DieMrBond
07-12-2005, 09:13 PM
Just for a bit of dicussion, here is Rosens latest 'best at position' article... do you guys reckon he missed out anyone?
Rosen: All-time best shooting guards
http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/story/3737458
The job descriptions of role players cover every aspect of the game — from setting screens to boxing out, from making the pass that leads to an assist pass to filling a lane on a fast break, and so on. But every offensive set is designed to get the ball into the hands of a player whose expertise is to fill the basket.
By definition, then, shooting guards have to be able to shoot. Close behind this requirement is the ability to create their own shots. Also critical is knowing how to use screens, differentiating between good shots and bad ones, and executing plays with precision.
Being able to play acceptable defense is another necessary. What advantage would be gained by his team should a shooting guard register 25 points while his opposite number scored 25 or more?
No. 1 — MICHAEL JORDAN
This pick is a layup.
Most go-to scorers tend to coast on defense to conserve energy for their ball-time responsibilities. Jordan was the rare exception whose unyielding defense allowed him to win ball games with clutch plays at either end of the court.
Besides his transcendent talents, the X-factor in Jordan's success was his incredible competitive edge. MJ would practice with more intensity than most of his peers demonstrated during games. And if a team's superstar practiced with all his might, then the last scrub on the bench was motivated to do the same.
The most amazing single basketball play that I've ever witnessed was performed by Michael Jordan: In October 1989, when I was coaching the Rockford Lightning in the Continental Basketball Association, I happened to be at the Deerfield Multiplex for Chicago Bulls' initial training camp session of the season. Since the Bulls were Rockford's NBA "affiliate," I had dibs on every draft choice and free agent who would eventually be cut by the Bulls. The player I was looking hardest at was Matt Brust, a 6-4 tough guy signed as camp fodder out of St. John's.
Besides having incredible talent, Michael Jordan possessed intense competitiveness.
(J.D. Cuban / Getty Images)
For the first few days of any training camp, the protocol is traditional: The important veteran players cruise through the drills and scrimmages, while everybody else busts their hump from baseline to baseline. That's why, in an otherwise lukewarm scrimmage, Jordan came sashaying to the basket in a semi-break situation, casually gearing up to amuse the in-crowd with his first slam-bang dunk of the new season. But Brust, hustling like his pants were on fire, caught up with Jordan and proceeded to His Airness on his royal keister.
BAM! Jordan went down and didn't move for a few moments. Suddenly the gym was hushed as the trainers scurried onto the court. The only sound was Jerry Krause choking on one of his breakfast donuts ...
... until Jordan finally climbed to his feet, shook off the ministrations of the trainers, and motioned for the scrimmage to resume. But the fearsome look in MJ's eyes foretold a revenge that would be both devastating and creative.
On the very next sequence Jordan pilfered a careless pass and was once again headed hoopward-and there was Brust, chasing the ball and intent on a command performance.
The first hint of trouble was when Jordan slowed down somewhat to allow Brust to catch him. Then, as before, Jordan elevated to the basket, palming the ball in his right hand. This time, just as Brust launched another audacious attack on Jordan's august person, MJ made a preemptive strike, smashing his left elbow into the rookie's forehead. Then, while still levitated, Jordan switched the ball to his left hand, reached around to the far side of the rim, and shivered the entire gym with a thunderous dunk.
For Jordan, score two points and a KO.
For Brust, a mild concussion and an early retirement.
No. 2 — BILL SHARMAN
Sharman rates just behind Jordan as the best scorer-defender at his position. Renowned for his deadly one-hander, and his faultless execution of whatever plays Red Auerbach had scripted, Sharman was an incredibly gifted athlete. (He sat on the Brooklyn Dodgers' bench during the 1951 stretch run, and was also an outstanding tennis player and golfer.)
In addition to his scoring heroics, Sharman was a scrappy rebounder, a diligent passer, as well as a reliable ball-handler and caretaker.
Sharman's tenacious defense went unnoticed by most fans and the media. But among his contemporaries, his strength, quickness and sheer will-power were proverbial. In the hey days of the Cousy-Russell dynasty, it was Sharman who was entrusted with taking the win-or-lose shot, and also for defending the opponents' most explosive backcourtsman.
His world-class talent and his indomitable work ethic certainly contributed to Sharman's success, but he also paid attention to every detail and every nuance of the game. During his 11-year NBA career (that featured being named the MVP of the 1955 All-Star game, as well as four Celtic championships), Sharman's voluminous post-game notes to himself were legendary.
Moreover, he was one of the few championship-caliber players who later became successful coaches (Sharman was the NBA's Coach of the Year when his Lakers won the title in 1972). As a player, coach, general manager, and consultant (his current job with the Lakers), Sharman always was a winner.
No. 3 — SAM JONES
The scoring half of the Celtics' fabled Jones Boys, Sam's bank shots were guaranteed by the FDIC. For a designated shooter, Jones was a passable passer and rebounder, and his ambushing of the passing lanes (to say nothing of Bill Russell forever lurking in the paint) made him an effective defender. Nobody utilized screens better than S. Jones, and nobody (with the notable exception of Drazen Petrovic) had a quicker release.
From 1962-1968, Jones was Boston's dreadnaught scorer, reaching a highwater mark of 25.9 ppg in 1964-65. But Jones always saved his best shots for playoff competition — if he tallied over 20 ppg for only four regular seasons, he topped that in seven championship runs.
Jones was smart, tough, and a relentless practitioner of the Celtics' vaunted fast break--invariably ignited by a rebound and outlet pass from Russell. Everybody knows that Number Six won eleven championship rings, but guess who's second in that department. Sam Jones, with ten.
No. 4 — KOBE BRYANT
For sheer talent, only MJ can outshine Kobe Bryant. Still only 26 years old, Kobe excels at nearly every aspect of the game — creativity, shooting (especially with a game on the line), rebounding, passing, defense, rebounding, and competing. His only deficiency is his rampant narcissism, a character flaw that has had serious on- and off-court consequences.
Should Kobe ever mature to the point where he can play (and live) with an abiding sense of discipline, he might conceivably challenge Jordan for the top of the heap.
Hal Greer (15) was a clutch shot-maker on one of the best teams in NBA history.
(George Kalinsky / Getty Images)
No. 5 — HAL GREER
At 6-2, Hal Greer was an undersized shooting guard, yet his strength allowed him to play much bigger. He was a dead-eye jump shooter, a surprisingly good rebounder, an accurate passer, and an earnest defender. But it was Greer's high-powered scoring prowess whenever a game was up for grabs that set him above his peers.
During Philadelphia's awesome championship season of 1966-67, Greer was the team's second-leading regular season scorer-his 22.1 ppg was surpassed only by Wilt Chamberlain's 24.1. But come the playoffs, Greer's output of 27.7 eclipsed Wilt's point-production by 6.0 ppg. Wilt always garnered the headlines, but Hal Greer was the money man on what was arguably the best NBA team ever.
No. 6 — CLYDE DREXLER
Another multi-dimensional performer, Drexler rarely lost his composure. Gliding effortlessly through a game, Drexler could score points by the dozen, make snappy passes, and also rebound with the bigs.
If his shot was somewhat streaky, and his iffy defense had to be augmented by gambling for steals, Drexler knew how to maximize his considerable strengths and minimize his weaknesses. Drexler was also reputed to be a divisive presence in the locker room-a back-biter, who was zealous of his own shot-opportunities-but once the lights were switched on, he was the consummate team player.
No. 7 — EARL MONROE
Earl Monroe was a dynamic scorer — a whirling, spinning flash of elbows, hips, and unexpected shots. It was Earl the Pearl who made the individualistic brilliance of the inner-city black game acceptable in the NBA. Every shot, every venture into the lane, was an exercise in excitement and daring-do. Monroe-watchers could depend on his showing them something they'd never seen before during each and every game.
Sure, his passes were of the dipsy-doo variety, most of his rebounds were purely accidental, and he didn't concentrate on playing defense until Baltimore dealt him to the Knicks in 1971. But the excitement he generated easily overshadowed his shortcomings.
If Walt Frazier, his running mate in New York, was regarded with awe and profound respect by Knick partisans, Earl Monroe was beloved.
No. 8 — SIDNEY MONCRIEF
This was another do-everything guard. Although he was more of a slasher than a spot-up shooter, and his handle was sometimes problematic, Moncrief could put numbers in the book. A terrific passer and rebounder, Moncrief excelled at playing shut-down defense. Moncrief was a low-profile, crunch-time guy who seemed to peak at just the right times.
No. 9 — GEORGE GERVIN
This guy was a scoring machine. He led the NBA in scoring four times, and his unpredictable shot releases were impossible to defend. Long-distance shooting was definitely not his forte-neither was passing, rebounding or playing defense.
Granted that Gervin's game was strictly one-dimensional, and that his Spurs teams were always pretenders rather than legit contenders. But the Iceman could certainly heat up a scoreboard.
Other candidates — Reggie Miller, Dave Bing, Lou Hudson and Walter Davis.
Charley Rosen, former CBA coach, author of 12 books about hoops, the current one being A pivotal season — How the 1971-72 L.A. Lakers changed the NBA, is a frequent contributor to FOXSports.com.
Rosen: All-time best shooting guards
http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/story/3737458
The job descriptions of role players cover every aspect of the game — from setting screens to boxing out, from making the pass that leads to an assist pass to filling a lane on a fast break, and so on. But every offensive set is designed to get the ball into the hands of a player whose expertise is to fill the basket.
By definition, then, shooting guards have to be able to shoot. Close behind this requirement is the ability to create their own shots. Also critical is knowing how to use screens, differentiating between good shots and bad ones, and executing plays with precision.
Being able to play acceptable defense is another necessary. What advantage would be gained by his team should a shooting guard register 25 points while his opposite number scored 25 or more?
No. 1 — MICHAEL JORDAN
This pick is a layup.
Most go-to scorers tend to coast on defense to conserve energy for their ball-time responsibilities. Jordan was the rare exception whose unyielding defense allowed him to win ball games with clutch plays at either end of the court.
Besides his transcendent talents, the X-factor in Jordan's success was his incredible competitive edge. MJ would practice with more intensity than most of his peers demonstrated during games. And if a team's superstar practiced with all his might, then the last scrub on the bench was motivated to do the same.
The most amazing single basketball play that I've ever witnessed was performed by Michael Jordan: In October 1989, when I was coaching the Rockford Lightning in the Continental Basketball Association, I happened to be at the Deerfield Multiplex for Chicago Bulls' initial training camp session of the season. Since the Bulls were Rockford's NBA "affiliate," I had dibs on every draft choice and free agent who would eventually be cut by the Bulls. The player I was looking hardest at was Matt Brust, a 6-4 tough guy signed as camp fodder out of St. John's.
Besides having incredible talent, Michael Jordan possessed intense competitiveness.
(J.D. Cuban / Getty Images)
For the first few days of any training camp, the protocol is traditional: The important veteran players cruise through the drills and scrimmages, while everybody else busts their hump from baseline to baseline. That's why, in an otherwise lukewarm scrimmage, Jordan came sashaying to the basket in a semi-break situation, casually gearing up to amuse the in-crowd with his first slam-bang dunk of the new season. But Brust, hustling like his pants were on fire, caught up with Jordan and proceeded to His Airness on his royal keister.
BAM! Jordan went down and didn't move for a few moments. Suddenly the gym was hushed as the trainers scurried onto the court. The only sound was Jerry Krause choking on one of his breakfast donuts ...
... until Jordan finally climbed to his feet, shook off the ministrations of the trainers, and motioned for the scrimmage to resume. But the fearsome look in MJ's eyes foretold a revenge that would be both devastating and creative.
On the very next sequence Jordan pilfered a careless pass and was once again headed hoopward-and there was Brust, chasing the ball and intent on a command performance.
The first hint of trouble was when Jordan slowed down somewhat to allow Brust to catch him. Then, as before, Jordan elevated to the basket, palming the ball in his right hand. This time, just as Brust launched another audacious attack on Jordan's august person, MJ made a preemptive strike, smashing his left elbow into the rookie's forehead. Then, while still levitated, Jordan switched the ball to his left hand, reached around to the far side of the rim, and shivered the entire gym with a thunderous dunk.
For Jordan, score two points and a KO.
For Brust, a mild concussion and an early retirement.
No. 2 — BILL SHARMAN
Sharman rates just behind Jordan as the best scorer-defender at his position. Renowned for his deadly one-hander, and his faultless execution of whatever plays Red Auerbach had scripted, Sharman was an incredibly gifted athlete. (He sat on the Brooklyn Dodgers' bench during the 1951 stretch run, and was also an outstanding tennis player and golfer.)
In addition to his scoring heroics, Sharman was a scrappy rebounder, a diligent passer, as well as a reliable ball-handler and caretaker.
Sharman's tenacious defense went unnoticed by most fans and the media. But among his contemporaries, his strength, quickness and sheer will-power were proverbial. In the hey days of the Cousy-Russell dynasty, it was Sharman who was entrusted with taking the win-or-lose shot, and also for defending the opponents' most explosive backcourtsman.
His world-class talent and his indomitable work ethic certainly contributed to Sharman's success, but he also paid attention to every detail and every nuance of the game. During his 11-year NBA career (that featured being named the MVP of the 1955 All-Star game, as well as four Celtic championships), Sharman's voluminous post-game notes to himself were legendary.
Moreover, he was one of the few championship-caliber players who later became successful coaches (Sharman was the NBA's Coach of the Year when his Lakers won the title in 1972). As a player, coach, general manager, and consultant (his current job with the Lakers), Sharman always was a winner.
No. 3 — SAM JONES
The scoring half of the Celtics' fabled Jones Boys, Sam's bank shots were guaranteed by the FDIC. For a designated shooter, Jones was a passable passer and rebounder, and his ambushing of the passing lanes (to say nothing of Bill Russell forever lurking in the paint) made him an effective defender. Nobody utilized screens better than S. Jones, and nobody (with the notable exception of Drazen Petrovic) had a quicker release.
From 1962-1968, Jones was Boston's dreadnaught scorer, reaching a highwater mark of 25.9 ppg in 1964-65. But Jones always saved his best shots for playoff competition — if he tallied over 20 ppg for only four regular seasons, he topped that in seven championship runs.
Jones was smart, tough, and a relentless practitioner of the Celtics' vaunted fast break--invariably ignited by a rebound and outlet pass from Russell. Everybody knows that Number Six won eleven championship rings, but guess who's second in that department. Sam Jones, with ten.
No. 4 — KOBE BRYANT
For sheer talent, only MJ can outshine Kobe Bryant. Still only 26 years old, Kobe excels at nearly every aspect of the game — creativity, shooting (especially with a game on the line), rebounding, passing, defense, rebounding, and competing. His only deficiency is his rampant narcissism, a character flaw that has had serious on- and off-court consequences.
Should Kobe ever mature to the point where he can play (and live) with an abiding sense of discipline, he might conceivably challenge Jordan for the top of the heap.
Hal Greer (15) was a clutch shot-maker on one of the best teams in NBA history.
(George Kalinsky / Getty Images)
No. 5 — HAL GREER
At 6-2, Hal Greer was an undersized shooting guard, yet his strength allowed him to play much bigger. He was a dead-eye jump shooter, a surprisingly good rebounder, an accurate passer, and an earnest defender. But it was Greer's high-powered scoring prowess whenever a game was up for grabs that set him above his peers.
During Philadelphia's awesome championship season of 1966-67, Greer was the team's second-leading regular season scorer-his 22.1 ppg was surpassed only by Wilt Chamberlain's 24.1. But come the playoffs, Greer's output of 27.7 eclipsed Wilt's point-production by 6.0 ppg. Wilt always garnered the headlines, but Hal Greer was the money man on what was arguably the best NBA team ever.
No. 6 — CLYDE DREXLER
Another multi-dimensional performer, Drexler rarely lost his composure. Gliding effortlessly through a game, Drexler could score points by the dozen, make snappy passes, and also rebound with the bigs.
If his shot was somewhat streaky, and his iffy defense had to be augmented by gambling for steals, Drexler knew how to maximize his considerable strengths and minimize his weaknesses. Drexler was also reputed to be a divisive presence in the locker room-a back-biter, who was zealous of his own shot-opportunities-but once the lights were switched on, he was the consummate team player.
No. 7 — EARL MONROE
Earl Monroe was a dynamic scorer — a whirling, spinning flash of elbows, hips, and unexpected shots. It was Earl the Pearl who made the individualistic brilliance of the inner-city black game acceptable in the NBA. Every shot, every venture into the lane, was an exercise in excitement and daring-do. Monroe-watchers could depend on his showing them something they'd never seen before during each and every game.
Sure, his passes were of the dipsy-doo variety, most of his rebounds were purely accidental, and he didn't concentrate on playing defense until Baltimore dealt him to the Knicks in 1971. But the excitement he generated easily overshadowed his shortcomings.
If Walt Frazier, his running mate in New York, was regarded with awe and profound respect by Knick partisans, Earl Monroe was beloved.
No. 8 — SIDNEY MONCRIEF
This was another do-everything guard. Although he was more of a slasher than a spot-up shooter, and his handle was sometimes problematic, Moncrief could put numbers in the book. A terrific passer and rebounder, Moncrief excelled at playing shut-down defense. Moncrief was a low-profile, crunch-time guy who seemed to peak at just the right times.
No. 9 — GEORGE GERVIN
This guy was a scoring machine. He led the NBA in scoring four times, and his unpredictable shot releases were impossible to defend. Long-distance shooting was definitely not his forte-neither was passing, rebounding or playing defense.
Granted that Gervin's game was strictly one-dimensional, and that his Spurs teams were always pretenders rather than legit contenders. But the Iceman could certainly heat up a scoreboard.
Other candidates — Reggie Miller, Dave Bing, Lou Hudson and Walter Davis.
Charley Rosen, former CBA coach, author of 12 books about hoops, the current one being A pivotal season — How the 1971-72 L.A. Lakers changed the NBA, is a frequent contributor to FOXSports.com.