Heaven?

[Avante]

Ouch, that was painful to read. You really don't see the flaw in that reasoning, do you?

Do yourself a favor:

Listen to the first, 10 minutes or so of this MP3:

http://www.atheist-experience.com/archive/AtheistExp-2013-05-19.mp3

Stop whenever they take the first caller or so, but they pretty much address how and why you are wrong here almost exactly.

If you can't understand why you are wrong, let me know, and I will step you through it.

That was painful to listen to so after 20 second, see ya~~~~~~~~~~~

Go ahead step me through it, my ears would appreciate that.

Since nobody can actually prove anything when it comes to this topic nobody is wrong, it's just what is your opinion. So unless you have proof of something......

[RandomGuy]

That was painful to listen to so after 20 second, see ya~~~~~~~~~~~

Go ahead step me through it, my ears would appreciate that.

Since nobody can actually prove anything when it comes to this topic nobody is wrong, it's just what is your opinion. So unless you have proof of something......

20 seconds? that's it?

Ok, then.

Lets see if we can get at the truth here. One, step at a time. Each step builds, logically, on the last, and the final conclusion bears directly on why your post was flawed.

I have a standard six-sided die. Is it possible, to roll it and get a result of five? If so, how do you know?

[Avante]

20 seconds? that's it?

Ok, then.

Lets see if we can get at the truth here. One, step at a time. Each step builds, logically, on the last, and the final conclusion bears directly on why your post was flawed.

I have a standard six-sided die. Is it possible, to roll it and get a result of five? If so, how do you know?

Whoa, whoa and whoa~~~~

Get to the point, ok?

[Woo Bum-kon]

Avante is going to simultaneously whine about RandomGuy not getting to the point and refuse to let him get to the point.

[Avante]

Avante is going to simultaneously whine about RandomGuy not getting to the point and refuse to let him get to the point.

It's 2013, and people have been worshipping some God since the beginning of time. I seriously doubt someone in hiding on an internet messageboard is going to be changing anything. Way too many far more important people trust in God than don't. There is no logical reason at all not to trust in something. Immaturity, mental retardation, not too bright, would be the only logical reasons.

This..."oh yeah, well prove it"...says it all about the person playing that. It screams..."I don't get it".

Like I told you on the other thread, it's real obvious you don't get it, so why waste my time with you?

See ya~~~~~~~~~~

[Woo Bum-kon]

You are literally incapable of making an argument that isn't fallacious. You are just too dumb to see the error of your ways.

You have been told countless times about the burden of proof, but you don't care. You just want to make terrible arguments based on extremely flawed reasoning.

[Avante]

Let me ask you out there reading this a question.

What do you do with those who haven't figure religion/faith in some God out yet? This guy being a great example of someone so lost in this it's comical. Do you just smile and ...."that's nice"...or just ignore them? I can only guess it's in their upbringing, so to try and talk to them is fruitless. Obviously they can't figure out this is a spiritual thing and there is no proof nor is it needed. It's like telling somebody..."I'm jealous"..and have them say..."prove it".

What would you do?

[Woo Bum-kon]

I was raised Catholic , stupid ass. What's your next excuse for why it's okay to be irrational?

[Avante]

As we can see, there's this overwelming need to be agreed with to the point of name calling if you don't agree. Right there pretty much says it all when it comes to the stability of these non believers. So what do you gain by confronting them, that's right....nothing.

Nobody has ever changed anyones mind on the internet, that' s simply not going to happen.

[Woo Bum-kon]

You made an assumption about me, and you got called out for it. I will stop calling you a stupid ass when you stop acting a stupid ass.

[Avante]

I guess in this situation I have to go with history. Historically speaking this guy has a long history of name calling, argumentative, disrespectful and seems to prefer it that way. His posting history proves that. I'm sure he would react the same over why somebody doesn't like buttermilk, I mean can you really prove you don't like it?

I wouldn't mind talking with those who understand the topic and can carry on an interesting debate/conversation.

[Relevancy]

I don't know if heaven really exists, but I remember one time writing a letter to my mom during Christmas, pretty respectable lady, who had died of cancer a year prior I believe, she was a teacher in Mexico, she taught many kids how to read and write, so I'm assuming she went up there, so I placed the letter underneath the Christmas tree and awaited for an answer, the next day I went to see if she had responded, surprisingly there was a paragraph long response, since I was a kid I thought she really had written it herself, but I have a feeling that uncle of mine whose a very religious catholic wrote it himself to make me believe she had written it, he did make it very obvious by crying over his own writing, after that I felt very indifferent about religion. We will never know if it does exist.

[Avante]

I don't know if heaven really exists, but I remember one time writing a letter to my mom during Christmas, pretty respectable lady, who had died of cancer a year prior I believe, she was a teacher in Mexico, she taught many kids how to read and write, so I'm assuming she went up there, so I placed the letter underneath the Christmas tree and awaited for an answer, the next day I went to see if she had responded, surprisingly there was a paragraph long response, since I was a kid I thought she really had written it herself, but I have a feeling that uncle of mine whose a very religious catholic wrote it himself to make me believe she had written it, he did make it very obvious by crying over his own writing, after that I felt very indifferent about religion. We will never know if it does exist.

That was a good read.

There is no doubt religion exists, the big mystery is are the beliefs real or imagined. Not that anyone really cares to be honest. It's more a warm blanket on a cold night.

[Relevancy]

That was a good read.

There is no doubt religion exists, the big mystery is are the beliefs real or imagined. Not that anyone really cares to be honest. It's more a warm blanket on a cold night.Pretty much, we just want to be assured we're going somewhere after this after life, that in my opinion is when religion was created, sadly I've never seen anything in my life that makes me believe there's some divine figures out there.

Have you ever experienced something that you cannot explain?

[ohmwrecker]

That was a good read.

There is no doubt religion exists, the big mystery is are the beliefs real or imagined. Not that anyone really cares to be honest. It's more a warm blanket on a cold night.

It's more of a shackle than a blanket tbh.

[clambake]

phenoms radar must be under repair.

[Relevancy]

It's more of a shackle than a blanket tbh.So you're comparing religion to a being imprisoned? let them believe what they want, they're letting you believe what you want, well at least the rational ones. My uncle who has been involved heavily in church says their group sometimes go on quests to redeem lost souls, they go up a mountain and deal with people who use drugs, are women beaters, and are violent in general, you know what he says? he says that they see paranormal stuff, now do I believe him? I wouldn't rule it out as a possibility, I mean I have to be there to actually believe it, so I guess were finding out when we kick the leg aren't we?

[Woo Bum-kon]

I guess in this situation I have to go with history. Historically speaking this guy has a long history of name calling, argumentative, disrespectful and seems to prefer it that way. His posting history proves that. I'm sure he would react the same over why somebody doesn't like buttermilk, I mean can you really prove you don't like it?

I wouldn't mind talking with those who understand the topic and can carry on an interesting debate/conversation.

You are a gigantic hypocrite. You have equated my disagreement with your position with ignorance solely because I disagree with you. You're full of shit.

[clambake]

So you're comparing religion to a being imprisoned? let them believe what they want, they're letting you believe what you want, well at least the rational ones. My uncle who has been involved heavily in church says their group sometimes go on quests to redeem lost souls, they go up a mountain and deal with people who use drugs, are women beaters, and are violent in general, you know what he says? he says that they see paranormal stuff, now do I believe him? I wouldn't rule it out as a possibility, I mean I have to be there to actually believe it, so I guess were finding out when we kick the leg aren't we?

yet......he won't clean his own house.

[ohmwrecker]

yet......he won't clean his own house.

:lol

[Relevancy]

:lolOf course you quote him, I'm assuming your both non-believers when it comes to religion, that's good. I'm guessing your both content with dying and never waking up again? That's good again, just don't try and bash people with actual beliefs, have an open mind.

[clambake]

Of course you quote him, I'm assuming your both non-believers when it comes to religion, that's good. I'm guessing your both content with dying and never waking up again? That's good again, just don't try and bash people with actual beliefs, have an open mind.

i'm laughing at your uncle.

[Relevancy]

i'm laughing at your uncle.and I laugh at you:lol a non-believer who questions church or any religion when he doesn't even know his purpose in life, tell me, is it to be successful and that's it? Really?

[clambake]

and I laugh at you:lol a non-believer who questions church or any religion when he doesn't even know his purpose in life, tell me, is it to be successful and that's it? Really?

do you know what it means when i said "yet....he won't clean his own house?"

[ohmwrecker]

and I laugh at you:lol a non-believer who questions church or any religion when he doesn't even know his purpose in life, tell me, is it to be successful and that's it? Really?

Yes. Depending on how you define success.

[Relevancy]

do you know what it means when i said "yet....he won't clean his own house?"No, and I'm not afraid to say I don't, after all I can take school lessons once in awhile. Next time, be more specific, I thought you compared "house to "church" or that you meant he needed to clean what its thought to be the corruption of church.

[clambake]

very good. it is his church.

i'd like to hear what you mean by "thought to be corruption of church"

[clambake]

just say it. they know.

[Relevancy]

We all know church is money driven, that's not new, but the practices that religion makes are not imaginary, I do hate how they ask for money whenever I go, they don't say "If you want to make a donation please do so, but its not mandatory, instead they tell you, at least catholic priests, "Don't forget to make a donation, we'll be passing the casket around very soon. Religion was never about money, but nowadays is all about money.

[Woo Bum-kon]

Of course you quote him, I'm assuming your both non-believers when it comes to religion, that's good. I'm guessing your both content with dying and never waking up again? That's good again, just don't try and bash people with actual beliefs, have an open mind.


Being satisfied with something has no bearing on whether it is true or not.

[clambake]

We all know church is money driven, that's not new, but the practices that religion makes are not imaginary, I do hate how they ask for money whenever I go, they don't say "If you want to make a donation please do so, but its not mandatory, instead they tell you, at least catholic priests, "Don't forget to make a donation, we'll be passing the casket around very soon. Religion was never about money, but nowadays is all about money.
looks like your uncle is conveniently not telling you something.

[Relevancy]

Yes. Depending on how you define success.Success as a person I see it, is not about telling your rich friends how well your company is, its being content with what you have, never asking why you don't have more, but that's just me. You might see that as a weakness, or anyone whose successful in will say that, but I don't.

[ohmwrecker]

Success as a person I see it, is not about telling your rich friends how well your company is, its being content with what you have, never asking why you don't have more, but that's just me. You might see that as a weakness, or anyone whose successful in will say that, but I don't.

That's not success as I see it either. You are assuming that everyone has the same, limited view of success that you do.

[Relevancy]

looks like your uncle is conveniently not telling you something.Well wouldn't you say that applies to everyone? Church is a building, just a plain ol' brick building or whatever your church is made out of, but beliefs are not, I'm talking about real beliefs, not the beliefs in money..

[clambake]

Well wouldn't you say that applies to everyone? Church is a building, just a plain ol' brick building or whatever your church is made out of, but beliefs are not, I'm talking about real beliefs, not the beliefs in money..

what is it that your uncle isn't telling you? take a guess.

[Relevancy]

That's not success as I see it either. You are assuming that everyone has the same, limited view of success that you do.Lets just say I don't see money as the high priority, while I don't live a high successful life I don't live a bad one either, I'm talking about people with actual morals, not the ones who take advantage of others, that to me is a pretty successful life, you know the ones who still have morals...

[clambake]

Lets just say I don't see money as the high priority, while I don't live a high successful life I don't live a bad one either, I'm talking about people with actual morals, not the ones who take advantage of others, that to me is a pretty successful life.

your getting warm. please expand about actual morals.

[Relevancy]

what is it that your uncle isn't telling you? take a guess.That he's heavily involved in church therefore making him a corrupted person himself? I'm probably off base, but tell me please.

[clambake]

That he's heavily involved in church therefore making him a corrupted person himself? I'm probably off base, but tell me please.

ask your uncle about morals and the catholic church.

take him to task.

[Trill Clinton]

Pretty much, we just want to be assured we're going somewhere after this after life, that in my opinion is when religion was created, sadly I've never seen anything in my life that makes me believe there's some divine figures out there.

Have you ever experienced something that you cannot explain?

damn woo woo, you've been emotionally invested in the topic of religion for over a week, two weeks. we get it, u think its bullshit. why do you insist on talking about something you don't believe in. how does someones thoughts and prayers affect you personally? you come off as very bitter and scornful. did a priest take advantage of you? were you a believer at one time and god didn't answer your prayers on time?

i hope whatever happened to you, you seek help for it. this anger you have towards a god you don't believe in is unhealthy.

[Relevancy]

your getting warm. please expand about actual morals.Morals as in not scamming people with money, which people who are heavily involved in church are known to forget about such stuff, is that it?

[Woo Bum-kon]

damn woo woo, you've been emotionally invested in the topic of religion for over a week, two weeks. we get it, u think its bullshit. why do you insist on talking about something you don't believe in. how does someones thoughts and prayers affect you personally? you come off as very bitter and scornful. did a priest take advantage of you? were you a believer at one time and god didn't answer your prayers on time?

i hope whatever happened to you, you seek help for it. this anger you have towards a god you don't believe in is unhealthy.

:lol Look at that house negro defend the white man's religion.

[clambake]

nice troll job.

[Relevancy]

damn woo woo, you've been emotionally invested in the topic of religion for over a week, two weeks. we get it, u think its bullshit. why do you insist on talking about something you don't believe in. how does someones thoughts and prayers affect you personally? you come off as very bitter and scornful. did a priest take advantage of you? were you a believer at one time and god didn't answer your prayers on time?

i hope whatever happened to you, you seek help for it. this anger you have towards a god you don't believe in is unhealthy.I don't have anger Trill, more like uncertainty. I believe there's something out there, but until we kick the leg I think it's pretty safe to say we should put all of this "is religion real" "are non-believers right?" to rest, I'm a semi catholic Trill, it's not like I'm in no mans land.

[Trill Clinton]

meant to quote woo boo, sorry bout that.

[Relevancy]

nice troll job.Who? seeing that me and you were the only ones engaging back and forth, just because I couldn't guess what you meant does not make me a troll, can you please be a little more specific?

[Relevancy]

meant to quote woo boo, sorry bout that.No problem bro, I was like what, I've only been responding to this topic for a day.:lol

[clambake]

Who? seeing that me and you were the only ones engaging back and forth, just because I couldn't guess what you meant does not make me a troll, can you please be a little more specific?

you were talking about morals and the catholic church. I'm not going to say it.

i want to hear a catholic say it.

[Trill Clinton]

:lol Look at that house negro defend the white man's religion.

and look at the emo mulatto wasting keystrokes on a god he doesn't believe in. your anger is transparent, doggie. you're bitter for a reason. if you were a victim of a pedo priest, you need to get help. getting mad at strangers who pray in the privacy of their homes is not a good look.

[ohmwrecker]

Lets just say I don't see money as the high priority, while I don't live a high successful life I don't live a bad one either, I'm talking about people with actual morals, not the ones who take advantage of others, that to me is a pretty successful life, you know the ones who still have morals...

Are you really going to stand by the assertion that one cannot live a "moral" life without religion?

[Woo Bum-kon]

and look at the emo mulatto wasting keystrokes on a god he doesn't believe in. your anger is transparent, doggie. you're bitter for a reason. if you were a victim of a pedo priest, you need to get help. getting mad at strangers who pray in the privacy of their homes is not a good look.

:lol who said that I was mad at strangers who pray in the privacy of their homes? And I wasn't molested by a priest. You can stop going that route, because that only makes your God look shitty by not doing anything to stop a molestation had it actually happened.

You keep making shit up, but what I said about you is true. You are defending a religion that white people indoctrinated your ancestors with. All your talk about how white people are serial/spree killers and pedophiles was for nothing, because you are a house negro at heart.

[Relevancy]

Are you really going to stand by the assertion that one cannot live a "moral" life without religion?No, I just answered the question you asked me, which what was my very own definition of a successful life, which is having morals until you die.

[clambake]

No, I just answered the question you asked me, which what was my very own definition of a successful life, which is having morals until you die.

does the catholic church have morals?

[Relevancy]

you were talking about morals and the catholic church. I'm not going to say it.

i want to hear a catholic say it.What's your view of all of this anyways? What do you make of both parties, all I can do is to say both are not wrong, but not right at the same time.

[clambake]

What's your view of all of this anyways? What do you make of both parties, all I can do is to say both are not wrong, but not right at the same time.

wut?

[ohmwrecker]

Herding cats.

[Relevancy]

does the catholic church have morals?Going by their history I think not, or the media outlets, countless of rapes and whatnot, but I cannot judge them, only one can really put his authority over them, I can't.

[Relevancy]

wut?Religion, non-believers, what do you stand by?

[clambake]

Going by their history I think not, or the media outlets, countless of rapes and whatnot, but I cannot judge them, only one can really put his authority over them, I can't.

so.....catholics are just mindless followers. thanks for clarification.

[ohmwrecker]

Going by their history I think not, or the media outlets, countless of rapes and whatnot, but I cannot judge them, only one can really put his authority over them, I can't.

Wapner?

[clambake]

Going by their history I think not, or the media outlets, countless of rapes and whatnot, but I cannot judge them, only one can really put his authority over them, I can't.

you can't judge the protection of criminal acts? you aren't capable?

really?

[Relevancy]

so.....catholics are just mindless followers. thanks for clarification.I love how you speak as if you have some high authority and can judge people

[Relevancy]

you can't judge the protection of criminal acts? you aren't capable?

really?No, who can? No human being can.

[clambake]

I love how you speak as if you have some high authority and can judge people

you can't be this stupid.

nice troll job.

[clambake]

No, who can? No human being can.

you ever heard of judges?

[ohmwrecker]

I love how you speak as if you have some high authority and can judge people

And you don't? Is that what religion affords you? Authority?

[Relevancy]

you can't be this stupid.

nice troll job.and you can't be as stupid as saying all Catholics are mindless followers, can you?

Nice troll job.

[clambake]

and you can't be as stupid as saying all Catholics are mindless followers, can you?

Nice troll job.

as a semi catholic.....what have you done about the rapist and those that protected them?

[Relevancy]

And you don't? Is that what religion affords you? Authority?I can basically say the same thing about people who don't believe in anything, do you have authority over people just because you decide to not believe? does that give you the authority to say religion is false and join clambake's party, which is to claim religion followers are mindless sheeps?

[ohmwrecker]

I can basically say the same thing about people who don't believe in anything, do you have authority over people just because you decide to not believe? does that give you the authority to say religion is false and join clambake's party, which is to claim religion followers are mindless sheeps?

Why do you assume those who don't believe in God, or are atleast willing to accept that it is an unknown and still have no problem living good lives as decent people don't believe in anything?

[Relevancy]

as a semi catholic.....what have you done about the rapist and those that protected them?I was speaking through my uncle, who I know is a heavily involved in church, I was never speaking through me, get it right.

[clambake]

what kind of religion harbours and protects rapists?

[clambake]

I was speaking through my uncle, who I know is a heavily involved in church, I was never speaking through me, get it right.

you said you are a semi-catholic. i got it right.

[Relevancy]

Why do you assume those who don't believe in God, or are atleast willing to accept that it is an unknown and still have no problem living good lives as decent people don't believe in anything?When did I ever say people who don't believe in god are not good people? When I was talking about "morals" i was just meaning it as a life thing, I never mentioned god in that, you asked me about living a successful life, I answered it, but god was not mentioned once.

[clambake]

I don't have anger Trill, more like uncertainty. I believe there's something out there, but until we kick the leg I think it's pretty safe to say we should put all of this "is religion real" "are non-believers right?" to rest, I'm a semi catholic Trill, it's not like I'm in no mans land.

[Relevancy]

you said you are a semi-catholic. i got it right.Yeah semi-catholic as in I'm not involved in anything the church does, I pray privately, on my own.

and occasionally have my confessions, I think you need to speak with someone that has actual knowledge from inside, that person I think would be gladly to answer all your questions.

[clambake]

Yeah semi-catholic as in I'm not involved in anything the church does, I pray privately, on my own.

have you prayed for the rapist and the church that protected them?

[ohmwrecker]

When did I ever say people who don't believe in god are not good people? When I was talking about "morals" i was just meaning it as a life thing, I never mentioned god in that, you asked me about living a successful life, I answered it, but god was not mentioned once.

What are you talking about here?


I can basically say the same thing about people who don't believe in anything, do you have authority over people just because you decide to not believe? does that give you the authority to say religion is false and join clambake's party, which is to claim religion followers are mindless sheeps?

[Trill Clinton]

:lol who said that I was mad at strangers who pray in the privacy of their homes? And I wasn't molested by a priest. You can stop going that route, because that only makes your God look shitty by not doing anything to stop a molestation had it actually happened.

You keep making shit up, but what I said about you is true. You are defending a religion that white people indoctrinated your ancestors with. All your talk about how white people are serial/spree killers and pedophiles was for nothing, because you are a house negro at heart.

then what are you so angry about? if i don't care about something i dont invest in it. you're bitter, doggie.

[clambake]

Yeah semi-catholic as in I'm not involved in anything the church does, I pray privately, on my own.

and occasionally have my confessions, I think you need to speak with someone that has actual knowledge from inside, that person I think would be gladly to answer all your questions.
is your uncle on the inside?

get him in here.

[Relevancy]

have you prayed for the rapist and the church that protected them?Have you ever taken into consideration the fact that I might not be as heavily involved as you thought? that I might not be a "mindless sheep" like how you say it, I pray to what I believe, something wrong with that?

[Relevancy]

What are you talking about here?What I meant is that both, the non-believers and the religious, should not fight over which territory their own, what they both say is irrelevant, because neither now the actual truth, that does not make either a sheep.

[Woo Bum-kon]

then what are you so angry about? if i don't care about something i dont invest in it. you're bitter, doggie.

Who said I was angry? Who said I didn't care? From what are you drawing these conclusions?

[clambake]

Have you ever taken into consideration the fact that I might not be as heavily involved as you thought? that I might not be a "mindless sheep" like how you say it, I pray to what I believe, something wrong with that?

so the semi part just ignores it?

[ohmwrecker]

What I meant is that both, the non-believers and the religious, should not fight over which territory their own, what they both say is irrelevant, because neither now the actual truth, that does not make either a sheep.

Accepting an unknown and living your life by an interpretive dogmatic guideline with meaningless consequences is having faith in religion.
Accepting an unknown and living a moral life by choice without fear of retribution or punishment by something that may not exist is freedom.

There is a huge difference.

[Trill Clinton]

Who said I was angry? Who said I didn't care? From what are you drawing these conclusions?

from your numerous posts from various screen names about a god you dont believe in. i haven't seen you comment on islam, hindus or buddists. seems like the christian god is whom you place your anger and hatred on. you're bitter.

[clambake]

from your numerous posts from various screen names about a god you dont believe in. i haven't seen you comment on islam, hindus or buddists. seems like the christian god is whom you place your anger and hatred on. you're bitter.

islam, hindus and buddists aren't a part of our political process.

[Relevancy]

Accepting an unknown and living your life by an interpretive dogmatic guideline with meaningless consequences is having faith in religion.
Accepting an unknown and living a moral life by choice without fear of retribution or punishment by something that may not exist is freedom.

There is a huge difference.No, there's nothing wrong with following guidelines in life, what's really important is to stay true to oneself, to make choices, to decide where you belong, if you wanna evoke your true self by believing in something what gives the right the other halve to say it's incorrect?

[Woo Bum-kon]

Thank you, clambake. Uncle Tom here is pretending that people believe in God in a vacuum and affect other people's lives in no way.

[Trill Clinton]

islam, hindus and buddists aren't a part of our political process.

this is my first time seeing politics mentioned. the threads where woo has made his outcries had nothing to do with that.

[Woo Bum-kon]

Politics is being mentioned now because you are pretending that people's religious beliefs don't have any effects on non-believers, Uncle Tom.

[clambake]

this is my first time seeing politics mentioned. the threads where woo has made his outcries had nothing to do with that.

hey, if you can be a catholic and ignore the atrocities, its all good.

[Relevancy]

so the semi part just ignores it?I think I was the wrong person to have a conversation with, you need to talk to an actual religious nut job, someone who is willing to go all out and try to disapprove your point, I have no desire of doing such thing, you think everyone who follows Catholicism is a sheep? Good for you

[clambake]

I think I was the wrong person to have a conversation with, you need to talk to an actual religious nut job, someone who is willing to go all out and try to disapprove your point

sounds like a job for your uncle.

[Avante]

As we can see nothing ever gets solved when the talk of relgion/God comes up. Nobody can prove anything, those thinking logic can't grasp the concept that it simply doesn't work with this. That right there boogles their mind. Those who do believe actually pity the non believers while the non believers think without proof nothing can possibly exist. Despite the fact the logic/proof of even a 100 years ago wouldn't apply today.

We will never know the truth until we are dead.

[Blake]

As we can see nothing ever gets solved when the talk of relgion/God comes up. Nobody can prove anything, those thinking logic can't grasp the concept that it simply doesn't work with this. That right there boogles their mind. Those who do believe actually pity the non believers while the non believers think without proof nothing can possibly exist. Despite the fact the logic/proof of even a 100 years ago wouldn't apply today.

We will never know the truth until we are dead.

Yeah. That's good enough reason to get rid of "In God we trust" from our money and license plates.

[Trill Clinton]

Politics is being mentioned now because you are pretending that people's religious beliefs don't have any effects on non-believers, Uncle Tom.

bulllllshitt. all your posts the past 2 weeks reek of butthurt, anger, frustration and confusion. you're bitter and scorned. you didn't mention shit about politics until today lol. lying ass.

keep it real, your anger has nothing to do with politics. you just don't believe in god(i can't tell) and think religion is for dummies, keep it real and stop pussy footin'. you are entitled to that just like i'm entitled to think you're bitter for dwelling on a god you don't believe in.

now call me uncle tom again:toast

[Avante]

Yeah. That's good enough reason to get rid of "In God we trust" from our money and license plates.

There is a reason no matter how primitive the people, they worshipped something. Back in the days of Mohammad that region of the world had over 300 Gods. They discovered a lost tribe in the Phillipine Islands not so long ago, they had a God. We want a God so we have a God. People prefer it that way and it's very obvious.

Would America ever put an atheist in the White House, of course not.

[Woo Bum-kon]

bulllllshitt. all your posts the past 2 weeks reek of butthurt, anger, frustration and confusion. you're bitter and scorned. you didn't mention shit about politics until today lol. lying ass.

What am I confused about? What am I lying about? Clambake and I mentioned politics because of something you brought up. What is hard to understand about that?


keep it real, your anger has nothing to do with politics. you just don't believe in god(i can't tell) and think religion is for dummies, keep it real and stop pussy footin'.

How are those two things mutually exclusive?


you are entitled to that just like i'm entitled to think you're bitter for dwelling on a god you don't believe in.
And you're entitled to being a house negro.


now call me uncle tom again:toast

Gladly, house negro. It must make you rage inside knowing that I am 100% correct on why you believe.

[Woo Bum-kon]

There is a reason no matter how primitive the people, they worshipped something. Back in the days of Mohammad that region of the world had over 300 Gods. They discovered a lost tribe in the Phillipine Islands not so long ago, they had a God. We want a God so we have a God. People prefer it that way and it's very obvious.

Humans are naturally inclined toward believing in god(s). That has no bearing on anything.

And just because one cannot disprove something doesn't in itself give that something credence. You can't disprove in the Flying Spaghetti Monster, but you don't believe in it. And don't give me that crap about how many theists there are, because that is irrelevant. Just because a lot of people believe in something doesn't make that thing true, no matter how many times you claim the contrary.


Would America ever put an atheist in the White House, of course not.

You love bringing up irrelevant shit.

[Clipper Nation]

There is a reason no matter how primitive the people, they worshipped something.
Because they were primitive, gullible, and easily brainwashed....


Would America ever put an atheist in the White House, of course not.
It took forever for America to elect a non-white President, does that make racism justified in your illogical world?

[Blake]

There is a reason no matter how primitive the people, they worshipped something. Back in the days of Mohammad that region of the world had over 300 Gods. They discovered a lost tribe in the Phillipine Islands not so long ago, they had a God. We want a God so we have a God. People prefer it that way and it's very obvious.

Would America ever put an atheist in the White House, of course not.

You want a God then great, have a God.

Just keep your God off my money and to yourself. Thanks.

[Trill Clinton]

What am I confused about? What am I lying about? Clambake and I mentioned politics because of something you brought up. What is hard to understand about that?



How are those two things mutually exclusive?


And you're entitled to being a house negro.



Gladly, house negro. It must make you rage inside knowing that I am 100% correct on why you believe.


this half-a-nigga:rolleyes...


nope no rage at all. you're the same emo mulatto who would say "wow, Trill, you're racist!" and not say a peep when your white buddies made fun of your race. you should have seen the look on my face when i found out you were half blackhttp://i41.tinypic.com/dgpftg.png

no, clambake mentioned politics, you piggybacked him because i was gettin in that ass, no homo. if religion and politics were seperate, like they should be, you would still be the bitter ex believer you are...and i did not bring up politics. i brought up other religions, the homie, clambake brought up politics. you can't even get ya lies straight.

[Avante]

You want a God then great, have a God.

Just keep your God off my money and to yourself. Thanks.

You that uptight about this? I bet somebody in your family trusts in a God, right? I have no doubts you grew up around others who did believe. You play ball, what did you do when it was time to kneel in prayer?

[clambake]

You that uptight about this? I bet somebody in your family trusts in a God, right? I have no doubts you grew up around others who did believe.

of course. thats how indoctrination works.

[Avante]

of course. thats how indoctrination works.

Which tells us what?

[RandomGuy]

Whoa, whoa and whoa~~~~

Get to the point, ok?

You wanted to be stepped through it, because a few minutes of audio was more than you wanted to sit still for.

The answer is yes, five is possible to roll on one die.

The next step is to acknowledge that seven is impossible to roll with one die, no matter how many times you roll it.

In this specific case there are only a limited number of possibilities.



Right there is where the big problem is. We can't fathom something so far out there we can't explain it. Well everything has that exception to the rule and here it is...God. Yes our laws of whatever can't explain this one. That's the mystery, why can't they work when they work on everything else? Obviously this goes far beyond human understanding.

If we go back in history we can stop at anytime and see things we weren't suppose to have/be able to do today based on the logic of the times, you disagree?

Logic does not change. Understanding and knowledge does.

If I held out a bag with SOMETHING in it, and added one die to it, I could say that it would be possible to roll an 18 (with the one die plus however many else were there). I would not know, however enough to conclusively state one way or another what was true. 18 would be as possible as 24, as far as I know.

Empty the bag, and look. Now you can state for certainty what the range of possibilities are. Only two dice. Your earlier statement that 18 "was possible" was wrong.

The more we have learned about the universe, the more we can start ruling out some "master plan". The universe is not a clock.

Logic does not change. Knowledge does.

You still have not given me any reason, other than your wanting it to be true, to show that it is.

How do you know every rule has an exception?

[RandomGuy]

Which tells us what?

That logically flawed arguments like "there must be a creator" die hard, because they are assumed to be true, without evidence.

Evidence and critical thining shall set you free.

[clambake]

Which tells us what?

that you've been programmed by humans.

[Avante]

That logically flawed arguments like "there must be a creator" die hard, because they are assumed to be true, without evidence.

Evidence and critical thining shall set you free.



Free to do what?

[Avante]

that you've been programmed by humans.

No not really, I just went with what made me feel better about life.

[clambake]

you wouldn't know a thing about it if you weren't indoctrinated by humans.

[Avante]

you wouldn't know a thing about it if you weren't indoctrinated by humans.

Well nobody pushed it on me and like I've said many times, don't buy into the Bible. I also don't buy into all this perfection just happened by chance. Have no idea how it all came about and neither does anyone else.

[Blake]

You that uptight about this? I bet somebody in your family trusts in a God, right? I have no doubts you grew up around others who did believe. You play ball, what did you do when it was time to kneel in prayer?

Well, I went to a Christian school growing up, so I followed the coach's lead and prayed. I also believed in God at the time.

Now that I'm older and wise about the evils of the Bible, yes I'm bitter when I hear that people are being denied a right to happiness because of this Bible. It's not right.

Government policies should never be based on an old book of myths like the Bible.

[Blake]

Well nobody pushed it on me and like I've said many times, don't buy into the Bible. I also don't buy into all this perfection just happened by chance. Have no idea how it all came about and neither does anyone else.

Yes, again, reason enough to get rid of in God we trust.

[Avante]

Well, I went to a Christian school growing up, so I followed the coach's lead and prayed. I also believed in God at the time.

Now that I'm older and wise about the evils of the Bible, yes I'm bitter when I hear that people are being denied a right to happiness because of this Bible. It's not right.

Government policies should never be based on an old book of myths like the Bible.

I agree 100% about an old book of myths. That God is not unlike Zues, Odin and Jupiter. I think something else is responsible for all this, obviously...???

Not a fan of religious fanatics at all. Also don't want them coming to my door.

[Avante]

Yes, again, reason enough to get rid of in God we trust.

That's too trivial to even bother with.

[AaronY]

http://florida.arrests.org/Arrests/Heaven_Davey_11611251/ imo tbqh..

[Blake]

That's too trivial to even bother with.

A small step in the right direction is still a step

[Woo Bum-kon]

whine

No, I'm not half black. Period, house negro.


no, clambake mentioned politics, you piggybacked him because i was gettin in that ass, no homo.

I agreed with him because what he said was true. You are being very stupid right now.


if religion and politics were seperate, like they should be, you would still be the bitter ex believer you are...

Religion and politics aren't separate, though, so you pretending that they are won't change the fact. Your point about me caring about something that shouldn't bother me was simply untrue.


and i did not bring up politics. i brought up other religions, the homie, clambake brought up politics. you can't even get ya lies straight.

Show me where I claimed that you personally brought up politics, house negro. Your owners should have taught you how to read.

You are making a very simple thing complicated.


You pretended like I was being unreasonable by caring about people believing in a god that I don't believe in.
Clambake brought up a point about how religion actually affects America, and I agreed with him.

That's it, dummy. I don't know what is so hard to understand about that.

Now, continue to defend the white man's religion like the house negro you are.

[Trill Clinton]

http://i40.tinypic.com/iymn3a.gif

damn, this half a nigga just can't stop commenting on shit he doesn't care about. you really have a problem, doggie.

[Woo Bum-kon]

This house negro is still making personal attacks because he can't actually defend the white man's religion.

Wee-Bey.gif

[Avante]

A small step in the right direction is still a step

So how do you celebrate Christmas, totally play it off as if it were about Santa and gift giving? Does it piss you off when you get a card talking about Jesus? What about gospel music? What about all those church goers? How do you deal with Easter, just a day to hunt eggs, eat marshmellow bunnies? What about....one nation under God? Ever felt like an outcast because everyone else was saying grace?

What do you gain by playing this..bah humbug...role? Grannie is dying the whole family is there, grandpa asks everyone to bow their head in prayer, what do you do? Little cousin asks you ..."is Brownie in doggie Heaven?"...what do you tell her..."wise up kid there ain't no Heaven"...?

[Woo Bum-kon]

So how do you celebrate Christmas, totally play it off as if it were about Santa and gift giving? Does it piss you off when you get a card talking about Jesus? What about gospel music? What about all those church goers? How do you deal with Easter, just a day to hunt eggs, eat marshmellow bunnies? What about....one nation under God? Ever felt like an outcast because everyone else was saying grace?

What do you gain by playing this..bah humbug...role? Grannie is dying the whole family is there, grandpa asks everyone to bow their head in prayer, what do you do? Little cousin asks you ..."is Brownie in doggie Heaven?"...what do you tell her..."wise up kid there ain't no Heaven"...?

If grandma dies, is it proof that prayer doesn't work?

[Avante]

If grandma dies, is it proof that prayer doesn't work?

No it's proves we all have our time to go.

Tell me Woo, why do you care what anyone thinks about this, it isn't real obvious it took years and years to get to where we all are on this? Do you really think some stranger hiding behind a computer screen is going to make some huge impact on those opinions?

Woo, I gotta tell you I know a lot of people who would read you and giggle. It would be a roll of the eyes and ..."poor guy".....I'm dead serious. You are making no impact at all, none, absolutely zero. Why you even bother is a mystery to me.

Do you really think...

me...I'm done believing in some higher power.
Judy...why?
me...Woo did it.
Judy...Woo who?
me...Woo-Bum-kon
Judy...what the hell is a Woo-Bum-kon?
me..this cat on the internet, he really knows his stuff.
Judy..somebody calling themselves, Woo-Bum-kon, you're kidding right?
me...hmmm? Yeah you're right, what would a Woo-Bum-kon know?
Judy..what is he, some Mongolian?
me...hahaha~~!

[Woo Bum-kon]

No it's proves we all have our time to go.

So, it is irrelevant whether prayer actually works or not. Your grandmother recovering and living for over a decade longer, doesn't actually matter to you as far as prayer goes, because you would have still believed that God answers prayers even when he doesn't.

Basically, prayer is completely indistinguishable from chance.


Tell me Woo, why do you care what anyone thinks about this, it isn't real obvious it took years and years to get to where we all are on this? Do you really think some stranger hiding behind a computer screen is going to make some huge impact on those opinions?

I primarily do this because I like discussing this topic. It fascinates me how people will be perfectly logical in every other facet of their lives, them turn around and throw all their reasoning skills away when it comes to religion. Not only do they become illogical, they also embrace their irrational beliefs.


Woo, I gotta tell you I know a lot of people who would read you and giggle. It would be a roll of the eyes and ..."poor guy".....I'm dead serious. You are making no impact at all, none, absolutely zero. Why you even bother is a mystery to me.

I don't really care because I know that those people believe in stupid things for stupid reasons. It doesn't matter how rich, famous, successful they are; nor does it matter how many of them believe. We differ in that I believe that a belief is either good or not based on its own merits; you believe that a belief has merit based on the people who believe in them, not based on the belief itself. That's a flaw in your reasoning that has been pointed out many times before, but you simply do not care. You are right in that I won't be changing many people's minds, because people like you--irrational people who are unwilling to think objectively--exist.


Do you really think...

me...I'm done believing in some higher power.
Judy...why?
me...Woo did it.
Judy...Woo who?
me...Woo-Bum-kon
Judy...what the hell is a Woo-Bum-kon?
me..this cat on the internet, he really knows his stuff.
Judy..somebody calling themselves, Woo-Bum-kon, you're kidding right?
me...hmmm? Yeah you're right, what would a Woo-Bum-kon know?
Judy..what is he, some Mongolian?
me...hahaha~~!

This is just stupid.

[Avante]

Woo, do you really think anyones cares enought about you to read all that? Let me guess you don't believe, ok, cool~~~~~~~

Woo who, hahaha!!!!!!

When I see someone like you who only does this gig to argue, I pretty much tune them out. All you ever do is whine, argue and wimper. How about coming to your senses and realze I'm not the least bit concened with what you think. Who would be?

I don't even read 80% of all that long winded stuff. So when dealing with me get in and get out, keep it short.

[Woo Bum-kon]

You care enough to argue about it and make threads about it.

You whine about me not wanting an actual dialogue, yet you have stated that you don't want a dialogue. You don't want to have a discussion. You don't care about how weak and non-sensical your stance is. You pride yourself in being non-sensical.

[Avante]

You care enough to argue about it and make threads about it.

You whine about me not wanting an actual dialogue, yet you have stated that you don't want a dialogue. You don't want to have a discussion. You don't care about how weak and non-sensical your stance is. You pride yourself in being non-sensical.

Look again, what was this thread actually about?

Ok keep it about that lenght and I'll listen, don't be rambling on and on, ok?

Where in the hell did you get that...Woo-Bum-kon....anyway?

[Woo Bum-kon]

Heaven, which is a religious concept.

You claim that it's stupid to talk about religion, but you talk about it just as much as I do. You also keep making threads about it. So, you are being extremely hypocritical when you whine about others talking about religion, because you do, too.

[Avante]

Heaven, which is a religious concept.

You claim that it's stupid to talk about religion, but you talk about it just as much as I do. You also keep making threads about it. So, you are being extremely hypocritical when you whine about others talking about religion, because you do, too.

You actually thought this was a serious thread about religion? You can't be serious.

[Woo Bum-kon]

I didn't say that. You can't read.

Serious or not, this is a thread about religion. You like talking about religion just as much as I do. The only difference is that you are terrible at it.

[Avante]

I didn't say that. You can't read.

Serious or not, this is a thread about religion. You like talking about religion just as much as I do. The only difference is that you are terrible at it.

That's much better, cool the sermons.

I'm not the one....."oh yeah, well prove it"....like a kid who knows nothing about this. It's all about faith......obviously. Yet here you are acting like some weirdo without a clue. Trust me Woo, besides being a total fool you have no idea what you're talking about, if you did you'd realize nobody cares about proof of anything, it's spiritual....you do not get that?

[Woo Bum-kon]

I do get that. I know exactly what faith is. Religious leaders have indoctrinated people with the idea that belief for no reason is somehow praiseworthy, and you lapped that shit up.

If you had a good reason to believe, you wouldn't need faith. Faith isn't a get out of jail free card. A stupid, unsupported belief is a stupid, unsupported belief. Just because you claim that your stupid beliefs don't need any kind of support doesn't make it so. Your beliefs are stupid and you have stupid reasons for believing them.

[Avante]

I do get that. I know exactly what faith is. Religious leaders have indoctrinated people with the idea that belief for no reason is somehow praiseworthy, and you lapped that shit up.

If you had a good reason to believe, you wouldn't need faith. Faith isn't a get out of jail free card. A stupid, unsupported belief is a stupid, unsupported belief. Just because you claim that your stupid beliefs don't need any kind of support doesn't make it so. Your beliefs are stupid and you have stupid reasons for believing them.

Then there are those like you who are just plain stupid.

Look around Woo, ever notice most people totally and completely disagree with you? National holidays over religious beliefs, what's that tell you? Take a buck out of your wallet, what's it say? Don't forget Woo....One Nation Under God. Stupid is thinking somebody like you knows better. I feel sorry for you Woo, look at yourself, now how sad was that?

Ok Woo, stick to...DUH!!!!!!...looks good on... you Woo who..hahahaha!!!!!!!!

See ya~~~~~~~~~~~~~

[Woo Bum-kon]

Then there are those like you who are just plain stupid.

:lol Yes, the one calling for rationality and objectivity is stupid.


Look around Woo, ever notice most people totally and completely disagree with you? National holidays over religious beliefs, what's that tell you? Take a buck out of your wallet, what's it say? Don't forget Woo....One Nation Under God. Stupid is thinking somebody like you knows better. I feel sorry for you Woo, look at yourself, how sad was that?

Like I stated less than an hour ago, you care more about who is making a claim than the claim itself. All that you posted is irrelevant to whether God exists or not. You are committing more logical fallacies, and you don't even care.


Ok Woo, stick to...DUH!!!!!!...looks good on... you Woo who..hahahaha!!!!!!!!

See ya~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Nothing is funnier than you calling somebody else stupid right before you post unintelligible crap like this.

[Avante]

This will be my last take in this thread.

I don't care about proof, or logic when it comes to believeing in some Masterblaster. Is it logical to spend $$$$ knowing you could be killing yourself, smokers do it everyday. Can we prove emotions?

The bottom line is what makes you feel the best about the situation. As we can see some prefer to go it alone, they have no hope or faith in anything. As we also know they are in the minority, most people are smarter than that.

The world we live in surrounds us with God and Jesus and Allah and Jehovah etc etc. Churchs all over the place. Rinky dinky little towns with a gas station, hardware store, a grocery store and ....a church. Why anyone would fight this...???? What does anyone gain by doing that, yep...nothing. Nobody gives a damn if your Christmas is a joke, nobody cares about..."you can't fool me I got smarts." There is a reason the majority of people who have lived on this earth had some God.

Done~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

[Woo Bum-kon]

This will be my last take in this thread.

I seriously doubt that.


I don't care about proof, or logic when it comes to believeing in some Masterblaster.

Clearly.


Is it logical to spend $$$$ knowing you could be killing yourself, smokers do it everyday.

Ouch. That doesn't help your case much.


Can we prove emotions?

Yes.


As we can see some prefer to go it alone, they have no hope or faith in anything.

:lol You still don't know what atheism actually is. You are embarrassingly ignorant of the most basic concepts in regards to religion, yet you run your mouth anyway. It would be best for you to stop commenting on something you know so little about.


As we also know they are in the minority most people are smarter than that.

:lol Because nothing says intelligence like throwing logic and reasoning out the window and believing because you were told to believe.

You are making a great argument so far.


The world we live in surrounds us with God and Jesus and Allah and Jehovah etc etc. Churchs all over the place. Rinky dinky little towns with a gas station a grocery store and ....a church. Why anyone would fight this...???? What does anyonre gain by doing that, yep...nothing.

Yeah, why would anybody care about the truth? We should keep wasting money donating to churches an praying instead of actually doing anything of merit.

[Blake]

So how do you celebrate Christmas, totally play it off as if it were about Santa and gift giving? Does it piss you off when you get a card talking about Jesus? What about gospel music? What about all those church goers? How do you deal with Easter, just a day to hunt eggs, eat marshmellow bunnies? What about....one nation under God? Ever felt like an outcast because everyone else was saying grace?

What do you gain by playing this..bah humbug...role? Grannie is dying the whole family is there, grandpa asks everyone to bow their head in prayer, what do you do? Little cousin asks you ..."is Brownie in doggie Heaven?"...what do you tell her..."wise up kid there ain't no Heaven"...?

No problem with people believing in fairy tales and talking to invisible people in the sky.

If we can get all religious people to keep their strict holy book beliefs out of politics, I would gain a better, happier and smarter society.