Why do people still use stuff like team PPG and opponent PPG?

[racm]

They mean nothing apart from "this team plays slow and/or can't score".

[Mal]

It`s still the stat which determines either games are won or lost.

[Spurs and Mavs fan]

They mean nothing apart from "this team plays slow and/or can't score".


And that's important.

[GSH]

They mean nothing apart from "this team plays slow and/or can't score".


They tried to replace those two things with a stat about how good their uniforms look, but that was too subjective. Then there was the season that the NBA experimented with putting the Crowd Noise Index on the stat sheet, but people immediately started demanding things like Adjusted Crowd Noise, and Crowd Noise Per 36 Minutes, and it was just too much trouble. It was finally decided that, even though it's such a useless piece of information, PPG is just too handy to get rid of. Most of us simply dismiss it.

[Obstructed_View]

Because when you subtract one from the other, you get the most important stat in basketball in determining success. Of the top 16 teams in point differential this season, 15 of them made the playoffs.

[spurraider21]

OP trying too hard

on the same note, why does the NFL still use touchdowns as a statistic, tbh

[K-State Spur]

Because when you subtract one from the other, you get the most important stat in basketball in determining success. Of the top 16 teams in point differential this season, 15 of them made the playoffs.

Using both is of value.

Using just one, and comparing it to the same one among other teams in the league - as "analysts" often do - is of little value.

[jesterbobman]

Using both and getting margin of victory is useful. Using 1, and claiming that it means that team has the best offense in the league is DUMB.

Because Jon Barry is an analyst?

[Seventyniner]

Because when you subtract one from the other, you get the most important stat in basketball in determining success. Of the top 16 teams in point differential this season, 15 of them made the playoffs.

I wonder if it might be percentages instead of absolute numbers? A team that outscores its opponent 110-100 on average has a 10% margin of victory, and so does a team that outscores its opponent 99-90 on average. We'd call the 110-100 team better due to the +10, but I wonder if it might be more equal than that?

But I agree with the OP, I'd rather see something like ORtg and DRtg than PPG scored and allowed.

[tesseractive]

Using both is of value.

Using just one, and comparing it to the same one among other teams in the league - as "analysts" often do - is of little value.
Using them both as opposed to just using the differential, also gives you an old-school version of whether teams are winning (or losing) with defense or offense.

Offensive rating and defensive rating can give you a clearer picture because they adjust for pace, but they're not understood (or understood as well) by a lot of the people who consume basketball information yet.

[PÒÓCH]

They call these ominous things statistics, Intelligent people use them for stuff and things. You need not worry much about it.

[michaelwcho]

They mean nothing apart from "this team plays slow and/or can't score".

It's called "Yay! Points!" http://wagesofwins.com/the-yay-points-thesis/

Since who has the most points win, it's natural to look at who's scoring a lot of 'em and figure they're the best players. Unfortunately, people focus way too much on it and not enough on the other (measurable) numbers, such as rebounds, assists, blocks, and steals, so they get a skewed idea of the value of particular players. Point differential is the most important team stat, but it's emphatically the differential between points for and against that is being measured, not either in isolation.

[Beaverfuzz]

Score over 93 points = beat Memphis. I think that about sums it up.

[tesseractive]

It's called "Yay! Points!" http://wagesofwins.com/the-yay-points-thesis/

Since who has the most points win, it's natural to look at who's scoring a lot of 'em and figure they're the best players. Unfortunately, people focus way too much on it and not enough on the other (measurable) numbers, such as rebounds, assists, blocks, and steals, so they get a skewed idea of the value of particular players. Point differential is the most important team stat, but it's emphatically the differential between points for and against that is being measured, not either in isolation.
"Yay! Points!" is thesis about a problem with player evaluation, not a problem with team evaluation.

When comparing two teams with a +5 point differential, if you have one team that averages 105 points a game and another team that averages 90, you have a very strong likelihood that the team dropping 105 is doing it with a comparatively efficient offense, and the team averaging 90 is doing it with a comparatively efficient defense. People were using these statistics in this way for decades before advanced stats came along, and they were pretty useful for this, even if they're not perfect.

The problem with individual points is that it doesn't capture that someone else on the team may have gotten a rebound that led to a pass from a teammate that led to a wide open shot for the player who scored. A player with 15 rebounds, 5 assists, and 5 blocks but only 5 points may be doing much more than a guy scoring 12 PPG off of open jumpers and not doing much with the other stats. Most of these direct problems evaporate by incorporating a team's entire points scored -- all the rebounds, assists, etc. that are made by the team as a whole are reflected in their point total. Differential is still much more important than total points scored, but it's not the only important thing.

[m33p0]

I wonder if it might be percentages instead of absolute numbers? A team that outscores its opponent 110-100 on average has a 10% margin of victory, and so does a team that outscores its opponent 99-90 on average. We'd call the 110-100 team better due to the +10, but I wonder if it might be more equal than that?

But I agree with the OP, I'd rather see something like ORtg and DRtg than PPG scored and allowed.
phoenix suns under mike d'antoni shoots down that argument.

[davidbowie]

nothing really matters when you think about it

[davidbowie]

like what's the point of anything really

[davidbowie]

we'll all be dead in a 100 years

[tesseractive]

phoenix suns under mike d'antoni shoots down that argument.
Why? If anything, I would think that the 7 seconds Suns are the canonical example of why point differential percentage is more telling than raw point differential, because it corrects for the fact that the scores are higher for the Suns' games.

[Seventyniner]

Why? If anything, I would think that the 7 seconds Suns are the canonical example of why point differential percentage is more telling than raw point differential, because it corrects for the fact that the scores are higher for the Suns' games.

My point exactly. The Spurs didn't average an eye-popping number of points per game in the WCF, but they put up a 109.7 ORtg (if I remember the Zach Lowe column right), which is outstanding, especially against the league's second-best defense.

[m33p0]

Why? If anything, I would think that the 7 seconds Suns are the canonical example of why point differential percentage is more telling than raw point differential, because it corrects for the fact that the scores are higher for the Suns' games.

I wonder if it might be percentages instead of absolute numbers?A team that outscores its opponent 110-100 on average has a 10% margin of victory, and so does a team that outscores its opponent 99-90 on average. We'd call the 110-100 team better due to the +10, but I wonder if it might be more equal than that?

But I agree with the OP, I'd rather see something like ORtg and DRtg than PPG scored and allowed.
i only read that part of the post. should have read the whole post.

[Obstructed_View]

Using both is of value.

Using just one, and comparing it to the same one among other teams in the league - as "analysts" often do - is of little value.

People misuse and misinterpret stats all the time to form or reinforce idiotic conclusions. See Bonner plus/minus.

[ShoogarBear]

DeAndre Jordan is the best player in basketball; he just needs to shoot more.

[eyeh8u]

we'll all be dead in a 100 years

speak for yourself , im gonna be an awesome adrienne barbeaubot