Tim Duncan is not for this series...

[Gino-Step]

Diaw Splitter Kawhi should be the main 5's and 4's mixed in with a few minutes of Duncan and Bonner.

The match ups on the pick and roll defensively just don't work with Duncan. We end up giving up too much space to Curry on the 3 off a pick. Or Duncan comes out too much and Curry blows by for a scoop shot. Or if you come with help defense after the blow by, you end up giving a 3 to Thompson or a dump down to Bogut. What Tim gives you offensively with Postups isn't enough when the other team is jacking up 3's. You also need to create turnovers against this team and to do that you have to play small.

Diaw can full out switch on Curry on the PnR. Splitter to an extent as well. The other HUGE difference is on offense, Tim no longer creates anything for others. Yeah he'll shoot 50% if you give him 20 post ups but he's not drawing in the double team so there are no kick out threes and his passing has slipped as he's aged.

On the pick and pop, Duncan is capable of hitting that 17 footer, but he's not really a threat to drive / drive and kick. Diaw gives you that which leads to a ton of options on either wing.

Diaw - Leonard - Ginobili - Green - Parker = Best Lineup

Splitter - Leonard - Ginobili - Green - Parker = 2nd Best Lineup

Splitter - Diaw - Leonard - and rest one of Manu , Danny, Tony. NO NEAL.

Play Duncan when Steph is taking a break. Sorry but hard truth for this series.

[Mal]

Great thinking. Put out your best big, because their backcourt is red hot from three

[dbreiden83080]

Then we lose the series..

You don't bench the greatest Spur of all time. And he is playing well on offense..

[Mugen]

Duncan's the only reason we're not down by 30 tbh.

[exstatic]

gnsf is grey

[tim_duncan_fan]

Ha. Timmy's the only reason I'm watching this game. Well, him and just in case Green gets hot or Baynes comes in. Everyone else is pissing me off.

[DAF86]

OP has a point tbh, Duncan is a liability on pick and roll defense right now.

[Keepin' it real]

Tim Duncan is not for this series...

Make sure to tell Coach Pop if you get the chance. I'm sure he'd appreciate hearing your point of view.

[DAF86]

Splitter is a good option for the pick and roll defense, tbh.

[Brazil]

Tim is giving us a lot of offense but its true on the D side he is struggling on the high pnr.

[RD2191]

Spurs went on their biggest runs with duncan sitting, dont know what that means but take it for what its worth.

[ironman2886]

GTFO. Duncan was the only big man that was significant. Manu and Parker need to make their fucking layups.

[BatManu20]

Trolling? Duncan was huge tonight? He's our only scoring threat inside and our best defensive player. Not sure if serious.

[MannyIsGod]

Shit like this is why I can't read much in this forum anymore.

[Gino-Step]

Trolling? Duncan was huge tonight? He's our only scoring threat inside and our best defensive player. Not sure if serious.

I am serious. He's the best post up / rim protector. Golden State doesn't do either. You need a center who can protect the 3 and Drive off of a Pick on Curry. That's DIAW.

And you need someone who can create steals and havic with pressure. DIAW. Bogut is not a threat. So you need an athletic guy guarding him like a Splitter or Diaw who can help off and look for steals / contest midrange shots while being able to get back to cut off the dump pass to Bogut.

[ShoogarBear]

You need a center who can protect the 3 and Drive off of a Pick on Curry.

And you need someone who can create steals and havic with pressure. Bogut is not a threat. So you need an athletic guy guarding him like a Splitter or Diaw who can help off and look for steals / contest midrange shots while being able to get back to cut off the dump pass to Bogut.

Good idea. They just need 1965 Bill Russell, 1994 David Robinson, or 2004 Kevin Garnett.

[Paulie]

Spurs went on a run and never looked back when Duncan left Game 1. They were able to run better, tbh

[Gino-Step]

I REPEAT. THE SPURS ARE BETTER WITHOUT DUNCAN IN THIS SERIES. I DON'T CARE WHO HE IS OR WHAT HE MEANS TO THE FRANCHISE. LOOK AT THE RUN IN THE 1ST QUARTER AFTER HE LEFT.

[Rummpd]

Tim Duncan says the BS meter running high re benching him

[Aztecfan03]

Hell no. Keep Manu on the bench.

[ShoogarBear]

:lmao

[poop]

Diaw Splitter Kawhi should be the main 5's and 4's mixed in with a few minutes of Duncan and Bonner.

The match ups on the pick and roll defensively just don't work with Duncan. We end up giving up too much space to Curry on the 3 off a pick. Or Duncan comes out too much and Curry blows by for a scoop shot. Or if you come with help defense after the blow by, you end up giving a 3 to Thompson or a dump down to Bogut. What Tim gives you offensively with Postups isn't enough when the other team is jacking up 3's. You also need to create turnovers against this team and to do that you have to play small.

Diaw can full out switch on Curry on the PnR. Splitter to an extent as well. The other HUGE difference is on offense, Tim no longer creates anything for others. Yeah he'll shoot 50% if you give him 20 post ups but he's not drawing in the double team so there are no kick out threes and his passing has slipped as he's aged.

On the pick and pop, Duncan is capable of hitting that 17 footer, but he's not really a threat to drive / drive and kick. Diaw gives you that which leads to a ton of options on either wing.

Diaw - Leonard - Ginobili - Green - Parker = Best Lineup

Splitter - Leonard - Ginobili - Green - Parker = 2nd Best Lineup

Splitter - Diaw - Leonard - and rest one of Manu , Danny, Tony. NO NEAL.

Play Duncan when Steph is taking a break. Sorry but hard truth for this series.

NEVER SPEAK ABOUT TIM DUNCAN AGAIN YOU LITTLE SAD NOOBIE VIRGIN

[dbreiden83080]

You were saying...

[Stabula]

lol

[milkyway21]

Diaw Splitter Kawhi should be the main 5's and 4's mixed in with a few minutes of Duncan and Bonner.

The match ups on the pick and roll defensively just don't work with Duncan. We end up giving up too much space to Curry on the 3 off a pick. Or Duncan comes out too much and Curry blows by for a scoop shot. Or if you come with help defense after the blow by, you end up giving a 3 to Thompson or a dump down to Bogut. What Tim gives you offensively with Postups isn't enough when the other team is jacking up 3's. You also need to create turnovers against this team and to do that you have to play small.

Diaw can full out switch on Curry on the PnR. Splitter to an extent as well. The other HUGE difference is on offense, Tim no longer creates anything for others. Yeah he'll shoot 50% if you give him 20 post ups but he's not drawing in the double team so there are no kick out threes and his passing has slipped as he's aged.

On the pick and pop, Duncan is capable of hitting that 17 footer, but he's not really a threat to drive / drive and kick. Diaw gives you that which leads to a ton of options on either wing.

Diaw - Leonard - Ginobili - Green - Parker = Best Lineup

Splitter - Leonard - Ginobili - Green - Parker = 2nd Best Lineup

Splitter - Diaw - Leonard - and rest one of Manu , Danny, Tony. NO NEAL.

Play Duncan when Steph is taking a break. Sorry but hard truth for this series.

:depressed :p: :rolleyes

Ü just can't disrespect the future hall-of-famer like that ..

win or loss in this series, Duncan is still the greatest power forward in the league right this minute.

[DesignatedT]

Good call OP.

[Johnsyounger]

Fuck it. Start Tmac....:lmao

[Kidd K]

A sick Tim Duncan is still better than any other big on our team fully healthy.

[anakha]

As mentioned in another thread...

Thank God you're not running this team.

[superjames1992]

Diaw Splitter Kawhi should be the main 5's and 4's mixed in with a few minutes of Duncan and Bonner.

The match ups on the pick and roll defensively just don't work with Duncan. We end up giving up too much space to Curry on the 3 off a pick. Or Duncan comes out too much and Curry blows by for a scoop shot. Or if you come with help defense after the blow by, you end up giving a 3 to Thompson or a dump down to Bogut. What Tim gives you offensively with Postups isn't enough when the other team is jacking up 3's. You also need to create turnovers against this team and to do that you have to play small.

Diaw can full out switch on Curry on the PnR. Splitter to an extent as well. The other HUGE difference is on offense, Tim no longer creates anything for others. Yeah he'll shoot 50% if you give him 20 post ups but he's not drawing in the double team so there are no kick out threes and his passing has slipped as he's aged.

On the pick and pop, Duncan is capable of hitting that 17 footer, but he's not really a threat to drive / drive and kick. Diaw gives you that which leads to a ton of options on either wing.

Diaw - Leonard - Ginobili - Green - Parker = Best Lineup

Splitter - Leonard - Ginobili - Green - Parker = 2nd Best Lineup

Splitter - Diaw - Leonard - and rest one of Manu , Danny, Tony. NO NEAL.

Play Duncan when Steph is taking a break. Sorry but hard truth for this series.
Good post. Would read again.

I will contact my man RC Buford and see if I can hook you up for the Spurs head coaching gig after Pop retires.

[widowmaker]

Duncan started out this series with a stomach virus. Thats why he doesn't seem as effective as we would like him to be. But I wouldn't bench him for the shear fact that hes is getting over it and I expect him to wake up any moment.

[maverick1948]

Yep that p n r that the GSW are running is killing the Spurs. Between Bogut, Landry and Ezeli, they are getting a whooping 15 points a game between them. Most of those points coming on put backs. Yep Timmy getting raped. Bonner sucking big time. Diaw cant handle them. Splitter is just too damn slow.

I wish some of you folks would at least find some proof of your comments before you make complete A $ $ of yourself.

[purist]

Shit like this is why I can't read much in this forum anymore.

Amen.

[Captivus]

I understand the reason of this thread...BUT, Tim is playing great.
Any defensive improvement the Spurs COULD get when he is out, will be out weight by the offense we lose.
So I said NO, keep him playing.
What I want to see is a little more Baynes, given that Tiago doesnt look 100%. And if Tiago is not scoring, Baynes can probably do a better job rebounding...like I said, only because he is not scoring. Hopefully that changes on Sunday and Tiago kicks ass!

[Biggems]

Yep that p n r that the GSW are running is killing the Spurs. Between Bogut, Landry and Ezeli, they are getting a whooping 15 points a game between them. Most of those points coming on put backs. Yep Timmy getting raped. Bonner sucking big time. Diaw cant handle them. Splitter is just too damn slow.

I wish some of you folks would at least find some proof of your comments before you make complete A $ $ of yourself.

awww but what fun would this board be without the mocking of these complete ASSes

[Gino-Step]

BUMP

[HarlemHeat37]

Duncan was great on defense today, maybe even dominant, stupid timing for a bump:lol..

[007nites]

Offensively. Missed free throws, missed open jumpers, late in the 4th Bogut played some good D which made him miss at least 3-4 consecutive shots. It just wasn't his day offensively which is rare.

[dbreiden83080]

He is only shooting 41% but Tim is giving us 21 and 11 a game this series and 80% FT.

[phxspurfan]

Wow so much epic fail here

[mudyez]

OP is an embarrassment for us GNSF...can he become light grey?

[Gino-Step]

:lol

BUMP.

Good job Pop.

[DarrinS]

:lol

BUMP.

Good job Pop.



Lame

[hater]

IMO Duncan is hurting. He keeps dragging the leg and cannot even elevate the 2 inches he used to be able to earlier in the season.

this along with Parker's bangedupness and Kawhi's knee is the most troubling aspect

[Gino-Step]

IMO Duncan is hurting. He keeps dragging the leg and cannot even elevate the 2 inches he used to be able to earlier in the season.

this along with Parker's bangedupness and Kawhi's knee is the most troubling aspect

Agreed. I believe Duncan next season will be coming off the bench. Spurs fans better be prepared. This long playoffs plus any injuries he's fighting off and a short offseason, this man will be aging very quickly heading into 18th year and year 38. Spurs have got to capitalize this year with whatever Duncan has left. Hope he can get you through Memphis which is moreso a series for him.

The good news is Duncan isn't needed against Miami just like against Golden State. (There is no way Duncan can defend LeBron or Wade off of a Miami pick and roll. Need Splitter or Diaw's mobility for that).

GO SPURS AND THANKS DUNCAN FOR THE MEMORIES.

[Nathan89]

:lol

BUMP.

Good job Pop.

How many games did Splitter play more minutes than Duncan this series? That would probably be a good indicator whether or not Pop agree with you tbh.

[Gino-Step]

Spurs with Kawhi without Duncan scored 33.6 points more per 100 possessions.

Duncan was a pure liability. Look at his pure shooting percentage. Feeding Duncan the ball in the post and watching him go to work is not going to win you games. Especially considering he is not getting double teamed which means there are no baskets off of cuts or kick outs when you do that. Do I want to see Duncan back Gasol down with 3 dribbles 1 on 1? No. Do I want to see him take 17 footers all game? No.

What I would like to see is Diaw and Splitter cutting and moving setting screens and making the defense rotate to set up threes. Is Tim Duncan really going to get you more than 1 more additional offensive rebounds vs Diaw or Splitter would? No. So I just don't see any advantages of Tim Duncan beyond having him fresh and taking up some offensive possessions in the first quarter for 8 minutes and to start the 3rd for 8 minutes.

[Gino-Step]

Basketball is changing. The league is going towards 5 Kawhi Leonards instead of guys on the extreme ends of the spectrum like a Steve Nash or a Dwight Howard. The game is becoming super versatile, super floor spread. Jackie Butler, Harrison Barnes, Paul George. Ideally, you have 3-4 of those guys on the court at the same time. A team of 6'4, 6'6, 6'7, 6'7, 6'9 is far better than a traditional Chris Paul + DeAndre Jordan type combo's. Offenses can isolate 'mismatches'. Ala take out Duncan on the pick and roll. Post up Tony P. The only way to counter that is to put out a ton of Kawhi Leonards.

Tyson Chandlers of the world are now absolutely overvalued in a scientific Advanced Stats league. So are Kendrick Perkins. And I'm sorry but Tim Duncan's defensive mobility on pick and rolls can be exploited if you pull him out.

This is why Tiago and Diaw are so effective. What is important now on Defense is defensive spacing and cutting off lanes and showing on screens and being able to move around. So the fact that Tiago is not strong in a full out wrestle for a board is far less important than the fact that his feet and arms get to spaces before the offense does. This is also why he's so good at spacing and rolling on offense. 90% of Tiago's contributions offensively and defensively are made without a touch of contact with anyone.

[Gino-Step]

The numbers from the GS series backs me up. This is why Manu Ginobili is so underrated especially in his prime.

He is extremely tall for a 2 guard so he never gets posted. He's yet quick enough to move around on defense. He can shoot and he can create and he can handle.

Charlie Sheen let me apply some simple logic for you.

How would a team with 5 Tony Parkers do? What about a team with 5 Tim Duncans? What about a team with 5 Kawhi Leonards? Which team wins? Kawhi's would dominate in today's NBA. Why would the other teams lose? cause Tony Parker can't defend the post and Tim Duncan cannot defend the perimeter. Obviously both have offensive shortfalls such as Tim Duncan can't shoot threes or handle / Tony Parker can't post up. But when you are on offense, your team has the ball so you can play to your strengths.

HOWEVER, when you are on defense, the other team will OF COURSE TRY TO EXPLOIT YOUR WEAKNESSES. ADVANCED STATS of today's world will constantly scan for an opposing teams weakness. And they will try to get Tim Duncan playing defense on the perimeter and try to have Tony Parker play defense in the post. As this trend grows, teams with players such as a Steve Nash or a Dwight Howard will get EXPOSED HARD.

So yeah the Spurs are flawed and Tiago isn't the perfect player either blah blah but it's irrefutable that Tiago is a better defender than Tim Duncan. And you can't be old school and look at who can hold their position in the post stronger or who can box out harder. It's all about minimizing the other team's ability to exploit you.

[Gino-Step]

Look at who is left in the playoffs? Blend teams. Why do people anecdotally say you cannot win a championship with a PG? Why do people anecdotally say the Center position is not as important as it was in the 70's. (SHOOTING SKILLS FROM 3 WERE FAR LOWER BACK THEN! SO BETTER TO POST UP!)

teams with a Ricky Rubio, Chris Paul are flashy and cute but can't win. Basketball isn't about if you can defend your position anymore. I don't only care that Duncan is the best defender of other power forwards / centers. If you're a point guard, I don't only care if you are a good defender of point guards.

It's about cross defending. In a league where teams exploit mismatches. It's about how well can Dwight Howard defend Tony Parker not how well he can defend Tim Duncan.

Offenses have become far more intelligent. So if I'm the Spurs, I acquire as many Kawhi's as possible. Hence great trade of them to get rid of GHill for Kawhi. We need 3 of those types on the floor at the same time.

[spurraider21]

Tiago is more mobile and is thus a better pick and roll defender than Timmy is. We've known this all season and have been raving about Tiago's pick and roll game (on both ends) all season. Nothing new here

[Yuixafun]

As that 4th quarter was imploding, and Parker waved off Pop's substitution... and then proceeded to miss 2 more shots and GS closed the gap,

my friends and I were up in arms to pull Parker..

What did Pop do, He sat Duncan and inserted Splitter.

At the time I was a little baffled, but it became clear.

Duncan was half hearted with his movements, no conviction on his offensive attacks, and on defense he was hesitant and late to shooters and help so many times.. he was messing up the feng shui of the motion offense, it almost seemed like he was rattled, especially with that pass to nobody?

I love Duncan as much as anyone who has been watching the Spurs since '96... but Pop made the right decision to win the game, and Duncan simply accepted what Pop thought was best.

This thread starter had valid points that were reinforced clearly in that game 6... It doesn't mean Duncan is any less of all time Great or diminished his accomplishments for his career.

But if Duncan closed out that game, I believe Spurs would have lost for certain.

[Gino-Step]

Apparently you're unfamiliar with the concept of sample size.



He sure has been shooting well lately.



No, even though there is no logic at all here, you are completely wrong. The team of 5 Tim Duncan's would destroy 5 Parker's or 5 Leonard's. They aren't half the complete players that Tim is.



That's fine. You can shoot a bunch of perimeter jumpers while I am lambasting you in the paint with high percentage shots. Idiot.



ROFL Yeah, Tiago Splitter... DPOY candidate over here. Tim just can't compete with that.

Really, you think 5 37 year old Tim Duncans can get the ball over half court and run up and down to cover 5 Kawhi's? LOL good luck even getting it to the post.

And you are wrong about the "High Percentage" inside shot.

Post up players shoot about 55% at best. The differential between the 3 point shot and the 2 point shot and with the way the league is going where players are getting to 40, 45% shooting from 3, the post up is no longer high percentage. And when I say exploit Tim Duncan, I don't mean shooting perimeter Jumpers. I mean blowing by Tim Duncan after you get the switch, then forcing you to give me a HIGH PERCENTAGE LAYUP / FLOATER/ if you help, I kick out for wide open 3's. SO YOU ARE WRONG.

MIKE D'ANTONI KNEW FULL WELL THE STRATEGY AGAINS THE SPURS WAS NOT THE POST UP BUT HE TROLLED ALL LAKER FANS AND LISTENED TO THEM.

In postups, it might be high percentage when you do get your shot off, but 1) A teammate has to post feed the ball into you. Potential turnover. 2) Liable to double teams and this is not a point guard you are doubling with great hands. It's usually a Dwight Howard. Again more turnovers 3) In the case you get fouled, you have a less efficient foul shooter on the line. 4) A 2 point is worth only 66.67% of the points of a 3. 5) Your best rebounder is the one shooting with the rest of your team spread out on the 3 point line so chances of offensive rebounding is far lower.

[Gino-Step]

Lol @ the above.

I wasn't talking about 5 Duncans vs. 5 Kawhi's after my first point.

My entire section about the post up shot not being high percentage was in reference to today's NBA. And no. Today's duncan even if you had him against Kawhi would not shoot any higher than 55% in the post without factoring in help defense. If it was true, why would teams have a LeBron, Kawhi, George, Durant, Melo guarding any post players? By your logic, Yao should have shot more than 55% in the post since he's always 8 inches taller. There is a limit to how good you can shot in the post with any sort of decent defense. And Kawhi is decent in the post. Certainly I'm not advocating you have Kawhi at center. I'm just saying in a very crude example, 5 Kawhi's better than 5 Duncans in a full court game of NBA that's undeniable. Today's game is about Versatility. Kawhi can guard 4 positions really well and below average guarding centers. Duncan can guard 2 positions really well (exceptionally well. DPOY candidate etc) but the other 3 really poorly. So teams will not have Bogut post Duncan. They would be stupid. They will try to force a switch where Duncan defends a Curry, Jack, Thompson. So the more a team does this, the worse Duncan's defense gets. GET IT?

Please try a different rebuttal to justify 'feeding the post' as a viable strategy. Now lets talk about your SHAQ/DUNCAN/GASOL/BYNUM BS. 1) Shaq. That's 10 years ago. Not today's NBA. Back then you could still sorta hand check to stop perimeter players. What's really happened since? In 2011, it was Dirk. In 2012 it was Bosh. Mobile / Shooting. 2) BYNUM? LOL Lakers were better with a Gasol / Lamar combo for those championships. 3) Gasol in 09/10 was a rich man's Splitter. So proves my point right there about mobility and pick and rolls.

So let's see, 09, 10, 11, 12.....where am I wrong about TODAY's NBA needing players to be much more versatile at ALL POSITIONS on both OFFENSE (stretching the floor, rolling off picks) and DEFENSE (pick and roll defense, guarding the post and the perimeter, ability to help and recover).

[HarlemHeat37]

- Duncan had the 3rd highest defensive RAPM this season among big men, only trailing Garnett and Marc Gasol by a slim margin..

- The Warriors ran a dominant pick&roll game in the playoffs, they adjusted their style of play once Lee went out..

The Warriors ran pick&roll for Curry 30 times per game during the playoffs, 12 more than during the regular season..they used the pick&roll to switch Curry against a big and force the opposing D into disarray..

Duncan isn't a great pick&roll defender at this age, obviously, but why did the Nuggets struggle against the Warriors pick&roll attack?..

According to OP's logic, the Nuggets fit the criteria of "today's NBA"..Iguodala, Brewer and Wilson Chandler are all long and athletic..even their bigs, McGee and Faried, are super athletes..

They struggled because Curry is now the premiere pick&roll scorer in today's NBA..

The OP is correct that Duncan would have trouble in this series, but it doesn't have anything to do with a "new NBA" or Duncan no longer being starter material(:lol)..the Warriors are one of 2 or 3 teams that Duncan becomes a defensive liability against..

Although Tiago deserves credit, using Splitter as an example is a flawed argument, as Curry was fatigued at that point..

- Bogut is arguably the best Duncan defender of all-time, tbh, even during Tim's prime..off the top of my head, only Rasheed Wallace was better at it..

- The Grizzlies are in the WCF, running an offense that doesn't fit the OP's criteria..they don't have scary pick&roll threats, they don't have shooters..Duncan's defense is essential in this series, as it has been all year..

- Duncan having a great series is the only chance the Spurs would have against the Heat..his numbers haven't been great in the playoffs, but he's been against Dwight Howard, Andrew Bogut and now Marc Gasol..those are 3 elite defensive bigs..

Duncan could struggle against Bosh's shot, but the Spurs would absolutely need him to dominate on offense, especially since Splitter can't create and Diaw is too passive..not to mention they have defenders to throw at Parker and Ginobili..

The Spurs would be content with Duncan allowing Lebron to take the jump shot, that's always the game plan against Miami, even with Lebron's improved shot..you would always rather take away his driving ability..it wouldn't be anything like defending Curry on the pick&roll:lol..

[Gino-Step]

Agreed. Memphis is as ideal a series for Duncan as you can get. I expect him to be great in this series. I think he will hold his own.

Yes he needs to punish the Heat inside, but I don't like the Spurs playing that strategy. The Heat's man defense on Parker and Ginobili is precisely why you need Splitter and Diaw to set picks and roll / move / swing the ball to get LeBron / Wade off of Ginobili and not allow a trap on the pick and roll. Duncan setting the pick will lead to Manu and Tony getting crushed and swarmed. Duncan's pick and pop shot is slow enough to get back to / not efficient enough. And Duncan can't roll off a pick.

MEMPHIS IS DUNCAN's SERIES.

[ohmwrecker]

The Spurs wouldn't have beat the Warriors without Duncan. Everytime Duncan went to the bench with a Spurs lead, the Warriors closed the gap. Last night's 4th quarter benching was an anomaly in the series.

[Gino-Step]

Sure Denver wasn't successful ultimately but did anyone expect them to be 3rd seed? That's my point. They got the 3rd seed in the West with players that aren't perceived to be all that good! Wilson Chandler? Corey Brewer? Andre Iguodala as your main guy? These guys are undervalued. Kawhi / Green / Butler / George etc.

The Warriors turned out better without David Lee. The Spurs at this point in Duncan's career would be better against GS and Miami with him in a limited roll but not against Memphis.

But the Spurs are 100% better with Manu even if he shoots 1/6 like last night. NBA offenses are not about going to your strengths anymore. "I got a great big guy in Dwight. Let me post him". "I got the best scorer in the league in Durant / Carmelo. Let's feed him the ball and let him work one on one". The best NBA offenses is about how good you are at exploiting the other team's weakest defensive point. There's 2 components to this. 1) Having the most versatile roster so that you have the raw individual talent to exploit the other team in various ways. 2) HAVING SUPER HIGH IQ PLAYERS WHO CAN DETECT DEFENSIVE WEAKPOINTS. Manu, Diaw, Tiago fit this mold.

The term ability to "create offense" if you want to win games is not about crossing someone or creating a shot. It's about are you smart enough and able to find that weak point shot for your teammate. Manu is the best at this in the league. No wonder his +/- was 50.

[look_at_g_shred]

lol