rasho, the defensive giant?

[itzsoweezee]

how did this dude get a reputation among spurs fans as having some sort of impressive defensive ability? he doesn't completely suck on defense, but i watched this season and didn't see him do anything special on defense. the spurs beat the two best teams in the league in the playoffs basically without him. so what does he bring on defense that the spurs can't live without and that is worth suffering his offensive ineptness?

[Trainwreck2100]

worst post ever

[itzsoweezee]

worst post ever

i guess you must have no argument

[xcoriate]

theres no point presenting an argument when your opinion is as ridiculous as that.

Most of what Rasho does is not about numbers, look at his defensive rotations, then compare to Nazrs and you'll see. Thats all you can do, if you can't see it...

[Solid D]

Rasho does a lot of the little things to make a difference defensively and offensively.

When the Spurs perimeter players force the dribble to the baseline, Rasho's help is there and on time. That just adds to the trust and keeps the defense solid (not breaking down).
http://www.spursinfo.com/photos/spurs/041201/041201_9.jpg

Rasho consistently sets good screens and his seals for the penetrators, providing better lane access, are the best on the team - bar none.

http://www.spursinfo.com/photos/spurs/041209/041209_4.jpg

[spvrs]

What is this?? it's like people here think Rasho is a first team NBA defensive player... that pop lays his hands on anyone and they magically become a great defender.

I watch lots of games. Rasho is compeletely mediocre. If he blocks someone the opposing player then procedes to posterize him... it actually engergizes. When TD blocks someone they totally disapear (see Martin, Keynon).

Why is anyone calling this guy out on a good post? is there anything weaker than disagreeing with you only argument being 'uh... do you PLAY organized basketball?' only thing worse is 'do you even watch the games?' .

Look at the stats, in the playoffs we played the best defense of the year and Rasho on the bench.

One more thing, and it's not exactly his fault. Rasho ALWAYS gets called for fouls, even on the clean blocks. TD get's away with some, Rasho rarely get's a fair call. It's kind of like David Robinson -- whatever reason the guy get's no respect from the refs.

[travis2]

What is this?? it's like people here think Rasho is a first team NBA defensive player... that pop lays his hands on anyone and they magically become a great defender.

I watch lots of games. Rasho is compeletely mediocre. If he blocks someone the opposing player then procedes to posterize him... it actually engergizes. When TD blocks someone they totally disapear (see Martin, Keynon).

Why is anyone calling this guy out on a good post? is there anything weaker than disagreeing with you only argument being 'uh... do you PLAY organized basketball?' only thing worse is 'do you even watch the games?' .

Look at the stats, in the playoffs we played the best defense of the year and Rasho on the bench.

Ummmm...the only reason you think the "do you even watch the games" comeback is bad is because you obviously don't watch the games.

Best defense of the year in the playoffs? :lmao Hardly. Even the stats don't back you up there...but I actually watched the games. And our defense was not as good as it was during the season. It was good enough to get over the top.

[spvrs]

Ummmm...the only reason you think the "do you even watch the games" comeback is bad is because you obviously don't watch the games.

sweet take dude! You obiously have never played organized basketball...

what are these stats you're talking about? I think we held teams at their lowest shooting percentages and we rebounded better than the regular season... maybe you can show me that that's not true...

P.S. I think Rasho's agent judged the battle blog

[Solid D]

Rasho's a good player. He doesn't dunk when he should and he's not real physical but he's still a good 7'0" basketball player who blocks shots, rebounds and he doesn't blow his assignments. You either see that or you're catching the games on SportsCenter.

[MI21]

The reputation is justified because you can see the difference defensively when Nazr is playing compared to Rasho. Things happen easier in the paint for the other team when Nazr is playing, and you can see the difference straight away when Rasho checks in.

[mcornelio]

Rasho Plays Like Me, Sure I Dont Make 20 PPG But I Set Screens, Pick And Rolls And Other Small Things That Give The Scorers On My Team A Hell Of An Easier Time, And You Can See The Difference, When I Dont Play Players Shooting Percentages Are Much Lower Just Because I Get My Team Easier BAskets And About 15 Rebs A Game

[Solid D]

Rasho Plays Like Me, Sure I Dont Make 20 PPG But I Set Screens, Pick And Rolls And Other Small Things That Give The Scorers On My Team A Hell Of An Easier Time, And You Can See The Difference, When I Dont Play Players Shooting Percentages Are Much Lower Just Because I Get My Team Easier BAskets And About 15 Rebs A Game

The exact example I was thinking of. :)

Oh, and Rack MI21.

[spvrs]

You either see that or you're catching the games on SportsCenter.

hmmm... I watch the games so this is not a true statement. could it be that it's because I've never play organized basketball?

either the 'small things' shows up in the win loss or it doesn't matter. Manu does the 'small things' and we win. Rasho I dont' see these showing up in wins, especially in the playoffs... Maybe I have to wear homer glasses while I'm watching the games? Or maybe you guys are just so smart that you are able to prove that even if we lose more with him playing he's sweet...

[travis2]

sweet take dude! You obiously have never played organized basketball...

what are these stats you're talking about? I think we held teams at their lowest shooting percentages and we rebounded better than the regular season... maybe you can show me that that's not true...

P.S. I think Rasho's agent judged the battle blog

Wrong again! You're on a roll!

And you also need to learn to read. The ONLY team the Spurs held below the regular season mark in FG% was Denver. Shooting % by Seattle and Phoenix were both WELL above the regular season. Detroit was also higher, but not as much.

[Solid D]

hmmm... I watch the games so this is not a true statement. could it be that it's because I've never play organized basketball?

either the 'small things' shows up in the win loss or it doesn't matter. Manu does the 'small things' and we win. Rasho I dont' see these showing up in wins, especially in the playoffs.

Define win. The Spurs were 47-13 before Rasho went down in PHX. I'm not arguing against the Mohammed for Rose trade. That helped the Spurs in the playoffs. Rasho is still a good player who contributed as a starter to wins, including a major contribution in a huge blowout of PHX in SA in December.

[spvrs]

win = your points > their points.

contribute = production / salary

win playoffs > win regular season

I'm not saying that Rasho is a 'bad' player, what I'm saying is he's not worth his salary and if something crazy like he went down, even in the playoffs we would still probably win it all (I can't prove that).

I'm also saying the 'little things' work against him. He doesn't get calls. His blocks inspire not defeat... He disappears for stretches, he rarely plays in 4th Q even when he's healthy, he's not a 'gamer'.

His salary is a liablity assuming that peter holt still owns the team and that some homer from this forum doesn't buy the team and says... 'DAMN... the possiblity o losing 20 million per for the next 4 years doesn't scare me a bit... RC sign whoever you want!'

[Solid D]

I'm not saying that Rasho is a 'bad' player, what I'm saying is he's not worth his salary and if something crazy like he went down, even in the playoffs we would still probably win it all (I can't prove that).

I'm also saying the 'little things' work against him. He doesn't get calls. His blocks inspire not defeat... He disappears for stretches, he rarely plays in 4th Q even when he's healthy, he's not a 'gamer'.

His salary is a liablity assuming that peter holt still owns the team and that some homer from this forum doesn't buy the team and says... 'DAMN... the possiblity o losing 20 million per for the next 4 years doesn't scare me a bit... RC sign whoever you want!'

If that's what you are saying, it's a better argument than previous ones.

[spvrs]

If he were a great defender he'd be worth 7 million per and would be starting. it's a continuation of the same point

[travis2]

If he were a great defender he'd be worth 7 million per and would be starting. it's a continuation of the same point

Your source for that figure is...?

And you don't know he won't be starting next season.

[ChumpDumper]

He could very well start next season.

[velik_m]

how did this dude get a reputation among spurs fans as having some sort of impressive defensive ability? he doesn't completely suck on defense, but i watched this season and didn't see him do anything special on defense. the spurs beat the two best teams in the league in the playoffs basically without him. so what does he bring on defense that the spurs can't live without and that is worth suffering his offensive ineptness?

How?

Here are some numbers from

http://www.82games.com/0405SAS.HTM

DEFENSE:

effective FG% Allowed
player ON Court OFF Court Net
Duncan 43.8% 47.1% -3.3%
Nesterovic 43.8% 46.4% -2.6%
Ben Wallace 45.4% 47.6% -2.2%*
Bowen 45.2% 45.4% -0.3%
Parker 45.2% 45.3% -0.1%
Udrih 45.2% 45.3% -0.1%
Barry 45.4% 45.1% +0.3%
Nazr 46.3% 45.1% +1.2%
Brown 46.2% 44.8% +1.4%
Horry 46.4% 44.6% +1.9%
Ginobili 51.4% 46.7% +4.6%

Defensive rebounding
player ON Court OFF Court Net
Barry 72.8% 69.2% +3.6%
Duncan 71.9% 69.2% +2.8%
Parker 71.5% 69.0% +2.5%
Nesterovic 72.0% 69.7% +2.4%
Bowen 71.2% 69.9% +1.2%
Ben Wallace 70.8% 69.9% +0.9%*
Ginobili 70.8% 70.7% +0.2%
Brown 70.0% 71.1% -1.1%
Udrih 68.9% 71.5% -2.7%
Horry 68.2% 72.0% -3.8%
Nazr 65.3% 71.4% -6.2%

Defense: Pts per 100 Poss.
player ON Court OFF Court Net
Duncan 95.8 105.0 -9.1
Ginobili 97.1 103.5 -6.4
Nesterovic 96.8 102.5 -5.7
Ben Wallace 100.6 104.2 -3.5*
Bowen 99.4 100.9 -1.5
Parker 99.5 100.9 -1.4
Horry 99.9 99.9 -0.0
Udrih 100.9 99.5 +1.4
Barry 100.7 99.3 +1.5
Brown 103.4 98.3 +5.1
Nazr 109.4 98.8 +10.7

* I added DPOY just for comparison: Rasho is worth more in defense to spurs than big ben is to detroit.

as for his offensive "ineptness":

OFFENSE:
Effective FG%
player ON Court OFF Court Net
Duncan 51.5% 46.5% +5.0%
Ginobili 51.4% 46.7% +4.6%
Nesterovic 50.6% 48.2% +2.4%
Horry 50.2% 48.8% +1.3%
Parker 49.4% 49.0% +0.4%
Bowen 49.5% 48.8% +0.7%
Udrih 49.0% 49.4% -0.4%
Barry 48.7% 49.8% -1.1%
Brown 48.1% 49.8% -1.7%
Nazr 43.3% 50.1% -6.8%

Offensive Rebounding
player ON Court OFF Court Net
Nazr 36.6% 30.3% +6.3%
Ginobili 31.8% 30.2% +1.6%
Nesterovic 31.6% 30.7% +0.9%
Barry 31.5% 30.7% +0.7%
Udrih 31.5% 30.9% +0.6%
Duncan 31.1% 31.1% +0.0%
Parker 30.7% 31.8% -1.1%
Brown 29.8% 31.6% -1.8%
Bowen 30.1% 32.9% -2.8%
Horry 29.3% 32.0% -2.8%

Offense: Pts per 100 Poss.
player ON Court OFF Court Net
Ginobili 113.7 102.9 +10.8
Duncan 112.6 104.4 +8.2
Horry 110.8 107.9 +2.9
Nesterovic 109.9 108.1 +1.8
Parker 108.9 108.9 +0.1
Bowen 108.6 109.6 -1.0
Barry 108.0 109.6 -1.7
Udrih 108.7 109.0 -0.3
Brown 105.9 110.3 -4.4
Nazr 103.2 109.6 -6.4

Nesterovic is more of an impact on offense then for example parker...

In conclusion: It's not so much what Rasho does, it's what he does FOR THE TEAM.

[spvrs]

hmmm... let me rephrase... he'd be worth 7 million per year (and his defense wouldn't be overrated) if he went down and we didn't win it all with a Center that had 1/2 a season to learn the system.



* I added DPOY just for comparison: Rasho is worth more in defense to spurs than big ben is to detroit.

why doesn't he play in the forth even when he is healthy? did you see detriots recorde when BB went down? you think they would have won the championship without BB??

[ChumpDumper]

why doesn't he play in the forth even when he is healthy?Neither does Nazr. What's your point?

[mcornelio]

you rasho haters have no clue what a basketball team is, its not about 5 guys who can score 30 points each, its about 5 guys who can all do their jobs... its like saying bruce bowen shouldnt play becuase he cant score sure rasho is an offensive underacheiving out of shape center, but i urge you to find me a center with his size who switches on every pick and is always on his assignment, nazr doesnt do that most of the other centers in the league dont do that exept the really fit guys.. its not like we would be breaking the bank by keeping rasho, you people are quick to hate but ull be hard pressed to find another big man like him for that price

[ChumpDumper]

Rasho was in pretty good shape most of the season. He's just really, really slow.

[velik_m]

Rasho was in pretty good shape most of the season. He's just really, really slow.

comes with the size/weigth
i dont think duncan is much faster...

[spvrs]

Neither does Nazr. What's your point?
huh? dude do I have to put 2+2 together for you all the time (it's 4)

or you could always go with your stand by... distill my argument into something it's not.
how about 'so you're arguing that the towel boy is better than Rasho...'

are Nazr contract and Rasho's the same? IF Nazr doesn't play in the fourth does that mean Rasho's defense is good?

[spvrs]

you rasho haters have no clue what a basketball team is, its not about 5 guys who can score 30 points each, its
rasho haters come in all differnet stripes. I dont' care about stats, I like wins in the playoffs. I like contracts that arent' overpriced. his stats happen to suck and I don't think his magical 'little things' amount to squat (especially since the negative 'little things')

[ChumpDumper]

You were comparing Rasho to Nazr throughout the entire thread.

It's completely relevant.

Nazr must also be worthless if he doesn't play in the fourth.
are Nazr contract and Rasho's the same?Close enough per year.

[spvrs]

Close enough per year.
not that 5 million compared to 7 million is that close -- but how is that relevant at all?. Rasho is signed through 2009... Why do you think you can trade someone who's contract is ending easily where as someone like Steph M. can't get traded?


You were comparing Rasho to Nazr throughout the entire thread.
so... why does that mean I have to explain why Nazr doesn't play in the 4th?

can you show me where 'throughout the entire thread' I'm comparing him to Nazr?

[ChumpDumper]

Why do you think you can trade someone who's contract is ending easily where as someone like Steph M. can't get traded? Who's talking about trades?

so... why does that mean I have to explain why Nazr doesn't play in the 4th?You don't have to explain that -- that's obvious. You need to explain why Nazr is a good center if he doesn't play in the fourth -- that's your logic. In fact, anyone not named Duncan or Horry would suck according to that logic.
can you show me where 'throughout the entire thread' I'm comparing him to Nazr?Scroll back.

[spvrs]

Who's talking about trades?
your the 'tard that says their contracts are almost the same. I was showing you what a assanine comment that was


You need to explain why Nazr is a good center if he doesn't play in the fourth
why? I'm arguing that Rasho's D isn't that good. Nazr is obvioulsy better than Rasho and Nazr doesn't play in the 4th, so it just shows you how crappy Rasho is.



Scroll back.
I did that's why I asked you

[ChumpDumper]

your the 'tard that says their contracts are almost the same.They are, and if we keep Nazr, he could actually make more.
Nazr is obvioulsy better than RashoYou still have yet to prove that in any way defensively.
I did that's why I asked youThen scroll back three sentences.

[spvrs]

can you put me on the ignore?

this feature can't seem to reach up to your hobby horse

[travis2]

No, I think ChumpDumper is showing you how uninformed your opinions are, that's all.

[itzsoweezee]

How?

Here are some numbers from

http://www.82games.com/0405SAS.HTM

DEFENSE:

effective FG% Allowed
player ON Court OFF Court Net
Duncan 43.8% 47.1% -3.3%
Nesterovic 43.8% 46.4% -2.6%
Ben Wallace 45.4% 47.6% -2.2%*
Bowen 45.2% 45.4% -0.3%
Parker 45.2% 45.3% -0.1%
Udrih 45.2% 45.3% -0.1%
Barry 45.4% 45.1% +0.3%
Nazr 46.3% 45.1% +1.2%
Brown 46.2% 44.8% +1.4%
Horry 46.4% 44.6% +1.9%
Ginobili 51.4% 46.7% +4.6%

Defensive rebounding
player ON Court OFF Court Net
Barry 72.8% 69.2% +3.6%
Duncan 71.9% 69.2% +2.8%
Parker 71.5% 69.0% +2.5%
Nesterovic 72.0% 69.7% +2.4%
Bowen 71.2% 69.9% +1.2%
Ben Wallace 70.8% 69.9% +0.9%*
Ginobili 70.8% 70.7% +0.2%
Brown 70.0% 71.1% -1.1%
Udrih 68.9% 71.5% -2.7%
Horry 68.2% 72.0% -3.8%
Nazr 65.3% 71.4% -6.2%

Defense: Pts per 100 Poss.
player ON Court OFF Court Net
Duncan 95.8 105.0 -9.1
Ginobili 97.1 103.5 -6.4
Nesterovic 96.8 102.5 -5.7
Ben Wallace 100.6 104.2 -3.5*
Bowen 99.4 100.9 -1.5
Parker 99.5 100.9 -1.4
Horry 99.9 99.9 -0.0
Udrih 100.9 99.5 +1.4
Barry 100.7 99.3 +1.5
Brown 103.4 98.3 +5.1
Nazr 109.4 98.8 +10.7

* I added DPOY just for comparison: Rasho is worth more in defense to spurs than big ben is to detroit.

as for his offensive "ineptness":

OFFENSE:
Effective FG%
player ON Court OFF Court Net
Duncan 51.5% 46.5% +5.0%
Ginobili 51.4% 46.7% +4.6%
Nesterovic 50.6% 48.2% +2.4%
Horry 50.2% 48.8% +1.3%
Parker 49.4% 49.0% +0.4%
Bowen 49.5% 48.8% +0.7%
Udrih 49.0% 49.4% -0.4%
Barry 48.7% 49.8% -1.1%
Brown 48.1% 49.8% -1.7%
Nazr 43.3% 50.1% -6.8%

Offensive Rebounding
player ON Court OFF Court Net
Nazr 36.6% 30.3% +6.3%
Ginobili 31.8% 30.2% +1.6%
Nesterovic 31.6% 30.7% +0.9%
Barry 31.5% 30.7% +0.7%
Udrih 31.5% 30.9% +0.6%
Duncan 31.1% 31.1% +0.0%
Parker 30.7% 31.8% -1.1%
Brown 29.8% 31.6% -1.8%
Bowen 30.1% 32.9% -2.8%
Horry 29.3% 32.0% -2.8%

Offense: Pts per 100 Poss.
player ON Court OFF Court Net
Ginobili 113.7 102.9 +10.8
Duncan 112.6 104.4 +8.2
Horry 110.8 107.9 +2.9
Nesterovic 109.9 108.1 +1.8
Parker 108.9 108.9 +0.1
Bowen 108.6 109.6 -1.0
Barry 108.0 109.6 -1.7
Udrih 108.7 109.0 -0.3
Brown 105.9 110.3 -4.4
Nazr 103.2 109.6 -6.4

Nesterovic is more of an impact on offense then for example parker...

In conclusion: It's not so much what Rasho does, it's what he does FOR THE TEAM.


these stats are completely stupid. do you really believe rasho is more important to the spurs than ben wallace is to the pistons?

rasho is an average defensive player. he rotates well, but he still gets abused one-on-one in the post. he's unatheletic and opposing players exploit that. he benefits a lot by playing next to duncan, and he doesn't really do anything exceptionally well. at least not anything that outweighs his offensive deficiencies.

[ChumpDumper]

these stats are completely stupid.lol
he still gets abused one-on-one in the post.By whom? More than Nazr?
he benefits a lot by playing next to duncanAnd that's a bad thing?

[travis2]

Sometimes you just need to meet the barbarians head on...

http://www.mwscomp.com/movies/grail/jpgs/onetwofi.jpg

[batman2883]

I agree with what was said earlier, im not a Rasho fan at all, he does make his presence known but he still needs to be traded for someone a little more athletic.

[zeleni]

these stats are completely stupid. do you really believe rasho is more important to the spurs than ben wallace is to the pistons?

rasho is an average defensive player. he rotates well, but he still gets abused one-on-one in the post. he's unatheletic and opposing players exploit that. he benefits a lot by playing next to duncan, and he doesn't really do anything exceptionally well. at least not anything that outweighs his offensive deficiencies.

Let us say you are right. Stats we should not look at. Now, that means Nazr is better b/c he is not a defensive monster, but rather a junk-picking mashine with a ofensive rebound. And Rasho is worse the Nazr for having a more important priorities then junkball catching and dunking.

What can be gained from Nazr? More scoring in defense and offense. That even things up for him. What remains for Rasho? Team is more non-nonsense oriented, with more concentrated Big Three. Nazr is a warrior, Rasho is a mechanic. Geting Nazr is gettin Ben Wallace without the plusses.

And what is then Rasho? Ben Wallace without afro warfare attitude and a little more skill. Just a coldblodded dude. I wouldn't complain about such a guy.

[itzsoweezee]

And what is then Rasho? Ben Wallace without afro warfare attitude and a little more skill. Just a coldblodded dude. I wouldn't complain about such a guy.

wtf? this is the crap i'm talking about. rasho nesterovic is coldblooded? more skilled than ben wallace? what exactly is rasho more skilled than ben wallace at? rotating on defense, lol? motherfu*ker is 7 feet tall and can't grab more than 6 rebounds a game.

[travis2]

but as Spurs fans we must pretend like he has defensive skills


No, just knowledgeable fans who watch the games. :)

[velik_m]

Rasho sucks, plain and simple


but as Spurs fans we must pretend like he has defensive skills

I am past that though, Rasho sucks

well if he sucks so much, why does the team play better when he's on the court then when he's off?

[travis2]

how many minutes did Rasho play in the post-season?


10min? maybe?


And the reasons for this have been posted in other threads ad infinitum...

[zeleni]

wtf? this is the crap i'm talking about. rasho nesterovic is coldblooded? more skilled than ben wallace? what exactly is rasho more skilled than ben wallace at? rotating on defense, lol? motherfu*ker is 7 feet tall and can't grab more than 6 rebounds a game.

Ben Wallace is a center that can only dunk and know most of all how to wrestle in the paint. Rasho know to make a decent jumper. skills

Coldblodded. He is by far a guy, that is not intense in a game. He plays only with his head, and not with his emotions.

Crap? Tim Duncan is a great player couse he won championships and still contained his ego for even more success. Manu is a great guy, who won things, couse he abnormally loves the game and loves to win. Horry has balls of metal, Tony has legs that cannot keep still, Bowen is a giant wasp around a great player, Brent a soft shooter, why would then think that a guy who does his job and does not pretend he is more then a role player, be a big part of a well-oiled mashine that is a NBA contender/champion team?

Personality is not crap. Nazr is a great warrior with more attitude then height. Rasho is a mellow working-man that loves the Spur philosophy and is hungry to be a part of it? Nazr's attitude could be all about a better contract. Rasho's cannot. And that's why coldblodded is not crap. He thought Nazr his role and cheered as hell. Now, what is not to like about that?

[SpizdiStrann]

com´ on people... i think about 2 things:: are you totally blind, or you just don´t watch the game.. . or with other words-- you just watch dunks, and passes. .. rasho can grab much more than 6 reb.. he´s not the best rebounder ever play basketball, but he´s tall and mobile and he have very quick hands- and also very good cordination with moving. expecially his hands.. that´s why he is such a shootblocker.. but the reason why he does not rebound is somewhere else. a year or two ago, not much later when he signed with spurs, he has somehow get in his mind that he has allready reached everything he dreamed about.. he is playing next to tim in a very good and friendly team. and after that, he also decided to play let´s say a special player.. team player.. someone who just don´t care about scoring, about his numbers, and on and on.. and since than he helped team in other ways.. but in one moment that comes so far, that he lost himself. he´s not the same rasho as before he came to SA. before ,he was far better offensively than nazr will ever be.. but that´s another story. point is, that rasho will now grab rebound only when he is sure that his teammates will not be able to catch the ball. and that makes his numbers so weak. he get in his mind that he need to become the most unselfish player, ever to play basketball. i´m sure if he would want, he would gram more than 10+ reb pg, and if he would like to score his numbers would rise quickly. but he is rasho and he will stay rasho, unless he change his mind during the summerbreak. i hope he will, and comes back fresh and ready to really play basketball. . and if he does i´m quite sure that he will start 82 regular games next season, and help his team to another title. if he will still sux.. than its better for him and spurs to trade him. you really don´t need that good player to sit on the bench. he can be all star center,, -but only if HE want