Average US Household far from regaining its wealth

[InRareForm]

http://www.businessweek.com/ap/2013-05-30/average-us-household-far-from-regaining-its-wealth

[TeyshaBlue]

A companion piece to the above.
http://money.usnews.com/money/personal-finance/articles/2012/10/16/decline-of-the-middle-class-behind-the-numbers



Both illustrate the movement of wealth upwards and not outwards. I know, conventional wisdom dictates that a contemporary conservative should champion this movement. But as a fiscal conservative, I find it intolerable. In the usnews link, the point that seemed to be driven home to me was the notion that the middle class has retracted to the point that, as a class, the single active delineator between poverty and the middle class is: the middle class can barely sustain debt.

[CosmicCowboy]

I'm actually surprised at the average net worth ($539,500)

I thought it would be lower than that.

[boutons_deux]

As the Repugs prepare to cut SNAP, etc in the new farm bill, which cutting is only positive compared to the much worse cutting in Ryan/Repug "official" budgeting, a look at SNAP

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2012/01/07/opinion/07blow-grx/07blow-grx-popup.gif

http://www.nytimes.com/imagepages/2012/01/07/opinion/07blow-grx.html?ref=opinion

[boutons_deux]

Actual US Poverty Twice Official FigureThe official poverty statistic comes from a measure that was created in the mid--well, early 1960s. And it was really put together quickly, and it was kind of considered a placeholder, just 'cause the federal government wanted to have some way to measure poverty and basically took a very low-cost food plan and just multiplied it by three and decided that that was what would account for what a family would need just to be at a poverty-level standard of living. So that has been the measure over all this time, so about 50 years now.

But this official count has been criticized widely by, you know, many poverty experts. And in the mid 1990s, the National Academy of Sciences put together a panel of poverty experts to take a look, take a real close look at this measure and figure out what's wrong with it and how do we improve it. Based on this panel, there were a lot a lot of recommendations. The panel itself said, we know that the official count is wrong and we know that we need to replace it.

Now, two decades later, after that, about 2011, the U.S. Census Bureau, which publishes the official count, came up with a new measure, called the supplemental poverty measure, as a way to correct for the official count. And so, unfortunately, I've taken a look at this measure, and it doesn't look--in terms of the number of people who are--count as poor, it doesn't look a whole lot different than the official count. So, like you said, about 15 percent of the American public is considered poor under the official count. With this new measure, it's only 16 percent.

Now, when I've looked at this measure, I've tried to think about, well, what would people reasonably consider to be poor. And I think it's pretty reasonable to describe being poor as somebody who can't meet their basic needs--food, shelter, their necessary medical care, that sort of thing. And if you actually tally up what the costs are for those things and see what the incomes actually would look like just to meet those basic needs, you're looking at something that's more on the order of two times the official poverty line. So I think that a much more accurate poverty line would be something on the order of double what the official poverty line is. And that would get us to a number of one in three Americans being considered poor as opposed to the current official statistic of 15 percent.

http://truth-out.org/news/item/16693-actual-us-poverty-twice-official-figure

[boutons_deux]

Suburbs and the New Geography of PovertyBut a new book, Confronting Suburban Poverty in America, by Elizabeth Kneebone and Alan Berube, flips this equation, suggesting poverty is now concentrated in America's suburbs. Today, while a third of America's poorest live in suburban areas, social service infrastructures (http://confrontingsuburbanpoverty.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/Brookings_Toolkit_Executive-Summary.pdf)haven't adjusted to poverty's new geography.


During the 2000s, for the first time, the number of poor people in major metropolitan suburbs surpassed the number in cities. Between 2000 and 2011, the poor population in suburbs grew by 64 percent—more than twice the rate of growth in cities (29 percent). (http://confrontingsuburbanpoverty.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/Brookings_Toolkit_Executive-Summary.pdf)By 2011, almost 16.4 million residents in suburbia lived below the poverty line, outstripping the poor population in cities by almost 3 million people.

According to the book, the areas with the highest increase in suburban poverty over the last decade are (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/05/20/suburban-poverty-america_n_3306359.html) Cape Coral, Fla.; Grand Rapids, Mich.; Greensboro-High Point, N.C.; Colorado Springs, Colo. and Atlanta, Georgia.

Why did this happen? Kneebone and Berube point to three main factors: the decline of middle class jobs in major cities particularly in the midwest, and the spread of office and industrial parks on the outskirts of major cities; the decline of older housing stock in cities and the increased use of housing vouchers in the suburbs; and the way that immigrants, seeking lower rents and more easily accessible jobs, are increasingly choosing suburban sprawl over major cities.

Too often, though, low-income people in the suburbs can't find jobs. Or get to the jobs that do exist. As Kneebone and Berube note: "limited or absent public transit in many suburban communities can make it more complicated for low-income suburban workers to overcome the jobs mismatch, especially if they are unable to afford and maintain a reliable car."

http://www.demos.org/blog/suburbs-and-new-geography-poverty

[Sportcamper]

I'm actually surprised at the average net worth ($539,500) I thought it would be lower than that.

No way is that number correct...The average household does not have $539,500 in assets...:lol

[Th'Pusher]

No way is that number correct...The average household does not have $539,500 in assets...:lol
It's an average. You have a top fraction of a percentile with the lion's share of the wealth that drags that number up. They are not saying the average person has that net worth.

[Big Empty]

As the Repugs prepare to cut SNAP, etc in the new farm bill, which cutting is only positive compared to the much worse cutting in Ryan/Repug "official" budgeting, a look at SNAP

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2012/01/07/opinion/07blow-grx/07blow-grx-popup.gif

http://www.nytimes.com/imagepages/2012/01/07/opinion/07blow-grx.html?ref=opinion
Wait a mintue, mexicans arnt the leading peeps on food stamps??

[TeyshaBlue]

I'm actually surprised at the average net worth ($539,500)

I thought it would be lower than that.

I would bet that functionally, it's much lower.
I think that's a fair illustrator of the upward movement of wealth. As fewer households gain, the avg net worth, as a viable measurment, becomes skewed.


*edit* Pusher beat me to it.:lol

[CosmicCowboy]

It's an average. You have a top fraction of a percentile with the lion's share of the wealth that drags that number up. They are not saying the average person has that net worth.

a direct quote from the article...


The average household had a net worth of $539,500 at the end of last year, according to a separate paper the St. Louis Fed released Thursday.

[Sportcamper]

It's an average. You have a top fraction of a percentile with the lion's share of the wealth that drags that number up. They are not saying the average person has that net worth.

OK I buy that...The super wealthy Warren, Gates, Turner, really mess up the curve...
I know people that owe 500,000...But very few with assets that high:lol
I found this from CNN...It is more reasonable but I think their numbers are even inflated...

CNN Net Worth Calculator (Age, Income)
The easiest way to see how you stack up is by using CNN Money’s Net Worth calculator. I don’t know how fresh the data is, they only cite Nielsen Claritas as their source (with no date), but it’s good enough for our entertainment purposes. They offer two median net worth charts, one based on your income and one based on your age (the two charts are independent).
Age:
• < 25: $1,475
• 25 – 34: $8,525
• 35 – 44: $51,575
• 45 – 54: $98,350
• 55 – 64: $180,125
• 65+: $232,000
Income:
• < $25K: $1,250
• $25K – $49K: $34,375
• $50K – $74K: $168,500
• $75K – $99K: $301,475
• $100K – $124K: $301,475
• $125K – $149K: $644,100
• $150K+: $1,122,900


http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/average-net-worth-of-an-american-family.html

[boutons_deux]

"In 2010 median net worth in the U.S. hit its lowest point since 1969 at $57,000 (http://appam.confex.com/appam/2012/webprogram/Paper2134.html)"

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/11/26/median-net-worth-2010_n_2193764.html

There is no "automatic correction" to the American-dream-killing huge increase in income/wealth inequality. Ineqality results from 35+ years of policy decisions, and only policy decisions can provide a remedy.

The 1% are the true takers, who pay the media like Fox and VRWC stink tanks to spew Orwellian propaganda that Bishop Gecko's 47% are the takers/moochers/frauds/cheats/non-workers.

[TeyshaBlue]

a direct quote from the article...

I think that's just a lazy conflagrant with average net worth.

[clambake]

conglagrant??????

speak english, mother fucker!!!!!!

[TeyshaBlue]

conglagrant? WTF? Did Creepn hijack my login again?

[clambake]

conglagrant? WTF? Did Creepn hijack my login again?

jack???? log?????

pervert.

[TeyshaBlue]

Seek help.

[clambake]

Seek help.

i got my glock 23 and my bible. what else does one need?

[TeyshaBlue]

You know....93******

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

I'm actually surprised at the average net worth ($539,500)

I thought it would be lower than that.

Average net worth is pretty meaningless it's median net worth that matters.

Put Warren Buffet and 40,000 homeless people in a stadium. The "average" person in that stadium is a millionaire.

[ElNono]

a direct quote from the article...

There's nothing wrong with the article, other than the number isn't really meaningful, because wealth isn't spread evenly.

As many people have pointed out already, you put one billionaire along with a thousand homeless, and the 'average' net worth is a million bucks per person...

[Seventyniner]

http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/average-net-worth-of-an-american-family.html

A quote from that article:


Across all groups, the 2007 median net worth was $120,300 and the mean was $556,300 (guys like Bill Gates and Warren Buffett really mess things up).

So yes, the ~half million number is the mean, and the median was around $120k.

[Wild Cobra]

I laugh any time you all pull a "poverty thread." they always turn into rich bashing, never address root issues, and even the way we define poverty is fucked up.

When someone is classed as having poverty, but has cable TV, DVD or blueray, big screen TV's etc...

Really now.

Travel the world if you want to see real poverty. We have the richest poor people in the world. Our poor people are better off then the middle-class of some 1st world nations

[ElNono]

I traveled the world... not sure what that has to do with Americans recouping their wealth post-crisis, tbh...

[Wild Cobra]

I traveled the world... not sure what that has to do with Americans recouping their wealth post-crisis, tbh...

My point was that what we call poverty, isn't.

[Nbadan]

Our poor people are better off then the middle-class of some 1st world nations

Other poor people are worse off than some of the lower class nations....we're the God damn United States of America....we have wealth and a stable middle class...oh wait, that's Mexico....

[CavsSuperFan]

Pre-Sure 500k may be average for people who read business weekly....

[The Reckoning]

stats 101 use median to nullify outliers

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

stats 101 use median to nullify outliers

stats 101 is more than most Americans have in terms of understanding statistics :lol

Comparing median income to average income over time is actually rather indicative of wealth in this country.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/rf/image_606w/WashingtonPost/Content/Blogs/ezra-klein/StandingArt/averagemedianwage.jpg?uuid=6wdYuvsrEeCg_hVJzCzPqA

In the last 20 or so years the dip in median income/mean income shows how income at the top is increasing with respect to the average American income, thereby causing a bigger gap. And that's just since the late 1980s, I'd love to see that graph starting 20 years earlier.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

I laugh any time you all pull a "poverty thread." they always turn into rich bashing, never address root issues, and even the way we define poverty is fucked up.

When someone is classed as having poverty, but has cable TV, DVD or blueray, big screen TV's etc...

Really now.

Travel the world if you want to see real poverty. We have the richest poor people in the world. Our poor people are better off then the middle-class of some 1st world nations
I'm anxious to hear what 1st world nations have a middle class worse off than our poor class.

I doubt the median net worth in this country is even the 57k figure boutons used if all things (credit card debt, car loans, etc.) are factored in. Somewhere between 75-80% of this country lives paycheck to paycheck and the bottom 45-50% of the country either make just enough to meet basic needs or don't make enough to meet basic needs.

The Walton family is already worth more than the bottom 40% of this country, it's only a matter of time before we return to 1910 where the top 1% control the wealth, the next 10-15% get their bread crumbs and still live comfortably, while the bottom 80-85% has absolutely nothing.

[ElNono]

My point was that what we call poverty, isn't.

We're not discussing worldwide poverty, we're discussing wealth in America.

But I guess I'm glad you got that out of your chest :lol

[Wild Cobra]

We're not discussing worldwide poverty, we're discussing wealth in America.

But I guess I'm glad you got that out of your chest :lol
Well, tell that to Shazbot.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

I'm anxious to hear what 1st world nations have a middle class worse off than our poor class.

[ElNono]

Well, tell that to Shazbot.

I haven't seen him post anything about poverty outside of America in this thread... link?

That the poor in Kenya is probably worse off than the poor in America doesn't do anything for the poor in America. The odds that the guy that's struggling to pay the bills and can't get a job is thinking "hey, at least I'm not in Kenya!" is probably bordering on 0%.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

I haven't seen him post anything about poverty outside of America in this thread... link?

That the poor in Kenya is probably worse off than the poor in America doesn't do anything for the poor in America. The odds that the guy that's struggling to pay the bills and can't get a job is thinking "hey, at least I'm not in Kenya!" is probably bordering on 0%.

The odds that conservatives are saying to that guy, "Hey! At least you're not in Kenya!" is probably bordering on 100% though :lol

[ElNono]

The odds that conservatives are saying to that guy, "Hey! At least you're not in Kenya!" is probably bordering on 100% though :lol

Cobra is a libertarian... don't get it wrong... :lol

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

Cobra is a libertarian... don't get it wrong... :lol

I thought he's a "Conservative Libertarian" whatever the fuck that means :lol

[boutons_deux]

WC thinks if an American is living better than an couple-dollars/day African or Chinese peasant, the American isn't poor.

Just like he said Americans need to accept lower wages to compete with East Asians.

[BradLohaus]

It's the collapse of home prices.

[boutons_deux]

It's the collapse of home prices.

It's the stagnation of household income since 1980, the disappearance of well paying, middle class jobs, which is tied to the VRWC busting unions going back to St Ronnie busting the air traffic controllers

[Agloco]

Took a while to flesh out median vs mean tbh.

:tu to DoK

:td to WC

per par.

[Wild Cobra]

Took a while to flesh out median vs mean tbh.

:tu to DoK

:td to WC

per par.
Your personal bias is noted. The reason for the thumbs down is???

[Agloco]

Your personal bias is noted. The reason for the thumbs down is???

Your interjection of worldwide poverty as a barometer for assessing the financial health of a median US household. This has been pointed out already though. The only question now is how many people will have to point out that fact before you acknowledge it.

[Wild Cobra]

Your interjection of worldwide poverty as a barometer for assessing the financial health of a median US household. This has been pointed out already though. The only question now is how many people will have to point out that fact before you acknowledge it.
I am pointing out that poverty is the wrong term in Boutons post.

It really annoys the hell out of me that someone, who is apparently smart and educated, can be so closed minded. I understand the losers here doing it, but you?

How many times have I pointed out that one is ignorant and unethical when they assume and attack instead of ask for clarification?

[TDMVPDPOY]

lol i dont buy that shit the avg household income is 57k, let alone assets worth 500k...not many ppl own a home outright anyway

claiming something the bank owns lol...fake ass statistics

[Wild Cobra]

-nv-

[boutons_deux]

lol i dont buy that shit the avg household income is 57k, let alone assets worth 500k...not many ppl own a home outright anyway

claiming something the bank owns lol...fake ass statistics

see above "average vs median".

USA is VERY WEALTHY but it's extremely unequally held.

eg, 10% of American's own 90% of stocks, avg CEO makes 400+ times the avg salary, etc, etc, etc.

[johnsmith]

How many times have I pointed out that one is ignorant and unethical when they assume and attack instead of ask for clarification?

Hey dickhead, the fact that you have needed to point that out so many times should tell you what a fucking idiot you are.

No one else has trouble "clarifying" on here, ya know why? Because its the fucking Internet and everyone else thinks before they type!!!!

Lol, you're dumb as shit.

[Wild Cobra]

Hey dickhead, the fact that you have needed to point that out so many times should tell you what a fucking idiot you are.

No one else has trouble "clarifying" on here, ya know why? Because its the fucking Internet and everyone else thinks before they type!!!!

Lol, you're dumb as shit.
Says one of the average polititical alliance of these forums.

No. It's you guys. Either so stupid that you don't want to ask for clarification, or so unethical that you spin a persons view purposely.

[Wild Cobra]

see above "average vs median".

USA is VERY WEALTHY but it's extremely unequally held.

eg, 10% of American's own 90% of stocks, avg CEO makes 400+ times the avg salary, etc, etc, etc.
No, we are not a healthy nation. It isn't the imequity that's a problem, it's the reason for the inequity.

Middle class jobs are being outsourced. It is because it is cheaper to produce and ship than make them here. It all has to do with regulations and taxation. Everything you libtards want to do that hurts the corporations is why they buy from overseas sources.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

:'( those poor corporations :'(

[Rogue]

greed is a natural instinct that every human is born with imho, it drives us to pursue profit and wealth. it can be beneficial to the growth of economy within a certain limit, but when it goes beyond the limit, it'll start to make opposite effects. if you were a billionaire owning a oligarchy that monopolizes an entire industry in the US (or even in the world), even though you know it's no good thing to the economic health, would you sell off your company for the good of the economy? no, you will continue to extort the remaining 10% from the 80-90% americans. it'll finally reach a point where the workers have no option but to fight back (like the October Revolution) and you'll lose everything, but you're still gonna enjoy your wealth sucking the working class's blood as long as you can