2013 Free Agent: Andrei Kirilenko

[Bruno]

http://www.nba.com/media/act_andrei_kirilenko.jpg
Born: Feb 18, 1981
Height: 6-9 / 2.06
Weight: 235 lbs. / 106.6 kg.
From: St. Petersburg, Russia
Years Pro: 10

Info (http://www.nba.com/playerfile/andrei_kirilenko/career_stats.html)

$10.2M player option

[Slutter McGee]

I would love to have him, but what would we do with him. He doesn't have great range from 3 and thats a lot of money you end up paying for a backup SF. So I guess he would be primarily at the 4? And how much would it cost to get him considering his player option?

Slutter McGee

[Richie]

Cant see him opting out

[exstatic]

Cant see him opting out

Nope. Who's going to pay him $10M?

[Bruno]

I doubted he would opt out and that's why there wasn't a thread for him but the latest says he might:
http://www.1500espn.com/sportswire/The_Scoops_Wolves_keeping_trade_talks_alive_with_d raft_approaching060713


Wolves' forward Andrei Kirilenko, who has to decide by the end of the month if he'll opt-in to a $10 million contract for the 2013-14 season, to a Russian reporter this week: "So far nothing has been decided, before the first of July is the time. Let us think. For me, not that good, it's just a one-year (contract with the Wolves). And after a year I have to again decide what's what, I would certainly prefer in this situation have a full contract and did not think about my future."

Sounds like a player giving serious consideration to becoming a free agent. According to a source, the Wolves want him back, but are not in love with paying him $10 million.

[exstatic]

The smartest thing might be to opt IN, and then work out a buyout, usually 50%, and go seek a new team/contract with $5M in your pocket. Worst case scenario is you get paid $10M for next year.

[Uriel]

The smartest thing might be to opt IN, and then work out a buyout, usually 50%, and go seek a new team/contract with $5M in your pocket. Worst case scenario is you get paid $10M for next year.
No way the Wolves agree to that.

[CGD]

Interesting find. If he did opt out I wonder what would be fair for him, 3yr/18m sound about right? That's about Manu money as well, which seems comparable.

[pad300]

Should have traded SJax (plus first rounders) for him... He'd be a huge asset this series. Moving forward, the only thing I could see working would be a wierd S&T Bonner + resigned Robert Horry (X unguaranteed + $100K signing bonus (paid by Spurs)) for Kirilenko... I'm not even sure that you can pull that kind of thing under the new CBA.

[Captivus]

I don't want him.
At some point the Spurs have to start rebuilding. And with the success the Spurs are having this year I would start moving things next year.
30+ Years is too old for me.

[100%duncan]

Stay the fuck off.

[Sdayi135]

Pass

[Spursfanfromafar]

Kirilenko would be a great replacement for Dejuan Blair and Bonner next year. But he will be too expensive for us. If he can take a drastic payout and spread out his contract, he can certainly be a worthy shot to take at.

[Richie]

Should have traded SJax (plus first rounders) for him... He'd be a huge asset this series. Moving forward, the only thing I could see working would be a wierd S&T Bonner + resigned Robert Horry (X unguaranteed + $100K signing bonus (paid by Spurs)) for Kirilenko... I'm not even sure that you can pull that kind of thing under the new CBA.

Pretty sure that loophole has been closed in the most recent CBA

[DesignatedT]

Ken Berger ‏@KBergCBS 7m
No decision yet from Wolves free agent Andrei Kirilenko on his $10.2 million player option for next season, league source says.

[Seventyniner]

According to hoopshype he opted out. Sorry, hard to post links on my phone.

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

Yup, he's opted out.

[Baam]

I'm all for it, better/tougher than Tiago.

Boris and him would be nice PF rotation, nothing scary but very versatile and smart.

[Redshadows]

Bruno, how much do you think AK could get?

[Anonymous Cowherd]

Surprised tbh. That's a big wad of cash to walk away from.

[SpursSerb]

He wants a long term contract.Being 32 i don't think the Spurs should give him that.Go for younger guys.

[td4mvp2k]

He wants a long term contract.Being 32 i don't think the Spurs should give him that.Go for younger guys.

tru u dont do more then wat diaw gets

[Bruno]

Bruno, how much do you think AK could get?

Something like $28M/4 years.

[Mark in Austin]

Something like $28M/4 years.

I would think long and hard about that. Very tempting.

[ace3g]

I like him because he could potentially stay in the "big" starting line up and stay when the Spurs go small.

[Bruno]

As a strict SF, like he was with Minny, Kirilenko isn't worth a big contract from Spurs. With Spurs, he will have to play about half of the time at PF and I don't know if he would like that.

[ace3g]

Well with CSKA Moscow playing SA and the Wolves during the preseason...will that have any impact on his choice, lol, probably not.

[ducks]

he can create I like that
4 years 24 million sign him up

[DrunkTXLabrat]

he's good. i like what somebody said about not giving him more than diaw. i'd rather see aminu and/or earl clark though. i think younger vets are better free agent options. they have the upside.

[Bruno]

I wonder how Minny is interested in re-signing him. The have drafted Shabazz Muhammad and they want to re-sign Budinger.

And I damn hope Spurs are right now talking to Kirilenko. He really should be their first priority. A 5 player rotation at SF/PF/C with Leonard/Kirilenko/Diaw/Splitter/Duncan would be really nice.

[ace3g]

I wonder how Minny is interested in re-signing him. The have drafted Shabazz Muhammad and they want to re-sign Budinger.

And I damn hope Spurs are right now talking to Kirilenko. He really should be their first priority. A 5 player rotation at SF/PF/C with Leonard/Kirilenko/Diaw/Splitter/Duncan would be really nice.

Would love this as well, plus good pieces for small ball line ups

[elemento]

I agree

What makes him such a great fit is the fact that he can play both forward positions well. We kill two problems (quality 4 + a backup 3) with only 1 guy.

Not to mention the fact that he is a good defender and has great size to play both positions. I would love to have him in SA, even if it means to let Splitter go.

[Spursfanfromafar]

I wonder how Minny is interested in re-signing him. The have drafted Shabazz Muhammad and they want to re-sign Budinger.

And I damn hope Spurs are right now talking to Kirilenko. He really should be their first priority. A 5 player rotation at SF/PF/C with Leonard/Kirilenko/Diaw/Splitter/Duncan would be really nice.

Indeed. Kirilenko is the player who fits the Spurs' needs perfectly. Good defender with shot blocking capabilities and perimeter defense. Good off the ball movement and threat on offense and only weakness is three point shooting.

[ace3g]

Spurs would essentially have 3 NT Captains on their roster: France (TP), Argentina (Manu), and Russia (Kirilenko).

[ace3g]

Bruno for some reason I was thinking it would be impossible to sign Kirilenko, Splitter, and Manu?

[Bruno]

Bruno for some reason I was thinking it would be impossible to sign Kirilenko, Splitter, and Manu?

If Spurs amnesty Bonner and withdraw their QO on Neal, they will have $12.8M to split between Ginobili and Kirilenko. It could even be $13.4M if they get Kirilenko with an empty S&T like Kirlenko for a futur second round pick and $1M in cash.

Now, it's depend on how much you think Ginobili and Kirilenko will get.

[cdcast]

If they amnesty Bonner, it could work. After signing Splitter and Manu, they could have around 8 mil cap space.

[cjw]

Spurs would essentially have 3 NT Captains on their roster: France (TP), Argentina (Manu), and Russia (Kirilenko).

Not to mention the leading scorer at the Olympics in Patty

[jyra]

It's going to get interesting once Pekovic signs an offer sheet. From then on the Wolves only have three days to come to an agreement and sign Kirilenko or most of their cap space will be gone.

[Seventyniner]

It's hard to imagine any team offering AK47 $10M per year. If he wants 4 years, how low of an annual salary would he accept? $7M?

[spurraider21]

If Spurs amnesty Bonner and withdraw their QO on Neal, they will have $12.8M to split between Ginobili and Kirilenko. It could even be $13.4M if they get Kirilenko with an empty S&T like Kirlenko for a futur second round pick and $1M in cash.

Now, it's depend on how much you think Ginobili and Kirilenko will get.
how much are you expecting Splitter to sign for based on these numbers?

[Bruno]

how much are you expecting Splitter to sign for based on these numbers?

I'm using Splitter cap hold so even if Splitter is later signed to a max contract, they still would have that much money to give to Ginobili and Kirilenko.

[K-State Spur]

Indeed. Kirilenko is the player who fits the Spurs' needs perfectly. Good defender with shot blocking capabilities and perimeter defense. Good off the ball movement and threat on offense and only weakness is three point shooting.

Still a good defender, although his per 36 shotblocking #s have fallen 7 consecutive seasons, and are pretty mediocre at this point (Splitter is a better shotblocker). I think you can almost cross the blocked shot off his player profile as it currently stands.

Actually a sneaky solid offensive player - but he needs to pocket the 3 pointer at this juncture. To hit only 29% and still jack up 120 threes is pretty terrible.

[jyra]

I think that the switch from playing PF to almost exclusively playing SF the last couple of years is the main reason his shot blocking (and rebounding) has gone down. With the Spurs he would have to play a lot minutes at the 4 so I would expect those numbers to go up again.

[K-State Spur]

He played quite a bit of 4 last year after Love went down.

I think it's more to do with 2 things: 1) ridiculous shot block totals earlier in career were based more on gambling, he's become a more disciplined defender. 2) Losing athleticism with age.

[jyra]

He played quite a bit of 4 last year after Love went down.

I don't know about that. I admittedly haven't seen too many Twolves games last year but looking at the minute distribution I think Derrick Williams and Dante Cunningham soaked up most of the minutes at the 4.

But you obviously can't expect him to replicate the crazy shot blocking numbers from his prime any more.

[DrunkTXLabrat]

i like ak better than marion. and i like marion. i just think younger is better. earl clark or aminu...

[ace3g]

Henry Abbott @TrueHoop
(http://twitter.com/TrueHoop)Sounds like Andrei Kirilenko is happy in Minnesota; wants a three-year deal from a team with a chance to be good. bit.ly/14m5jvF (http://t.co/zYEJGXt4lX)

[ace3g]

!!!

Marc Stein @ESPNSteinLine
(http://twitter.com/ESPNSteinLine)One of the teams that troubles Minnesota in Wolves' bid to retain Andrei Kirilenko: San Antonio. I'm told Spurs have AK-47 in their sights

[jyra]

Make it happen RC!! :flag:

[jyra]

-

[Juan]

I wonder how Minny is interested in re-signing him. The have drafted Shabazz Muhammad and they want to re-sign Budinger.

And I damn hope Spurs are right now talking to Kirilenko. He really should be their first priority. A 5 player rotation at SF/PF/C with Leonard/Kirilenko/Diaw/Splitter/Duncan would be really nice.

Can the Spurs sign Manu - Tiago and AK? What would cap situation look like if that were possible.

[dbestpro]

To get AK47, maybe the Spurs should pass on Tiago and go after someone who might cost less like Speights. He could be a hidden gem.

[Marcus Bryant]

Would be a nice fit. And definitely a move for the near term.

[Seventyniner]

I'm not sure where the best place is to ask this question, so here goes. (Info from ShamSports: http://data.shamsports.com/content/pages/data/salaries/timberwolves.jsp)

What is Minnesota's cap situation like? Kirilenko opted out, Roy will be waived (since he didn't meet games or minutes benchmarks, his salary is unguaranteed), and Steimsma, Cunningham, and Gelabale are all unguaranteed or have team options.

Adding up their guaranteed salaries (Love, Williams, Barea, Ridnour, Rubio, Shved, Lee, Johnson) gives about $39.3M. Adding cap holds (Pekovic 8.8M, Cunningham 2.7M, draft picks 3M) gives $53.8M. This leaves less than $5M in cap space with a cap of $58.5M.

Does this mean the Wolves can't offer any more than that to Kirilenko? He has a cap hold of 11.7M listed, but since he was only with the team for 1 year, they can only exceed the cap up to the LLE or something, right?

Edit: Budinger signed with the Wolves for 3 years, $16M. I believe this takes up all of their remaining cap space. This means the Spurs can offer much more than the Wolves can, I think. Who else is in the running for Kirilenko?

[DesignatedT]

I'm not sure where the best place is to ask this question, so here goes. (Info from ShamSports: http://data.shamsports.com/content/pages/data/salaries/timberwolves.jsp)

What is Minnesota's cap situation like? Kirilenko opted out, Roy will be waived (since he didn't meet games or minutes benchmarks, his salary is unguaranteed), and Steimsma, Cunningham, and Gelabale are all unguaranteed or have team options.

Adding up their guaranteed salaries (Love, Williams, Barea, Ridnour, Rubio, Shved, Lee, Johnson) gives about $39.3M. Adding cap holds (Pekovic 8.8M, Cunningham 2.7M, draft picks 3M) gives $53.8M. This leaves less than $5M in cap space with a cap of $58.5M.

Does this mean the Wolves can't offer any more than that to Kirilenko? He has a cap hold of 11.7M listed, but since he was only with the team for 1 year, they can only exceed the cap up to the LLE or something, right?

Edit: Budinger signed with the Wolves for 3 years, $16M. I believe this takes up all of their remaining cap space. This means the Spurs can offer much more than the Wolves can, I think. Who else is in the running for Kirilenko?

Bruno

[Chinook]

I'm not sure where the best place is to ask this question, so here goes. (Info from ShamSports: http://data.shamsports.com/content/pages/data/salaries/timberwolves.jsp)

What is Minnesota's cap situation like? Kirilenko opted out, Roy will be waived (since he didn't meet games or minutes benchmarks, his salary is unguaranteed), and Steimsma, Cunningham, and Gelabale are all unguaranteed or have team options.

Adding up their guaranteed salaries (Love, Williams, Barea, Ridnour, Rubio, Shved, Lee, Johnson) gives about $39.3M. Adding cap holds (Pekovic 8.8M, Cunningham 2.7M, draft picks 3M) gives $53.8M. This leaves less than $5M in cap space with a cap of $58.5M.

Does this mean the Wolves can't offer any more than that to Kirilenko? He has a cap hold of 11.7M listed, but since he was only with the team for 1 year, they can only exceed the cap up to the LLE or something, right?

Edit: Budinger signed with the Wolves for 3 years, $16M. I believe this takes up all of their remaining cap space. This means the Spurs can offer much more than the Wolves can, I think. Who else is in the running for Kirilenko?

AK is a non-Bird free agent right now, so the Wolves should still be able to beat the Spurs' offer. Since Budinger is a Bird free agent, they don't have to worry about him affecting their cap space. Here's how it's explained in the CBA FAQ:


NON-BIRD EXCEPTION -- This is also a component of the Veteran Free Agent exception. Its name is somewhat of a misnomer, since Non-Bird really is a form of Bird rights. Players who qualify for this exception are called "Non-Qualifying Veteran Free Agents" in the CBA. They are veteran free agents who are neither Qualifying Veteran Free Agents nor Early Qualifying Veteran Free Agents, and include the following:

Players who finished the season with a given team, who have played no more than one season without clearing waivers or changing teams as a free agent.
Players who were Early Bird free agents, but whose team renounced its right to use the Early Bird exception to re-sign the player.
Players who were to be Larry Bird or Early Bird free agents, were playing on one-year contracts, and were traded mid-season.

This exception allows a team to re-sign its own free agent to a salary starting at up to 120% of his salary in the previous season2 (not over the maximum salary, of course), 120% of the minimum salary, or the amount needed to tender a qualifying offer (if the player is a restricted free agent -- see question number 43 (http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q43)), whichever is greater. Raises are limited to 4.5% of the salary in the first year of the contract, and contracts are limited to four seasons when this exception is used.A partial season counts as a full season for the tenure calculation related to Bird rights. If a team signs another team's free agent to a rest-of-season contract mid-way through the season, then at the end of that season the player is a non-Bird free agent.Starting January 10 of each season, this exception begins to reduce in value. See question number 26 (http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q26) for details.

[Chinook]

I don't believe Minnesota's gone under the cap this season, so they still have their exceptions for him and Pek.

[spurraider21]

how far above the cap are the wolves willing to go, though? With the signing of Buddinger and Pek set to make somewhere around Tiago money (probably even more), they will be hovering right around the cap

[Seventyniner]

Thanks Chinook. :toast

So the reason that the Wolves can match or beat a Spurs offer is that AK would be taking a pay cut. If AK had only made, say, $3M last season, the Wolves could only go up to $3.6M (120% of $3M).

Now the playing time issue with Budinger in the fold is another thing entirely.

[Chinook]

Thanks Chinook. :toast

So the reason that the Wolves can match or beat a Spurs offer is that AK would be taking a pay cut. If AK had only made, say, $3M last season, the Wolves could only go up to $3.6M (120% of $3M).

Now the playing time issue with Budinger in the fold is another thing entirely.

Yeah, the Wolves can use a non-Bird exception to pay Kirilenko up to $11.7 Million next season. Since the Spurs don't have that kind of cap space, they can't outbid Minnesota.

However, what you said about the cap is interesting, because the Wolves are apparently going after Kevin Martin. They don't have the money to sign him unless they do a sign-and-trade. A three-team deal could be struck to send AK to the Spurs, Martin to the Wolves and a trade exception (and picks) to OKC. The Thunder would then get some leeway to replace Martin in addition to having the MLE.

[spurraider21]

Wolves have reportedly thrown 4 years/30 million at Kevin Martin

[CGD]

Yeah, the Wolves can use a non-Bird exception to pay Kirilenko up to $11.7 Million next season. Since the Spurs don't have that kind of cap space, they can't outbid Minnesota.

However, what you said about the cap is interesting, because the Wolves are apparently going after Kevin Martin. They don't have the money to sign him unless they do a sign-and-trade. A three-team deal could be struck to send AK to the Spurs, Martin to the Wolves and a trade exception (and picks) to OKC. The Thunder would then get some leeway to replace Martin in addition to having the MLE.

hopefully it would only require the spurs sending two seconds like in the case of Reddick.

[Chinook]

hopefully it would only require the spurs sending two seconds like in the case of Reddick.

Less than that. The Wolves would need to do the trade as much as the Spurs would. It may just be a highly protected second.

[Seventyniner]

Yeah, the Wolves can use a non-Bird exception to pay Kirilenko up to $11.7 Million next season. Since the Spurs don't have that kind of cap space, they can't outbid Minnesota.

However, what you said about the cap is interesting, because the Wolves are apparently going after Kevin Martin. They don't have the money to sign him unless they do a sign-and-trade. A three-team deal could be struck to send AK to the Spurs, Martin to the Wolves and a trade exception (and picks) to OKC. The Thunder would then get some leeway to replace Martin in addition to having the MLE.

This could be done non-simultaneously, right? Wolves sign-and-trade Kirilenko to the Spurs for a protected second-rounder, giving the Wolves a TE that OC signs-and-trades Kevin Martin into. This leaves OC with their own TE. Better for all parties than straight signings, and it looks like the Wolves can't sign Kevin Martin outright anyway.

[Chinook]

This could be done non-simultaneously, right? Wolves sign-and-trade Kirilenko to the Spurs for a protected second-rounder, giving the Wolves a TE that OC signs-and-trades Kevin Martin into. This leaves OC with their own TE. Better for all parties than straight signings, and it looks like the Wolves can't sign Kevin Martin outright anyway.

Yes, the trades can be done separately, but it reduces the amount of money the teams can take back in the trades. If I understand correctly a TE is only for the player's salary, so there aren't any matching exceptions like there are in simultaneous trades.

A big simultaneous trade could help the Spurs get AK even if they stay over the cap. For example.

If the Spurs send Bonner to Minnesota, Mills to OKC and receive AK at a starting salary of $8 Million. By trading without using cap space, the Spurs can sign Ginobili for whatever they want and still keep the MLE handy.

The Wolves S&T AK to the Spurs and receive Bonner and Martin for $7 Million. They'd be able to do this, because they'd be allowed to take back up to $13 Million for AK in a simultaneous deal.

OKC gets Mills and a either a trade exception of about $5.9 Million or if they involve another team, they can get a player like Ellis making up to $9.9 Million.

So all teams can benefit making a huge trade, but the Spurs and Wolves could be fine just doing a simple one by themselves if they're smart about it.

[Seventyniner]

Yes, the trades can be done separately, but it reduces the amount of money the teams can take back in the trades. If I understand correctly a TE is only for the player's salary, so there aren't any matching exceptions like there are in simultaneous trades.

A big simultaneous trade could help the Spurs get AK even if they stay over the cap. For example.

If the Spurs send Bonner to Minnesota, Mills to OKC and receive AK at a starting salary of $8 Million. By trading without using cap space, the Spurs can sign Ginobili for whatever they want and still keep the MLE handy.

The Wolves S&T AK to the Spurs and receive Bonner and Martin for $7 Million. They'd be able to do this, because they'd be allowed to take back up to $13 Million for AK in a simultaneous deal.

OKC gets Mills and a either a trade exception of about $5.9 Million or if they involve another team, they can get a player like Ellis making up to $9.9 Million.

So all teams can benefit making a huge trade, but the Spurs and Wolves could be fine just doing a simple one by themselves if they're smart about it.

Good points. The Spurs might balk at the larger scenario as it would help the Thunder, and the smaller trade just between the Spurs and Wolves would still benefit the Wolves enough to where they would perhaps do it.


I'm still wondering how much the Spurs would be willing to offer and whether other teams with cap space would be willing to beat that. It looks like contract length is the most important thing to Kirilenko, but title contention is a card that the Spurs can play.

[Seventyniner]

It gets stranger...the Wolves have evidently agreed to a contract with Kevin Martin: 4 years and $28M or $30M depending on the source.

http://hoopshype.com/twitter/media.html

One of the tweets there says that the Wolves would have to renounce Kirilenko to make that happen. I don't see how the Wolves have the cap space even then.

It's time for the Spurs to work the phones with the Wolves if they really want Kirilenko. Having to sign him via cap space is much more difficult than a sign-and-trade, even though that sign-and-trade would have to morph into Chinook's idea of Martin to MIN/Kirilenko+TE to SA/TE+pick? to OC.

[Chinook]

Good points. The Spurs might balk at the larger scenario as it would help the Thunder, and the smaller trade just between the Spurs and Wolves would still benefit the Wolves enough to where they would perhaps do it.


I'm still wondering how much the Spurs would be willing to offer and whether other teams with cap space would be willing to beat that. It looks like contract length is the most important thing to Kirilenko, but title contention is a card that the Spurs can play.

I don't think the Spurs have any qualms about spending the rest of their cap on Ginobili and Kirilenko. So it really depends on how much Ginobili takes. If he wants less than $6 Million, then I think the Spurs will be able to beat all other offers for him. I don't any team can really say he's worth more than $7 Million a year after seeing him the last two seasons (or rather, not seeing him the season before last). If Ginobili demands to be paid in the $8 Million range, or if Neal comes back, then the team may be forced to either try to sign Kirilenko to the MLE or to try to trade for him.

Large S&T deals like that are pretty rare. The last one I recall was the Marion/O'Neal/Turkoglu/Carter deal a few years ago. There are so many contingencies and moving parts that it's really hard to pull off. But who knows what's going to happen? It really depends on how the Thunder go about trying to replace Martin and how willing a fourth team will be to S&T that replacement (like JR Smith) to OKC.

[Chinook]

It gets stranger...the Wolves have evidently agreed to a contract with Kevin Martin: 4 years and $28M or $30M depending on the source.

http://hoopshype.com/twitter/media.html

One of the tweets there says that the Wolves would have to renounce Kirilenko to make that happen. I don't see how the Wolves have the cap space even then.

It's time for the Spurs to work the phones with the Wolves if they really want Kirilenko. Having to sign him via cap space is much more difficult than a sign-and-trade, even though that sign-and-trade would have to morph into Chinook's idea of Martin to MIN/Kirilenko+TE to SA/TE+pick? to OC.

Yeah, I don't know if the Wolves have their amnesty clause still, but if they don't the only way they can make the cap space is by losing Pek (which may not even give them enough), and that's just an awful concession to make for Kevin Martin.

Maybe the teams already have something figured out.

[Nathan89]

Spurs fans last remaining great hope for the off-season.

[elemento]

Yeah, I don't know if the Wolves have their amnesty clause still, but if they don't the only way they can make the cap space is by losing Pek (which may not even give them enough), and that's just an awful concession to make for Kevin Martin.

Maybe the teams already have something figured out.

They don't. They used it on Darko. And there's no way they let Pek go.