How will Lakers fans feel if Duncan gets 5?

[Pelicans78]

No more 5>4? 5=5.

Discuss

[Mal]

This troll is long banned

[whitemamba]

wouldnt mind to see Jim get one more, unlike the majority of the ass hurt spur fans around here who hate kobe, i have a mutual respect for duncan, This probably being their real last shot at getting that 5th ring, i would give congrats to spur fan, and credit where credit is due.

[LkrFan]

:lol - Like Tony the Tiger, I'd feel ggggrrrrrrreeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaaatttt! I'd rather see TD get #5 than LBJ get #2. Sure, I'd like to keep messing with you farmers, but I despise LBJ and would love to see that jackass have 1 Finals win** and 3 Finals losses

** Denotes strike shortened season and did not repeat as a champion

Now stop making these thread already. :lol

[dfens]

might put a prayer for Jim to stop the usurper.

[JamStone]

I'm surprised by the responses so far. I would imagine more Laker fans would prefer the Heat over the Spurs. I think LeBron getting multiple titles and multiple FMVPs is inevitable. If he doesn't do it this year, there's still a good chance he will in following seasons, and multiple times. He's probably got a good 7-8 years left of dominating the league. But the one thing Laker fans have over Spurs fans is the 5>4 with Kobe over Duncan. And Duncan doesn't have many more chances to get #5. This could be his last chance.

It may be a lesser of two evils, but deep down I think most Laker fans already know that LeBron will eventually surpass Kobe. In fact, LeBron probably already has surpassed Kobe. He just needs multiple titles and multiple FMVPs to validate it without question. IMO, LeBron cements his place as a top 5 player with his second title and second FMVP. And I think with a third title (maybe even without a FMVP), and he's top 2 with Jordan. And I think it's inevitable, barring a catastrophic career ending injury. So the Heat losing is only holding off the inevitable for Laker fans. But maybe that last thread of hope is what they'll cling on to.

But for Laker fans, 5>4 is something they can hang onto with Duncan if the Spurs don't win. That's probably better for them, because if the Spurs win then Duncan and Kobe both have 5 and LeBron will probably get his multiple titles/FMVP in the future anyway.

[DeadlyDynasty]

Duncan`s a cool dude despite the cuck factor...i have no issue with the Spurs team, but their fans are by and large insufferable yet easily trollable crybabies. A few on this site are chill people, but the majority are an embarrassment to the human race.

[DarrinS]

Why do laker fans hate LBJ so much? Just curious.

[Bynumite]

Duncan`s a cool dude despite the cuck factor...i have no issue with the Spurs team, but their fans are by and large insufferable yet easily trollable crybabies. A few on this site are chill people, but the majority are an embarrassment to the human race.

Pretty much how i feel. Have nothing against the classy cucks, spurfan on the other hand can eat a dick.

[Trainwreck2100]

Pretty much how i feel. Have nothing against the classy cucks, spurfan on the other hand can eat a dick.

even me???

[Baseline]

LeBron is obviously better than Bryant ever was, so that's why Laker fans hate him. Then again, so is Duncan. But since Duncan has been around for so long, I think even moron Laker fans can appreciate his longevity and consistency...the fact that his team is back in the Finals this year, having swept the Lakers, and their hero will have his foot propped on a purple pillow watching it on a fat plasma screen.

[td4mvp2k]

duncan would be da goat of his nba n lakersfans wouldnt like it cuz they wouldnt have dat

[dunkman]

Guessing the sexual orientation of their fan base, they will talk something like the great Kobe didn't play vs the Spurs, so its *.

[Double-Up]

You motherfuckers won't have to worry about hearing about the TSOB...

[ShowtimeFan]

I'm surprised by the responses so far. I would imagine more Laker fans would prefer the Heat over the Spurs. I think LeBron getting multiple titles and multiple FMVPs is inevitable. If he doesn't do it this year, there's still a good chance he will in following seasons, and multiple times. He's probably got a good 7-8 years left of dominating the league. But the one thing Laker fans have over Spurs fans is the 5>4 with Kobe over Duncan. And Duncan doesn't have many more chances to get #5. This could be his last chance.

It may be a lesser of two evils, but deep down I think most Laker fans already know that LeBron will eventually surpass Kobe. In fact, LeBron probably already has surpassed Kobe. He just needs multiple titles and multiple FMVPs to validate it without question. IMO, LeBron cements his place as a top 5 player with his second title and second FMVP. And I think with a third title (maybe even without a FMVP), and he's top 2 with Jordan. And I think it's inevitable, barring a catastrophic career ending injury. So the Heat losing is only holding off the inevitable for Laker fans. But maybe that last thread of hope is what they'll cling on to.

But for Laker fans, 5>4 is something they can hang onto with Duncan if the Spurs don't win. That's probably better for them, because if the Spurs win then Duncan and Kobe both have 5 and LeBron will probably get his multiple titles/FMVP in the future anyway.

I'm as surprised as you by the Laker responses. There was another thread recently on this very topic and I said the obvious choice for Lakers fans should be F the Spurs. Has nothing to do with 5>4, just F the Spurs. Sure it's understandable for Kobe fan to hate Lebron and get all insecure, but real Laker fans? First of all, F the Celtics then F the Spurs.

[ShowtimeFan]

Ok, so maybe it has a little to do with 5>4! :lol

[DPG21920]

I'm surprised by the responses so far. I would imagine more Laker fans would prefer the Heat over the Spurs. I think LeBron getting multiple titles and multiple FMVPs is inevitable. If he doesn't do it this year, there's still a good chance he will in following seasons, and multiple times. He's probably got a good 7-8 years left of dominating the league. But the one thing Laker fans have over Spurs fans is the 5>4 with Kobe over Duncan. And Duncan doesn't have many more chances to get #5. This could be his last chance.

It may be a lesser of two evils, but deep down I think most Laker fans already know that LeBron will eventually surpass Kobe. In fact, LeBron probably already has surpassed Kobe. He just needs multiple titles and multiple FMVPs to validate it without question. IMO, LeBron cements his place as a top 5 player with his second title and second FMVP. And I think with a third title (maybe even without a FMVP), and he's top 2 with Jordan. And I think it's inevitable, barring a catastrophic career ending injury. So the Heat losing is only holding off the inevitable for Laker fans. But maybe that last thread of hope is what they'll cling on to.

But for Laker fans, 5>4 is something they can hang onto with Duncan if the Spurs don't win. That's probably better for them, because if the Spurs win then Duncan and Kobe both have 5 and LeBron will probably get his multiple titles/FMVP in the future anyway.

:lol when you wrote this there was like 4 responses. Overwhelmingly LA fans have said they want Tim to lose so Kobe can still be artificially propped up in their minds. This thread has been done about 10 different times and that was the resounding sentiment.

[Raven]

wouldnt mind to see Jim get one more, unlike the majority of the ass hurt spur fans around here who hate kobe, i have a mutual respect for duncan, This probably being their real last shot at getting that 5th ring, i would give congrats to spur fan, and credit where credit is due.

you make it sound like the lakers are not the dark side of sports..

[StrengthAndHonor]

Huge disparity between Laker fans and Kobe fans first, Lakers second tbh.

[ShowtimeFan]

:lol when you wrote this there was like 4 responses. Overwhelmingly LA fans have said they want Tim to lose so Kobe can still be artificially propped up in their minds. This thread has been done about 10 different times and that was the resounding sentiment.

Honestly, I put Duncan at #1 PF of all time and Kobe no higher than 2nd best SG and 3rd best Laker so I'm not doing any "artificial propping". Still, 5>4 is fun and a little catchier than 16>4.

[DMC]

Honestly, I put Duncan at #1 PF of all time and Kobe no higher than 2nd best SG and 3rd best Laker so I'm not doing any "artificial propping". Still, 5>4 is fun and a little catchier than 16>4.

That's because the bulk of Laker fandom is Kobe nut huggers who would be Bieber if they could afford Heat tickets.

[Thebesteva]

No more 5>4? 5=5.

Discuss

It will make me cum so hard inside of Aarony's mother it's not even funny

[StrengthAndHonor]

Everyone on Kobe's camp would rather see Duncan succeed here, because in terms of GOAT list talk, he's an outlier. Jordan, Lebron, Kobe and perhaps Magic are all lumped under the same group, all perimeter guys. As great as KAJ was and Duncan is no one really puts them in the same aforementioned group. They stand under a different platform.



Lebron is the biggest threat to Kobe's legacy, not Duncan. Lebron's body of work is nearing Kobe's and James just passed the halfway mark of his storied career. so there's plenty of room left to surpass considered by many as the greatest perimeter player since Jordan. The only argument Kobe's camp has are his rings. Lebron winning a few titles will completely destroy any argument left.

[Kidd K]

Everyone on Kobe's camp would rather see Duncan succeed here, because in terms of GOAT list talk, he's an outlier. Jordan, Lebron, Kobe and perhaps Magic are all lumped under the same group, all perimeter guys. As great as KAJ was and Duncan is no one really puts them in the same aforementioned group. They stand under a different platform.



Lebron is the biggest threat to Kobe's legacy, not Duncan. Lebron's body of work is nearing Kobe's and James just passed the halfway mark of his storied career. so there's plenty of room left to surpass considered by many as the greatest perimeter player since Jordan. The only argument Kobe's camp has are his rings. Lebron winning a few titles will completely destroy any argument left.

It isn't a different platform though. Nobody looks at the top 10 all time and says, "oh let's make a group for perimeter guys and another one post guys". They are all put together, and Kobe isn't "lumped in the same group" as Jordan, Magic, Kareem and Russell. He is a notch below. Those guys are top 5 GOATs, Kobe is barely in the top 10 around where Bird and Hakeem are (however you want to shuffle them around), and below Shaq, and Duncan imo.

If Duncan wins this year, he will be top 5 imo. His 5 would be worth more than Kobe's 5 easily. Duncan and Shaq's 4 rings are worth more than Kobe's 5 as it is. Rings for annuel all stars don't automatically let players leapfrog others, otherwise Pippen would be the 3rd all time GOAT. It only counts when you're the best player on your team, or at the very least not playing with the best player in the NBA, which Pippen did for 5 of his rings and Kobe did at LEAST for his first two rings, if not the 3rd too (though you could argue Duncan surpassed Shaq by then, Kobe didn't yet).

I know Kobe/Laker fans hate to hear that, but that logic is applied to everyone, not just Kobe. He isn't being singled out. You could penalize Magic for one ring too (his first), but his solid 4 as the best guy still keeps him above just about everyone. Kareem's penalized some too (which is why he isn't the GOAT and Jordan is), but he was so great and won so many MVPs before that, that keeps him above Magic and others imo.

LeBron won't be a threat to Kobe's spot on the GOAT list unless he gets at least 3 rings. Which he's fully capable of of course. But if he only has 2? You can't put him above Kobe even though he was the better player. You still have to win the ttitles.

[Cry Havoc]

I'm surprised by the responses so far. I would imagine more Laker fans would prefer the Heat over the Spurs. I think LeBron getting multiple titles and multiple FMVPs is inevitable. If he doesn't do it this year, there's still a good chance he will in following seasons, and multiple times. He's probably got a good 7-8 years left of dominating the league. But the one thing Laker fans have over Spurs fans is the 5>4 with Kobe over Duncan. And Duncan doesn't have many more chances to get #5. This could be his last chance.

It may be a lesser of two evils, but deep down I think most Laker fans already know that LeBron will eventually surpass Kobe. In fact, LeBron probably already has surpassed Kobe. He just needs multiple titles and multiple FMVPs to validate it without question. IMO, LeBron cements his place as a top 5 player with his second title and second FMVP. And I think with a third title (maybe even without a FMVP), and he's top 2 with Jordan. And I think it's inevitable, barring a catastrophic career ending injury. So the Heat losing is only holding off the inevitable for Laker fans. But maybe that last thread of hope is what they'll cling on to.

But for Laker fans, 5>4 is something they can hang onto with Duncan if the Spurs don't win. That's probably better for them, because if the Spurs win then Duncan and Kobe both have 5 and LeBron will probably get his multiple titles/FMVP in the future anyway.

Laker fans already know that Duncan > Kobe. They think maybe if LeBron loses it this year, the Heat disband and they can hope that LeBron doesn't win more than 1 or 2 more rings, thus opening the debate for who had the better career.

[whitemamba]

Spur fans already know that Duncan > Kobe. They think maybe if LeBron loses it this year, the Heat disband and they can hope that LeBron doesn't win more than 1 or 2 more rings, thus opening the debate for who had the better career.

Fify

[Cry Havoc]

It isn't a different platform though. Nobody looks at the top 10 all time and says, "oh let's make a group for perimeter guys and another one post guys". They are all put together, and Kobe isn't "lumped in the same group" as Jordan, Magic, Kareem and Russell. He is a notch below. Those guys are top 5 GOATs, Kobe is barely in the top 10 around where Bird and Hakeem are (however you want to shuffle them around), and below Shaq, and Duncan imo.

If Duncan wins this year, he will be top 5 imo. His 5 would be worth more than Kobe's 5 easily. Duncan and Shaq's 4 rings are worth more than Kobe's 5 as it is. Rings for annuel all stars don't automatically let players leapfrog others, otherwise Pippen would be the 3rd all time GOAT. It only counts when you're the best player on your team, or at the very least not playing with the best player in the NBA, which Pippen did for 5 of his rings and Kobe did at LEAST for his first two rings, if not the 3rd too (though you could argue Duncan surpassed Shaq by then, Kobe didn't yet).

I know Kobe/Laker fans hate to hear that, but that logic is applied to everyone, not just Kobe. He isn't being singled out. You could penalize Magic for one ring too (his first), but his solid 4 as the best guy still keeps him above just about everyone. Kareem's penalized some too (which is why he isn't the GOAT and Jordan is), but he was so great and won so many MVPs before that, that keeps him above Magic and others imo.

LeBron won't be a threat to Kobe's spot on the GOAT list unless he gets at least 3 rings. Which he's fully capable of of course. But if he only has 2? You can't put him above Kobe even though he was the better player. You still have to win the ttitles.

I have Bird easily in my top five. Probably higher than Magic. Dude averaged 23, 10, and 6.3 assists for his career on 50% shooting. If you were to judge his averages prior to his back giving out, his resume is even more impressive. There's a reason it used to be Jordan vs. Bird.

[Cry Havoc]

Fify

Should I amend that to "Laker fans who count defense as a skill"? Would that be better? :lol

[DeadlyDynasty]

Laker fans already know that Duncan > Kobe. They think maybe if LeBron loses it this year, the Heat disband and they can hope that LeBron doesn't win more than 1 or 2 more rings, thus opening the debate for who had the better career.

I'll donate my left testicle to science if you can go the entire series w/o complaining about the refs or Stern.

[Cry Havoc]

I'll donate my left testicle to science if you can go the entire series w/o complaining about the refs or Stern.

You might be the saltiest person on the entire forum towards me. :lol Pretty funny tbh :lol

[gnsf0946]

I'll donate my left testicle to science if you can go the entire series w/o complaining about the refs or Stern.
you can donate both, it's not like you'll need them tbh

[cheguevara]

you can donate both, it's not like you'll need them tbh

LOL

[Cry Havoc]

you can donate both, it's not like you'll need them tbh

:lol :lol :lol

[DeadlyDynasty]

You might be the saltiest person on the entire forum towards me. :lol Pretty funny tbh :lol

Which one of us cries about the officials and uses his g/f as a shield from koriwhat?

[whitemamba]

I'll donate my left testicle to science if you can go the entire series w/o complaining about the refs or Stern.

:lol

[Cry Havoc]

Which one of us cries about the officials and uses his g/f as a shield from koriwhat?

Dear god, that was like 2 years ago. I thought you Lakers fans only lived in the past regarding basketball. :lol

[Kidd K]

I have Bird easily in my top five. Probably higher than Magic. Dude averaged 23, 10, and 6.3 assists for his career on 50% shooting. If you were to judge his averages prior to his back giving out, his resume is even more impressive. There's a reason it used to be Jordan vs. Bird.

Bird is #8 for me right now. My top 10 is:

Michael Jordan
Bill Russell
Kareem Abdul-Jabaar
Magic Johnson
Wilt Chamberlain
Shaquille O'Neal
Tim Duncan
Larry Bird
Kobe Bryant
Hakeem Olajuwon


And Shaq/Duncan can be flip flopped imo. If Duncan wins again this year, Duncan is cemented above Shaq imo, and I'd honestly have to put him above Wilt too, and I'd start to argue he could be above Magic as well.

I agree that Bird has put up great stats, but so have others and they're not that high. Look at Karl Malone, Moses Malone, our DRob, Patrick Ewing, and other greats. Everyone in the top 10 were amazing, great players. It gets to a point where it's just "take your pick" talent-wise, which is why you have to bring rings into the discussion (in addition to teammates and eras of course).

[jag]

in terms of GOAT list talk...Jordan, Lebron, Kobe and perhaps Magic are all lumped under the same group, all perimeter guys.

:lmao

They may be "lumped" into some imaginary group, but only retarded lakerfans think Kobe should be mentioned on any GOAT list.

[Will Hunting]

lol Kidd K
lol shitty opinions that ramble forever
lol gay final fantasy avatar

[DMC]

You have to avoid the "10 greatest" talk. It's normally bullshit from people who don't understand the game and who just go from lists they saw elsewhere then add their favorite players higher than they otherwise should be. None of these current players are being viewed in the light of retrospect that the retired guys are, so you're impressed with what you see, but with those guys from those days, it's their entire body of work.

Besides, there's no real "best player". It's about matchups and situations, and some guys flourish in one situation while other guys flourish in another. It's why most professionals and coaches won't even entertain the discussion.

[Koolaid_Man]

Why do laker fans hate LBJ so much? Just curious.

because the nigga ain't earned shit...not a gotdam thing...Lebron don't be dropping niggas off at the rim like MJ and Kobe did...sure he has nice dunks in the open court but I'm not impressed...MJ earned his stripes...he went through the Bad Boy Pistons one of the toughest defenses we've ever seen..then he went though THE toughest defense on wing players which was the 92 Knicks team...MJ earned it...to a lesser degree niggas earned names and careers off Kobe...tough 1 on 1 defenders that Kobe faced like Pippen, Rodman, MJ, Rueben Patterson, Doug Christie, and the legendary Bruce Bowen...to name just a few...nowadays there ain't no one out there that will put their foot in Lebron's ass...go back to the ASG when Kobe defended him 94 ft and blocked his shot twice straight up...a prime Kobe would have killed that nigga....Lebron basically plays no defense, unless it's the passing lanes or run down from behind blocks on smaller guards....man back in the day Gary Payton would have been in his ass from the jump...he wouldn't have let that nigga walk the ball up the court...

I don't give a shit what you Ho's say..give me a prime Larry Bird over prime Lebron any day of the week..real talk

[Koolaid_Man]

:lmao

They may be "lumped" into some imaginary group, but only retarded lakerfans think Kobe should be mentioned on any GOAT list.


get off Kobe's dick already....nigga done your franchise up tbh

[StrengthAndHonor]

:lmao

They may be "lumped" into some imaginary group, but only retarded lakerfans think Kobe should be mentioned on any GOAT list.

Kobe's part of it whether we like it or not. He may be the least qualified but he's part of the conversation, if I'm allowed to be neutral.

[Killakobe81]

Duncan will be deserving but hopefully it puts to rest all this 4 as "alpha" foolish talk ...5 is 5 even if 2 of Timmy' s come with Parker winning Finals MVP ... doesnt matter he is a INTEGRAL part of ALL 5 same as Achilles. It will be a great debate regardless I felt Mamba had moved ahead definitively ...but if Timmy rangs I can see them flip-flopping again (I had Duncan ahead back in 2007 ... moved Achilles SLIGHTLYahead in 2009 ...and further so in 2010 and since)

But LOL those that say rings are just team accomplishments ...they matter when discussing legacy. Duncan knows it too. A chance to tie Magic/Bean pull ahead of Shaq and be one down from Mj of course that matters ...maybe most importantly he would be .... 2-0 vs. James and up 5-1 ...

[Pelicans78]

This thread sucks. Not even sure why I started it.

[Koolaid_Man]

Duncan will be deserving but hopefully it puts to rest all this 4 as "alpha" foolish talk ...5 is 5 even if 2 of Timmy' s come with Parker winning Finals MVP ... doesnt matter he is a INTEGRAL part of ALL 5 same as Achilles. It will be a great debate regardless I felt Mamba had moved ahead definitively ...but if Timmy rangs I can see them flip-flopping again (I had Duncan ahead back in 2007 ... moved Achilles SLIGHTLYahead in 2009 ...and further so in 2010 and since)

But LOL those that say rings are just team accomplishments ...they matter when discussing legacy. Duncan knows it too. A chance to tie Magic/Bean pull ahead of Shaq and be one down from Mj of course that matters ...maybe most importantly he would be .... 2-0 vs. James and up 5-1 ...

I'm going with:

Kobe 5
TOSB 5 * (face it the 99 and the 12 title no matter if justified or not is asterisk especially the 99 title)

[Koolaid_Man]

Kobe didn't win any titles in locked out seasons..where less games where played to earn the title...that is an asterisk by definition not because Kool wants it to be...it's just like PER ratings and all those other advanced stats and shit that mid likes to bring up....the shit is just plain and simple an asterisk

[Leetonidas]

Lakerfan doesn't care, it's Kobe nut hugging faggots that desperately wish to see Tim fail to tie their idol

[Leetonidas]

Kobe didn't win any titles in locked out seasons..where less games where played to earn the title...that is an asterisk by definition not because Kool wants it to be...it's just like PER ratings and all those other advanced stats and shit that mid likes to bring up....the shit is just plain and simple an asterisk

he won a title after playing in a rigged series. huge * imo

[StrengthAndHonor]

because the nigga ain't earned shit...not a gotdam thing...Lebron don't be dropping niggas off at the rim like MJ and Kobe did...sure he has nice dunks in the open court but I'm not impressed...MJ earned his stripes...he went through the Bad Boy Pistons one of the toughest defenses we've ever seen..then he went though THE toughest defense on wing players which was the 92 Knicks team...MJ earned it...to a lesser degree niggas earned names and careers off Kobe...tough 1 on 1 defenders that Kobe faced like Pippen, Rodman, MJ, Rueben Patterson, Doug Christie, and the legendary Bruce Bowen...to name just a few...nowadays there ain't no one out there that will put their foot in Lebron's ass...go back to the ASG when Kobe defended him 94 ft and blocked his shot twice straight up...a prime Kobe would have killed that nigga....Lebron basically plays no defense, unless it's the passing lanes or run down from behind blocks on smaller guards....man back in the day Gary Payton would have been in his ass from the jump...he wouldn't have let that nigga walk the ball up the court...

I don't give a shit what you Ho's say..give me a prime Larry Bird over prime Lebron any day of the week..real talk

Lebron earned it too. Boston Celtics, Detroit Pistons and SAS are the best defensive teams of our era.

[Killakobe81]

I think Lebron makes all the above moot ...
But we shall see ...

I dont hate Duncan tbh ... Kool cant stand Timmy obviously.
I just hate you Mamba hating Silver and black colored glasses hating romp rangers ... that hate on good players (not just Bean) and let that hatred blind you from recognizing great players. I dont hate Lebron, Duncan or Durant because they beat up on my team ...those are 3 amazing players. I would take any on the Lakers even when Lebron talks in third person, or Tim with his tramp stamp or Durant and his acne (pre Pro-aCtiv) I dont care about NONE of that shit ...just if you can play ...period.

Dont et me wrong I dont like certain players: Battier, Pierce and a few others ...but I think they are good players too.

[StrengthAndHonor]

he won a title after playing in a rigged series. huge * imo

Which?

[Koolaid_Man]

Lebron earned it too. Boston Celtics, Detroit Pistons and SAS are the best defensive teams of our era.

Lebron ain't earn shit muthafucker....that nigga on easy street...give me some names of niggas that got in his ass? that made him work....Prime niggas...he got swept by the Spurs he quit against the Celts...he beat no one enroute to a title...like I said..that nigga dont be dropping niggas off at the rim the way MJ and Kobe did...he has one basically hard tamahawk slam and that's fucking it...he just don't have the shit that Kobe and MJ had

[Koolaid_Man]

I think Lebron makes all the above moot ...
But we shall see ...

I dont hate Duncan tbh ... Kool cant stand Timmy obviously.
I just hate you Mamba hating Silver and black colored glasses hating romp rangers ... that hate on good players (not just Bean) and let that hatred blind you from recognizing great players. I dont hate Lebron, Duncan or Durant because they beat up on my team ...those are 3 amazing players. I would take any on the Lakers even when Lebron talks in third person, or Tim with his tramp stamp or Durant and his acne (pre Pro-aCtiv) I dont care about NONE of that shit ...just if you can play ...period.

Dont et me wrong I dont like certain players: Battier, Pierce and a few others ...but I think they are good players too.


I like Tim Duncan more than I like Lebron and that ain't no joke...I don't give a shit he has tongue, rings, tramp stamps, and gets cucked by white men...I'm rooting for that cat..er cuck

[Koolaid_Man]

Paul George just didn't know what he had....he's been in the league only 3 yrs but if that nigga knew what he had he could have finished off Lebron...

[Killakobe81]

Paul George just didn't know what he had....he's been in the league only 3 yrs but if that nigga knew what he had he could have finished off Lebron...

I like PG, but in game 7 he folded. We shall see is it a learning experience or will he one of them Glilber Arenas type flash in the pan kinda nigga?
Heck even players like Penny, TMAC, Grant hill etc with even better flashes as wing players but never fulfilled teh promise they showed in a early playoff run.

I like Paul George's game but he syillneeds to provemore to me tbh ...

[Koolaid_Man]

I like PG, but in game 7 he folded. We shall see is it a learning experience or will he one of them Glilber Arenas type flash in the pan kinda nigga?
Heck even players like Penny, TMAC, Grant hill etc with even better flashes as wing players but never fulfilled teh promise they showed in a early playoff run.

I like Paul George's game but he syillneeds to provemore to me tbh ...

He gone be airight..he's a young cat...he needs to work with Kobe in the off-season though...I like players that dont give a shit about Lebron...Paul gets in the gym and out in some more work he'll be fine...he's still on a rookie contract and he's balling...it's real hard for today's players to have that drive and work ethic of that late 90's class...Duncan, Nash, Kobe, Allen, Paul Pierce, KG...the last great era is coming to an end

[dg7md]

Both are all-time greats in their respective positions. Apples to oranges comparison, they play completely different positions at a different element of the game.

[ezau]

Duncan`s a cool dude despite the cuck factor...i have no issue with the Spurs team, but their fans are by and large insufferable yet easily trollable crybabies. A few on this site are chill people, but the majority are an embarrassment to the human race.

:lol

[Thebesteva]

:lmao

They may be "lumped" into some imaginary group, but only retarded lakerfans think Kobe should be mentioned on any GOAT list.

Right......Only Laker fans think that

[Bobby Peru]

lol spursfans

enjoy these last 2 days of fantasy. reality will be a bitch come Thursday :lol

[FkLA]

I think Lebron makes all the above moot ...
But we shall see ...

I dont hate Duncan tbh ... Kool cant stand Timmy obviously.
I just hate you Mamba hating Silver and black fcolored glasses hating romp rangers ... that hate on good players (not just Bean) and let that hatred blind you from recognizing great players. I dont hate Lebron, Duncan or Durant because they beat up on my team ...those are 3 amazing players. I would take any on the Lakers even when Lebron talks in third person, or Tim with his tramp stamp or Durant and his acne (pre Pr-aCtivdont care about NONE of that shit ...just if you can play ...period.

Dont et me wrong I dont like certain players: Battier, Pierce and a few others ...but I think they are good players too.

We dont hate him because he 'killed' the spurs dumbass. We hate him because hed an overrated, selfish chucker that has been advertised as the next MJ and as the best player since Mike...its like people dont even bother looking at facts with this chucker. Statistically every number suggests hes nowhere near MJ andanyone with a brain realizes that bot Shaq and Duncan were also more dominant. This nigga doesnt even have the vaunted MVP and FMVP in the same season and yet hes inexplicaly lumped with the true GOATs.

[elmanutres]

if timmy gets his 5th

timmy 5 rings
2 season mvps
3 finals mvps

Tired old shitbag rapist
5 rings
1 season mvp
2 finals mvp

[FkLA]

Great scorer and a great desire to be great, sure. But the chucker aint even Top 3 since MJ...maybe top 10-15 all-time imo.

[Richie]

The only way we win a ring is if Duncan dominates and wins a 4th Finals MVP IMO.

[Kidd K]

What in heaven's fuck? Russell #2? We're talking about greatest players of all-time, I thought... not greatest teammates of all-time. Russell was a defensive specialist. Wilt could do everything besides shoot free throws. For me, on my GOAT list, I have Wilt and then everyone else.

Wilt is one of the best talents relative to his era ever. I don't dispute that; however, there's more to being a great basketball player than being a great talent. Being a great teammate and playing great defensive is a big (and very overlooked) part of it as well. Otherwise, your list is just going to be clogged and watered down with volume scorers while many of the greater players like Russell and Duncan are undeservedly shoved far down on those lists and discredited for not having a higher PPG stat or whatever.

But you know, this probably isn't even worth discussing if you seriously discount great defense that much and think his only having two rings in one of the weakest eras don't at all effect his standing in your GOAT list. If you really feel that way, I doubt we'll agree on anything regarding what makes a great basketball player. I won't force my opinion on you about it, but I don't agree with yours either.

[SourCandy]

Yeah it's Duncan's last chance....as was the year before and the year before that :lol

[Floyd Pacquiao]

cully would off himself tbh

[Legacy]

We need more threads like these, tbh.

[Legacy]

lol spursfans

enjoy these last 2 days of fantasy. reality will be a bitch come Thursday :lol

Fergie The Florist is that you?? :lol

[Kidd K]

I'm not discounting defense at all. I don't think you understand... Wilt was better on both sides of the ball. They didn't keep block statistics, but for big games the Celtics had a guy keep track of Russell/Chamberlain's blocks and Wilt had 25 of them in one game. The current record is 17. Despite those kind of numbers, Wilt never fouled out of a game in his career. The real difference, though, is that Russell was somewhat of an offensive liability, whereas Wilt scored 50PPG one year. He was so good that just to keep from being bored he set ridiculous goals for himself before a season, ie he wanted to lead the league assists one year and sure enough, he did. A big man... leading the league in assists... because he was bored. Come on now. I'm not going to fault him because the Celtics had overwhelming talent on their team preventing him from winning rings. Wilt owns the record books; Wilt holds 62 individual records. It is certainly no contest between him and Russell, and for that matter, anyone else.

I'm not denying that Wilt was a super dominant force or that he has a lot of records. That's why I have him at #4 despite the lack of rings and regular season/playoff success. The reason I have Russell above him is that Wilt's talent, for as great as he was, did not translate to winning championships. You could show me the world's greatest scorer, greatest whatever, but what does it matter if it doesn't translate to wins? Russell was just an okay scorer, but hey look, 11 championships in 13 years with his excellent defense and leadership. Just because he won that way instead of the way you like doesn't make it any less impressive. This is why I frequently say PPG is the most overrated stat in basketball and that defense goes criminally overlooked.

When Wilt averaged 50 PPG, how good did his team do again? I'm looking it up now, and it's not even 50 wins. Since I'm on this site looking it up, let's see what the two years before that with Wilt were win wise: 49 and 46 wins. The two years after his 50 PPG season, an awful 31 wins the very next year (but hey, Wilt got his 45 PPG!), then 48 wins after that. Didn't crack 50 wins anywhere near his best season.

It isn't until he goes to Philly that he starts winning 50+, and not coincidently, that's exactly when his scoring stats stopped being so gaudy. As great as those seasons were statistically, it wasn't leading to lots of wins and definitely didn't lead to championships. When he finally did win a title, it was the first year he averaged less than 30 PPG (way less, 24 in fact).

So I don't disagree that Chamberlain belongs high on the GOAT list because he was dominant, set a lot of records, and has the best statistical season of all time. Totally in agreement. However, Chamberlain does not belong on TOP of a real GOAT list with all that imo because winning matters a LOT in determining where people should be. Blaming Wilt's team for his lack of rings doesn't change the fact that he didn't win many either.

Show me a guy who dominates his sport nasty style, with huge stats and broken records and the full nine yards and I will be very impressed. Then tell me he only won two championships while his rival won 11, almost all during his career, and that there are multiple other super dominant players in much stronger eras who won more than twice as many championships, and I will show you a guy who doesn't belong on top of the best players list. Winning matters that much because the point of playing in the NBA is to win games and championships, not to put up the highest numbers on the scoreboard.

[bus driver]

laker fan doesnt care because they are all now clipper fans or heat fans

[TampaDude]

Titles are important for the discussion, but they are not the only measure of greatness.

Robert Horry has 7 rings, but you don't see people putting him in the Top 10.

[AchillesHeel]

As much as I hate Achilles, I have a lot of respect for his game, tbh.

18 - 8 against Timmy in the playoffs
2009 playoff run was beastly and 2010 series vs Suns he looked closest to MJ than he ever did without a superstar, tbh.

Timmy needs to have a nice series against the Heat and win for him to solidify a spot over Kobe and Shaq, imo. Kobe's still only 34 right now, one bs trade, like Pau for Rondo or whatever could get him another Finals appearance, tbh.

[StrengthAndHonor]

Kobes done dude. No need to get Laker fans hopes up.

[Koolaid_Man]

Kobes done dude. No need to get Laker fans hopes up.


Lakers Worst Season 1st Round Exit
Clippers Best Season 1st Round Exit

[Killakobe81]

Wrong. Duncan would be the best player on all 5 championship teams.

I agree doesnt change the fact your Spurs brethen love to point out finals MVP awards ...

[King Nupe]

Tim has never been able to Defend his championship. He's also played with 3 other HOF'ers, the Greatest playoff 3 point shooter ever who has 5 rings in Kerr, and Continuity of 17 Years with the same team, coach and players....But STILL hasn't been able to defend a championship....



Meanwhile, Kobe won 3 straight with 1 HOF in shaq and NO other allstars, then went through an entire uphevel where only Walton was left from the Championship years. Struggled, for 3 years, and when he finally got a another player who could shoot and dribble, he went to 3 straight finals and won Back to Back. So where is the comparison?


TBH, as much as we laker fans clown Duncan and the Spurs, your franchise is the only one we respect besides Boston. But even more so because Boston won most of their rings in the primitive NBA....

[midnightpulp]

Tim has never been able to Defend his championship. He's also played with 3 other HOF'ers, the Greatest playoff 3 point shooter ever who has 5 rings in Kerr, and Continuity of 17 Years with the same team, coach and players....But STILL hasn't been able to defend a championship....



Meanwhile, Kobe won 3 straight with 1 HOF in shaq and NO other allstars, then went through an entire uphevel where only Walton was left from the Championship years. Struggled, for 3 years, and when he finally got a another player who could shoot and dribble, he went to 3 straight finals and won Back to Back. So where is the comparison?


TBH, as much as we laker fans clown Duncan and the Spurs, your franchise is the only one we respect besides Boston. But even more so because Boston won most of their rings in the primitive NBA....

Repeats are team accomplishments, you stupid nignog.

[King Nupe]

Repeats are team accomplishments, you stupid nignog.



Ok, but he still hasn't done it. Isn't making the playoffs a team accomplishment, yet you like to say that Kobe missed it before and Duncan hasn't. The fact is, Duncan has had VASTLY more talent than Kobe yet has won less. Don't have a double standard on team accomplishments.

[King Nupe]

In fact, besides Hakeem, Kobe has had less help than any other Superstar in NBA history. He had 1 HOF for the first 3peat, and a teammate he MADE into an Allstar/champion in Pau. Duncan has always had Mutiple HOF teammates. So has MJ, Magic, Bird, Lebron, and Russell. This Cannot be disputed.

[Spur-Addict]

http://blogs.plos.org/obesitypanacea/files/2010/10/SaltShaker.jpg

[SpursBills]

In fact, besides Hakeem, Kobe has had less help than any other Superstar in NBA history. He had 1 HOF for the first 3peat, and a teammate he MADE into an Allstar/champion in Pau. Duncan has always had Mutiple HOF teammates. So has MJ, Magic, Bird, Lebron, and Russell. This Cannot be disputed.

Duncan's '03 ranks with Hakeem '94/'95 and Dirk '11 is the only championship runs over the past 25 years without another all-star or all-nba player that year. People might argue that those were all deep teams, but in the end the nba is superstar-driven league and one superstar or star trumps multiple role players. When you talk about championship runs made without help, you always have to start with those 4 years.

[midnightpulp]

Ok, but he still hasn't done it. Isn't making the playoffs a team accomplishment, yet you like to say that Kobe missed it before and Duncan hasn't. The fact is, Duncan has had VASTLY more talent than Kobe yet has won less. Don't have a double standard on team accomplishments.

:lmao

Not even close.

Duncan's All star caliber teammates over the years:

'99 David Robinson
'05-'09 Manu Ginobili
'05-'13 Tony Parker

Kobe:

'97-'04 PEAK Shaquille O'Neal. A top 7 All-time great
'04 Karl Malone (20 ppg scorer the year prior)
'04 Gary Payton (20 ppg scorer the year prior)
'05-'10 Lamar Odom
'08-'12 Pau Gasol (top 3 power forward during that time)
'11-'12 Andrew Bynum (2nd best big man in the league)
'13 Dwight Howard

You should be banned for spouting such stupidity. No intelligent basketball fan would ever say Duncan has had a better supporting cast throughout the years than Kobe. The fact he played with a peak Shaq for 8 seasons is enough to invalidate that silly argument.

[King Nupe]

What are you serious? Odom never made an allstar, Bynum made only 1 and was completely a non factor during the championship runs. Pau is 0-12 in the playoffs without Kobe and Howard came off back surgery. Duncan has had more consistent help than Kobe. Deal with it. 3 HOF teammates > 1 and a possible HOF teammate.

[King Nupe]

Lol @ washed up Gary Payton and Malone being mentioned. They're just names on a jersey. The double standard on this site is insane.

[King Nupe]

Duncan's '03 ranks with Hakeem '94/'95 and Dirk '11 is the only championship runs over the past 25 years without another all-star or all-nba player that year. People might argue that those were all deep teams, but in the end the nba is superstar-driven league and one superstar or star trumps multiple role players. When you talk about championship runs made without help, you always have to start with those 4 years.



Ok, but Dirk had a HOF point guard and 6th man in terry. Also, 09-10' Kobe was one of the greatest post season runs of Alltime with one allstar tests that was on the bench during the allstar game. It's not even close.

[midnightpulp]

In fact, besides Hakeem, Kobe has had less help than any other Superstar in NBA history. He had 1 HOF for the first 3peat, and a teammate he MADE into an Allstar/champion in Pau. Duncan has always had Mutiple HOF teammates. So has MJ, Magic, Bird, Lebron, and Russell. This Cannot be disputed.

:lol "Multiple Hall of fame teammates"

David Robinson wasn't in his hall of fame form by the time Duncan arrived. Shaq was in his hall of fame form for 8 years when he played with Kobe. Pau Gasol will be a hall of famer, another player Kobe had the luxury of playing with at his peak. If Dwight Howard resigns, add another hall of famer in his prime that Kobe will have the privilege of playing with for multiple seasons.

Tony Parker is really the only hall of famer Duncan has got to play with in his prime, a player far, far inferior to Shaq. Manu's NBA career is not hall of fame worthy.

[HarlemHeat37]

As advanced stats become more prevalent and prominent in the NBA(advanced stats people are represented on every team except the Lakers, and front offices are now hiring them to be GMs), Kobe's career is going to progressively lose it's luster, tbh..

The future of NBA analysis and discussion will be centered around actual data and quantifiable arguments, rather than lazy, throwaway arguments like "killer instinct", tbh..

Kobe's legacy is built on a foundation of flash and deception, tbh..

[midnightpulp]

Lol @ washed up Gary Payton and Malone being mentioned. They're just names on a jersey. The double standard on this site is insane.

Both of them averaged 20 ppg before joining the Lakers that season. Malone averaged 13 and 9 on 48 percent shooting his year with the Lakers. Gary Payton average 15 and 5 dimes on 47 percent shooting. Yeah, "washed up" indeed.

They made the NBA Finals their very first year together. The only reason the Lakers didn't win the title is because Kobe chucked his team out of the series gunning for the Finals MVP.

[King Nupe]

If Pau gets in, than so does manu. They have the same international accomplishments, except Mamu has more rings. We're talking about title runs anyway. Dwight wasnt there during Kobe's title runs. Kobe has had 1 HOF per championship run. Duncamhas had at least 2 on his last 3 titles.

[Koolaid_Man]

Both of them averaged 20 ppg before joining the Lakers that season. Malone averaged 13 and 9 on 48 percent shooting his year with the Lakers. Gary Payton average 15 and 5 dimes on 47 percent shooting. Yeah, "washed up" indeed.

They made the NBA Finals their very first year together. The only reason the Lakers didn't win the title is because Kobe chucked his team out of the series gunning for the Finals MVP.

give it to em baby....and correction pedimalone got hurt

[Koolaid_Man]

As advanced stats become more prevalent and prominent in the NBA(advanced stats people are represented on every team except the Lakers, and front offices are now hiring them to be GMs), Kobe's career is going to progressively lose it's luster, tbh..

The future of NBA analysis and discussion will be centered around actual data and quantifiable arguments, rather than lazy, throwaway arguments like "killer instinct", tbh..

Kobe's legacy is built on a foundation of flash and deception, tbh..

advanced stats are for those playing in a watered down league like Lebron....with no great team or wing defenders like MJ and Kobe faced advanced stats are nothing but a facade....

[King Nupe]

Both of them averaged 20 ppg before joining the Lakers that season. Malone averaged 13 and 9 on 48 percent shooting his year with the Lakers. Gary Payton average 15 and 5 dimes on 47 percent shooting. Yeah, "washed up" indeed.

They made the NBA Finals their very first year together. The only reason the Lakers didn't win the title is because Kobe chucked his team out of the series gunning for the Finals MVP.


Lol, so Malone blowing out his Knee and Payton dropping off had nothing to do with the loss. And Lol on bringing up what they did the year before.

Robinson averaged 21-10 the year before their championship but you like to point out that he only did 15 and 9 in the championship run.

Richard jefferson averaged 19 Ppg the year before he went to San Antonio. You see how stupid you sound bringing up stats from the year before
Double standard.

[Koolaid_Man]

Lol, so Malone blowing out his Knee and Payton dropping off had nothing to do with the loss. And Lol on bringing up what they did the year before.

Robinson averaged 21-10 the year before their championship but you like to point out that he only did 15 and 9 in the championship run.

Richard jefferson averaged 19 Ppg the year before he went to San Antonio. You see how stupid you sound bringing up stats from the year before
Double standard.


make em bend ova Luva!

[midnightpulp]

What are you serious? Odom never made an allstar, Bynum made only 1 and was completely a non factor during the championship runs. Pau is 0-12 in the playoffs without Kobe and Howard came off back surgery. Duncan has had more consistent help than Kobe. Deal with it. 3 HOF teammates > 1 and a possible HOF teammate.

"All Star caliber" does not equal "making the All Star team."

Odom was definitely an All Star caliber player during that time. Only a moron would suggest otherwise. Bynum was not a "non factor" during those championship runs. His stats were underwhelming because the Lakers had so many other offensive weapons ahead of him, but without Bynum's presence in the paint, Orlando isn't such an easy clean and the Lakers probably don't beat Boston. No surprise that once Odom left and Gasol's role was reduced, Bynum had his best season ever.

:lol "Duncan had more consistent help"

Too bad you can't prove that.

[King Nupe]

"All Star caliber" does not equal "making the All Star team."

Odom was definitely an All Star caliber player during that time. Only a moron would suggest otherwise. Bynum was not a "non factor" during those championship runs. His stats were underwhelming because the Lakers had so many other offensive weapons ahead of him, but without Bynum's presence in the paint, Orlando isn't such an easy clean and the Lakers probably don't beat Boston. No surprise that once Odom left and Gasol's role was reduced, Bynum had his best season ever.

:lol "Duncan had more consistent help"

Too bad you can't prove that.


I just did. He's played with same HOF teammates for 3 of his title runs and most of his career. Bynum averaged 6 and 8 during the title runs and was always injured. Allstar caliber means you made the allstar team or at least reserves. He was to inconsistent to make it.
Shaq > Robinson
Parker > Gasol
Ginobli > Odom
Bowen > Bynum


its easy to see.

[midnightpulp]

Lol, so Malone blowing out his Knee and Payton dropping off had nothing to do with the loss. And Lol on bringing up what they did the year before.

Robinson averaged 21-10 the year before their championship but you like to point out that he only did 15 and 9 in the championship run.

Richard jefferson averaged 19 Ppg the year before he went to San Antonio. You see how stupid you sound bringing up stats from the year before
Double standard.


Richard Jefferson averaged 19 points on .439 shooting the year before joining the Spurs. He's a forgettable player and was a massive failure with the Spurs.

Gary Payton is one of the greatest point guards of all-time who joined the Lakers while he was still an All Star level player. Same with Malone.

I brought up their stats before joining the Lakers to debunk your retarded claim that they were "washed up."

Why reference Robinson again? I already conceded he was an all-star level player in '99. But Duncan never got to play with the hall of fame version of David Robinson for any period of time. Kobe got to play with peak Shaq, a top 10 all-time great, for 8 seasons. That in of itself is enough to put the "Duncan had more help than Kobe" notion to rest.

[King Nupe]

Richard Jefferson averaged 19 points on .439 shooting the year before joining the Spurs. He's a forgettable player and was a massive failure with the Spurs.

Gary Payton is one of the greatest point guards of all-time who joined the Lakers while he was still an All Star level player. Same with Malone.

I brought up their stats before joining the Lakers to debunk your retarded claim that they were "washed up."

Why reference Robinson again? I already conceded he was an all-star level player in '99. But Duncan never got to play with the hall of fame version of David Robinson for any period of time. Kobe got to play with peak Shaq, a top 10 all-time great, for 8 seasons. That in of itself is enough to put the "Duncan had more help than Kobe" notion to rest.



Lol, but 4 of those seasons are irrelevant The championship run didnt start until 99. So he got shaq at his absolute prime for 99-2004. That's not 8 years, that's 5 homie.

[King Nupe]

Richard Jefferson averaged 19 points on .439 shooting the year before joining the Spurs. He's a forgettable player and was a massive failure with the Spurs.

Gary Payton is one of the greatest point guards of all-time who joined the Lakers while he was still an All Star level player. Same with Malone.

I brought up their stats before joining the Lakers to debunk your retarded claim that they were "washed up."

Why reference Robinson again? I already conceded he was an all-star level player in '99. But Duncan never got to play with the hall of fame version of David Robinson for any period of time. Kobe got to play with peak Shaq, a top 10 all-time great, for 8 seasons. That in of itself is enough to put the "Duncan had more help than Kobe" notion to rest.


Duncam played with 17-10 Robinson in 97 and 99'. Robinson had a down year in 98.

[lefty]

http://www.daylol.com/images/2012/August/20/5032b25121c75.gif

[midnightpulp]

Duncam played with 17-10 Robinson in 97 and 99'. Robinson had a down year in 98.

17-10 is hall of fame worthy now?

[King Nupe]

17-10 is hall of fame worthy now?

It's what Pau averaged his 5 seasons as a Laker. 17.4 and 9 to be exact.

[midnightpulp]

Lol, but 4 of those seasons are irrelevant The championship run didnt start until 99. So he got shaq at his absolute prime for 99-2004. That's not 8 years, that's 5 homie.

No they're not. By that logic, I can say that anything post '07 is irrelevant because the championship run was over, so Duncan only got to play with an All Star level Tony Parker for 2 years.

Kobe played with the top 10 version of Shaq for nearly half his career. Duncan's played with an All Star level Tony Parker (who might crack the top 50 players of all time if he's lucky) for 8 seasons.

[midnightpulp]

It's what Pau averaged his 5 seasons as a Laker. 17.4 and 9 to be exact.

Still, Gasol in '09 and '10 was better than any version of David Robinson Duncan got to play with.

[Floyd Pacquiao]

credit rmt for these stats/post

Let's compare the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th options on each team:

LAL 2006 Playoffs / SAS 2003 Playoffs

Odom 19.1 pts / 11 reb / 4.9 asst 49.5%FG - Parker 14.7 pts / 2.8 reb / 3.5 asst 40.3%FG

Kwame 12.9 pts / 6.6 reb / 1.0 asst 52.3%FG SJax 12.8 pts / 4.1 reb / 2.7 asst 41.4%FG

Walton 12.1 pts / 6.4 reb / 1.7 asst 45.8%FG Manu 9.4 pts / 3.8 reb / 2.9 asst 38.5%FG

Kobe lost in the 1st round, and Duncan won the championship.

[King Nupe]

No they're not. By that logic, I can say that anything post '07 is irrelevant because the championship run was over, so Duncan only got to play with an All Star level Tony Parker for 2 years.

Kobe played with the top 10 version of Shaq for nearly half his career. Duncan's played with an All Star level Tony Parker (who might crack the top 50 players of all time if he's lucky) for 8 seasons.


But he's played with another HOF in Ginobli. Again, you and I agree that Ginobli and Gasol are equal HOF candidates. Also, Parker has a FMVP, so he's not a borderline HOFer. Kobe hasn't played with Shaq since 04' and has been to 3 finals without him. What has Duncan done without Ginobli/Parker combo or Robinson/ Parker/ Ginobli combo? Nothing. Parker was even an MVP candidate this year.


Also, Robinson 1 MVP/ Shaq 1 MVP; Parker MVP candidate/Ginobli Mutiple 6 MOY and allstar > Pau allstar bench player/ Odom 1 time 6 MOY, non allstar

[King Nupe]

credit rmt for these stats/post

Let's compare the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th options on each team:

LAL 2006 Playoffs / SAS 2003 Playoffs

Odom 19.1 pts / 11 reb / 4.9 asst 49.5%FG - Parker 14.7 pts / 2.8 reb / 3.5 asst 40.3%FG

Kwame 12.9 pts / 6.6 reb / 1.0 asst 52.3%FG SJax 12.8 pts / 4.1 reb / 2.7 asst 41.4%FG

Walton 12.1 pts / 6.4 reb / 1.7 asst 45.8%FG Manu 9.4 pts / 3.8 reb / 2.9 asst 38.5%FG

Kobe lost in the 1st round, and Duncan won the championship.



Agenda Exposed, Comparing 3 allstar and 2 of them HOF to 3 bench Warner's with one of them no longer in the league

[King Nupe]

Still, Gasol in '09 and '10 was better than any version of David Robinson Duncan got to play with.


Gasol was 18-10, Robinson was 17-10 in two of his years with Duncan AND he was a former MVP. That's not that much of difference

[midnightpulp]

But he's played with another HOF in Ginobli. Again, you and I agree that Ginobli and Gasol are equal HOF candidates. Also, Parker has a FMVP, so he's not a borderline HOFer. Kobe hasn't played with Shaq since 04' and has been to 3 finals without him. What has Duncan done without Ginobli/Parker combo or Robinson/ Parker/ Ginobli combo? Nothing. Parker was even an MVP candidate this year.


Also, Robinson 1 MVP/ Shaq 1 MVP; Parker MVP candidate/Ginobli Mutiple 6 MOY and allstar > Pau allstar bench player/ Odom 1 time 6 MOY, non allstar

What has Kobe done without Shaq/Gasol/Odom combo?

Nothing.

[midnightpulp]

And who gives a shit if Robinson has an MVP.

Is your brain that tiny that you can't comprehend the simple fact that Robinson wasn't in his prime when he played with Duncan?

Fact is, no player ever won a regular season MVP playing alongside Duncan.

But Shaq won one playing alongside Kobe.

And quit bringing up Manu as a "hall of fame" teammate. If FIBA didn't exist, Manu would have zero chance at making the hall of fame. Manu is a fine player and was an all star level teammate from '05-'09, but he was never as good as Gasol was from '08-'10. Neither was Parker until this season.

[King Nupe]

What has Kobe done without Shaq/Gasol/Odom combo?

Nothing.



Those are 2 different combos, and non of those players were successful before they played with Kobe.

[Splits]

And who gives a shit if Robinson has an MVP.

Is your brain that tiny that you can't comprehend the simple fact that Robinson wasn't in his prime when he played with Duncan?

Fact is, no player ever won a regular season MVP playing alongside Duncan.

But Shaq won one playing alongside Kobe.

And quit bringing up Manu as a "hall of fame" teammate. If FIBA didn't exist, Manu would have zero chance at making the hall of fame. Manu is a fine player and was an all star level teammate from '05-'09, but he was never as good as Gasol was from '08-'10. Neither was Parker until this season.

Damn Mid, coming out of nowhere to troll L:lolkerf:loln. Were you in the hole?

[King Nupe]

And who gives a shit if Robinson has an MVP.

Is your brain that tiny that you can't comprehend the simple fact that Robinson wasn't in his prime when he played with Duncan?

Fact is, no player ever won a regular season MVP playing alongside Duncan.

But Shaq won one playing alongside Kobe.

And quit bringing up Manu as a "hall of fame" teammate. If FIBA didn't exist, Manu would have zero chance at making the hall of fame. Manu is a fine player and was an all star level teammate from '05-'09, but he was never as good as Gasol was from '08-'10. Neither was Parker until this season.

But FIBA DOES exist, also you think Gasol would be HOF without FIBA? Parker won a FMVP, so he was better than Gasol ever was.

[DAF86]

And who gives a shit if Robinson has an MVP.

Is your brain that tiny that you can't comprehend the simple fact that Robinson wasn't in his prime when he played with Duncan?

Fact is, no player ever won a regular season MVP playing alongside Duncan.

But Shaq won one playing alongside Kobe.

And quit bringing up Manu as a "hall of fame" teammate. If FIBA didn't exist, Manu would have zero chance at making the hall of fame. Manu is a fine player and was an all star level teammate from '05-'09, but he was never as good as Gasol was from '08-'10. Neither was Parker until this season.

Manu not having a "hall of fame" NBA career is probably true but it's not a definitive, tbh (there's a case that could be made for him getting there on his NBA career alone: 3 rings, one of the best winning % in history, 2 all-star games, 6th man of the year, one of the biggest international stars ever, the eurostep even the flops, the HoF isn't all about stats) and it's definitely not fair to dismiss him when arguing the help Tim Duncan has gotten in his career when '05 Manu was probably the best partner of any of Tim Duncan's championship years. Either way '05 Manu isn't even half as helpful as having '00/'01/'02 Shaq on your team so yeah, Kobe still loses by a lot in this argument.

[midnightpulp]

But FIBA DOES exist, also you think Gasol would be HOF without FIBA? Parker won a FMVP, so he was better than Gasol ever was.

Cedric Maxwell also won a Finals MVP. Guess that means he's better than Gasol, too.

Guess what? A certain player won 3 Finals MVPs playing alongside Kobe.

Gasol is probably a borderline HOF without FIBA. Ginobili doesn't sniff the HOF without FIBA.

Since you love using All Stars selections and other awards as "proof" of player quality, let's see how many All Stars, 6 men of the year, MVPs, Finals MVP, etc winners Kobe and Duncan played with. Note: The award(s) had to be won while playing WITH the respective player, so David Robinson, Karl Malone and Steve Nash's MVPs don't count.

Number of All Star selections:

Duncan's supporting cast: 10

Kobe's supporting cast: 14

6 Man of the Year award winners:

Duncan: 1

Kobe: 1

Regular season MVP award winners:

Duncan: 0

Kobe: 1

Finals MVP award winners:

Duncan: 1

Kobe: 3

All NBA First Team Selections:

Duncan: 0

Kobe: 6

2nd team selections:

Duncan: 3

Kobe: 3

3rd team selections:

Duncan: 5

Kobe: 4


As they say:

/thread

[HI-FI]

watching Midnight dickslap random Laker fans is a ST classic.

[King Nupe]

Cedric Maxwell also won a Finals MVP. Guess that means he's better than Gasol, too.

Guess what? A certain player won 3 Finals MVPs playing alongside Kobe.

Gasol is probably a borderline HOF without FIBA. Ginobili doesn't sniff the HOF without FIBA.

Since you love using All Stars selections and other awards as "proof" of player quality, let's see how many All Stars, 6 men of the year, MVPs, Finals MVP, etc winners Kobe and Duncan played with. Note: The award(s) had to be won while playing WITH the respective player, so David Robinson, Karl Malone and Steve Nash's MVPs don't count.

Number of All Star selections:

Duncan's supporting cast: 10

Kobe's supporting cast: 14

6 Man of the Year award winners:

Duncan: 1

Kobe: 1

Regular season MVP award winners:

Duncan: 0

Kobe: 1

Finals MVP award winners:

Duncan: 1

Kobe: 3

All NBA First Team Selections:

Duncan: 0

Kobe: 6

2nd team selections:

Duncan: 3

Kobe: 3

3rd team selections:

Duncan: 5

Kobe: 4


As they say:

/thread



youre an Idiot with an agenda. All of those stats were pretty much Shaq. Also shaq won 3 FMVPs but you put him as 3 when he should be 1 because its not 3 of Kobe's teammates winning FMVP, it's only 1.


HOF during title runs
Duncan: 3
Kobe : 2

[King Nupe]

Plus those are arbitrary categories you used to fit your agenda.

[King Nupe]

Btw, how is Gasol a borderline HOF without FIBA?

Rings
Manu 3 > Gasol 2

[King Nupe]

And it's only 1 of his teammates with 1st team NBA selection. Your agenda is exposed

[King Nupe]

Also, you have to put how many allstars they played with. Shaq had all those Allstar selections not Gasol. Stop working the numbers

[Amuseddaysleeper]

Duncan`s a cool dude despite the cuck factor...i have no issue with the Spurs team, but their fans are by and large insufferable yet easily trollable crybabies. A few on this site are chill people, but the majority are an embarrassment to the human race.

Me and you though Deadly, we're good :tu

[midnightpulp]

youre an Idiot with an agenda. All of those stats were pretty much Shaq. Also shaq won 3 FMVPs but you put him as 3 when he should be 1 because its not 3 of Kobe's teammates winning FMVP, it's only 1.

Which is exactly why Kobe has had more help than Duncan. The "Shaq" factor is too much to overcome for Kobe supporters in this case. Again, Kobe got to play alongside not just a "Hall of Famer," but one of the greatest players in NBA history, at his peak, for nearly half his career. Any GM, fan, coach would trade Shaq in his prime for Manu and Parker in a nanosecond.



HOF during title runs
Duncan: 3
Kobe : 2

The '03 team didn't even have an all-star, much less a Hall of Famer. Quit simplifying shit with the "Hall of Famer" designation. It makes you look like even more of a moron than you actually are. If that Hall of Famer isn't in his prime, it's meaningless to bring up.

But I can play that game, too.

Top 10 all-time great during title runs:

Kobe: 1

Duncan: 0

And lookie what we have here:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/awards/slam_500_greatest.html

Gasol ranks higher than both Manu and Parker.

/thread again.

[midnightpulp]

Oh, another list in which Gasol ranks higher than both Manu and Parker:

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=282470

[Venti Quattro]

Who gives a shit if the Lakers are not the winners at the end of the season...

[midnightpulp]

And it's only 1 of his teammates with 1st team NBA selection. Your agenda is exposed

And Duncan has not even had one teammate who made an All NBA 1st team.

So what does that tell you?

[midnightpulp]

Oh, another list in which Gasol ranks higher than both Manu and Parker:

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=282470

Another list:

http://northumbriancountdown.wordpress.com/2013/03/16/the-top-100-nba-players-of-all-time-the-consensus-view/

[whitemamba]

Return of [/mention]midnightpulp[/mention]

[spurraider21]

Plus those are arbitrary categories you used to fit your agenda.
So apparently using MVP's, Finals MVP's, 6th man of the year, All-Star Selections, AND All-NBA team selections, essentially every player achievement out there, is "using arbitrary categories."

:rollin

[spurraider21]

Cedric Maxwell also won a Finals MVP. Guess that means he's better than Gasol, too.

Guess what? A certain player won 3 Finals MVPs playing alongside Kobe.

Gasol is probably a borderline HOF without FIBA. Ginobili doesn't sniff the HOF without FIBA.

Since you love using All Stars selections and other awards as "proof" of player quality, let's see how many All Stars, 6 men of the year, MVPs, Finals MVP, etc winners Kobe and Duncan played with. Note: The award(s) had to be won while playing WITH the respective player, so David Robinson, Karl Malone and Steve Nash's MVPs don't count.

Number of All Star selections:

Duncan's supporting cast: 10

Kobe's supporting cast: 14

6 Man of the Year award winners:

Duncan: 1

Kobe: 1

Regular season MVP award winners:

Duncan: 0

Kobe: 1

Finals MVP award winners:

Duncan: 1

Kobe: 3

All NBA First Team Selections:

Duncan: 0

Kobe: 6

2nd team selections:

Duncan: 3

Kobe: 3

3rd team selections:

Duncan: 5

Kobe: 4


As they say:

/thread

Holy. Shit. :worthy:

this is why in the "nba forum awards" i gave you a mention for MVP despite the fact that we typically jab at each other

[King Nupe]

Number of All Star selections:

Duncan's supporting cast: 4

Kobe's supporting cast: 3

6 Man of the Year award winners:

Duncan: 1

Kobe: 1

Regular season MVP award winners:

Duncan: 0

Kobe: 1

Finals MVP award winners:

Duncan: 1

Kobe: 1

All NBA First Team Selections:

Duncan: 0

Kobe: 6

2nd team selections:

Duncan: 3

Kobe: 3

3rd team selections:

Duncan: 5




This is the real numbers. He adjusted the numbers to show Shaq winning 3 FMVP's as 3 of Kobe's teamates, when in reality, its 1 player.


Also, he can't see the fact that Duncan's played with better players...


Robinson < Shaq
Parker > Gasol
Ginobli > Odom
Bowen > Bynum

And ALL NBA First Teams were all Shaq, but he listed them 6 as if it was 6 of Kobe's teammates. His agenda has been exposed

Also he conveniently left out Bruce Bowen being named to All Defensive 1st teams 5 Times, and Defensive 2nd Teams 3 times....

He left out Defensive Team Awards because they would skew the Numbers in Kobe's favor. :lol

[phxspurfan]

Everyone on Kobe's camp would rather see Duncan succeed here, because in terms of GOAT list talk, he's an outlier. Jordan, Lebron, Kobe and perhaps Magic are all lumped under the same group, all perimeter guys. As great as KAJ was and Duncan is no one really puts them in the same aforementioned group. They stand under a different platform.



Lebron is the biggest threat to Kobe's legacy, not Duncan. Lebron's body of work is nearing Kobe's and James just passed the halfway mark of his steroid career. so there's plenty of room left to surpass considered by many as the greatest perimeter player since Jordan. The only argument Kobe's camp has are his rings. Lebron winning a few titles will completely destroy any argument left.

FIFY

[DeadlyDynasty]

Me and you though Deadly, we're good :tu

You're good people, my negro:tu

[kobedwight2412]

Ahahaha Duncan ain't getting shit Bron Bron is gonna rape his monkey ass.

[midnightpulp]

This is the real numbers. He adjusted the numbers to show Shaq winning 3 FMVP's as 3 of Kobe's teamates, when in reality, its 1 player.




And ALL NBA First Teams were all Shaq, but he listed them 6 as if it was 6 of Kobe's teammates. His agenda has been exposed

Also he conveniently left out Bruce Bowen being named to All Defensive 1st teams 5 Times, and Defensive 2nd Teams 3 times....

He left out Defensive Team Awards because they would skew the Numbers in Kobe's favor. [/B][/B][/B][/B][/B][/B]:lol[/B]

All Defensive selections:

1st team

Duncan: 5

Kobe: 0

2nd team

Duncan: 3

Kobe: 5

3rd team

Duncan: 0

Kobe: 1

End of the day though, it's much, much harder to make an All NBA First team than it is to make an All NBA Defensive team.


Number of All Star selections:

Duncan's supporting cast: 4

Kobe's supporting cast: 3


This is such a retarded simplification, I don't even know where to begin? By this logic, if Duncan got to play with Jamaal Magloire, Michael Redd in '04, Mo Williams in '09, and Gerald Wallace in '10, all players who made only one All Star game, he'd have had "more help" than Kobe? Wow. :lmao

Are you really this stupid?

BTW, who is the 4th Spur to make the All Star team? Robinson, Manu, and Parker were the only players that I recall to make an All Star team playing alongside Duncan. On the other hand, players who've made the All Star game in the Kobe era:

Shaq
Eddie Jones
Pau Gasol
Andrew Bynum
Dwight Howard

So even if the 4th Spur escapes my mind, it's still (using your retarded standard) 5>4 in favor of Kobe.


Also, he can't see the fact that Duncan's played with better players...


Robinson < Shaq
Parker > Gasol
Ginobli > Odom
Bowen > Bynum

Let's do it like this instead.

Best player Duncan has ever played with.

Tony Parker is inferior, far inferior, to Shaquille O'Neal, a top ten all-time great.

Second best player Duncan has ever played with is '05-'09 Manu Ginobili who isn't as good as '08-'10 Pau Gasol. In all of the all time great lists I've shown, not one of them ranks Manu (or Parker for that matter) above Pau Gasol.

Third best player Duncan has played with is '98-'01 David Robinson. A slightly better player than prime Lamar Odom, and an inferior player to Dwight Howard. But since Dwight is only a rental thus far, we won't count him as part of Kobe's all time supporting cast.

4th best player Duncan has played with so far is probably Bruce Bowen, who, as an all around player, is about equal to '98-'99 Eddie Jones and '97-'03 Robert Horry.

Derek Fisher>Avery Johnson

Rick Fox>Past his prime Sean Elliott

Andrew Bynum>Rasho/Fabricio Oberto

Ron Artest>Danny Ferry/Steve Smith/Richard Jefferson

Trevor Ariza=Stephen Jackson

Brian Shaw=Steve Kerr

Jordan Farmar>Speedy Claxton

And the list goes on.

[StrengthAndHonor]

I see a lot of double standards from both the Duncan and Kobe minions tbh.

I'll put it this way.

Defensively, Duncan's value could not be matched by Kobe even on his best defensive year, heck even Shaq couldn't do that, Big men always have the edge in terms of defensive impact anyway. Efficiency? Duncan has that one in the bag too. Longevity and consistency? its tied, both are ridiculously consistent within their long NBA careers. Intangibles? Duncan has been the easier teammate to play with. It was a cake walk coaching Duncan as testified by Popovich. You can't say the same for Kobe who has alienated even the best coach in history. Kobe definitely tested Phil's resolve and that was no easy task.


Popularity? Like it or not, its part of the players legacy. Kobe's much more marketable, he's much more known worldwide. This is a major reason why Kobe will never lose his luster and why Duncan though being a better player will most likely lose his relevance before Bryant does. Does anyone understand why the league and writers always highlight's Doctor J when talking about the 83 NBA Championship season by the 76ers? Even though, Moses Malone was the best player on that team? You got that right, the best player of his team or perhaps the better player in that era is overshadowed by Dr. J simply because Malone doesn't have much flash in his game. I just see the same argument for Kobe and Duncan's career 5, 10 years from now. Although not in the same scale, when it all boils down to GOAT talks, there's a good chance Duncan's career will be overshadowed by Bryants'.



Accomplishments? Duncan has more FMVP's, MVP's. The rest shouldn't even matter. Those two are the cream of the crop. Duncan wins in that department. But if I may, Duncan also is a Bronze Medalist. Something I'm sure he's not proud of. I've read all the excuse, and though warranted. Fact is, he one was of the key players who let USA down. Kobe never faced such embarassment in the international stage.


The whole body of Kobe's remarkable career can be pointed towards his insane ability to put points in the bucket, that's not a question at all, in terms of scoring, Kobe's probably second to none when he's hot. But its not peaches and cream, Kobe's biggest strength is also his biggest downfall. While it must feel good to hold the title of the most points scored in the playoffs by any other player, he also achieved this by also taking the most shots (and also the most misses, both in the playoffs and regular season, ouch). But I'll give Kobe credit where its due. I never understand the need to discredit Kobe's 5 championship rings. He was a great second option who did his role exceptionally well during the 3 Peat, better than anyone tbh, he scored like a 1st option when called upon, he was actually a pretty good defender during their title run and he's severely underrated as a play maker during that same span. Not even a natural point guard like Gary Payton could run that triangle with success, it goes to show Kobe's tremendous value in that team and in context, I could see why some Laker fans always puts Kobe as Option 1B, because, truth be told, Lakers are not guaranteed a 3 Peat run without Kobe's brilliance. And when it was time for him to step up and prove his worth as the main guy, he delivered winning back to back titles, something Duncan never did in his glorious career despite having a consistent amount of talented and driven individuals under one great coach. Keep in mind, the Lakers had to rebuild quickly after Shaq left and won back to back titles in just its 5th year (credit to Mitch)



I also hear people say Duncan never missed a playoffs or something to that degree and was consistent in leading the Spurs for 50 + win regular seasons, which really shows tremendous consistency (credit to Pops too) but in 2001, 2004, 2006, 2009, 2011, and 2012 the Spurs also lost all of their playoff series despite having HCA, that's disappointing. Under Kobe's era, the Lakers only lost twice (2004 Pistons, 2011 Mavs). Duncan also never won a back to back title, something that's extremely hard to accomplish at the NBA, while Kobe was able to successfully help the Lakers defend their title in their era.

In terms of franchise, Spurs has a better track record by drafting wisely. I actually have a lot more respect for the Spurs simply because they didn't buy a team on their way to multiple titles. You can't same the same for the Lakers but I'f im allowed to be neutral, I think the Lakers owns the team of our era simply because they have repeats, three-peats, and they also own the Spurs head-to-head playoff records. If San Antonio however wins next season, I think that wrap its up in San Antonio's favor.


For me, the bottom line is this. Duncan is just the better individual player, I tried to look for angles to give Kobe the edge but he just doesn't have it. Had he performed well Game 7 in 2010 against the Celtics, I think I would put Kobe ahead of Duncan and forgive Kobe's previous disappointing NBA Finals series, but he did not, that could've been the game that will immortalize his legacy, but he failed despite winning.


For each respective franchise, its like picking prime versus longevity. Spurs had the longevity but LA had the better prime. I value primes, so my pick are the Lakers.

[King Nupe]

All Defensive selections:

1st team

Duncan: 5

Kobe: 0

2nd team

Duncan: 3

Kobe: 5

3rd team

Duncan: 0

Kobe: 1

End of the day though, it's much, much harder to make an All NBA First team than it is to make an All NBA Defensive team.



This is such a retarded simplification, I don't even know where to begin? By this logic, if Duncan got to play with Jamaal Magloire, Michael Redd in '04, Mo Williams in '09, and Gerald Wallace in '10, all players who made only one All Star game, he'd have had "more help" than Kobe? Wow. :lmao

Are you really this stupid?

BTW, who is the 4th Spur to make the All Star team? Robinson, Manu, and Parker were the only players that I recall to make an All Star team playing alongside Duncan. On the other hand, players who've made the All Star game in the Kobe era:

Shaq
Eddie Jones
Pau Gasol
Andrew Bynum
Dwight Howard

So even if the 4th Spur escapes my mind, it's still (using your retarded standard) 5>4 in favor of Kobe.



Let's do it like this instead.

Best player Duncan has ever played with.

Tony Parker is inferior, far inferior, to Shaquille O'Neal, a top ten all-time great.

Second best player Duncan has ever played with is '05-'09 Manu Ginobili who isn't as good as '08-'10 Pau Gasol. In all of the all time great lists I've shown, not one of them ranks Manu (or Parker for that matter) above Pau Gasol.

Third best player Duncan has played with is '98-'01 David Robinson. A slightly better player than prime Lamar Odom, and an inferior player to Dwight Howard. But since Dwight is only a rental thus far, we won't count him as part of Kobe's all time supporting cast.

4th best player Duncan has played with so far is probably Bruce Bowen, who, as an all around player, is about equal to '98-'99 Eddie Jones and '97-'03 Robert Horry.

Derek Fisher>Avery Johnson

Rick Fox>Past his prime Sean Elliott

Andrew Bynum>Rasho/Fabricio Oberto

Ron Artest>Danny Ferry/Steve Smith/Richard Jefferson

Trevor Ariza=Stephen Jackson

Brian Shaw=Steve Kerr

Jordan Farmar>Speedy Claxton

And the list goes on.


Its funny how you just arbitralily say who's better than who. Like Farmer over Claxton. There isn't a stat that would support that argument, but because you listed a lot of players you think people would just ignore that.

I'm talking about players that he WON Championships with. Not scrubs that played a few years. And the fact is, during the Championship years, Kobe has only played with 2 Allstars. Duncan has played with 3. I was mistaken with 4.

Saying things like

Rick Fox > Past his prime Sean Elli

is a clear Agenda move. Rick fox was already past his prime when the Lakers won their first championship. But you didn't say that did you. You highlighted Sean Elliots prime so that you could use the "less than" symbol. The fact of the Matter is Sean Elliott is a 2 Time allstar while, Rick foxx never SNIFFED an allstar game. Your agenda is clearly evident.

LOL, Brian Shaw = 5 Time champion, 3 point shoot out, 2x 3 point Percentage Champion Steve Kerr


Also comparing Oberto and Andrew bynum is ridiculous. Oberto has International awards, and won an International MVP. Bynum, barley made 1 allstar game and has never played a full season. LOL....You are a clown!



The point is man, The Spurs have been able to Consistenly surround Duncan with Talent. You won 2 championshps in the years that Kobe and Shaq split. Duncan never played with Scrubs like Kwame Brown, Chris Mihm, Smush Parker and other scrubs. But even with all the talent duncan has had, he still won LESS. DEAL WITH IT....

[Deuce Bigalow]

credit rmt for these stats/post

Let's compare the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th options on each team:

LAL 2006 Playoffs / SAS 2003 Playoffs

Odom 19.1 pts / 11 reb / 4.9 asst 49.5%FG - Parker 14.7 pts / 2.8 reb / 3.5 asst 40.3%FG

Kwame 12.9 pts / 6.6 reb / 1.0 asst 52.3%FG SJax 12.8 pts / 4.1 reb / 2.7 asst 41.4%FG

Walton 12.1 pts / 6.4 reb / 1.7 asst 45.8%FG Manu 9.4 pts / 3.8 reb / 2.9 asst 38.5%FG

Kobe lost in the 1st round, and Duncan won the championship.
03 Playoffs - Spurs - 97.7 DRTG (#1 out of 16)

06 Playoffs - Lakers - 113.6 DRTG (#15 out of 16)

[midnightpulp]

Its funny how you just arbitralily say who's better than who. Like Farmer over Claxton. There isn't a stat that would support that argument, but because you listed a lot of players you think people would just ignore that.

I'm talking about players that he WON Championships with. Not scrubs that played a few years. And the fact is, during the Championship years, Kobe has only played with 2 Allstars. Duncan has played with 3. I was mistaken with 4.

Saying things like

Rick Fox > Past his prime Sean Elli

is a clear Agenda move. Rick fox was already past his prime when the Lakers won their first championship. But you didn't say that did you. You highlighted Sean Elliots prime so that you could use the "less than" symbol. The fact of the Matter is Sean Elliott is a 2 Time allstar while, Rick foxx never SNIFFED an allstar game. Your agenda is clearly evident.

LOL, Brian Shaw = 5 Time champion, 3 point shoot out, 2x 3 point Percentage Champion Steve Kerr


Also comparing Oberto and Andrew bynum is ridiculous. Oberto has International awards, and won an International MVP. Bynum, barley made 1 allstar game and has never played a full season. LOL....You are a clown!



The point is man, The Spurs have been able to Consistenly surround Duncan with Talent. You won 2 championshps in the years that Kobe and Shaq split. Duncan never played with Scrubs like Kwame Brown, Chris Mihm, Smush Parker and other scrubs. But even with all the talent duncan has had, he still won LESS. DEAL WITH IT....

Lol.

Rick Fox's was a better player for the Lakers during the 3 peat than Sean Elliott, two years from retirement and missing a kidney, was with the Spurs by the time Duncan arrived. Fox was a better defender, better rebounder, and about the same level of scorer. But to throw you a bone, I'll concede Rick Fox=Sean Elliott.

Howeva...

'00 Glen Rice > '99 Sean Elliott.

Compare Shaw's stats with the Lakers to Kerr's with San Antonio and get back to me. Never mind, since you're a moron, I'll be happy to do the work for you:

Kerr's playoff stats during the '99 Championship run: 2.2 points on .267 shooting.

Shaw's during the '00 run: 5.4 points on .421 shooting.

Kerr's stats during the '03 run: 2.2 points on .636 shooting.

Shaw's during the '01 run: 4.4 points on .375 shooting.

And when we compare their rebounding and assist stats, it's even more laughable.

Lol at referencing 3 point shootout "championships" as if they mean anything. Kerr was little more than a scrub who hit big shots once in awhile, just like Brian Shaw.



I'm talking about players that he WON Championships with. Not scrubs that played a few years. And the fact is, during the Championship years, Kobe has only played with 2 Allstars. Duncan has played with 3. I was mistaken with 4.


That wasn't the original premise of the debate. We we're debating who has had more help over the entirety of the career. You can't blame Duncan for the fact Kobe failed to win a championship when BOTH Eddie Jones and Shaq were All Stars at the same time.

And guess what? Duncan has never had the luxury (like Kobe) to play alongside two All Star selections, since Parker and Manu never made it at the same time.

Furthermore, Duncan has won the championship playing WITHOUT an All Star selection by his side. Something Kobe has never even come close to doing. In addition to that, Duncan has never played alongside a top 25 player of all-time, much less a top 10 player of all-time, as Kobe got to for 8 years.

Oh, and David Robinson never made an All Star team in a championship year. Maybe he makes it '99 if there was one, but Shaq would've definitely been the starter and Hakeem (who had better stats) the likely reserve.

So:

Duncan championship teams: 2 All Stars and no top ten all-time great player.

Kobe championship teams: 2 All Stars and one of the greatest players of all-time.

But again, using All Star selections to define player quality is the height of stupidity.

The fact Kobe played with PEAK Shaq for half his career (with good surrounding talent around that core) pretty much undermines any supporting cast argument you can come up with. That would be like Duncan playing with second 3 peat Jordan and then me telling you so-and-so player had "more help" because he played with one more "all star" :lmao

If it makes you feel better, I'll concede Duncan's '05 supporting cast was better than Kobe's supporting casts in '09 and '10. But other than that, Kobe's championship teams have always had deeper talent.

[King Nupe]

Ok, you keep saying that "Duncan never playeed with a top 25 player of all time", but you will have to concede that he played with a Top 10 Center of all time. Most people have Robinson in their Top Ten Center list. The fact that Robinson isn't better than 25 other Guards and Forwards is irrelevant, he's still a top 10 center.


Also, Peak Shaq started in 95-2003. Shaq was NOT Peak in 2004. Kobe played with PEAK Shaq for 6 years. And then you have to consider the fact, that they didn't start winnning championships until KOBE got better. Shaq had been in the league 4 Years before Kobe was a rookie.

Duncan came in the league to a team with an Established top 10 Center who just made the all star team the year before and won MVP 2 years before that. Duncan also had Pop from day 1. Kobe didn't get Phil until his 4 Year in the league.

My overall point is this, Duncan had more CONSISTENT help than Kobe. It may not been more if you use Shaq > parker/ginobli/Robinson....But if you list it Individually, Duncan had a better team. The 3 peat Lakers were one of the most Top heavy Championship teams in NBA History. You had Shaq and Kobe. Then everybody else. The spurs had Robinson, Duncan, Parker and Ginobli all at the same time in 2003. Ginobli had already 3 Italian League MVP's, and 2 EURO league MVP's along with Euroleague and FIBA Championship BEFORE he came to the spurs. He was an INTERNATIONAL Superstar. Kobe never had that until he got Pau, but he was the second option, while Ginobli was the 4th option and came off the bench. The talent levels of both teams throughout the Kobe/Duncan era isn't comparable.

[midnightpulp]

Ok, you keep saying that "Duncan never playeed with a top 25 player of all time", but you will have to concede that he played with a Top 10 Center of all time. Most people have Robinson in their Top Ten Center list. The fact that Robinson isn't better than 25 other Guards and Forwards is irrelevant, he's still a top 10 center.


Also, Peak Shaq started in 95-2003. Shaq was NOT Peak in 2004. Kobe played with PEAK Shaq for 6 years. And then you have to consider the fact, that they didn't start winnning championships until KOBE got better. Shaq had been in the league 4 Years before Kobe was a rookie.

Duncan came in the league to a team with an Established top 10 Center who just made the all star team the year before and won MVP 2 years before that. Duncan also had Pop from day 1. Kobe didn't get Phil until his 4 Year in the league.

My overall point is this, Duncan had more CONSISTENT help than Kobe. It may not been more if you use Shaq > parker/ginobli/Robinson....But if you list it Individually, Duncan had a better team. The 3 peat Lakers were one of the most Top heavy Championship teams in NBA History. You had Shaq and Kobe. Then everybody else. The spurs had Robinson, Duncan, Parker and Ginobli all at the same time in 2003. Ginobli had already 3 Italian League MVP's, and 2 EURO league MVP's along with Euroleague and FIBA Championship BEFORE he came to the spurs. He was an INTERNATIONAL Superstar. Kobe never had that until he got Pau, but he was the second option, while Ginobli was the 4th option and came off the bench. The talent levels of both teams throughout the Kobe/Duncan era isn't comparable.

Shaq was still near his peak in '04. He demolished the Wallace Brothers, but didn't get enough touches because Kobe was desperate to win his 1st Finals MVP and chucked the Lakers out of the series.

And. Who. Gives. A. Shit. About. Manu's. Euroleague. Accomplishments. All that matters is what you do on the floor, and Manu was behind Stephen Jackson in the rotation in '03 and was nowhere near the player he was two years later. A variety of players have been "Euroleague" superstars and never done shit in the NBA. Citing Ginobili's Euroleague accomplishments is irrelevant.

More on that '03 team that you keeping telling me had Parker, Robinson, and Manu all at the same time.

Parker was being benched in favor of Speedy Claxton and Steve Kerr.

Manu was a rookie who average 9.6 points per game on .386 shooting.

David Robinson was in his retirement season and put 7.8 point per game in the playoffs.

Tell me again with a straight face that team was deeper than any of Kobe's title teams?

The Lakers were indeed top heavy, but weren't in anyway Shaq/Kobe and a bunch of scrubs. They were surrounded by some of the best veteran role players of this era: Horry, Fox, Harper, Fisher, etc. Without Horry, the Spurs are sitting on 1 less title.

No one but Kobe fanboys would agree that Duncan has had more "consistent" help throughout his career than Kobe.

[King Nupe]

Hold, up...So you don't agree that Duncan has had more consistent help than Kobe? Even during the down years? Really man? Yall won championships 4 times with the SAME team...Kobe had to wait until his team got better....Matter of fact....the only Team mate Kobe had from the Three Peat years is Fisher...

[midnightpulp]

Hold, up...So you don't agree that Duncan has had more consistent help than Kobe? Even during the down years? Really man? Yall won championships 4 times with the SAME team...Kobe had to wait until his team got better....Matter of fact....the only Team mate Kobe had from the Three Peat years is Fisher...

Of course not. But overall, Kobe's had better complementary stars throughout his career (more total all star team selections, more total All NBA selections, more MVP award winners). Again, the Shaq factor. I don't think you appreciate the nightmare it is for an opposing team to have to play against a team that features the best player in the league, at his peak, and the 3rd/4th/5th best player in the league as Kobe was during the 3 peat. Surround those two with solid role players with a great head coach at the helm, and you're guaranteed a few titles.

And the reason the Spurs have had to rely on "the same" team is because they can't attract high profile free agents or spend too much over the luxury tax like the Lakers.

I'd be more inclined to agree with you if the Spurs had THIS Tony Parker for 5 or 6 years or '05 Manu for the same amount of time, but they haven't.

Anyhow, end of the day, it's a tricky argument to "prove" either way since Kobe and Duncan play different positions.

[King Nupe]

I agree with you that on a scale, shaq dominance outshines Parker/Ginobli/ Robinson.....But

Shaq = Duncan
Kobe = Parker + Ginobli+ Robinson
Phil > Pop
Brown + RudyT+Del Harris+Kurt Rambis < POP

So the total talent level among the stars is equal when put on a scale. But its the role players where the spurs get the edge. Its also the fact that the Spurs kept the team intact for 17 years...

[Ashy Larry]

I have a problem with anyone other than the Lakers winning because it means my squad didn't win. But on a different level, as far as Duncan goes, I have no problem with it. I've always loved the TOSB's game. Quiet assassin ....... the quiet storm. If he gets his fifth or not, when the series ends, this is going to be the place to be.

[midnightpulp]

I agree with you that on a scale, shaq dominance outshines Parker/Ginobli/ Robinson.....But

Shaq = Duncan
Kobe = Parker + Ginobli+ Robinson

So the total talent level among the stars is equal when put on a scale. But its the role players where the spurs get the edge. Its also the fact that the Spurs kept the team intact for 17 years...

Like who?

Gasol>Any Spur role player big man.

Bynum>Any Spur role player big man.

Odom>Bowen (I don't care about Bowen's all D selections. He was a specialist. Odom was a very, very solid all around player who could pass, rebound, and shoot).

Ariza/Artest/Fox=Sean Elliott, Stephen Jackson, Michael Finley.

Derek Fisher>Avery Johnson

Lakers Robert Horry=Spurs Robert Horry

Not really seeing how Spurs' role players get the edge here.

[King Nupe]

Like who?

Gasol>Any Spur role player big man.

Bynum>Any Spur role player big man.

Odom>Bowen (I don't care about Bowen's all D selections. He was a specialist. Odom was a very, very solid all around player who could pass, rebound, and shoot).

Ariza/Artest/Fox=Sean Elliott, Stephen Jackson, Michael Finley.

Derek Fisher>Avery Johnson

Lakers Robert Horry=Spurs Robert Horry

Not really seeing how Spurs' role players get the edge here.




Gasol was not a role player man....Lets get serious. He's on Parker Level.


Odom < Ginobli
Gasol = Parker

[Thebesteva]

You guys waste so much time debating about Kobe or Duncan's greatness...Jeebus man its getting old. Kobe just got on Forbes list for 3rd highest paid athlete this year and I'm sure Duncan is being paid in the upper millions for his role. Ya'll broke ass mother fuckers debating about these guys all the time and they don't give a fuck about you.

[midnightpulp]

Gasol was not a role player man....Lets get serious. He's on Parker Level.


Odom < Ginobli
Gasol = Parker

You didn't include Gasol in your above equation, so I compared him to Spurs role players.

Again:

Shaq>Parker

Gasol>Ginobili

99' and '03 Robinson = '09 and '10 Odom.

I'll give you Bowen>Fisher.

Bynum>Rasho/Oberto

etc...

[King Nupe]

Nah man,

I already told you, Oberto was always healthy and Bynum barely played. I'll take the Robinson = Odom, but I don't agree especially when bynum was always hurt. Maybe if you said, Bynum= Jefferson... I'd take that....

[Michael Jordan.]

wouldnt mind to see Jim get one more, unlike the majority of the ass hurt spur fans around here who hate kobe, i have a mutual respect for duncan, This probably being their real last shot at getting that 5th ring, i would give congrats to spur fan, and credit where credit is due.


:lol - Like Tony the Tiger, I'd feel ggggrrrrrrreeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaaatttt! I'd rather see TD get #5 than LBJ get #2. Sure, I'd like to keep messing with you farmers, but I despise LBJ and would love to see that jackass have 1 Finals win** and 3 Finals losses

** Denotes strike shortened season and did not repeat as a champion

Now stop making these thread already. :lol
Damn, straight coattailed Duncan then dick riding LeBron after 28

[Koolaid_Man]

Damn, straight coattailed Duncan then dick riding LeBron after 28

that was before we knew about the homo sec usality...Laker fan would never openly ride a secual

[Michael Jordan.]

that was before we knew about the homo sec usality...Laker fan would never openly ride a secual

http://i.imgur.com/ygZSd.gif

[Bynumite]

Damn, straight coattailed Duncan then dick riding LeBron after 28

Says the coat-tailing faggot slurping the homo cuck and Lebeta :lol

Bandwagoning both teams that play in the Finals, doesn't get any worse than that. HarlemFaggot :lol Fuck boy :lol

[Koolaid_Man]

http://i.imgur.com/ygZSd.gif

based on what....straight people catch the big killa everyday

[Michael Jordan.]

Says the coat-tailing faggot slurping the homo cuck and Lebeta :lol

Bandwagoning both teams that play in the Finals, doesn't get any worse than that. HarlemFaggot :lol Fuck boy :lol
Why you mad son? I ain't even mention ya, dawg. And multiple sources confirm I'm not Harlem. But of your 2,312 posts, it doesn't surprise me you've never been right once.

http://i.imgur.com/lAZ1L.gif

[Michael Jordan.]

based on what....straight people catch the big killa everyday

:lol Pretending Magic didn't get dicked in the ass by Isiah.

[Koolaid_Man]

:lol Pretending Magic didn't get dicked in the ass by Isiah.

neither one confirms you're allegations...in the case of Tim-Tam his wife confirms along with all the corroborating evidence....his wife is all we need tbh...Cookie still with Magic

[whitemamba]

Damn, straight coattailed Duncan then dick riding LeBron after 28

didnt know he was a faggot getting cucked tbh, hes not a man anymore. Any man that gets cucked doesnt deserve no respect. Now stfu.

http://i.imgflip.com/2v44z.jpg

[HarlemHeat37]

Why you mad son? I ain't even mention ya, dawg. And multiple sources confirm I'm not Harlem. But of your 2,312 posts, it doesn't surprise me you've never been right once.

http://i.imgur.com/lAZ1L.gif

:lol, tbh..

Bynumite is one of the top 10 shittiest posters in ST history, tbh..keep shitting on that pussy boy, tbh..

[Michael Jordan.]

:lol Lakerfan ridin Tammy's floppy dick

[Michael Jordan.]

that was before we knew about the homo sec usality...Laker fan would never openly ride a secual

Yet you mentioned the tramp stamp and tongue ring :lol