Steve Kerr's vote for 1st team All-NBA

[Obstructed_View]

He just mentioned on Mike and Mike that he voted Marc Gasol over Duncan for first team. There was some mention of a discussion with Bruce Bowen earlier, and I didn't hear how that went, but it sounded like Bowen gave Gasol the nod as well.

I will be rooting heavily for Memphis to get to the conference finals. I really want Duncan to dominate him.

[100%duncan]

TBH, I'd want Memphis to be in the WCF instead of OKC. :lol I could careless about what others think.

[boutons_deux]

As wonderful as the rejuvenated TD has been, MG has better season numbers.

[z0sa]

TD just dominated Dwight Howard and yet Marc Gasol is better? LOL okay.

[peacemaker885]

FTG

[spurraider21]

As wonderful as the rejuvenated TD has been, MG has better season numbers.

TD: 18 points 10 rebounds 2.7 blocks 50% FG 81% FT 2.7 assists 0.7 steals 2.1 turnovers
MG: 14 points 8 rebounds 1.7 blocks 49% FG 85% FT 4.0 assists 1.0 steals 2.0 turnovers

Timmy does better in the "big man" stats, and this considering Timmy plays 30 minutes per game to Marc's 35

[BillMc]

As wonderful as the rejuvenated TD has been, MG has better season numbers.

You mean besides the fast that Tim gets more points, rebounds, and blocks than Gasol in less minutes, shoots a higher percentage, has a higher PER, and his team had a better record?

[100%duncan]

As wonderful as the rejuvenated TD has been, MG has better season numbers.

TD: http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/d/duncati01.html#all_per_game
MG:http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/g/gasolma01.html#all_per_game

Not really.

[Juggity]

As wonderful as the rejuvenated TD has been, MG has better season numbers.

Nope. Not even close, actually. Duncan dominates Gasol in every statistical category except for assists and FT% (and only slightly, there). In 5 fewer minutes played/game.

Tim Duncan


Season ▾
Age
Tm
Lg
Pos
G
GS
MP
FG
FGA
FG%
3P
3PA
3P%
FT
FTA
FT%
ORB
DRB
TRB
AST
STL
BLK
TOV
PF
PTS


2012-13 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/d/duncati01/gamelog/2013/)
36
SAS (http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/SAS/2013.html)
NBA (http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2013.html)
C
69
69
30.1
7.1
14.1
.502
0.0
0.1
.286
3.6
4.3
.817
1.8
8.1
9.9
2.7
0.7
2.7
2.1
1.7
17.8



Marc Gasol


Season ▾
Age
Tm
Lg
Pos
G
GS
MP
FG
FGA
FG%
3P
3PA
3P%
FT
FTA
FT%
ORB
DRB
TRB
AST
STL
BLK
TOV
PF
PTS


2012-13 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/g/gasolma01/gamelog/2013/)
28
MEM (http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/MEM/2013.html)
NBA (http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2013.html)
C
80
80
35.0
5.4
10.9
.494
0.0
0.2
.071
3.4
4.0
.848
2.3
5.5
7.8
4.0
1.0
1.7
2.0
3.2
14.1

[100%duncan]

As wonderful as the rejuvenated TD has been, MG has better season numbers.

TD: http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/d/duncati01.html#all_per_game
MG:http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/g/gasolma01.html#all_per_game

Not really.

[BillMc]

The only serious case that can be made for Gasol is he played 11 more games than TD. (Though even this argument, I disagree with).


I actually think in these things one name gets "hot", and then the others just follow along. In this case Gasol is the name in the news, and nobody's checking the stats.

Ironically, Kobe is a lock for first team because of what he did "at his age", but not TD apparently.

So, like OP I'll enjoy it if Timmy gets a chance to rectify things in the WCF

[Old School 44]

Tim's good, but not great. His game is the product of the Spurs "system". Just like Tony and Manu...role players shining in an elite "system".

[FromWayDowntown]

TD: 18 points 10 rebounds 2.7 blocks 50% FG 81% FT 2.7 assists 0.7 steals 2.1 turnovers
MG: 14 points 8 rebounds 1.7 blocks 49% FG 85% FT 4.0 assists 1.0 steals 2.0 turnovers

Timmy does better in the "big man" stats, and this considering Timmy plays 30 minutes per game to Marc's 35

To be fair to the argument, there is a hint in the more advanced metrics that Gasol had a better season. Gasol was slightly better in WS/48, had a slightly better true shooting percentage, and a significantly higher offensive rating (115 to 107) despite having a considerably lower usage rate (Duncan -- 27.8; Gasol -- 19.2).

With that said, the wonks who've jumped on the Gasol bandwagon seem to defend any choice of Gasol over Duncan this season based on the fact that Gasol played 700 more minutes than Duncan; they seem to argue that it's better to be pretty good for almost 3000 minutes than to be really, really good for about 2000 minutes.

[z0sa]

:lol boutons getting destroyed per par

[Obstructed_View]

:lol boutons getting destroyed per par

Long history of refusing to be swayed by facts or reality.

[mercos]

Gasol doesn't even pass the eye test over Duncan. Not sure how anyone could watch them both play and think Gasol is better.

[z0sa]

Long history of refusing to be swayed by facts or reality.

Boutons actually said the Spurs wouldn't make the playoffs last season. We're not talking about a pre-season prediction, either; it was post ASB IIRC.

[z0sa]

BTW, some people seem to be arguing Memphis proved they could beat San Antonio in 2011. As if broken arm Ginobili doesn't change the equation, him being healthy along with Boris Diaw and Tiago Splitter being rotation players now should skew any predictions based on 2011.

[Whisky Dog]

Nice to see the Phoenix Sun is still squarely imbeded up Kerr's ass.

[Mal]

Why all of sudden fat Gasol is NBA 1st team player ? Seriously ? 14ppg, 8prg or something ? Defensive players, good or bad doesnt belong to all NBA 1st team

[FromWayDowntown]

BTW, some people seem to be arguing Memphis proved they could beat San Antonio in 2011. As if broken arm Ginobili doesn't change the equation, him being healthy along with Boris Diaw and Tiago Splitter being rotation players now should skew any predictions based on 2011.

Well, and there is the fact that Richard Jefferson started 6 games in that series and played almost 30 minutes per game. And there's the fact that George Hill played more than 30 minutes per night, Antonio McDyess (at 36) played almost 25 minutes per night, and Matt Bonner played more than 20 minutes per night as basically the 3rd big while shooting 33% from behind the arc. And there's the fact that the Spurs got barely 12 points per game -- combined -- from their starting 3 and 5 and not even 25 points per game combined from their starting frontcourt (Duncan 12.7; Jefferson 6.5; McDyess 5.7).

Things have certainly changed.

I still think the Grizzlies' interior length and athleticism would give the Spurs significant problems, but at least it would seem to be a fairer fight if those teams are fortunate enough to advance to meet each other.

[DesignatedT]

It's all about minutes played. That's it.

[024]

Same story, no one campaigned at all for Duncan. Just like how he didn't even have a chance at DPOY. Duncan just undressed "the best center in the world" and took him to school but no one cares.

[LarryDavid]

Not sure how big a factor this plays, but don't forget (former?) ESPN writer John Hollinger is now the VP of Basketball Operations for the Grizzlies and has been since December.

[cd98]

To be fair to the argument, there is a hint in the more advanced metrics that Gasol had a better season. Gasol was slightly better in WS/48, had a slightly better true shooting percentage, and a significantly higher offensive rating (115 to 107) despite having a considerably lower usage rate (Duncan -- 27.8; Gasol -- 19.2).

With that said, the wonks who've jumped on the Gasol bandwagon seem to defend any choice of Gasol over Duncan this season based on the fact that Gasol played 700 more minutes than Duncan; they seem to argue that it's better to be pretty good for almost 3000 minutes than to be really, really good for about 2000 minutes.

I think the wonks have a valid point. But I also think that he has amassed more rebounds and scored more points than Gasol despite playing almost 3,000 minutes less than Gasol.

[Mugen]

I'd rather play a healthy Memphis team than Westbrook-less OKC tbh.

[freetiago]

Rather not play Memphis
they love to injure everybody they play

[eric365]

TD: 18 points 10 rebounds 2.7 blocks 50% FG 81% FT 2.7 assists 0.7 steals 2.1 turnovers
MG: 14 points 8 rebounds 1.7 blocks 49% FG 85% FT 4.0 assists 1.0 steals 2.0 turnovers

Timmy does better in the "big man" stats, and this considering Timmy plays 30 minutes per game to Marc's 35

MG : 80 games
TD : 69 games

The number of missed games is important in the awards voting.

[ajh18]

The minutes played argument might hold more water if Gasol's overall production numbers were higher than Tim's. If he averaged less points, rebounds, blocks, etc per game, but produced more total over the year and played in more games.

But Duncan's total numbers are greater than Mark's, even in fewer games. Points: 1227 vs 1127. Rebs: 686 vs 622. Blocks: 183 vs 139.

Ask CEOs who they'd rather have: the guy who spends more time at work but produces less, or the guy who spends less time at work but produces more. The vast majority would choose the latter. That's Tim Duncan.

[Obstructed_View]

The number of missed games is suddenly important in the awards voting.

Kevin Garnett and Marcus Camby say hi.

[HarlemHeat37]

Gasol's only argument is total minutes, tbh..

As I've been saying all year, he's now arguably the most overrated player in the NBA..

He had a 19% usage rate this year on a mediocre offensive team, he has never had to carry any sort of load, despite playing on a team that struggles to generate offense, tbh:lol..

[spurs10]

You mean besides the fast that Tim gets more points, rebounds, and blocks than Gasol in less minutes, shoots a higher percentage, has a higher PER, and his team had a better record?
:toast
.....and in less mpg!!

[Obstructed_View]

Then Lebron is right; he should have won it. Since minutes is the big factor now, and not rebounds or blocks or steals.

And where's Kobe? He played over 3000 minutes.

[spurraider21]

I don't care what position they list him in. Center. Guard. Forward. Just get Timmy on that first team. He's the best big in the game. He destroyed Dwight on a psychological level to a point where he wasn't even able to outplay Aron Baynes in game 4. The clip where Duncan spins and just slams it in DPOY Gasol's face should be a sufficient argument.

[hater]

:lol why is anyone surprised?

it's espn. They probably fine their commentators for every Spurs mention.

[rmt]

Why does Steve Kerr get a vote? Don't the coaches vote for all-nba teams? Besides, not sure M Gasol is even the best big man on his own team much less in the NBA.

[Johnny RIngo]

Gasol's only argument is total minutes, tbh..

As I've been saying all year, he's now arguably the most overrated player in the NBA..

He had a 19% usage rate this year on a mediocre offensive team, he has never had to carry any sort of load, despite playing on a team that struggles to generate offense, tbh:lol..

Seriously. I don't even hate Gasol but the amount of people sucking his dick right now is ridiculous. If KG put up TD's numbers this season, everybody would be talking about how he's the unanimous best big in the league.

[Paulie]

Historically, how does TD and MG do against each other?

[superbigtime]

Fucking ridiculous. Yeah most of Tim's numbers are better. Tim passes eyeball better than Gasol. Spurs record is better. Where's the respect factor. Kerr got a couple chips w Tim.

[Obstructed_View]

Why does Steve Kerr get a vote? Don't the coaches vote for all-nba teams? Besides, not sure M Gasol is even the best big man on his own team much less in the NBA.

The way he worded it made it sound like he had a vote, but now that you mention it, it may have just been a figure of speech. I was more dumbfounded by him directly comparing Gasol and Duncan and saying Gasol was better to grasp the other nuances. :)

[letmk]

Seriously. I don't even hate Gasol but the amount of people sucking his dick right now is ridiculous. If KG put up TD's numbers this season, everybody would be talking about how he's the unanimous best big in the league.

Don't even need to use KG as an analogy. Let's just assume Tim has Gasol's statistics and the Spurs are #5 seed. The media would've called for Tim's retirement already. Now that Marc Gasol does that, he is in the All-NBA first team!!

Stupidity is not even enough to say.

[Obstructed_View]

Don't even need to use KG as an analogy. Let's just assume Tim has Gasol's statistics and the Spurs are #5 seed. The media would've called for Tim's retirement already. Now that Marc Gasol does that, he is in the All-NBA first team!!

Stupidity is not even enough to say.

Now imagine that Tim has Gasol's statistics, the Spurs are the #5 seed, and Bowen in his prime is still on the team. Gasol has Tony Allen playing next to him, who also finished higher in DPOY than Duncan.

[Budkin]

Gasol is fresh and exciting! Timmy is old and boring. :-(

[letmk]

Now imagine that Tim has Gasol's statistics, the Spurs are the #5 seed, and Bowen in his prime is still on the team. Gasol has Tony Allen playing next to him, who also finished higher in DPOY than Duncan.

Exactly. I have nothing against Gasol. He is a very good player, a rare traditional big man who can post-up for offense instead of shooting 3-pointers. With DH and Stat hobbled, and Chandler and Noah being one dimensional, Gasol is in the talk of one of the best big men.

But he is just not THAT great (DPOY and First Team worthy), and as others mentioned, he may not even be the best big man in this own team.

[Homeland Security]

MG being discussed for first-team is a result of the crystallized old paradigm of NBA positions not fitting how teams play now.

The old paradigm of two guards, two forwards, and a center hasn't existed for years.

Now the real paradigm is a point, two wings, and two posts.

Most of the better post players call themselves "PF," but the taller elite wing players scoop up the "forward" slots on the All-Teams, and you have to get down to the sixth- or seventh-best post player in the league before you find one labeled as a "C," and that's who ends up on the "first team."

[z0sa]

Well, and there is the fact that Richard Jefferson started 6 games in that series and played almost 30 minutes per game. And there's the fact that George Hill played more than 30 minutes per night, Antonio McDyess (at 36) played almost 25 minutes per night, and Matt Bonner played more than 20 minutes per night as basically the 3rd big while shooting 33% from behind the arc. And there's the fact that the Spurs got barely 12 points per game -- combined -- from their starting 3 and 5 and not even 25 points per game combined from their starting frontcourt (Duncan 12.7; Jefferson 6.5; McDyess 5.7).

Things have certainly changed.

I still think the Grizzlies' interior length and athleticism would give the Spurs significant problems, but at least it would seem to be a fairer fight if those teams are fortunate enough to advance to meet each other.

Way to run with it man! :lol

You're absolutely right, of course. It's apples and oranges comparing the 2011 Spurs playoff team to this year's squad.

[Malice]

It is getting pretty annoying how EVERYONE has shit on TD's season. This was an incredible year for anyone, let alone a NBA legend supposedly in the twilight of his career. Disrespected for DPOY, and now this...unbelievable. I hope TD takes these slights, and keeps shitting over the bigs in the playoffs this year...:hat

[hater]

yup I want the Grizz in WCF, revenge.

but it's too early for that talk tbh

[AusSpur]

Very good player Gasol but Timmy gets my vote. I'm surprised that nobody mentions how poor a rebounder Gasol is for his size, Brook Lopez always get marked down for this reason and they rebound at a similar rate with BL pulling down 6.9 in 30.4 mins and MG 7.8 in 35 mins.

[Paulie]

Historically, how does TD and MG do against each other?

[superbigtime]

Very good player Gasol but Timmy gets my vote. I'm surprised that nobody mentions how poor a rebounder Gasol is for his size, Brook Lopez always get marked down for this reason and they rebound at a similar rate with BL pulling down 6.9 in 30.4 mins and MG 7.8 in 35 mins.


I didn't mention, but I'll sure agree w you. Gasol is an average rebounder.

[Libri]

Marc related to Paul Gasol, who plays for the Lakers, thus Marc Gasol over Tim Duncan. :nerd

[Obstructed_View]

Historically, how does TD and MG do against each other?


http://uppix.net/e/9/d/7d80efb7125cec88789fe05ed407d.gif

[ThaBigFundamental21]

I hope we play those motherfuckers in the WCF and Tim Duncan goes 03 on that SOB. I am so sick of this shit. Bring it Gasoft, Tim will make you look like your overrated brother. Then when Marc and Pau get old they can tell their grand kids the story of how The Great Tim Duncan humiliated them both.

[TDfan2007]

Historically, how does TD and MG do against each other?

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=duncati01&p2=gasolma01#stats::none

[TD 21]

It's funny how awards that are supposed to be about excellence become about being just plain good when you're white. They're not in the same league and if Gasol were "black", his weaknesses (atrocious defensive rebounder considering his overwhelming size and severe lack of assertiveness on offense) would be magnified and his skill would be secondary. Yet in typical media fashion, they relentlessly slobber over him, just as they have Nowitzki, Love and his brother. It never fails.

I hope the Spurs get the Grizzlies in the WCF, too, so that Duncan can make these idiots who think they're smarter than they are look like fools and so that they can get revenge.

[Obstructed_View]

Yeah, it's disgusting how much respect white men get in basketball...wait wut?

[Leetonidas]

Gasol has no argument over Duncan, period, anywhere. Only a couple advanced stats barely favor him. Kerr and Bowen proving that playing in the NBA doesn't mean you know shit about evaluating talent

[Obstructed_View]

I think Timmy's ex-teammates are trying so hard to ingratiate themselves with ESPN that they don't dare say anything nice about the Spurs. I'm a little surprised Scott Van Pelt was able to go on that little rant about how good the Spurs are without having his show pulled from the air.

[Baynes]

As wonderful as the rejuvenated TD has been, MG has better season numbers.

kill yourself please

[TheGoldStandard]

If ESPN says it then I take it as a total fabrication.

[spurraider21]

Gasol has no argument over Duncan, period, anywhere. Only a couple advanced stats barely favor him. Kerr and Bowen proving that playing in the NBA doesn't mean you know shit about evaluating talent

i think MJ proved the shit out of that :lol

[TheGoldStandard]

i think MJ proved the shit out of that :lol

Kawmi Brown and Adam Morrison send MJ Christmas cards every year

[Sean Cagney]

As wonderful as the rejuvenated TD has been, MG has better season numbers.
No he didn't. Tim played less mins too.

[Kidd K]

If they want to say Marc Gasol over Duncan for defensive team, okay (though I don't agree with that either). But regular all NBA? Marc Gasol is absolutely not better than Duncan unless this is just a "he played 80 games to Duncan's 69" thing. When playing, Duncan has been better.


To be fair to the argument, there is a hint in the more advanced metrics that Gasol had a better season. Gasol was slightly better in WS/48, had a slightly better true shooting percentage, and a significantly higher offensive rating (115 to 107) despite having a considerably lower usage rate (Duncan -- 27.8; Gasol -- 19.2).

With that said, the wonks who've jumped on the Gasol bandwagon seem to defend any choice of Gasol over Duncan this season based on the fact that Gasol played 700 more minutes than Duncan; they seem to argue that it's better to be pretty good for almost 3000 minutes than to be really, really good for about 2000 minutes.

I always like stats, but you're reading those wrong man.

Gasol's lower usage rate is why his TS% is higher. When your usage rate is low, it means you don't heavily contribute to your team's offensive rating too. He contributes, but it's slightly less than the average share for 5 guys on the court (20% would be average). Not exactly impressive for an All NBA 1st teamer.

For reference, James Harden has much higher PPG this year than last, but noticably lower TS%. . .because his USG% went up which made his efficiency go down since he was more of a focal point of the offense in Houston than he was in OKC. So despite Gasol's extra minutes, his stats are still lower in most categories because the guys around him are doing as much work as him. He only does about 1/5th. Duncan on the other hand does over 1/4th of it whenever he's on the court. So he can carry his team offensively at times, while Gasol usually just does a typical, average share.