Why did the NBA deny Sacramento to Seattle?

[Thebesteva]

I just dont get it...the Kings owners just sold the team to another group instead and they'll remain in Sacramento. But everyone knows Seattle is dying for a team.

What was the justification behind it by Stern and the rest of them?

[Technique]

We'll never know the real reason. Seattle's bid was much stronger, they even offered to add an extra 100m on top of the bid that was already higher than Sacramento's.

Basketball Reasons tbh

[Trainwreck2100]

Malloofs should sue the league for losing out on that 100 mil.

Owners know now they can dangle Seattle in front of any city who won't agree to build a new arena. That deal is atrocious for the city of Sacramento

[lefty]

As much as I want to see Seattle get an NBA team back, it shouldnt be done at the expense of Sacto

Just move the Thunder back to Seattle, who cares about that shithole OKC

[KaiRMD1]

Stern was really disappointed that Seattle didn't get a team.

[Reck]

Cant they just add another team to the league? I understand this would upset the balance scale of 15 teams per but what the hell.

Or they can always nuked any particular shitty Eastern team not named Heat and put 'em on the cross.

[Thebesteva]

Cant they just add another team to the league? I understand this would upset the balance scale of 15 teams per but what the hell.

Or they can always nuked any particular shitty Eastern team not named Heat and put 'em on the cross.

Why not just move the Raptors...its almost like they're not really in the NBA anyway

[TDMVPDPOY]

seatle had their shot, but they failed at the time

so they reap what they sow....

[mudyez]

Cant they just add another team to the league? I understand this would upset the balance scale of 15 teams per but what the hell.

Or they can always nuked any particular shitty Eastern team not named Heat and put 'em on the cross.

Even though they say it will not happen, I see them adding two teams (thus having 8 4-team-divisions like the NFL) within the next 12 years.
Its not a good thing, coz there are only so many high caliber players around, but 32 is a better number (half of all teams make the playoffs / you could give the 4 divisionwinners homecourt in the first round / etc.).

[Captivus]

RK
TEAM
GMS
TOTAL (http://espn.go.com/nba/attendance/_/sort/homeTotal)
AVG (http://espn.go.com/nba/attendance/_/order/false)
PCT (http://espn.go.com/nba/attendance/_/sort/homePct)


1
Bulls (http://espn.go.com/nba/team/_/name/chi/chicago-bulls)
41
896,944
21,876
104.6


2
Mavericks (http://espn.go.com/nba/team/_/name/dal/dallas-mavericks)
41
821,490
20,036
104.4


3
Heat (http://espn.go.com/nba/team/_/name/mia/miami-heat)
41
819,290
19,982
102.0


4
Trail Blazers (http://espn.go.com/nba/team/_/name/por/portland-trail-blazers)
41
813,012
19,829
95.4


5
Warriors (http://espn.go.com/nba/team/_/name/gs/golden-state-warriors)
41
794,320
19,373
98.9


6
Clippers (http://espn.go.com/nba/team/_/name/lac/los-angeles-clippers)
41
788,293
19,226
100.9


7
NY Knicks (http://espn.go.com/nba/team/_/name/ny/new-york-knicks)
41
780,353
19,033
96.3


8
Lakers (http://espn.go.com/nba/team/_/name/lal/los-angeles-lakers)
41
778,877
18,997
99.7


9
Jazz (http://espn.go.com/nba/team/_/name/utah/utah-jazz)
41
765,915
18,680
93.8


10
Celtics (http://espn.go.com/nba/team/_/name/bos/boston-celtics)
40
744,960
18,624
100.0


11
Spurs (http://espn.go.com/nba/team/_/name/sa/san-antonio-spurs)
41
755,700
18,431
99.2


12
Thunder (http://espn.go.com/nba/team/_/name/okc/oklahoma-city-thunder)
41
746,323
18,203
100.0


13
Raptors (http://espn.go.com/nba/team/_/name/tor/toronto-raptors)
41
743,936
18,144
91.6


14
Nuggets (http://espn.go.com/nba/team/_/name/den/denver-nuggets)
41
730,616
17,819
93.0


15
Magic (http://espn.go.com/nba/team/_/name/orl/orlando-magic)
41
721,414
17,595
93.4


16
Nets (http://espn.go.com/nba/team/_/name/bkn/brooklyn-nets)
41
704,702
17,187
94.9


17
76ers (http://espn.go.com/nba/team/_/name/phi/philadelphia-76ers)
41
685,412
16,717
82.2


18
Rockets (http://espn.go.com/nba/team/_/name/hou/houston-rockets)
41
683,564
16,672
92.4


19
Grizzlies (http://espn.go.com/nba/team/_/name/mem/memphis-grizzlies)
41
681,613
16,624
91.8


20
Wizards (http://espn.go.com/nba/team/_/name/wsh/washington-wizards)
41
670,070
16,343
80.6


21
Timberwolves (http://espn.go.com/nba/team/_/name/min/minnesota-timberwolves)
41
669,956
16,340
84.4


22
Cavaliers (http://espn.go.com/nba/team/_/name/cle/cleveland-cavaliers)
41
663,882
16,192
78.7


23
Suns (http://espn.go.com/nba/team/_/name/phx/phoenix-suns)
41
632,913
15,436
83.8


24
Bobcats (http://espn.go.com/nba/team/_/name/cha/charlotte-bobcats)
41
628,293
15,324
80.3


25
Pacers (http://espn.go.com/nba/team/_/name/ind/indiana-pacers)
41
626,069
15,269
84.1


26
Hawks (http://espn.go.com/nba/team/_/name/atl/atlanta-hawks)
41
620,146
15,125
80.8


27
Bucks (http://espn.go.com/nba/team/_/name/mil/milwaukee-bucks)
41
616,469
15,035
80.3


28
Pistons (http://espn.go.com/nba/team/_/name/det/detroit-pistons)
41
606,094
14,782
67.0


29
Pelicans (http://espn.go.com/nba/team/_/name/no/new-orleans-pelicans)
41
565,930
13,803
80.3


30
Kings (http://espn.go.com/nba/team/_/name/sac/sacramento-kings)
41
563,743
13,749
79.4



Attendance chart.
How can the PCT be higher than 100%? (edited question)

[CubanMustGo]

Selling SRO / non-permanent seating.

[Findog]

The NBA used Seattle as leverage to get a taxpayer-raping facility out of the city of Sacramento. It was win-win as far as the NBA was concerned: Either Sacramento would bend over and take it up the ass dry, which is what happened...or they'd go back to a top 12 market and a city dying for the return of the NBA in a new building.

And the NBA will continue to use Seattle as leverage to extort taxpayer-financed buildings out of every market just like the NFL does with LA.

[Findog]

What is pretty fucked up is that they ended up pitting two cities against each other and putting both of those fanbases through hell - Seattle fans hoping on pins and needles that they would get another team; Sacto fans having to worry about whether or not their team would leave.

If the NBA was so concerned about doing everything possible to get a new building built in Sacto before leaving, why not just do the same thing they did with New Orleans and buy the team from the Maloofs and search for a local buyer? I find it strange that they let things get as far as a PSA between the Maloofs and the Seattle group before springing into action and trying to find local bidders. I think it was cruel to fans in Seattle. They should have done the same thing that they did with the Hornets/Pelicans if they were so hell-bent on not relocating the team. And it was also cruel to fans in Sacto for this process to play out the way it did.

As it is I think they just kicked the can down the road with Sacramento. Seattle is a bigger market and has more of a corporate base for sponsorships and such. Sacramento doesn't have the same kind of industry being a state capitol. A new building is not going to solve the problem that Sacto is just not a good market for the NBA anymore. Look at Indiana - they're in a building less than 15 years old and they didn't draw this year with a team that is on the cusp of reaching the conference finals.

[Findog]

http://deadspin.com/the-kings-are-staying-home-but-the-nba-is-still-rigged-507595774

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

It sounds far fetched to think the NBA would give up a market as good as Seattle just to use it as leverage but I'm beginning to think that's exactly what's going on here. It's the only reasonable explanation for why that ownership group wasn't approved when the two bids weren't even close.

IMO the Magoofs should be suing the NBA's pants off.

[Leetonidas]

It's because they have a strong fanbase. I think the NBA wants the precedent that if you have the fanbase and support they will not support the relocation of a team. If Seattle had built that arena there would be a lot of meth addicts in OKC with no team to root for except the Hornets for that year they played there

[jeebus]

I was surprised at how many people on the forum supported Stern; I was hoping the Seattle group would fuck him in the ass with this deal but instead Stern and his goons fucked over everyone.

[Findog]

It sounds far fetched to think the NBA would give up a market as good as Seattle just to use it as leverage but I'm beginning to think that's exactly what's going on here. It's the only reasonable explanation for why that ownership group wasn't approved when the two bids weren't even close.

IMO the Magoofs should be suing the NBA's pants off.

David Stern has lost his fucking mind and is just an arrogant, petty fool at this point. I think Sacto was one of his pet projects because they relocated from Kansas City to California his first year as commissioner. They should be tripping over themselves to get such a well-financed group as Hansen, Ballmer and the Nordstrom family, a group that promised that they would be a tax payer and not a revenue taker, and which was going to build a new arena.

Small markets can work in the NBA (San Antonio, Portland, Salt Lake City) but they have to be exceedingly well-run organizations. It's just stupid to leave larger markets for smaller ones.

[JoeTait75]

The NBA used Seattle as leverage to get a taxpayer-raping facility out of the city of Sacramento. It was win-win as far as the NBA was concerned: Either Sacramento would bend over and take it up the ass dry, which is what happened...or they'd go back to a top 12 market and a city dying for the return of the NBA in a new building.

And the NBA will continue to use Seattle as leverage to extort taxpayer-financed buildings out of every market just like the NFL does with LA.

I think the difference is that there is legitimate interest in getting an NBA team back into Seattle, and I'm not sure the same can be said for the NFL and Los Angeles. IMO.

If I were a Seattle sports fan I'd rather try and get an NHL team into the city than an NBA team. I actually think Seattle would be a better hockey market than basketball market at this point.

[Findog]

Stern is a lawyer and you know he always measures his words carefully. His first remarks at his press conference to announce the Kings were staying were "I can't stay long, I have a game in OKC to get to." Fuck this guy. What an ass.

[Findog]

I think the difference is that there is legitimate interest in getting an NBA team back into Seattle, and I'm not sure the same can be said for the NFL and Los Angeles. IMO.

If I were a Seattle sports fan I'd rather try and get an NHL team into the city than an NBA team. I actually think Seattle would be a better hockey market than basketball market at this point.

It might also be their best shot at convincing the NBA to grant an expansion franchise bc I don't know what team is going to relocate at this point. If they couldn't get a team without a lease (Sacto) I don't see how they will ever be able to relocate a team. An NHL team in a new arena and lots of corporate and fan support would demonstrate the viability of the market.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

David Stern has lost his fucking mind and is just an arrogant, petty fool at this point. I think Sacto was one of his pet projects because they relocated from Kansas City to California his first year as commissioner. They should be tripping over themselves to get such a well-financed group as Hansen, Ballmer and the Nordstrom family, a group that promised that they would be a tax payer and not a revenue taker, and which was going to build a new arena.

Small markets can work in the NBA (San Antonio, Portland, Salt Lake City) but they have to be exceedingly well-run organizations. It's just stupid to leave larger markets for smaller ones.
I think it's brilliance from Stern. Since he became commissioner and made it so cities need to get in a corporate welfare bidding war with each other as far as which one gets a team has exponentially increased the salaries of the players while only adding to the owner's profits. It's completely ass raped the tax payers in a lot of cities and redistributed wealth away from the middle class, but I don't blame him for that since it's not his job.

[AaronY]

The problem was Sacramento met the Maloofs every demand a few times and all the Maloofs did was keep demanding more and more..the other owners had enough of that shit..the local offer was more than fair and the Maloofs dicked the city over again and again..its like if you go to the only doctor available for a surgery (Sac isn't getting another team, Kings were their only choice) and he says $50,000 then when you come back with the 50k he says sorry 75k then you come back with 75k and he says 75k and the deed to your house and then he says sorry 75k, deed to your house, and your car..NBA is a collective operation..owners told the Maloofs to go fuck themselves allredy..good for them..

[Findog]

The problem was Sacramento met the Maloofs every demand a few times and all the Maloofs did was keep demanding more and more..the other owners had enough of that shit..the local offer was more than fair and the Maloofs dicked the city over again and again..its like if you go to the only doctor available for a surgery (Sac isn't getting another team, Kings were their only choice) and he says $50,000 then when you come back with the 50k he says sorry 75k then you come back with 75k and he says 75k and the deed to your house and then he says sorry 75k, deed to your house, and your car..NBA is a collective operation..owners told the Maloofs to go fuck themselves allredy..good for them..

I agree but in that case they should have bought the team from the Maloofs and handled it the same way they did New Orleans. Using Seattle as leverage and getting the hopes of those fans for a return of the NBA was just cruel, as well as cruel to the fans in Sacto that had to contend with the very real possibility of losing their team.

[AaronY]

Point is these leagues are not pure capitalist enterprises for instance like when Mike Williams and Maurice Claurett wanted to play before the three years..I remember Roger Cossack saying they would win in court easily..How can you prevent someone of legal working age from working in their chosen profession, I thought?..well the courts ruled the league could decide on its own employment rules and even if one team didnt agree with them and wanted to sign a freshman or whatever it didn't matter as long as most of the other teams wanted that rule and they had agreed to do things by majority vote..same here owners collectively decided anally raping a city wasn't in the best interests of the league so they told the Maloofs they can go suck a cock..

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

I agree but in that case they should have bought the team from the Maloofs and handled it the same way they did New Orleans. Using Seattle as leverage and getting the hopes of those fans for a return of the NBA was just cruel, as well as cruel to the fans in Sacto that had to contend with the very real possibility of losing their team.
This is mostly speculation but one reason why Stern could have had such an allegiance to keeping the team in New Orleans is his effort in the last 5-10 years to increase NBA popularity in red states. When he implemented the dress code I remember several analysts calling it the NBA's "red state rule" because it was obvious pandering to jeebotards who didn't like the site of Allen Iverson showing up to games in a tall T and gold chains.

It would explain why he's so open about fucking Seattle (one of the bluest cities in the country) over in favor of OKC and why he was a lot more proactive in ensuring New Orleans keeps its team than he was Sacramento. Knuckle dragging right wingers like monster1776 would still think the NBA is league full of "gangsters and hoodlums!" if not for Stern fighting tooth and nail to get a team in OKC.

[AaronY]

I agree but in that case they should have bought the team from the Maloofs and handled it the same way they did New Orleans. Using Seattle as leverage and getting the hopes of those fans for a return of the NBA was just cruel, as well as cruel to the fans in Sacto that had to contend with the very real possibility of losing their team.
Yeah, I don't know if Stern could have gotten the owners to buy into that again..Shinn, now there's another phaggot owner who turned a huge profit for running a team into the ground..he really screwed over Charlotte which used to be a good fan base believe it or not (led the league in attendance a bunch during the 90s)..Charlotte, now thats a good example of a small market that went to shit as well..

[jeebus]

Allen Iverson showing up to games in a tall T and gold chains.

:cry and now he can't afford a cheeseburger :cry

[baseline bum]

The NBA used Seattle as leverage to get a taxpayer-raping facility out of the city of Sacramento. It was win-win as far as the NBA was concerned: Either Sacramento would bend over and take it up the ass dry, which is what happened...or they'd go back to a top 12 market and a city dying for the return of the NBA in a new building.

And the NBA will continue to use Seattle as leverage to extort taxpayer-financed buildings out of every market just like the NFL does with LA.

That's business in modern America. Subsidize the "job-creators" or we pack up and move out of state. Disgusting, but those are the rules you play by now.

[Homeland Security]

because it was obvious pandering to jeebotardsIt was pandering to the suits who buy luxury boxes, not to jeebotards. jeebotards don't follow the NBA and won't start following it until a 7'1" version of Tim Tebow emerges.

[baseline bum]

I think it's brilliance from Stern. Since he became commissioner and made it so cities need to get in a corporate welfare bidding war with each other as far as which one gets a team has exponentially increased the salaries of the players while only adding to the owner's profits. It's completely ass raped the tax payers in a lot of cities and redistributed wealth away from the middle class, but I don't blame him for that since it's not his job.

Stern just adapting with the changing times to do what works in modern America.

[baseline bum]

It was pandering to the suits who buy luxury boxes, not to jeebotards. jeebotards don't follow the NBA and won't start following it until a 7'1" version of Tim Tebow emerges.

He emerged and then bowed out 4 games later a few weeks ago.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

Stern just adapting with the changing times to do what works in modern America.
Agreed, I don't hold it against him. Having stuff like ethics, compassion for middle class Americans, and concern over wealth distribution will get you chewed up and spit out in modern America.

[jeebus]

until a 7'1" version of Tim Tebow emerges.
He retired in 2003 tbh and didn't have much of a following except here in SA

[Clipper Nation]

Sacramento actually worked to keep their team and did everything that was asked of them, unlike other cities, and the NBA didn't want to set the precedent that no matter how much effort a city puts in to keep their team, if a rich billionaire wants to move it to another city, you're fucked....

Not to mention, Stern and the owners didn't like the fact that Hansen and Ballmer tried to strong-arm the league by raising their bid at the last minute....

[Quadzilla99]

Point is these leagues are not pure capitalist enterprises for instance like when Mike Williams and Maurice Claurett wanted to play before the three years..I remember Roger Cossack saying they would win in court easily..How can you prevent someone of legal working age from working in their chosen profession, I thought?..well the courts ruled the league could decide on its own employment rules and even if one team didnt agree with them and wanted to sign a freshman or whatever it didn't matter as long as most of the other teams wanted that rule and they had agreed to do things by majority vote..same here owners collectively decided anally raping a city wasn't in the best interests of the league so they told the Maloofs they can go suck a cock..

Even if this wasn't the case, Maloofs would have a hard time complaining they got screwed over with a straight face. They sold a nickel for a dime and then would want people to feel sorry they didn't get a quarter for it.

[Quadzilla99]

Sacramento actually worked to keep their team and did everything that was asked of them, unlike other cities, and the NBA didn't want to set the precedent that no matter how much effort a city puts in to keep their team, if a rich billionaire wants to move it to another city, you're fucked....

Not to mention, Stern and the owners didn't like the fact that Hansen and Ballmer tried to strong-arm the league by raising their bid at the last minute....

Yeah, the Maloofs had no excuse and kept moving the goalposts. At least with Seattle and Bennett they could say Seattle didn't meet it obligations with a semi-straight face, no way they could pull that kind of crap here. Sacramento met every reasonable demand and then some.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

Sacramento actually worked to keep their team and did everything that was asked of them, unlike other cities, and the NBA didn't want to set the precedent that no matter how much effort a city puts in to keep their team, if a rich billionaire wants to move it to another city, you're fucked....

Not to mention, Stern and the owners didn't like the fact that Hansen and Ballmer tried to strong-arm the league by raising their bid at the last minute....
I'd much rather have a system where rich billionaires move the team wherever they want while financing everything themselves rather than the current system where cities put a huge burden on taxpayers to build owners a new arena.

[Clipper Nation]

I'd much rather have a system where rich billionaires move the team wherever they want while financing everything themselves rather than the current system where cities put a huge burden on taxpayers to build owners a new arena.
I think the taxpayer-funded arena thing is bullshit, but it's just as dumb to turn down an existing market with a history of strong fan support who actually wants to keep their team....

[Latarian Milton]

don't see no such motives for the league to fool one city in favor of another imho. seattle ain't yet ready to land an NBA franchise when they don't have no stadium that meets NBA standard, which's not stern or the league's fault imho

[Thebesteva]

The NBA used Seattle as leverage to get a taxpayer-raping facility out of the city of Sacramento. It was win-win as far as the NBA was concerned: Either Sacramento would bend over and take it up the ass dry, which is what happened...or they'd go back to a top 12 market and a city dying for the return of the NBA in a new building.

And the NBA will continue to use Seattle as leverage to extort taxpayer-financed buildings out of every market just like the NFL does with LA.

Disgusting sig tbh...and just about nothing can offend me. Well done

[lefty]

I think the difference is that there is legitimate interest in getting an NBA team back into Seattle, and I'm not sure the same can be said for the NFL and Los Angeles. IMO.

If I were a Seattle sports fan I'd rather try and get an NHL team into the city than an NBA team. I actually think Seattle would be a better hockey market than basketball market at this point.



It might also be their best shot at convincing the NBA to grant an expansion franchise bc I don't know what team is going to relocate at this point. If they couldn't get a team without a lease (Sacto) I don't see how they will ever be able to relocate a team. An NHL team in a new arena and lots of corporate and fan support would demonstrate the viability of the market.


Or is it the other way around?

A few weeks ago, the NHL insiders were saying that a possible relocation of the PHX Coyotes to Seattle would depend on wether or not the NBA would allow the relocation of the Kings to Seattle (which would mean the new Sonics arena would convince Bettman to move the Coyotes)

[DeadlyDynasty]

I think the difference is that there is legitimate interest in getting an NBA team back into Seattle, and I'm not sure the same can be said for the NFL and Los Angeles. IMO.

It's completely mind-boggling how one of the biggest markets in the world doesn't have an NFL team

[baseline bum]

It's completely mind-boggling how one of the biggest markets in the world doesn't have an NFL team

'Eh, LA taxpayers won't build a new stadium.

[Jacob1983]

This is probably Stern's shitty way of apologizing for screwing the Kings in 2002.

[JoeTait75]

It's completely mind-boggling how one of the biggest markets in the world doesn't have an NFL team

Market size might matter less in the NFL than in any other major sports league in the world, tbh.

[Raven]

i'm pretty sure that if the seattle group would have offered the 600+ offer from the start, instead of rising it after the first one was matched, seattle would now have a franchise. it would seem in nba's best interests to allow offers to be raised, however from a sportive point of view it would be lame to allow constant bidding wars.

[Venti Quattro]

It's mind-boggling how a shithole like Sacramento has still an NBA franchise.

[TimmehC]

Attendance chart.
How can the PCT be higher than 100%? (edited question)
Amazing how shitty the Pacers' attendance is. That's one of the best teams in the East, and they can't sell out on a regular basis? The fucking Bobcats sold more tickets. Indiana doesn't deserve that team.

[dbestpro]

This is more a message to cities with existing teams. The NBA is saying when we say, "jump", you say, "how high?" or we will put you in a Seattle limbo.

[baseline bum]

Amazing how shitty the Pacers' attendance is. That's one of the best teams in the East, and they can't sell out on a regular basis? The fucking Bobcats sold more tickets. Indiana doesn't deserve that team.

That makes no sense. I mean Indianapolis surely hasn't gotten killed by the housing bust as badly as Sacramento. They have a strong and successful team filled with pretty likeable players in a beautiful modern stadium.

[toki9]

Apparently Sacramento's new ownership agreed to limit how much they take from the revenue-sharing agreement in the short run, and give it up completely once they move into new arena, a potentially huge financial upside for many of the current owners (although once the franchise moved to Seattle, they probably would have paid into the revenue-sharing rather than take from it)...so money had a lot to do with it...

http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2013/5/6/4305694/sacramento-kings-revenue-sharing-vivek-ranadive