Casual Fans Criminally underrate Kawhi Leonard. Thus...

[apalisoc_9]

he will be underrated by the media to feed these fans.

I saw a poll yesterday and the result was

Parsons, Thompson, Buttler, Shumpert > Leonard

:bang

Apparently, Leonard is not on the same level defensively as shumpert and Buttler.

[BillMc]

If Leonard can make LeBron work for his points in the next series, no one will underrate him again.

[apalisoc_9]

If Leonard can make LeBron work for his points in the next series, no one will underrate him again.

I doubt it tbh. At this point Leonard over these guys should be crystal clear by now tbh, what makes you think a good game from leonard would erase that? Feed the "fans" is how the media works tbh. He will get props, but the common conssues will always be Parson, Thompson, Buttler, Shumpert > Leonard tbh. I'm sure it would change but not in the next three or four years..

Parson's the only guy i can see an argument with, but he's still not better than leonard.

[TheyCallMePro]

I'd take Parsons, Thompson and Shumpert over Leonard right now too.

Leonard isn't nearly as polished offensively as any of those guys. Remember that most of Leonard's points come from wide open corner 3's. Leonard has the benefit of playing in a system where he's afforded very little responsibility and is less prone to making mistakes.

I like Leonard, and I think he'll be a solid role player for years to come but never a star. He's simply too shy, doesn't have enough confidence with the ball in his hands, and at the end of the day, just isn't a very good shooter.

I think this teams success elevates all of our role players stock substantially. Maybe too much. Danny Green is another player who's got to be wide open to make a basket. Seriously, do you ever see Leonard or Green driving in the lane and assisting someone? Or setting a play up? Hell no. I'm sorry but you cant even evaluate Leonard with those other guys. They have so much more responsibility on their teams that it's not even a fair comparison. Until Leonard plays a more impactful role on offense as they do, comparing them is just silly.

[Juggity]

I'd take Parsons, Thompson and Shumpert over Leonard right now too.


Possibly the worst take I've read this season. Wow.

[mrjap2x]

Action speaks louder than words.

[Robz4000]

I'd take Parsons, Thompson and Shumpert over Leonard right now too.

:lol

[outmap]

Parson can't D, Thompson's ceiling is prime Kevin Martin, Shumpert is a mere athletic monkey baller.

[Man In Black]

I'd take Parsons, Thompson and Shumpert over Leonard right now too.



All these guys are fishing. And while I think Parsons and Thompson are ahead of Leonard currently, Leonard's skill set is held back by design. When this team becomes a new Big 3, Parker, Splitter, Leonard... that is when we can rate these 4 players in the same group.

[Halberto]

Klay Thompson is understandable.

[Chinook]

I actually really like Jimmy Butler. Had the Spurs kept Hill and gotten Butler, I don't think we'd have been too upset. Hill would probably have been gone, but I think Butler would have been starting here and doing a good job at it. In the very least, Butler, Parsons and Thompson have the aggression Leonard needs to show consistently to get to the next level.

[SayTown]

Don't forget one of Kawhi's greatest strengths is his rebounding, he is a better rebounder than some power forwards, and is a way better rebounder than all the other players on that list.

[barakz21]

No way I'd pick any of those guys over Kawhi. But Parsons is pretty close, imo. But the only thing that sets him close to Kawhi is the offense. His D is decent enough, and he scores enough points. But people seem to forge that he plays in Houston, where they're more focused on offense. Kawhi focuses more on D but can definitely score when he has the opportunities, remember the Bulls game? He scored points off of transition, 3s, drives. The key for Kawhi is doing it on a consistent basis imo.

[Warlord23]

These comparisons just illustrate how little the mainstream NBA fan watches the Spurs. Leaving aside the eye-test, the advanced statistics are very much in Leonard's favor:

Offense: PER is the best available metric for offense. Here's how they stack up - (R) is for regular season, (P) is for playoffs:

Leonard: 16.46 (R), 17.9 (P)
Parsons: 15.33 (R), 13.6 (P)
Butler: 15.26 (R), 14.5 (P)
Thompson: 12.7 (R), 10.2 (P)
Shumpert 11.72 (R), 14.2 (P)

Defensive Rating, (R) is for regular season and (P) is for playoffs:

Leonard: 99 (R), 97 (P)
Parsons: 108 (R), 115 (P)
Butler: 104 (R), 111 (P)
Thompson: 107 (R), 99 (P)
Shumpert: 106 (R), 97 (P)

Boiled down, Leonard is the best player by a fair margin on both sides of the floor. Thompson appears to be great on offense, but is a notoriously inefficient chucker. Shumpert and Butler are passable on defense, but Leonard is consistently better. Parsons is ridiculously overrated.

[pikkiwoki]

:cheer

http://wagesofwins.com/2013/05/30/2013-playoffs-round-2-and-round-3-part-1-the-best-players-and-the-bad-coaches/ (http://wagesofwins.com/2013/05/30/2013-playoffs-round-2-and-round-3-part-1-the-best-players-and-the-bad-coaches/)

http://i.imgur.com/7POZeKe.png

http://i.imgur.com/30dbrcx.png

[m33p0]

apparently, patty mills is a star and dejuan blair is a superstar.

:wakeup

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[timtonymanu]

Possibly the worst take I've read this season. Wow.

He's already making quite the shitty reputation for himself. You should see his top 10 role players on det other thread.

[SsKSpurs21]

Leonard plays within a system that limits his possibilities to take over a game. he is sometimes the 4th option while parsons is often the second options behind harden. easier to be flashy when you have the green light. leonard does the most with the opportunity given and makes an impact on both ends of the floor.

[tesseractive]

Klay Thompson is understandable.
Except for the part where Kawhi just got finished completely erasing him out of a playoff series.

[Southwest Texas Fan]

I'd take Parsons, Thompson and Shumpert over Leonard right now too.

Leonard isn't nearly as polished offensively as any of those guys. Remember that most of Leonard's points come from wide open corner 3's. Leonard has the benefit of playing in a system where he's afforded very little responsibility and is less prone to making mistakes.
I like Leonard, and I think he'll be a solid role player for years to come but never a star. He's simply too shy, doesn't have enough confidence with the ball in his hands, and at the end of the day, just isn't a very good shooter.

I think this teams success elevates all of our role players stock substantially. Maybe too much. Danny Green is another player who's got to be wide open to make a basket. Seriously, do you ever see Leonard or Green driving in the lane and assisting someone? Or setting a play up? Hell no. I'm sorry but you cant even evaluate Leonard with those other guys. They have so much more responsibility on their teams that it's not even a fair comparison. Until Leonard plays a more impactful role on offense as they do, comparing them is just silly.

:lol:lol

[MR-Clutch]

Anyone that would not take Kawhi over any of those guys knows nothing about basketball. /thread

[mrjap2x]

Anyone that would not take Kawhi over any of those guys knows nothing about basketball. /thread
Obviously spurs fans know what kawhi's worth is, but when you say casual most of them don't watch a lot and mostly refer to basic stats like PRASB.

[sexinthatsx]

Obviously spurs fans know what kawhi's worth is, but when you say casual most of them don't watch a lot and mostly refer to basic stats like PRASB.

What he said. Kawhi's stats haven't been eye-popping... outside of the steal category, his rebounding isn't consistent and his scoring hasn't been consistent as well. However, Spurs fans know that all those rebounds that he gets are during some of the most crucial points in the game. The same can't be said of the other players.

[sexinthatsx]

Anyone that would not take Kawhi over any of those guys knows nothing about basketball. /thread

I would possibly pick Chandler Parsons over Kawhi. However, because the Spurs are the most efficient with a defending SF to fill spot of a retired Bruce Bowen, the Spurs were better off picking Kawhi. Offensively, I'd pick Chandler Parsons over anyone else 10 out of 10 times. The other poster in this thread who compared him to Kevin Martin is dead wrong, Kevin Martin can't rebound for beans; Chandler Parsons can.

[MR-Clutch]

At 21 years of age, Leonard displays the mental toughness of a veteran.Leonard has the composure and competitive fire that separate the good from the great players, and makes winning plays. He is already one of the best defenders in the league and, plays a large role in making the Spurs' defense elite. Without Leonard, it's doubtful the Spurs would be in the finals right now.Throughout the his career, he has shown flashes of all-star potential on the offensive end of the ball. Kawhi currently has the 28th highest P.E.R in the playoffs, ahead of players like Wade, Bosh, Paul George, and Parsons who ranks at 81st. Parson's is 3 years older than Kawhi. Parsons outscored Leonard by 1.7 points per 36 minutes, with 1.8 more shots per game than Leonard. I like Parsons, but Kawhi leads him in almost every advanced stat and is the way better defender.Ask yourself this question: If you have only those options available to start a franchise with, who are you taking?

[hater]

:lol clay thompson :lol

[Spur|n|Austin]

I'd take Parsons, Thompson and Shumpert over Leonard right now too.

Leonard isn't nearly as polished offensively as any of those guys. Remember that most of Leonard's points come from wide open corner 3's. Leonard has the benefit of playing in a system where he's afforded very little responsibility and is less prone to making mistakes.

I like Leonard, and I think he'll be a solid role player for years to come but never a star. He's simply too shy, doesn't have enough confidence with the ball in his hands, and at the end of the day, just isn't a very good shooter.

I think this teams success elevates all of our role players stock substantially. Maybe too much. Danny Green is another player who's got to be wide open to make a basket. Seriously, do you ever see Leonard or Green driving in the lane and assisting someone? Or setting a play up? Hell no. I'm sorry but you cant even evaluate Leonard with those other guys. They have so much more responsibility on their teams that it's not even a fair comparison. Until Leonard plays a more impactful role on offense as they do, comparing them is just silly.


You lost me after the first sentence.

[racm]

Tbh, would the national media love Leonard more if:

1. he got more shots (a la Klay Thompson, dude has license to chuck)
2. he played heavy minutes in the fastest-paced team in the league (a la Chandler Parsons, who averages ~36 mpg and plays on the 1st in pace Rockets)
3. he played in a big market (a la Iman Shumpert or Jimmy Butler)?

And the guy makes Tim Duncan look like William Shatner demeanor-wise.

[ffadicted]

I'd take Parsons, Thompson and Shumpert over Leonard right now too.

:lmao

[Allan Rowe vs Wade]

When kawhi learns how to handle the ball he'll get more respect. No matter how good at defense he is, he gets his points from steals and dunks, catch and shoot jumpers and an occasional post up move. Until he can faceup, take someone off the dribble and create his shot with any consistency, he'll never be considered anything more than a young Bruce Bowen replacement.

Which is fine but his game will always be limited

[racm]

When kawhi learns how to handle the ball he'll get more respect. No matter how good at defense he is, he gets his points from steals and dunks, catch and shoot jumpers and an occasional post up move. Until he can faceup, take someone off the dribble and create his shot with any consistency, he'll never be considered anything more than a young Bruce Bowen replacement.

Which is fine but his game will always be limited

I think the problem isn't whether he can do those - had PATFO not deliberately called it a day for him after two games in summer league I think he'd showcase more - but whether he'll be allowed to do those.

Remember that Chicago game where the Big 3 all sat out and he scored 26? I recall him pulling up for midrange shots against Chicago.

As long as Tony and Tim are on the team he'll be third option at best.

[cjw]

Klay Thompson is understandable.

What did the stats look like when Thompson and Leonard went head-to-head with each other? Not good for Thompson. For that matter, Deng looked like Luke Walton going up against Kawhi.

[pikkiwoki]

When kawhi learns how to handle the ball he'll get more respect. No matter how good at defense he is, he gets his points from steals and dunks, catch and shoot jumpers and an occasional post up move. Until he can faceup, take someone off the dribble and create his shot with any consistency, he'll never be considered anything more than a young Bruce Bowen replacement.

Which is fine but his game will always be limited

The problem is that players normally learn to handle the ball starting from childhood, not when they get to the NBA. By now, his handles are what they will probably always be, for the rest of his career. Maybe I'm wrong, but I can't think of a player that wasn't a threat off the dribble entering the league that later turned himself into a threat off the dribble. Unlike shooting which can be improved at this stage, ball handling has to be instilled early in life.

[superbigtime]

I'd take Parsons, Thompson and Shumpert over Leonard right now too.

Leonard isn't nearly as polished offensively as any of those guys. Remember that most of Leonard's points come from wide open corner 3's. Leonard has the benefit of playing in a system where he's afforded very little responsibility and is less prone to making mistakes.

I like Leonard, and I think he'll be a solid role player for years to come but never a star. He's simply too shy, doesn't have enough confidence with the ball in his hands, and at the end of the day, just isn't a very good shooter.

I think this teams success elevates all of our role players stock substantially. Maybe too much. Danny Green is another player who's got to be wide open to make a basket. Seriously, do you ever see Leonard or Green driving in the lane and assisting someone? Or setting a play up? Hell no. I'm sorry but you cant even evaluate Leonard with those other guys. They have so much more responsibility on their teams that it's not even a fair comparison. Until Leonard plays a more impactful role on offense as they do, comparing them is just silly.


Um no.

[moisaenz]

This just shows how defense is underrated in this league. Parsons and Thompson definitely have better shooting form than Leonard, but they are not as close to being a perimeter defender like Kawhi. Besides Kawhi produces as much as Parsons and Thompson offensively while being at times the fourth option.

Although I do think that saying he will be star is too soon to say, but he will be more than a role player.