Ginobili: "I'm not planning on retiring"

[spurraider21]

Spurs guard Manu Ginobili’s contract expires at the end of the season. He will be 36 years old next month. Numbers-wise, he is coming off one of the least productive seasons of his NBA career. He is shooting 38.3 percent in the playoffs.
Put all of the above together, and it is natural to ask: Win or lose, could the upcoming NBA Finals mark the last ride for one of the most beloved players in the Spurs history?
Ginobili answered in no uncertain terms Friday.
“I’m not planning on retiring,” Ginobili told the Express-News.

full article here (http://blog.mysanantonio.com/spursnation/2013/05/31/ginobili-im-not-planning-on-retiring/)

FWIW, upon the report, rotoworld.com says this about Ginobili's future.

The Spurs probably want Manu back for one more year, but he's going to take a massive pay cut off the $14.1 million he earned in 2012-13. A veteran's minimum deal would be fair.

:lol Yes, he'll slash his salary, but for the vets min? Please. That would put his cap figure under 1.4 million. Heck, if it happens, I'll be happy as anybody, but I'm expecting something like 2 years 9 million with the 2nd year being a player option. Basically what Boris got last year. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if he got more than that since it will be such a short term contract it won't be some albatross weighing us down

[baseline bum]

Manu's not signing for the veteran minimum. :lol

2 years, $9 million (like you said) would be nice, but I think he'll get somewhere in the neighborhood of 2 years, $13 million.

[DAF86]

No way the most popular player in the team signs for the veteran minimum.

[spurraider21]

:lol rotoworld

yeah, i added that point for humor. while rotoworld is pretty solid as far as bringing up to date news, their own takes they give (ironically, written in blue font) can often be pretty shitty.
although to be fair its hilarious when they go ham on kendrick perkins

[Chinook]

A vet-min deal would only count $884k if it's a one-year deal. He'd get $1.4 Million, but the league would pay the balance.

I don't think that's very likely, but the Spurs' cap situation would be completely different then. I'd want a $13M/2 deal with the second year fully non-guaranteed, but with a no-trade clause attached.

[Richie]

$13m/2yr would be too much in terms of what he actually produces on the court. As a sentimental contract as a thank you for his years of service I would understand it, but he hasn't played like a $7m player IMO

[spurraider21]

$13m/2yr would be too much in terms of what he actually produces on the court. As a sentimental contract as a thank you for his years of service I would understand it, but he hasn't played like a $7m player IMO
I agree. My pitch was something like $9m/2yr but as I said, I wouldn't be surprised if he gets more. His durability has to come into consideration as well. He's missed 22 games this year and 32 last season, while only playing 23 minutes per game these past 2 years. I fully understand his value to the team, but these things are also important when gauging monetary value in a salary cap league.

[Chinook]

There're are two be factors in determining his salary. The first is the amount of money the team needs to carry out their plans. Sort of like with Duncan, I imagine Ginobili will agree to take whatever is left after the Spurs re-sign and acquire the players they wish to. Before anyone mentions cap holds, I understand. But everyone can agree to deals before actually signing them.

The second factor is how long Ginobili is likely to play. If he definitely feels he can player two years, then a smaller deal that's fully guaranteed would make sense. If he may only play next season, then a slightly bigger, not-fully guaranteed deal could be a nice trade chip if Ginobili retires. Giving him a no-trade clause would allow him to finish his career in San Antonio, avoiding a Pierce situation.

[spurraider21]

There're are two be factors in determining his salary. The first is the amount of money the team needs to carry out their plans. Sort of like with Duncan, I imagine Ginobili will agree to take whatever is left after the Spurs re-sign and acquire the players they wish to. Before anyone mentions cap holds, I understand. But everyone can agree to deals before actually signing them.

The second factor is how long Ginobili is likely to play. If he definitely feels he can player two years, then a smaller deal that's fully guaranteed would make sense. If he may only play next season, then a slightly bigger, not-fully guaranteed deal could be a nice trade chip if Ginobili retires. Giving him a no-trade clause would allow him to finish his career in San Antonio, avoiding a Pierce situation.

I think there are too many variables to have Ginobili sit and wait. It depends largely on what kind of offers Tiago is going to receive. Can we afford to sit around and wait with that cap hold while free agency begins (and we are likely to have cap room). Are free agents going to "agree to terms" and then sit and wait while we resolve the Manu situation, while in the meantime other teams are still giving them calls and offering them contracts? I don't think this situation is likely to play out. Last year we were right up against the cap, so Duncan signing wasn't under any time pressure. We knew full well we wouldn't be players in free agency. That might not be the same this year, especially if we get outbid for Tiago

[Knoxxx]

Manu will retire a Spur and the franchise will make sure that happens.

With regard to upping his level of play:

a) Drive to the basket more
b) Cut down the "boneheaded" turnovers

I think if he can do those two things, his value is a no-brainer and easily justifies $5 million per.

[DesignatedT]

Nobody should want him to retire. 2 years 10-14 million would still be a great contract for him.

[hater]

I would not mind a TMac type role for Manu next year

[SanDiegoSpursFan]

I don't know if you guys saw J.R. in the playoffs this year (or any other year), but I'm very happy that the Spurs have Manu as their 6th man.

[Chinook]

I think there are too many variables to have Ginobili sit and wait. It depends largely on what kind of offers Tiago is going to receive. Can we afford to sit around and wait with that cap hold while free agency begins (and we are likely to have cap room). Are free agents going to "agree to terms" and then sit and wait while we resolve the Manu situation, while in the meantime other teams are still giving them calls and offering them contracts? I don't think this situation is likely to play out. Last year we were right up against the cap, so Duncan signing wasn't under any time pressure. We knew full well we wouldn't be players in free agency. That might not be the same this year, especially if we get outbid for Tiago

The Spurs have about 10 days when they can talk to free agents without worrying about someone taking Splitter. So there is plenty of time to set everything up without being in the rush you fear will happen. If the Spurs' plan to Ginobili is "We'll try to land some players, then keep Splitter, then give you the rest," then I think it could be tricky to have a contract set up. But more likely, the Spurs will say, "We plan to target X and Y. This is what we're going to offer them. That leaves this much for you. Does that sound good?", probably before the draft even begins. The Spurs aren't the type of team to get into a bidding war, so they'll pretty much have the finances of each scenario mapped out. If the Spurs fail to nab any of their targets, I imagine Ginobili will get a bigger deal, but that should affect anything at that point.

I'm one who doesn't want the Spurs to go under the cap. I think they should use Bonner as a trade piece, re-sign Splitter and Ginobili for whatever they want, then use the MLE to bring over Bertans and sign a vet. So in my mind, none of these cap concerns really matter. But smart teams know how to use the cap rules to their advantage, unlike the Pacers and Bulls who messed up their roster or cap situations by doing transactions in the wrong order.

[Mouth is Bleeding]

Stats like ppg and fg% are pretty much meaningless. If people actually bothered to look deeper the best indicators still suggest Manu is a top player in the league. Even this relative down year, and if you give him the benefit of including last season, well then he is still elite.

RAPM is is heralded as the best stat by smart NBA followers. It's so good that the guy doing it has now been picked up by an NBA team, hence he has unfortunately removed his 12-13 ratings but before injuries this season (and year after year before that) Manu was a well established top 10 player in the league looking at RAPM (http://stats-for-the-nba.appspot.com/).

His PER is still also among the best shooting guards in the league. Even this struggling season. His Simple rating (http://www.82games.com/index.htm) of 10.3 lead the team last season and 6.2 this season is still behind only Tim and Tony.

[SA210]

When Manu is on, he is the best player on the team bc of what he can do all around for the team, period. He isn't finished yet.

[ducks]

he is not as popular with his suckage play as before

[Darkwaters]

I would not mind a TMac type role for Manu next year

You want him to serve as a glorified human victory cigar and only be seen when hes bear hugging Timmy?

[ducks]

When Manu is on, he is the best player on the team bc of what he can do all around for the team, period. He isn't finished yet. you are not telling the truth
tp and duncan if on if manu is on are way better then manu now

[SA210]

you are not telling the truth
tp and duncan if on if manu is on are way better then manu now

*sigh*

[KaiRMD1]

Doubt he gets the vet minimum, he's Manu Ginobili

[Budkin]

Always loved Manu and always will despite his erratic play. I'd love to be able to see him play for 2 more years. If the corpse of DFish can do it, Manu certainly can.

[ducks]

Always loved Manu and always will despite his erratic play. I'd love to be able to see him play for 2 more years. If the corpse of DFish can do it, Manu certainly can.

dude shows up on gmae in a playoff series
other plays can do that and are cheaper

[Mugen]

:lol Vet minimum

RJ is getting 11mil next season to hand out towels and gatorades. Manu is easily worth 2yr/13-14milion.

[Bruno]

Considering his age, injuries and level of play, $6M per year sounds fair for Ginobili.

Now, if Manu is ready to take a big paycut to help Spurs going after the best free agents, the room exception would be the way to go. It would pay him $2.7M per year over 2 years.

Ginobili taking the room exception would even allow Spurs to go after Dwight Howard.

[mrjap2x]

Question about restricted free agency, for example one team offers tiago a max contract is it mandatory for him to sign it?

[Budkin]

dude shows up on gmae in a playoff series
other plays can do that and are cheaper

Manu gets a pass for life for what he's done for the Spurs.

[TheyCallMePro]

This shouldn't be breaking news....I heard in an interview with Manu months ago that he wanted to keep playing after this year. He said then that if for some reason the Spurs didn't want him back, then he would consider other options, even perhaps playing overseas.

I don't know if we can cheap-change Manu either. A lot of you still underrate him. Were in the finals for god's sake! I could see a contender like Miami, New York, the Clippers, or some other team going after him this summer. And if they offer him millions more than we'll pay him, and they really want him, then anything could happen.

[Chinook]

Question about restricted free agency, for example one team offers tiago a max contract is it mandatory for him to sign it?

No. He has to agree to sign an offer sheet just he would a normal contract.

[baseline bum]

I would not mind a TMac type role for Manu next year

Well, the username fits the take. :lol

[baseline bum]

I'd absolutely want Manu back on a contract like 2 years, $13 million. If he's expecting 2 years, $20 million or something along those lines I'd probably have to pass, but I doubt he'll ask for that kind of money.

[slick'81]

Considering his age, injuries and level of play, $6M per year sounds fair for Ginobili.

Now, if Manu is ready to take a big paycut to help Spurs going after the best free agents, the room exception would be the way to go. It would pay him $2.7M per year over 2 years.

Ginobili taking the room exception would even allow Spurs to go after Dwight Howard.


If only! would b great for the spurs to pursue some big fa's

[LittleCriminal]

i hope hes planning on taking a huge paycut...
i love the guy but his game is worth $1-5 mill tops.

[pad300]

No, you cannot force a player to sign a contract. If Tiago wants he can sign for the vet minimum (or a max if it's put in front of him), or go to another league, or retire, or whatever he wants.

[baseline bum]

i hope hes planning on taking a huge paycut...
i love the guy but his game is worth $1-5 mill tops.

So Manu is less valuable than Diaw?

[superjames1992]

“I’m not planning on retiring,” Ginobili told the Express-News.

:tu


FWIW, upon the report, rotoworld.com says this about Ginobili's future.

The Spurs probably want Manu back for one more year, but he's going to take a massive pay cut off the $14.1 million he earned in 2012-13. A veteran's minimum deal would be fair.

:lol

[superjames1992]

2 years, $13 million would be a no-brainer, tbh. That's fair.

[picnroll]

I hope and can easily see Manu moving into coaching on the Spurs when he retires. Of all players past and present I think he's best suited. When there's a time out and coaches are huddled away from the players it's usually Manu on the bench giving instructions with the others huddled around him. He'd be a great fit to someday inherit Pop's mantle. Maybe he'd give the Spurs a discount with that role in mind.

[SA210]

Manu haters still out in full effect :lol

[T Park]

Considering his age, injuries and level of play, $6M per year sounds fair for Ginobili.

Now, if Manu is ready to take a big paycut to help Spurs going after the best free agents, the room exception would be the way to go. It would pay him $2.7M per year over 2 years.

Ginobili taking the room exception would even allow Spurs to go after Dwight Howard.

Uhm.... Wow. That would be interesting...

[T Park]

I'd absolutely want Manu back on a contract like 2 years, $13 million. If he's expecting 2 years, $20 million or something along those lines I'd probably have to pass, but I doubt he'll ask for that kind of money.

He took an almost pay it back in 04 iirc when Denver chased him.

[LittleCriminal]

baseline bum
Do you think manu would care if Diaw was making more $$$ than him?

[Mugen]

:lol People thinking Manu will & should sign for anything less than 6mil a year. He's much more valuable than that even without taking into account how popular he is in SA.

Even a broken down Manu who plays 3/4 of the season is a Top 10 SG and should be paid accordingly tbh. 2 year/13 million is a great deal for Manu.

[moisaenz]

He has already made close to 80 million,He is going to sign a decent contract for both parties.

[m33p0]

this thread needs to be locked then revisited after the Finals.

A veteran's minimum deal would be fair.
bullshit.

[Kidd K]

He's definitely not taking a vet minimum, but he shouldn't be getting anywhere near 14 million anymore.

I am a HUGE Manu fan, but at this point saying he's "vastly overpaid" isn't an insult, it's just a fact. 9 mil a year is the maximum he should be getting. Absolute max. I think he should technically be getting somewhere in the 7.5-8m range tbh since you know he's going to miss time.

I want him back, but I want the team to have an extra 5-7m to help bolster the team too. We need a better backup PG is Joseph doesn't progress a LOT, and we also need extra money to re-sign or replace Splitter, not to mention potentially replace both Gary Neal and Matt Bonner. If Manu gets too greedy, our team will be worse by default since they won't be able to afford a good enough supporting cast.

I hope Manu bites the bullet and takes somewhere around a 40-50% paycut. Likewise for Timmy (not 40-50%, just like 20% or something) later when his deal expires. Tony on the other hand is vastly underpaid (since he took one for the team already) and deserves a bonus in his next deal imo.

I'm sure Manu will take the paycut, but I hope it's large enough to allow the Spurs to get stuff done. 30% minimum.

[Kool Bob Love]

Pay him whatever he wants. 2nd most important player behind Tim Duncan.

[SA210]

Pay him whatever he wants. 2nd most important player behind Tim Duncan.

[Mark in Austin]

up to 7M a year would be perfectly fine with me.

[ElNono]

IIRC, Manu said in one of the articles I translated a while back that what's going to happen with him is very similar to Duncan last summer... let the team investigate the market, and then once things settle, they'll look for a deal that works for him and the team.

I would expect things to go exactly as TD's deal went: Spurs made the moves they wanted, then run the numbers and came up with an amount that keep them under the lux tax and was 'fair'.

He wants to finish his career with the Spurs and ideally get a two year extension.

[KL2]

People are overrating the shit out of Manu, he isn't even the 3rd best player on this team. His passing has been erratic, 5.4 Apg with 2.4 TO's per game, and he makes some pretty stupid plays out there that benefit the other team. And offensively he looks done. He's also been plagued by numerous injuries.

I don't want him taking shots away from Leonard either, If Pop actually drew up plays for Kawhi he'd easily average around 18 PPG. I want Manu taking limited shots like he did in the Memphis series.

Manu is still valuable but not as much as others suggest, he's the only other Spur that can run the offense outside of Parker and he does a lot of things that don't show up on the stat sheet.


Let's just wait until we see his performance in the Finals, then we will be able to properly gauge his value.

[ElNono]

He's definitely not taking a vet minimum, but he shouldn't be getting anywhere near 14 million anymore.

He's not getting $14m/year... that's what he's making now. He'll likely get a bit less of what TD's making now ($10m/year)... Anything from $5m to $8m a season is probably in the ballpark...

[ElNono]

People are overrating the shit out of Manu, he isn't even the 3rd best player on this team. His passing has been erratic, 5.4 Apg with 2.4 TO's per game, and he makes some pretty stupid plays out there that benefit the other team. And offensively he looks done. He's also been plagued by numerous injuries.

I don't want him taking shots away from Leonard either, If Pop actually drew up plays for Kawhi he'd easily average around 18 PPG. I want Manu taking limited shots like he did in the Memphis series.

Manu is still valuable but not as much as others suggest, he's the only other Spur that can run the offense outside of Parker and he does a lot of things that don't show up on the stat sheet.


Let's just wait until we see his performance in the Finals, then we will be able to properly gauge his value.

I love Kawhi and I think he's going to be great, but right now, on a per minute production basis, Manu still is the 3rd best player on this team.

The Spurs' offense also rely heavily on ball movement, especially the bench, who has no shot creators, and Manu is the guy, good or bad, that makes everything work there.

Manu isn't even shooting much these days. I wouldn't be too concerned about him taking shots away from anybody, tbh...

[Bruno]

Uhm.... Wow. That would be interesting...

Yeah a Parker/Green/Leonard/Duncan/Howard starting lineup with some good players on the bench like Joseph, Ginobili, Diaw. Looks good on the paper.

It would shock me that Howard picked a team like Spurs but you never know. He certainly is worth the phone call providing Ginobili is fine with the room exception.

[ElNono]

Howard is a both a pipe dream and a huge gamble... wouldn't surprise me at all if the team doesn't consider him Spurs material, tbh

[100%duncan]

Before you go on with your takes remember that RJ will get 11 million next year. :lol

[superjames1992]

People are overrating the shit out of Manu, he isn't even the 3rd best player on this team. His passing has been erratic, 5.4 Apg with 2.4 TO's per game, and he makes some pretty stupid plays out there that benefit the other team. And offensively he looks done. He's also been plagued by numerous injuries.

I don't want him taking shots away from Leonard either, If Pop actually drew up plays for Kawhi he'd easily average around 18 PPG. I want Manu taking limited shots like he did in the Memphis series.

Manu is still valuable but not as much as others suggest, he's the only other Spur that can run the offense outside of Parker and he does a lot of things that don't show up on the stat sheet.


Let's just wait until we see his performance in the Finals, then we will be able to properly gauge his value.
:lol

COK homer, per par. :lol

[dbreiden83080]

You should be..

[maverick1948]

Timmy made about 100 mill the last 5 years when he became a free agent. That averages to about 20 mill a year. He signed for 3yr 30 mill. Manu has been paid about 60 mill for last 5 years. Average per yr 12 mill. Look for the Spurs and Manu to agree on a contract about 3 yr 5-6 mill a yr with last yr non-guaranteed or partial guaranteed.

[rmt]

Yeah a Parker/Green/Leonard/Duncan/Howard starting lineup with some good players on the bench like Joseph, Ginobili, Diaw. Looks good on the paper.

It would shock me that Howard picked a team like Spurs but you never know. He certainly is worth the phone call providing Ginobili is fine with the room exception.

Don't think Spurs would consider DH - his attitude waves a big red flag. Besides, Spurs are known to stand pat especially after a good year (which reaching the Finals is). After the 07 championship, I thought it was a mistake to stand pat but they've since recovered from it (in spite of the RJ fiasco).

If they can re-sign Tiago, Manu and maybe Neal (since his stock should be low), it'll be a good off-season.

[kaji157]

Manu will most likely get two years, the second being a player option and he will sign for what fits the team and over 4 millions for each season.
I don´t think Ginobili will say NO to a two year contract worth only 8 millions if the FO puts a good team that can contend for two years.
But if the Spurs are 7 millions below the salary cap. And they can´t sign anyone for those extra 3 millions (4 are going to Ginobili) then they will give him 7 and I think he earned that compliment from the team.
He might been overpaid this season, but he was underpaid for at least 5 seasons, and he did sign a very shitty contract to join the Spurs in the first place.

[ElNono]

At this stage, re-sign Tiago and Manu, keep developing Baynes, CoJo, DeColo, let go of Bonner, Blair and Neal and give Kawhi a bigger role offensively... I think that's an offseason that would be great right there... I wouldn't even mind bringing back T-Mac as insurance... he might actually have a bit left in the tank and he's still fairly young for a two-year deal for the vet minimum...

[Aztecfan03]

When Manu is on, he is the best player on the team bc of what he can do all around for the team, period. He isn't finished yet.

Then I guess he is never on anymore.

[EVAY]

There is no way, imo, that the Spurs are going to break up the 'Big 3' after this season unless Ginobili makes it impossible to give him enough money (i.e. if he were to demand too much). I just don't see Manu doing that.

My guess is that he will sign for about 6-8 M per year, and everyone will be happy, because we still need him leading the second team.

Anything else is just unthinkable, imo.

[TheyCallMePro]

Ginobli is still amazing. Without him, the bench would be worthless.

And you guys do know that Ginobli is essentially the back-up point guard and 2nd main facilitator on this team right? He's absolutely critical to this team's success.

He'll be offered at least 5 million a year. The Spurs won't insult Ginobli. I remember before the Lakers series this year a reporter asked Pop what it would mean if Ginobli was out for the playoffs because of injury. Pop simply responded. "Then it's over for us"

Surprised by the number of Ginobli haters on this thread. He's meant everything to this franchise. He'll go down as the most exciting, most cherished and beloved Spur of all time.

[Capt Bringdown]

"Thank you" contracts suck.

[024]

I think the MLE for two years would be fair... even a little bit high for loyalty. I think the Spurs would be lucky if Manu plays 3/4 of both seasons.

I'm more concerned about Splitter. I still can't peg his value. We'll see how he performs in the finals.

[SouthernFried]

I would like to see Manu retire. Just watching him drive makes my arthritis flare up. His joints look stiffer than mine. What with those super long strides of his, it just looks painful for him. I see a hip replacement in his future.

Having said that, if he doesn't retire, I'm sure he'll do what's best for the team as far as salary goes. Whatever he and the Spurs agree upon, I'm good with it. Manu is not only my favorite Spurs player...but has been my favorite NBA player for a very long time. He can stay as long he wants. He's worn a caste...I think he'll do fine with a cane :)

[DAF86]

People are overrating the shit out of Manu, he isn't even the 3rd best player on this team. His passing has been erratic, 5.4 Apg with 2.4 TO's per game, and he makes some pretty stupid plays out there that benefit the other team. And offensively he looks done. He's also been plagued by numerous injuries.

I don't want him taking shots away from Leonard either, If Pop actually drew up plays for Kawhi he'd easily average around 18 PPG. I want Manu taking limited shots like he did in the Memphis series.

Manu is still valuable but not as much as others suggest, he's the only other Spur that can run the offense outside of Parker and he does a lot of things that don't show up on the stat sheet.


Let's just wait until we see his performance in the Finals, then we will be able to properly gauge his value.

He's still the second (maybe only) playmaker we have after Tony. He's not overrated, Do you really want to see the second unit be managed by Neal/Joseph or whoever else is left?

[TheGoldStandard]

Manu will get a 2 year 15 Mil deal and then ride off into the sunset once that deal ends.

[KL2]

He's still the second (maybe only) playmaker we have after Tony. He's not overrated, Do you really want to see the second unit be managed by Neal/Joseph or whoever else is left?


Of course not, I just don't want SA to overpay for him if there is a better option out there they can afford.

[DAF86]

Of course not, I just don't want SA to overpay for him if there is a better option out there they can afford.

What other option could there be out there? If you didn't know, this 35 years old with a broken body that everybody is saying is playing like shit is still posting an effeciency rating of 20+ pts in these playoffs. That's pretty damn good for any all-star player let alone an old fart like him, tbh.

[Kidd K]

He's not getting $14m/year... that's what he's making now. He'll likely get a bit less of what TD's making now ($10m/year)... Anything from $5m to $8m a season is probably in the ballpark...

I know he's making that now, that's why I said that number.

5m would be a godsend, though I think the minimum he'll take would be around 7.5m.

[ElNono]

I know he's making that now, that's why I said that number.

5m would be a godsend, though I think the minimum he'll take would be around 7.5m.

I don't think money will be an issue at all, unless the Spurs go with something stupid like vet minimum... He wants to stay, the Spurs want him back... it'll work out.

People also underestimate other business-related things that come with keeping a fan favorite like Manu around... ticket sales, merchandise sales... thankfully Manu isn't a guy that bitches at reduced minutes or stuff like that, so I think it will all work out in the end.

[Spurs and Mavs fan]

Pay him whatever he wants. 2nd most important player behind Tim Duncan.


Um no, there's a guy called Tony Parker.

[Kidd K]

I don't think money will be an issue at all, unless the Spurs go with something stupid like vet minimum... He wants to stay, the Spurs want him back... it'll work out.

People also underestimate other business-related things that come with keeping a fan favorite like Manu around... ticket sales, merchandise sales... thankfully Manu isn't a guy that bitches at reduced minutes or stuff like that, so I think it will all work out in the end.

I don't underestimate it. In my first post, I said I'd like to have Manu back anyway.

I was only speaking on the salary cap and how Manu's high salary remaining where it is restricts what the Spurs can do in the offseason. Merch sales would be good with Manu around, but team quality doesn't go up if he continues to get paid that much. Profit and quality in business usually don't go hand in hand.

I agree that offering him vet minimum is a stupid idea though. That's just a slap in the face. He deserves more, I just hope it isn't any more than 7-9m.

[BackHome]

Manu will sign he is not all about the $$$ he understands that he is not the same player and will take less to still play and help us win some games.

[Man In Black]

Found this on another board:


4. San Antonio Spurs | Future Power Rating: 774
PLAYERS MANAGEMENT MONEY MARKET DRAFT
378 (9th) 170 (1st) 125 (8th) 55 (13th) 44 (19th)

We recently celebrated the fifth anniversary of the Spurs being considered too old to remain contenders. Instead, San Antonio is heading in the opposite direction in the Future Power Rankings; this is the highest the Spurs have ever ranked in the FPR, dating back to November 2009. San Antonio certainly has benefited from this year's Finals run, but the Spurs' future would be promising no matter what.

Quietly, San Antonio has managed its salary structure to potentially have more than $20 million in cap space this summer. In practice, much of that will go to re-signing free agents Manu Ginobili and Tiago Splitter, but Splitter's cap hold ($7.5 million) is reasonable enough that the Spurs could still clear about $10 million if Ginobili quickly agrees to a smaller new contract.

The flexibility is impressive given San Antonio has four starters under contract from this year's Western Conference champions. While the Spurs will see their depth take a hit with reserves DeJuan Blair, Gary Neal and possibly Boris Diaw (player option) hitting free agency, GM R.C. Buford and head coach Gregg Popovich have repeatedly demonstrated their ability to find cheap newcomers they can plug into San Antonio's system.

The biggest looming question is how long Duncan can continue to anchor the Spurs. He has two years left (including a player option) on the contract he signed last summer and is coming off a season as good on a per-minute basis as any since the 2007 championship. As long as Duncan competes at a high level, so too will San Antonio.

-- Kevin Pelton
(Previous rank: 9)

[exstatic]

People are overrating the shit out of Manu, he isn't even the 3rd best player on this team. His passing has been erratic, 5.4 Apg with 2.4 TO's per game, and he makes some pretty stupid plays out there that benefit the other team. And offensively he looks done. He's also been plagued by numerous injuries.

I don't want him taking shots away from Leonard either, If Pop actually drew up plays for Kawhi he'd easily average around 18 PPG. I want Manu taking limited shots like he did in the Memphis series.

Manu is still valuable but not as much as others suggest, he's the only other Spur that can run the offense outside of Parker and he does a lot of things that don't show up on the stat sheet.


Let's just wait until we see his performance in the Finals, then we will be able to properly gauge his value.

:lol That's over 2 to 1, or in simple terms, PG territory. Very few teams even HAVE a SG who has such a good ratio, let alone one who can actually create in volume, and if they could get a SG like that, they'd PAY.

[exstatic]

Howard is a both a pipe dream and a huge gamble... wouldn't surprise me at all if the team doesn't consider him Spurs material, tbh

This. Unless he had some sort of "come to Jesus" talk with Pop, I can't ever see them pursuing him. He has all kinds of huge locker room and health red flags.

[Russ]

Then I guess he is never on anymore.

He hit the biggest shot of the season thus far. (And this has been a season full of big shots thus far.)

[rascal]

The Spurs will be over paying for the production they will be getting back. It is going to get ugly.

[DAF86]

Howard doesn't like playing the pick and roll on offense and is horrible at defending it too. I think I would rather keep Tiago at a much lower price.

[superjames1992]

:lol That's over 2 to 1, or in simple terms, PG territory. Very few teams even HAVE a SG who has such a good ratio, let alone one who can actually create in volume, and if they could get a SG like that, they'd PAY.
Some COKers just make shit up to defend their "point". It's sad. People can't just be happy that we are going to the Finals; they have to make shit up to hate on their "favorite" team's players. :bang

[superjames1992]

Isn't the average NBA salary ~$5 million? Surely, Manu should get paid more than that, tbh. Of course, if he wants to take less so we can sign better talent, I will take that, too. :tu

[kaji157]

Some stat facts for Manu. He leads the team in two catrgories in the playoffs.

NETrtg (team point differential per 100 posessions) he is at +20 per NBA.com advanced stats.

He also leads the team in overall +/-.

[Dverde]

Manu should do everyone a solid and just retire after this year. Spurs should realize that he simple isn't a "big three" player anymore. It's not easy going from a star player to a bench player on the same team. I remember Bowen having trouble with it in his last year. Next season is the time for the Spurs to transition to someone new. I would rather remember Manu battling in the playoffs then coming off the bench going 3 for 7 for 6 PPG. Spurs should focus on someone who can be the next sixth man like Tyreke Evans or JJ Redick

[emanueldavidginobili]

I hope and can easily see Manu moving into coaching on the Spurs when he retires. Of all players past and present I think he's best suited. When there's a time out and coaches are huddled away from the players it's usually Manu on the bench giving instructions with the others huddled around him. He'd be a great fit to someday inherit Pop's mantle. Maybe he'd give the Spurs a discount with that role in mind.
Nope when he retires he's going back to Argentina and being a dad he has twins now and has no interest of coaching when he is done

[spurraider21]

Manu should do everyone a solid and just retire after this year. Spurs should realize that he simple isn't a "big three" player anymore. It's not easy going from a star player to a bench player on the same team. I remember Bowen having trouble with it in his last year. Next season is the time for the Spurs to transition to someone new. I would rather remember Manu battling in the playoffs then coming off the bench going 3 for 7 for 6 PPG. Spurs should focus on someone who can be the next sixth man like Tyreke Evans or JJ Redick
We can probably afford to grab one of those guys and retain Manu. Also, Manu spent a majority of his career as a 6th man, so not sure where all that is coming from. He still runs the 2nd unit and is clutch

[ace3g]

340932040901931008

[Mouth is Bleeding]

Some stat facts for Manu. He leads the team in two catrgories in the playoffs.

NETrtg (team point differential per 100 posessions) he is at +20 per NBA.com advanced stats.

He also leads the team in overall +/-.

:tu

[slick'81]

That is a sweet looking jersey

[TMTTRIO]

Manu should do everyone a solid and just retire after this year. Spurs should realize that he simple isn't a "big three" player anymore. It's not easy going from a star player to a bench player on the same team. I remember Bowen having trouble with it in his last year. Next season is the time for the Spurs to transition to someone new. I would rather remember Manu battling in the playoffs then coming off the bench going 3 for 7 for 6 PPG. Spurs should focus on someone who can be the next sixth man like Tyreke Evans or JJ Redick

To be fair Manu has always been a bench player as long as he's been with this team.

[Man In Black]

To be fair Manu has always been a bench player as long as he's been with this team.
Those guys don't have the same court vision that Manu has, and their intangibles have shown any kind of tangential evidence that they either could contribute what Manu does. It ain't just about the points per game. It's his willingness to play defense, his playmaking ability, then his knowledge of Pop's system. Even if Tyreke and JJ jumped into a transporter and combined themselves, they would still fall short of what Manu provides. If Nando grows a pair and learns to be an attacking force as opposed to a passive onlooker, then Manu's time on the court won't be needed as much. To be fair, he's like Tim & Tony & David, he can stay as long as he wants provided he accepts that the team needs to have fiscal responsibility.

[Richie]

I love Kawhi and I think he's going to be great, but right now, on a per minute production basis, Manu still is the 3rd best player on this team.

On per minute production basis, Duncan is still at his 2003 MVP level. Unfortunately he isn't really, because he can't play at that level and play major minutes.

If Manu could play even as many as 30 minutes/game for a full 82 game season + playoffs, I'd be happy with paying him $10m. Unfortunately he'll be playing less than 24min and will miss at least 20 games through injury. Throw in his level of play, I think he's due around $5m.

I'd happily pay him more for non-basketball reasons like what he's done for the franchise, but as a player I think $5m is fair.

[Richie]

Don't think Spurs would consider DH - his attitude waves a big red flag. Besides, Spurs are known to stand pat especially after a good year (which reaching the Finals is). After the 07 championship, I thought it was a mistake to stand pat but they've since recovered from it (in spite of the RJ fiasco).

If they can re-sign Tiago, Manu and maybe Neal (since his stock should be low), it'll be a good off-season.

That would be a horrible off season. With our cap situation we should be looking to add at least one quality player. At the minimum we should be able to bring in a $7m free agent and retain Splitter and Manu (while letting go of Bonner).

[ElNono]

On per minute production basis, Duncan is still at his 2003 MVP level. Unfortunately he isn't really, because he can't play at that level and play major minutes.

If Manu could play even as many as 30 minutes/game for a full 82 game season + playoffs, I'd be happy with paying him $10m. Unfortunately he'll be playing less than 24min and will miss at least 20 games through injury. Throw in his level of play, I think he's due around $5m.

I'd happily pay him more for non-basketball reasons like what he's done for the franchise, but as a player I think $5m is fair.

The whole point of my response had to do with the fact that these vets are very productive in limited minutes... they're not scrubs. What Manu 'in the decline' does in 25 mins right now takes a 'blossoming star' in Kawhi 35 mins... also Kawhi ended up missing more games than Manu this season, so the downtime is relative... the question is what do the Spurs want from Manu the next two seasons, and whether they think he can deliver.

After all, for all his alleged 'suckitude', he's the 3rd most productive player on a team heading to the NBA Finals...

Manu isn't going to get the same or more than TD, who is currently making $10m/year... I think what he ends up getting is largely dependent on how much it costs the Spurs to re-sign guys like Tiago, etc...

[Richie]

I do wonder how much emphasis Manu puts on his salary. He knows he and Tim only have a couple years left, it would make more sense to prioritise winning over salary.

I'd like to see a deal with Manu where we can chase a marquee free agent, and he will be willing to take the Room exception if we get one, or $7m otherwise.

Again it all depends on what the cap is, but we could have a potential $13m to offer if Manu takes the Room exception, AND keep Tiago. That could get us David West (even if we have to overpay him a little) who would be an excellent fit IMO. Another benefit of taking West would be that he would take a shorter contract which wouldn't restrict us post-Duncan.

[ElNono]

Don't forget the Spurs also have to offer a deal to Diaw if they want to keep him...

[Mr. Body]

If Ginobili starts hitting his shots, Mimi (or Indiana) is screwed. It would be really hard for those teams, as they are now playing, to match.

[spurraider21]

Don't forget the Spurs also have to offer a deal to Diaw if they want to keep him...

If he opts out we'd pretty much have the cap room to make a max offer to Dwight

[timtonymanu]

340932040901931008

The Finals logo just makes it sweeter. I thought we wouldn't see that again in the Duncan era.

[timtonymanu]

What's TMTTRIO's take on this?

[Bruno]

Depending on what cap number is and/or if Spurs wants to go after a major FA, Spurs could very well be in a situation where he doesn't really matter if Ginobili makes $6M, $8M, $10M or $12M in 2013/2014. In that scenario, what would make sense for Spurs would be to give Manu a 1 year contract with a high salary like $10M.

[SpurOutofTownFan]

Those who are calling for Manu to retire:

1. Haven't watched the Spurs the last few years
2. Don't understand Pop's system
3. Very likely don't understand BB
4. Ignore facts
5. Underestimate the heart of a champion
6. Don't understand how the Spurs have built what they have

[Dverde]

Manu is no longer clutch. He can hit a big shot with the game on the line. For every one he makes he misses three. There is a difference. Clutch players dont come up empty as often as he does now.

[spurnash]

If the Spurs don't go after any major free agents and simply are trying to sign Ginobili, Splitter and their draft and stash players there will be plenty of room under the tax. It would be best if Manu signs a two year contract with a big year 1 number and low year two number....ie. 9M year 1, 3M year 2.

[exstatic]

Manu is no longer clutch. He can hit a big shot with the game on the line. For every one he makes he misses three. There is a difference. Clutch players dont come up empty as often as he does now.

If there is a shot to win the Finals, I want Manu taking it.

[exstatic]

340932040901931008

Back in Black. :smokin

[SpurOutofTownFan]

Manu is no longer clutch. He can hit a big shot with the game on the line. For every one he makes he misses three. There is a difference. Clutch players dont come up empty as often as he does now.

Please refer to my previous post. Thank you.

[nkdlunch]

good news

[Legacy]

340932040901931008

Sweeet! Lookin' sharp!! :D :hat

[Russ]

340932040901931008

Hmmmmm . . . .

Road jersey. Does that mean someone knows something?

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

Hmmmmm . . . .

Road jersey. Does that mean someone knows something?

That they will play two road games at least in the Finals?

[spurraider21]

Hmmmmm . . . .

Road jersey. Does that mean someone knows something?
they don't want to give away the home one. will they go back to white or stick with alternate? the mystery continues

[superjames1992]

Considering his age, injuries and level of play, $6M per year sounds fair for Ginobili.

Now, if Manu is ready to take a big paycut to help Spurs going after the best free agents, the room exception would be the way to go. It would pay him $2.7M per year over 2 years.

Ginobili taking the room exception would even allow Spurs to go after Dwight Howard.

https://twitter.com/Buck_SA/status/341253694249127936


@Buck_SA

D12 to LAT: I couldn't watch the playoffs I was so ticked. Everywhere I went I saw a Tim Duncan jersey, and you know how much I hated that.

:lol

[emanueldavidginobili]

Manu just said even though he can see the road ending he can't imagine being retired....no way he doesnt sign for 2 years

[temujin]

Manu is no longer clutch. He can hit a big shot with the game on the line. For every one he makes he misses three. There is a difference. Clutch players dont come up empty as often as he does now.

Mark Jackson and the whole Warriors crew, going down 1-2 instead of 3-0 because of Emaunel Ginobili's play,
say a -bitter- HI!

[Leetonidas]

I see 2 years at 6 million a piece with a player option on the 2nd year imo, seems fair. He does not deserve to get 10M imo like Tim

[kaji157]

I see 2 years at 6 million a piece with a player option on the 2nd year imo, seems fair. He does not deserve to get 10M imo like Tim

That´s assuming he won´t improve next season.
Tim didn´t deserve the 10M a year extension when he took it other than being Tim, and we all were aalright with him getting it. Now he is even underpaid. Ginobili can also improve next year ala TD.

[Leetonidas]

That´s assuming he won´t improve next season.
Tim didn´t deserve the 10M a year extension when he took it other than being Tim, and we all were aalright with him getting it. Now he is even underpaid. Ginobili can also improve next year ala TD.

You can't compare Duncan's impact on the franchise/city to Ginobili's. Spurs could've handed him a blank check and he woulda deserved every penny for his contributions to the Spurs.

And Tim was, what. 14/8 last season? Most 7 footers putting up those numbers make ~10 million

[KL2]

People are overrating the shit out of Manu, he isn't even the 3rd best player on this team. His passing has been erratic, 5.4 Apg with 2.4 TO's per game, and he makes some pretty stupid plays out there that benefit the other team. And offensively he looks done. He's also been plagued by numerous injuries.

I don't want him taking shots away from Leonard either, If Pop actually drew up plays for Kawhi he'd easily average around 18 PPG. I want Manu taking limited shots like he did in the Memphis series.

Manu is still valuable but not as much as others suggest, he's the only other Spur that can run the offense outside of Parker and he does a lot of things that don't show up on the stat sheet.


Let's just wait until we see his performance in the Finals, then we will be able to properly gauge his value.



Please Manu, no mas.

[TheGreatYacht]

Anyone in here still feel attached to this man and the need to overpay him by offering him more than the veteran's minimum after what he did to TD?

[Mouth is Bleeding]

what he did to TD lol.

You go retire your retarded act if anything.

[JingleJangleJingle]

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lu9a0d67zX1qfzvqmo1_1280.png

[Gervin44Silas13]

Goodbye Manu!!!!

[Cowboys_Wear_Spurs]

The only real relief of Splitter and Manu less than stellar performances this finals is their price tags just dropped tremendously for the Spurs. This will allow the Spurs to sign someone for a pretty decent contract.

Last year, I wanted the Spurs to sign OJ Mayo and I still do. Him starting next to Kawhi, Parker, Duncan and Splitter with Green, Manu, De Colo, Neal and Diaw being the main guys coming off the bench.

[CosmicCowboy]

Vet Minimum

Thanks for the memories but his skill level fell off the cliff after the all star break.

He is still a game changer but not in a good way.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

It's pretty clear Manu is destined for the scapegoat tag in the E-N this summer. They'll destroy him down to where he's a minimum contract if he returns at all.

[Typical London Boy]

Ginobili is an all-time Spurs legend, but they should retire his jersey and move on. He's become a liability and does more harm than good.

If they insist on sticking with him, then they must also insist that he retires from international basketball.

[King]

Manu is still a very serviceable player. The problem comes in when people (fans and/or coaches) expect him to be anything more than a 4th or 5th option. Off the bench as a 15-18 minute guy, he'd be fine.

[Gervin44Silas13]

his game is done!

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Manu is still a very serviceable player. The problem comes in when people (fans and/or coaches) expect him to be anything more than a 4th or 5th option. Off the bench as a 15-18 minute guy, he'd be fine.

The problem is, our coach expects just that.

[elbamba]

I would offer 2 years for 6 million (3 million a year). I think he is worth that for 15 - 20 minutes a game. But he needs to promise to not play for his country in the offseason. The man isn't done he just isn't close to the Manu we have seen the past 10 years.

The main reason I feel that he should not get paid more is that Manu always put country first. I am okay with that, but the Spurs have lost a lot of minutes due to his injuries because he chose to do that. Tim changed his offseason workouts so that he could get more milage out of his body. Manu did the opposite. I still love him, but that has to be a consideration when considering an extension. If Manu feels insulted, then let him walk.

[Cowboys_Wear_Spurs]

I would offer 2 years for 6 million (3 million a year). I think he is worth that for 15 - 20 minutes a game. But he needs to promise to not play for his country in the offseason. The man isn't done he just isn't close to the Manu we have seen the past 10 years.


He already said he retired from Int'l play after the olympics. I would give Manu no more than 3 mil a year.
He is no longer the Manu of old. But he still would be one of the best bench options in the league.

If were the Spurs, I would sign Mayo to start at SG and resign TMac to play backup SF.

Move Green into Neal's position of backup PG/SG. Still have Manu run the point, but he will have TMac and Diaw to help him with the facilitator duties as well. Spurs would just have to look for a backup C.

This is the most the Spurs have had in awhile to improve their roster salary cap wise. And the Spurs pretty much is paying lower than market value of everyone of their players after this season save Matt Bonner, who probably will be trade or bought out.

[ducks]

It's pretty clear Manu is destined for the scapegoat tag in the E-N this summer. They'll destroy him down to where he's a minimum contract if he returns at all.

that is all he is worth
dude should play 15 minutes a game max

[spurraider21]

Please come back Manu.

Prayingdog.jpg

[superbigtime]

Manu please retire.

[Spurs Brazil]

Ginobili vs. his past: Why he still has value
Buck Harvey

He understands a sizeable pay cut is coming, just as there was last summer for Duncan. The Spurs won't be bidding against another team. Instead, this will be about finding a reasonable salary, and here's a guess: About $4 million a season for two seasons.

http://www.expressnews.com/sports/columnists/buck_harvey/article/Ginobili-vs-his-past-Why-he-still-has-value-4615715.php?t=1c136cdfa9927fc3fb

[milkyway21]

$5M a season for Manu max. No trade clause.

I would hate to see Manu playing against the Spurs.

[CGD]

http://www.expressnews.com/sports/columnists/buck_harvey/article/Ginobili-vs-his-past-Why-he-still-has-value-4615715.php?t=1c136cdfa9927fc3fb

Thats seems like a good deal to me.

[SA210]

That´s assuming he won´t improve next season.
Tim didn´t deserve the 10M a year extension when he took it other than being Tim, and we all were aalright with him getting it. Now he is even underpaid. Ginobili can also improve next year ala TD.

This is exactly what I have been saying. Manu just needs a summer off imo. Regroup and come back re-focused.

[DPG21920]

Very solid article by Buck. There are so many questions it leads to however. Will Manu want to play if its in a reduced role while the guys that he grew up with (TD/TP) are still centerpieces? Is he physically good enough to play (meaning in a reduced role is it worth it to him to go through a rigorous season)?

I think if he wanted to he could certainly hold the franchise financially hostage. I don't think he would, but the opportunity is there. He should be back, I want him back and Buck was 10000000% right in saying 4M per year is a steal. If that happens that would go a long way for the franchise.

[dallasmaverickslose]

I'd love for Manu to comeback but we can't depend on him quite like we used to anymore. I'm not sure Danny Green is a complete SG for us. He's more of a 3-pt specialist with some good defensive instincts. We need to either sign or draft a solid SG/SF this offseason to start taking over Manu's role.

[SA210]

Manu will come back refreshed and better than most think he can.

[rascal]

Manu will come back refreshed and better than most think he can.

No he won't. Age has caught up with him.

[SA210]

No he won't. Age has caught up with him.

Yes, he will come back better. You hated on him even in some of his great years.

[rascal]

Yes, he will come back better. You hated on him even in some of his great years.

He hasn't been all that great for years now during the playoffs. Has been injured or played bad. Was one of the worst players last year against OK City, was injured 4 years in a row before that, and cost the title this year.

[SA210]

He hasn't been all that great for years now during the playoffs. Has been injured or played bad. Was one of the worst players last year against OK City, was injured 4 years in a row before that, and cost the title this year.

Pop cost us the title. Pop benched Duncan when we were 28 seconds away from the trophy, he also overplayed Manu when Manu was sucking bad. That's coaching. That's just the truth.

[UZER]

Manu keeps getting hurt because he keeps trying to play like he's 25. He doesn't understand pacing himself. Its balls out 150% every possession and this last playoff proves that he cannot play under control and is a huge liability.

As DPG has said, fair or unfair, this has changed many peoples perception of Manu. I used to think of him as a killer, smart, clutch player. He definitely looks like his bball IQ has dropped tremendously with absolutely stupid turnover and stupid turnover in the clutch, and both of those lead to him going from killer to someone you dont want watching your back in the bunker (in basketball terms).

[TheGreatYacht]

Manu keeps getting hurt because he keeps trying to play like he's 25. He doesn't understand pacing himself. Its balls out 150% every possession and this last playoff proves that he cannot play under control and is a huge liability.

As DPG has said, fair or unfair, this has changed many peoples perception of Manu. I used to think of him as a killer, smart, clutch player. He definitely looks like his bball IQ has dropped tremendously with absolutely stupid turnover and stupid turnover in the clutch, and both of those lead to him going from killer to someone you dont want watching your back in the bunker (in basketball terms).This. I still think 4 million is too much. Nothing more than the veteran's minimum is good enough. Manu needs to do what Duncan did, and I'm pretty sure he will, which is to let the Spurs do their signing of FA's, get some help for the Spurs, and then take whatever money is left. If the Spurs end up using all their caps space to sign some good FA's then so be it. Manu can take the veteran's minimum or retire.

[BoviceRunsTrains]

I hope he signs for cheap and has a reduced role. Get a better 6th man

[Manutrix]

Manu can take the veteran's minimum or retire.

Or go to another team. Would you blame him for it? Or too scared that he might prove you wrong on another team? Retire my ass!

[TheGreatYacht]

Or go to another team. Would you blame him for it? Or too scared that he might prove you wrong on another team? Retire my ass!Nah. There is no other better coach at managing minutes better than Pop. If Manu went to another team, his new team would expect too much out of him, overplay him in minutes, the guy gets injured, will play like sh*t and he retires. Manu knows this too. He will not fit on another team at this point in his career. Either retire or let the Spurs do the necessary signings and take whatever is left. Manu should not be the FO priority at all.

[ElNono]

:lol sometimes the contrast between Spursfan and the FO couldn't be bigger, tbh... reactionary vs big picture.

Reminds me of 2010, when some spursfan doubted Tim and wanted to blow the team up...

I think the FO learned from the last knee-jerk, when they signed Richard Jefferson.

[BackHome]

Nah. There is no other better coach at managing minutes better than Pop. If Manu went to another team, his new team would expect too much out of him, overplay him in minutes, the guy gets injured, will play like sh*t and he retires. Manu knows this too. He will not fit on another team at this point in his career. Either retire or let the Spurs do the necessary signings and take whatever is left. Manu should not be the FO priority at all.

+1

[TheGreatYacht]

:lol sometimes the contrast between Spursfan and the FO couldn't be bigger, tbh... reactionary vs big picture.

Reminds me of 2010, when some spursfan doubted Tim and wanted to blow the team up...

I think the FO learned from the last knee-jerk, when they signed Richard Jefferson.Timmy is actually 37 now. If I believe in anyone it's Timmy but he's still 37. Tim losing weight was huge and we all begun to see the fruits of his labor since last year but how much more can he really last us? I don't want to take the risk by doing the status quo which is to stay pat, wait for our role players to develop, draft good players, and then hope that genius Pop can work his magic. Manu is what? 35? This is not 2010 anymore. Spurs need to seriously address the backup PG and possible Splitter replacement issue. Paying Manu will only hinder the situation.

[ElNono]

:lmao @ the hindsight brigade

After getting swept by the Suns and kicked out in the 1st round by Memphis with ZBo dominating, people were making thread after thread to blow this shit up...

Tim deserves all the credit, because what's he doing at 37 is unheard of, losing weight or not. Pop deserves credit too, because he changed TD's role to be more of a jumpshooter and extend his shelf life.

But that's the difference between knee jerk spursfan and the FO. The FO understand what they have and how they can still make it work. Reactionary spursfan gets caught up in the moment and just want 'change', whatever that brings.

[024]

After the Lakers series, I though Ginobili deserved around $6 million per year. But after the playoffs, he deserves closer to $3-4 million, maybe less. And that's with the loyalty discount. It'll be a giant gamble to continue letting Ginobili play on this team. It's basically playing Russian Roulette every time he has the ball and 4 out of 6 chambers of the gun are loaded. He's either going to brick a step back 3, turn the ball over, or make a decent pass.

If he doesn't like the offer, then he can retire or join another team (hopefully the Heat).

[TXstbobcat]

I want to see Manu back next year, but not a with to big of a contract. Hopefully no more than 7 million over 2 years.

[TheGreatYacht]

@ the hindsight brigade
After getting swept by the Suns and kicked out in the 1st round by Memphis with ZBo dominating, people were making thread after thread to blow this shit up...
Tim deserves all the credit, because what's he doing at 37 is unheard of, losing weight or not. Pop deserves credit too, because he changed TD's role to be more of a jumpshooter and extend his shelf life.
But that's the difference between knee jerk spursfan and the FO. The FO understand what they have and how they can still make it work. Reactionary spursfan gets caught up in the moment and just want 'change', whatever that brings.I already said what I have to say. I'm just saying about Manu because he did cost us the championship. I actually love the team that we have. We were 28 seconds away from winning it all.

I firmly believe that we were the better team. Manu evened things out for the Heat. Manu made the series go longer than necessary. Manu gave life to the Heat with his pathetic performance after Game 6. Had the Spurs won the championship, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

I'll never forget that Manu's breakfast shot was probably the biggest reason why we overcame Golden State but Manu's pathetic performance in the NBA finals upsets everything good he did earlier.

If Manu does come back next year, I hope that getting a full summer's rest from his stupid olympic team pays dividends. Kind of random but Kawhi Leonard should give the F*ck you to coach K and decline that invitation to Team USA training camp. Leonard needs to rest those knees. My opinion about Manu's salary remains the same.

[024]

:lmao @ the hindsight brigade

After getting swept by the Suns and kicked out in the 1st round by Memphis with ZBo dominating, people were making thread after thread to blow this shit up...

Tim deserves all the credit, because what's he doing at 37 is unheard of, losing weight or not. Pop deserves credit too, because he changed TD's role to be more of a jumpshooter and extend his shelf life.

But that's the difference between knee jerk spursfan and the FO. The FO understand what they have and how they can still make it work. Reactionary spursfan gets caught up in the moment and just want 'change', whatever that brings.
At this point, letting Ginobili leave isn't blowing anything up. Leonard has already replaced Ginobili as the 3rd best player and Green is already scoring just as many points as Ginobili.

And :lol how is it hindsight if people predicted this in 2010? They correctly predicted in 2010 that this core can't win a championship. Did the Spurs win a championship since then?

[UZER]

:lmao @ the hindsight brigade

After getting swept by the Suns and kicked out in the 1st round by Memphis with ZBo dominating, people were making thread after thread to blow this shit up...

Tim deserves all the credit, because what's he doing at 37 is unheard of, losing weight or not. Pop deserves credit too, because he changed TD's role to be more of a jumpshooter and extend his shelf life.

But that's the difference between knee jerk spursfan and the FO. The FO understand what they have and how they can still make it work. Reactionary spursfan gets caught up in the moment and just want 'change', whatever that brings.

Half true. The FO understands they have limited options since major FAs will never come here, and other teams do not extend their trade hands to the spurs organization they way they do the other major markets for whatever reason be it envy for their success, or no under the table side benefits most big markets probably offer (ie owner to owner houses, businesses, women etc.). Who knows why.

Knee jerk reactions are sometimes valid, but with little ability to do anything about it, sometimes your forced to stay pat.

[Capt Bringdown]

Manu keeps getting hurt because he keeps trying to play like he's 25. He doesn't understand pacing himself. Its balls out 150% every possession and this last playoff proves that he cannot play under control and is a huge liability.

As DPG has said, fair or unfair, this has changed many peoples perception of Manu. I used to think of him as a killer, smart, clutch player. He definitely looks like his bball IQ has dropped tremendously with absolutely stupid turnover and stupid turnover in the clutch, and both of those lead to him going from killer to someone you dont want watching your back in the bunker (in basketball terms).

This. I suppose I shouldn't be astonished that anyone wants him back at any price, but I am. 8 turnovers in game 6 should be his ticket off the team, and that's not just a matter of one game. It's all of piece.
What does Manu have that we need at this point? He absolutely can't be trusted in the playoffs. Useless in other words. And next year he's going to be that much older, and that much worse.
Manu is finished.

[TheGreatYacht]

This. I suppose I shouldn't be astonished that anyone wants him back at any price, but I am. 8 turnovers in game 6 should be his ticket off the team, and that's not just a matter of one game. It's all of piece.
What does Manu have that we need at this point? He absolutely can't be trusted in the playoffs. Useless in other words. And next year he's going to be that much older, and that much worse.
Manu is finished.^:lmao Well said.

[Skull-1]

TheGreatYacht is dead on right. Well said.

[Capt Bringdown]

8 fucking turnovers, EIGHT in game 6 that unequivocally cost us a ring, and we're supposed to be agonizing about how to re-sign this loser? The Manu fanbois never fail to amaze.

[ElNono]

In 2010 some people wanted to let TD walk or (damn, this is hilarious) trade him for picks to hit the lottery and start rebuilding.

:lol People asking what we could get for TD. You don't hit the lottery winning 50 games a season.

There was no Kawhi then. People were wondering if TD was done. The outlook was 1st or 2nd round fodder, and big 3 farewell tour.



I know it's difficult not to be reactionary now, but perspective people. This team went back to back to the WCF and NBA Finals, under the cap, with 'sucky' Manu running the second unit.

If Manu wants to come back, the Spurs will simply bring him back at least to see if he can still produce on a different role. Manu had a poor season overall, but he's only one season removed from being a top SG in this league.

It likely won't be for the vet minimum, and there's nothing outrageous about that. I'm sure the Spurs and Manu both will make sure that whatever deal happens won't affect the rest of what the Spurs want to do in the market (much like what happened with TD resigning).

[Skull-1]

8 fucking turnovers, EIGHT in game 6 that unequivocally cost us a ring, and we're supposed to be agonizing about how to re-sign this loser? The Manu fanbois never fail to amaze.


Not sure how a summer off will fix his decision making.... Just epic in its failure. Worst turnover game of his career. One less we win... Utterly disgusting and I am a Manu fanboi...

[UZER]

My issue is not Manu coming back. My issue is him coming back trying to play the same way. It's not gonna work anymore at his age. Again, just look at what happened in the playoffs. Turnovers due to rhythm is one thing. Turnover after turnover over forcing things that just aren't there is another.

I felt like I was watching Romo during the play-in game against Phili a few years back. My god romo just wouldn't stop forcing and turning it over it became laughable to the point you were saying to yourself, "man how stupid is this guy!?"

And no I'm not comparing a three time champion to Romo, I'm just saying Manus play has gotten so bad that that's what it reminded me of. Sad.

[Skull-1]

I like Romo, too. Thanks for that painful reminder. Lol

[ElNono]

My issue is not Manu coming back. My issue is him coming back trying to play the same way. It's not gonna work anymore at his age. Again, just look at what happened in the playoffs. Turnovers due to rhythm is one thing. Turnover after turnover over forcing things that just aren't there is another.

I felt like I was watching Romo during the play-in game against Phili a few years back. My god romo just wouldn't stop forcing and turning it over it became laughable to the point you were saying to yourself, "man how stupid is this guy!?"

And no I'm not comparing a three time champion to Romo, I'm just saying Manus play has gotten so bad that that's what it reminded me of. Sad.

At this point you at least have to trust the team to know what they're doing as far as maximizing what vets can do. Tim's role was transformed from back to the basket game into a jump shooting game, and damn it worked.

I know people are caught up with the last memory, but outside of RJ, the FO has done a damn good job of maximizing what they have.

They also had no qualms of letting guys go when they thought they didn't have enough anymore. Horry or even Bowen comes to mind.

[Johnny RIngo]

Tim deserves all the credit, because what's he doing at 37 is unheard of, losing weight or not. Pop deserves credit too, because he changed TD's role to be more of a jumpshooter and extend his shelf life.

But that's the difference between knee jerk spursfan and the FO. The FO understand what they have and how they can still make it work. Reactionary spursfan gets caught up in the moment and just want 'change', whatever that brings.

Tim is a professional and actually rests/prepares for the NBA in the off-season while Ginobili/Parker selfishly end up playing shitty FIBA ball. Hard to respect those two when they put their national team on a higher priority than the club that made them stars.

[ElNono]

Tim is a professional and actually rests/prepares for the NBA in the off-season while Ginobili/Parker selfishly end up playing shitty FIBA ball. Hard to respect those two when they put their national team on a higher priority than the club that made them stars.

Manu already shunned the NT once, and he already said he won't play for the NT this summer either...

Plus I don't buy that line of thinking... Kobe is not a professional? They're all competitors, tbh...

[UZER]

At this point you at least have to trust the team to know what they're doing as far as maximizing what vets can do. Tim's role was transformed from back to the basket game into a jump shooting game, and damn it worked.

I know people are caught up with the last memory, but outside of RJ, the FO has done a damn good job of maximizing what they have.

They also had no qualms of letting guys go when they thought they didn't have enough anymore. Horry or even Bowen comes to mind.

I've said before, Manu has said plenty of times, this is who I am this is how I play. If that's not gonna change, then no thank you. If the front office can truly get a hold of him and his game, and he's willing to change his game, then he deserves to finish his career with the spurs. Granted that's also at a severely reduced salary. He at least owes the franchise that for giving him the green light on playing for Argentina year after year to the detriment of of their franchise.

[Johnny RIngo]

Manu already shunned the NT once, and he already said he won't play for the NT this summer either...

Yes and he deserved all the respect in the world for that decision. Unfortunately, his Argy fanbase guilt tripped him into playing more worthless international basketball at the expense of his NBA team.


Plus I don't buy that line of thinking... Kobe is not a professional? They're all competitors, tbh...

Kobe's an ironman while Ginobili's one of the most injury prone players of his era. Even Kobe's body gave out this season. Players in their mid-30s shouldn't be playing year-round basketball.

[ElNono]

I've said before, Manu has said plenty of times, this is who I am this is how I play. If that's not gonna change, then no thank you. If the front office can truly get a hold of him and his game, and he's willing to change his game, then he deserves to finish his career with the spurs. Granted that's also at a severely reduced salary. He at least owes the franchise that for giving him the green light on playing for Argentina year after year to the detriment of of their franchise.

His competitiveness isn't going to change, but his game and role in the team already changed a few times, based on what Pop thought he needed... backup SG, starting SG, energy guy from the bench, backup PG...

[spurtech09]

manu just doesn't have it anymore...time to retire

[ElNono]

Yes and he deserved all the respect in the world for that decision. Unfortunately, his Argy fanbase guilt tripped him into playing more worthless international basketball at the expense of his NBA team.

Well, if anything, he's fully aware of his limitations...


Kobe's an ironman while Ginobili's one of the most injury prone players of his era. Even Kobe's body gave out this season. Players in their mid-30s shouldn't be playing year-round basketball.

If you go by what Kobe says, he's injured every two weeks, tbh... :lol

Kobe couldn't walk when the season ended... that doesn't mean he's not a professional. These guys are simply competitors, and they know they don't get many more chances at glory. Same with TP.

It's the double-edged sword. If they wouldn't be that hungry they wouldn't be who they are.

[Johnny RIngo]

If you go by what Kobe says, he's injured every two weeks, tbh... :lol

Kobe couldn't walk when the season ended... that doesn't mean he's not a professional.

The Kobe comparison is a bad one. He's played at least 34+ minutes(sometimes 40 minutes) per game every season for the last 15 years. Ginobili's only cracked 30 minutes/game twice in his career. Some guys have the durablity for year round ball. Ginobili is not among those players. He struggles with playing 20 min/game these days and has a big injury nearly every year. It was idiotic on his part to play for Argentina when they had no chance of winning anyway.


These guys are simply competitors, and they know they don't get many more chances at glory. Same with TP.

It's the double-edged sword. If they wouldn't be that hungry they wouldn't be who they are.

Tim gave up international ball almost ten years ago. Does he not count as a competitor either?

[ElNono]

The Kobe comparison is a bad one. He's played at least 34+ minutes(sometimes 40 minutes) per game every season for the last 15 years. Ginobili's only cracked 30 minutes/game twice in his career. Some guys have the durablity for year round ball. Ginobili is not among those players. He struggles with playing 20 min/game these days and has a big injury nearly every year. It was idiotic on his part to play for Argentina when they had no chance of winning anyway.

The comparison is apt when you equate playing in international play with not being professional. It's a terrible strawman.


Tim gave up international ball almost ten years ago. Does he not count as a competitor either?

Tim gave up international play because he didn't like it. Why would he want to compete there if he doesn't enjoy it?

At the end of the day, the Spurs greatly reaped the benefits of foreign players, and still do, (TP, Manu, Oberto, Tiago, Mills, Banes, DeColo, etc) fully aware they all like to compete in international play.

[Skull-1]

I've said before, Manu has said plenty of times, this is who I am this is how I play. If that's not gonna change, then no thank you. If the front office can truly get a hold of him and his game, and he's willing to change his game, then he deserves to finish his career with the spurs. Granted that's also at a severely reduced salary. He at least owes the franchise that for giving him the green light on playing for Argentina year after year to the detriment of of their franchise.

Exactly. Dude needs to learn to stop throwing the fing ball to empty space or the other team. THERE IS NO EXCUSE FOR THAT.


AND TO HAVE YOUR HIGHEST CAREER TURNOVER GAME IN G6 OF THE FINALS? WTFO?!?!!!!

[Skull-1]

The comparison is apt when you equate playing in international play with not being professional. It's a terrible strawman.



Tim gave up international play because he didn't like it. Why would he want to compete there if he doesn't enjoy it?

At the end of the day, the Spurs greatly reaped the benefits of foreign players, and still do, (TP, Manu, Oberto, Tiago, Mills, Banes, DeColo, etc) fully aware they all like to compete in international play.

Screw that. Spurs pay the salary not the damn loser national teams who will always lose to the dream team. Argentina gold was an outlier.

[ElNono]

Screw that. Spurs pay the salary not the damn loser national teams who will always lose to the dream team. Argentina gold was an outlier.

:lol these guys are one in a million talent. If the Spurs aren't paying their salaries, some other team is. The Spurs knew exactly what they were getting into when they signed these guys, and since they keep signing then, you would suspect they're willing to live with it.

[Skull-1]

:lol these guys are one in a million talent. If the Spurs aren't paying their salaries, some other team is. The Spurs knew exactly what they were getting into when they signed these guys, and since they keep signing then, you would suspect they're willing to live with it.

Well I am not willing to pay millions for Parker and Diaw and Manu to not even medal in the Olympics. Screw that. We lost a title because these azzhats forgot who signs the check...

[ElNono]

Well I am not willing to pay millions for Parker and Diaw and Manu to not even medal in the Olympics. Screw that. We lost a title because these azzhats forgot who signs the check...

Well, you're not writing the checks, so it's a moot point.

[Skull-1]

Well, you're not writing the checks, so it's a moot point.


I write a percentage with all the Spurs stuff I buy so actually the only moot point is your dumb azz...

[ElNono]

I write a percentage with all the Spurs stuff I buy so actually the only moot point is your dumb azz...

:lol RC Bufford doesn't stop for one second to think what 'stuff' you bought before making basketball decisions... he probably wouldn't even piss on you if you were on fire...

[therealtruth]

I'll never forget that Manu's breakfast shot was probably the biggest reason why we overcame Golden State but Manu's pathetic performance in the NBA finals upsets everything good he did earlier.

We were going to lose the Warriors series till Pop reinserts Splitter in the lineup. Then we were going to win the Heat series until Pop pulls Splitter out of the lineup.

[Skull-1]

:lol RC Bufford doesn't stop for one second to think what 'stuff' you bought before making basketball decisions... he probably wouldn't even piss on you if you were on fire...


And your point is what exactly?


There are thousands or millions of us who foot the bill buying tickets and jerseys and stickers. I am sick of people playing for their Olympic teams at the expense of our championship chase. Buford will care when it hits Holt in the wallet you moronic b-tch.

[Skull-1]

We were going to lose the Warriors series till Pop reinserts Splitter in the lineup. Then we were going to win the Heat series until Pop pulls Splitter out of the lineup.


That is some reality right there.

[texmich]

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_ma5sxbAJF71rsrytp.gif

[temujin]

And your point is what exactly?


There are thousands or millions of us who foot the bill buying tickets and jerseys and stickers. I am sick of people playing for their Olympic teams at the expense of our championship chase. Buford will care when it hits Holt in the wallet you moronic b-tch.

:lol

Manu winning those medals while being payed by you.

Priceless.

:lol

[Skull-1]

:lol

Manu winning those medals while being payed by you.

Priceless.

:lol

And screwing me over this year. I should burn all the jerseys I have with his name on them. The little communist Argentinian loser just screwed us out of a championship. At least win a bronze medal in exchange u clown!

[ElNono]

And your point is what exactly?

There are thousands or millions of us who foot the bill buying tickets and jerseys and stickers. I am sick of people playing for their Olympic teams at the expense of our championship chase. Buford will care when it hits Holt in the wallet you moronic b-tch.

This sport is about winning and success. There would be a lot less fans otherwise, and heck, maybe not even a team in San Antonio otherwise.

The Spurs understand that they can't just go wallet-happy in a small market, and also understand that there's great value in mining international talent, despite certain drawbacks. They're fully aware of what those drawbacks are, and they still feel they're getting good value. It's hard to argue looking at the results.

But that's why the Spurs run a model franchise while you post tantrums on the interwebs, tbh... :lol

[Skull-1]

This sport is about winning and success. There would be a lot less fans otherwise, and heck, maybe not even a team in San Antonio otherwise.

The Spurs understand that they can't just go wallet-happy in a small market, and also understand that there's great value in mining international talent, despite certain drawbacks. They're fully aware of what those drawbacks are, and they still feel they're getting good value. It's hard to argue looking at the results.

But that's why the Spurs run a model franchise while you post tantrums on the interwebs, tbh... :lol


Yet they are so smart they can't see what my ten-year old daughter sees.... That Manu was killing us. She kept screaming MICHAEL JACKSON every time Leonard was on the screen and OH NO every time Manu was...


You can see her at the end of the 2007 Championship DVD in her pink Manu jersey just before the credits....using her hands as binoculars....

even she could see Manu was sucking. Does Buford not talk to Pop?

wtf?

[ElNono]

Yet they are so smart they can't see what my ten-year old daughter sees.... That Manu was killing us. She kept screaming MICHAEL JACKSON every time Leonard was on the screen and OH NO every time Manu was...

You can see her at the end of the 2007 Championship DVD in her pink Manu jersey just before the credits....using her hands as binoculars....

even she could see Manu was sucking. Does Buford not talk to Pop?

wtf?

They've been trying to find a suitable backup PG all season long. They obviously feel they needed something there. None of the suitors stepped up, so they rolled with what they have.

What are they gonna do? Have Neal dribble the ball against that beast trap?

The Spurs played a team with 4 franchise or former franchise players (Lebron, Wade, Bosh, Allen). The talent gap is ridiculous, and the fact we were able to push them to the brink is certainly no consolation at this mere moment, but in time people will realize how tough is to beat a team like that.

[Slippy]

glad to see he not planning on retiring . When manu wasn't scoring he contributed so many other ways positively. Far outweighs the negatives.

Spurs certainly don't have any ready made players to come in, give them the same play-making ability Manu and Tony offer.

People want to see KY grow, then having manu on board is a must. KY's game will suffer if he no feeding off guys like Manu. Same goes if you want to see the system click offensively .

[Skull-1]

They've been trying to find a suitable backup PG all season long. They obviously feel they needed something there. None of the suitors stepped up, so they rolled with what they have.

What are they gonna do? Have Neal dribble the ball against that beast trap?

The Spurs played a team with 4 franchise or former franchise players (Lebron, Wade, Bosh, Allen). The talent gap is ridiculous, and the fact we were able to push them to the brink is certainly no consolation at this mere moment, but in time people will realize how tough is to beat a team like that.

neal sucks on the dribble when pressured but apparently Manu cannot dribble when he isn't pressured!

manu blew it. No excuses. Serious mental diarrhea.....cost us a ring.

[ElNono]

neal sucks on the dribble when pressured but apparently Manu cannot dribble when he isn't pressured!

manu blew it. No excuses. Serious mental diarrhea.....cost us a ring.

Apparently Manu can play like a god the game before, and then be an absolute turd. That's new.

Neal being unable to dribble a basket, that's not new at all.

Manu definitely blew it in Game 6, and he had overall a poor series. I'm not going to excuse any of that.

But the Spurs have definitely been trying to address the backup PG situation unsuccessfully for at least a season now.

[Skull-1]

Apparently Manu can play like a god the game before, and then be an absolute turd. That's new.

Neal being unable to dribble a basket, that's not new at all.

Manu definitely blew it in Game 6, and he had overall a poor series. I'm not going to excuse any of that.

But the Spurs have definitely been trying to address the backup PG situation unsuccessfully for at least a season now.

IF MANU PLAYS SMART IT ISN'T AN ISSUE. He can't control himself...at all....

[ElNono]

IF MANU PLAYS SMART IT ISN'T AN ISSUE. He can't control himself...at all....

He had a poor series... it happens...

[spurraider21]

They've been trying to find a suitable backup PG all season long. They obviously feel they needed something there. None of the suitors stepped up, so they rolled with what they have.

What are they gonna do? Have Neal dribble the ball against that beast trap?

The Spurs played a team with 4 franchise or former franchise players (Lebron, Wade, Bosh, Allen). The talent gap is ridiculous, and the fact we were able to push them to the brink is certainly no consolation at this mere moment, but in time people will realize how tough is to beat a team like that.
this. the spurs were shuffling their backup pg's all year. Mills got some run an flopped. Neal got some run but was VERY limited as a pg and usually was only out there if babysat by Manu who could handle the ball. at one point Pop actually declared Nando the backup pg but he fell apart soon after. CoJo came along nicely, but wasn't ready for an overaggressive Heat defense. It's not like Pop wanted Manu to be taking over backup PG duties, but nobody else stepped up when given the opportunity. i don't blame Manu for not being a great point guard when he has been a shooting guard his entire career. he did play a lousy series for the most part, but he's the reason we won game 5 to go up 3-2 and he played his azz off in game 7 as well, until the turnover parade in the 4th. he still ended up with 18 points on 6-12 shooting with 5 assists and 4 turnovers. thats not bad at all.

[Skull-1]

He had a poor series... it happens...

He had a poor playoffs. He shat himself.

[ElNono]

this. the spurs were shuffling their backup pg's all year. Mills got some run an flopped. Neal got some run but was VERY limited as a pg and usually was only out there if babysat by Manu who could handle the ball. at one point Pop actually declared Nando the backup pg but he fell apart soon after. CoJo came along nicely, but wasn't ready for an overaggressive Heat defense. It's not like Pop wanted Manu to be taking over backup PG duties, but nobody else stepped up when given the opportunity. i don't blame Manu for not being a great point guard when he has been a shooting guard his entire career. he did play a lousy series for the most part, but he's the reason we won game 5 to go up 3-2 and he played his azz off in game 7 as well, until the turnover parade in the 4th. he still ended up with 18 points on 6-12 shooting with 5 assists and 4 turnovers. thats not bad at all.

I dunno. I'm going to stop buying 'stuff' to send a message to RC, IMO. I mean, he made a 10 year old kid shout OH NO! That's flat out mean right there.

[james evans]

we need to start a "don't resign ginobli" petition. cuz there is no way in HELL i want that mf back

[DAF86]

I almost wish he would sign with another team just so these fucking ungrateful faggots would realize how good Manu is. Almost.

[ElNono]

I almost wish he would sign with another team just so these fucking ungrateful faggots would realize how good Manu is. Almost.

At this point, I'm actually hoping he decides to come back just to see the absolute meltdown by some peeps around here, tbh...

[TheGoldStandard]

He's working on his 30 foot jumper right now.

[davidbowie]

I almost wish he would sign with another team just so these fucking ungrateful faggots would realize how good Manu is. Almost.

It's been two days since we lost the most heartbreaking series of the organizations existence. Everyone is still salty and pissed and wants someone to blame. Manu is the easy target. 90% of the fans still love Manu.

[DAF86]

Manu with the right role (off the ball guard at this point in his career) and the right price is one of the best assest a contender could hope for.

[texmich]

If true gonna be a long season guys, better hit up Deanos, specs or whatever the fuck http://ed_wp-content_v2.s3.amazonaws.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/drinking1.gif

[temujin]

Manu with the right role (off the ball guard at this point in his career) and the right price is one of the best assest a contender could hope for.

Exactly.

So why on earth should he decide to be back with the Spurs, again?

[temujin]

And screwing me over this year. I should burn all the jerseys I have with his name on them. The little communist Argentinian loser just screwed us out of a championship. At least win a bronze medal in exchange u clown!

:lol

What part are you having in the Spurs organization, EXACTLY??

:lol

[Tim_duncan21]

Manu should return

[doobs]

I would like to see Manu come back, but the Spurs should shut him down until March and then only play him 15 minutes. Dude was tired and broken.

he still has some good stuff left. But the Spurs can afford to lean on Leonard and Green a bit more.

[cheguevara]

Vet Minimum

Thanks for the memories but his skill level fell off the cliff after the all star break.

He is still a game changer but not in a good way.

[hater]

He's done. time to call it a career

[hater]

If true gonna be a long season guys, better hit up Deanos, specs or whatever the fuck http://ed_wp-content_v2.s3.amazonaws.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/drinking1.gif

:lol

cosign

[Josepatches_]

I almost wish he would sign with another team just so these fucking ungrateful faggots would realize how good Manu is. Almost.

Or how good he was.

But yeah so many fucking ungrateful faggots. Manu didn't deserve it. He was a really big part in 3 titles and good seasons. He could be old,injured or whatever you want but it's Pop who plays him and he's putting the effort on the court. He's not the same but It's life.

I can't understand this bullshit.

[superbigtime]

Or how good he was.

But yeah so many fucking ungrateful faggots. Manu didn't deserve it. He was a really big part in 3 titles and good seasons. He could be old,injured or whatever you want but it's Pop who plays him and he's putting the effort on the court. He's not the same but It's life.

I can't understand this bullshit.

People ARE grateful for what Manu has done, of course. The problem is that he cannot do those things any more, not with consistency. He's always injured. His play is erratic. It's become increasingly difficult for him to overcome his shortcomings, that he is no longer able to. It's that simple.