Loss on Scott Brooks?

[midnightpulp]

OKC entered the 4th with a 5 point lead primarily because of Durant, and Brooks sits him to start the 4th. Memphis regains the lead in 2 minutes.

If the role-players/bench were playing well, I can understand sitting him. But every Thunder player not named Fisher was a deer-in-the-headlights out there.

Massive mistake to take him out at that point. Killed every bit of momentum Durant seized for his team at the end of the 3rd.

[racm]

Reminds me of the times Mike Brown would take LeBron out when it was obvious Mo Williams shat the bed.

[baseline bum]

This ain't 1962 and Duarant's not going against unathletic 6'3" honkies. Can't play the guy 48 minutes without killing him like Capt Black Coach did with Curry last night tbh.

[xellos88330]

He probably saw what happened with Curry and got scared.

[Monster1776]

Durant made some critical mistakes and our bigs were horrible on catching passes; the loss was a team effort.

[midnightpulp]

This ain't 1962 and Duarant's not going against unathletic 6'3" honkies. Can't play the guy 48 minutes without killing him like Capt Black Coach did with Curry last night tbh.

Normally I would agree with that. But the Thunder role players were totally incompetent without Durant on the floor. Gotta go Mike D'Antoni here and risk ripping Durant's Achilles to get a win that probably decides the series.

[Monster1776]

Normally I would agree with that. But the Thunder role players were totally incompetent without Durant on the floor. Gotta go Mike D'Antoni here and risk ripping Durant's Achilles to get a win that probably decides the series.
But yeah, our role players don't have any idea what to do without just standing on the 3 point line and letting Durant or Westbrook create. No movement on OR off the ball.
Highly doubt a close early game 2 will decide the series.

[AaronY]

Highly doubt a close early game 2 will decide the series.
No, it's over..

[midnightpulp]

Durant made some critical mistakes and our bigs were horrible on catching passes; the loss was a team effort.

That relates to my main point. No one else besides Fisher did anything out there. Hell, Durant even matched rebounds with your entire frontline.

[racm]

Your boys need to win one in Memphis to win the series, Monster1776.

Scott Brooks doesn't know what off-ball movement is, too.

[AaronY]

Theyre gonna get throttled in Memphis IMO..

[baseline bum]

Normally I would agree with that. But the Thunder role players were totally incompetent without Durant on the floor. Gotta go Mike D'Antoni here and risk ripping Durant's Achilles to get a win that probably decides the series.

Nah, this series is still a coin-flip and he needed Durant to finish the game.

[Monster1776]

No, it's over..

I know this may seem difficult having to deal with Spur fans that think the world is ending every other game on a daily basis but I typically don't get overwhelmed with a loss.

[AaronY]

Disagree that this series is still up in the air supporting cast is too horrible, Martin's their second best scorer and he can't even get on the court in the fourth..it's basically Durant and the Bobcats out there..

[Monster1776]

Your boys need to win one in Memphis to win the series, Monster1776 (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=35029).

Scott Brooks doesn't know what off-ball movement is, too.
I don't disagree, if we lose both in Memphis it would be incredibly bad morale wise; especially with such a young team. But having game 5 and 7 in OKC is a life savor because we typically fuck up over small periods of time before rolling again. And we didn't need to know what ball movement was because we HAD two of the most tenacious and aggressive off the dribble penetration players in the league.

[AaronY]

Over..mark my words..

[Monster1776]

Disagree that this series is still up in the air supporting cast is too horrible, Martin's their second best scorer and he can't even get on the court in the fourth..it's basically Durant and the Bobcats out there..

Martin has been playing like shit all playoffs and is due for a good game. It's just painfully clear that Westbrook was what kept all the role players in line, Durant just doesn't have that mentality yet.

[racm]

I don't disagree, if we lose both in Memphis it would be incredibly bad morale wise; especially with such a young team. But having game 5 and 7 in OKC is a life savor because we typically fuck up over small periods of time before rolling again. And we didn't need to know what ball movement was because we HAD two of the most tenacious and aggressive off the dribble penetration players in the league.

Even the Bulls ran some sets for off-ball plays with Rose around. Perkins' and Collison's passing ability is an underused part of your offense.

The thing is that if Memphis wins the games on their court they win the series.

[Monster1776]

Over..mark my words..

I'll hold you to them; these next two games in Memphis will be incredibly interesting. Shame they pushed the next game back 4 days instead of 2.

[Monster1776]

Even the Bulls ran some sets for off-ball plays with Rose around. Perkins' and Collison's passing ability is an underused part of your offense.

The thing is that if Memphis wins the games on their court they win the series.

Collison is an incredibly intelligent and well sound big. It would be great if he was utilized more but for whatever reason he's too scared to assert himself and take any shots. I've seen him in warmups and whenever he does shoot knock down 10-15 foot jumpers consistently. It would be so much more beneficial if he tried to take more shots because every defender that goes up against him knows he's always looking for that pass and never the jump shot.

[racm]

Collison is an incredibly intelligent and well sound big. It would be great if he was utilized more but for whatever reason he's too scared to assert himself and take any shots. I've seen him in warmups and whenever he does shoot knock down 10-15 foot jumpers consistently. It would be so much more beneficial if he tried to take more shots because every defender that goes up against him knows he's always looking for that pass and never the jump shot.

Sounds like Diaw, tbh. His two man game with Martin is intriguing.

[Monster1776]

Sounds like Diaw, tbh. His two man game with Martin is intriguing.

What do you mean?

[racm]

What do you mean?

Diaw is a good passing big who looks to pass instead of score.

And Collison has developed rapport with Martin - I've noticed that that's one of the few instances where a Thunder player moves off the ball.

[Monster1776]

Diaw is a good passing big who looks to pass instead of score.

And Collison has developed rapport with Martin - I've noticed that that's one of the few instances where a Thunder player moves off the ball.

Ahh, was referring to the Collison/Martin comment. I see what you mean, Collison does a good job of encouraging ball movement; might be because he played under Bill Self and Kansas does a good job of not playing bullshit Iso hero ball even with all it's 5 star recruits. Martin is an excellent movement player and does well with Collison, but just seems to get too complacent sitting in the corner because he expects Durant and missing Westbrook to penetrate and dish out to him in the corner for the 3. It's hard to change mindsets at the end of a season, much less mid game. I personally think Durant, Collison, and Ibaka make a much more interesting dynamic with almost a triangle like sort of play.

[ElNono]

is it just me or Collison >>>> Ibaka so far this series?

[Monster1776]

is it just me or Collison >>>> Ibaka so far this series?

You're not too far off; although most people don't really see Collison period because nothing that he does for the team shows up on the stat sheet. Ibaka needs to get rolling along with all the other role players.

[Leon Black]

You're not too far off; although most people don't really see Collison period because nothing that he does for the team shows up on the stat sheet. Ibaka needs to get rolling along with all the other role players.

Shut up faggot

[DMC]

Scott Brooks is one of the worst coaches in the league. He has no real adjustments.

[Koolaid_Man]

OKC entered the 4th with a 5 point lead primarily because of Durant, and Brooks sits him to start the 4th. Memphis regains the lead in 2 minutes.

If the role-players/bench were playing well, I can understand sitting him. But every Thunder player not named Fisher was a deer-in-the-headlights out there.

Massive mistake to take him out at that point. Killed every bit of momentum Durant seized for his team at the end of the 3rd.

:lol No need to get nervous it's just the 2nd game of potentially 7...Besides SA has a 1 game lead on GS...stop panicking so early...you might not even met up with the Grizz :lmao

[100%duncan]

OKC is not better without Westbrook I saaaaiiiid.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

Scott Brooks is one of the worst coaches in the league. He has no real adjustments.

This. The only reason he has a job is because his players love him and listen to him which is more than lots of NBA coaches can say, but as far as actual coaching goes he's pretty bad.

I blame OKC's problems on Sam Presti more than anyone else. The talent of level on OKC has gone noticeably downhill since 2010 because he traded Jeff Green and James Harden way below value.

[100%duncan]

^Imagine if this team is fully healthy and has Green and Harden. Dayum tbh.

[Brazil]

OKC is not better without Westbrook I saaaaiiiid.

of course they are not

[100%duncan]

of course they are not

Some think they are scrah.

[Brazil]

Some think they are scrah.

just for trolling purpose scrah fwiw imho

[BobaFett1]

Perkins cannot even catch the ball for a easy put back dunk/layup. Ibaka cannot even hit a point blank shot.

[Kidd K]

Durant has to rest at some point. He should have been resting right then. Otherwise, he'd either have to rest anyway a few games minutes later, or be tired as fuck to close the game.

I can see blaming Brooks for the loss, but not because he rested Durant when he should have.


This. The only reason he has a job is because his players love him and listen to him which is more than lots of NBA coaches can say, but as far as actual coaching goes he's pretty bad.

I blame OKC's problems on Sam Presti more than anyone else. The talent of level on OKC has gone noticeably downhill since 2010 because he traded Jeff Green and James Harden way below value.

You're projecting your blame in the wrong direction. Presti had to trade those players because the ownership didn't want to pay them. You should blame the owners for being cheapskates rather than Presti for doing what he's told. Them trading Harden was predictable the moment the re-signed Westbrook to that huge deal.

[BobaFett1]

Durant has to rest at some point. He should have been resting right then. Otherwise, he'd either have to rest anyway a few games minutes later, or be tired as fuck to close the game.

I can see blaming Brooks for the loss, but not because he rested Durant when he should have.


Okc time as a power will be short lived in a small market city.


You're projecting your blame in the wrong direction. Presti had to trade those players because the ownership didn't want to pay them. You should blame the owners for being cheapskates rather than Presti for doing what he's told. Them trading Harden was predictable the moment the re-signed Westbrook to that huge deal.

[Mel_13]

This. The only reason he has a job is because his players love him and listen to him which is more than lots of NBA coaches can say, but as far as actual coaching goes he's pretty bad.

I blame OKC's problems on Sam Presti more than anyone else. The talent of level on OKC has gone noticeably downhill since 2010 because he traded Jeff Green and James Harden way below value.

Absolutely. Presti apologists are numerous, especially among Spurs fans. They'll always point to an ownership mandate, as if he had a gun to head. There's no doubt that he has to operate within a budget, but he chooses how to stay within that budget. The Harden decision was just terrible.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

You're projecting your blame in the wrong direction. Presti had to trade those players because the ownership didn't want to pay them. You should blame the owners for being cheapskates rather than Presti for doing what he's told. Them trading Harden was predictable the moment the re-signed Westbrook to that huge deal.

Mel just said this but the owners give Presti a budget and he chooses how he's gonna use it. He decided to give Perkins $8,000,000 a year which is ridiculous for a player who's skillset is as outdated as Perkins' skillset is. He also gave Westbrook a deal averaging $16,500,000 a year when two comparable players were given deals for $12,500,000 a year (Parker) and $11,000,000 a year (Rondo) around the same time. Even after overpaying two players like that, he had the chance to amnesty Perkins but chose to keep him over Harden. Then he traded Harden as quickly as possible when there was no reason to do it in such a hurry.

As far as Jeff Green goes, they had to trade him below value because his play was never gonna reflect his value as long as he and Durant were on the same team. They're playing styles overlap way too much which was something people had questions about from the day he drafted Durant and Green. It didn't make any sense to draft Kevin Durant then draft a poor man's Kevin Durant.

[jag]

I agree with the criticism of Presti, but I think it makes more sense to judge the Thunder relative to the rest of the league as opposed to judging them on the talent they could have accumulated. In spite of the ostensibly poor decisions he's made - James Harden, Jeff Green, Cole Aldrich - the Thunder were still the favorite to come out of the West before Westbrook's injury.

[Raven]

they are getting nowhere without wesbrick with a half court offense, they need to keep the pace as much as they can. Perkins out and ibaka at C + another fast young player, they have plenty.

[tlongII]

I think Memphis will win the series and they'll probably when the West as well. That team is built for the playoffs. They're big, physical, and they play great defense. Z-Bo and Gasol are just beasting on the Thunder's frontline so far. I don't think the Spurs can match up with them either.

[Kidd K]

Mel just said this but the owners give Presti a budget and he chooses how he's gonna use it. He decided to give Perkins $8,000,000 a year which is ridiculous for a player who's skillset is as outdated as Perkins' skillset is. He also gave Westbrook a deal averaging $16,500,000 a year when two comparable players were given deals for $12,500,000 a year (Parker) and $11,000,000 a year (Rondo) around the same time. Even after overpaying two players like that, he had the chance to amnesty Perkins but chose to keep him over Harden. Then he traded Harden as quickly as possible when there was no reason to do it in such a hurry.

As far as Jeff Green goes, they had to trade him below value because his play was never gonna reflect his value as long as he and Durant were on the same team. They're playing styles overlap way too much which was something people had questions about from the day he drafted Durant and Green. It didn't make any sense to draft Kevin Durant then draft a poor man's Kevin Durant.

The Perkins thing made sense at the time because they needed Perkins since the Lakers were still a powerhouse and they (mistakenly) thought that Perkins would help them D up Gasol and Bynum. In hindsight, it wasn't a terrible deal. Green missed most of the season he was traded in and only recently started to look impressive again. The Perkins thing always made sense because prior to us realizing the Lakers were a joke, a good frontcourt seemed like a neccessity. I definitely don't think Perkins is why Harden wasn't kept. If not him, they would've just been paying Green instead.

The real mistake he made (I completely agree with you on this one man) was when he signed himself into a corner because the organization decided to overpay Russell Westbrook. I'm not sure who exactly was behind this, but when Harden was still around and looking better than Westbrook, Westbrook was always their go-to guy despite all the mistakes he was making. I don't know if it was because he matured slightly sooner than Harden and put up bigger numbers sooner, or because he was a flashier/more marketable guy, but the decision to bet all their chips on Westbrook (combined with their cheapness) is why they traded Harden.

Paying Westbrook that much instead of working out a way to keep them both was Presti's only real mistake. The rest of the cause of Harden not being kept is the cheapness of OKC's ownership. What was the difference between their offer and his asking price again? Like 1-1.5 mil? Such a joke.

[HeatChamps]

I think Memphis will win the series and they'll probably when the West as well. That team is built for the playoffs. They're big, physical, and they play great defense. Z-Bo and Gasol are just beasting on the Thunder's frontline so far. I don't think the Spurs can match up with them either.
The Thunder will win in 7. Then the Heat will tap dat ass on whoever reaches the final.

[Mel_13]

Paying Westbrook that much instead of working out a way to keep them both was Presti's only real mistake. The rest of the cause of Harden not being kept is the cheapness of OKC's ownership. What was the difference between their offer and his asking price again? Like 1-1.5 mil? Such a joke.

There were plenty more, but I'll stay just within the context of the quoted words.

1. Regardless of any mandate to stay under some future budgetary constraint, there was absolutely no reason to make the trade when they did. 2012-13 was the last year of Harden's rookie contract. If they did nothing, he would have been a restricted free agent this summer. They could have kept the team together one more year and made the budget cutting move this summer.

2. What they did was sign Ibaka to his extension and then give an ultimatum to Harden. They could have given the extension to Harden and the ultimatum to Ibaka.

3. Ultimately, they couldn't keep all four of Harden, Ibaka, Westbrook, and Perkins beyond 2012-13. Presti chose to jettison Harden and keep the other three, and he did it a year earlier than necessary to meet the budgetary restrictions.