Will Manu ever learn?

[ErnestLynch]

Manu did the right thing. Turn the ball over in the backcourt. Yes that was the right thing to do.

[TJastal]

Nah, Tony usually lands on his feet then slides down on his hip or back. Not upended.

Usually lol. So what about the times he doesn't? Ok... so call it 1-2 uncalled flagrants/game instead. To me it looks like he's always landing "awkwardly".

Another thing.. Allen does manage to get one foot down before landing. Watch the replay.

[TJastal]

Right, it is flagrant without the air quotes.

And your opinion means so much to me.

[ChumpDumper]

Usually lol. So what about the times he doesn't?When he lands like Allen did? Doesn't really happen that often.
Ok... so call it 1-2 uncalled flagrants/game instead.No.
To me it looks like he's always landing "awkwardly". And your opinion means so much to me.


Another thing.. Allen does manage to get one foot down before landing. Watch the replay.I did. Doesn't matter.

[TJastal]

Manu did the right thing. Turn the ball over in the backcourt. Yes that was the right thing to do.

Go fuck a porcupine.

[ElNono]

morning fellas.... feels good to be up 2-0 :hat

[TJastal]

When he lands like Allen did? Doesn't really happen that often.No. And your opinion means so much to me.

I did. Doesn't matter.

Dude ...Parker lands like that almost every other drive to the basket where he gets fouled. Try watching a spurs game sometime. Might be enlightening for you.

[ChumpDumper]

Dude ...Parker lands like that almost every other drive to the basket where he gets fouled.No.
Try watching a spurs game sometime. Might be enlightening for you.Sorry, you can't try to play that card. You spouted off way too often after not watching games.

[ohmwrecker]

It's definitely flagrant IMO..

Manu didn't make a play on the ball, and his mistake was that he pulled Allen down(or at least appeared to pull him)..regardless of whether Allen sold it or not, it's still a flagrant, tbh..

I'm indifferent to Manu's decision, tbh..I understand both sides of the argument, but the Spurs won, so it's all good, tbh..

As much as it pains me to do so . . . I agree. Perfectly stated.

[TJastal]

No.Sorry, you can't try to play that card. You spouted off way too often after not watching games.

Okay fine. You can believe whatever you wish. If you want to believe Parker has never landed on his forearm or hip that's your prerogative. If you want to pretend Allen didn't get a foot down to break his fall again... that's your prerogative. If it makes you feel all giddy inside to imagine Allen paralyzed and in a wheelchair behind the grizzly bench for the rest of the series Go for it I won't stop you. :lol

[ChumpDumper]

Okay fine. You can believe whatever you wish. If you want to believe Parker has never landed on his forearm or hip that's your prerogative.Straw man.
If you want to pretend Allen didn't get a foot down to break his fall again... that's your prerogative.I acknowledged he got a foot down -- it simply didn't matter.
If it makes you feel all giddy inside to imagine Allen paralyzed and in a wheelchair behind the grizzly bench for the rest of the series Go for it I won't stop you. :lolWut?

[polandprzem]

CD being a dick he is

Nothing new

[ChumpDumper]

Well, if you want to make it about me, I guess you can try.

I don't think the flagrant gets rescinded. Could be wrong.

[TJastal]

Straw man.I acknowledged he got a foot down -- it simply didn't matter.Wut?

It was your dumbassed assertion that upended players provide the most bearing on whether a flagrant is called. And the ignoring the fact that a simple reference to the point guard who plays for the team you supposedly watch refutes this idiotic statement.

[ChumpDumper]

It was your dumbassed assertion that upended players provide the most bearing on whether a flagrant is called.More than perceived intent, definitely.
And the ignoring the fact that a simple reference to the point guard who plays for the team you supposedly watch refutes this idiotic statement.Parker rarely falls that way. You're exaggerating.

The foul that was called last night is almost always considered flagrant 1. That's all. No need to lose your shit about it.

[TJastal]

More than perceived intent, definitely.Parker rarely falls that way. You're exaggerating.

The foul that was called last night is almost always considered flagrant 1. That's all. No need to lose your shit about it.

I disagree. I've seen far worse fouls not get tagged flagrant. Especially in the 4th quarter of the WCF. Flagrant would have been Manu yanking his arm down forcefully instead or slapping /hitting his arm. He clearly just grabs hold of Allen's wrist and prevents him from going up for the layup. It was not a flagrant, nor even close to a flagrant. Just a good clean playoff foul.

[ChumpDumper]

I disagree. I've seen far worse fouls not get tagged flagrant. Especially in the 4th quarter of the WCF. Flagrant would have been Manu forcefully yanking his arm down forcefully instead or slapping /hitting his arm. He clearly just grabs hold of Allen's wrist and prevents him from going up for the layup. It was not a flagrant, nor even close to a flagrant. Just a good clean playoff foul.Except it was flagrant. Excessive contact is all that's required and the grab you so helpfully described fit the bill. Of course there is judgment involved, but there have clearly been enough similar flagrant calls in the history of that penalty to conclude this one could easily be called flagrant.

[TJastal]

CD being a dick he is

Nothing new

:clap

And being called out as usual. :lol

[ChumpDumper]

:clap

And being called out as usual. :lolBy the usual people who have to rely on ad hominems. :tu

[024]

I don't really care about the foul, that was on the refs and Allen's acting. It was that terrible turnover before that everyone should be mad about. Ginobili just being Ginobili, turning over the ball and throwing away possessions during crunch time.

[TJastal]

Except it was flagrant. Excessive contact is all that's required and the grab you so helpfully described fit the bill.

Sorry that doesn't fit "the bill". I guess that is where we differ. I'd like to know what you think Manu could have done to prevent the layup and still avoid being "in excess" of the allowed amount of contact. Because I sure can't think of anything less he could have done.

[weebo]

If Manu hadn't been called for a flagrant and Allen misses his free throws, people here would be celebrating the play. Manu did what all players are taught to do in situations like that...don't give up an easy lay up...make them earn it from the FT line.

[ChumpDumper]

Sorry that doesn't fit "the bill". I guess that is where we differ. I'd like to know what you think Manu could have done to prevent the layup and still avoid being "in excess" of the allowed amount of contact. Because I sure can't think of anything less he could have done.What he could have done makes no difference. Only what he did matters, and what he did easily qualifies as a flagrant foul.

[TJastal]

What he could have done makes no difference. Only what he did matters, and what he did easily qualifies as a flagrant foul.

Ahh but it does matter. Officials judge a flagrant just as much (if not moreso) on intent as one poster above that you poo-poo'd so cleverly opined.

[ChumpDumper]

Ahh but it does matter.No, referees do not make calls on alternate realities.

[ohmwrecker]

Chump and TJ will argue with each other until they are both wrong.

[polandprzem]

Refs always judge by their own judgment /opinion/

[polandprzem]

:D

[polandprzem]

That is why they are incosistent as hell and every ref have his own 'way of calling'

[dbreiden83080]

In his prime you put up with the sloppy plays because he could break out anytime and put up a big number but those days are so few and far between. Manu has a basketball IQ of about -12, he just can't stop himself from making bonehead plays.. Spurs win the title in 2006 if not for.. Well you know..

[TJastal]

Chump and TJ will argue with each other until they are both wrong.

Well as many times as Chump moves the goalposts its like trying to grab a live squid with one arthritic hand in in vat of oil blindfolded and under the effect of a tranquilizer shot.

[ohmwrecker]

Well as many times as Chump moves the goalposts its like trying to grab a live squid with one arthritic hand in in vat of oil blindfolded and under the effect of a tranquilizer shot.

True, it's much better to start your argument while standing in quicksand.

[ChumpDumper]

Well as many times as Chump moves the goalposts its like trying to grab a live squid with one arthritic hand in in vat of oil blindfolded and under the effect of a tranquilizer shot.No goalpost was moved by me. It was pretty wasy to call that a flagrant foul. Period.

You're the one trying to introduce multiple timelines into a simple foul call.

[Man In Black]

Sorry peeps but this time the refs went the way of the MLB Umpires. A home run that was taken away even though it was a home run is the same as a Flagrant Foul that wasn't a Flagrant Foul that was called a Flagrant Foul. They even had the review and they blew that call. It's as if it's Ref shenanigans all over again. The only counter for that is MADE BASKETS.

If that playoff foul was deemed unnecessary, then why did Tony Allen get away with a clear trip that was unnecessary? Interpretation?

[Knoxxx]

It was a questionable flagrant, too bad he couldn't get a little closer to the ball with the arm grab. Hopefully Allen gets some kind of retroactive flopping fine though.

As far as the bad looking Ginobili turnover, that was really not on him but the whole team. It was a team-wide horrible possession and he had no choice when he got the ball but to try and throw up a quick prayer. The main thing I think Manu needs to do is drive to the basket more, and early in the game we did a poor job of getting him touches for said approach.

[TD 21]

Also, not to hijack the thread, but is anyone else concerned with how often this team runs out of gas despite not playing a ton of minutes (especially compared to most other guys/teams in the playoffs)? I mean, that is scary as hell how they can be up huge in games, then just completely tank hard.

Yes, MEM is a phenomenal defense but damn. Even the players are saying they were exhausted.

Yeah. But it's not so much the minutes Parker's playing, it's how arduous they are, given Duncan basically reverting to '11 form offensively in the playoffs and Ginobili being nothing more than an ancillary scorer at this point (I'll give him next season to see if he has a Duncan-like re-emergence in him before determining if this is permanent). Parker basically can't rest on any possessions, he's literally having to create and/or finish virtually everything and that, along with all the off ball movement before he even get's the ball to initiate the offense a lot of the time, plus having to chase Conley, is taking it's toll. Keep in mind, with Parker's mileage, he's really closer to 35 than 30.

That's why, even with the three day layoff, either Pop, Parker or both, needs to go to Ginobili and tell him he's got to be more aggressive offensively and take some of the responsibility off of Parker, if they're going to not only close this series out, but have a shot to win it all.

All that being said, they need to shut up about how tired they are after damn near every game. Even if it's obvious, you should never let your opponents know it.

[Brazil]

It was a flagrant there is no doubt. It was not the good decision now this is not something to throw Manu under the bus. I understand for what reason he did it, in the moment it's tough decision and instinct take the better of you sometimes.

Some threads about it are pretty over the top IMHO.

i agree with td21 Manu has to be more aggressive at least to create offense.

[emanueldavidginobili]

Literally the same EXACT thing Manu did just happend and no flagarant was called

[Man In Black]

Exactly the same type of play minus the pratfall stunt from offensive player.

[Obstructed_View]

Literally the same EXACT thing Manu did just happend and no flagarant was called

In the Miami Indiana game?

[emanueldavidginobili]

In the Miami Indiana game?

Yeah Mahinmi did it to LeBron and it was LeBron and they didn't even call a flagrant but yeah literally the same thing.

[Obstructed_View]

And I'm sure Hubie said "I like what we're seeing here. That's just a good hard playoff foul. Lebron is one of the best that we have in the league at scoring after contact. Mahinmi has tremendous strenth."

[100%duncan]

:lol

[easjer]

Yeah, I'm sticking with my original assessment. It was a terrible, terrible call - acting job notwithstanding. That's even funny to a certain degree. Whether he should have attempted the foul or not is a separate issue. Clean foul on the wrist with no intent and no excessive force is not a flagrant foul; but there is no point in arguing over it because at this point it's a moot point. People see this differently and no amount of stomping feet is going to convince anyone otherwise.

The officiating in the second half was as abysmal as the Spurs fourth quarter offense.

[Alamode]

In his prime you put up with the sloppy plays because he could break out anytime and put up a big number but those days are so few and far between. Manu has a basketball IQ of about -12, he just can't stop himself from making bonehead plays.. Spurs win the title in 2006 if not for.. Well you know..

Yeah and Spurs DON'T win the 2005 title if not for.........Manu. Get over it already.

[dbreiden83080]

Yeah and Spurs DON'T win the 2005 title if not for.........Manu. Get over it already.

Yes back when his skills outweighed his low IQ..

[Slippy]

Not even close to a flagrant. Manu made the right decision. No easy lay-ups in play-off basketbball. Allen embilished it to the world to see. You can't blame refs, they 're only human and got sucked in.

Threadstarter confusing adrenalin, emotion and competitive fire with lack of smarts. Since he one of the most emo posters around here, he should know better.

[tp2021]

It was a playoff foul that made the refs think a little too hard. THIS IS THE PLAYOFFS. You don't give up uncontested layups at the end of the game, cutting a 2 possession game to "3 gives them the lead."

Overreaction fail. For the refs, and the OP. If Manu knew he was committing a flagrant foul, then sure... it was a retarded move.

But he didn't "know" that because that's not what he did. Maybe the best players aren't the ones who are clutch, or make their teammates better; The best players know what the refs are gonna call before it happens.