Was Bruce Bowen a dirty player?

[313]

For stepping under jump shooters?

IE Vince Carter

[widowmaker]

No. He was dirty to any guy he covered that expected to have an easy shot over him.

[Gagnrath]

If you look at the last 15 years of NBA basketball, there have been a number of rules changes and changes in the way games are called, that emasculate defense and make wing players more effective. The rules against handchecking, and bumping on the perimeter make any touch likely to be called a foul where as that wasn't true early in Bowen's career and a number of the older players were grandfathered for awhile. Bowen was also a very good athlete and could stay in front of many smaller players bothering them with his length. I do think that as he aged he would do things purposefully that made other players worry about what would happen when he was guarding them, which likely helped earn him the label but isn't really dirty if you are just putting the thought into their heads.

[spursfaninla]

Yes bruce was dirty, but the more basketball I see, the more I realize that many players basically cheat if they can get away with it. Roughing up the other player, grabbing them or hitting them when the refs can't see, stuff like that. Stockton was well known for it. During these playoffs, the saw Ibaka hold one of the houston players to prevent them from guarding an open thunder three pointer. GS was grabbing tony to stop him from getting free on picks. They do what they can. Bowen did his share too. But regardless, he was an all-time defender who never got his full due.

As to the specific issue of "stepping under" shooters, I do not think Bruce tried to seriously injure players, I really don't. If two or three guys got injured from him doing that, you might have an argument.

Hell, he never even close-lined someone, or hip-checked someone (although he did karate kick wally in the face).

[Kool Bob Love]

He is a 3 time NBA Champion.:toast

[100%duncan]

People and players called him dirty because he basically owned them all tbh. From bench warmers to role players to superstars, all of them. :lol

[Budkin]

I enjoyed seeing him own Ray Allen.

[Budkin]

http://www.bloguin.com/crossoverchronicles/images/stories/bruce_bowen_holding_championship_trophy.jpg

[Spurs and Mavs fan]

He is a 3 time NBA Champion.:toast


That doesn't answer the OP at all.

[jstep13]

No my friend

[Juggity]

He was dirty. That's part of the territory when you are a pesky, defensive wing player. You have to get under opponents' skins to be effective.

[313]

That doesn't answer the OP at all.
Exactly.


And to everyone mentioning his stout defense, that doesn't have anything to do with the question either.

There's no way you can believe he never purposely tried to put his foot under a shooter. At least a couple times.

[313]

He was dirty. That's part of the territory when you are a pesky, defensive wing player. You have to get under opponents' skins to be effective.
Aren't there other, safer, methods of getting into the opponents head though?

[KaiRMD1]

Only people who called Bruce dirty were those who played against him. I'm sure everybody wanted him on their team at one point.

[Blue Duck]

Remember that one time when he jumped up and kharate kicked thata player in the face? Was it Szerbiak??? Ayways, right after that he tried to pretend it was an accident. But bruce didn't depend on dirtiness to be effective. There were little things he did to take scorers out of their comfort zone that were brilliant and he was able to predict their
moves and tricks before they made them. Bruce never seriously intended to hurt anyone though, he just loved to force opponents to struggle through their own anger, thereby diminishing their focus. It was very Tsun Tzu.

[z0sa]

Define dirty.

[HarlemHeat37]

:lol of course he was dirty, and I say that despite Bruce being one of my top 3-5 favorite players of all-time..

Bowen's dirty tactics were strategical, though..he targeted soft players, mentally weak players and players with bad tempers, tbh..

Carmelo Anthony(mentally weak/bad temper)
Tracy McGrady(soft)
Vince Carter(soft)
Ray Allen(soft)
Jamal Crawford(mentally weak)
Amare Stoudemire(mentally weak)
Steve Francis(mentally weak)
Chris Paul(notorious bad temper)
Allen Iverson(notorious bad temper)
Michael Finley 2000-2005(bad temper)

There are exceptions to the rule, but he typically targeted players that would either be afraid of his tactics or would react with hostility towards his tactics, tbh..

[DDUBB1770]

Yes he was dirty a dirty nasty up in your face dirty winner!!!

[sasffl]

He was dirty but the mainstream enlarger his dirty play. He's a perfect role player

[chapnis]

Someone has gotta do the dirty work for a team to be successful, Bowen did the bulk of it for the Spurs.

[Whisky Dog]

The stepping under shooters trick was the dirtiest thing Bowen did, but when a guy's on fire that's the surest way to get in his head and slow him down. I don't think he'd do it to a guy who has ankle injury problems like Curry, but he sure did it to Ray Allen and VC lol

[polandprzem]

He was beyond dirty!
He was so great defender thatr no dirt was able to touch his greatness

[The Reckoning]

yes. and with reason in the pussified league.

[therealtruth]

It's actually a pretty good strategy as long as you don't injure the player.

[capek]

It's the one reason I can't completely hate Kobe tbh. He was the one player who only ever gave Bruce props. :toast

But ya, "strategically dirty" covers him pretty damn well. It was a thing of beauty imo, just 'cause he was on the Spurs no doubt. Imagine if, for example, he had happened to play on that '05 Supersonics team, which was already dirty as hell, and he stepped under Manu's ankle on a play, 'causing Manu's ankle to shatter into a dozen pieces or some other equally expected horrific career ending injury. We'd have two less rings, and be a much more bitter fan base. So just be glad Pop found him first before some other coach turned him into a WMAD (Weapon of Mass Ankle Desctruction) and unleashed him on us. :tu

[spurs_fan_in_exile]

Define dirty.

This. Because when I think dirty I think guys like Karl Malone, who clearly had no respect for their opponents bodies. Bruce may have skirted that line on occasion but I don't think he ever really crossed it. So many people harp on the stepping under shooters shit and how many twisted and mangled ankles did this guy have to show for it? As far as I can recall Steve Francis landed on Bowen's foot and missed a few games. By and large the things that he did that bent the rules were just the counterpoints to the equally illegal but far less vilified tricks of the trade that scorers use out there. For every uncalled hand check or jersey grab or body bump there are just as many if not more uncalled palming and push offs and moving screens.

[spurraider21]

Exactly.


And to everyone mentioning his stout defense, that doesn't have anything to do with the question either.

There's no way you can believe he never purposely tried to put his foot under a shooter. At least a couple times.

if you already know the answer to your own question, why'd you make a thread asking that very same question?

[chapnis]

if you already know the answer to your own question, why'd you make a thread asking that very same question?
He was probably interested in other peoples opinions on the subject.

[Austin_Toros]

Yes, Bowen was "dirty". Elite defenders resort to the ol' jersey grab and other "dirty" tactics. Ray Allen openly accused him of being a dirty player a number of years ago (I think after the incident when Bowen kicked Allen) and as already brought up there was the incident with Steve Francis.

[Austin_Toros]

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/wire?section=nba&id=3293748

[chapnis]

He can't have been that dirty if he managed to play 500 straight games without getting suspended by the league.

[racm]

He's not dirty in the sense that he'll cheap shot a player given the chance. However, he'll play many players very physical, and people known around the league as defensive stoppers get a lot more leeway in terms of calls.

[dunkman]

He was dirty, but he never injured anyone seriously. The Spurs were really big 4 during the 03, 05 and 07 'ships. Bowen was extremely important for the team.

[Johnny RIngo]

He was definitely dirty but every championship team has guys like him on their rosters. Always need that one player willing to get physical with the other team

[racm]

He was definitely dirty but every championship team has guys like him on their rosters. Always need that one player willing to get physical with the other team

Nearly every championship team has a physical role player.

[aal04]

it was different back then

[ThaBigFundamental21]

Yeah, I think Bowen had some dirty play in him. It's hard to deny. But to win a championship teams need some of that in them. I would like to see the Spurs get more physical. That is not a player on this team that anyone fears being guarded by. No one to make someone's day hell.

[aal04]

it was different back then

[rascal]

Bowen's game was ugly and a big reason why the Spurs were labeled as boring.

[Mel_13]

Bowen was an elite defender and a big reason why the Spurs won three titles.

Fans of other teams regarded him as dirty and his game as ugly.

[dbreiden83080]

I think he was a little dirty. He was one of those guys that needed any edge he could get because he was never very talented. I don't know that he wanted to badly hurt someone but I do think he liked the idea of someone thinking about rolling an ankle as they rose up for a jump shot. He may have seen that as a mental advantage.

[PBEEZY]

He was most defiantly a dirty player, he also maximized his talents.

[elemento]

Yes he was, but I loved him anyway. He is the definition of a perfect role player.

[Kool Bob Love]

That doesn't answer the OP at all.

Same could be said about your post as well tbh.

[LarryDavid]

Does a bear shit in the woods and wipe his ass with a fluffy white rabbit?

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1071/1478998638_666dbbfcaa_o.gif