NBA Legacies Transition All Wrong (Old players winning, young ones not)

[Gino-Step]

No one is building 'legendary' careers. We're not just talking about who can surpass MJ here... I'm saying in general this league's transition is fked.

too many championships last few years going into the hands of mid 30's type players which is just leading to this giant hole of 'transcendent' players once the old guys retire.

ie, Duncan, KG, Pierce, Kobe, Dirk winning the last few years instead of a Carmelo, Durant, Chris Paul, Dwight Howard. Heck even LeBron with only 1 and Wade only 2.

This entire class of 2000 something's wasted their 20's in terms of collecting rings.

Contrast that to Duncan and Kobe winning early, Manu having 3 rings by 30 despite entering the league at almost 26. Parker having 3 rings by 25.

this league is going to suddenly be very empty as see the mid to late 90's players retire or on verge of retirement

Other than LeBron to market, the biggest 'star' with a ring under 30 years old is 'Chris Bosh'. :lol NBA

[KaiRMD1]

What about Chalmers? He got a ring under 30

[Gino-Step]

What about Chalmers? He got a ring under 30

Forgot about the superstar that is Mario Chalmers. Also I suppose I left out Rajon Rondo.....

This league is dead. Wasted marketing money on DHow, CP3, DRose, KDurant, RWestbrook, DWilliams, BGriffin, even LeBron approaching 30 with 1 ring. league = fked.

[Asif Ali Zardari]

I agree.

A Spurs vs. Pacers Finals could be the nail in the coffin for the NBA.

[Mr. Body]

There hasn't been a lot of supreme talent coming in for a while. It won't be the end of the league, but they need a super wave soon.

[Man In Black]

They need to learn how to push TEAMS instead of just STARS. Should LBJ's team FAIL to beat Indy, then it's the NBA and their TV Partners(Especially the 4-letter) that have no one to blame except themselves for marketing all those individuals and then watching them FAIL with their HEROBALL tactics against real TEAMS.

[racm]

They need to learn how to push TEAMS instead of just STARS. Should LBJ's team FAIL to beat Indy, then it's the NBA and their TV Partners(Especially the 4-letter) that have no one to blame except themselves for marketing all those individuals and then watching them FAIL with their HEROBALL tactics against real TEAMS.

Man In Black with the dagger three pointers after starting 1-14 goods

[ElNono]

Hard to win when you don't even want to suit up and the prefer the gangbanger lifestyle, tbh...

[Asif Ali Zardari]

They need to learn how to push TEAMS instead of just STARS. Should LBJ's team FAIL to beat Indy, then it's the NBA and their TV Partners(Especially the 4-letter) that have no one to blame except themselves for marketing all those individuals and then watching them FAIL with their HEROBALL tactics against real TEAMS.

The NBA tried to market the Spurs throughout the decade but it failed. Star players make teams entertaining, regardless of marketing ploys. The Spurs have boring stars and it has nothing to do with the NBA's marketing.

[jdiggy0424]

Lets face it Kobe, Shaq and Duncan are all top 10 players of all time. Gonna be hard to win in any era with those guys playing

[Arcadian]

Well, did you really expect this generation to surpass the older generation? I knew they wouldn't. The older generation was just legendary...there might never be a generation with so many superstars again. Duncan, Shaq, Kobe, Garnett, Dirk, Nash, Kidd, Iverson...all in one generation.

[Capt Bringdown]

The NBA peaked during the 80's, and has been going downhill ever since. NBA marketing tries to convince you that you're watching the best that ever was, but I'm not buying it.
Everybody's a one-trick pony these days, included our beloved Spurs to a certain degree. Seems to me those 80's teams had incredible versatility and were frankly more fun to watch from a basketball purist perspective.

[Man In Black]

The NBA tried to market the Spurs throughout the decade but it failed. Star players make teams entertaining, regardless of marketing ploys. The Spurs have boring stars and it has nothing to do with the NBA's marketing.
It's laughable that a Lakerfan actually thinks he understands something like Small Market Dynamics.
So, when you say that the NBA tried to market the Spurs, what exactly do you have to show as proof?
It has nothing to do with them being perceived as boring, that's a label that the 4letter latched onto and they are the primary reason that the ratings drop when star players fail with their teams.

Again-It has nothing to do with them as personalities. They talk on Jim Rome every season, and now because they whupped ass on every team they've played so far, The 4 letter is forced to play catchup and talk to the team and do profiles. They've already done 2 profiles with Tony Parker.
The real reason and I've said this time and again is explained by TP...NATIONALISM.

Nationalism defined:
Loyalty and devotion to a nation; especially : a sense of national consciousness exalting one nation above all others and placing primary emphasis on promotion of its culture and interests as opposed to those of other nations or supranational groups.

In short, the media would rather tell you that American Stars are dominating the NBA then tell you that a team of Internationals including Americans, are laying the hurt on the league. It goes against their constant promotion of the E for Entertainment in their 4 letter name. Except for Tennis and perhaps Golf, the 4-letter doesn't promote any Internationals higher than they do American athletes. It's easy in individual sports. For team sports, they don't offer the same kind of coverage. Even in something like Hockey, they ADOPT the Canadians as if they are almost American. North America gets more love than South America, although it's funny if this was 4 letter Deportes, then the shift happens and they talk to the South Americans all the time. The 4 letter knows demographics.

Again, TP has told us all why he thinks the Spurs are often overlooked.

TP: ‘I think the fact that me and Manu are international players, I don’t think we get the same respect. Because we’re not from America, I think that’s why we’re not considered up there with the Bostons, or the Lakers or Chicago.’ http://www.slamonline.com/online/nba/2010/10/tim-duncan-we-dont-get-that-respect/

Which is then backed up by this observation.

For years I've heard that if the Spurs played in New York Duncan/Ginobili/Parker would be endorsement superstars. San Antonio is only the 37th-biggest TV market. Yet Oklahoma City is 45th, and last year Kevin Durant, Russell Westbrook and James Harden might as well have played in New York as they landed so many national ads.

Maybe it isn't so much about where the Spurs play as much as where their stars are from. Duncan grew up in the Virgin Islands and rarely shows emotion. Parker's father played basketball at Loyola of Chicago then professionally overseas, where he met Tony's mother, a Dutch model -- and Tony was raised in France (as were teammates Diaw and Nando de Colo). Ginobili is from Argentina, Splitter from Brazil.
http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/9325451/spurs-back

[spurraider21]

Lets face it Kobe, Shaq and Duncan are all top 10 players of all time. Gonna be hard to win in any era with those guys playing
people rag on wilt because "he played against nobodies" but nobody ever brings up the fact that shaq in his early years (from 93-97) was constantly outplayed by hakeem, robinson. in shaq's prime when he was winning rings, who was his main competition at center? Divac? in the playoffs he went up against the fossils of robinson, divac, sabonis. in his finals series he went up against smits, fossillized mutombo, tod macculoch, and eric dampier

this is why i dont have shaq in my top 10 (some have him in the top 5 rofl)

[Asif Ali Zardari]

Duncan played for team USA and was a collegiate superstar. That's a stupid excuse:lmao.

He's American and he's been one of the most successful stars ever. They've tried to push him since he entered the league but the media and fans just don't give a shit about his boring personality and game.

Popovich was born in Indiana and served in the US Air Force. He should be easier to market than Phil Jackson but he coaches a boring team that hurt basketball for most of the decade.

Sorry but that's a lame excuse.

[WeNeedLength]

Duncan played for team USA and was a collegiate superstar. That's a stupid excuse:lmao.

He's American and he's been one of the most successful stars ever. They've tried to push him since he entered the league but the media and fans just don't give a shit about his boring personality and game.

Popovich was born in Indiana and served in the US Air Force. He should be easier to market than Phil Jackson but he coaches a boring team that hurt basketball for most of the decade.

Sorry but that's a lame excuse.

:cry

[Asif Ali Zardari]

people rag on wilt because "he played against nobodies" but nobody ever brings up the fact that shaq in his early years (from 93-97) was constantly outplayed by hakeem, robinson. in shaq's prime when he was winning rings, who was his main competition at center? Divac? in the playoffs he went up against the fossils of robinson, divac, sabonis. in his finals series he went up against smits, fossillized mutombo, tod macculoch, and eric dampier

this is why i dont have shaq in my top 10 (some have him in the top 5 rofl)

Agreed. I would put Shaq in my top 15 but not in the top 10.

1. Michael Jordan
2. Kobe Bryant
3. Magic Johnson
4. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
5. Wilt Chamberlain
6. Bill Russell
7. Larry Bird
8. Oscar Robertson
9. Jerry West
10. Tim Duncan
11. Hakeem Olajuwon
12. Moses Malone
13. Shaq
14. Kevin Garnett
15. Dirk Nowitzki
16. Scottie Pippen
17. Dr. J
18. Elgin Baylor
19. Charles Barkley
20. Karl Malone

[spurraider21]

Agreed. I would put Shaq in my top 15 but not in the top 10.

1. Michael Jordan
2. Kobe Bryant
3. Magic Johnson
4. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
5. Wilt Chamberlain
6. Bill Russell
7. Larry Bird
8. Oscar Robertson
9. Jerry West
10. Tim Duncan
11. Hakeem Olajuwon
12. Moses Malone
13. Shaq
14. Kevin Garnett
15. Dirk Nowitzki
16. Scottie Pippen
17. Dr. J
18. Elgin Baylor
19. Charles Barkley
20. Karl Malone

i'd take wilt/kareem/tim over bird/magic. i'm not even going to get into kobe. besides, not worth arguing with a troll account

[AaronY]

people rag on wilt because "he played against nobodies" but nobody ever brings up the fact that shaq in his early years (from 93-97) was constantly outplayed by hakeem, robinson. in shaq's prime when he was winning rings, who was his main competition at center? Divac? in the playoffs he went up against the fossils of robinson, divac, sabonis. in his finals series he went up against smits, fossillized mutombo, tod macculoch, and eric dampier

this is why i dont have shaq in my top 10 (some have him in the top 5 rofl)
Troof bombs. You have also consider the fact that Shaqs numbers both advanced and regular were just about the same in the mid to late 90s compared to the threepeat years..his second year stats are practically to the stats from his MVP..it's almost eery how similar those two seasons are beside a decent uptick in assists

[jdiggy0424]

Shaq is an interesting case because while you are correct in the fact that he was outplayed by other great centers of his era, he was more concerned about being a celebrity and getting rich with his skill set without actually working on his game. In a sense LA was the perfect fit for him and everything he ever wanted: media, the spotlight, the endorsements, movie deals, etc.

It was only until later in his career that he matured and realized that the only way he was going to be remembered as one of the most dominant big men ever was to work on his game and not eat McDonalds every day in the offseason.

It is widely agreed that while he coasted on his physical gifts early on in his career, his best seasons were during the Lakers championship runs. When he won his first MVP, it's was the first year he actually gave a shit about being a dominant big man and being remembered as an all time great.

He also helped blossom the careers of Kobe, Wade, and early on Penny Hardaway (before all his injuries). If I had to put a number on where he ranks all time he would be listed at #10, based of his resume and stats.

One can't help but wonder what if? for Shaq, as in "What if he was just as motivated during his MVP year for his entire career?"

[jdiggy0424]

My all time list as follows:

1. MJ
2. Bill Russell
3. Kareem
4. Wilt
5. Magic Johnson
6. Larry Bird
7. Tim Duncan
8. Kobe
9. Shaq
10. Jerry west

[davethedope]

I don't entirely agree with the op's premise. Shaq and MJ are perfect examples of careers which, championship-wise, were in stasis while an older generation continued to dominate. Too much remains of the older generation of stars, and they're simply on better more mature teams.

But it seems after the laker 3peat ushered in a flush of all the old talent in the league.

I will always consider that era immediately post the lockout as a new start, as is this year.

I don't even really count last year or its champion as legit. I don't care how many games were played.

[DMC]

Casual NBA fan, the ones that spend the money, don't buy based on rings. They buy based on media hype. If it was about rings, Lebron wouldn't have sold a jersey before last year.

[PingPong]

The Spurs lacks panache...

[jag]

Man In Black with the dagger three pointers after starting 1-14 goods

:lol

Dat nigga racm is underrated. I celebrate his entire catalog.

[Gino-Step]

I just don't know how the NBA can market the belief that as the alpha, Carmelo, Paul, Dwight, KD, Blake, Harden, Curry can win championships. Other than Lebron, is there another under 30 guy that you can market as this dude is sick. He can lead you to a title? Nope.

In the old days, you had KG Duncan Dirk Shaq Kobe as legitimate people that you felt like had a chance or had proven to have won a title.

Nba is much more advanced metrics. Unless the NBA starts marketing teams and strategy and play calling, they are fked. Cause star / hero ball is going to come up shorter and shorter as teams get more efficient.

[Man In Black]

Sorry LAL bandwagon, you lost what little credibility you had when you listed Kobe at #2. Again, you can say what you want about Tim, Youtube has lots of commercials that he has done early on, and stuff like that had fans all over the world voting him as a perennial starter. But that international thing is real, that's why Tony said it. I didn't say it, Tony Parker said it.

How would LAL bandwagon know thing one about Pop? And hurt basketball for most of the decade how exactly, by winning consistently and often?

If the Spurs were the New York Knicks and they did everything in exactly the same way, they'd get way more pub just because they are in Media central. The Nationalism wouldn't happen as much because the media can choose to report it the way they like, magnify the winning while lessening the fact that Tony & Manu and much of the Spurs, at times are INTERNATIONAL.

True story, if you look at the official list of International Players in the NBA, You'll find Tim Duncan on the list. Also, if the USVI had a senior Men's team at the time Tim was playing, he would have went USVI, except if Pop was coaching Team USA
http://www.nba.com/global/international_players_rosters_2012_10_30.html
Check it, even the NBA has Tim listed as an International.


You're LAME and I don't mind telling you so.

[Arcadian]

2. Kobe Bryant


:lol Your opinion is now invalidated.

As for Tim and his "boring" personality, this is based on a fallacy. Tim has one of the most unique personalities in the NBA. He's different. If he were an ordinary, run-of-the-mill, showboating faggot like most NBA players, then he'd be boring. But he's different, therefore he's not boring.