PDA

View Full Version : The Hardball whooping that Zell Miller got!!!!



JohnnyMarzetti
09-02-2004, 02:30 PM
MATTHEWS: Joe Scarborough, thank you.

Let me go now to the—go right now. We‘re going to joined right now as we speak, and stop speaking, with Zell Miller, the man who made the speech.

Senator, thank you. You have...

(BOOING)

MATTHEWS: Well, don‘t listen to them. Don‘t listen to those people.

We want to hear from you, Senator.

Senator, let me ask you.

(BOOING)

MATTHEWS: I want to ask you about the most powerful line in your speech. And it had so many.

“No pair has been more wrong, more loudly, more often than the two Senators from Massachusetts, Ted Kennedy and John Kerry.”

Do you believe that John Kerry and Ted Kennedy really only believe in defending America with spitballs?

MILLER: Well, I certainly don‘t believe they want to defend America by putting the kind of armor and the kind of equipment that we have got to have out there for our troops. I mean, nothing could be clearer than that, than what John Kerry did when he voted against that $87 billion in appropriations, that would have provided protective armor for our troops and armored vehicles.

MATTHEWS: All right, let me ask you. Senator, you are the expert. Many times, as a conservative Republican, you have had to come out on the floor and obey party whips and vote against big appropriations passed by the Democrats when they were in power.

You weren‘t against feeding poor people. You weren‘t against Social Security. You weren‘t against a lot of programs that, because of the nature of parliamentary procedure and combat, you had to vote against the whole package. Didn‘t you many times vote against whole packages of spending, when you would have gladly gone for a smaller package?

MILLER: Well, I didn‘t make speeches about them and I didn‘t put them in my platform.

Right here is what John Kerry put out as far as his U.S. Senate platform, was, he was talking about he wanted to cancel the M.X. missile, the B-1 bomber, the anti-satellite system. This is not voting for something that was in a big bill.

(CROSSTALK)

MATTHEWS: Which of those systems was effective in either Afghanistan

or Iraq? The M.X. certainly wasn‘t, thank God, nor was the other

(CROSSTALK)

MILLER: Look, this is front and—wait, this is front and back, and it‘s two pages. I have got more documentation here than they have got in the New York Public Library and the Library of Congress.

MATTHEWS: OK.

MILLER: I knew you was going to be coming with all of that stuff.

And I knew that these people from the Kerry campaign would be coming with all this kind of stuff.

That‘s just baloney. Look at the record. A man‘s record is what he is.

MATTHEWS: I agree.

(CROSSTALK)

MILLER: A man‘s campaign rhetoric—what?

MATTHEWS: I‘m just asking you, Senator, do you mean to say—I know there‘s rhetoric in campaigns. I just want to know, do you mean to say that you really believe that John Kerry and Ted Kennedy do not believe in defending the country?

MILLER: Well, look at their votes.

MATTHEWS: I‘m just asking you to bottom-line it for me.

MILLER: Wait a minute. I said I didn‘t question their patriotism.

MATTHEWS: No. Do you believe that they don‘t believe in defending the country?

MILLER: I question their judgment.

What?

MATTHEWS: Do you believe they want to defend the country?

MILLER: Look, I applaud what John Kerry did as far as volunteering to go to Vietnam. I applaud what he did when he volunteered for combat. I admire that, and I respect that. And I acknowledge that. I have said that many, many times.

MATTHEWS: Right.

(CROSSTALK)

MILLER: But I think his record is atrocious.

MATTHEWS: Well, let me ask you, when Democrats come out, as they often do, liberal Democrats, and attack conservatives, and say they want to starve little kids, they want to get rid of education, they want to kill the old people...

MILLER: I am not saying that. Wait a minute.

MATTHEWS: That kind of rhetoric is not educational, is it?

MILLER: Wait a minute.

Now, this is your program. And I am a guest on your program.

MATTHEWS: Yes, sir.

MILLER: And so I want to try to be as nice as I possibly can to you. I wish I was over there, where I could get a little closer up into your face.

(LAUGHTER)

MILLER: But I don‘t have to stand here and listen to that kind of stuff. I didn‘t say anything about not feeding poor kids. What are you doing?

MATTHEWS: No, I‘m saying that when you said tonight—I just want you to...

MILLER: Well, you are saying a bunch of baloney that didn‘t have

anything to do with what I said up there on the

(CROSSTALK)

MILLER: No, no.

MATTHEWS: OK. Do you believe now—do you believe, Senator, truthfully, that John Kerry wants to defend the country with spitballs? Do you believe that?

MILLER: That was a metaphor, wasn‘t it? Do you know what a metaphor is?

MATTHEWS: Well, what do you mean by a metaphor?

MILLER: Wait a minute. He certainly does not want to defend the country with the B-1 bomber or the B-2 bomber or the Harrier jet or the Apache helicopter or all those other things that I mentioned. And there were even more of them in here.

You‘ve got to quit taking these Democratic talking points and using what they are saying to you.

MATTHEWS: No, I am using your talking points and asking you if you really believe them.

MILLER: Well, use John Kerry‘s talking points from the—from what he has had to say on the floor of the Senate, where he talked about them being occupiers, where he put out this whenever he was running for the U.S. Senate about what he wanted to cancel. Cancel to me means to do away with.

MATTHEWS: Well, what did you mean by the following.

MILLER: I think we ought to cancel this interview.

MATTHEWS: Well, I don‘t mean...

(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)

(CROSSTALK)

(LAUGHTER)

MATTHEWS: Well, that would be my loss, Senator. That would be my loss.

Let me ask you about this, because I think you have a view on the role of reporters in the world. You have said and it has often been said so truthfully that it is the soldier, not the reporter, who has given us the freedom of the press. Was there not...

MILLER: Do you believe that?

MATTHEWS: Well, of course it‘s true.

MILLER: Do you believe that?

MATTHEWS: But it‘s a statement that nobody would have challenged. Why did you make it? It seems like no one would deny what you said. So what‘s your point?

MILLER: Well, it evidently got a rise out of you.

MATTHEWS: Well, I think it‘s a

(CROSSTALK)

MILLER: Because you are a reporter.

MATTHEWS: That‘s right.

MILLER: You didn‘t have anything to do with freedom of the press.

MATTHEWS: Well, you could argue it was not nurses who defended the freedom of nursing. Why did you single out freedom of the press to say it was the soldiers that defended it and not the reporters? We all know that. Why did you say it?

MILLER: Well, because I thought it needed to be said at this particular time, because I wanted to come on...

MATTHEWS: Because you could get an applause line against the media at a conservative convention.

MILLER: No, I said it because it was—you‘re hopeless. I wish I was over there.

(LAUGHTER)

(CROSSTALK)

MILLER: In fact, I wish that we lived in—I wish we lived in the

day

(CROSSTALK)

MATTHEWS: I‘ve got to warn you, we are in a tough part of town over here.

(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)

MATTHEWS: But I do recommend you come over, because I like you.

Let me tell you this.

MILLER: Chris.

MATTHEWS: If a Republican Senator broke ranks and—all right, I‘m sorry.

A Republican Senator broke ranks and came over and spoke for the Democrats, would you respect him?

MILLER: Yes, of course I would.

MATTHEWS: Why?

MILLER: I have seen that happen from time to time. Look, I believe...

(CROSSTALK)

MATTHEWS: What does Jim Jeffords say to you?

MILLER: Wait a minute.

(CROSSTALK)

MATTHEWS: Jim Jeffords switched parties after getting elected.

MILLER: If you‘re going to ask a question...

MATTHEWS: Well, it‘s a tough question. It takes a few words.

MILLER: Get out of my face.

(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)

MILLER: If you are going to ask me a question, step back and let me answer.

(LAUGHTER)

MATTHEWS: Senator, please.

MILLER: You know, I wish we...

(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)

MILLER: I wish we lived in the day where you could challenge a person to a duel.

(LAUGHTER)

MILLER: Now, that would be pretty good.

Don‘t ask me—don‘t pull that...

(CROSSTALK)

MATTHEWS: Can you can come over? I need you, Senator. Please come over.

MILLER: Wait a minute. Don‘t pull that kind of stuff on me, like you did that young lady when you had her there, browbeating her to death. I am not her. I am not her.

(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)

(CROSSTALK)

MATTHEWS: Let me tell you, she was suggesting that John Kerry purposely shot himself to win a medal. And I was trying to correct the record.

MILLER: You get in my face, I am going to get back in your face.

(CROSSTALK)

MILLER: The only reason you are doing it is because you are standing way over there in Herald Square.

(LAUGHTER)

MATTHEWS: Senator, Senator, can I speak softly to you? I would really like you to...

MILLER: What? No, no, no, because you won‘t give me a chance to answer. You ask these questions and then you just talk over what I am trying to answer, just like you did that woman the other day.

MATTHEWS: Well, Senator...

MILLER: I don‘t know why I even came on this program.

MATTHEWS: Well, I am glad you did.

(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)

MATTHEWS: Let me ask you this about John Kerry‘s war record.

MILLER: Well, are you going to shut up after you ask me?

(LAUGHTER)

MILLER: Or are you going to give me a chance to answer it?

MATTHEWS: Yes, sir.

(LAUGHTER)

MATTHEWS: I am going to give you a chance to answer.

You used very strong words tonight about the Democratic candidate, much stronger than you are using with me. And they will be remembered a lot longer than anything you say to me now. So I am not really worried about what you say now, except that this country was promised unity after the last election by the president that you are supporting. And he urged the country to come together. Do you think you helped that cause tonight?

MILLER: I think I helped the cause of trying to tell the American people why John Kerry is unfit for the presidency and why we need to keep George W. Bush in as the president, because it‘s the way that we can keep this nation more secure and my family more safe.

MATTHEWS: Did I ask you about your role in the Democratic Party, because you have caused such a hit tonight, because you are a man of the Democratic Party? Long before this election, you had to watch as a Southern conservative the nomination by your party of people like George McGovern, Fritz Mondale, Jimmy Carter, liberal after liberal after liberal, including Mike Dukakis, perhaps the most liberal of them all. What caused you to cross the aisle tonight?

MILLER: By coming to Washington and seeing firsthand what a mess it is and how far out the Senate Democrats are.

They are off the chart as far as being with the mainstream of America. I think the straw that broke the camel‘s back was the homeland security measure, when, time after time, John Kerry and the Democrats put collective bargaining above homeland security. That did it for me.

MATTHEWS: Well, that did it for Max Cleland as well, didn‘t it?

MILLER: It surely did. And probably Jean Carnahan.

And nobody is to blame, except—well, they are to blame because they voted that way. But who is really to blame is Tom Daschle for insisting that they do it 11 times over a four-months period. It was dumb.

MATTHEWS: And, well, you could argue that it was politically dumb of Max Cleland to support the labor unions in Georgia against what looked like the national interests. My question is, is it good for America to impugn that vote as a vote against the security of this country?

MILLER: That vote was not impugned. He did not get defeated because of that ad that you like to talk about. You can‘t vote with Tom Daschle 85 percent of the time and be expected to be able to be reelected in Georgia. You know that much about Georgia and the South.

MATTHEWS: Well, sir, I also know the—and I completely agree with the need to get reelected as a statesman. Jefferson said the first order of a statesman was to get elected.

I am just wondering if you think tonight‘s speech and advertisements that show people like Max Cleland standing next to Saddam Hussein are helping bring this country together?

MILLER: That didn‘t have anything to do with Max Cleland‘s defeat.

We have already—we have already beat that dog to death.

(LAUGHTER)

MATTHEWS: Well, maybe the war did that, too.

But thank you very much for coming here tonight. I hope we can have a more civil conversation in closer terms. I would love you to come tonight. In fact, you can meet with Joe Scarborough, who will probably be nicer to you.

(LAUGHTER)

MATTHEWS: But we will both try to get the truth out of the conversation.

And I feel bad that you are upset with me, Senator. I have never had this kind of a fight with you before.

MILLER: I know it.

MATTHEWS: I think you misheard me. But please come over tomorrow night. We‘ve got a convention ending.

And, by the way, you will help our ratings tremendously if you come over tomorrow night, because everybody thinks you are going to beat me up.

(LAUGHTER)

MATTHEWS: But since somebody tried to do that last night, I don‘t think it‘s going to be a surprise.


The line for the transcript is here : msnbc.msn.com/id/5892840/ (http://msnbc.msn.com/id/5892840/)

Tommy Duncan
09-02-2004, 02:33 PM
You are deluding yourself.

bigzak25
09-02-2004, 02:41 PM
do you mean to say that you really believe that John Kerry and Ted Kennedy do not believe in defending the country?




YES. :next3


jellyfish backbones. all talk, no action.

The best line of last night...."George Bush will never seek a permission slip to defend the United States of America."

Yonivore
09-02-2004, 02:42 PM
Zell should have just said that while Kerry may not want to defend America with spitballs, his voting record on military issues would have reduced his arsenal to that -- if his positions had been in the majority. Thank God they weren't.

Chris Matthews is a bombastic harrasser just like O'Reilly. Neither one of them are credible journalists or news people; or interviewers for that matter. They're into "gotcha" T.V.

Tommy Duncan
09-02-2004, 02:50 PM
I actually saw the video of Matthews v. Miller. Miller more than held his own.

The thing the left doesn't understand is that the more they try to dump on Miller, the more they prove his point and ultimately help Bush.

If Chris Matthews wasn't such a rude jerk then perhaps Miller's response would have seemed out of place. Instead it was totally appropriate.

Spurminator
09-02-2004, 02:55 PM
People watch Chris Matthews?

T Park Num 9
09-02-2004, 02:58 PM
Miller/Guiliani 08


Im all for that ticket.

Bandit2981
09-02-2004, 03:04 PM
i thought it was funny, miller had me laughing my ass off...GET OUT OF MY FACE!! :lol

Nbadan
09-02-2004, 03:16 PM
Miller made a complete idiot of himself challenging Matthews to a duel. Shows the era of thinking that Miller is trapped in. He is a embarrassment to the state of Kansas.

Yonivore
09-02-2004, 03:20 PM
Kansas?

SpursWoman
09-02-2004, 03:21 PM
I loved that duel challenge part.


Matthews was awful. Asking Miller questions and then talking over him so he couldn't really respond. I don't blame him for getting pissed off.

My daughter likes to do that to me when she's in trouble. Doesn't sit well with mom, either. :tyson

Yonivore
09-02-2004, 03:22 PM
And she doesn't sit well afterward, right?

SpursWoman
09-02-2004, 03:25 PM
True, but not because I challenge her to a duel. :fro

Yonivore
09-02-2004, 03:27 PM
I hear ya!

Nbadan
09-02-2004, 03:27 PM
Miller lost his cool and that never plays well with swing voters.

Yonivore
09-02-2004, 03:31 PM
Yeah...keep tellin' yourse that.

Tommy Duncan
09-02-2004, 03:34 PM
It's not swing voters that Miller is after. He is after moderate to conservative Democrats who tend to believe in things such as a strong defense and traditional values. People who tend to be a little wary of their party's leadership on those issues.

Miller is going to help Bush a lot in north Florida, Missouri, rural Pennsylvania, Ohio, and West Virginia.

JohnnyMarzetti
09-02-2004, 03:47 PM
Mathews kicked his ass and you conservatives just can't stand it. Miller is a zell out.


This is hilarious (http://miller.senate.gov/speeches/030101jjdinner.htm)

Introduction of Senator John Kerry

Democratic Party of Georgia's
Jefferson-Jackson Dinner

March 1, 2001


It is good to be back in Georgia and to be with you. I have been coming to these dinners since the 1950s, and have missed very few.

I'm proud to be Georgia's junior senator and I'm honored to serve with Max Cleland, who is as loved and respected as anyone in that body. One of our very highest priorities must be to make sure this man is re-elected in 2002 so he can continue to serve this state and nation.

I continue to be impressed with all that Governor Barnes and Lieutenant Governor Taylor and the Speaker and the General Assembly are getting done over at the Gold Dome. Georgia is fortunate to have this kind of leadership.

My job tonight is an easy one: to present to you one of this nation's authentic heroes, one of this party's best-known and greatest leaders – and a good friend.

He was once a lieutenant governor – but he didn't stay in that office 16 years, like someone else I know. It just took two years before the people of Massachusetts moved him into the United States Senate in 1984.

In his 16 years in the Senate, John Kerry has fought against government waste and worked hard to bring some accountability to Washington.

Early in his Senate career in 1986, John signed on to the Gramm-Rudman-Hollings Deficit Reduction Bill, and he fought for balanced budgets before it was considered politically correct for Democrats to do so.

John has worked to strengthen our military, reform public education, boost the economy and protect the environment. Business Week magazine named him one of the top pro-technology legislators and made him a member of its "Digital Dozen."

John was re-elected in 1990 and again in 1996 – when he defeated popular Republican Governor William Weld in the most closely watched Senate race in the country.

John is a graduate of Yale University and was a gunboat officer in the Navy. He received a Silver Star, Bronze Star and three awards of the Purple Heart for combat duty in Vietnam. He later co-founded the Vietnam Veterans of America.

He is married to Teresa Heinz and they have two daughters.

As many of you know, I have great affection – some might say an obsession – for my two Labrador retrievers, Gus and Woodrow. It turns out John is a fellow dog lover, too, and he better be. His German Shepherd, Kim, is about to have puppies. And I just want him to know … Gus and Woodrow had nothing to do with that.

Ladies and Gentlemen, please welcome Senator John Kerry.

Flip-flop?

Tommy Duncan
09-02-2004, 03:53 PM
You wish. The problem for you is that Miller 'whupped up' on Kerry even worse than you think Matthews did to Miller.

Get your head out of your ass.

Yonivore
09-02-2004, 04:24 PM
You know, I don't know why we're arguing this. Zell Miller's impact will be known on election day.

Republicans think he helped.
Demoncrats obviously think he didn't.

Why do you think attacking him, after the fact, helps your cause? It just makes you look desperate.

Nbadan
09-02-2004, 04:29 PM
Why do you think attacking him, after the fact, helps your cause? It just makes you look desperate.

And constantly attacking Kerry, without going into specifics about how the Republicans would do things differently than the status quo isn't desperate, right?

Yonivore
09-02-2004, 04:34 PM
"And constantly attacking Kerry,..."
What? By talking about his Senate voting record and anti-war activities and how those might affect his decision-making as Commander in Chief? That's not attacking, that's called defining your opponent.

"...without going into specifics about how the Republicans would do things differently than the status quo"
Well, technically, the status quo is the Republican way of doing things...since they're in charge. So, to say that President Bush would continue to do what he's doing is farly specific.

"...isn't desperate, right?"
Nope. It isn't.

bigzak25
09-02-2004, 04:35 PM
without going into specifics about how...(one) would do things differently


you guys wrote the book.

Nbadan
09-02-2004, 05:00 PM
Well, technically, the status quo is the Republican way of doing things...since they're in charge. So, to say that President Bush would continue to do what he's doing is farly specific.

What voters want to see from both parties is their plan for the future, because let me tell you, to voters, the plan right now ain't working.

I think that is what W. is gonna try and do tonight. Lay down the Repubican's plan for the future, but excuse me if I don't fall for W.'s pie in the sky dreams in tonight's acceptance speech, like going to Mars, at least, not without a realistic plan about how it is gonna get done.

Hook Dem
09-02-2004, 05:07 PM
It's hell to be wrong isn't it Dan?:lol

Nbadan
09-02-2004, 05:11 PM
It's hell to be wrong isn't it Dan?

I don't recall being wrong lately? My $4 gas prediction will take time, but even that will happen, you'll see.

Yonivore
09-02-2004, 05:16 PM
Well, when you're wrong by at least 20 point on election day, will you eat crow?

I'm predicting Bush in a 10 point or better landslide and have been since February. You say Kerry by at least 10. One of us is way wrong.

See you on November 2.

JohnnyMarzetti
09-02-2004, 05:32 PM
I think Kerry will shake up the world by knocking Dubya out faster then a loaded pretzel.

Tommy Duncan
09-02-2004, 05:36 PM
Unless someone can graft Kerry's face onto Clinton's head it isn't happening.

Face it, the Democrats managed to nominate the wrong guy.

SpursWoman
09-02-2004, 05:38 PM
Lay down the Repubican's plan for the future, but excuse me if I don't fall for W.'s pie in the sky dreams in tonight's acceptance speech, like going to Mars, at least, not without a realistic plan about how it is gonna get done.


And you couldn't make this statement of Kerry, how? :wink

Yonivore
09-02-2004, 05:39 PM
Just out of curiosity, who would have been the "right" guy?

Tommy Duncan
09-02-2004, 05:47 PM
None of the guys who ran, basically.

I would say someone like Nebraska Senator Ben Nelson or Indiana Senator Evan Bayh. Both had been Democrat Governors of historically strong GOP states. The Demos should have had a guy at the top of the ticket who did not have a long and well documented extreme liberal voting record. You want someone with a more moderate past and image.

At this point John Edwards would have been an improvement.

Nbadan
09-02-2004, 05:51 PM
And you couldn't make this statement of Kerry, how?

Oh, you can, but Bush should have a realistic plan for the future since he is the one who got us into the Iraq mess in the first place.

Opinionater
09-02-2004, 05:54 PM
IMO, Chris kind of went over to the dark side for awhile there in the 90's but he is definitely back on his game now.
I think there are a few good core people out there who realize that the media has been whipped into submission by 9/11 and then by this administration.
It is the most cowed press corps in history as some have said.
Zell was unbelievable.
When he came out with that line "I have knocked on the door of his (Bush"s soul) my Democratic party friends whom I was watching/working with, said "That is because he tried knocking on Dumbya's head and it was hollow"!
We all thought that was pretty funny but unfortunately not part of proper etiquette for rapid response.

JohnnyMarzetti
09-02-2004, 07:04 PM
OH, and Zell Miller has been openly denounced by the Democratic Party and as recently as today by Terry McAuliffe as not being a Democrat.

HELL, he doesn't even join the Democratic Senate caucus anymore. Hasn't for a year or so now. He sits with the Republicans though. He kept his D just to feel special. You guys want another asshole? Have him.

Tommy Duncan
09-02-2004, 07:09 PM
It's fucking payback. Payback for all those years that the Democratic Party drifted to the extreme left yet counted on moderates and conservative Democrats to vote for them and keep them in power.

One delicious aspect of this campaign is that all of the hysterical rants and childish antics of the liberal-left in this country over the past couple of years are going to drive moderate and conservative Democrats into Bush's camp.

The more McAuliffe (the "Macker" as he calls himself) wants to condemn Miller and say he's not a Democrat then the more that helps Bush.

Tommy Duncan
09-02-2004, 07:12 PM
Come on you libbies, what did Miller do that was so wrong? Hell, he just gave a speech, that's all. It's not like he decided to give control of the United States Senate to the other party.

Buck it up and shut the **** up.

JohnnyMarzetti
09-02-2004, 07:18 PM
He isn't really anything. What's most profitable. Like Reagan he was a Democrat until it was more profitable to be a Republican.
No party, no honor, no scruples, no integrity.

now...STFU!!

Tommy Duncan
09-02-2004, 07:24 PM
Yeah, just like jumpin' Jim Jeffords, eh?

Now run over to democratslostandfound.com or whatever and find something to spam up in here.

attyjackiechiles
09-02-2004, 07:31 PM
His remarks were obnoxious, pompous, outrageous!

xrayzebra
09-02-2004, 08:16 PM
Confetti, would you please post just what a Democrat is.
What do you all stand for? Don't bash the other party just
tell us what you stand for. What you want for the country.
How are you going to accomplish it? Your party leader,
Kerry, certainly hasn't told anyone. He is just going to do
a better job. How, doing the same thing as Bush, but better.
Give me a break!:elephant