Joey Crawford reffing game 2

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

:td

[T Park]

Nice.

Best ref a road team could ask for. :tu

[TheGreatYacht]

I don't think the refs have been assigned for game 2 or at least they have not been made public. Source OP?

[JP le Requin]

the question now is :

"what is our record with uncle Joey reffing?"

[acl14320]

At work so cant post the pic of the tweet but Ben Golliver @blazersedge just tweeted that Joey Crawford was seen checking into a Miami Hotel early this morning.

Now two things immediately come up here

1) Id much rather have Joey reffing when were on the road then when were at home

2) I really cant tell if this will favor the spurs, Joey wont be intimidated by the crowd and that would lead me to believe the game will be officated fairly but I still cant bring myself to trust the man

anyway just thought I'd pass the info along and :flag::flag::flag:

[SA210]

He shouldn't even be in the league anymore

[SA210]

As I said in the other thread, the man shouldn't even be in the league anymore, period.

[ohmwrecker]

He isn't that troublesome anymore since Stern cut his nuts off.

[spurraider21]

Its been said before and it will be said again, its better to have Crawford on the road than at home, since he is known to specifically do whatever will piss off the home crowd

[dbestpro]

He's rep is being a Spurs hater to being the worse ref you can have as a home team. I think in the end he becomes more painful to the home team because he makes an effort to not be influenced by the crowd to a fault.

[TheGreatYacht]

The are three refs that Spurs fans should be concerned about: Bill Kennedy, Danny Crawford, and Scott Foster. I read somewhere that the Heat are 9-3 in games officiated by Danny Crawford during the past 2 years in the playoffs. Scott Foster was the one that officiated Game 2 of Chicago @ Miami where he ejected Joakim Noah, Tosh Gibson, and handed out like 6 technical fouls. Scott Foster also officiated Game 7 of Pacers @ Heat; nobody talks about this because the Heat blew out the Pacers but Scott Foster was terrible giving almost every call to the Heat. Bill Kennedy screwed us last year of Game 6 @ OKC in the WCF. He also officiated Game 4 of Spurs @ GS where we lost even though the Spurs were more to blame on that game because they beat themselves. Last but not least, Bill Kennedy also officiated Game 2 of Memphis @ San Antonio. That was the game where we had that 15 point lead at halftime and then the refs took over and started giving every call to Memphis. The Grizzlies were in the bonus early on in the 3rd quarter, Tim Duncan got in foul trouble but ended being clutch for us during overtime and got us the win. So yeah I think these three refs are dangerous. They are Stern's puppets.This is something I wrote a couple of days ago just to warn fans of which refs are dangerous to the Spurs.
I actually would like Joey Crawford on Game 2 only IF we win Game 1. I know about Joey's bad history against the Spurs but I've been watching his last 5 games that he's officiated for the Spurs and I actually think that he's done a pretty good job. We've won all games. Last year a lot of people probably blamed Joey Crawford for Game 6 @ OKC but it was actually Bill Kennedy the one who was blowing the whistles.

[Trainwreck2100]

Game 2 is the game you want him reffing said it in the other thread

[TheGreatYacht]

I actually would like Joey Crawford on Game 2 only IF we win Game 1. I know about Joey's bad history against the Spurs but I've been watching his last 5 games that he's officiated for the Spurs and I actually think that he's done a pretty good job. We've won all games. Last year a lot of people probably blamed Joey Crawford for Game 6 @ OKC but it was actually Bill Kennedy the one who was blowing the whistles.This is something I said a couple of days ago on another thread just to warn fans of which refs are anti-Spurs or pro-Heat biased.
The are three refs that Spurs fans should be concerned about: Bill Kennedy, Danny Crawford, and Scott Foster. I read somewhere that the Heat are 9-3 in games officiated by Danny Crawford during the past 2 years in the playoffs. Scott Foster was the one that officiated Game 2 of Chicago @ Miami where he ejected Joakim Noah, Tosh Gibson, and handed out like 6 technical fouls. Scott Foster also officiated Game 7 of Pacers @ Heat; nobody talks about this because the Heat blew out the Pacers but Scott Foster was terrible giving almost every call to the Heat. Bill Kennedy screwed us last year of Game 6 @ OKC in the WCF. He also officiated Game 4 of Spurs @ GS where we lost even though the Spurs were more to blame on that game because they beat themselves. Last but not least, Bill Kennedy also officiated Game 2 of Memphis @ San Antonio. That was the game where we had that 15 point lead at halftime and then the refs took over and started giving every call to Memphis. The Grizzlies were in the bonus early on in the 3rd quarter, Tim Duncan got in foul trouble but ended being clutch for us during overtime and got us the win. So yeah I think these three refs are dangerous. They are Stern's puppets.

[Mugen]

Good news. Now i hope he isn't reffing a possible Game 5 in a 2-2 series.

[Das Texan]

i believe the spurs are undefeated with joey calling games this postseason.


i'll take him for game 2.

[InRareForm]

He was beneficial in the WCF tbh..

[Bill_Brasky]

Joey has been good recently.....

Let's just hope he's not pulling the long con.....

[Spursmania]

Joey needs to retire and Javie needs to come back!

[iminol]

I think, we're 3-0 with Joey Crawford reffing this postseason. Am I right?

[TheGreatYacht]

Joey needs to retire and Javie needs to come back!NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ENPLq6w9x_o

[wildbill2u]

Stern making sure the series goes to the Heat.

[Obstructed_View]

Javie couldn't even say that the foul on Duncan was a bad call.

Last we heard, Joey Crawford was being investigated for disastrous calls. Now we see him in a must-win game for Miami.

[Venti Quattro]

Joey Crawford is a good referee if you're on the road.

[timvp]

I will take him in Game 2. He has been damn fair to the Spurs (perhaps overly fair) in his last handful of games.

[z0sa]

Actually a good thing for the first time maybe ever.

[iminol]

I think, we're 3-0 with Joey Crawford reffing this postseason. Am I right?

I checked and we are 2-0 with Joey this postseason.

[DesignatedT]

Better than having him at home. But this probably sets him up for a potential game 6 or 7.

[eyeh8u]

do refs only get 1 game per finals?

[Obstructed_View]

The way they're doing crews this year, that probably sets up Joey's crew for game 6 and 7. Some combination of Kennedy, Zarba and Brothers will be joining him.

[Brunodf]

:bang People who think this is good are delusional.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Javie couldn't even say that the foul on Duncan was a bad call.

Last we heard, Joey Crawford was being investigated for disastrous calls. Now we see him in a must-win game for Miami.

We have a winner. He'll be doing sterns bidding tomorrow.

[T Park]

I will take him in Game 2. He has been damn fair to the Spurs (perhaps overly fair) in his last handful of games.


Exactly right. Was overly against Memphis I know that.

Best ref you could ask for on the road.

[T Park]

:rolleyes

If he was doing steen's bidding then how did they escape game 6 vs Golden State, a prime time to extend a series 7?

:rolleyes

[GSH]

Crawford is a wildcard. I don't think he's especially biased against the Spurs - he's an equal opportunity game-killer. At the end of a game, if your team wasn't screwed by really bad calls, the other team probably was. BUT... he makes calls that are so bad, you can easily see why people believe the league intentionally fixes games. He makes it easy to believe that he calls against whichever team he is told to, on any given night.

I can post a single video clip that proves what I'm saying. If you're among the doubters, watch the clip and explain how an NBA ref can fuck up so badly and still have the confidence of the league. Please - explain this shit to me.
vaZIAXJJDKQ

Even if you believe that was a foul on Camby, why was Nash on the line?

[ballhog]

Gonna be a lot more whistles.

[GSH]

Here's one more story from BleacherReport. I couldn't find a video for it. But it may be the most egregious call I've ever witnessed in any sport. Worse than ejecting Tim for smiling, because there was clear intent in what Crawford did. You may not believe that the league itself intended to shape the outcome of the game, but you can't deny that Joey Crawford did something specifically because he knew it would affect the outcome of the game. This one is probably the biggest black eye the league has ever received, and by not firing him the next day the league surrendered a lot of credibility.

Read the story - it wasn't the initial call. It was what he did after that, and why. He has no business in zebra stripes anymore.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1131847-why-joey-crawford-is-the-worst-referee-in-the-nba-and-he-is-getting-worse
One specific incident I am reminded of came in the 2004 Western Conference Finals. The Timberwolves were the No.1 seed and were facing the Lakers, the No.2 seed. In a critical moment, Shaq barreled down the lane and completely ran over Wolves' center Mark Madsen. Crawford blew the whistle and indicated offensive foul emphatically right away.

He was called over to the scorer's table and realized he was calling Shaq for his sixth foul, and disqualifying him from play early in the third quarter. He rescinded his call, Target Center exploded, Shaq stayed in the game and we know the rest.


"Wait... that was the 6th on Shaq? Never mind."

[lefty]

Source ??????


I dont think the refs have been assigned yet


:wtf

[jimbo]

I will take him in Game 2. He has been damn fair to the Spurs (perhaps overly fair) in his last handful of games.

This. If anything he's screwed Miami more than anything else. I don't remember which game it was, but he made game a complete mess in one of the Pacers/Miami games he reffed.

I'm not looking forward to all the whistles though. I thought G1 was reffed pretty well.

[FromWayDowntown]

This basically ensures that Dan Crawford and Scott Foster are the crew chiefs for Games 3 and 4 (in some order, though I suspect Foster has Game 4 and would be the crew chief for a Game 7 as well).

As for Joey, better to get him on the road (and my guess is that this means he'd have Game 6 too) which is preferable -- particularly when you've already gotten a road win.

For whatever it's worth, the history of this postseason would suggest that the Game 2 crew is Joey, Bill Kennedy, and Derrick Stafford.

[FromWayDowntown]

I agree that Game 1 was exceptionally well officiated. That crew (or at least McCutchen and Brothers) likely has Game 5.

[Skull-1]

Well, at least our starters will get some rest after the half in Game 2. FML.

[TheGreatYacht]

This basically ensures that Dan Crawford and Scott Foster are the crew chiefs for Games 3 and 4 (in some order, though I suspect Foster has Game 4 and would be the crew chief for a Game 7 as well).

As for Joey, better to get him on the road (and my guess is that this means he'd have Game 6 too) which is preferable -- particularly when you've already gotten a road win.

For whatever it's worth, the history of this postseason would suggest that the Game 2 crew is Joey, Bill Kennedy, and Derrick Stafford.I'm not sure how things work but Bill Kennedy was an alternate/locker room ref for game 1 so I don't know if he'll be eligible for Game 2. I hope not because Bill Kennedy is the Spurs worst enemy. Him and Scott Fosster. Read above on my earlier comment for more details.

[T Park]

I agree that Game 1 was exceptionally well officiated. That crew (or at least McCutchen and Brothers) likely has Game 5.


Agreed. Mcutchen IMO has become a good ref. which is amazing from when he started, our household would say Mcutchen?!? Awwwww no!

Now he's pretty good.

[FromWayDowntown]

I'm not sure how things work but Bill Kennedy was an alternate/locker room ref for game 1 so I don't know if he'll be eligible for Game 2. I hope not because Bill Kennedy is the Spurs worst enemy. Him and Scott Fosster. Read above on my earlier comment for more details.

Last year, the Game 1 alternate worked Game 2. I'd be very surprised if Kennedy wasn't a Finals official this year, so I suspect he's working sonewhere along the line and last year's precedent would suggest that to be Game 2. I would note, though, that Kennedy has worked exclusively with Foster in these playoffs. That might suggest that his actual game assignment gets pushed back to when Foster works; we'll know a lot more when the Game 2 crew is announced.

[milkyway21]

:angel I hope he'll do the same as the last time

[baseline bum]

Its been said before and it will be said again, its better to have Crawford on the road than at home, since he is known to specifically do whatever will piss off the home crowd

What about when he went and threw Don Nelson out for nothing in Game 2 of the 03 WCF? That was the game that got him in trouble with the league first.

[cheguevara]

Joey giveth, Joey taketh away. Anyone saying this is either good or bad is nuts.

[cheguevara]

And those saying JOey on the road is better are also nuts. He ejected a bunch of Bulls in Miami just last time.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I've always had the impression that Crawford is more emotional than anything else and one of the reasons why he is as he is on the road is that when the crowd boos him, it's his way of telling the crowd to go fuck themselves. If he feels he is slighted he seeks retribution.

[FromWayDowntown]

And those saying JOey on the road is better are also nuts. He ejected a bunch of Bulls in Miami just last time.

That was Foster, not Joey.

[cheguevara]

That was Foster, not Joey.

ah ok

but he does not care to eject players on home or road teams alike. He did eject Duncan for laughing in Dallas.

[timvp]

This basically ensures that Dan Crawford and Scott Foster are the crew chiefs for Games 3 and 4

That'd be good news about Dan Crawford at home. He used to be my favorite ref but he's gotten pretty damn horrible now. I don't know when exactly he fell off but he went from elite to only holding on because of his good reputation.

You want Joey Crawford on the road and you want Dan Crawford at home.

FromWayDowntown, who do you think are the best refs today? I think the best was Javie in recent years. Some other really good refs have retired recently.

IMO, it might be Joey as long as he doesn't get into one of his drama queen moods.

[cheguevara]

oh JOey is one of the best. Problem is, most likely than not there'lll be some drama. I'd say there's 50% chance of controvesy and drama for game 2. The drama won't help either team directly. It'll just be a distraction, and distractions usually help extend series rather than let series run their natural course.

plus IMO distractions usually always help the team that's losing in the long run.

[siraulo23]

Is this the only game Crawford is gonna ref in the finals?

[cheguevara]

Is this the only game Crawford is gonna ref in the finals?

nobody knows. but I'd say probably not, unless he really fucks game 2

[moisaenz]

It does not matter what we think, Crawford will ref, teams got to deal with it

[Kool Bob Love]

It does not matter what we think, Crawford will ref, teams got to deal with it

This. Get him out of the way now than later.

[Aztecfan03]

Wasn't he part of the crew in game 5 or 6 of the indiana-pacers series that everyone was saying they wouldn't ref again this year because they did a horrible job in that game?

[nkdlunch]

it is what it is. I rather have joey in game 2 with a 1-0 lead than in a must win game

[weeks]

I will take him in Game 2. He has been damn fair to the Spurs (perhaps overly fair) in his last handful of games.
yep, i think a man in his position and with his history goes the extra mile to try and avoid anything that might give people the impression he's still harboring bad blood towards the spurs. he can't afford any more incidents i think.

[TheGreatYacht]

That'd be good news about Dan Crawford at home. He used to be my favorite ref but he's gotten pretty damn horrible now. I don't know when exactly he fell off but he went from elite to only holding on because of his good reputation.

You want Joey Crawford on the road and you want Dan Crawford at home.

FromWayDowntown (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=110), who do you think are the best refs today? I think the best was Javie in recent years. Some other really good refs have retired recently.

IMO, it might be Joey as long as he doesn't get into one of his drama queen moods.Nope. Steve Javie is corrupt. At least his analysis on ESPN is. He never even criticizes refs. Refs almost always have the right calls according to Javie which we all know is BS. He's there to "defend them" refs like this dude says. \/ \/ \/ \/ \/ \/ \/ \/ \/ \/ \/ \/ \/ \/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ENPLq6w9x_o

[dbreiden83080]

Great he has no choice but to be fair or face the obvious questions..

[SpurCapita]

That'd be good news about Dan Crawford at home. He used to be my favorite ref but he's gotten pretty damn horrible now. I don't know when exactly he fell off but he went from elite to only holding on because of his good reputation.


I've noticed the same thing. Quality-wise, his career bifurcates into cum-'stache and post-'stache.

[jmanu20]

He reffed Game 6 vs. GS an Game 3 vs. Memphis, BOTH of which were Spurs wins. I will agree with others who have said that he is actually a good ref to have on the road because he will not be fazed by the home crowd. Plus, if you consider Joey's history with the Spurs, and the recent criticism about him in the Pacers-Heat series, you gotta think that a major screw-up would be his last hurrah in the league. The Heat will get bullshit calls because they are the Heat, but I don't know that it will be as bad as some of you think tomorrow.

[Kidd K]

He's rep is being a Spurs hater to being the worse ref you can have as a home team. I think in the end he becomes more painful to the home team because he makes an effort to not be influenced by the crowd to a fault.

That's the only thing I respect about him.

[FromWayDowntown]

That'd be good news about Dan Crawford at home. He used to be my favorite ref but he's gotten pretty damn horrible now. I don't know when exactly he fell off but he went from elite to only holding on because of his good reputation.

I have the same feeling about Danny that you do. He was always that guy whose crew would just let teams play, interfere as little as possible in the game, and leave me (as a fan) feeling like I had seen a game in which the officials had mostly stayed out of it. His famous (at least among long-time, hard core Spurs fans) statement to the captains before Game 3 of the 2003 West Finals that they were going to let the teams play playground rules and call their own fouls (evoking saucer-sized eyes from Michael Finley) was sort of typical of that approach. I know Mavs fans will say that Danny had it out for them, but for much of the time that the Mavs were getting "hosed" by Crawford, they were playing a relatively soft brand of basketball that lent itself to losing games -- particularly road games -- called by officials who allowed a lot of contact.


You want Joey Crawford on the road and you want Dan Crawford at home.

At the very least, you want Joey on the road because if he does choose a particular night as the one to screw your team (for whatever reason), you'd certainly prefer that to happen in a game that you're less likely to win. With that said, the Spurs haven't seen Joey at home in the playoffs much since the Duncan incident in 2007. He had Game 5 of the 2008 First Round series with Phoenix and, famously, Game 4 of the 2008 WCF. Since that no call killed the 2008 Spurs, Joey's had exactly 1 playoff game in San Antonio -- Game 1 of the 2012 West Finals. In the last 2 playoff seasons, the Spurs have gone 4-1 in games that Joey called and have won 3 of those on the road -- Game 4 at Clippers in 2012, Game 6 at Golden State, and Game 3 at Memphis; the one loss was Game 6 at OKC last year.

The irony of Spurs' fans dread of having Joey call a playoff game these days is that the history doesn't really bear out that fear, even since 2007. All time, the Spurs are 22-15 (.595) in playoff games that Joey has called; 3 of those were before David Robinson arrived -- since 1990, the Spurs are 21-13 (.618) in playoff games with Joey. Among officials who've called a lot of Spurs playoff games, that's a pretty high win rate (it's higher than the Spurs general winning percentage in all playoff games since 1990 (158-108 (.594)):

.682 -- Derrick Stafford (15-7)
.676 -- Ron Garretson (23-11)
.651 -- Danny Crawford (28-15)
.647 -- Greg Willard (11-6)*
.645 -- Steve Javie (20-11)*
.640 -- Mike Callahan (16-9)
.636 -- Ken Mauer (14-8)
.625 -- Scott Foster (10-6)
.618 -- Joey Crawford (21-13)
.615 -- Bernie Fryer (16-10)*
.611 -- Joe Derosa (11-7)*
.595 -- Dick Bavetta (22-15)
.588 -- Tom Washington (10-7)
.556 -- Monty McCutchen (10-8)
.531 -- Bob Delaney (17-15)*
.529 -- Bill Spooner (9-8)
.500 -- Jack Nies (13-13)*
.459 -- Bennett Salvatore (17-20)
.455 -- Joe Forte (10-12)*
.414 -- Eddie F. Rush (12-17)

(*-no longer calling NBA games).

The Spurs are actually pretty close to .500 on the road with Joey since 1990 (8-9 (.471)) -- a number that is better than their overall road winning percentage (.462 (61-71)).


FromWayDowntown, who do you think are the best refs today? I think the best was Javie in recent years. Some other really good refs have retired recently.

IMO, it might be Joey as long as he doesn't get into one of his drama queen moods.

I agree with the idea that when Joey just sticks to calling balls and strikes, he remains one of the elite play callers in the game. The problem is his apparent need to interject himself into games and make things about himself for whatever reason. I actually think Javie's an interesting parallel. When Javie was young-er, he had some of that same willingness to make it about himself and he was a poorer official for it, I always thought. Once he grew out of that, he was probably the very best in the league at just calling games. I think that's the thing that made him such a great official to have on the road; even if he didn't actually favor the road team, he just stuck to calling the game no matter the environment and therefore didn't tend to favor the home team.

I'm harder pressed to say who's the best these days. While I think Monty McCutchen has some quirks, I think he's remarkably accurate when he chooses to just call games. The same was true of Scott Foster (in my view) until a few years ago -- Foster seems like he's become something of a game manipulator to me and seems, at times, more interested in ensuring there's a good show than in ensuring that there's a well-called game. Those are pretty easy ones, though.

If I had to pick three who I think do a pretty good job most of the time, I would probably point to Mike Callahan (who I think might be the best technician among the officials), Ken Mauer (who hasn't always been good, even when he's been considered to be elite), and Ron Garretson (who hasn't been assigned to a Finals game since the Horry game in 2005). Tom Washington, Derrick Stafford, and a few others are, in my view, fairly reliable as well but seem influenced by extraneous things at times. Those are pretty visceral opinions about the officials who seem to frequently be vindicated by replay on calls that seem questionable in real time.

[GSH]

I know Mavs fans will say that Danny had it out for them, but for much of the time that the Mavs were getting "hosed" by Crawford, they were playing a relatively soft brand of basketball that lent itself to losing games -- particularly road games -- called by officials who allowed a lot of contact.



There are two problems with that:
1. Dallas played the exact same "relatively soft brand of basketball" against all the other refs in the league, and compiled a 48-41 record. Against Dan Crawford, their record was 1-16. That's a 54% winning record vs. a 6% winning record. The Mavs also have a slight FT edge in the 89 playoff games not called by Dan Crawford (slightly more than +1 FT per game). But in the 17 playoff games called by Dan Crawford, they averaged -6.8 FT's per game. That is a mammoth difference. Same team, same "brand of basketball" - night and day results.

2. Worse than the raw record, in my opinion, is Crawford's record against the spread when calling Mavericks' games. In playoff games not called by Dan Crawford, the Mavs are 47-41-1 against the spread. Over time, records against the spread come pretty damned close to reaching .500. But when Dan Crawford is calling the playoff game, the Mavs are 3-14 against the spread. That is absolutely fucking outrageous. And I understand that it actually started affecting the line in Vegas, and he STILL manages to beat it. If that were possible, over time, all the books in Vegas would be out of business. And they aren't even close. Like I said, that ought to catch your eye even more than the raw W/L record.

[DOS CHAINZ]

Good Time to rest the Big 3

[polandprzem]

For those who believes in things.
Not a good sign now when timvp likes the crew for game 2 as he did not liked the crew for game 1 ...