NBA All Time Ranks

[King Nupe]

Alright guys, I've noticed that these days everybody wants to rank the NBA Players based on all time rank. I figured out a way to do it thats fair. It's based on a number of criteria that I think determines a rank. I've done one person (My favorite player) Kareem Abdul Jabbar at the bottom as an example. Lets all do a player and figure out the top 10 or 20. No per or other advanced stats are equated. Its obvious that some categories are left out, but I couldn't list all of them or I'd be here all day. This isn't a definitive list, it's just research I'm done for a Statistics Class. The players with the most points would be the best in that order. Please enjoy!

Individual Awards
Hall of Fame: 10pts
Finals MVP: 7pts
Defensive Player of the Year: 6pts
League MVP: 5pts
Allstar game MVP: 4pts
All-star Selections: 4pts
Scoring Titles: 4pts
Rebounding Titles: 4pts
Assist Title: 4pts
Rookie of the Year: 3pts

Individual Feats:
All-time Scoring Rank
#1-5= 10pts
#6-10= 8pts
#11-15= 6pts
#16-20= 4pts
PPG: 15-20 (6 Points), 21-25 (8 points), 26-30 ( 10 points)
RPG: 10-12 ( 6 Points), 13-15 ( 8 Points), 16+ ( 10 points)
70 + Point Games: 10pts
60 + Point Games: 8pts
50 + Point Games: 6pts
60+ Point Game Streak (Minimum 4): 10pts
50+ Point Game Streak (Minimum 4): 8pts
40+ Point Game Streak (Minimum 4): 6pts
Finals MVP Streak (Minimum 2): 10pts
MVP Streak (Minimum 2): 8pts
DPY Streak (Minimum 2) 8pts


Team Awards:
NBA Championships: 10pts
NBA Finals Winning Percentage: (.500 [3] Points), (.600 [4] Points), (.700 [5] points), (.800 [6] points), (.900 [7] points), (1.000 [8] points)
NBA Finals Appearance: 3pts
Olympic Gold Medals: 8pts
Olympic Silver Medals: (-5)pts
Olympic Bronze Medals: (-10)pts
Conference Championships: 6pts
Division Titles: 3pts



I got 320pts with Kareem as opposed to 30 points for Derek Fisher. So no Fisher isn't better than lebron because he has 5 titles

[King Nupe]

The reason, League MVP is lower that DPOY because its MEDIA voted, not player or coach voted.

[Technique]

Hollinger would be proud

[BatManu20]

Tim Duncan's #1. That's all that matters.

[King Nupe]

What do you guys think?

[Arcadian]

The reason, League MVP is lower that DPOY because its MEDIA voted, not player or coach voted.



But DPOY is also media voted.

[King Nupe]

Tim Duncan's #1. That's all that matters.

C'mon man, Add up Tim's numbers and see where he ranks.

[King Nupe]

Buy DPOY is also media voted.

No it isn't. The only media award is MVP. DPOY is done by the League

[Arcadian]

No it isn't. The only media award is MVP. DPOY is done by the League



Even still, MVP is a 2-way award (offense and defense), and the media usually gets it right. It should be worth more than DPOY for sure.

[King Nupe]

Even still, MVP is a 2-way award (offense and defense), and the media usually gets it right. It should be worth more than DPOY for sure.


MVP is a popularity contest. Thats why Derrick Rose won in 2011, and Kobe didn't over Steve Nash. You get points for it, but I'm not giving it more than it deserves.

[midnightpulp]

All Star selections should be left out, since the fans vote for the starters. Yao Ming made the All Star game one year without even playing a game, iirc. I'd replace All Star selections with All NBA selections and value the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd teams accordingly.

This is a novel idea, but I can already see it heavily favors scorers.

[midnightpulp]

Oh, and :lol at awarding the All Star game MVP any amount of points.

[BatManu20]

f

[baseline bum]

Should subtract 100 points for rape charges and 50 per bastard child tbh.

[King Nupe]

All Star selections should be left out, since the fans vote for the starters. Yao Ming made the All Star game one year without even playing a game, iirc. I'd replace All Star selections with All NBA selections and value the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd teams accordingly.

This is a novel idea, but I can already see it heavily favors scorers.


I can see your point. Allstar selections are relevant. Fan's vote for Starters, but I can see your point. But there should be a reward for making the allstar game and Winning MVP. I don't see the issue.

[Arcadian]

MVP is a popularity contest. Thats why Derrick Rose won in 2011, and Kobe didn't over Steve Nash. You get points for it, but I'm not giving it more than it deserves.



OK, so you gave 2 examples of questionable MVP selections. Usually, they get it right. DPOY, on the other hand, has gone to the wrong person many times. So I don't care if it's a league award; it's still less meaningful than MVP.

Do you really think Ben Wallace's 4 DPOY awards is more impressive than Tim Duncan's 2 MVPs? :lol No.

[King Nupe]

Oh, and :lol at awarding the All Star game MVP any amount of points.


Its based on performance against the Worlds best players with EVERYBODY trying to get it. It is an accomplishment. At least its not Dan Lebatard voting for lebron or Mike Wilbon voting for Derrick Rose because thats their hometown and favorite players. C'mon man.

[midnightpulp]

Gimmie a few here. Going to compare David Robinson and Tim Duncan, pretending as if their careers ended by their 6th year. That ends Robinson's career in '95, his MVP year, and Duncan's in '03, his MVP and Finals MVP year.

If Robinson comes out ahead or is even a little bit close, we know you criteria needs major revision.

[King Nupe]

OK, so you gave 2 examples of questionable MVP selections. Usually, they get it right. DPOY, on the other hand, has gone to the wrong person many times. So I don't care if it's a league award; it's still less meaningful than MVP.

Do you really think Ben Wallace's 3 DPOY awards is more impressive than Tim Duncan's 2 MVPs? :lol No.


Yes, but I also think Tim deserved at least 2 in his career. Ben Wallace did matter because he anchored the Defense of a Championship Team and out muscled shaq in the finals. It is relevant to that extent.

Barkley and Malone stole MVP's from MJ because of voter fatigue. Shaq and Kobe only have 1 each, Nash has 2 straight :rollin

[King Nupe]

Gimmie a few here. Going to compare David Robinson and Tim Duncan, pretending as if their careers ended by their 6th year. That ends Robinson's career in '95, his MVP year, and Duncan's in '03, his MVP and Finals MVP year.

If Robinson comes out ahead or is even a little bit close, we know you criteria needs major revision.

Robinson was a GREAT Player. 2 Gold Medals to Dunans None, 2 Championships, League MVP, DPOY ( Duncan 0)

So its concievable, that after only 6 years, Robinson ranks close

[Technique]

This whole system is a set up. Top 3 are all Lakers.

[King Nupe]

Who are the Top 3 lakers? I would probably be Magic, Kareem and Wilt. That isn't inconceivable is it?

[Arcadian]

Yes, but I also think Tim deserved at least 2 in his career.

Exactly, but he didn't. So how are you gonna make that worth more when it often goes to the wrong person?


Ben Wallace did matter because he anchored the Defense of a Championship Team and out muscled shaq in the finals. It is relevant to that extent.

He mattered, but not more than the MVP mattered to his team.


Barkley and Malone stole MVP's from MJ because of voter fatigue. Shaq and Kobe only have 1 each, Nash has 2 straight

Barkley was arguably the best player in 1993. That wasn't a bad choice. Malone perhaps not so much - but again, he was still more valuable than that year's DPOY.

[King Nupe]

This whole system is a set up. Top 3 are all Lakers.

Most people would put at least 5 of the top 10 All time players as lakers. So I don't see how that's crazy.

[King Nupe]

Exactly, but he didn't. So how are you gonna make that worth more when it often goes to the wrong person?



He mattered, but not more than the MVP mattered to his team.



Barkley was arguably the best player in 1993. That wasn't a bad choice. Malone perhaps not so much - but again, he was still more valuable than that year's DPOY.


Barkley was not Better than MJ in 1993. Also Ben Wallace made Detroit one of the Greatest Defensive teams of ALL TIME. How is that irrelevant?

[Technique]

Here's what you did: Looked at Kobe's career achievements and made a point system out of it.

:lol

[Arcadian]

Barkley was not Better than MJ in 1993. Also Ben Wallace made Detroit one of the Greatest Defensive teams of ALL TIME. How is that irrelevant?



I didn't say it was irrelevant. Just less relevant than the MVP. I think this is very clear cut, and you should make DPOY worth 3 instead of 6.

Otherwise, it's an interesting idea.

[midnightpulp]

Its based on performance against the Worlds best players with EVERYBODY trying to get it. It is an accomplishment. At least its not Dan Lebatard voting for lebron or Mike Wilbon voting for Derrick Rose because thats their hometown and favorite players. C'mon man.

It's a meaningless exhibition game and quite often you'll see players deferring to the hometown star trying to manufacture a big performance for him.

And while the "world's best players" might be playing against each other, they're not exactly playing the world's best defense against each other. Furthermore, the game is tailor made for perimeter players. Shaq and Duncan were the only bigs to win the award in the past 20 years.

I understand why you included it, since Kobe has 4 of them, but if we put it to a vote asking if All Star game MVPs should be considered in the evaluation of a player's legacy, no objective NBA fan would vote "yes."

[King Nupe]

It's a meaningless exhibition game and quite often you'll see players deferring to the hometown star trying to manufacture a big performance for him.

And while the "world's best players" might be playing against each other, they're not exactly playing the world's best defense against each other. Furthermore, the game is tailor made for perimeter players. Shaq and Duncan were the only bigs to win the award in the past 20 years.

I understand why you included it, since Kobe has 4 of them, but if we put it to a vote asking if All Star game MVPs should be considered in the evaluation of a player's legacy, no objective NBA fan would vote "yes."



Doesn't MJ have like 4 of them? Kareem does too. But I suppose you have a point.

[King Nupe]

Well, maybe we can refine the system. Everybody list what you think should be removed and added. NO AGENDA's please.

[King Nupe]

It's a meaningless exhibition game and quite often you'll see players deferring to the hometown star trying to manufacture a big performance for him.

And while the "world's best players" might be playing against each other, they're not exactly playing the world's best defense against each other. Furthermore, the game is tailor made for perimeter players. Shaq and Duncan were the only bigs to win the award in the past 20 years.

I understand why you included it, since Kobe has 4 of them, but if we put it to a vote asking if All Star game MVPs should be considered in the evaluation of a player's legacy, no objective NBA fan would vote "yes."


Also, how is that award not relevant to the legacy? Maybe the points should be lowered for it, but it should count. SOMEBODY has to win it right?

[midnightpulp]

I can see your point. Allstar selections are relevant. Fan's vote for Starters, but I can see your point. But there should be a reward for making the allstar game and Winning MVP. I don't see the issue.

No there shouldn't.

You also have to consider that All Star star voting starts at about 30 games into the season.

[King Nupe]

No there shouldn't.

You also have to consider that All Star star voting starts at about 30 games into the season.


Ok, but the Difference between MJ and Lamar Odom is not only the Stats, but also the IMPACT on the league, or Marketability.l I think that weighs in on the legacy right? People vote for MJ because he's Great AND he's great to see. Nobody cares about Lamar Odom or Hasheem Thabeet. They aren't superstars, and they aren't Box office.

[whitemamba]

Ok, but the Difference between MJ and Lamar Odom is not only the Status, but also the IMPACT on the league, or Marketability.l I think that weighs in on the legacy right? People vote for MJ because he's Great AND he's great to see. Nobody cares about Lamar Odom or Hasheem Thabeet. They aren't superstars, and they aren't Box office.

Mj and Lamar in the same discussion doesnt make sense.

[King Nupe]

Mj and Lamar in the same discussion doesnt make sense.


Neither does MJ and Durant. But the thing they have in common is the fact that people wanted to see them. They are both Superstars. Granted no where near the same tier, but they're both Superstars

[whitemamba]

Neither does MJ and Durant. But the thing they have in common is the fact that people wanted to see them. They are both Superstars. Granted no where near the same tier, but they're both Superstars

MJ is a legend not a superstar.

[King Nupe]

MJ is a legend not a superstar.


Durant will be too. But the point is, No matter how much better MJ was than Durant, the fact they are both Allstars brings them to an equal level in that subject matter

[DAF86]

What do you guys think?

Could be nice without your retarded biased pts criteria.

[midnightpulp]

Comparing Duncan and Robinson's first 6 seasons.

David Robinson: 183

Tim Duncan: 176

Needs revision, bro.

[Killakobe81]

I think it could have merit but ...
ASG appearances should be less points,
Mvp's (regular season) should mean less ...
All the awards should mean less tbh ...

ALL NBA teams only decent one left ...
but Lebron winning 4 of 5 MVPs gives me hope but doesent erase the bullshit before it ...













8

[midnightpulp]

Comparing Duncan and Robinson's first 6 seasons.

David Robinson: 183

Tim Duncan: 176

Needs revision, bro.

And just to clarify, for this experiment, I pretended both players retired after their 6th season, so Robinson got no credit for the championships he won and Duncan wasn't penalized for the '04 Bronze medal. Any system that would have a 2 time champion and 2 time Finals MVP winner beneath a regular season monster but playoff choker (as was Robinson's reputation at the time) with no rings and no Finals MVPs is pretty flawed.

[King Nupe]

But that's the problem. Duncan has played 16 season not 6. If you do his entire career, Tim will be easily ahead

[midnightpulp]

But that's the problem. Duncan has played 16 season not 6. If you do his entire career, Tim will be easily ahead

I realize that. The point of comparing their first six seasons was to highlight the flaws in your criteria. Even before I undertook the comparison, I already knew Robinson would likely come out ahead, because your system is heavily, heavily biased toward scoring. For example, Allen Iverson's 30 point per game season on a horrific 39% shooting is given the same value as winning the Finals MVP.

You don't see a problem with that?

[King Nupe]

I realize that. The point of comparing their first six seasons was to highlight the flaws in your criteria. Even before I undertook the comparison, I already knew Robinson would likely come out ahead, because your system is heavily, heavily biased toward scoring. For example, Allen Iverson's 30 point per game season on a horrific 39% shooting is given the same value as winning the Finals MVP.

You don't see a problem with that?


yeah I do. I should then have points added or deducted based on FG pct. but that in itself is flawed as centers naturally have higher FG pcts than peremiter players.

[King Nupe]

I'm going to go back and add rebounds, assist and blocks to individual achievements. Also, steals, game winning shots and turnovers. There's a lot that needs to be added

[DMC]

While you're at it, subtract 5pt per million dollars of total team salary.

[Arcadian]

yeah I do. I should then have points added or deducted based on FG pct. but that in itself is flawed as centers naturally have higher FG pcts than peremiter players.

No, that's not a flaw - centers are generally more valuable than perimeter players precisely because they take shots closer to the basket (and protect it on defense). That's what traditional basketball is all about. And that should be reflected in your scoring system.

[midnightpulp]

No, that's not a flaw - centers are generally more valuable than perimeter players precisely because they take shots closer to the basket (and protect it on defense). That's what traditional basketball is all about. And that should be reflected in your scoring system.

This.

[100%duncan]

IDK man it takes a lot of time and still wouldn't give a "real" rank.

[JingleJangleJingle]

MJ Wilt Kareem Magic Bird Russell Olajuwon Shaq Duncan and LeBron...those are the top 10 players of all-time...order them anywhere you like.

[Brunodf]

MJ
Magic
Russel
Bird
Kareem
Wilt
Duncan
Kobe
Shaq

[Galileo]

Alright guys, I've noticed that these days everybody wants to rank the NBA Players based on all time rank. I figured out a way to do it thats fair. It's based on a number of criteria that I think determines a rank. I've done one person (My favorite player) Kareem Abdul Jabbar at the bottom as an example. Lets all do a player and figure out the top 10 or 20. No per or other advanced stats are equated. Its obvious that some categories are left out, but I couldn't list all of them or I'd be here all day. This isn't a definitive list, it's just research I'm done for a Statistics Class. The players with the most points would be the best in that order. Please enjoy!

Individual Awards
Hall of Fame: 10pts
Finals MVP: 7pts
Defensive Player of the Year: 6pts
League MVP: 5pts
Allstar game MVP: 4pts
All-star Selections: 4pts
Scoring Titles: 4pts
Rebounding Titles: 4pts
Assist Title: 4pts
Rookie of the Year: 3pts

Individual Feats:
All-time Scoring Rank
#1-5= 10pts
#6-10= 8pts
#11-15= 6pts
#16-20= 4pts
PPG: 15-20 (6 Points), 21-25 (8 points), 26-30 ( 10 points)
RPG: 10-12 ( 6 Points), 13-15 ( 8 Points), 16+ ( 10 points)
70 + Point Games: 10pts
60 + Point Games: 8pts
50 + Point Games: 6pts
60+ Point Game Streak (Minimum 4): 10pts
50+ Point Game Streak (Minimum 4): 8pts
40+ Point Game Streak (Minimum 4): 6pts
Finals MVP Streak (Minimum 2): 10pts
MVP Streak (Minimum 2): 8pts
DPY Streak (Minimum 2) 8pts


Team Awards:
NBA Championships: 10pts
NBA Finals Winning Percentage: (.500 [3] Points), (.600 [4] Points), (.700 [5] points), (.800 [6] points), (.900 [7] points), (1.000 [8] points)
NBA Finals Appearance: 3pts
Olympic Gold Medals: 8pts
Olympic Silver Medals: (-5)pts
Olympic Bronze Medals: (-10)pts
Conference Championships: 6pts
Division Titles: 3pts



I got 320pts with Kareem as opposed to 30 points for Derek Fisher. So no Fisher isn't better than lebron because he has 5 titles

I have a better system, here is the point system:

1 point = for each MVP, Finals MVP, NBA championship, or 1st Team All-NBA

1/2 point = 2nd place MVP voting, NBA FInals loser, 2nd Team All-NBA

1/3 point = 3rd plave MVP, 3rd Team All-NBA

1/4 point = 4th place MVP, all-star selection (w/ out making All-NBA team), conference finals participant

For ABA (or BAA), count all points 1/2 of what you get in the NBA

For NCAA, using equivalnet awards as in NBA and count at 1/2 as well.

Example: Tim Duncan

2 MVPs = 2 points
2 second place = 1 point
1 third place = 1/3 point
1 fourth place = 1/4 point

subtotal = 2 7/12 points

3 Finals MVPs = 3 points
1 second place = 1/2 point

subtotal = 3 1/2 points

4 rings = 4 points
3 conference finals = 3/4 point

subtotal = 4 3/4 points

9 first team all-NBA = 9 points
3 second team all-NBA = 1 1/2 points
1 third team all-NBA = 1/3 point
2 all-star = 1/2 point

subtotal = 11 1/3 points

NCAA

1997 POY = 1/2 point
twice 1st team all-American = 1 point
once 3rd team all-Americam = 1/6 point

subtotal = 2 2/3 points

GRAND TOTAL = 23 5/6 points

I have not done all the math, but I believe Timmy rank about 5th of all time under this system.

Probably Jabbar 1st, then Jordan, then Russell, then either Magic or Timmy, with Bird and Bob Cousy on their heals and Wilt and Shaq, Kobe, Lebron not that far behind. Other high placers would be Elgin Baylor, Hondo, Mailman, Olajuwon, BobPettit, West, Oscar.

This is the best simple point sytem ever devised by mankind, by the genius Galileo, fabled mathematician, astronomy and scientist.

OOPS - I forgot to facter in Olympic ball, but you get the picture.

[King Nupe]

Duncan isn't ahead of wilt man. Wilts stats, feats and records overtake Duncan. That's why I put that there. To recognize players that did extraordinary things.

[King Nupe]

I'm going to tweak the system based on suggestions and also do a list based on the criteria