Melo sucks..Phillip sucks...

[da_suns_fan]

In this series (so far):

137 shot attempts

6 assists (TOTAL)

39% shooting

And that phillip faggot thinks hes ALL-NBA.


QUESTION: WOULD YOU WANT CARMELO ON YOUR TEAM?

[Technique]

Naw would rather have Jared Dudley

[da_suns_fan]

The Knicks can have Beasley if they want. He shoots 39% too and he cost 1/3 as much.

[da_suns_fan]

Naw would rather have Jared Dudley

Youre too much of an idiot to realize the Spurs would take Dudley over Carmelo any day of the week.

[Phillip]

Youre too much of an idiot to realize the Spurs would take Dudley over Carmelo any day of the week.
:rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin

[baseline bum]

Dudley > Melo
Diaw > Lee

Let us proceed

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

Youre too much of an idiot to realize the Spurs would take Dudley over Carmelo any day of the week.
http://i1.kwejk.pl/site_media/obrazki/44079-la-lakers-facepalm.gif

[Technique]

Youre too much of an idiot to realize the Spurs would take Dudley over Carmelo any day of the week.

Imagine if the Spurs had a lineup of Jared Dudley, Shannon Brown, Goran Dragic, Michael Beasley and a viable option for defensive player of the year in Marcin Gortat?

Now that team would really give the Heat a run for their money, yet alone make the playoffs.

[midnightpulp]

I would definitely want Melo on my team because of all the "big games" he's had during the regular season.

[Blake]

Youre too much of an idiot to realize the Spurs would take Dudley over Carmelo any day of the week.

is this an inside joke

[da_suns_fan]

:rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin


http://i1.kwejk.pl/site_media/obrazki/44079-la-lakers-facepalm.gif

When guys like these two are disagreeing with you, you know youre right.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

When guys like these two are disagreeing with you, you know youre right.
ad-hominem

[Technique]

http://theknickswall.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/Jared_Dudleyknicks.jpg

If only.... JR would be playing golf right now.

[midnightpulp]

Melo is a playoff choker, these are things we know, but he's still a better player than Dudley because of all the "big games" he's had during the regular season.

I'd also take Melo over D-Wade. Melo has had 113 30 and 7 rebound regular season "big games" compared to Wade's 67.

[da_suns_fan]

Melo is a playoff choker, these are things we know, but he's still a better player than Dudley because of all the "big games" he's had during the regular season.

I'd also take Melo over D-Wade. Melo has had 113 30 and 7 rebound regular season "big games" compared to Wade's 67.

Man did i do a number on YOU! :lol

[midnightpulp]

Man did i do a number on YOU! :lol

No you didn't. I just like mocking your retardation, like everyone else on the forum.

Dudley>Melo :lmao

[da_suns_fan]

No you didn't. I just like mocking your retardation, like everyone else on the forum.

Dudley>Melo :lmao

I told you i was spoiled by the ridiculous amount of huge games by Barlkey. The 30/15 games that you never saw from Duncan..not any more than the likes of Dirk, that is.

Not impressed bro.

And this forum doesnt realize that

A) Carmelo SUCKS

B) Jared Dudley is fucking great.

http://www.thenbageek.com/players/compare?utf8=%E2%9C%93&player_ids%5B%5D=215&player_ids%5B%5D=264

Im what you call "an intellectual". Im not impressed by your attempts at deflection.

[venky]

Yeah, he's having a rough series in terms of efficiency and rebounding. Still, the Knicks can bounce back and win it. Doesn't matter what you average as long as you win. But if he loses, it will definite Melo's career and haunt him forever.

[Blake]

beh.

back to the NFL forum to take turns on Avante some more I guess.....

[Clipper Nation]

Youre too much of an idiot to realize the Spurs would take Dudley over Carmelo any day of the week.

http://th1138.photobucket.com/albums/n532/LHand87/th_michael-jordan-laughing_zps61223343.gif

[midnightpulp]

I told you i was spoiled by the ridiculous amount of huge games by Barlkey. The 30/15 games that you never saw from Duncan..not any more than the likes of Dirk, that is.

Not impressed bro.

And this forum doesnt realize that

A) Carmelo SUCKS

B) Jared Dudley is fucking great.

http://www.thenbageek.com/players/compare?utf8=%E2%9C%93&player_ids%5B%5D=215&player_ids%5B%5D=264

Im what you call "an intellectual". Im not impressed by your attempts at deflection.


Too bad you weren't spoiled by Barkley's defense. If you were spoiled by his defense like Spurs fans are spoiled by Duncan's, the Suns would probably have a ring.

:lol Losing John Paxson in the biggest game of his career.
:lol Jared Dudley>Carmelo Anthony
:lol Kenneth fuckin' Faried
:lol Nbageek

[da_suns_fan]

Too bad you weren't spoiled by Barkley's defense. If you were spoiled by his defense like Spurs fans are spoiled by Duncan's, the Suns would probably have a ring.

:lol Losing John Paxson in the biggest game of his career.
:lol Jared Dudley>Carmelo Anthony
:lol Kenneth fuckin' Faried
:lol Nbageek

You need to get over it bro. Most of your fellow spurs fans have come to terms with the fact that Duncan was a 22/11 type of guy who didnt put up the huge points/rebound games that Shaq/Barkley etc spoiled us with.

He just didnt. You gotta get over it, bro. Heres another gem for ya (35/15 rebound games..both reg season AND playoffs):


1 Shaquille O'Neal C 68
2 Charles Barkley* F 1 43
3 Hakeem Olajuwon* C 7 40
4 Karl Malone* F 36
5 Patrick Ewing* C 30
6 David Robinson* C 21
7 Tim Duncan F 17


No amount of deflection is ever going to change how Duncan played.

[da_suns_fan]

http://th1138.photobucket.com/albums/n532/LHand87/th_michael-jordan-laughing_zps61223343.gif

Im the KING of "unpopular opinions" on this forum.

I said Richard Jefferson wouldnt fit on the Spurs.

I said the Suns would be better without Shaq.

I said James Harden was the best SG in the league last year (before he was traded to Houston).

My opinions are usually unpopular...but Im usually right.

[midnightpulp]

You need to get over it bro. Most of your fellow spurs fans have come to terms with the fact that Duncan was a 22/11 type of guy who didnt put up the huge points/rebound games that Shaq/Barkley etc spoiled us with.

He just didnt. You gotta get over it, bro. Heres another gem for ya (35/15 rebound games..both reg season AND playoffs):



No amount of deflection is ever going to change how Duncan played.

And no amount of citing "big games" is ever going to change the fact Barkley was a terrible defender who lost John Paxson on the perimeter. Most of your fellow Suns fans have accepted the fact that Barkley was a stat padding choker and didn't spoil us with the great defense and clutch performances that Duncan, Hakeem, and Shaq spoiled us with.

BTW,

:lol Jared Dudley>Melo

[midnightpulp]

Im the KING of "unpopular opinions" on this forum.

I said Richard Jefferson wouldnt fit on the Spurs.

I said the Suns would be better without Shaq.

I said James Harden was the best SG in the league last year (before he was traded to Houston).

My opinions are usually unpopular...but Im usually right.

Way to go out on a limb there, big guy :tu

[da_suns_fan]

And no amount of citing "big games" is ever going to change the fact Barkley was a terrible defender who lost John Paxson on the perimeter. Most of your fellow Suns fans have accepted the fact that Barkley was a stat padding choker and didn't spoil us with the great defense and clutch performances that Duncan, Hakeem, and Shaq spoiled us with.

BTW,

:lol Jared Dudley>Melo

Barkley will be the first one to tell you he didnt play defense. He once said the Suns would have to double his salary if they wanted him to play defense.

But calling him a stat padder shows how butt-hurt you are.

I dont care bro. Fine, hes a stat padder. It was still awesome watching him put up 40 points and 20 rebounds (something Duncan NEVER did). He was just a different type of talent. Duncan is really tall and has great fundamentals but Barkley was just soooooo freakishly gifted.

Got to get over it bro.

[da_suns_fan]

Way to go out on a limb there, big guy :tu

Umm..I said it before Jefferson ever played a game for the Spurs..this has been WELL documented:

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=138218

And if you dont think the idea of dropping Shaq for NOTHING was unpopular, just ask your fellow clown "DuncanOwnsKobe".

Im usually unpopular..im usually right.

[midnightpulp]

I dont care bro. Fine, hes a stat padder.

Thank you. Glad you finally come to that realization.

[hater]

wow the stupidity in this thread is outstanding (quietly steps out)

[da_suns_fan]

I was told "Only a Suns fan could see a negative in the Richard Jefferson trade" by countless Spurs fans.

I was told "Shaq was the Suns best player last year (ONLY Sun to make the all-star team that year)".

Now, I was told that Carmelo Anthony was a top-tier talent and NOT just a "volume shooter" who didnt do ANYTHING for his team if he wasnt scoring.

[da_suns_fan]

Thank you. Glad you finally come to that realization.

Stat padder all the way...he was never boring tho! :lol

[HarlemHeat37]

Half the fans in the NBA have said that about Anthony:lol..it's not a unique opinion..

OP has never countered my points about his precious WoS stats, he stopped replying to me in that thread..he's oblivious to the fact that virtually every credible advanced stat user has disowned the WoS formulas/numbers:lol ..

He also stopped replying to me in the Barkley-Duncan thread, picking and choosing arguments from other posters to reply to, tbh:lol..he ignores every counter argument that he can't successfully rebut, tbh..

I've never been a Carmelo fan, but the premise of this thread is ironic as fuck..OP is mocking Anthony being on all-NBA, yet he had the following players on his all-NBA teams:

- Tyson Chandler
- Kenneth Faried
- Paul George

Paul George has had 1 efficient offensive game out of the 5 so far, but we'll give him the benefit of the doubt, since he has been rebounding well(which is essentially a foundation for WoS numbers)..

Tyson Chandler has been horrendous all series, and Faried has been a non-factor in 4 of the 5 games, too..

If you're going to make a thread boasting about not having Carmelo on your all-NBA teams, you should probably acknowledge your horrible selections, tbh:lol(selections that were horrible, even prior to the playoffs, except for George)..

[midnightpulp]

Umm..I said it before Jefferson ever played a game for the Spurs..this has been WELL documented:

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=138218

And if you dont think the idea of dropping Shaq for NOTHING was unpopular, just ask your fellow clown "DuncanOwnsKobe".

Im usually unpopular..im usually right.

That wasn't your original statement in the post I referenced. You stated, "The Suns would be better without Shaq," which isn't a controversial take at all, considering Shaq's age at the time and the high-tempo the Suns played at. "Dropping him for nothing," implies something totally different, and considering Shaq's contract and trade value at the time, is pretty much stating the obvious.

A lot of people thought Jefferson wouldn't fit with the Spurs. Of course upstairs would overrate him, since there tends to be more homers posting there, but any reasonable basketball fan knew Jefferson might not gel with a defensive minded, down tempo team (which the Spurs still were at the time of his acquisition).

Your takes are nothing extraordinary, and the controversial takes you do have typically veer toward the retarded rather than the insightful.

[midnightpulp]

Half the fans in the NBA have said that about Anthony:lol..it's not a unique opinion..

OP has never countered my points about his precious WoS stats, he stopped replying to me in that thread..he's oblivious to the fact that virtually every credible advanced stat user has disowned the WoS formulas/numbers:lol ..

He also stopped replying to me in the Barkley-Duncan thread, picking and choosing arguments from other posters to reply to, tbh:lol..he ignores every counter argument that he can't successfully rebut, tbh..

I've never been a Carmelo fan, but the premise of this thread is ironic as fuck..OP is mocking Anthony being on all-NBA, yet he had the following players on his all-NBA teams:

- Tyson Chandler
- Kenneth Faried
- Paul George

Paul George has had 1 efficient offensive game out of the 5 so far, but we'll give him the benefit of the doubt, since he has been rebounding well(which is essentially a foundation for WoS numbers)..

Tyson Chandler has been horrendous all series, and Faried has been a non-factor in 4 of the 5 games, too..

If you're going to make a thread boasting about not having Carmelo on your all-NBA teams, you should probably acknowledge your horrible selections, tbh:lol(selections that were horrible, even prior to the playoffs, except for George)..

Doin' work.

:lol Kenneth fuckin' Faried.

[da_suns_fan]

T

A lot of people thought Jefferson wouldn't fit with the Spurs. .

Name one. Show me a post on this forum. Heres what HATER had to say about Richard Jefferson in October 2009:


he is a near allstar, can create his own plays, can defend the bigger guards/SF, can score 20ppg and shoots 40%+ from 3.

yeah, he does not fit our needs at all


http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=136257&page=2


BOOM-SHACKA-LACKA!!!! :lol

[midnightpulp]

Name one. Show me a post on this forum. Heres what HATER had to say about Richard Jefferson in October 2009:



http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=136257&page=2


BOOM-SHACKA-LACKA!!!! :lol

:lmao Referencing hater

[da_suns_fan]

Some takes from Spurs fans angry at me for calling the Jefferson trade a mistake:



he is a near allstar, can create his own plays, can defend the bigger guards/SF, can score 20ppg and shoots 40%+ from 3.

yeah, he does not fit our needs at all :rolleyes


So Suns fan, if you think you are so smart, why aren't you working in some front office somewhere?! Like I mentioned before, Spurs weren't winning with the roster they had last year, even Pop admitted it. But now all the players including coach Pop are feeling good about their chances.... however you being the armchair GM think you know better?! You sound like a closet bandwagon Lakers fan, I guess it still hurts 2 years later huh?!:rollin


You have no idea what you are talking about. I guess that comes with being a Suns fan and watching that garbage team with that garbage front office.

Adding RJ might not be enough to beat the Lakers, but that does not mean it was a mistake.


One of the Spurs problems was scoring droughts, RJ should help alleviate this. While he won't put up big numbers, he'll contribute on both sides of the ball, so big numbers aren't really required. It's not like Bowen and Udoka were scoring and rebounding machines. As far as rebounding, Dice and some young guy named Blair will help that.
As far as next year's free agency, the Spurs most likely weren't going to land an over the top player. Spurs are in a win now mode. RJ will be fine, so will the Spurs.


I dont know about you, but I'll take the 15th best SF (based off of PER) in the league as my 4th man. Hell, chances are, him not being the go to guy will probably help him increase his PER if anything. Nevermind that him and the GREAT Artest are only separated by a mere 2 tenths of a point in that category.


Yea right, wishful thinking on your part. You'll be surprised how just a couple talented players can close the gap significantly.. and add in a healthy Manu. The Lakers bench is going to get exposed big time this year.


There is no need to explain things to someone like you. You can say throw away lines such as "grow up, douche", but the fact of the matter is you are either trolling or you are so dumb with regards to basketball nothing anyone will say can help you.

Being a Suns fan has certainly not helped you.

Just the typical shit Im used to dealing with. Im the bringer of truth.

[HarlemHeat37]

Anthony wouldn't have to shoot as much if 1st team all-NBAer Tyson Chandler could make a hook shot or create a shot for himself, tbh:lol..

[100%duncan]

Youre too much of an idiot to realize the Spurs would take Dudley over Carmelo any day of the week.

Dumb fuck :lmao :lmao :lmao

[da_suns_fan]

Anthony wouldn't have to shoot as much if 1st team all-NBAer Tyson Chandle I could make a hook shot or create a shot for himself, tbh:lol..

Im not pick and choosing...im usually arguing with five or more posters at once (who all claim im wrong). I cant respond to everyone.

Of course, what you havent explained is why wages of wins (i dont know why you keep saying WOS) is so freaking accurate.

THEY SAY Spurs should have won 57.8 games (based off their formula). The Spurs won 58.

http://www.thenbageek.com/teams/sas

Theyre usually not THAT accurate but theyre usually within +/- 2. And remember, their formula says Carmelo anthony sucks and Jared Dudley, Kenneth Faried, Kawhi Leonard, Tyson Chandler etc. are very good.

ITs just idiots like you are too pre-occupied with "Creating your own shot".

Melo created a lot of shots for himself tonight. They just didnt go in.

[HarlemHeat37]

Da Suns Fan also doesn't understand the concept of certain players having multiple responsibilities on their team, rather than just scoring or rebounding or passing, tbh:lol..

[da_suns_fan]

Da Suns Fan also doesn't understand the concept of certain players having multiple responsibilities on their team, rather than just scoring or rebounding or passing, tbh:lol..


I honestly have no clue what to make of this one. Please explain why you think i dont value rebounding/passing yet think also im dumb because tyson chandler cant get his own shot off.

Self-ownage.

[HarlemHeat37]

Im not pick and choosing...im usually arguing with five or more posters at once (who all claim im wrong).

Of course, what you havent explained is why wages of wins (i dont know why you keep saying WOS) is so freaking accurate.

THEY SAY Spurs should have won 57.8 games (based off their formula). The Spurs won 58.

http://www.thenbageek.com/teams/sas

Theyre usually not THAT accurate but theyre usually within +/- 2. And remember, their formula says Carmelo anthony sucks and Jared Dudley, Kenneth Faried, Kawhi Leonard, Tyson Chandler etc. are very good.

ITs just idiots like you are too pre-occupied with "Creating your own shot".

Melo created a lot of shots for himself tonight. They just didnt go in.

They also claim that the Lakers supporting cast was more important than Shaq and Kobe in 2001..

The numbers also had Ramon Sessions as the best PG in the NBA one of the years, and Camby as the #2 overall player in one of the years IIRC..

[HarlemHeat37]

I honestly have no clue what to make of this one. Please explain why you think i dont value rebounding/passing yet think also im dumb because tyson chandler cant get his own shot off.

Self-ownage.

I said you don't value players that have more responsibility on their teams, such as Carmelo needing to carry the load, and the fact that you dismissed that Duncan has to score/anchor a D/rebound, while Barkley didn't have to play defense at all..

You ignore the fact Tyson Chandler has no offensive responsibility, and Faried's only responsibility is rebounding/hustling, tbh..

[da_suns_fan]

They also claim that the Lakers supporting cast was more important than Shaq and Kobe in 2001..

The numbers also had Ramon Sessions as the best PG in the NBA one of the years, and Camby as the #2 overall player in one of the years IIRC..

No they didnt. They looked at playoff stats and said either Shaq or Kobe was number one (in the playoffs) in 2000 and 2001 respectively and Horry was the best in 2002. Considering that was the year he hit that miracle shot against the Kings, Im not THAT surprised. Horry had a great playoffs that year.

[da_suns_fan]

I said you don't value players that have more responsibility on their teams, such as Carmelo needing to carry the load, and the fact that you dismissed that Duncan has to score/anchor a D/rebound, while Barkley didn't have to play defense at all..

You ignore the fact Tyson Chandler has no offensive responsibility, and Faried's only responsibility is rebounding/hustling, tbh..

So youre creating an excuse that Duncan doesnt score a lot of points because he plays defense. I dont care, Ive heard so many excuses ive seriously lost count. Hakeem played defense and scored much more and at a better percentage than Duncan so suck on that.

And if Chandler/Faried have such few responsibilities, why arent other players in the league capable of duplicating their success? Its the "low usage myth". I refer you, again, to the nba geeks article which directly answers your questions on Tyson Chandler and others:

http://www.thenbageek.com/articles/a-low-usage-myth

[da_suns_fan]

I think ive sufficiently owned Harlem Heat with that latest take.

Anyone else?

[da_suns_fan]

To sum up the low usage myth (for those to lazy to click the link):


So it turns out that "only shooting when you have a really good shot" or "only shooting when you have a layup or dunk" isn't really a recipe for success. It's not like Brendan Haywood and Ronny Turiaf didn't get the memo. It's more likely that they simply do not have the skills (or talents, I'm not going to start a nature-vs-nurture argument here) that Tyson Chandler has.

It turns out that just getting yourself a few dunks and layups per game is hard. And please don't argue that it's easy for Chandler because he plays with Melo. Take another look at this list. Kendrick Perkins also has a pretty good teammate getting lots of attention. Ronny Turiaf and Chris Duhan play with Kobe. Lamar Odom can't seem to hit a shot anymore even though he plays with Chris Paul.

[HarlemHeat37]

One of the most famous duos is that of Shaq and Kobe. They powered the Lakers back to prominence. The fact that personal issues shoved Shaq out a few years to early is one of the many pains felt by Laker fans, especially as Shaq would win a ring with another dynamic shooting guard in 2006. Except, the contributions of both Shaq and Kobe are overstated, by a lot! Let’s go back through our the Phil Jackson Laker titles and show what I mean.

I’ve listed all players that put up more wins that Kobe and Shaq in either the regular season or the playoffs. In the regular season the start of the Lakers Kobe-Shaq dynasty was indeed the Kobe and Shaq show. Of course, Shaq was much better than Kobe and Kobe was pretty good himself. The playoffs were a different story. While Shaq kept up his insane play, Kobe dropped from being the second best player on the team and dropped below the likes of Ron Harper and Robert Horry in terms of helping the team win. And it’s worth noting that Kobe’s playoff production was actually below average!


The regular season dynamic kept up. Shaq shouldered most of the load. Kobe was a solid second. We do notice that Shaq slipped a little from his prior dominance. The playoffs is where we have to adjust our dials. Kobe was the best Laker on route to their back to back. However, Derek Fisher outplayed Shaq! Read that again. In Shaq’s second title, his performance was below Derek Fisher’s! And Derek Fisher definitely showed an amazing difference. In the 2001 regular season, Fisher was average. In the playoffs? He played over twice as good as an average player! The reason is surprisingly simple. Fisher shot over 50% from beyond the arc and had a true shooting of almost 70% for the whole playoffs! While Shaq certainly can take credit for getting the Lakers to the playoffs and definitely contributed to their second playoff run, Bryant and Fisher were the top dogs this go around.


Robert Horry! You read that right. Robert Horry overall strong production anchored the final run for Shaq and Kobe. Shaq was still a strong contributor but not top dog. And while he was top four in total wins, it turns out that Kobe’s playoff production was again below average!


If we merely examine the regular season of the Lakers during the Kobe-Shaq era then a very familiar narrative is told. Shaq was an amazing player and Kobe was an excellent sidekick. As the years went on, Shaq declined and Kobe improved until their sad inevitable breakup. But, we know the playoffs are the irrational test we use to define greatness. And here is where the Shaq and Kobe myth crumbles. Shaq was only the top Laker in one of the Lakers’ three titles. Kobe was only a solid contributor in one of the three runs. To be fair, he was the best Laker in that run. And the “role players” of Fisher, Horry and Fox? Yeah, it turns out they were huge “when it mattered”. I can’t tell you how hilarious that is to write. The key we should all note is that the playoffs are very limited number of games. Over 20 games any NBA player can have a great run. Even greats can slump. The playoffs are a great place to find narratives, but may not be the best place to find statistical absolutes. And all I can say is when we examine the Shaq and Kobe playoffs narrative? Well, the numbers don’t back it up.

[midnightpulp]

I think ive sufficiently owned Harlem Heat with that latest take.

Anyone else?

Harlem's blasting your ass pretty good.

Your only "counterargument" is spamming NBAGeek articles.

[da_suns_fan]

Harlem's blasting your ass pretty good.

Your only "counterargument" is spamming NBAGeek articles.

Dude just quoted an article that said the EXACT same thing i just said.

Self ownage again.

[da_suns_fan]

Im going to quote the exact same thing you just said and bold that part that agrees with you the most

Thanks!

[HarlemHeat37]

So youre creating an excuse that Duncan doesnt score a lot of points because he plays defense. I dont care, Ive heard so many excuses ive seriously lost count. Hakeem played defense and scored much more and at a better percentage than Duncan so suck on that.

:lol I've already proven to you that Duncan matches and even surpasses Hakeem in your criteria for playoff "big games"..


And if Chandler/Faried have such few responsibilities, why arent other players in the league capable of duplicating their success? Its the "low usage myth". I refer you, again, to the nba geeks article which directly answers your questions on Tyson Chandler and others:


:lol bro, their results are based on Wins over Par numbers, which is a product of Wins Produced, and I've already explained to you that it's widely regarded as a shitty stat that is entirely based on raw box score numbers..

It's known to have a fetish for rebounding and high shooting %s, so naturally it's biased towards limited players like Chandler and Faried, since they can focus all their energy on their individual responsibilities, they don't have to focus on creating offense(because they're unable to)..

Catching and dunking = high FG%
High FG% + good rebounding numbers = high WP numbers

[HarlemHeat37]

Dude just quoted an article that said the EXACT same thing i just said.

Self ownage again.

So you agree that the Lakers role players were more important than Shaq and Kobe, tbh?..Horry in particular?..

[da_suns_fan]

:lol I've already proven to you that Duncan matches and even surpasses Hakeem in your criteria for playoff "big games"..



:lol bro, their results are based on Wins over Par numbers, which is a product of Wins Produced, and I've already explained to you that it's widely regarded as a shitty stat that is entirely based on raw box score numbers..

It's known to have a fetish for rebounding and high shooting %s, so naturally it's biased towards limited players like Chandler and Faried, since they can focus all their energy on their individual responsibilities, since they don't have to focus on creating offense(because they're unable to)..

Once again, if its as simple as you make it sound, why can no one else do it? If it was easy, then everyone would have rebounding numbers like Faried or shoot the same percentage as Chandler.

But no one does because they cant.

[HarlemHeat37]

Once again, if its as simple as you make it sound, why can no one else do it? If it was easy, then everyone would have rebounding numbers like Faried or shoot the same percentage as Chandler.

But no one does because they cant.

I've never denied that Faried isn't a great rebounder/finisher or that Chandler isn't great at catching and finishing dunks..

My point is that you're severely undervaluing players that are asked to generate the offense for a team..it's much more difficult to produce when an entire defense is game-planning for you, and your system requires you to create for players like Chandler and Faried to excel on offense..

[da_suns_fan]

So you agree that the Lakers role players were more important than Shaq and Kobe, tbh?..Horry in particular?..

When you took the SAT, did you fail reading comprehension?

Show me where it says their role players were "more important" than Shaq and Kobe?

In fact, show me where it says "more important" anywhere in the article. YOU implied that.

[da_suns_fan]

I've never denied that Faried isn't a great rebounder/finisher or that Chandler isn't great at catching and finishing dunks..

My point is that you're severely undervaluing players that are asked to generate the offense for a team..it's much more difficult to produce when an entire defense is game-planning for you, and your system requires you to create for players like Chandler and Faried to excel on offense..

Carmelo doesnt miss so many shots because teams are game planning from him. Durant, Lebron, Chris Paul etc all have teams "game planning" for them.

Carmelo misses so many shots because he takes bad shots. This is why his shooting percentage is so far below the likes of Durant, Lebron, Chris Paul etc.

And if Carmelo is "Creating for others" as you so stupidly claim, then why did he just have a career low in ASSISTS?

http://espn.go.com/nba/player/stats/_/id/1975/carmelo-anthon]

Game. Set. Match.

Youre really not on par with me. Someone needs to bring Findog back.

[da_suns_fan]

Well that was easy.

Anyone else?

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

Umm..I said it before Jefferson ever played a game for the Spurs..this has been WELL documented:

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=138218

And if you dont think the idea of dropping Shaq for NOTHING was unpopular, just ask your fellow clown "DuncanOwnsKobe".

Im usually unpopular..im usually right.
You also said goran dragic doesn't belong in the nba :lol

[da_suns_fan]

You also said goran dragic doesn't belong in the nba :lol

Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh........you'll never let me forget that one, will you?

I said I was "usually" right. Im not ALWAYS right.

[HarlemHeat37]

When you took the SAT, did you fail reading comprehension?

Show me where it says their role players were "more important" than Shaq and Kobe?

In fact, show me where it says "more important" anywhere in the article. YOU implied that.


And all I can say is when we examine the Shaq and Kobe playoffs narrative? Well, the numbers don’t back it up

http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=64&t=1239421

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh........you'll never let me forget that one, will you?

I said I was "usually" right. Im not ALWAYS right.
When you bring me into it as a witness to how awesome your opinions have been, you're asking for it.

[da_suns_fan]

http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=64&t=1239421

I dont know what the realgm link is for but I asked you to show me where the words "more important" were in that article and you failed.

Good night.

[HarlemHeat37]

Carmelo doesnt miss so many shots because teams are game planning from him. Durant, Lebron, Chris Paul etc all have teams "game planning" for them.

Carmelo misses so many shots because he takes bad shots. This is why his shooting percentage is so far below the likes of Durant, Lebron, Chris Paul etc.

And if Carmelo is "Creating for others" as you so stupidly claim, then why did he just have a career low in ASSISTS?

http://espn.go.com/nba/player/stats/_/id/1975/carmelo-anthon]

Game. Set. Match.

Youre really not on par with me. Someone needs to bring Findog back.

:lmao

I'm not sure why your only example is Carmelo, since I'm not a fan of his, but I'll argue anyways..

Anthony's switch to PF has contributed directly to the success of the Knicks system..he doesn't have to pad his assist totals to prove that, there have been several articles/videos displaying Carmelo's impact on the Knicks system..he's one of only two players on their team that can create a shot or create for others, he's usually forced to initiate their offense, putting himself in tough positions..

As Zach Lowe has written:


Anthony gets the no. 4 spot for playing perhaps the best ball of his career and embracing a power forward role that has allowed him to play with a sort of team-first selfishness as a post-up ball dominator. His passing from the post and elbows has been both more willing and sophisticated than in the past, and his 3-point stroke has been brilliant — almost certainly unsustainably so, even if he's taking mostly very good shots from there. His post defense at power forward has been solid, though his back-line rotations behind Tyson Chandler have been inconsistent and often ineffective; he's not a rim protector, after all, and New York's go-to lineups were hemorrhaging points before Melo's recent knee issues.


In a broader sense, Anthony is essential to New York's identity as a small-ball, spread-the-floor team, and not only because he's shooting 3s better than ever — and more than ever. He can drive to the rim against power forwards and brutalize traditional wings in the post; his inside-out passing from the block has reached a new level of unselfish sophistication. Almost every opponent has to contort its defense in uncomfortable ways in order to deal with Carmelo Anthony, power forward.

[HarlemHeat37]

And just to top it off, since Da Suns Fan is delusional, proclaiming victory and ignoring all the severe flaws of his favorite numbers, I'll quote the best poster from my RealGm days, mysticbb..


What? No, that is not at all the critism of WP48. The method is inconsistent, that is one issue, the other issue is that things on a team level do not scale down to the individual level. Berri assumes two specific things he NEVER showed are true. First, that each boxscore metric has an intrinsic value which can be determined by regression, and second that each player can be looked at as if he would be a "team". Neither things were shown by Berri nor are those two things true.

Berri's way of "proving" his metric is completely inconsistent and does not show anything. You can basically take the uniform numbers, adjust them by "position" and then make a team adjustment and the result will be a pretty much "perfect" correlation to the overall team wins. The high correlation is controlled by the adjustments not by the initial unadjusted metric. I showed that in another thread by just taking a scoring rate, adjust that with a team defensive adjustment and I get an even better correlation than Berri. I can make the same steps to "prove" that this metric has some value and get the very same result as Berri. Well, Berri is ignoring two very important biases: selection bias and hindsight bias.
The players are pre-selected by scouts and coaches and will in almost all cases be used in a similar way. No coach will try to make his "enforcer" to be his main "scorer" for example. The players will have similar roles and minutes in consecutive seasons. That just a simple fact. And using hindsight data to predict something which already happened is not something which is really impressive. In fact, we have a better method to predict team wins, pythagorean expectation, than the linear relationship Berri is using.

Berri's method is inconsistent, because at the beginning he is proposing that boxscore entries would have intrinsic value which can be determined by regression. Well, Berri is doing one regression and one regression only, he uses linear regression to determine the win% by using offense and defensive efficiency as independent variables. After that Berri is using league average values to determine the marginal values of each boxscore entry. So far, so good. The issue is that now we get a pretty good differentiation between players, bigs are incredible valuable while smalls are not. At that point Berri is doing something which is completely unscientific, he is introducing an adjustment for somewhat arbritrary positions. Well, if Berri would have stayed with his original hypothesis, he would have just taken the results and would have concluded that bigs are in fact more valuable than smalls. By changing that make the assumption that each "position" would be equally valuable, he also changes the marginal values for each different position. In that way 2pt scoresd by a center are less valuable than 2pt scored by a point guard. Makes no sense to everyone except to Berri and his followers.
That step also is very important in regard to the consistency. Because adjusting for position just means that boxscore entries do not have an intrinsic value, thus we can't use regression in order to determine such value. That makes the whole thing complete bogus.

Well, and at the end Berri does also assume that every player on a specific team has the same impact on the overall team defense. He is basically saying that each player is the same in terms of help or weakside defense. That is obviously complete nonsense, but Berri believes that this is true. That adjustment is rather important, because it controls the correlation between WP48 and overall team wins.

Can we show that all what I wrote is actually true? Yes, we can. Two things in which WP48 would need to perform worse are correlations to lineup performance level and in out of sample tests. WP48 can't say anything about the lineup performance, we can use a coin and will have the same ability to predict lineup performances as WP48. Other boxscore metrics such as Win Shares or my SPM are MUCH better regarding this. The other question is the out of sample test. Even when we take the real values in the respective season for rookies into account WP48 is worse than basically everything else except of PER. WP48 as a tool is worthless in terms of predicting outcome of games in the future.


Which fellow economists? Seriously, Berri is publishing his stuff in low-impact journals, sometimes Berri himself is in the editorial board or was. Berri is basically publishing his stuff without any kind of serious peer-review. He is not cited by any meaningful people and the only citations you can find are those from people in his staff or those who are critizing the method.
We also talk about a group of people which have not a strong mathematical background. They can use SPSS in order to make a regression, that's basically it. The APBR comunity consists of people with a PhD in math, physics, etc., a much stronger mathematical background than that of those economy people. As a geophysicist I had more math in my first 2 semesters than Berri in his whole life, just to make clear what kind of differences we are talking about.

Hollinger does not claim that his method is scientific, but his methods are all open. No idea how you can say otherwise. Rosenbaum has also described his method in great detail and the work by others is influenced by that. The difference between those +/- based people and Berri is: A lot of them are actually really working for teams and thus do not publish their results openly. But with enough math knowledge we can easily reproduce such things. Well, Aaron Barzilai is even kind enough to provide the results for all teams but the Grizzlies, because he works for the Grizzlies.

[HarlemHeat37]

Berri is by far the most criticized "statistician" by the numbers community..he's known as a fascist that would ban posters that opposed his views from his forums..

NBA GMs openly based his formulas and beliefs, tbh:lol..

Anybody that knows anything about advanced stats bashes WoW advocates and labels them as complete idiots, tbh:lol..

[HarlemHeat37]

And that is the reason I think Berri is the one with the least amount of basketball knowledge. The guy just has no clue. It is not about creating a shot, every shot attempt even a bad shot gives a team a better chance for a basket (and winning) than a turnover. What is the point? Not shooting means a shotclock violation, the result will be a turnover for a team. Even bad shots have a higher probability to went in than every turnover. Not accounting for that is either complete ignorant or just blantant stupid. Berri is both in my eyes.

On another note: The variable in the boxscore are not competetly independent, which makes a regression analysis a tough job. That the amount on rebounds depends on the amount of missed shots is a very important thing. Taking into account what I wrote before, it becomes rather clear why his marginal values overrate rebounding.
It also happens that the boxscore is biased towards offense. Any boxscore tells you more about individual offense than defense. He runs into the same problem as Hollinger. Well, Hollinger's PER shows a better correlation towards winning than WP, if you take out the postional adjustment and the team factor for WP. What is the point? Berri is cheating to get a better correllation to winning. That might work on a team basis, but if you go down on the player basis your results become flawed.
There is no way to adjust correctly for positions in basketball, because nearly every player (except of some point guards and centers) don't play an explicit position anymore.

@Doctor MJ

It is not that easy to give credits for assists correctly. I choosed a way to do it on a player-by-player basis on each team. That means every assists gets 1/2 of the value a team usually scores with a field goal. On the other side I subtract those points from the scorer via team ast%.

To show the effect:
PER has Amare Stoudemire with 22.6 ranked 12th right now and Steve Nash with 21.7 is 16th. My PRA (just simple player rating, nothing fancy at all) has Steve Nash at 7th with 16.7 (league average is 10) and Stoudemire with 14.8 at 17th. Comparing those things with the +/- numbers my boxscore rating seems to make a better job. Of course the rating has the same flaws, underrate individual defenders who are not producing blocked shots, steals or rebounds.

Btw: Good example with Marcus Camby. When a boxscore rating is so way off in comparison to +/- numbers, it should definitely be reviewed.

[HarlemHeat37]

... because Berri sets the threshold efficiency for scoring at league average, the sum of Wins Produced by scoring in the league is zero. Thats right, Berri's metric says that throughout the entire league scoring did not contribute to any wins, that all 1230 wins in the league were created acquiring possession of the ball.


So, unless players are shooting better than the league average -- fewer than half of all players do this -- their scoring effort actually counts negatively in their WP totals.

Rebounds are all good, however. There's nothing subtracted for the boards you didn't secure. You might think everything below 1/10 of available rebounds -- average by definition -- would be subtracted. But no. Because everything must revolve around the mantra, Points are Overvalued, rebounding by default rises to the top of the heap.

In this scenario, guards have almost no value. They only get boosted by their 'positional adjustment'. If you are a G-F who doesn't rebound much, you better hope he calls you a G.

[midnightpulp]

Harlem went Armageddon ITT.

[HarlemHeat37]

Da Suns Fan believes that Robert Horry was more important than Kobe and Shaq in 2002:lmao..

I hope that he has been enlightened by the information I just provided for him, maybe now he will understand the severe flaws of WoW, the foundation of all his arguments:lol..

Following Dave Berri is equivalent to following Alex Jones, tbh..it's for delusional fanboys that want to feel special by having theories and opinions that differ from the logical person's perception:lol..

[100%duncan]

Damn Harlem went ham on that faggot.

Dudley>Melo :lmao

[DMC]

Imagine if the Spurs had a lineup of Jared Dudley, Shannon Brown, Goran Dragic, Michael Beasley and a viable option for defensive player of the year in Marcin Gortat?

Now that team would really give the Heat a run for their money, yet alone make the playoffs.

What the fuck does that even mean?

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

Here's another awesome prediction where DSF says the 2008 Suns will win a championship (:lmao:lmao:lmao)


The Best defense in the league could only get a 2-2 tie with Phoenix (with two of three to go in Phoenix).

And now Horry, Bowen, Barry, Duncan, Ginboili, Finley etc. are a year older.

I think the Suns take it this year.


EDIT: and another one

The Suns just went from six extremely talented guys to seven. Kurt Thomas' contributions have been grossly overstated by everyone on this board and JMJ is just dumb enough to believe what all of you continue to say to each other (maybe he should leave SpursTalk for a while).

You don't have to believe that the Suns are deeper this year. I don't care.

I can just tell you how much better it feels when D'Antoni signals Grant Hill to come in rather than James Jones. Thus far, Brian Skinner has played much better than anyone (including all Suns fans) anticipated. Its just a matter of time before he gets his lineups figured out and then the rest of the league if fucked.

Its gonna be another great year for the Suns.....and this year they're gonna take it all.

[Blake]

Youre too much of an idiot to realize the Spurs would take Dudley over Carmelo any day of the week.

so this is a real take? are you saying this because of salary cap issues?

I skimmed through the tldrs but I still didn't see any legit reasons the Spurs would take Dudley over Melo.

[midnightpulp]

Here's another awesome prediction where DSF says the 2008 Suns will win a championship (:lmao:lmao:lmao)




EDIT: and another one


:lmao

[da_suns_fan]

Here's another awesome prediction where DSF says the 2008 Suns will win a championship (:lmao:lmao:lmao)




EDIT: and another one


Both of those takes were before:

1) Grant Hill got injured

2) They traded Marion for Shaq (which i was sooooooooooooo against i thought it was a joke when i first heard it). Suns were in first place when they actually made that trade.

3) I had no idea the Lakers would get Gasol for Kwame Brown.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

Both of those takes were before:

1) Grant Hill got injured
:lmao:lmao right because Grant Hill injuries are such a rare occurrence.

[Fergie The Florists]

:lmao:lmao right because Grant Hill injuries are such a rare occurrence.

You gunna do this far me... or im gunna clip ya nuts. Like i clipped ya daddies

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

The Suns were also in 2nd place in the West at the time of the Shaq trade and it was completely due to an easy 1st half schedule. They had a below .500 record against other western conference playoff teams at the time, iirc it was something like 9-14 against the WC playoff teams they played. It was painfully obvious the team was going nowhere when they made the Shaq trade and it's intellectually dishonest to pretend otherwise.

:lmao predicting the 2008 Suns would win a title

[HarlemHeat37]

:lmao:lmao right because Grant Hill injuries are such a rare occurrence.

:lol Wages of Wins didn't factor Hill's injury history, tbh..

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

You gunna do this far me... or im gunna clip ya nuts. Like i clipped ya daddies
:crydon't talk about my father:cry

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

:lol Wages of Wins didn't factor Hill's injury history, tbh..
:lmao

[HarlemHeat37]

The Suns were also in 2nd place in the West at the time of the Shaq trade and it was completely due to an easy 1st half schedule. They had a below .500 record against other western conference playoff teams at the time, iirc it was something like 9-14 against the WC playoff teams they played. It was painfully obvious the team was going nowhere when they made the Shaq trade and it's intellectually dishonest to pretend otherwise.

:lmao predicting the 2008 Suns would win a title

:lol Wages of Wins probably predicted it, tbh..

The same Wages of Wins that had Ramon Sessions as the best PG in the NBA in 2009, Landry Fields as a top 3 SF 2 years ago, and predicted the Raptors would be a 5th or 6th seed following the Gay trade..

[da_suns_fan]

The Suns were also in 2nd place in the West at the time of the Shaq trade and it was completely due to an easy 1st half schedule. They had a below .500 record against other western conference playoff teams at the time, iirc it was something like 9-14 against the WC playoff teams they played. It was painfully obvious the team was going nowhere when they made the Shaq trade and it's intellectually dishonest to pretend otherwise.

:lmao predicting the 2008 Suns would win a title

Im actually curious as to when the date was...but I dont care. Predicting the team with the first (or second) best record will win the title is pretty tame.

[100%duncan]

Here's another awesome prediction where DSF says the 2008 Suns will win a championship (:lmao:lmao:lmao)

:lol Brian Skinner
:lol Ancient Grant Hill
:lol "take it all"
:lol D'Antoni



EDIT: and another one

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

Here's another quote about how Leandro Barbosa and Raja Bell made it so the 2008 Suns didn't need Joe Johnson (:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao)


The thing is, with Barbosa and Raja Bell, we don't need Joe Johnson. The Suns have plenty of talent in the backcourt don't they?

[da_suns_fan]

:lol Wages of Wins probably predicted it, tbh..

The same Wages of Wins that had Ramon Sessions as the best PG in the NBA in 2009, Landry Fields as a top 3 SF 2 years ago, and predicted the Raptors would be a 5th or 6th seed following the Gay trade..

You actually have that about as backwards as you can possibly get it.

THIS IS THE MOST UN-INFORMED POST IVE EVER READ.

That is all.

[midnightpulp]

Here's another quote about how Leandro Barbosa and Raja Bell made it so the 2008 Suns didn't need Joe Johnson (:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao)

:lmao

[da_suns_fan]

wages of wins and rudy gay to toronto:

http://wagesofwins.com/2013/01/30/gay-old-times-in-toronto/

Not sure what else to say except harlem is really, really confused.

[HarlemHeat37]

You actually have that about as backwards as you can possibly get it.

THIS IS THE MOST UN-INFORMED POST IVE EVER READ.

That is all.

http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=1225327

I meant prior to the Rudy Gay trade*..which is even worse, since Gay helped improve the Raptors for the first few weeks following the transaction..

Bro, are you going to study the material I provided for you, tbh?..

It'll take you 10 minutes to read it + a few hours searching for credible rebuttals + a few more hours to reevaluate your life, tbh..it's going to be a long night, get on it, tbh..

[da_suns_fan]

Here's another quote about how Leandro Barbosa and Raja Bell made it so the 2008 Suns didn't need Joe Johnson (:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao)

Why is that funny?

They won 32 out 34 games in 2007 with Bell and LB in the backcourt.

I think i was spot on.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

Why is that funny?

They won 32 out 34 games in 2007 with Bell and LB in the backcourt.

I think i was spot on.
How well did Raja Bell and Barbosa do in the 2007 and 2008 playoffs against the Spurs when the team was in dire need of a perimeter player other than Nash who could create off the dribble?

To say that post regarding the 2008 Suns turned out to be spot on is hilarious. Yes, I guess it was spot on in the sense that if your goal is to lose in the 1st round of the playoffs, Barbosa and Bell are excellent players.

[Blake]

Popovic is "coach of the year" and its not even close:

http://www.thenbageek.com/teams/sas?direction=desc&sort=%22WP48%22

He has SIX guys playing at a high level and even managed to get good production from Boris Diaw again.

hey! what's up man! good to hear from you man!

[DMC]

Why is that funny?

They won 32 out 34 games in 2007 with Bell and LB in the backcourt.

I think i was spot on.
Are you another Mouse troll? This is as stupid as the Cosmored shit.

[Clipper Nation]

da_suns_fag's meltdown is even more entertaining than the Thunderefs' loss, tbh :lol

[da_suns_fan]

How well did Raja Bell and Barbosa do in the 2007 and 2008 playoffs against the Spurs when the team was in dire need of a perimeter player other than Nash who could create off the dribble?

To say that post regarding the 2008 Suns turned out to be spot on is hilarious. Yes, I guess it was spot on in the sense that if your goal is to lose in the 1st round of the playoffs, Barbosa and Bell are excellent players.

They made it past first round in 2006 and 2007.

You really are bad at this.

[100%duncan]

http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=1225327

I meant prior to the Rudy Gay trade*..which is even worse, since Gay helped improve the Raptors for the first few weeks following the transaction..

Bro, are you going to study the material I provided for you, tbh?..

It'll take you 10 minutes to read it + a few hours searching for credible rebuttals + a few more hours to reevaluate your life, tbh..it's going to be a long night, get on it, tbh..

Easy on dat bleeding ass HH. :lol suns fag

[Latarian Milton]

bell is a decent role player with solid defense and the ability to hit cheap 3's, the prime version of him was the closest thing to chris bowen back then imho. _'antoni just never has any idea how to use those defense-oriented players properly imho

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

They made it past first round in 2006 and 2007.

You really are bad at this.
You made that post at the beginning of the 2008 season.

You're really bad at predicting how well the 2008 Suns are/were.

[da_suns_fan]

You made that post at the beginning of the 2008 season.

You're really bad at predicting how well the 2008 Suns are/were.

You had to go back five years to try and find a post of mine that was "wrong" and the best you could do is that i didnt correctly pick the champion at the beginning of the season (I picked my favorite team).

Not impressed.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

You had to go back five years to try and find a post of mine that was "wrong" and the best you could do is that i didnt correctly pick the champion at the beginning of the season (I picked my favorite team).

Not impressed.
You picked a team to win a championship that lost in the 1st round.

Pretty retarded, using the "favorite team!" excuse just means your a homer who's clouded by bias.

[AaronY]

God, I love a good meltdown

[Blake]

God, I love a good meltdown

yessir. I think today has been a solid day for them. :tu

[HarlemHeat37]

I hope this nigga is reading the material, tbh..I'll have some questions for him after he reads it..

I'm not sure what he's going to do if Houston completes the series comeback, btw..on one side, he has Harden, while on the other side, it would mean OKC went 1-4 without the cancerous Westbrook..it will be interesting(although OKC will win the series, tbh)..

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

I hope this nigga is reading the material, tbh..I'll have some questions for him after he reads it..

I'm not sure what he's going to do if Houston completes the series comeback, btw..on one side, he has Harden, while on the other side, it would mean OKC went 1-4 without the cancerous Westbrook..it will be interesting(although OKC will win the series, tbh)..
He's picking the Suns to win the west :lol

Brian Skinner will fortify Nash, tbh.

[Floyd Pacquiao]

:lol everybody taking turns on da_suns _fan

http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view6/2238617/rodney-king-o.gif

[Splits]

Brian Skinner will fortify Nash, tbh.

:lmao Skinner reference. I went to school with that nig.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

:lmao Skinner reference. I went to school with that nig.
I remember how much Suns fans were orgasming out of their asses in 2008 when he had a game when he hit a 3.

"Hey's WAAAAAAAY better than Kurt Thomas!"
"He's that big man we've been missing!"

[Brazil]

The Dudley > Melo must be a top 3 retarded x > y on ST tbh

I'd say
1. Diaw > Lee
2. Dudley > Melo
3. Manu > Dirk

[HarlemHeat37]

I sincerely hope he replies, tbh..

[Clipper Nation]

I remember how much Suns fans were orgasming out of their asses in 2008 when he had a game when he hit a 3.

"Hey's WAAAAAAAY better than Kurt Thomas!"
"He's that big man we've been missing!"
Seriously? That guy had two stints with the Clippers and the only thing I remember about him is his two-tone beard :lol

http://i.imgur.com/ImqZKci.jpg

[da_suns_fan]

I sincerely hope he replies, tbh..

To which one?

[da_suns_fan]

I have no interest in debating whether or not Brian Skinner sucks or whether or not i should have been able to predict the 2008 nba champion.

As I have shown, most of my opinions are unpopular but are usually proven correct. Whether its Jefferson, Shaq, Melo, Harden etc.

And yes, I would take jared dudley (or faried or leonard etc) over carmelo any day of the week. If you guys dont agree, thats your opinion. But your opinion proves youre fucking clueless.

[Blake]

And yes, I would take jared dudley (or faried or leonard etc) over carmelo any day of the week. If you guys dont agree, thats your opinion. But your opinion proves youre fucking clueless.

true or false: the Knicks still get the 2 seed if they had Dud instead of Melo.

[Blake]

And yes, I would take jared dudley (or faried or leonard etc) over carmelo any day of the week. If you guys dont agree, thats your opinion. But your opinion proves youre fucking clueless.

true or false: the Knicks still get the 2 seed if they had Dud instead of Melo.

[Clipper Nation]

Youre too much of an idiot to realize the Spurs would take Dudley over Carmelo any day of the week.

:lmao Even funnier now than it was back then, with Dudley being the biggest scrub in the league....