Matt Bonner, Playoff Super Scab

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Fuck that ginger waste of space. And fuck Pop for thinking his adjustment tonight needed to be to trot the softest sack of shit on this squad out to start. We've never recovered from that start. We're in trouble when Pop thinks the adjustment to answer Mark freakin' Jackson is to trot that scab out there to get worked.

Meanwhile, game one hero Boris Diaw rots on the bench while that sorry excuse for a big man plays turnstile out there tonight. In ten more minutes than Diaw tonight, Bonner has two points, two freakin' points! The Warriors aren't even guarding him and he catches the ball on the perimeter and proceeds to put it on the floor. Just like every postseason since he got here, that guy is a pussy in the postseason.

Tim, Tony, and Manu deserve more.

[Darius McCrary]

Pop always reacts. Always. AHF, you learned that lesson back in 2006.

[td4mvp21]

What's even more annoying is that he talked so much this season about how the Spurs lost their identity against OKC last year. The Duncan/Diaw/Splitter frontcourt, more specifically the Duncan/Splitter combo, was this team's identity all season. It's what everyone said made them different this year, and the stats backed it up. Excellent point differential, great defensive numbers.

And guess what? None of that this game. Back to Bonner starting circa 2009, small ball, no Diaw, no Duncan/Splitter pairing. If that's not an identity change, IDK what is.

[Brunodf]

TP/Green/Kawhi/TD/Splitter is the best defensive lineup in the NBA and Pop started Bonner tonight:lmao

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

I was scared when Bonner started.

One, it showed Pop panicked between game one and tonight, and went with the knee jerk lineup change to try to overcome what he saw on tape.

Two, he did it with the biggest candy ass on this team, that's demonstrated time and again that he goes into the fetal position when the calendar turns to May. This guy is the biggest reason this team hasn't made it back to the Finals since their last title. Pop gets desperate, and thinks he can put in Bonner and that Matt will magically turn into Robert Horry to save the day. Not gonna happen.

[m33p0]

i was waiting for the duncan-splitter all game long. instead, i had a dose of bonner-neal that made be gag.

[Johnny RIngo]

Reminds me of '06 - Pop trying to take away the size advantage to match up with smallball

[spurraider21]

how is Bonner to blame in any way, shape or form? i dont think Pop wanted to start Splitter due to his injury. Diaw should have started, sure, but i doubt Bonner is the guy i would point to for the loss

[Splits]

Uhh, the least of the Spurs problems in game 2 was Matt Bonner. Kawhi bricking open 3s, Manu making stupid play after stupid play, Splitter playing like a WNBAer, Dubs making all kinds of bullshit, TDs lack of interior defense, Parker sprinting and falling down all over the place turning the ball over, chippy after chippy missed in the 4th quarter, Klay Thompson putting up career highs in only 1/2 of the game, Manu looking like he had a lobotomy, Neal chucking and missing and missing and missing. Bonner was not the problem.

[z0sa]

lol blaming Bonner for this loss

[playblair]

tnt kenny - spurs should playblair...........................

[Obstructed_View]

Gee, offense ground to a halt, defense not stopping anyone, Parker getting beat up out of position, Klay Thompson running wild, guys wide open, no passes moving toward the basket. Yeah, how can you possibly blame Bonner? :lol

[pogo1231]

And why does Bonner keep trying to drive to the hoop? Why does he keep passing up the three point shot? Isn't that what he is supposed to be good at?

[thOOdee]

SMALL BALL!.....why won't you just DIE!!!

[ElNono]

not gonna blame ginger on this particular game, but LOL @ peeps that were saying Pop wasn't gonna go to ginger in the playoffs.

Ginger: 16 mins
Diaw: 7 mins
Splitter: 10 mins

[Paulie]

Fuck that ginger waste of space. And fuck Pop for thinking his adjustment tonight needed to be to trot the softest sack of shit on this squad out to start. We've never recovered from that start. We're in trouble when Pop thinks the adjustment to answer Mark freakin' Jackson is to trot that scab out there to get worked.

Meanwhile, game one hero Boris Diaw rots on the bench while that sorry excuse for a big man plays turnstile out there tonight. In ten more minutes than Diaw tonight, Bonner has two points, two freakin' points! The Warriors aren't even guarding him and he catches the ball on the perimeter and proceeds to put it on the floor. Just like every postseason since he got here, that guy is a pussy in the postseason.

Tim, Tony, and Manu deserve more.


This!

[TheGoldStandard]

Splitter is the biggest waste of space, can't believe he blew an easy dunk/layup. He's earned a booklet of food stamps in the offseason

[KaiRMD1]

When Bonner plays extended minutes, Spurs get eliminated. Just sayin'

[T Park]

Splitter hadn't even practiced yet, no way was he going to get significant minutes tonight.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

We were a layup line early with Bonner "manning" the middle (and collapsing doubles on postups for open threes). :td It set the tone for the game, let GS get up early, and that was that.

I'm sorry, at this point everyone on that team knows that Bonner's going to be a fucking choke in the postseason, and Pop's grand adjustment from game 1 tonight was to give Bonner ten more minutes of run than Game 1 hero Boris Diaw.

It was fucking dumb.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Really? LMAO Really??? One role player is the biggest reason? It isn't because Parker is one of the most overrated players in the league? I would go with that. LOL @ his series against Conley.

You're so far off that it's pathetic. Bonner came into this series with the best +/- in the NBA, blowing a 2nd place LeBron James out of the water. He did this as a ROLE PLAYER. Unbelievable. He is easily one of the best roleplayers in the league. Not surprisingly, we lost once again because the man who has the most opportunities to generate offense, Parker, was absolute shit.

Go run that +/- for the playoffs since Bonner got here and get back to me.

[RD2191]

Really? LMAO Really??? One role player is the biggest reason? It isn't because Parker is one of the most overrated players in the league? I would go with that. LOL @ his series against Conley.

You're so far off that it's pathetic. Bonner came into this series with the best +/- in the NBA, blowing a 2nd place LeBron James out of the water. He did this as a ROLE PLAYER. Unbelievable. He is easily one of the best roleplayers in the league. Not surprisingly, we lost once again because the man who has the most opportunities to generate offense, Parker, was absolute shit.

Stop posting, tbh

[Obstructed_View]

Splitter hadn't even practiced yet, no way was he going to get significant minutes tonight.

Yet he was still better than Bonner, who got twice as many minutes as Diaw, who was a big contributor to the comeback in game 1. Again, you're not this stupid.

[Fabbs]

The Matt Bonner Era continues. :lol

[silverblk mystix]

Really? LMAO Really??? One role player is the biggest reason? It isn't because Parker is one of the most overrated players in the league? I would go with that. LOL @ his series against Conley.

You're so far off that it's pathetic. Bonner came into this series with the best +/- in the NBA, blowing a 2nd place LeBron James out of the water. He did this as a ROLE PLAYER. Unbelievable. He is easily one of the best roleplayers in the league. Not surprisingly, we lost once again because the man who has the most opportunities to generate offense, Parker, was absolute shit.









:lmao


:rollin:rollin:rollin:rollin:rollin:rollin

[silverblk mystix]

Refute it with tangible evidence. Until then, you know nothing about the game.

Except that I watch the games.

Apparently, Mr. Popsucker and Bonner apologist, you don't.

[silverblk mystix]

So, in other words, you've got absolutely nothing? Gotcha'.

So, your evidence is that Bonner is one of the best roleplayers in the NBA?


Ok.


:rollin:rollin

[silverblk mystix]

My evidence is that he had a +/- that was better than LeBron James coming into this series. As a roleplayer. I don't think anything more needs to be said.


Ah well shit, If I am Miami I am looking to trade Lebron for.....




MATT BONNER!



?:rollin:rollin:rollin:rollin:rollin:rollin:rollin :rollin:rollin

[Sean Cagney]

2013 and we are still talking Bonner or Blair, GOOD LORD.............. WHY OH WHY? Same problem there, no solution.
My evidence is that he had a +/- that was better than LeBron James coming into this series. As a roleplayer. I don't think anything more needs to be said.

YEP! WE HAVE HIM!!!!!!!! WE PLAY HIM! WE WIN A TITLE!!!!!!!!!! He is better than JAMES! YES!:wow:hat

OH Here we go again, the +/- STAT!!!!!!!!!!!

[silverblk mystix]

Again, I see no statistics or evidence you've been able to present to refute the fact that Matt Bonner is one of the best roleplayers in the league. Sorry, your case has been thrown out. (not that you ever had one)


Watch the games.

[Sean Cagney]

Again, I see no statistics or evidence you've been able to present to refute the fact that Matt Bonner is one of the best roleplayers in the league. Sorry, your case has been thrown out. (not that you ever had one)

HAHAHHAHAHAHHAHHAHAHHHAHHAHAHHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHA HHAHAHAHHAHA. GOOD LORD take him on your team then, give us someone for him, Gasol!


Best role players! What are his playoff numbers? He had a good round one with an injured team! Otherwise he sucks in the playoffs, stop your bs already. We have seen him the last two games, he gets beat all over and doesn't hit shots. He is garbage.

[Sean Cagney]

Watch the games.

He appears to be too dumb to see that! LOL at any idiot sticking up for BONNER, one of the best role players! What is he Horry now or even near BARRY? LMFAO.

[silverblk mystix]

He appears to be too dumb to see that! LOL at any idiot sticking up for BONNER, one of the best role players! What is he Horry now or even near BARRY? LMFAO.


lolololololol

[T Park]

Yet he was still better than Bonner, who got twice as many minutes as Diaw, who was a big contributor to the comeback in game 1. Again, you're not this stupid.

May be true but he's not going to play a player big minutes when 1, hasn't practiced, 2, first any kind of full court action in almost 2 weeks.

You can disagree, but those are facts.

[Boomersgold]

This is good. I will readily be able to see who doesn't know what they're talking about, ie you. I should make a thread about Bonner, just so I know who understands the game and who doesn't.

Go ahead.

[Obstructed_View]

May be true but he's not going to play a player big minutes when 1, hasn't practiced, 2, first any kind of full court action in almost 2 weeks.

You can disagree, but those are facts.

You're correct. Pop hasn't done that since ... well, since game 1 when he started Diaw and played him 26 minutes. :rolleyes

[ElNono]

I'm pretty sure the entire Miami Heat +/- is better than Bonner right now, especially after tonight's Miami's blowout win.

unfortunately, you get that feeling that when the Spurs stop playing d-leaguers, Matt was going to come back down to earth.

2 pts in 16 mins for an offensive specialist won't get it done. Because I know Pop will keep riding his dick, I wish him the best and I hope he comes through in the next few games.

[Sean Cagney]

This is good. I will readily be able to see who doesn't know what they're talking about, ie you. I should make a thread about Bonner, just so I know who understands the game and who doesn't.

Yeah show his playoff % too while your at it! Stats don't lie as far as % goes, put those in there too while your at it. LOL at one of the best role players out there, you are an idiot. Good lord.

[Obstructed_View]

Since Bonner is such a superstar in plus minus, it should be telling that he's -2 in game 1 and -9 in game 2. That's like -40 for any regular player.

[slick'81]

Bonner was not the reason for the l but he sure was awful out there

[Sean Cagney]

Bonner was not the reason for the l but he sure was awful out thereYeah he was, this is the truth! Some others sucked too badly! YES they did! But stop talking about Bonner in here like he will make or break a series lol! Bonner fans amaze me, he is not a key to winning a series! He is what he is. He had a good series last series so I give him that, other than that nawwwwww. He is what he is.

[sehui]

for how much bonner is paid he's worth it.

it's not his fault the spurs don't have another proper big who can defend yet be a flexible offensive threat.

[Obstructed_View]

for how much bonner is paid he's worth it.

it's not his fault the spurs don't have another proper big who can defend yet be a flexible offensive threat.

Other than the guy who started most of the season, you mean.

[sehui]

Other than the guy who started most of the season, you mean.

Tiago? He's not really 100% yet, and on the floor he doesn't bring spacing, which was crucially needed this game since no one was making jumpers.

Be reasonable - Matt Bonner isn't a godsend, but you can't blame him for everything; he's not a scapegoat for why the Spurs lost.

[SenorSpur]

Anyone who thought Bonner had somehow magically solved his playoff-choking woes versus the Fakers, better think again. The guy has no business on this roster and this series is simply further proof of that. Yet what does Pop do, in a time where the Spurs are needing a solid adjustment, he starts the bitch. Yikes!

He and Gary Neal are indicative of what is wrong with the Spurs role players. The Spurs are in need of well-rounded role players, who can play both ends of the court, not the undersized, underskilled, one-trick ponies, who, in addition to being 3-pt chuckers, couldn't defend their way out of a paper bag.

[Chomag]

As many of us have said before. As long as Bonner is on this team there is always that fear of something like this.

Pop just cant resist, and never will.

[Captivus]

I dont think anybody really thinks Bonner is THE reason the Spurs lost, but I think most of us agree that Diaw was probably a better option.

[Russo21]

All 4 semi-final series are tied 1-1. That's pretty sweet.

But anyway, Boner the reigning +/- King had a +/- of -9 Not good Ginger. Not good.

Fuck it anyway, we played like ass and only lost by 9. Klay Thompson will not shoot 8-9 from 3 next game, he can't keep that shit up, nobody can. If he went with the law of averages tonight and being a 40% shooter from 3 point land and shot 4-9 we win. 8-9 from 3? That's some crazy shit that isn't gonna happen again.

[silverblk mystix]

for how much bonner is paid he's worth it.

it's not his fault the spurs don't have another proper big who can defend yet be a flexible offensive threat.


Here is wtf is wrong!!!!


Genius coach cannot decide wtf he wants. Find a big who can defend and fuck the offensive crap! Make a fuckin choice. You want to be a team that defends- find players who can defend!

You want to play NELLIE - BALL? Then stop pretending you care about defense.

[Brazil]

Really? LMAO Really??? One role player is the biggest reason? It isn't because Parker is one of the most overrated players in the league? I would go with that. LOL @ his series against Conley.

You're so far off that it's pathetic. Bonner came into this series with the best +/- in the NBA, blowing a 2nd place LeBron James out of the water. He did this as a ROLE PLAYER. Unbelievable. He is easily one of the best roleplayers in the league. Not surprisingly, we lost once again because the man who has the most opportunities to generate offense, Parker, was absolute shit.

Hi FkLA, sup

[Spur Bank]

A little surprised we're 50+ posts in and no one has pointed out the obvious -- why Pop started Bonner.

The rationale is, imo, obvious. With no David Lee, GSW has no bigs who can defend outside the rim. Not outside the paint... outside the rim. Bogut's extremely effective under the rim, but doesn't have the quickness to be effective anywhere else. It's why we've seen Duncan get so many shots from the top of the key; GSW would rather keep Bogut inside to collect rebounds and clog the paint to prevent Parker drives. And it's a good strategy too.

So, how do the Spurs counter that? By sending in "another" offensive floor-stretching big. Duncan by himself is a reasonable floor-stretcher for a big, but you can easily use help defense to mitigate that. But put Duncan and Bonner out there together, and the Warriors, THEORETICALLY, are essentially forced to make their defense spread the floor as well. Someone has to cover Bonner out there... that, combined with Duncan being at the top of the key, leads to HUGE space for Parker to drive.

The question then becomes, what affects Bonner's +/-? Given that he doesn't shoot much, this should be obvious.... Bonner's +/- is almost entirely dependent on if Parker and the guards are successfully driving the lane, and if Duncan et al are hitting their jumpers. In Game 2 --- they did not. It's not Bonner's fault. Just like it's not to his credit if it's high. He's practically a decoy.

[Spur Bank]

I do strongly agree with Charlie Sheen in that anyone who blames the loss on Bonner's performance is an idiot. His role is far too limited for anyone to sensibly think he's the main cause of anything, wins or losses.

I also agree with Sheen that silverblk mystix should either put up some real evidence to back his thoughts (other than "I watch the games") or shut his mouth. Arguing is great, but arguing without giving supporting facts makes you look like a child.

[Fabbs]

A little surprised we're 50+ posts in and no one has pointed out the obvious -- why Pop started Bonner.

The rationale is, imo, obvious. With no David Lee, GSW has no bigs who can defend outside the rim. Not outside the paint... outside the rim. Bogut's extremely effective under the rim, but doesn't have the quickness to be effective anywhere else. It's why we've seen Duncan get so many shots from the top of the key; GSW would rather keep Bogut inside to collect rebounds and clog the paint to prevent Parker drives. And it's a good strategy too.

So, how do the Spurs counter that? By sending in "another" offensive floor-stretching big. Duncan by himself is a reasonable floor-stretcher for a big, but you can easily use help defense to mitigate that. But put Duncan and Bonner out there together, and the Warriors, THEORETICALLY, are essentially forced to make their defense spread the floor as well. Someone has to cover Bonner out there... that, combined with Duncan being at the top of the key, leads to HUGE space for Parker to drive.

The question then becomes, what affects Bonner's +/-? Given that he doesn't shoot much, this should be obvious.... Bonner's +/- is almost entirely dependent on if Parker and the guards are successfully driving the lane, and if Duncan et al are hitting their jumpers. In Game 2 --- they did not. It's not Bonner's fault. Just like it's not to his credit if it's high. He's practically a decoy.
You sir are invited to a party.

[tesseractive]

Splitter didn't look right out there. It's not a matter of whether to play him without him practicing -- it's a matter of how healthy he actually is.

Not playing Diaw much at all doesn't make any sense to me unless Diaw reinjured something in game 1 and Pop can't play him -- even if he doesn't have Bonner's range, he can still shoot midrangers, and he's so much better in every other aspect of the game.

The one and only saving grace about playing smallball is having Kawhi out there. He has incredible reach and is a monster on the boards, so it's not like we're sticking Finley in or something. If we had had Kawhi to use against the Mavs in 2006 instead of Finley, we'd have another championship banner up in the rafters.

[jjktkk]

Anyone who thought Bonner had somehow magically solved his playoff-choking woes versus the Fakers, better think again. The guy has no business on this roster and this series is simply further proof of that. Yet what does Pop do, in a time where the Spurs are needing a solid adjustment, he starts the bitch. Yikes!

He and Gary Neal are indicative of what is wrong with the Spurs role players. The Spurs are in need of well-rounded role players, who can play both ends of the court, not the undersized, underskilled, one-trick ponies, who, in addition to being 3-pt chuckers, couldn't defend their way out of a paper bag.

Your definition of role players, sounds like a starting caliber player.

[jjktkk]

Anyone who thought Bonner had somehow magically solved his playoff-choking woes versus the Fakers, better think again. The guy has no business on this roster and this series is simply further proof of that. Yet what does Pop do, in a time where the Spurs are needing a solid adjustment, he starts the bitch. Yikes!

He and Gary Neal are indicative of what is wrong with the Spurs role players. The Spurs are in need of well-rounded role players, who can play both ends of the court, not the undersized, underskilled, one-trick ponies, who, in addition to being 3-pt chuckers, couldn't defend their way out of a paper bag.

Your definition of role players, sounds like a starting caliber player.

[tesseractive]

oops

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Your definition of role players, sounds like a starting caliber player.

Danny Green should be a role player. Good on defense and a solid shooter. He cannot create his own shot and he is not an all world defender but he is solid.

Matt Bonner should be the same type great shooter intelligent and determined defense in the post. He as a role but a good close out renders him worthless on offense. It's annoying.

Gary Neal otoh sucks at defense and if he is not contributing on offense then he needs to be yanked for someone else. His defense especially in the first half was an abomination. I feel encouraged because it seems we have figured out to at least slow them down. The second half defense was excellent. We just missed a whole lot of open shots.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Refute it with tangible evidence. Until then, you know nothing about the game.

You want evidence? Look at his freakin' pathetic playoff numbers since he got here.

FG%:

Regular Season, .468
Playoffs, .373

3PT%:

Regular Season, .417
Playoffs, .329

RPG:

Regular Season, 3.3
Playoffs, 2.2

APG:

Regular Season, .7
Playoffs, .4

PPG:

Regular Season, 6.5
Playoffs, 3.2

The clock turns May and he turns into a fucking scrub.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Just to recap the stats for those of you who want to ignore them -

He shoots 10% worse in the playoffs than the regular season, scores half as many points, and does nothing to defend the paint.

This isn't a surprise, teams have six years of tape on this guy. They aren't covering him at the offensive end, and they see an easy layup at the other end if he's the only one there to guard the paint.

Fuck Pop for trotting him out there continually to get skull fucked in the postseason.

[ElNono]

A little surprised we're 50+ posts in and no one has pointed out the obvious -- why Pop started Bonner.

The rationale is, imo, obvious. With no David Lee, GSW has no bigs who can defend outside the rim. Not outside the paint... outside the rim. Bogut's extremely effective under the rim, but doesn't have the quickness to be effective anywhere else. It's why we've seen Duncan get so many shots from the top of the key; GSW would rather keep Bogut inside to collect rebounds and clog the paint to prevent Parker drives. And it's a good strategy too.

So, how do the Spurs counter that? By sending in "another" offensive floor-stretching big. Duncan by himself is a reasonable floor-stretcher for a big, but you can easily use help defense to mitigate that. But put Duncan and Bonner out there together, and the Warriors, THEORETICALLY, are essentially forced to make their defense spread the floor as well. Someone has to cover Bonner out there... that, combined with Duncan being at the top of the key, leads to HUGE space for Parker to drive.

The question then becomes, what affects Bonner's +/-? Given that he doesn't shoot much, this should be obvious.... Bonner's +/- is almost entirely dependent on if Parker and the guards are successfully driving the lane, and if Duncan et al are hitting their jumpers. In Game 2 --- they did not. It's not Bonner's fault. Just like it's not to his credit if it's high. He's practically a decoy.

sup DrZ... :lol

The fact that Bogut won't go away from the paint, no matter if you play Bonner/Diaw or anybody else, make the whole exercise futile. We've also seen, especially on Game 2, that the Warriors do recover pretty well to 3 point shooters, including Bonner. Which is why we've seen him time and time again put the ball on the floor instead of actually getting a shot off.

They're giving both Tony and Tim the jumper. That's going to be there after every Tim/Tony pick & roll. They also know Tony for the most part won't force the issue when facing a shot blocker, and will kick out instead. Which is why recovering to the shooters isn't that complicated for them.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Ummm... where are you getting these numbers?? They are not correct at all. He has shot 40%FG and 37%3PTFG - a far cry from the numbers you've presented. Other numbers are basically irrelevant because he plays 14 minutes a night in the playoffs. Basically playoff numbers for Bonner are more or less irrelevant all together, because of sample size. Fact of the matter is, Bonner is easily one of the best shooters in the league, if not the best. Even if he isn't making shots, he's spreading the floor at PF, which is invaluable in the NBA. Not only is he one of the best shooters in the NBA, he's unquestionably the best big man shooter and one of the only big men in the league that can shoot the 3 and also drive it/handle.

Those are his career numbers since joining the Spurs, for regular season and playoffs.

The minutes defense is a lame one for you, and just doesn't fly. Bonner's minutes, on average, have decreased by 5 minutes a night in the playoffs versus the regular season. That correlates to a 33% drop in minutes played for him.

So, if his stats dropped 33%, you'd have an argument. But his points scored dropped by half. His FG shooting drops off ten points, which should have NO correlation with a decrease in minutes. The only stat that drops in line with his decrease in minutes when looking at regular season to playoffs is rebounding, and let's be honest here - that stat is just absolutely comical. Doesn't matter if you're talking regular season or playoffs, show me big men playing the minutes he plays that can't round up more than 2-3 boards per game.

The dude is a poser, and he's burned this team in the playoffs more than Derek Fisher, Charles Barkley, Dirk Nowitzki, and Kobe Bryant combined.

[td4mvp21]

You're correct. Pop hasn't done that since ... well, since game 1 when he started Diaw and played him 26 minutes. :rolleyes

God, this irritates me even more. I don't see any justification in going away from the frontcourt combo that produced excellent defensive AND offensive numbers all season long in favor of starting Matt Bonner/Gary Neal. It's irrational to me.

[Fabbs]

Ummm... where are you getting these numbers?? They are not correct at all. He has shot 40%FG and 37%3PTFG - a far cry from the numbers you've presented. Other numbers are basically irrelevant because he plays 14 minutes a night in the playoffs. Basically playoff numbers for Bonner are more or less irrelevant all together, because of sample size. Fact of the matter is, Bonner is easily one of the best shooters in the league, if not the best. Even if he isn't making shots, he's spreading the floor at PF, which is invaluable in the NBA. Not only is he one of the best shooters in the NBA, he's unquestionably the best big man shooter and one of the only big men in the league that can shoot the 3 and also drive it/handle.
2/10 troll attempt.
In the event anyone wants further details in addition to the cup Aggie just served Charlie:
"Bonner by the numbers. Reg season and playoffs"

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=194970&highlight=Bonner+by+the+numbers

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Show me big men that can shoot the 3 like he does, put it on the floor and either score or find an open teammate off the dribble? How many are there besides him? Like 2 or 3 in the entire league? Rebounding isn't his strength but he's still at least average at it.

:lmao

He's got one on his team in Diaw, that's a hell of a lot more efficient at it than he is in teh playoffs.


Show me big men that can shoot the 3 like he does

What would we ever do without those two points he scored last night? The five other night. Yeah, he's bringing the fucking rain from downtown!


put it on the floor and either score or find an open teammate off the dribble

7 points and 2 assists so far in this series in 35 minutes. Yeah, that guy's a game changer alright...


How many are there besides him? Like 2 or 3 in the entire league?

7 and 2 in 35 minutes? How many AREN'T like him?!?!?!



Rebounding isn't his strength but he's still at least average at it

Out of 469 players in this league, Matt Bonner ranks 343 in rebounds per game.

He ranks 12th in rebounds per game on the Spurs. The only player who averages less rebounds is Patty Mills, and he's tied with De Colo and Joseph in that department. Last year he only had more RPG than James Anderson, Patty Mills, and Gary Neal.

The guy sucks.

[Fabbs]

The only thing Aggie did was post incorrect stats for Bonner's playoff numbers. Sample size is too small anyway.
You will be soo embraced at your coronation into the next PollyAnna Poppers Party!
Ohh ohhhh ohhhhhh!!
Chump is mixing you a drink as we speak.

[Fabbs]

Ok, now that you've got this moronic statement out of the way, where does he rank per 36 or 48? This is too easy.
Bonner skyrockets to 264th in rebounds per 40 minutes when you include all. Like 5'9" point guards. :lol

Playoffs this season so far?
Of all forwards, Matty is 54th out of 76.
Which is really 54th out of 66.
The last 10 being players like Tracy McGrady with 2 minutes played entirely. :rollin

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Ummm... LMAO??? Diaw cannot shoot like Bonner can. Dude is not even close to the shooter that Bonner is. In fact, more often than not people do not even guard Diaw at the 3 point line.

In fact, Boris Diaw has made as many three pointers in this series as Matt Bonner.



In how many opportunities? Do you reckon he'd score more than 20 points if he got 17 shots last night? Just wondering...


That's because the Red Garter Snake is afraid to shoot. He's put it on the floor and tried to penetrate (comical) more than he's thought about shooting this series. Simply, he's shook. Mental midget. Like every other close playoff series he's been a participant in since 2006.


Ok, now that you've got this moronic statement out of the way, where does he rank per 36 or 48? This is too easy.

Still not even on the right side of the Mendoza Line when looking at rebounds per 48. This is too easy.

[silverblk mystix]

Charlie Sheen gettin facialized severely.

Embarrassing.

[Ice009]

Anyone who thought Bonner had somehow magically solved his playoff-choking woes versus the Fakers, better think again. The guy has no business on this roster and this series is simply further proof of that. Yet what does Pop do, in a time where the Spurs are needing a solid adjustment, he starts the bitch. Yikes!

He and Gary Neal are indicative of what is wrong with the Spurs role players. The Spurs are in need of well-rounded role players, who can play both ends of the court, not the undersized, underskilled, one-trick ponies, who, in addition to being 3-pt chuckers, couldn't defend their way out of a paper bag.

I just don't get it. What is the point of Matt Bonner, Gary Neal and other one dimensional role players/shooters that the Spurs keep signing in the last 5 years or so. Once the legit teams clamp down on them defensively and take away their shots, they become completely useless out there. There is no point to even having them on the team, let alone the court.

Why not just do what I want and get some guys that can rebound, play defense, crash the boards and make athletic plays out there to keep the ball alive? That stuff won't disappear in the playoffs like one dimensional shooters can/do. If you're not going to get shooting out of Bonner and Neal in playoffs, then why not get someone that will give you something more consistent like defense, rebounding, the ability to make an athletic play? That is certainly better than getting nothing.

NO WAY would Pat Riley or Phil Jackson start him on a contending team, ever. If Pat Riley doesn't have an All-start type player he would rather start a guy like Joel Anthony, because even though he can't score for shit, he can still play defense and rebound. He knows that, that goes a lot further towards winning than one dimensional shooters do. Pop has completely lost it with this approach that he is taking. He is a straight liar too. Talking about defense all throughout the season and then starting Bonner and Neal in playoff games.

Also, being smart a smart player like Bonner on and off the court is one thing, but that doesn't really mean shit if you can do anything out on the court after the defense takes away your only skill. The Spurs keeping Bonner because of his basketball smarts and always choosing him over anyone remotely athletic is just stupid. Einstein was one smart guy, but he'd have no business being on the court and starting for an NBA team looking to win the championship.

[HI-FI]

I just don't get it. What is the point of Matt Bonner, Gary Neal and other one dimensional role players/shooters that the Spurs keep signing in the last 5 years or so. Once the legit teams clamp down on them defensively and take away their shots, they become completely useless out there. There is no point to even having them on the team, let alone the court.

Why not just do what I want and get some guys that can rebound, play defense, crash the boards and make athletic plays out there to keep the ball alive? That stuff won't disappear in the playoffs like one dimensional shooters can/do. If you're not going to get shooting out of Bonner and Neal in playoffs, then why not get someone that will give you something more consistent like defense, rebounding, the ability to make an athletic play? That is certainly better than getting nothing.

NO WAY would Pat Riley or Phil Jackson start him on a contending team, ever. If Pat Riley doesn't have an All-start type player he would rather start a guy like Joel Anthony, because even though he can't score for shit, he can still play defense and rebound. He knows that, that goes a lot further towards winning than one dimensional shooters do. Pop has completely lost it with this approach that he is taking. He is a straight liar too. Talking about defense all throughout the season and then starting Bonner and Neal in playoff games.

Also, being smart a smart player like Bonner on and off the court is one thing, but that doesn't really mean shit if you can do anything out on the court after the defense takes away your only skill. The Spurs keeping Bonner because of his basketball smarts and always choosing him over anyone remotely athletic is just stupid. Einstein was one smart guy, but he'd have no business being on the court and starting for an NBA team looking to win the championship.

to you and SenorSpur's point, i remember reading somewhere that Pop loves finding guys who can do one thing really well. So this could be on Pop. Why he wants guys who are more one dimensional than being well rounded, I'm not quite sure. I suppose it makes the system sound better.

I like Bonner, but it's more on Pop for using him beyond his capabilities.

Still, I'm not giving up on this season yet. We'll see how it all shakes out. Regardless of what happens, this will be an interesting offseason.

[SenorSpur]

to you and SenorSpur's point, i remember reading somewhere that Pop loves finding guys who can do one thing really well. So this could be on Pop. Why he wants guys who are more one dimensional than being well rounded, I'm not quite sure. I suppose it makes the system sound better.

I like Bonner, but it's more on Pop for using him beyond his capabilities.

Still, I'm not giving up on this season yet. We'll see how it all shakes out. Regardless of what happens, this will be an interesting offseason.

It doesn't make much difference once an opposing team locks in on a player's one skill and takes it away. We've seen this time and again in the playoffs, where it relates to one-trick ponies like Bonner and Neal. Defenses simply force them away from what they do best and unfortunately they have no counter. Bonner isn't Robert Horry and he never will be. Neal isn't a backup PG and he never will be.

For all Pop's supposed baskettball genius, he's an idiot for not only believing in such a philosophy regarding one-tooled players, but also for gambling away the final years of Duncan's HOF career by wasting roster spots on players like these.

[milkyway21]

Bonner is a player, a scorer from the perimeter, beyond the arc, but not on constant basis. Sometimes he's hot, sometimes though he's not..& when he's not he's like a zombie :lmao

Joke.

[SenorSpur]

Your definition of role players, sounds like a starting caliber player.

Ever hear of Taj Gibson and Jimmy Butler for Chicago? Darrell Arthur for Memphis? Or how about Jarrett Jack for the Warriors? All of which are contributing role players for their respective teams and all of which can play both ends of the court. It isn't rocket science. Pop has invested himself in a philosophy where he favors one-tooled players and it has continually back-fired on him. It's about time he get a clue.

[rmt]

May be true but he's not going to play a player big minutes when 1, hasn't practiced, 2, first any kind of full court action in almost 2 weeks.

You can disagree, but those are facts.

Then explain why Diaw played 26 minutes in game 1 and only 7 minutes in game 2 especially after his great game 1 performance. When ball movement and defending players on the perimeter (on the switch) are needed, why would one play Bonner over Diaw?

[milkyway21]

No, they aren't. In the playoffs he has shot 40% FG and 37% 3PTFG for the spurs in his career.



Actually, it isn't. 5 minutes per game is huge when he's already playing extremely limited minutes as-is.


Show me big men that can shoot the 3 like he does, put it on the floor and either score or find an open teammate off the dribble? How many are there besides him? Like 2 or 3 in the entire league? Rebounding isn't his strength but he's still at least average at it. If you want to say he's awful at blocking shots, I'd agree with you, but his rebounding is fine.

Okay he helped the Spurs once in the 1st series..but that was it SO FAR!
Even if Bonner can shoot 42% from the 3pt line but IF HE'S AFRAID TO SHOOT EVERYTIME HE'S ON THE FLOOR, the high % don't matter.

that guy has no guts or the confidence...even if he has the ball & he's open, there's no guaranty he'll let it fly..

[Dre_7]

A little surprised we're 50+ posts in and no one has pointed out the obvious -- why Pop started Bonner.

The rationale is, imo, obvious. With no David Lee, GSW has no bigs who can defend outside the rim. Not outside the paint... outside the rim. Bogut's extremely effective under the rim, but doesn't have the quickness to be effective anywhere else. It's why we've seen Duncan get so many shots from the top of the key; GSW would rather keep Bogut inside to collect rebounds and clog the paint to prevent Parker drives. And it's a good strategy too.

So, how do the Spurs counter that? By sending in "another" offensive floor-stretching big. Duncan by himself is a reasonable floor-stretcher for a big, but you can easily use help defense to mitigate that. But put Duncan and Bonner out there together, and the Warriors, THEORETICALLY, are essentially forced to make their defense spread the floor as well. Someone has to cover Bonner out there... that, combined with Duncan being at the top of the key, leads to HUGE space for Parker to drive.

The question then becomes, what affects Bonner's +/-? Given that he doesn't shoot much, this should be obvious.... Bonner's +/- is almost entirely dependent on if Parker and the guards are successfully driving the lane, and if Duncan et al are hitting their jumpers. In Game 2 --- they did not. It's not Bonner's fault. Just like it's not to his credit if it's high. He's practically a decoy.

This!

It is so funny reading you guys go back and forth about Bonner. No he shouldnt have been givin the start. And no, he didnt give them anything positive. But still, arguing over bonner?? :lol

What you should be pissed about was all the missed layups and free throws. That is what killed the Spurs.

The big 3 and Kawhi need to step up tonight. Bonner's threes (as well as Green's, Neal's, Leonard's, Diaw's, and everyone else's) will go in at a higher rate if the offense is playing effecient Spurs basketball.

[therealtruth]

Okay he helped the Spurs once in the 1st series..but that was it SO FAR!
Even if Bonner can shoot 42% from the 3pt line but IF HE'S AFRAID TO SHOOT EVERYTIME HE'S ON THE FLOOR, the high % don't matter.

that guy has no guts or the confidence...even if he has the ball & he's open, there's no guaranty he'll let it fly..

The reason it worked in the first round is the Lakers bigs were so reluctant to defend him at the 3pt line.

[thOOdee]

You want evidence? Look at his freakin' pathetic playoff numbers since he got here.

FG%:

Regular Season, .468
Playoffs, .373

3PT%:

Regular Season, .417
Playoffs, .329

RPG:

Regular Season, 3.3
Playoffs, 2.2

APG:

Regular Season, .7
Playoffs, .4

PPG:

Regular Season, 6.5
Playoffs, 3.2

The clock turns May and he turns into a fucking scrub.


and to add, thats not even really getting into any defensive statistics....its not a coincidence the year he started playing significant minutes, the spurs have not won a championship since.

[Obstructed_View]

The reason it worked in the first round is the Lakers bigs were so reluctant to defend him at the 3pt line.

The Lakers were overmatched, and Bonner on the floor against Gasol and Howard forced cross matchups. Let's not lose sight of the fact that Bonner was on the floor against the Lakers to foul Dwight Howard.

Matt Bonner does not move better than Tiago Splitter, so a lineup with him in it is NOT IN ANY WAY a "small" lineup, it's a lineup sacrificing defense and rebounding in order to generate offense. During the regular season, lineups with Bonner tended to move the ball around very well. The ball movement is currently not there against the Warriors, so either they've found a way to defend it, or it's run out of mojo. Either way, that means he shouldn't be in the rotation.

[Brazil]

FUCK YOU!! This is just disrespectful to MATT.. Stop making thread like this man.. Have some respect for the guy.. His trying to give everything for this team...

[Spur Bank]

sup DrZ... :lol
I have no idea what you're talking about. :downspin:


The fact that Bogut won't go away from the paint, no matter if you play Bonner/Diaw or anybody else, make the whole exercise futile. We've also seen, especially on Game 2, that the Warriors do recover pretty well to 3 point shooters, including Bonner. Which is why we've seen him time and time again put the ball on the floor instead of actually getting a shot off.

They're giving both Tony and Tim the jumper. That's going to be there after every Tim/Tony pick & roll. They also know Tony for the most part won't force the issue when facing a shot blocker, and will kick out instead. Which is why recovering to the shooters isn't that complicated for them.
Yes, sadly, I agree. GSW is defending the way they should defend ... give up the lower percentage plays (jumpers), defend the higher ones. A Bonner 3 pt shot is one of the highest percentage shots the team has, and they're athletic enough to cover it.

So far, it seems to be a case of a Warriors team that probably could have been defending this well most of the regular season, but "chose" not to, whether due to inexperience, age, rest, or who-knows. I had hoped... even expected... that their poor regular season defense was indicative of a team that simply didn't play good D, but it looks more like it's indicative of a team that wasn't motivated at the time.

[silverblk mystix]

FUCK YOU!! This is just disrespectful to MATT.. Stop making thread like this man.. Have some respect for the guy.. His trying to give everything for this team...

#1) pos Matty is a millionaire - don't feel bad at all for him

#2) Maybe the pos will get inspired enough to say "enough of this shit" and strap on a pair of balls and play with an edge;
a) no more standing at the basket with your arms straight up in the air while a 5'10'' guard shoots over him at will.
b) Take the fuckin shot if you are 6'10'' and have a smaller player running at you
c) If someone wants to iso you - it should insult you and you should foul the fuck out of the player if he is bigger or get physical and bully
the smaller player and make him pay for having the balls to think he can iso you.
d) At the very least use ALL SIX OF YOUR FOULS to get in someone's head and make them want to fight you! At least the pos Red Pussy
will be useful to the team.

[Brazil]

#1) pos Matty is a millionaire - don't feel bad at all for him

#2) Maybe the pos will get inspired enough to say "enough of this shit" and strap on a pair of balls and play with an edge;
a) no more standing at the basket with your arms straight up in the air while a 5'10'' guard shoots over him at will.
b) Take the fuckin shot if you are 6'10'' and have a smaller player running at you
c) If someone wants to iso you - it should insult you and you should foul the fuck out of the player if he is bigger or get physical and bully
the smaller player and make him pay for having the balls to think he can iso you.
d) At the very least use ALL SIX OF YOUR FOULS to get in someone's head and make them want to fight you! At least the pos Red Pussy
will be useful to the team.

:lol

[jesterbobman]

Matt Bonner should not be called upon as the lone big man, that's not his strength. But as a second big Next to Tim or Tiago, it works on both ends. He's a good enough defender(Please stop expecting him to be prime Tim) and the floor spacing means we are really good offensively.

Also, we were outplayed, they have really good shooters, Thompson was on fire and we shot badly. Stop looking for a scapegoat in a role player.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Six minutes with nothing to show for it last night except three bricks from downtown. No boards, nothing. Calling him a mental midget would be a compliment.

Scab.

[Obstructed_View]

Matt Bonner should not be called upon as the lone big man, that's not his strength.
Matt Bonner has one strength, and that's to hit three pointers at a high enough percentage over a long period of time to allow him to eat up regular season minutes for the contributing players so they're fresh for the playoffs.


But as a second big Next to Tim or Tiago, it works on both ends.
1st quarter score with Bonner starting: Warriors 28, Spurs 23
1st quarter score with Splitter starting: Spurs 32, Warriors 23


He's a good enough defender
He's an abysmal individual defender, he's a horrific post defender, and he's a stupid team defender. The only reason his post defense numbers look decent is because he fouls before the shot so often.


(Please stop expecting him to be prime Tim)
:lol Expecting him to be prime time Boris Diaw is setting the bar too high.


and the floor spacing means we are really good offensively.
1st quarter score with Bonner starting: Warriors 28, Spurs 23
1st quarter score with Splitter starting: Spurs 32, Warriors 23


Also, we were outplayed, they have really good shooters, Thompson was on fire and we shot badly. Stop looking for a scapegoat in a role player.
We can stop looking for scapegoats because you used all of them up to defend a role player. :lol

[Spur Bank]

Obstructed_view, why would you spend that much time typing up a post that makes no sense? If you're going to make six individual quotes, please, make a salient point in at least one of them.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Game 1. Absolute garbage. :Td

[imjunsul]

Diaw > Bonner.. CMON POP FREE BORIS

[SA210]

:lol Bonner

[BatManu20]

Bonner is a regular season player. Nothing changed here. Diaw needs to be playing over him. Please.

[racm]

Bonner didn't crack the 10 minute mark and Pop went with Leonard at the 4, geez.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

I'd rather seen Baynes out there than fruity bonehead :td what a tucking zero. Looking t pass as soon as he caught the ball tonight. He was so shook he didn't even catch rim on a layup.

[timtonymanu]

I'm not surprised Bonner sucked tonight. He struggled the same against Golden State. Obviously, he's a better fit against teams that play slow and in the post (Lakers, Grizzlies).

[Yuixafun]

Those back to back missed point blank layups had me heated.

[tesseractive]

I'm not surprised Bonner sucked tonight. He struggled the same against Golden State. Obviously, he's a better fit against teams that play slow and in the post (Lakers, Grizzlies).
He's a purely situational player who only makes sense in certain matchups. He did a nice job in those matchups.

Now it's time for him to sit this series out. Since we seem to be playing some small lineups for a decent chunk of the game, Tim, Tiago and Boris should be all the big men we need for this series unless we run into foul trouble.