Scott Brooks is getting exposed

[phxspurfan]

...as the shitty coach that he is. His game plans had to get simpler with the loss of The Chimp, and he went the opposite way. Lol at getting cute in the 4th quarter at home trying that Hack Asik crap when his jumpshooting team needed rhythm to come back. Dude challenges VDN and D'Antoni for the worst decisions and the only reason he hasnt been exposed yet is because of the refs and miraculous shots. OKC will lose this series.

[exstatic]

EJ and the guys were talking about the fact that OKC almost NEVER gets an easy shot. They rely too much on individual creation, and when one of their creators goes down, they're up shit creek.

[HI-FI]

He strikes me as someone who is best as an assistant. Still, I want him to remain because I'd hate to see OKC with a good coach, especially with the ref help.

[100%duncan]

He strikes me as someone who is best as an assistant. Still, I want him to remain because I'd hate to see OKC with a good coach, especially with the ref help.

This. :lol

[HI-FI]

In the games that Coach Bud was HC, he came across much more competent than Brooks. Knowing OKC, i wouldn't be shocked if they try to make an offer to Bud if they fire Brooks.

[TampaDude]

Watch both Boston and Houston rally from down 0-3 to win their series. That would be hilarious! :lol

[spurs1990]

Where did 'The Chimp' moniker come from? Is it a spurstalk creation bc never heard it before.

[Mel_13]

Doesn't seem so smart without Harden and Westbrook.

[letmk]

Doesn't seem so smart without Harden and Westbrook.

As a Spurs fan, of course I welcome this move. But till today, I still don't understand it even assuming Westbrook is not injured.

You just don't trade your #2/3 player who is 23 and hasn't hit his peak yet, unless they have problems with your #1 player, which they did not. As good as Harden was, he even accepted the bench role. All he need is just a couple more million dollars a year. That's very reasonable.

Plus, their major opponent is the Heat, which means Perkins can be amnestied if they can't afford all of those players. LeBron them had to plot together to build a big 3, yet OKC just gave up their own big 3. That negates all the good moves Presti has made in the past.

[xellos88330]

Where did 'The Chimp' moniker come from? Is it a spurstalk creation bc never heard it before.

Monkeyball - Low IQ style of basketball involving an over reliance on physical attributes and dunk shots to play the game. Examples of monkeyballers: DeAndre Jordan, Dwight Howard, Blake Griffin, Russell Westbrook (It doesn't help that Westbrook does have ape-ish facial features)

[Mel_13]

As a Spurs fan, of course I welcome this move. But till today, I still don't understand it even assuming Westbrook is not injured.

You just don't trade your #2/3 player who is 23 and hasn't hit his peak yet, unless they have problems with your #1 player, which they did not. As good as Harden was, he even accepted the bench role. All he need is just a couple more million dollars a year. That's very reasonable.

Plus, their major opponent is the Heat, which means Perkins can be amnestied if they can't afford all of those players. LeBron them had to plot together to build a big 3, yet OKC just gave up their own big 3. That negates all the good moves Presti has made in the past.

People were too quick to proclaim Presti a genius. Trading Harden was a terrible move, even more so when you look at the pitiful package they got in return.

[Trainwreck2100]

EJ and the guys were talking about the fact that OKC almost NEVER gets an easy shot. They rely too much on individual creation, and when one of their creators goes down, they're up shit creek.
also when the refs don't bail them out they up shit creek

[rmt]

Monkeyball - Low IQ style of basketball involving an over reliance on physical attributes and dunk shots to play the game. Examples of monkeyballers: DeAndre Jordan, Dwight Howard, Blake Griffin, Russell Westbrook (It doesn't help that Westbrook does have ape-ish facial features)

I wouldn't call Westbrook monkey ball - guy's got a sweet jump shot. The others - sorry that their teams have to pay a bunch for them because of the scarcity of good big men.

[xellos88330]

I wouldn't call Westbrook monkey ball - guy's got a sweet jump shot. The others - sorry that their teams have to pay a bunch for them because of the scarcity of good big men.

He has definitely improved his jumper over the years ala Parker, but it is nowhere near as consistent. I still consider him a monkeyballer because when he doesn't know how to take what the defense gives him. He will force the issue when there is no need to. If you hit consecutive jumpers (3 or more), don't start driving the lane if the defense is still giving you the jumper and isn't letting you drive. That is low IQ basketball.

[xellos88330]

Is there any white monkeyballers?

White and monkey don't belong in the same sentence.

[sananspursfan21]

People were too quick to proclaim Presti a genius. Trading Harden was a terrible move, even more so when you look at the pitiful package they got in return.

Well as much of a Thunder basher as I am, that was actually not a bad move. From my understanding, they couldn't agree on a reasonable contract, so the thunder actually got something out of him instead of letting him walk for nothing. I knew/still know that OKC can't keep all that talent for long before egos take over. They drafted well and wont be able to afford to pay everybody. Ibakas next IMHO, this team's star power will eventually split up, Atleast some of it. But the harden move wasn't bad because they would have lost him anyway

[letmk]

Well as much of a Thunder basher as I am, that was actually not a bad move. From my understanding, they couldn't agree on a reasonable contract, so the thunder actually got something out of him instead of letting him walk for nothing. I knew/still know that OKC can't keep all that talent for long before egos take over. They drafted well and wont be able to afford to pay everybody. Ibakas next IMHO, this team's star power will eventually split up, Atleast some of it. But the harden move wasn't bad because they would have lost him anyway

If they had to trade Harden, this one with the Rockets is not a bad one. But the problem is they didn't need to go there in the first place. When the discrepancy is just money, that's the least you need to worry about. Unless Harden had beef with Durant and wanted to be Alpha dog like Marbury with KG, you don't trade him away.

From the Bulls to the Lakers to the Spurs, you don't see a team winning championships by trading away great players for good players plus draft picks. That kind of move can only help you when you are still in the growing process, and you trade away your aged-superstar for some future up-and-coming players. But OKC just went to the Finals, and Harden is 23 which means he is the present and the future.

[Mel_13]

Well as much of a Thunder basher as I am, that was actually not a bad move. From my understanding, they couldn't agree on a reasonable contract, so the thunder actually got something out of him instead of letting him walk for nothing. I knew/still know that OKC can't keep all that talent for long before egos take over. They drafted well and wont be able to afford to pay everybody. Ibakas next IMHO, this team's star power will eventually split up, Atleast some of it. But the harden move wasn't bad because they would have lost him anyway

That's not at all what happened. There was plenty of discussion back at the time of trade, but they could have easily kept Harden. They were eventually going to have to let one of their higher paid players go, but it didn't have to be Harden and it didn't have to happen when it did. Harden is currently in the last year of his rookie contract. If they did nothing at all, he would have been a restricted free agent this summer. There was zero danger that he could walk with OKC getting nothing in return. They had plenty of options besides selling Harden for pennies on the dollar.

[Legacy]

:lmao The most useless & horrible "Hack-job" EVER! :lmao

[xellos88330]

I thought there might be a albino monkeyballer out there somewhere.

Jan Vesely has potential, but he can't really get minutes to prove that white can monkeyball too.

[hater]

I wouldn't call Westbrook monkey ball - guy's got a sweet jump shot. The others - sorry that their teams have to pay a bunch for them because of the scarcity of good big men.

When someone inbounds the ball from under your basket to you and you dribble and shoot a brick from 36 feet in the middle of the 2nd quarter. You are a monkeyballer.

[hater]

Is there any white monkeyballers?

Blake griffin. Jayson white chocolate williams.

[weeks]

Is there any white monkeyballers?
naw
because it's a racist term
can't stand it personally but it's an open forum

[Mel_13]

From the Daily Thunder:

But let’s look at went horribly wrong tonight. Start with the painfully stupid decision to not just Hack-a-Turk, as Kevin McHale dubbed it, but to stick with it despite cutting the Rocket lead to six with 4:16 left. Asik made nine of his 14 free throw attempts in the fourth, giving the Rockets nine free points. After OKC had it to two possessions with four minutes left, the Thunder continued with the strategy, and gave the Rockets three added free points.

For a team that preaches defense, calls it their backbone, and was pretty damn good at it in the regular season (top five in defensive efficiency), the Thunder sure as hell didn’t trust it tonight. Yes, James Harden and the Rockets were scorching the Thunder on that end of the floor. And yes, Omer Asik isn’t a very good foul shooter (56 percent). But instead of forcing the youngest team in the postseason to execute in the halfcourt in an elimination game, on the road, with 18,000 rapid blue-shirted people screaming their faces off, Scott Brooks sucked the life out of the arena and put the Asik at the line four more times.

http://dailythunder.com/2013/05/thunder-fall-one-step-closer-to-bad-history-107-100/

[Obstructed_View]

Is there any white monkeyballers?

Half of Blake Griffin.

[Obstructed_View]

My favorite moment from tonight's game: James Harden is isolated on Serge Ibaka - OUT OF A TIME OUT - and Chris Webber says "This is great, it shows the confidence in a great defender". No sooner does he finish that sentence than Harden backs up for a three - POP. :lmao

Irony on display: The OKC crowd chanting "Ref you suck" because Kevin Durant was actually called for two legitimate fouls in a row, one on offense, one on defense.

[temujin]

From the Daily Thunder:

But let’s look at went horribly wrong tonight. Start with the painfully stupid decision to not just Hack-a-Turk, as Kevin McHale dubbed it, but to stick with it despite cutting the Rocket lead to six with 4:16 left. Asik made nine of his 14 free throw attempts in the fourth, giving the Rockets nine free points. After OKC had it to two possessions with four minutes left, the Thunder continued with the strategy, and gave the Rockets three added free points.

For a team that preaches defense, calls it their backbone, and was pretty damn good at it in the regular season (top five in defensive efficiency), the Thunder sure as hell didn’t trust it tonight. Yes, James Harden and the Rockets were scorching the Thunder on that end of the floor. And yes, Omer Asik isn’t a very good foul shooter (56 percent). But instead of forcing the youngest team in the postseason to execute in the halfcourt in an elimination game, on the road, with 18,000 rapid blue-shirted people screaming their faces off, Scott Brooks sucked the life out of the arena and put the Asik at the line four more times.

http://dailythunder.com/2013/05/thunder-fall-one-step-closer-to-bad-history-107-100/

Presti has a lot of work to do with the OKC press.

You would never read anything remotely like this in a Pop-controlled newspaper.
And it's not because he never makes mistakes.

[Kidd K]

As a Spurs fan, of course I welcome this move. But till today, I still don't understand it even assuming Westbrook is not injured.

You just don't trade your #2/3 player who is 23 and hasn't hit his peak yet, unless they have problems with your #1 player, which they did not. As good as Harden was, he even accepted the bench role. All he need is just a couple more million dollars a year. That's very reasonable.

Plus, their major opponent is the Heat, which means Perkins can be amnestied if they can't afford all of those players. LeBron them had to plot together to build a big 3, yet OKC just gave up their own big 3. That negates all the good moves Presti has made in the past.

I completely agree with your points on Harden (I was already making them before the season started tbh, because I already felt Harden was better than Westbrook LAST season). . .but I just want to point out that it was actually only an extra one million dollars a year that OKC balked on, not 2 mil. They threw away Harden who is clearly going to be the best SG in the league very soon as Wade and Kobe continue to decline, for Martin who has never been a star. . .all for saving one mil a year.

As for their big 3, let's face it, they got lucky as fuck that they were so fortunate to get that many high draft picks in a row. Yeah they tanked, but they got all the lottery balls to bounce their way too. OKC being so good was a fluke to begin with. Hard not to be that good when your core is made up of VERY high lottery picks all gotten in a row. They will never be the same now. The older their core guys get, the more they're gonna have to pay them which means the worse their team around them gets.

They threw away a big 4-5 year contending window by trading Harden all to save a few million bucks. Ultra stupidity.

[Chinook]

Is there any white monkeyballers?

Josh McRoberts

[Pasta Batman]

People were too quick to proclaim Presti a genius. Trading Harden was a terrible move, even more so when you look at the pitiful package they got in return.

I don't know. The price tag was high. Spurs often stayed away from paying. It's just their stars never pushed them enough. I don't know... it's quite interesting.. Presti is still damn smart and good.

[szkorhetz]

Last year Brooks out coached Pop, by a lot. Certainly, trading his second best player wasn't his choice..

[100%duncan]

I don't know. The price tag was high. Spurs often stayed away from paying. It's just their stars never pushed them enough. I don't know... it's quite interesting.. Presti is still damn smart and good.

Trading your 2nd best player and arguably the best creator out of the 3 (KD, RW, JH) for Kevin Fucking Martin is not smart and good.

[PingPong]

Is there any white monkeyballers?

Aaron Baynes? :lol

[TJastal]

That's not at all what happened. There was plenty of discussion back at the time of trade, but they could have easily kept Harden. They were eventually going to have to let one of their higher paid players go, but it didn't have to be Harden and it didn't have to happen when it did. Harden is currently in the last year of his rookie contract. If they did nothing at all, he would have been a restricted free agent this summer. There was zero danger that he could walk with OKC getting nothing in return. They had plenty of options besides selling Harden for pennies on the dollar.

I read somewhere Harden slept with Ibakas girlfriend and that caused a major rift between the two players. Dunno if it was true or where I heard it.

[rmt]

Presti has a lot of work to do with the OKC press.

You would never read anything remotely like this in a Pop-controlled newspaper.
And it's not because he never makes mistakes.

I prefer freedom of the press where the media can question why Splitter sat on the bench until game 4 vs Randolph and Gasol instead of the frightened impostors in SA afraid of asking real questions. Don't think Brook has done enough to warrant getting fired - he's not responsible for Westbrook's injury. To change mid-series after playing a certain way for years is difficult to do. Presti needs to send Ibaka to Hakeem every summer to learn some post moves so he can create his own shot.

[Mel_13]

I don't know. The price tag was high. Spurs often stayed away from paying. It's just their stars never pushed them enough. I don't know... it's quite interesting.. Presti is still damn smart and good.

The Spurs went over the tax threshhold several times, even after multiple championships. OKC has been making money since they arrived up there and they haven't won a single title. They were not going to pay the tax this year (the trade actually increased payroll this year), and they had several options to avoid the tax in the future that didn't include trading Harden.

[Mel_13]

Presti has a lot of work to do with the OKC press.

You would never read anything remotely like this in a Pop-controlled newspaper.
And it's not because he never makes mistakes.

Never going to happen. At least not until the team wins a championship or two.

[pgardn]

Josh McRoberts
The Birdman is the quintessential monkey baller IMO.

Should not have anything to do with color if you take him into account and the definition is as first stated.

If you start going racist with the term, then Andre Miller is white.

[DarrinS]

Is there any white monkeyballers?

Birdman

[RobinsontoDuncan]

Monkeyball - Low IQ style of basketball involving an over reliance on physical attributes and dunk shots to play the game. Examples of monkeyballers: DeAndre Jordan, Dwight Howard, Blake Griffin, Russell Westbrook (It doesn't help that Westbrook does have ape-ish facial features)

you are incredibly racist.

[Bruno]

I think coaches impact in a playoffs series is minimal. Hack-an-Asik wasn't maybe the best move but it isn't what cost thunder this game. Thunder were down by about 10 points before doing it. And the whole he got out-coached talk is 99%of the time pure BS.

A lot of elements of OKC got way more exposed than Brooks:
- Presti for the atrocious Harden trade and his inability to give Thunder quality depth.
- Perkins for being useless as soon as there isn't a dominant low post scorer in the other team.
- Kevin Martin for choking while he should play a bigger role with Westbrook out.
- Abaka's defense. Him being 3rd in the DPOY vote is a joke. He is just too naive/dumb to be a great defender.

And Thunder struggling without Westbrook isn't a surprise. Even with all his flaws, he is a damn good player that was really important for them.

[exstatic]

People were too quick to proclaim Presti a genius. Trading Harden was a terrible move, even more so when you look at the pitiful package they got in return.

Not Presti's choice. He's given a budget by ownership. Clay Bennett's fault, tbh.

That package is also incomplete. They have a top ten pick in June.

[exstatic]

Is there any white monkeyballers?

Birdman.

[z0sa]

Scott Brooks' decision making does not compare with trading Harden. Who cares if he leaves after you win a title?

[therealtruth]

People were too quick to proclaim Presti a genius. Trading Harden was a terrible move, even more so when you look at the pitiful package they got in return.

You're acting like it was his decision to make. If his owner tells him he can't spend over a certain amount he has to work within those numbers.

[Gospursel]

naw
because it's a racist term
can't stand it personally but it's an open forum

This, tbh

[Captivus]

OKC doesn’t have system. So when Russell went down, the backup doesn’t know what to do.
They rely too much on isolation plays and hope for the foul.

I’ve hear Shaq said this a million times about D12, and I think it applies to Ibaka and Perkins, they don’t have a "go-to" move. OKC can’t assume Ibaka will hit jumpshots like he did against the Spurs last year.

Someone posted yesterday that if OKC don’t starts winning, the refs are going to stop helping them. (he didn’t say exactly like that...).
I agree, too many cries babies, Durant always making those faces, raising his arms, getting techs...refs are going to get tired.

And be careful, because the Houston Rockets can easily became a league favorite any moment. If they defeat OKC....mmmm....Durant/Westbrook/Ibaka is nice for marketing, but Harden(bear), Lin(Asia), Asik(Europe), and many others…is also interesting.
The Rockets are a young team and they will only play better next year, and if they can get 1 more guy, its over OKC, Rockets will replace you...talk about that Harden trade!!!

Ok...I may be overreacting...

[Dex]

My favorite moment from tonight's game: James Harden is isolated on Serge Ibaka - OUT OF A TIME OUT - and Chris Webber says "This is great, it shows the confidence in a great defender". No sooner does he finish that sentence than Harden backs up for a three - POP. :lmao

Irony on display: The OKC crowd chanting "Ref you suck" because Kevin Durant was actually called for two legitimate fouls in a row, one on offense, one on defense.

My favorite Webber moment of the night, immediately after Dick Stockton had mentioned that the Spurs swept the Lakers:

"My favorite thing about this playoffs is that not a single team has given up"

CWebb apparently didn't see much of Game 4.

[Mel_13]

Not Presti's choice. He's given a budget by ownership. Clay Bennett's fault, tbh.

That package is also incomplete. They have a top ten pick in June.

How he stays within budget is presumably his choice. There were plenty of options that didn't include trading Harden. Certainly not trading him last summer. A genius would have found a better solution.

And that pick will be 1th or 12th. I included that in my estimation of a pitiful return for Harden.

[Mel_13]

You're acting like it was his decision to make. If his owner tells him he can't spend over a certain amount he has to work within those numbers.

As before, it was his choice how to stay within budget. He can be a genius or a drone, but not both.

[manufan10]

If I remember correctly it came down to keeping Perkins (Or was it Ibaka) or Harden, but not both.

[temujin]

I am still backing Presti's trade.
The only argument against is that he could have traded Westbrook.
More difficult to do.

Anyway, Westbrook playing, this was sweep.
Harden hurt, this was a sweep worst than the SA-Lakers series.
Long term, I still like OKC chances for a title with Durant, better than Houston' with Harden.

[temujin]

I prefer freedom of the press where the media can question why Splitter sat on the bench until game 4 vs Randolph and Gasol instead of the frightened impostors in SA afraid of asking real questions. Don't think Brook has done enough to warrant getting fired - he's not responsible for Westbrook's injury. To change mid-series after playing a certain way for years is difficult to do. Presti needs to send Ibaka to Hakeem every summer to learn some post moves so he can create his own shot.

To me, having frightened the impostors is one of the reasons Pop has created such a successful realm in SA.

[temujin]

Never going to happen. At least not until the team wins a championship or two.

I remember reading that Pop was pretty bullish with some journalist in the SA press well before winning anything.

[Mel_13]

I am still backing Presti's trade.
The only argument against is that he could have traded Westbrook.


There were plenty of other options. The gap between Harden and OKC was a total of 6 million dollars spread over four seasons. Saving 1.5 million dollars per year did not require trading Harden.

[Mel_13]

I remember reading that Pop was pretty bullish with some journalist in the SA press well before winning anything.

He was. There are other factors besides the success of the team that allowed Pop to create the relationship he has with SA press that Presti probably won't be able to match in OKC even after a couple of championships. The circumstances of their arrival in OKC and the explosion of the blogosphere, to name just a couple.

[xellos88330]

you are incredibly racist.

I am not racist. I watch Oprah on a color TV.

[temujin]

There were plenty of other options. The gap between Harden and OKC was a total of 6 million dollars spread over four seasons. Saving 1.5 million dollars per year did not require trading Harden.

So you think OKC could have afforded Durant, Westbrook, Ibaka AND Harden, all making 12-21 M/year for the next 4 years?
And Perkins at 8-9 M on top?
Lakers, but OKC?
Presti had to pick 3, in the long term.
Personally, I would have sent Westbrook, but I admit have a strong bias for manuesque players, and against low BB IQ point guards.
The irony is that they have this Jackson kid who is a very good prospect at PG, and he would be even better next to Harden.

[Mel_13]

So you think OKC could have afforded Durant, Westbrook, Ibaka AND Harden, all making 12-21 M/year for the next 4 years?
And Perkins at 8-9 M on top?

No. I said as much before the trade was even a rumor, at the time of the trade, and in this thread. You said "The only argument against is that he could have traded Westbrook". Judging by your more recent post, you agree with me that other options were available.

[Supreme_Being]

Maybe no one wanted westbrick to start with. Jus sayin

[Whisky Dog]

I would have found any way possible to get rid of Ibaka or Perkins in the interest of keeping Durant-Westbrook-Harden intact.

Damn glad he didn't do it though

[elec99]

What I wont understand is that they basically traded harden for 3 picks because kevin martin is an FA at the end of this year anyway. They traded away a chance at a championship in 2013 for a chance at a championship somewhere down the road.

[phxspurfan]

I would have found any way possible to get rid of Ibaka or Perkins in the interest of keeping Durant-Westbrook-Harden intact

This. Who needs expensive bigs these days anyway? Look what the Heat did with Birdman. Durant-Westbrook-Harden would have been a West shoo-in for years.

[MmP]

I disagree, where do you find a good, tall, athletic, young shot blocker these days?
Im not saying that Presti was right with these moves but keeping big men on the roster sounds logic, to say the least

[michaelwcho]

Monkeyball - Low IQ style of basketball involving an over reliance on physical attributes and dunk shots to play the game. Examples of monkeyballers: DeAndre Jordan, Dwight Howard, Blake Griffin, Russell Westbrook (It doesn't help that Westbrook does have ape-ish facial features)

Old school, white, monkeyball...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UDyBSTQDwH8

... in a good way.
Is

[Mel_13]

I would have found any way possible to get rid of Ibaka or Perkins in the interest of keeping Durant-Westbrook-Harden intact.

Damn glad he didn't do it though

All they had to do was sign Harden.

Ibaka and Harden were both eligible for extensions this past summer. Ibaka was extended, Harden was traded.

[timtonymanurich]

Doesn't seem so smart without Harden and Westbrook.


ABSOLUTELY.

SBrooks is like Spoelstra. Merely the beneficiary of great players. He had BETTER win.

I think it will go 7 games, but that Nazi Stern will want KDurrant to rematch the '12-'13 NBA Champs Our very own Spurs in which San Antonio will go 4-1, or 4-2 on the floundering Thundah.

TImmy Gets # 5.

[xellos88330]

Old school, white, monkeyball...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UDyBSTQDwH8

... in a good way.
Is

Good monkeyball example. Lucky it wasn't a foul.

[Budkin]

The Harden trade was one of the worst of all time, but as far as Scott Brooks goes, it just makes it all the more painful that Pop got out coached by this buffoon last year. It took him 4 games to adjust to their defensive scheme and then the refs made sure that was too late in Game 6.

[Whisky Dog]

All they had to do was sign Harden.

Ibaka and Harden were both eligible for extensions this past summer. Ibaka was extended, Harden was traded.

Yeah he chose poorly in my opinion. You can draft or sign a defensive big to go along with that 3 some. With those 3 commanding the ball you don't need a star or budding star big man. All you need is solid defensive role playing big men who can move and clean up the glass. I know those dont grow on trees, but they're a hell of a lot easier to find than a clutch scoring/distributing playmaker the caliber of Harden.

How Presti watched what Harden did in the 4th quarters in last years playoffs and still got rid of him is beyond me.

[timtonymanurich]

The Harden trade was one of the worst of all time, but as far as Scott Brooks goes, it just makes it all the more painful that Pop got out coached by this buffoon last year. It took him 4 games to adjust to their defensive scheme and then the refs made sure that was too late in Game 6.


Pop wasn't out-coached. Thunder, along with some pretty creative officiating, made some of the most impractical and unlikely shots that they just couldn't duplicate in the Finals. Thunder are hobbling with the loss of their ball-hog of a PG in Westbrick.

Thunder will be fortunate to get past the Clippers in the Semi's.

[UZER]

The Harden trade was one of the worst of all time, but as far as Scott Brooks goes, it just makes it all the more painful that Pop got out coached by this buffoon last year. It took him 4 games to adjust to their defensive scheme and then the refs made sure that was too late in Game 6.

Exactly. If GS wins, believe mark Jackson is gonna go big with thompson and trap Parker. This is where we'll see if Pop has come up with some adjustment to counter. Spurs should still beat GS, but I wanna see an adjustment.

[silverblk mystix]

This will be forgotten or overlooked but it is the truth;

The OKC/Rockets series was won by the refs the last game when OKC was in the bonus with 9 min left in the 1ST QTR!!!!

Putting OKC in a 3-0 lead which was too much to overcome. People will say why do you watch if you think it is rigged blah-blah...but this is how it is done.

I'd be thrilled if the rockets come back but I suspect that if it gets too uncomfortable for Methlahoma - that the refs will turn the tide again...

Just watch.

[said7]

Crazy how they had Jeff Green also. Traded him for Perkins. Imagine that starting 5. Westbrook, Harden, Green, Ibaka, Durant.

[Budkin]

Pop wasn't out-coached. Thunder, along with some pretty creative officiating, made some of the most impractical and unlikely shots that they just couldn't duplicate in the Finals. Thunder are hobbling with the loss of their ball-hog of a PG in Westbrick.

Thunder will be fortunate to get past the Clippers in the Semi's.

Clippers are getting eliminated tonight... they'll have to play Memphis.

[hater]

Ibakas jumper looks pretty pedestrian when not sitting on the shoulders of Harden and Westbrook tbh.

either that, or african police officer is being chased by the ghosts of the missed layup of game 4 that would have probably sealed a swep :lol

[Embedded]

The Birdman is a monkeyballer.

[therealtruth]

Pop wasn't out-coached. Thunder, along with some pretty creative officiating, made some of the most impractical and unlikely shots that they just couldn't duplicate in the Finals. Thunder are hobbling with the loss of their ball-hog of a PG in Westbrick.

Thunder will be fortunate to get past the Clippers in the Semi's.

The team's defense can't allow the opponent to get an offensive rhythm. That's an easy way to lose games and series. Pop was outcoached. That's a big reason why he focused more on defense this season.

[td4mvp21]

But instead of forcing the youngest team in the postseason to execute in the halfcourt in an elimination game, on the road, with 18,000 rapid blue-shirted people screaming their faces off, Scott Brooks sucked the life out of the arena and put the Asik at the line four more times.

This is what I don't understand. Houston's halfcourt offense looked very shaky in the 4th.

[therealtruth]

Crazy how they had Jeff Green also. Traded him for Perkins. Imagine that starting 5. Westbrook, Harden, Green, Ibaka, Durant.

Wouldn't have worked. They would never have beat the Lakers without having better post defense. The Perkins trade worked. It allowed them to beat the Lakers.

[Mel_13]

Wouldn't have worked. They would never have beat the Lakers without having better post defense. The Perkins trade worked. It allowed them to beat the Lakers.

They might have needed Perkins to beat the 2010 Lakers. They didn't need him to beat the 2012 Lakers.

[jag]

Is there any white monkeyballers?

Joe Alexander

http://wvufrederickalumni.files.wordpress.com/2011/07/joe-alexander2.jpg

8th overall pick in the 2008 NBA Draft. Dude was crazy athletic...and his brain was about as worthless as his skillset, which was limited to jumping and dunking.

[TheGoldStandard]

The cap problem could be fixed if players would take less money in order to keep the band together which is why I love the Spurs, they get paid but they don't get overpaid for what they contribute or what they have done in the past.

[temujin]

What I wont understand is that they basically traded harden for 3 picks because kevin martin is an FA at the end of this year anyway. They traded away a chance at a championship in 2013 for a chance at a championship somewhere down the road.

Exactly.
I can't really blame Presti essentially because he felt they had no real chance against Miami this year.
Good enough for #1 spot in the West, with or without Harden, but not to beat Miami anyway, now.
The picks can turn into very good additions.
Presti knows that with Durant his turn will come, anyway.

[atoyotagaspedal]

My favorite part was the commentator said "you remember Roberty Horry right?"
C-webb: "A little bit"
dick move

[Mel_13]

:lol @ the new Presti apologist narrative:

Presti concludes that the Heat are unbeatable, thus justifying his decision to abandon OKC's best chance at a championship in 2012-13 and the years immediately thereafter. Having abandoned all near term championship aspirations, he was then justified in selling Harden for pennies on the dollar.

[temujin]

The two current pennies to the dollar, as well as the two high picks coming from the draft, are better than NO penny for the dollar.
Unless someone called offering 5 pennies, for which there is scant evidence.
66M for Harden (from Houston) > 53/54 M offered (and the difference is not 6).

2012, with Harden, NBA Finals a joke for Miami.

2012, Team USA, Westbrook playing, Harden towel waiving.

2013.
No Harden (with Westbrook), OKC #1 spot in the West.
No Harden (with Westbrook), OKC 2-0.
No Westbrook OKC 1-2.

[Mel_13]

The two current pennies to the dollar, as well as the two high picks coming from the draft, are better than NO penny for the dollar.
Unless someone called offering 5 pennies, for which there is scant evidence.
66M for Harden (from Houston) > 53/54 M offered (and the difference is not 6).

You're woefully unaware of facts of the situation. I'll try to help you.


The two current pennies to the dollar, as well as the two high picks coming from the draft, are better than NO penny for the dollar.

1. At the time of the trade, Harden had one year remaining on his rookie contract. He was paid according to that rookie contract for the 2012-13 season. He wasn't going anywhere last summer.

2. If they did nothing, Harden would have become a restricted free agent this summer. The max contract that another team could offer him would be the same 4yrs/60M he was requesting from OKC. As a restricted free agent, there would have been ZERO chance of OKC losing Harden without compensation.

3. The draft picks received (pending the results of the draft lottery) are the 12th and 32nd in the 2013 draft and a pick from 21-30 in a draft from 2104-17. Maybe you count the 12th pick as a high pick, but there certainly aren't two high picks. The only way things get better is if the Toronto pick moves up to one of the top three picks in the 2013 draft (2.5% chance of that). In that case, the Toronto pick defers to the 2014 draft.


Unless someone called offering 5 pennies, for which there is scant evidence.

1. There's actually no evidence either way.

2. What is certain is that there was no pressure to execute the trade when they did. They were in no danger of paying the luxury tax in 2012-13 and there were at least three future windows to execute a Harden trade and avoid the luxury tax in 2013-14.

3. Of course, all this doesn't even address the other options at their disposal to avoid the luxury tax, or pay a small amount of tax for a year or two, that didn't include trading Harden at all.


66M for Harden (from Houston) > 53/54 M offered (and the difference is not 6).

1. First of all, he received 5yrs/80M from Houston. That fact, however, is irrelevant. Under the provisions of the new CBA, OKC could not offer him an extension greater than 4yrs/60M. The only way he could get more than that was by getting traded.

2. Except he didn't ask for a trade to team that could pay him much more. He asked OKC to pay him the 4yrs/60M that they were allowed to offer him. Instead, they gave him an ultimatum to take 4yrs/54M (so the difference IS 6 million dollars over four years) and when he didn't accept the ultimatum, they traded him for pennies on the dollar. This sequence was detailed by reliable reporting at the time.


Even with the rapid embrace of life as the franchise player for the Houston Rockets, something still troubles All-Star guard James Harden about the way his departure unfolded with the Oklahoma City Thunder: Why didn't officials give him longer than an hour to consider a final four-year, $54 million offer before trading him?

"After everything we established – everything we had done – you give me an hour?" Harden told Yahoo! Sports on Monday afternoon. "This was one of the biggest decisions of my life. I wanted to go home and pray about it. It hurt me. It hurt."

Asked if additional time might have caused him to accept a deal several million dollars short of the $60 million maximum contract Harden had long sought, he responded: "Who knows? Another day, who knows what another day would've done?"

[z0sa]

:lol isn't possibly winning a title with him getting something in return??

[temujin]

[QUOTE=Mel_13;6530775]You're woefully unaware of facts of the situation. I'll try to help you.

Thanks for the help.
Indeed, I did not know that Harden would have become a restricted free agent this year.
I concede the trade might look a bit premature, then.

However,

As per Kojnarowski:
Contract extension talks between the Thunder and Harden broke down, and Thunder general manger Sam Presti moved quickly to trade the guard. Harden rejected a four-year offer that would have paid him a base salary of $53 million to $54 million, league sources said. That offer would have pushed OKC's payroll to $95 million, and Thunder officials weren't willing to go any higher. The 2012-13 salary cap is set at just over $58 million, and the luxury tax kicks in at $70.3 million, while a four-year max deal is worth $60 million.

Apparently, offering 53-54 M would already put OKC way above the luxury tax (Not sure how that is calculated, considering they are now at 68 M with Martin's salary, but there wer other players involved); in that case, wouldn't it be second only to the Lakers' 100 M?
This might explain why they (Presti) gave him 1 hour to decide: they (Presti) probably hoped he would turn down the offer, and thus could blame him for wanting a trade.
Am I woefully offtarget?

[Mel_13]

[QUOTE=Mel_13;6530775]You're woefully unaware of facts of the situation. I'll try to help you.

Thanks for the help.
Indeed, I did not know that Harden would have become a restricted free agent this year.
I concede the trade might look a bit premature, then.

However,

As per Kojnarowski:
Contract extension talks between the Thunder and Harden broke down, and Thunder general manger Sam Presti moved quickly to trade the guard. Harden rejected a four-year offer that would have paid him a base salary of $53 million to $54 million, league sources said. That offer would have pushed OKC's payroll to $95 million, and Thunder officials weren't willing to go any higher. The 2012-13 salary cap is set at just over $58 million, and the luxury tax kicks in at $70.3 million, while a four-year max deal is worth $60 million.

Apparently, offering 53-54 M would already put OKC way above the luxury tax (Not sure how that is calculated, considering they are now at 68 M with Martin's salary, but there wer other players involved); in that case, wouldn't it be second only to the Lakers' 100 M?
This might explain why they (Presti) gave him 1 hour to decide: they (Presti) probably hoped he would turn down the offer, and thus could blame him for wanting a trade.
Am I woefully offtarget?

I'm certain that the 95M figure is inclusive of projected luxury tax.

It's pure guesswork for anyone as to what Presti's intent was. It could have been just as you suggest. My personal opinion is that they were never going pay that much in luxury tax. If Harden took the 54M, then they could play out the 2012-13 season and deal with the 2013-14 payroll in the summer of 2013. Having Harden locked up at 4yrs/54M (well below his market value) would be a tremendous trade chip, which is likely one reason why Harden wouldn't take a reduced deal. They would also have the possibility of trading Ibaka (at 4yrs/48M, also an attractive piece). Then there is Perkins at 2yrs/19m. Ideally, they would find a team with cap space to absorb most or all of his deal. Failing that, they always had the amnesty provision at their disposal to use on Perkins. There was also the possibility of moving a smaller piece like Thabo and paying a few million in tax for a season or two.

I'll always remained convinced that they could have played out the 2012-13 season and taken their best shot at a ring. Then, if they judged that moving Harden was in the best interests of the franchise, a similar or better package would have been available in a sign and trade executed in the summer of 2013.

[temujin]

[QUOTE=temujin;6530859]

I'm certain that the 95M figure is inclusive of projected luxury tax.

It's pure guesswork for anyone as to what Presti's intent was. It could have been just as you suggest. My personal opinion is that they were never going pay that much in luxury tax. If Harden took the 54M, then they could play out the 2012-13 season and deal with the 2013-14 payroll in the summer of 2013. Having Harden locked up at 4yrs/54M (well below his market value) would be a tremendous trade chip, which is likely one reason why Harden wouldn't take a reduced deal. They would also have the possibility of trading Ibaka (at 4yrs/48M, also an attractive piece). Then there is Perkins at 2yrs/19m. Ideally, they would find a team with cap space to absorb most or all of his deal. Failing that, they always had the amnesty provision at their disposal to use on Perkins. There was also the possibility of moving a smaller piece like Thabo and paying a few million in tax for a season or two.

I'll always remained convinced that they could have played out the 2012-13 season and taken their best shot at a ring. Then, if they judged that moving Harden was in the best interests of the franchise, a similar or better package would have been available in a sign and trade executed in the summer of 2013.

I agree with everything, except that the last part: I feel OKC has really very little chance with Miami, which matches very well all their strengths. Maybe Presti felt that the team even with Harden was a bad match-up anyway?
This is unlike another team, which has, in my opinion, the tools to exploit Miami' few weaknesses. First, however, this other team needs to get there, alive and well, in all its vital parts.

[Mel_13]

[QUOTE=Mel_13;6530880]

I agree with everything, except that the last part: I feel OKC has really very little chance with Miami, which matches very well all their strengths. Maybe Presti felt that the team even with Harden was a bad match-up anyway?
This is unlike another team, which has, in my opinion, the tools to exploit Miami' few weaknesses. First, however, this other team needs to get there, alive and well, in all its vital parts.

They certainly had a better shot with Harden than without him. Trading him for the assets they received was an open admission that they regarded winning the West as their ceiling. That's a bad message to send to your team and your fans.

As a Spurs fan, I'm glad Presti made the trade. A healthy OKC would still have been tough to beat, even without Harden. The chances for the Spurs to advance to the NBA Finals, however, were greatly improved on the day Harden was traded to Houston.

My point at the outset was that San Antonio fans are too quick to anoint Presti as a genius. He's done a fine job overall, but he has made his share of mistakes and has been the recipient of some remarkable good luck.

[temujin]

[QUOTE=temujin;6530941]

They certainly had a better shot with Harden than without him. Trading him for the assets they received was an open admission that they regarded winning the West as their ceiling. That's a bad message to send to your team and your fans.

As a Spurs fan, I'm glad Presti made the trade. A healthy OKC would still have been tough to beat, even without Harden. The chances for the Spurs to advance to the NBA Finals, however, were greatly improved on the day Harden was traded to Houston.

My point at the outset was that San Antonio fans are too quick to anoint Presti as a genius. He's done a fine job overall, but he has made his share of mistakes and has been the recipient of some remarkable good luck.

Well, the point I made at the beginning was that Presti has a lot to do to control the OKC press.
Maybe I was wrong.
Focusing media's attention on Brooks' mistakes, as in the article, is one way to divert it from a trade that was a bit precipitated.