Tim Duncan, Dwight Howard, Shaq and "The Last Great Center" a PtR Article

[100%duncan]

Hell since we are all bored right now waiting for Monday.

Dwight Howard: The Most Confounding Player of Our Time

First off, let me be perfectly clear: I'd love nothing more than for the Lakers to re-sign Howard for a bajillion dollars. The guy is not a franchise player. Nobody will ever win squat with him as their main guy. His offensive game is too limited, he's too immature, too whiny, petulant, disingenuous to the extreme and without a speck of accountability. Nothing is ever his fault, no foul call against him is ever warranted, every layup he concedes or turnover he commits is because someone else failed him.

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Read more here: http://www.poundingtherock.com/2013/5/3/4293134/tim-duncan-dwight-howard-shaq-and-the-last-great-center

[Shifty]

I've always wondered how many SpursTalkers visit other Spurs related sites like PtR, 48MofH and Project Spurs.

[Richie]

Id be interested to hear other thoughts on Shaq. I didn't watch basketball at that time, but is there really any doubt that during that 3-peat Shaq was simply unstoppable? Sure he didn't have the skills of Duncan, but the dude was averaging 30/15.

From everything I've heard about Shaq, it seems like he was great in spite of himself. If he had Timmys work ethic, maybe he would have retired with 6 or 7 rings rather than 4.

Also, I wonder what would have happened in 2000 if Timmy hadn't been injured. Spurs swept the Lakers in '99 and the Lakers had all the pressure to perform. A year later they had the confidence of a title under their belt and Robinson a year older. If Timmy stays healthy, maybe the Lakers never make it out of the second round and the team gets blown up.

[Shifty]

Id be interested to hear other thoughts on Shaq. I didn't watch basketball at that time, but is there really any doubt that during that 3-peat Shaq was simply unstoppable? Sure he didn't have the skills of Duncan, but the dude was averaging 30/15.

From everything I've heard about Shaq, it seems like he was great in spite of himself. If he had Timmys work ethic, maybe he would have retired with 6 or 7 rings rather than 4.

Also, I wonder what would have happened in 2000 if Timmy hadn't been injured. Spurs swept the Lakers in '99 and the Lakers had all the pressure to perform. A year later they had the confidence of a title under their belt and Robinson a year older. If Timmy stays healthy, maybe the Lakers never make it out of the second round and the team gets blown up.

Shaq was a monster created by a combination of things. He was in his primer during what probably was the weakest era for big men since the beginning of the league. Due to his size, calling fouls on and against him was difficult but like many superstars but his size gave a huge advantage since he would give a lot of punishment, way more than he was receiving. For an example, look up the finals against the Sixers, every time Mutombo and Shaq "collided", Mutombo was called for the foul. Even when he hacked Shaq's elbow with his jaw.

Also, those Lakers teams were good, but like the article said, those championships were more about the Blazers and Kings (and the refs) failing than the Lakers winning.

Shaq was a dominant physical force that had a big enough advantage to force the rest of the league to adjust to him but lacked pretty much everything else, including smarts and leadership skills (if Laker-Kobe tandem had played today, the Internet would've rip them to shreds for their feuds). Fortunately for him, he just had better teammates than Howard.

[Mugen]

I hate the Lakers as much as any true Spur fan but discounting the 2000 and 2002 championships is silly tbh. Sure they got unprecedented ref help in the Blazers/King series but that doesn't mean the Blazers didnt choke away a 15pt lead in the 4th and Kings not choking away a Game 7 at home. 2006 I get but who cares because fuck the Mavs that year.

I also think the author doesn't give prime shaq the credit he deserves. He might not have all the skills that the other C's of his time have but Shaq was a damn good passer and had pretty damn good footwork for a man of his size. He didn't shoot jumpers because he simply didn't have to tbh. Prime Shaq would f'n abuse a Prime Dwight and it'd be pretty damn laughable.

[Mel_13]

I hate the Lakers as much as any true Spur fan but discounting the 2000 and 2002 championships is silly tbh. Sure they got unprecedented ref help in the Blazers/King series but that doesn't mean the Blazers didnt choke away a 15pt lead in the 4th and Kings not choking away a Game 7 at home. 2006 I get but who cares because fuck the Mavs that year.

I also think the author doesn't give prime shaq the credit he deserves. He might not have all the skills that the other C's of his time have but Shaq was a damn good passer and had pretty damn good footwork for a man of his size. He didn't shoot jumpers because he simply didn't have to tbh. Prime Shaq would f'n abuse a Prime Dwight and it'd be pretty damn laughable.

:rollin

[Maddog]

A couple of thoughts
1st I always hated watching Shaq play offense. If you watch any game in his prime years it was always a wrestling match. I think a lot of what he got away with would be called an offensive foul today. Dwight gets called for OF on moves Shaq made all the time.
2nd Zone defenses where allowed in 2001-2002. It wasn't until the following year that teams really begin to incorporate more aspects of this into their schemes. The Spurs defense prior utilized some zone techniques, but by 03 they utilized this even more, actually playing zone for stretches of the second half of game 6 in the finals.
Now centers have to be able to pass out of a double quickly and can't bowl over opponents as in the past. If they leave the post they need to have some skills or it's 4 on 5. Also, there has been interest in having wings who can double down quickly.
I remember when Hakeem went crazy against the Spurs in the 05 playoffs. Now that would be very hard to do.
Teams would have double down quickly each time he got the ball- not with a del negro but a Danny Green or Manu etc. Furthermore that little hop might be called travelling now.

[Embedded]

Hell since we are all bored right now waiting for Monday.

Dwight Howard: The Most Confounding Player of Our Time

First off, let me be perfectly clear: I'd love nothing more than for the Lakers to re-sign Howard for a bajillion dollars. The guy is not a franchise player. Nobody will ever win squat with him as their main guy. His offensive game is too limited, he's too immature, too whiny, petulant, disingenuous to the extreme and without a speck of accountability. Nothing is ever his fault, no foul call against him is ever warranted, every layup he concedes or turnover he commits is because someone else failed him.

.................................................. ................

Read more here: http://www.poundingtherock.com/2013/5/3/4293134/tim-duncan-dwight-howard-shaq-and-the-last-great-centerROFLMFAO is a a photoshopped picture? That's not only a Foul, it's Foul, man.

[Dunc n Dave]

A couple of thoughts
I remember when Hakeem went crazy against the Spurs in the 05 playoffs.

I think you mean '95.

[Maddog]

ROFLMFAO is a a photoshopped picture? That's not only a Foul, it's Foul, man.


Was that a roll and Pick play?


I think you mean '95.
They really shouldn't put the 0 next to the 9

[rmt]

I disagree with his assessment of Shaq. For all his antics, Shaq came to play when the games were important. He created his own shot - not like DH who has to be spoonfed. Shaq and DH are like night and day offensively - Shaq was DOMINANT and the focal point of the opponent's defense. Sure, both love the limelight and attention but Shaq came off as more lovable and fun-loving. Regarding DH re-signing, Lakers are damned if he does (paying mega-bucks for a not so good player) and damned if he doesn't (stuck without anyway to replace the talent as they are way over the luxury limit).

One can see the results in the playoffs - the teams with the monkeyballers - Clippers with Blake/Jordan, Nuggets with Faried/McGee, Lakers with DH are either on the brink of elimination or have been eliminated. Not saying it's all their fault, but they are partly to blame. When the game slows down, what use are these players in the half-court.

[chapnis]

No championship ever should have an asterisk IMO.

[skulls138]

I disagree with his assessment of Shaq. For all his antics, Shaq came to play when the games were important. He created his own shot - not like DH who has to be spoonfed. Shaq and DH are like night and day offensively - Shaq was DOMINANT and the focal point of the opponent's defense. Sure, both love the limelight and attention but Shaq came off as more lovable and fun-loving. Regarding DH re-signing, Lakers are damned if he does (paying mega-bucks for a not so good player) and damned if he doesn't (stuck without anyway to replace the talent as they are way over the luxury limit).

One can see the results in the playoffs - the teams with the monkeyballers - Clippers with Blake/Jordan, Nuggets with Faried/McGee, Lakers with DH are either on the brink of elimination or have been eliminated. Not saying it's all their fault, but they are partly to blame. When the game slows down, what use are these players in the half-court.
Two words, Phil Jackson. Before PJ Shaq was EXACTLY like DH. Both him and Kobe were getting swept out of playoffs, couldnt understand how they werent dominating teams, and were big babies about it.

[Chinook]

I didn't care for that article at all. Seemed like a fan post rather than an analysis. Pau Gasol should be considered one of the old-school centers, too.

Since when has Duncan had elite athleticism? I don't even think he was top-15 in his prime, much less now. Tim's athleticism has always been underrated, but not by that much.

Also, since when is Durant in the center conversation? And what's up with pretending that Garnett can't be considered as well?

[Drachen]

On one hand, I think the author discounts how good Shaquille O'Neal was, but on the other, while he was playing, I kept saying that it was a damn shame, because there was no reason that he shouldn't be GOAT. If he would have put half the work into his game that he put into his antics he would be.

[racm]

I've always wondered how many SpursTalkers visit other Spurs related sites like PtR, 48MofH and Project Spurs.

I write mostly game previews for PtR.

the author's more cynical than your average STer.

[therealtruth]

Two words, Phil Jackson. Before PJ Shaq was EXACTLY like DH. Both him and Kobe were getting swept out of playoffs, couldnt understand how they werent dominating teams, and were big babies about it.

Shaq was more dominant than Dwight before he met PJ. With PJ he took his mental game to the next level. I think PJ could really improve Dwight's game.

[Shifty]

I write mostly game previews for PtR.

the author's more cynical than your average STer.

You are one of the few I recognize since you use the same username, like I do.

[Frank Dux]

That article was awful.