to be entrenched in the idea that you are somehow more logical than a huge number of people who have accepted Christianity or other religions as their beliefs, and that any views other than atheism is illogical, when atheism itself has scores of unanswered questions.

Atheism is the lack of belief in a god or gods. That's it. Your belief in the invisible sky daddy is illogical because it has no support whatsoever--just like every other civilizations' invisible sky daddies. Lack of belief is the only logical conclusion, because there is no evidence for the existence of a god.


I have shown two that are misinterpreted because it was taken out of context. There are scores others that fall under this category. And to think that, a religion that has been around for 2000 years, including one that has been studied extensively by scholars for the last 5 or 6 hundred years, have contradictions that has not been noticed and debated to death is quite a bold position for you to take.

No, you didn't show that shit was taken out of context. You claimed that God doesn't allow the beating of slaves, and I proved you wrong.

http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/jim_meritt/bible-contradictions.html

Here's a shitton of contradictions.


Thank you for telling me what I know and what I don't know. I know you have been doing that quite well throughout this thread.

What logical fallacy did I commit, genius?


How so? You have clearly misinterpreted that passage.

To a delusional apologist, maybe. To a rational human being, being allowed to beat a slave to death so long as he or she doesn't die right away doesn't magically mean that God prohibited violence against slaves.


And I was raised an atheist, so? And somehow assuming that you are more objective than people you have never met is neither objective nor logical.

It is objective and logical. I have come to the logical conclusion that I am more objective because every claim I made about the Bible is well-supported. You were wrong about what the Bible says. DPG was wrong about what the Bible says. Multiple other theists here are wrong about what the Bible says.


If you are referring to Leviticus 18:22, read the entire passage.

I did. Your point, please.


No it's not. Please, you have taken quite a strong position in quotes that are out of context. When I say out of context, I am not saying that under certain circumstances, some actions are allowed. I am saying that the phrase is taken out of context of what the entire passage actually means.

Bullshit.


I know I am not going to convince you one way or another because you have said so explicitly, so I will not try.

You haven't done shit to convince me. You are about as lazy as spursncowboys. Both of you shout, "It's the context!" and refuse to elaborate when pressed.

Stop with the bullshit.

In what context is killing an unruly child okay? Answer the question.

[Woo Bum-kon]

When you say religious extremists, are you including atheism as well?

Atheism is the rejection of the claim, "God exists." It's not a religion. As long as one lacks belief in a god, they can believe whatever they want and act however they want and still be an atheist.

[Blake]

I think you answered your own question.

It's a paradox. He can't be loving and forgiving if he eternally torments the non-believer.

[td4mvp2k]

RIP Russell Westbrook

:lol tru dat

[BobaFett1]

FUCK YEAH!! That's what 'm talkin' bout, how it should be! 'Murica, freedom ain't free, hefty fee, not a dry eye, Jason Witten no helmet, catching a pass with :10 sec left against the hated Redskins in the SuperBowl, 70 yards to go, looking bleak, 3 guys piling on, looking like he's down, musters up enough courage to keep going while pulling the american flag out of his pocket, dragging 3 'skeens into the 'zone, clock expiring as he stretches the pigskin/american flag over the goalline where his son and wife are waiting for him, Boys win, Witten rushed by all the veterans in the stadium, hoisting the 'bardi trophy in one hand, son in the other, carried off the field to 'bama's private jet etc
_____________________________

[TampaDude]

FUCK YEAH!! That's what 'm talkin' bout, how it should be! 'Murica, freedom ain't free, hefty fee, not a dry eye, Jason Witten no helmet, catching a pass with :10 sec left against the hated Redskins in the SuperBowl, 70 yards to go, looking bleak, 3 guys piling on, looking like he's down, musters up enough courage to keep going while pulling the american flag out of his pocket, dragging 3 'skeens into the 'zone, clock expiring as he stretches the pigskin/american flag over the goalline where his son and wife are waiting for him, Boys win, Witten rushed by all the veterans in the stadium, hoisting the 'bardi trophy in one hand, son in the other, carried off the field to 'bama's private jet etc
_____________________________

Both the Redskins and the Cowboys are in the NFC, so they cannot meet in the Super Bowl.

[xellos88330]

Procreation was probably also a huge deal back in the bible days. Nowadays there are just so many people running around, having people not having kids could be a good thing. Back then, a lot of your societal status depended on the amount of children you bore/fathered. It was survival necessity.

[ambchang]

Here's a recent quote from tea party congressman, Joe Barton:

“I would point out that if you’re a believer in in the Bible, one would have to say the Great Flood is an example of climate change and that certainly wasn’t because mankind had overdeveloped hydrocarbon energy.”

Dude, come on, you can't quote tea party members. Those guys use the Bible as a way for political gains. I would also say the pope is a more reliable source of interpreting the Bible than a team party member. That said, I don't believe he is 100% right all the time either. Actually, other than Jesus, I don't think anybody was ever 100% correct since the NT.

[ambchang]

It's pretty clear the death is for the actions themselves.

Just like cutting off a woman's hand for striking a man in the semen maker in defense of her husband is clear

Not according to most Biblical scholars. If you read the Bible in its entirety, there are only two rules. Love God, and love your neighbours. Everything else revolves around/and builds up to that point.

Also, we can't put the OT in today's viewing lens. Those rules were meant to provide order to society which were harsh and painful.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

Dude, come on, you can't quote tea party members. Those guys use the Bible as a way for political gains. I would also say the pope is a more reliable source of interpreting the Bible than a team party member. That said, I don't believe he is 100% right all the time either. Actually, other than Jesus, I don't think anybody was ever 100% correct since the NT.
He's a US Congressman so his views aren't THAT extreme compared to the American people if he's capable of winning a district. In any secular country like Canada, Germany, Australia, etc., someone who said something like that would get laughed out of office.

[ambchang]

The owner would be punished if the slave dies within a day after the beating.

And again, since you keep dodging this:



You were wrong. Not only were slaves allowed to be beaten, they could be beaten to death so long as they don't die right away, because they are their master's property.



I think "he shall not be punished" means that the master won't face consequences.

But the larger point is being missed: this is not how to treat a human being. Period. God is disgusting for allowing this type of behavior.



Atheism is the lack of belief in a god or gods. That's it. Your belief in the invisible sky daddy is illogical because it has no support whatsoever--just like every other civilizations' invisible sky daddies. Lack of belief is the only logical conclusion, because there is no evidence for the existence of a god.



No, you didn't show that shit was taken out of context. You claimed that God doesn't allow the beating of slaves, and I proved you wrong.

http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/jim_meritt/bible-contradictions.html

Here's a shitton of contradictions.



What logical fallacy did I commit, genius?



To a delusional apologist, maybe. To a rational human being, being allowed to beat a slave to death so long as he or she doesn't die right away doesn't magically mean that God prohibited violence against slaves.



It is objective and logical. I have come to the logical conclusion that I am more objective because every claim I made about the Bible is well-supported. You were wrong about what the Bible says. DPG was wrong about what the Bible says. Multiple other theists here are wrong about what the Bible says.



I did. Your point, please.



Bullshit.



You haven't done shit to convince me. You are about as lazy as spursncowboys. Both of you shout, "It's the context!" and refuse to elaborate when pressed.

Stop with the bullshit.

In what context is killing an unruly child okay? Answer the question.

I have explained the meaning of punished already, and you have chosen to ignore it. It's one way a logical and objective person does not act.

Using your own habits of misinterpreting single passages out of context, I will then say that you are an illogical and nonobjective person in every single thing you do.

I have elaborated plenty, and you chose to ignore them. In fact, all you are doing is ignore every thing that does not agree with your view points. I mean, at least Blake and DoK chose to actually read some of the comments written.

I have written out explanations specific to your questions once (the punishment segment), and you chose to ignore. It is therefore reasonable for me to say that whatever else I wrote to you will simply be ignored from this point on, so there is no point in me wasting time.

And finally, I find it hypocritical for you say that me and spursncowboys are lazy (especially when I came up with specific examples and explanations of explaining your questions) when you refused to look up or spend any reasonable time to understand the things you are criticizing against. Streams and streams of content is available online (though not all correct). You just type in the topic of discussion in google, keep and open mind, and read it.

EDIT: BTW, you have serious comprehension issues, and the amazing ability to twist words around to suit your own arguments. Perhaps before reading the Bible, you address that issue first.

[Blake]

Procreation was probably also a huge deal back in the bible days. Nowadays there are just so many people running around, having people not having kids could be a good thing. Back then, a lot of your societal status depended on the amount of children you bore/fathered. It was survival necessity.

"we need to increase our population so let's kill people that break the law "

[ambchang]

He's a US Congressman so his views aren't THAT extreme compared to the American people if he's capable of winning a district. In any secular country like Canada, Germany, Australia, etc., someone who said something like that would get laughed out of office.

That is more an issue with American politics than religion then, isn't it.

I don't know about Germany and Australia, but in Canada, there has been some pretty eyebrow raising comments by our MPs as well.

[Blake]

Not according to most Biblical scholars. If you read the Bible in its entirety, there are only two rules. Love God, and love your neighbours. Everything else revolves around/and builds up to that point.

Also, we can't put the OT in today's viewing lens. Those rules were meant to provide order to society which were harsh and painful.

Yeah, we all know about unchanging God changing the rules as he went along.

Feel free to give a quote from one of these Bible scholars at any time regarding homosexual law in the OT.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

That is more an issue with American politics than religion then, isn't it.

I don't know about Germany and Australia, but in Canada, there has been some pretty eyebrow raising comments by our MPs as well.
American religion being so over-the-top is why religion can't get kept out of politics, it's too important in too many people's lives. Outside of Bill Maher's show, I haven't seen any TV news outlet call Barton's comments out for being fuckin retarded, and that's because religious fanaticism is par for the course in America.

[EVAY]

Soooooo, did Westboro picket last night's game or not? If so, did anyone counter-picket?

[Woo Bum-kon]

I have explained the meaning of punished already, and you have chosen to ignore it. It's one way a logical and objective person does not act.

Using your own habits of misinterpreting single passages out of context, I will then say that you are an illogical and nonobjective person in every single thing you do.

Cool story, bro.


I have elaborated plenty, and you chose to ignore them. In fact, all you are doing is ignore every thing that does not agree with your view points. I mean, at least Blake and DoK chose to actually read some of the comments written.

Nah, your argument is just weak.


I have written out explanations specific to your questions once (the punishment segment), and you chose to ignore. It is therefore reasonable for me to say that whatever else I wrote to you will simply be ignored from this point on, so there is no point in me wasting time.

Whine, whine, whine. The Bible does not prohibit the beating of slaves. You are wrong. Period.


And finally, I find it hypocritical for you say that me and spursncowboys are lazy (especially when I came up with specific examples and explanations of explaining your questions) when you refused to look up or spend any reasonable time to understand the things you are criticizing against. Streams and streams of content is available online (though not all correct). You just type in the topic of discussion in google, keep and open mind, and read it.

You are lazy because your entire argument is just, "Look at the context!" I already proved you wrong on your claim that the Bible prohibits the beating of slaves.


EDIT: BTW, you have serious comprehension issues, and the amazing ability to twist words around to suit your own arguments. Perhaps before reading the Bible, you address that issue first.

I didn't twist any words around.

Kill unruly children = Kill unruly children.
Kill homosexuals = Kill homosexuals.
Kill non-believers = Kill non-believers.

No amount of your lazy rationalizations will change that.

[dirk4mvp]

Both the Redskins and the Cowboys are in the NFC, so they cannot meet in the Super Bowl.

Nothing gets past you.

[Blake]

Soooooo, did Westboro picket last night's game or not? If so, did anyone counter-picket?

They did but I doubt Monster1776 followed through on his threats.

[EVAY]

They did but I doubt Monster1776 followed through on his threats.

Thx.

[xellos88330]

"we need to increase our population so let's kill people that break the law "

it is more like.... "let's get rid of the people who won't procreate"

[ambchang]

Yeah, we all know about unchanging God changing the rules as he went along.

Feel free to give a quote from one of these Bible scholars at any time regarding homosexual law in the OT.

It's not about changing the rules, it's about the maturity of the religion as a whole.

[ambchang]

Cool story, bro.



Nah, your argument is just weak.



Whine, whine, whine. The Bible does not prohibit the beating of slaves. You are wrong. Period.



You are lazy because your entire argument is just, "Look at the context!" I already proved you wrong on your claim that the Bible prohibits the beating of slaves.



I didn't twist any words around.

Kill unruly children = Kill unruly children.
Kill homosexuals = Kill homosexuals.
Kill non-believers = Kill non-believers.

No amount of your lazy rationalizations will change that.

Not sure how it was lazy. Funny thing is, you pull up that logical and objective card, and yet you are one of the least logical and objective person in this thread. Pretty much a religious fanatic version of an atheist. In other words, you are the person you claim to hate.

[JohnnyMax]

Anything with the word "West" in their name is douchebag

Westbrick
Westboro

[Blake]

it is more like.... "let's get rid of the people who won't procreate"

Well they could have simply kicked them out of the community.

[Blake]

It's not about changing the rules, it's about the maturity of the religion as a whole.

No, God clearly calls homosexuality an abomination. The word abomination is actually used. It's right there for even the non-Bible scholar to see.

If it's not God changing the rules, then it's Christians trying to by claiming silly things like "context"

[Monster1776]

They did but I doubt Monster1776 followed through on his threats.

http://www.idolol.com/pictures/971fb48922c36eabb61390715c2faa87.jpg

[Monster1776]

Thx.

http://kfor.com/2013/05/01/group-peacefully-protesting-westboro-at-thunder-game/

[Blake]

http://www.idolol.com/pictures/971fb48922c36eabb61390715c2faa87.jpg

Oh, so you did go eye for an eye.......using a witty sex act even!

Well done, Christian!

[EVAY]

http://www.idolol.com/pictures/971fb48922c36eabb61390715c2faa87.jpg

:lol:toast

I'm glad to know somebody did something. Those people are so hateful the are the antithesis of Christianity.

[Blake]

If Westboro steps a single foot into Oklahoma, we'll be sure to show them a little good ole' fashioned southern hospitality to these "kindred" spirits.

That peaceful protest against Westboro really taught them not to mess with Oklahoma!

[Monster1776]

That peaceful protest against Westboro really taught them not to mess with Oklahoma!

I apologize, I don't know how things are done in Texas, but we don't tend to shoot the mentally ill on sight in the streets.

[ambchang]

No, God clearly calls homosexuality an abomination. The word abomination is actually used. It's right there for even the non-Bible scholar to see.

If it's not God changing the rules, then it's Christians trying to by claiming silly things like "context"

What is wrong with that? Homosexuality has not been accepted until recent times, and no, Christians and most religious organizations still do not condone homosexuality.

I am not exactly sure what this is about, because breaking it down logically, if a Christian was the read that phrase, it wouldn't offend, because most Christians do no agree with homosexuality, if a non-believer read that phrase, it's not a big deal because s/he doesn't believe in the Bible anyways.

[Monster1776]

What is wrong with that? Homosexuality has not been accepted until recent times, and no, Christians and most religious organizations still do not condone homosexuality.

I am not exactly sure what this is about, because breaking it down logically, if a Christian was the read that phrase, it wouldn't offend, because most Christians do no agree with homosexuality, if a non-believer read that phrase, it's not a big deal because s/he doesn't believe in the Bible anyways.

This pretty much, I don't agree with homosexuality and don't think it's what was meant for us as a species. But if someone is a homosexual and they truly feel that is their identity then I'm not going to think any less of them or tell them they're a horrible person and going to hell.

Matthew 7:1-5 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+7%3A1-5&version=ESV)“Judge not, that you be not judged. For with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, and with the measure you use it will be measured to you. Why do you see the speck that is in your brother's eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when there is the log in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye.

[mindcrime]

Atheism is the lack of belief in a god or gods. That's it. Your belief in the invisible sky daddy is illogical because it has no support whatsoever--just like every other civilizations' invisible sky daddies. Lack of belief is the only logical conclusion, because there is no evidence for the existence of a god.


This kind of reminds me of what I'm going through with my car dealership. The A/C in my car is losing refrigerant and the dealership cannot figure out why. Their exact words "We cannot prove that its a warranty issue therefore you are liable for the charges". That's funny, you cannot prove that its not a warranty issue either. Why am I getting the shaft?

Back to the topic. Prove to me that he doesn't exist and I will become an atheist just like yourself.

[jermaine]

I'm a Christian, and I am ashamed of people like this. They are not true to the word of God, they think they represent God\Christ but they are really representing the other guy. I am not a fan of homosexuality, but to take time to protest gays and all this stuff is not the way of a good person\Christian.

They are attention seekers. An besides, the BIBLE says there will be many that say unto god. "Ive cast out devils in your name". An God shall say "Flee from me I do not know thee".

[Clipper Nation]

This kind of reminds me of what I'm going through with my car dealership. The A/C in my car is losing refrigerant and the dealership cannot figure out why. Their exact words "We cannot prove that its a warranty issue therefore you are liable for the charges". That's funny, you cannot prove that its not a warranty issue either. Why am I getting the shaft?

Back to the topic. Prove to me that he doesn't exist and I will become an atheist just like yourself.
Nice attempt to shift the burden of proof, but when you have to resort to asking your opponents to prove the negative, you've lost the argument....

[Blake]

I apologize, I don't know how things are done in Texas, but we don't tend to shoot the mentally ill on sight in the streets.

So when you said you were going to show them southern hospitality, you really meant it.

My bad.