midnightpulp
06-08-2013, 08:20 PM
To start off, let's list the Top 10 players of all-time (Note: I'm only going to list players post-merger in this case, since players like Russell, Wilt, and Oscar are just about impossible to compare to modern players).
I think most of us can agree that Michael Jordan, Kareem, and Magic are pretty much set in stone as the top 3 post-merger players. This is the "sacred tier" so to speak, because there's really no player right now you can justify adding to this tier at the 4th spot. Some might suggest Bird, but his lack of longevity and somewhat inconsistent playoff stats (compared to other top ten greats) I think prevents him from inclusion. Duncan, Hakeem, and Shaq, like Bird, are also right at the edge of entering the sacred tier.
I'm labeling the next tier, which features Bird, Shaq, Hakeem, and Duncan in any order you see fit the "Hallowed tier." Kobe is borderline, but I think his inability to win an MVP and Finals MVP in the same year and the fact his playoff stats and Finals performances are statistically inferior to the aforementioned 4 players keeps him out of the Hallowed tier.
That leaves us with 3 players for the next tier, which I'm going to name the "Legend tier." Kobe is a foregone conclusion to be here. But after him, it gets rather sketchy. Moses Malone? Julius Erving? Isiah Thomas? Lebron? Considering there's a variety of players who can place in the Legend tier, I'm going to extend it beyond 3 players and include Malone, Erving, Thomas, Dirk, and Lebron alongside Kobe. However, Kobe is unquestionably the top dog of this tier.
So:
Sacred Tier
1. Michael Jordan
2. Kareem Abdul Jabbar
3. Magic Johnson
Hallowed Tier
4. Larry Bird
5. Tim Duncan
6. Shaq
7. Hakeem
(the above tier is pretty much a wash, so order is essentially meaningless)
Legend Tier
8. Kobe Bryant
9. Moses Malone
10. Lebron James
11. Isiah Thomas
12. Julius Erving
13. Dirk
(order is a wash after Kobe)
Now that we have that out of the way, how do think these Finals will affect the legacies of Lebron and Duncan?
If the Spurs win the title and Duncan captures his 4th Finals MVP at 37, there's no question he enters the Sacred tier. But say if Duncan averages a solid 20 and 12 but Parker wins the Finals MVP, would that be enough to vault him into the Sacred tier? Or would he simply become the top player of the Hallowed tier? Or what if he crushes it in the Finals, averaging something like 25 and 13, but his team loses. What happens then? On that note, I don't think anything Duncan does or doesn't do would affect his legacy for the negative. With 4 championships and 3 Finals MVPs, his legacy is pretty much secure and can only become greater.
Lebron's legacy, however, doesn't have that security. 4 regular season MVPs or not, if he doesn't win at least another championship and Finals MVP, his legacy could take a hit and plunge him right out of the Legend tier. I don't think that's necessarily fair, but this is how it's always worked. Personally, I wouldn't remove Lebron from the Legend tier unless he's somehow primarily responsible for never winning another championship, like repeating his 2011 Finals performance in this Finals or future key playoff series/Finals for the rest of his career.
But what happens if he repeats with a Finals MVP? The media will probably consider him the 4th best ever behind Magic, but I'm not sure it would be deserving.
I think he enters the Hallowed tier. I just can't justify putting a player with two lead dog championships alongside Jordan, Magic, and Kareem. But if he wins another lead dog title, I do think he belongs in the Sacred tier.
As for Tony Parker, he's probably a borderline top 50 great right how. Even if Duncan wins the Finals MVP, this would be a "lead dog" title for Parker, his first. And a Finals MVP win would be his first "real" Finals MVP, since the real MVP Finals in '07 was the Western Conference Semifinals, and Duncan was the best player in that series.
So what does a title win/Finals MVP do for Parker's legacy? Does he break the top 25 players of all-time? Top 30? What if he chokes? Does his legacy take a hit? Or does the very fact he led the Spurs to the Finals boost his legacy regardless?
I think most of us can agree that Michael Jordan, Kareem, and Magic are pretty much set in stone as the top 3 post-merger players. This is the "sacred tier" so to speak, because there's really no player right now you can justify adding to this tier at the 4th spot. Some might suggest Bird, but his lack of longevity and somewhat inconsistent playoff stats (compared to other top ten greats) I think prevents him from inclusion. Duncan, Hakeem, and Shaq, like Bird, are also right at the edge of entering the sacred tier.
I'm labeling the next tier, which features Bird, Shaq, Hakeem, and Duncan in any order you see fit the "Hallowed tier." Kobe is borderline, but I think his inability to win an MVP and Finals MVP in the same year and the fact his playoff stats and Finals performances are statistically inferior to the aforementioned 4 players keeps him out of the Hallowed tier.
That leaves us with 3 players for the next tier, which I'm going to name the "Legend tier." Kobe is a foregone conclusion to be here. But after him, it gets rather sketchy. Moses Malone? Julius Erving? Isiah Thomas? Lebron? Considering there's a variety of players who can place in the Legend tier, I'm going to extend it beyond 3 players and include Malone, Erving, Thomas, Dirk, and Lebron alongside Kobe. However, Kobe is unquestionably the top dog of this tier.
So:
Sacred Tier
1. Michael Jordan
2. Kareem Abdul Jabbar
3. Magic Johnson
Hallowed Tier
4. Larry Bird
5. Tim Duncan
6. Shaq
7. Hakeem
(the above tier is pretty much a wash, so order is essentially meaningless)
Legend Tier
8. Kobe Bryant
9. Moses Malone
10. Lebron James
11. Isiah Thomas
12. Julius Erving
13. Dirk
(order is a wash after Kobe)
Now that we have that out of the way, how do think these Finals will affect the legacies of Lebron and Duncan?
If the Spurs win the title and Duncan captures his 4th Finals MVP at 37, there's no question he enters the Sacred tier. But say if Duncan averages a solid 20 and 12 but Parker wins the Finals MVP, would that be enough to vault him into the Sacred tier? Or would he simply become the top player of the Hallowed tier? Or what if he crushes it in the Finals, averaging something like 25 and 13, but his team loses. What happens then? On that note, I don't think anything Duncan does or doesn't do would affect his legacy for the negative. With 4 championships and 3 Finals MVPs, his legacy is pretty much secure and can only become greater.
Lebron's legacy, however, doesn't have that security. 4 regular season MVPs or not, if he doesn't win at least another championship and Finals MVP, his legacy could take a hit and plunge him right out of the Legend tier. I don't think that's necessarily fair, but this is how it's always worked. Personally, I wouldn't remove Lebron from the Legend tier unless he's somehow primarily responsible for never winning another championship, like repeating his 2011 Finals performance in this Finals or future key playoff series/Finals for the rest of his career.
But what happens if he repeats with a Finals MVP? The media will probably consider him the 4th best ever behind Magic, but I'm not sure it would be deserving.
I think he enters the Hallowed tier. I just can't justify putting a player with two lead dog championships alongside Jordan, Magic, and Kareem. But if he wins another lead dog title, I do think he belongs in the Sacred tier.
As for Tony Parker, he's probably a borderline top 50 great right how. Even if Duncan wins the Finals MVP, this would be a "lead dog" title for Parker, his first. And a Finals MVP win would be his first "real" Finals MVP, since the real MVP Finals in '07 was the Western Conference Semifinals, and Duncan was the best player in that series.
So what does a title win/Finals MVP do for Parker's legacy? Does he break the top 25 players of all-time? Top 30? What if he chokes? Does his legacy take a hit? Or does the very fact he led the Spurs to the Finals boost his legacy regardless?