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View Full Version : Grantland: The Kawhi Leonard Conundrum, and Why Life Is Unfair


ace3g
05-19-2013, 08:14 AM
Rooting for a perpetually hopeless franchise will drive you insane for a number of reasons. You know this. But you know when it gets really bad? The playoffs, when you have to watch players your team passed up dominate on another team. Actually that's not it, either. It gets REALLY bad when you watch someone like Kawhi Leonard dominating for the Spurs and realize that this never would've happened if he'd landed with your team.


This epiphany is the most crushing truth of them all.


I'm speaking from experience as a Wizards fan, and after a month of watching the NBA playoffs, we need to talk about this for a minute. The Wizards passed on Leonard to draft Jan Vesley in 2010. It seemed crazy at the time and has only gotten worse as the years have passed. But if we're being honest here, watching Leonard blossom into a two-way star for the Spurs isn't even what's frustrating. It's knowing that if Vesley had been the one who was drafted by the Spurs, he'd probably turn into a weapon for years to come, and if Leonard went to the Wizards, he'd probably turn into an über-athletic wing with limited skills who becomes indistinguishable from about 50 other wing players in the NBA.

continue reading: http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-triangle/post/_/id/62485/the-kawhi-leonard-conundrum-and-why-life-is-unfair
100%duncan
05-19-2013, 08:29 AM
Great read :tu

:lol
Mr.Bottomtooth
05-19-2013, 08:41 AM
Poor Wizards fans.
hooperflash
05-19-2013, 08:41 AM
Truth bomb
boutons_deux
05-19-2013, 08:58 AM
Shows that Tim Duncan on some shitty team might not be a HoFer, and probably NO rings, or even Finals, but with Pop's organization/culture, coaching, and player selection/development around Tim, Tim and Pop achieve legendary success across all professional sports.
BG_Spurs_Fan
05-19-2013, 09:10 AM
Shows that Tim Duncan on some shitty team might not be a HoFer, and probably NO rings, or even Finals, but with Pop's organization/culture, coaching, and player selection/development around Tim, Tim and Pop achieve legendary success across all professional sports.

True and Tim would probably be the first to admit how lucky he's been to land in Pop's and DRob's hands.
milkyway21
05-19-2013, 09:14 AM
It gets REALLY bad when you watch someone like Kawhi Leonard dominating for the Spurs and realize that this never would've happened if he'd landed with your team.
This epiphany is the most crushing truth of them all.

I'm speaking from experience as a Wizards fan, and after a month of watching the NBA playoffs, we need to talk about this for a minute. The Wizards passed on Leonard to draft Jan Vesley in 2010. :cry I'd feel the same.
Some guys have all the luck?
skulls138
05-19-2013, 09:23 AM
Shows that Tim Duncan on some shitty team might not be a HoFer, and probably NO rings, or even Finals, but with Pop's organization/culture, coaching, and player selection/development around Tim, Tim and Pop achieve legendary success across all professional sports.I think Duncan wouldve got a ring anywhere. Maybe not four (and hopefully counting) but at least two.
100%duncan
05-19-2013, 09:30 AM
I think Duncan wouldve got a ring anywhere. Maybe not four (and hopefully counting) but at least two.

This tbh. Saying Tim won't win a ring in other teams is fkin obsolete.

There are players that are born to be superstars and there are players that need to be bred to be superstars.
milkyway21
05-19-2013, 09:31 AM
I think Duncan wouldve got a ring anywhere. Maybe not four (and hopefully counting) but at least two.


http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRD6VfW8K35oNDE_6RO0kT7iabWLmD8d 76BJoth02yAKNztgzQmAQ

:D #12?
exstatic
05-19-2013, 09:51 AM
http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRD6VfW8K35oNDE_6RO0kT7iabWLmD8d 76BJoth02yAKNztgzQmAQ

:D #12?

Celtics #21 was Bill Sharman and has been retired longer than Duncan has been alive.
barakz21
05-19-2013, 09:56 AM
http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRD6VfW8K35oNDE_6RO0kT7iabWLmD8d 76BJoth02yAKNztgzQmAQ

:D #12?


TD in celtic green??? Blasphemy! Take this down! Lol, seriously though, I can't even imagine TD donning any other color aside from silver and black. And it's even weirder actually having a visualization of that. Man, I am damn lucky to be fan of this man and franchise.
m33p0
05-19-2013, 10:08 AM
"pure fucking evil"
i love that :lol

and Tim would have won anywhere.
100%duncan
05-19-2013, 10:12 AM
http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRD6VfW8K35oNDE_6RO0kT7iabWLmD8d 76BJoth02yAKNztgzQmAQ

:D #12?

Holy fuck that hurt my eyes. :lol
GaryJohnston
05-19-2013, 10:57 AM
True and Tim would probably be the first to admit how lucky he's been to land in Pop's and DRob's hands.

And Pop would be the first to admit how lucky is to of landed Tim Duncan. Duncan would of had a HOF career with the Celtics or Sixers (2 teams I believe were vying for the top pick at the time). He may not have 4 rings, but he'd have at least 1 if not 2.
Budkin
05-19-2013, 10:59 AM
"pure fucking evil"
i love that :lol

and Tim would have won anywhere.

That made me laugh.
SanDiegoSpursFan
05-19-2013, 11:04 AM
Knowing your role is great, but if a player doesn't have skills/talent, they're gonna be bad even if they know their role. Lack of a role doesn't explain fouling every 6 minutes, or not being able to make a shot outside of 10 feet.
crc21209
05-19-2013, 12:17 PM
Great article. :tu Goes to show that the bad teams cant just "tank" to get a boderline star and become a great team. It takes a good front office and coach to make things click...
spurraider21
05-19-2013, 12:59 PM
If Duncan got drafted by the Lakers he'd break Bill Russell's record tbh
MR-Clutch
05-19-2013, 01:52 PM
http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=214512&p=6574608#post6574608
Spurs21Fan4Ever
05-19-2013, 02:02 PM
I totally agree with that part. Leonard is very smart and he knows his limitation, and he allowed himself to be limited so that he could be part of a very successful franchise. However I disagree with the Duncan part, I think Duncan made Pop, Parker, and Ginobili way more than the other way around. I have no doubt Duncan would've been just as good anywhere he went to.
milkyway21
05-19-2013, 02:29 PM
TD in celtic green??? Blasphemy! Take this down! Lol, seriously though, I can't even imagine TD donning any other color aside from silver and black. And it's even weirder actually having a visualization of that. Man, I am damn lucky to be fan of this man and franchise.

this was after the Spurs won their 4th title. Celtics still hurting huh :D
baseline bum
05-19-2013, 02:37 PM
:lol no one could have developed Vesely into anything
milkyway21
05-19-2013, 02:39 PM
Kawli is where he is today because he is a hardworker.
MR-Clutch
05-21-2013, 04:25 PM
http://wagesofwins.com/2013/05/21/how-did-the-spurs-get-a-player-like-kawhi-leonard/

http://sportige.com/san-antonio-spurs-kawhi-leonard-makes-i-big-four-05-2013/

http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp-spurs-kawhi-leonard-20130521,0,7914991.story

http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/05/19/spurs-have-changed-a-lot-since-2011-loss-to-grizzlies/

Some more good articles, the last one mentions Leonard, but he isn't the focus, still a good read though.
barakz21
05-21-2013, 04:52 PM
However I disagree with the Duncan part, I think Duncan made Pop, Parker, and Ginobili way more than the other way around. I have no doubt Duncan would've been just as good anywhere he went to.

I kinda disagree with your take bro. I mean, It's like with Tom Brady and Bill Belichick. Belichick's record before Brady wasn't that impressive. But what changed when he came with the Patriots was that he had the backing and trust of the ownership. He was allowed to implement his plan. That and he had players who allowed him to coach them made Patriots the dynasty that it was. I think it's pretty similar with the spurs. Pop's 1st season sucked, then he got TD. Got the backing and trust of ownership and got TP, Manu and the rest of the role players to buy in. The result? Success.
Richie
05-21-2013, 04:53 PM
Shows that Tim Duncan on some shitty team might not be a HoFer, and probably NO rings, or even Finals, but with Pop's organization/culture, coaching, and player selection/development around Tim, Tim and Pop achieve legendary success across all professional sports.

This is not what the article is saying at all. The article says teams like Spurs turn possible stars in to stars. They also say that regardless of that, if you luck out in to a great player then you can recover your franchise.

No matter where Timmy went, he would be a star. You get those guys every few years, it was Shaq, then Timmy, then Lebron. If Timmy went to the Wizards, the Wizards would have been a perennial contender just like Lebrons Cavs were.

He might not have won, but the floor would have been a Finals appearance ala Cavaliers in 2007. However, as the article again says, getting that star player will often turn around a franchise and attract that elite coach, like Thibs and the Bulls.
ShoogarBear
05-21-2013, 08:08 PM
Poor Wizards fans.

True. But on the plus side, tickets here are easy to get.
aal04
05-21-2013, 08:35 PM
"pure fucking evil"
i love that :lol

and Tim would have won anywhere.

Tim has done it all with 3 different casts as the main man. Not MJ, not LBJ, not Kobe, no one else has done that.

Ring with Cast of Robinson and Himself - check!
Ring with no one but himself in 2003 - check!
Ring with new cast of TP and Manu - check!