Ford: Oberto is coming; Scola not coming

[usckk]

"Just got off the phone with agent Herb Rudoy. He just told me that the Spurs agreed to a three year deal with Fabrico Oberto, the Argentian big man who has been one of the best players in Europe over the past five years. That pretty much ends talk of Scola coming this year. Abdur-Rahim would still be a possibility if they could get Portland to agree to a sign-and-trade for Rasho Nesterovic."

--Chad Ford of ESPN

[mcornelio]

good news about oberto... but sucks no scola for another year...

[Duff McCartney]

Eh well...we know next year it's either Scola or nothing.

[usckk]

Has Oberto ever played in the NBA before? Wasn't he a top free-agent last year?

[Extra Stout]

I dispute Ford's assertion that Oberto and Scola are mutually exclusive. The Spurs have their entire MLE and their LLE available, in addition to minimum-salary deals.

Oberto gets LLE, at most.

[ducks]

this is a good signing
not sure about not having scola yet though

[ducks]

no scola but sar?

[Sii]

I dont think Chad Ford knows Jack about Scola...he is just assuming

Rumor is Oberto only will be signing for about 1.5 mil. SA would still have plenty left for Scola. Scola has also told his team in Europe he is LEAVING for the NBA. Why would he do that without a good reason as to why?

[Guru of Nothing]

Maybe the rights to Scola are part of a trade deal?

[ChumpDumper]

There's no reason to sign Scola now if Rasho stays.

[Sii]

doubt it. No reason SA cant have both players

[ChumpDumper]

No reason SA cant have both playersPlaying time.

[ducks]

3 years wow
maybe team option after 2?

[Extra Stout]

I dont think Chad Ford knows Jack about Scola...he is just assuming

Rumor is Oberto only will be signing for about 1.5 mil. SA would still have plenty left for Scola. Scola has also told his team in Europe he is LEAVING for the NBA. Why would he do that without a good reason as to why?1.5 mil? That's LLE money.

The Spurs still have plenty for Scola.

Is Ford assuming that the Spurs spent their MLE on Horry?

P.S. I don't think that Oberto's signing makes Rasho expendable. Oberto is a rather pedestrian big man. He sucks at free throws, too, which should help him fit right in.

[Marcus Bryant]

Very interesting. Spurs bring in Oberto this season and then next summer when Scola has no buyout they can bring him over.

If they sign Oberto with the LLE then they will have the MLE free to use this offseason on perhaps their top priority, a backup small forward.

Also of interest is the Spurs' desire to do a S&T of Nesterovic for Abdur-Rahim (where have we heard that before?)

If the Spurs have the MLE free, then they should be able to retain Big Dog if they like.

Starters
1 Parker
2 Ginobili
3 Bowen
4 Duncan
5 Mohammed

Bench
1 Udrih
1/2 Barry
2 Brown
3 GRobinson (?)
4 Horry
4/5 Oberto
5 Nesterovic

[Extra Stout]

Playing time.Oberto would be the fourth-string center, behind Nazr, Duncan, and Rasho. He'll hardly play.

[Spurminator]

What if Oberto is simply taking Marks' spot?

2004: Nazr, Rasho, Horry, Duncan, TMass, Marks
2005: Nazr, Rasho, Horry, Duncan, Oberto, Scola

[ChumpDumper]

Oberto can play PF too.

Tell me where Scola gets his minutes then.

[mcornelio]

scola is not a center chump, hes a pf and could play the 3 sometimes, him and rasho would bend right in

[FromWayDowntown]

Assuming that Ford is right, I think it almost has to mean that if Scola's coming, either Rasho or Nazr is gone. With Duncan, Horry, Oberto, and Rasho/Nazr in place, you don't have minutes for everyone, and it would be a shame to bring over Scola to have him linger on the Inactive List for most of the season. If you deal Rasho or Nazr (which I could see happening if they think they can't get Nazr resigned), the Spurs would have at least those Massenburg-type minutes to throw at either Oberto or Scola, while the other was fully a part of the rotation.

[Sii]

Playing time.


yet Chad Ford assumes SAR is still possible

If Oberto gets LLE money...and Scola has told his team he is coming to the NBA..its obvious he is heading here

[ChumpDumper]

Scola could never play the 3 in the NBA

[usckk]

I also agree. There's no way the Spurs will spend money on Scola, when he's not going to get any playing time, unless their going to trade Rasho (which I seriously doubt it).

[Sii]

I also agree. There's no way the Spurs will spend money on Scola, when he's not going to get any playing time, unless their going to trade Rasho (which I seriously doubt it).

Then why has Scolas agent said his client is likely to sign with the Spurs for this season and his team has been informed he isnt returning?

[waly.mg]

Oberto is Manu´s same generation and Scola is the next, so first Oberto and Scola next

[ChumpDumper]

Then why has Scolas agent said his client is likely to sign with the Spurs for this season and his team has been informed he isnt returning?Maybe they didn't know about Oberto.

[Marcus Bryant]

Three possible scenarios I see:

1. Spurs deal Nesterovic for a small forward and then sign Scola using however much of the MLE needed to pay him and pay off Tau.

2. Spurs keep Nesterovic and deal Scola's rights this offseason for a small forward.

3. Spurs sign a small forward this summer using the MLE, keep Nesterovic, and then next summer bring Scola over.

[Marcus Bryant]

IF the Spurs managed to land Rahim for Nesterovic, he and Horry would get the minutes and Oberto would see spot duty (assuming no Scola).

[ducks]

if scola is brought over one center would have to be traded in feb

[usckk]

Maybe they didn't know about Oberto.

Yeah, that's probably it. I think both Scola and his agent are assuming that he's coming over. But as of right now, Oberto is a better financially. Not only do we have to pay Scola to play here, the SPurs have to pay his buyout.

[Sii]

Maybe they didn't know about Oberto.

I doubt it. Scola and Oberto is very doable. No reason to rule that out because "Chad Ford" doesnt understand

oberto will hardly play. That does nothing to Scola

[2centsworth]

Oberto would be the fourth-string center, behind Nazr, Duncan, and Rasho. He'll hardly play.

not like Nazr and Rasho can't be outplayed for minutes. Let's see what Oberto brings.

[constantstate]

Can someone tell me if the Spurs can sign and trade scola... or is his value better as an unsigned draft pick?

[FromWayDowntown]

yet Chad Ford assumes SAR is still possible

You definitely don't have the same playing time problems with SAR that you would have with Scola, if there's no deal for Rasho. SAR would play a role similar to the role that Pop asked Jerome Kersey (and maybe even Danny Ferry and Glenn Robinson) to play -- an oversized 3 who is mostly an offensive weapon in the second unit, but who can play 4 when matchups dictate.

If SAR is playing the 3, getting him time doesn't interfere with the minutes available for the bigs.

[ducks]

if they do not know about oberto then why sign him to a 3 year deal

[usckk]

3. Spurs sign a small forward this summer using the MLE, keep Nesterovic, and then next summer bring Scola over.

I still think the Spurs will not trade Rasho! Nazr is going to command big money after this season, since he is obviously better than Dampier and he got 80 million. There's no way Peter Holt is going to pay the Luxury tax. Once we let Nazr go, Rasho will be needed.

[WalterBenitez]

I don't think that Oberto's signing makes Rasho expendable. Oberto is a rather pedestrian big man. He sucks at free throws, too, which should help him fit right in.

well, well, well ... another playoff with suffer :bang

[ChumpDumper]

I doubt it. Scola and Oberto is very doable.Show me a breakdown of the minutes for the six big men then. And no, Scola won't be a three.

[MannyIsGod]

I think trading away Scola's rights is far more likely at this time than keeping him.

[Marcus Bryant]

Here's another:

4. Spurs sign Oberto using the LLE and Scola the MLE. Keep Nesterovic (for now). Address the small forward position by signing whoever they can get using potential MLE leftovers or a minimum contract. Horry, Nesterovic and Scola would be the 3 bigmen on the active roster and Oberto would be on IR.

[Sii]

I just cant see Scola telling Tau he is leaving without something in the works with the Spurs. That would just be stupid. He obviously thinks he is coming and Im sure SA gave him the reason too

[MannyIsGod]

I still like the prospect of signing GRob, and I hope that would happen before any deal for Scola at this time.

Or bringing over a SF with Scola's rights would be great as well.

[Sii]

Oberto replaces Marks and Scola replaces TMass

[usckk]

Oberto replaces Marks and Scola replaces TMass

The Spurs gave Oberto a 3-year contract. The wouldn't do that unless he's going to play. They aren't going to pay somebody for 3 years to be in the IR

[spurjur]

I feel that Rasho is out of the door. They really don't need Rasho if Nazr is starting. He was rarely used during the entire playoffs. That says a lot. If Pop doesn't put someone in during the playoffs that means something. I believe the Spurs are working on a trade that involves trading Rasho. I can still see Scola coming.

[ChumpDumper]

Why would anyone pay a guy $3 million a year to replace TMass?

[ducks]

scola could be coming to the nba just not to the spurs

can you say portland bound for sar?

[Extra Stout]

How long can LLE deals be in the new CBA?

[Marcus Bryant]

How long can LLE deals be in the new CBA?

Perhaps 6?

[usckk]

scola could be coming to the nba just not to the spurs

can you say portland bound for sar?

Trust me SAR is not coming here. He's going to NJ.

[usckk]

How long can LLE deals be in the new CBA?

I think its probably 5. But i'm not sure.

[Extra Stout]

Perhaps 6?They were 2 years in the old one, I think.

[usckk]

Yeah, your probabaly right

[constantstate]

Here's another:

4. Spurs sign Oberto using the LLE and Scola the MLE. Keep Nesterovic (for now). Address the small forward position by signing whoever they can get using potential MLE leftovers or a minimum contract. Horry, Nesterovic and Scola would be the 3 bigmen on the active roster and Oberto would be on IR.

Marcus... Oberto can play both the 5 and 4 although he's a bit small. Rasho's contract is locked up and he can play "big" centers. Nazr's would be great trade bait, wouldnt he? (especially with his contract)

Also, can you tell me if the Spurs can sign and trade Scola... or would he be more valuable as an unsigned draft pick? (his rights)

[Notorious H.O.P.]

Rasho for SAR probably makes some sense for Portland, as least more than a trade exemption they're aren't going to use. This might put the pressure on Thorn to use that first round pick before the Spurs get involved in serious discussions about something like this.

If this is true, I'm assuming they told Scola that with Horry in the fold as the primary big off the bench, he'd be limited in minutes and that some more minutes might be available the following year depending how everything shakes out.

If they move Rasho, they might be able to sign Scola but I'm unsure how willing Pop is to move him. I recall also reading a Rasho for Darius Miles rumor someplace but it may have been some posters wet dream. The other option is that we trade Scola's rights to someone for a small forward. I'd rather see what Scola is made of but his stock is pretty high right now and his price seems reasonable. Spurs might be inclined to make a move now, especially with Ian or Javtokas possibly coming in a couple of years after Horry starts slowing down.

[zeleni]

What about crazy scenario?

Nazr returns to Knicks to play beside Malik,
Oberto plays secondtune with starting center Rasho, Scola becomes the PF in training with Horry and Duncan as mentors. Marks and Robinson go away and we get the second in a row.

Now reading, scenario isn't quite that crazy. Future.

[Solid D]

Just got in and saw this.

Great news! When this guy is healthy, he is a complete player and he has good size (6'10"). He's been on the Spurs' (and our) radar for several years.

[velik_m]

Nazr returns to Knicks to play beside Malik,


the crazy part

[waly.mg]

The Scola agent is the same

[nkdlunch]

Scola >>> Oberto in value. SO I hope we can still get Scola. And don't get your hopes up too much on Oberto.

[Marcus Bryant]

Yeah, it was two years for the LLE in the old CBA.

http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#17

So Oberto would be getting some part of the MLE if he got a 3 year deal, unless he agreed to sign for the league minimum, which seems unlikely.

[spurster]

It sounds like the negotitions over Scola's buyout fell through.

Assuming typical Spurs thriftiness/cheapness, they will wait to see if Oberto can be a decent backup. In that case, they keep Rasho, let Nazr go next year, and bring in Scola next year, leading to a bigman roster of TD, Rasho, Horry, Oberto, and Scola.

As far as swingmen are concerned, the Spurs can resign Devin and LJ III. This leaves the swingmen a little small, but Manu, Bowen, and Brent would probably get the most minutes in any case.

[usckk]

Yeah, it's two years for the LLE.

http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#17

So Oberto would be getting some part of the MLE.

Maybe the CBA changed the years from 2 to 3.

[Marcus Bryant]

The Scola agent is the same

Then he probably told Fold that Scola isn't coming over.

[ChumpDumper]

Well think about it -- without a buyout, Scola's asking price drops to LLE level no questions asked.

Easily worth the wait if the Spurs are looking to use the MLE elsewhere.

[usckk]

Well think about it -- without a buyout, Scola's asking price drops to LLE level no questions asked.

Easily worth the wait if the Spurs are looking to use the MLE elsewhere.

Agreed.

[Marcus Bryant]

These are definitely nice problems to have.

[usckk]

These are definitely nice problems to have.

Haha, yup!

[FromWayDowntown]

Whatever may be moving with Rasho, I'd be fairly certain that the Spurs aren't doing anything with Rasho until they know what the story is with Nazr. It would be a nightmare for the Spurs to trade Rasho this summer, only to find next summer that they can't meet Nazr's demands. In that scenario, you go from 2 quality centers to none in one year. I'd think that if the Spurs can't get Nazr locked up this summer for an acceptable price, any trades involving centers would see Nazr and not Rasho gone.

[waly.mg]

If TD need a rest or lose some games, Scola can take the Spot, but not Oberto

[usckk]

If TD need a rest or lose some games, Scola can take the Spot, but not Oberto

Why not?

[Marcus Bryant]

If the Spurs were committed to keeping Nazr wouldn't there be chatter about a possible extension already?

I know the Spurs like to keep things quiet, but still, where's the smoke?

[usckk]

If the Spurs were committed to keeping Nazr wouldn't we have heard something about his extension already?

Probably because Nazr want to wait after next season when he can sign a bigger contract.

[constantstate]

Whatever may be moving with Rasho, I'd be fairly certain that the Spurs aren't doing anything with Rasho until they know what the story is with Nazr.
i think so too... nazr just became trade bait. oberto can play the 4/5 and rasho can play big centers (and has a friendly contract) - all of a sudden.

[waly.mg]

Scola can score

[Extra Stout]

The Spurs may be trading the rights to Scola this summer.

[usckk]

The Spurs may be trading the rights to Scola this summer.

for what?

[Gummi]

According to DraftExpress.com: "Word on the street here in Vegas says that Fabricio Oberto will be signing with an NBA team within a couple of days. Teams in Europe indicate that he was looking for a contract in the range of $1.5 million dollars, which means that he's probably looking for a good $2 million from an NBA team considering the tax structure".

So $2 million isn't bad for a player of his quality. And I doubt that he's going to play behind Rasho even if he's still here next season. He's been considered one of the best PF/C in the European game for several years, so he's not comming to the NBA just for garbage minutes. He can easily sign with either Real Madrid, Barcelona or Benneton in Italy for similar money and a lot of playing time.

He's definatly not going to start IMO, but realistically speaking, 15-17 minutes a game. But then again it all depends on what happens to Rasho.

[Kori Ellis]

Oberto captained Argentine team that beat Team USA
By Chad Ford
ESPN Insider

Once again, it looks like the San Antonio Spurs have made yet another international coup.

The Spurs have come to an agreement in principle with Argentinean center Fabrico Oberto, according to his agent, Herb Rudoy.

Oberto, who averaged 14.2 ppg and 7.3 rpg for Parmesa in Spain this season, is widely regarded as one of the top five players in Europe.

He was the team captain of the Argentina team that defeated Team USA at the 2002 World Championships. He dropped 28 points on Vlade Divac in the finale of that tournament.

Oberto is a warrior in the paint with polished moves around the post. He's a good scorer, rebounder and defender who has the toughness and aggressiveness to be an excellent role player in the league. He's also a great passer in the post and frequently draws comparisons to Divac on that skill. Don't be surprised if he is the Spurs starting center on opening night.

Oberto has been hotly pursued by NBA teams for years but has never shown much interest in the past. He's one of the highest paid players in Europe and has been content to be a star over there.

The fact that he turns thirty this year, is considered a little undersized to play center in the NBA (he's barely 6-10 in shoes) and has the free throw touch of Shaq (45 percent from the line) has hurt his free agent stock in the past two years.

The move by the Spurs means that it's unlikely they will bring over their other Argentinean big man, Luis Scola, this season. The Spurs drafted Scola in the second round of the 2002 NBA Draft, but have been unable to bring him over because of an enormous buyout provision with his team Tau Ceramica.

[nkdlunch]

Dammit! Scola + Manu would have clicked so well!

Oberto + Manu.... not so well.

[Solid D]

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2107750

[infinite styles]

Whatever happened to Horry as the backup 3?

[ChumpDumper]

Don't be surprised if he is the Spurs starting center on opening night.Is Ford from Argentina?

[spurjur]

It would be dumb for the Spurs to let Nazr go. Pop said it best. He said that the Spurs would not have made it to the Finals if it weren't for Nazr. Why in the world would he say that and then let him go or trade him?

[wildbill2u]

Whatever may be moving with Rasho, I'd be fairly certain that the Spurs aren't doing anything with Rasho until they know what the story is with Nazr. It would be a nightmare for the Spurs to trade Rasho this summer, only to find next summer that they can't meet Nazr's demands. In that scenario, you go from 2 quality centers to none in one year. I'd think that if the Spurs can't get Nazr locked up this summer for an acceptable price, any trades involving centers would see Nazr and not Rasho gone.

While I think NASR has a bigger upside than Rasho-- and I liked the way he played this year--I'm not so sure he has all that much bargaining power. After all, Pop pulled him in most games in the 4th quarter. (I didn't necessarily agree with that move, but Pop has more NBA championship rings than I do so what do I know)

Nevertheless, how many teams, after seeing that, are going to offer really big bucks for a center whose coach didn't have confidence in him at gut check time. I think NASR may get a nice raise, but we're not talking franchise player here. Therefore I think his contract will be reasonable and we keep him.

[Solid D]

Dammit! Scola + Manu would have clicked so well!

Oberto + Manu.... not so well.

I wouldn't be so sure about that. Manu and Fabricio know each other very well, and they've known each other for a very long time.

[Marcus Bryant]

for what?

A small forward.

[Extra Stout]

It would be dumb for the Spurs to let Nazr go. Pop said it best. He said that the Spurs would not have made it to the Finals if it weren't for Nazr. Why in the world would he say that and then let him go or trade him?Because this franchise can't afford to hand out $50 million contracts like breath mints.

[usckk]

Wow, another argentinian. Spurs=melting pot

[Marcus Bryant]

Spurs are using their contacts to expand their talent base. Nice.

[Extra Stout]

While I think NASR has a bigger upside than Rasho-- and I liked the way he played this year--I'm not so sure he has all that much bargaining power. After all, Pop pulled him in most games in the 4th quarter. (I didn't necessarily agree with that move, but Pop has more NBA championship rings than I do so what do I know)

Nevertheless, how many teams, after seeing that, are going to offer really big bucks for a center whose coach didn't have confidence in him at gut check time. I think NASR may get a nice raise, but we're not talking franchise player here. Therefore I think his contract will be reasonable and we keep him.If you're Popovich, who do you play in crunch time in the playoffs next to Duncan?

A. A nice player like Nazr Mohammed

B. The man with the most metallic testicles in recent NBA history, Robert Horry

That's no slight to Nazr.

[Marcus Bryant]

If the Spurs prefer Nazr over Rasho they'd do what they can to extend him this summer and then deal Rasho in a move that would reduce their long term payroll.

[Extra Stout]

A small forward.I wonder who?

[usckk]

If the Spurs prefer Nazr over Rasho they'd do what they can to extend him this summer and then deal Rasho in a move that would reduce their long term payroll.

If they're smart, they would trade him after this year.

[spurjur]

This guy sounds good and the Spurs always seem bring in the right guys.

[clubalien]

nazr trade value is worth mor than rasho
both because expiring contract and some liek him over rasho

makes since to trade nazr and keep rasho, also oberto is better than scola and cheaper

[Extra Stout]

If the Spurs prefer Nazr over Rasho they'd do what they can to extend him this summer and then deal Rasho in a move that would reduce their long term payroll.Nazr will get a contract in the range of $10 million/year from somebody. The Spurs won't pay that.

[WalterBenitez]

If you're Popovich, who do you play in crunch time in the playoffs next to Duncan?
A. A nice player like Nazr Mohammed
B. The man with the most metallic testicles in recent NBA history, Robert Horry


Right now, right here ... HORRY!!!!
Next year ... still HORRY ...
Later on ... i don't know :oops

[Solid D]

This is the best signing since Robert Horry. And guess what, now they are an even BETTER passing team than they were last year!

:elephant

[Guru of Nothing]

I wonder who?

Shane Battier, somehow? Would have to get creative to make dollars match.

Boris Diaw might be easy pickins.

[Rick Von Braun]

My opinion on the possible scenarios:


Three possible scenarios I see:

1. Spurs deal Nesterovic for a small forward and then sign Scola using however much of the MLE needed to pay him and pay off Tau. I don't think the Spurs deal Rasho for anyone they could realistically get unless:



the Spurs are convinced that Nazr is definitely better than Rasho (I am not convinced of it just yet).
the Spurs are certain they will sign Nazr to a contract extension.
Without both conditions above, the Spurs will not get rid of Rasho just yet.



2. Spurs keep Nesterovic and deal Scola's rights this offseason for a small forward.
This is a possible scenario, but if the Spurs are trading Scola's rights, they better get something good in return. I think the Spurs need to offer someone else on the table in order for another team to be willing to trade a good quality SF. If the Spurs get a project, I think it is a bad deal.



3. Spurs sign a small forward this summer using the MLE, keep Nesterovic, and then next summer bring Scola over.
This is very doable, but I have a concern regarding $. The Spurs will be over the cap next year. That means that in the 2006 Summer they will have to use exceptions to sign FAs. If the Spurs use the MLE this year, will they be able to use it next year as well to bring Scola? I think with the old CBA this was not possible, but may be with the new one this is allowed. I may be wrong, so please someone clarify this.

[Gummi]

I see this move as a insurance move for the Spurs as well. Let's say that Nazr wants big money next off-season, then the Spurs have Oberto looked up for at least another season or two as an insurance. Plus we could hopefully bring Scola if he's not comming this season.

[spurjur]

Remeber that Theo Ratliff is a free agent at the end of next year.

[nkdlunch]

I wouldn't be so sure about that. Manu and Fabricio know each other very well, and they've known each other for a very long time.

I agree but if you saw Argentina in the Olympic games, you would see the Manu+Scola duo was the one who destroyed the big teams.

[FromWayDowntown]

If the Spurs prefer Nazr over Rasho they'd do what they can to extend him this summer and then deal Rasho in a move that would reduce their long term payroll.

Yeah, I think the point isn't about which of the two players is better -- I think the point is that the Spurs can't afford to deal Rasho without having Nazr locked up after the coming season. I'd certainly rather have Rasho than nothing; if you dealt Rasho this summer and couldn't agree with Nazr next summer, you'd have no centers and no real caproom to go get one. I don't think the Spurs will gamble like that.

I'm surprised that we haven't heard anything about a Nazr extension, and it makes me wonder if the slow trickle of news about a possible Rasho trade isn't tied to the Spurs somehow trying to figure out what Nazr wants and how feasible it is to extend his deal.

I think the Spurs have a hammer with Nazr, in that they offer a chance to compete for titles but in an environment filled with players who've accepted something less than market value. Timmy certainly isn't the highest paid player in the league, despite being arguably its best; Manu is grossly underpaid vis-a-vis the market for his skills; and had he become a free agent this summer, Parker would be looking at more money than he took from the Spurs. Nazr might see himself (or his agent might see Nazr) as a better Dampier, but that doesn't coincide with the Spurs salary structure. Nazr won't stay in San Antonio if he expects to make more than Parker or Ginobili.

[2centsworth]

Nazr is gone after this year. Good thing is this is his contract year, so we should see great things from him.

[ALVAREZ6]

Why can't we just bring over Scola and Oberto???

Marks and Massenburg....I like both of these guys a lot, but as players, they aren't really helping the team.

[FoxMulder]

If I was Scola maybe I can be very upset... I don´t know... maybe next year he doesn´t want to come...

[Solid D]

Yes, I saw many of the televised games and yes, they played terrific together. I also saw the 2002 games in Indy. Scola and Manu are great together and we may see them together, yet.

[waly.mg]

Don't be surprised if he is the Spurs starting center on opening night.


This is the Opening Night problem:

Ramadan 2005

Ramadan will begin on October 04, 2005 for all of the United States, God willing. The last day of Ramadan will be November 2, 2005 for all of USA

Nazr probably begin the season out of shape

[picnroll]

What SF could the Spurs realistically get for Nazr?

[2centsworth]

Don't sleep on the spurs, Scola might still be signed. Tau needs to lower the buyout, or get nothing next year.

[FromWayDowntown]

Why can't we just bring over Scola and Oberto???

Marks and Massenburg....I like both of these guys a lot, but as players, they aren't really helping the team.

Because you don't bring Scola over to just linger on the bench. If he's coming here, he's going to play and be a part of the rotation. Last I checked, neither Marks nor Massenburg was a part of last season's rotation. In fact, none of the bigs who were in the rotation last year has left. That's why you don't bring them both over right now.

[Kori Ellis]

Don't sleep on the spurs, Scola might still be signed. Tau needs to lower the buyout, or get nothing next year.

Does his contract even expire next year? Everything I read says 2007.

[picnroll]

Has Tau ever negotiated to get money from a buyout? I think they'd rather keep Scola for the year.

[FromWayDowntown]

Nazr is gone after this year. Good thing is this is his contract year, so we should see great things from him.

If that's true, then Rasho isn't going anywhere unless the Spurs can deal him for another center.

[waly.mg]

Why can't we just bring over Scola and Oberto???

Marks and Massenburg....I like both of these guys a lot, but as players, they aren't really helping the team.

Marks is a Cheerleader

[ChumpDumper]

Remember a couple years back when we only had two big men under contract and were so worried about it?

[wildbill2u]

I see the Oberto move as a great one. First of all, let's see NASR, Oberto and Rasho fight for position as starter, backup and bench. Isn't that what basketball players are supposed to do?

At this point, we don't really know which of the three to keep, but by Feb trade deadline, we could easily have a prime (well, maybe top 10-15) center as trade bait. Of course, Pop may already have made up his mind between NASR and Rasho and therefore Oberto is simply a sign that one is on the block.

[timvp]

I think Spurs fans are overrating Scola and underrating Oberto. I've seen a lot of Argentine basketball and I've always been on record that Oberto is as good a prospect to come in and contribute right away. Oberto is bigger, a better rebounder, a better defender, a better shotblocker and a better passer. In fact, Oberto is one of the best bigman passers I've ever seen.

Scola is good too, but he's overrated worldwide. He has a much higher ceiling than Oberto ... although I believe that he could bust in the NBA. Oberto, on the other hand, is what he is. He's basically a poor man's Vlade Divac who brings some of the same Manu-like toughness and hardnosed play to the court.

I like this move a lot. If it came down to Oberto for three-years at $4-6M and Scola for three-years at $10-12M ... this is what I would have done too. Oberto is an above average backup center in the league.

Now, this also gives the Spurs a lot of flexibility.

1) Trading Rasho. With three capable centers on the roster, Rasho can be traded. It wouldn't have made as much sense to trade him without bringing in another center.

2) Trading Scola. I know this would be an unpopular move, but the Spurs have to look at it. He's a little overvalued around the league right now and teams may be willing to give up a lot for him. There's also some question regarding when he buyout ends. I'm hearing that he might have TWO years remaining on his Spanish contract and the buyout is getting bigger by the year. If that's the case, trading him for a young prospect at a forward or guard position makes even more sense.

3) Using the MLE. I'm guessing Oberto is being signed with the LLE. If that is the case, now the full MLE is free to use. If the Spurs have someone in mind, that meant they couldn't really bring over Scola anyways and this signing helped strengthen their big positions.

[FromWayDowntown]

Does his contract even expire next year? Everything I read says 2007.

I'm really curious about that. For some reason, I (and several others who follow this stuff fairly closely) thought that there would be no buyout or a low-priced buyout THIS summer. Guess that wasn't correct. Now I wonder when Scola's buyout truly becomes affordable -- as in, won't have to pay him the full MLE to make it worthwhile affordable.

[2centsworth]

Does his contract even expire next year? Everything I read says 2007.
I've read 2006 but I'll defer to you onthis one for sure. If it's 2007 then it doesn't look good maybe ever.

[ALVAREZ6]

Of course, Pop may already have made up his mind between NASR and Rasho and therefore Oberto is simply a sign that one is on the block.
I think this is the case.

I don't think he would bring Oberto in just to trade him away.

[WalterBenitez]

This is the Opening Night problem:
Ramadan 2005 - Ramadan will begin on October 04, 2005 for all of the United States, God willing. The last day of Ramadan will be November 2, 2005 for all of USA. Nazr probably begin the season out of shape

Sorry for asking about this sensitive issue ... but in Ramadan Nazr will have to avoid training during the day??

[FromWayDowntown]

2) Trading Scola. I know this would be an unpopular move, but the Spurs have to look at it. He's a little overvalued around the league right now and teams may be willing to give up a lot for him. There's also some question regarding when he buyout ends. I'm hearing that he might have TWO years remaining on his Spanish contract and the buyout is getting bigger by the year. If that's the case, trading him for a young prospect at a forward or guard position makes even more sense.

One thing about trading Scola is that he essentially has no value as a trading piece, because his salary slot (as a second round pick without a signed contract) is basically the minimum. Scola, at most, becomes a sweetner for a deal involving a bigger contract OR Scola gets dealt for a future draft pick.

You aren't going to get great value immediately if Scola's rights are all that you deal.

[Kori Ellis]

I've read 2006 but I'll defer to you onthis one for sure. If it's 2007 then it doesn't look good maybe ever.



Scola, que tiene contrato hasta 2007 y su salida podría rondar los dos millones de euros

http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:ddQBBNfNVNcJ:www.listindiario.com.d o/antes/septiembre04/030904/cuerpos/deporte/dep29.htm+luis+scola+2007+euros&hl=en


Scola tiene contrato hasta 2007 con Tau Cerámica de España y su salida podría rondar los dos millones de euros.

http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:WlsGt_SelhEJ:www.diarioelzonda.com/04/09/03/noticias/deportes/08.htm+luis+scola+2007+euros&hl=en

I'm actually still not sure. But I've read 2007 a lot.

[CosmicCowboy]

Tau is notoriously hardnosed about buyouts. They are a top team and want to stay there. Scola could be stuck this year.

I think bringing Oberto in is not only insurance but a bargaining chip to get Nazr to extend at a reasonable price this summer that the Spurs can live with. Clearly if his agent doesn't deal and holds out for more then the Spurs will know exactly where they stand and what his number will be next summer...and will act accordingly. If the number is too high Spurs would have a choice of putting him on the trading block or letting him playout his contract year here.

[2centsworth]

I think Spurs fans are overrating Scola and underrating Oberto. I've seen a lot of Argentine basketball and I've always been on record that Oberto is as good a prospect to come in and contribute right away. Oberto is bigger, a better rebounder, a better defender, a better shotblocker and a better passer. In fact, Oberto is one of the best bigman passers I've ever seen.

Scola is good too, but he's overrated worldwide. He has a much higher ceiling than Oberto ... although I believe that he could bust in the NBA. Oberto, on the other hand, is what he is. He's basically a poor man's Vlade Divac who brings some of the same Manu-like toughness and hardnosed play to the court.

I like this move a lot. If it came down to Oberto for three-years at $4-6M and Scola for three-years at $10-12M ... this is what I would have done too. Oberto is an above average backup center in the league.

Now, this also gives the Spurs a lot of flexibility.

1) Trading Rasho. With three capable centers on the roster, Rasho can be traded. It wouldn't have made as much sense to trade him without bringing in another center.

2) Trading Scola. I know this would be an unpopular move, but the Spurs have to look at it. He's a little overvalued around the league right now and teams may be willing to give up a lot for him. There's also some question regarding when he buyout ends. I'm hearing that he might have TWO years remaining on his Spanish contract and the buyout is getting bigger by the year. If that's the case, trading him for a young prospect at a forward or guard position makes even more sense.

3) Using the MLE. I'm guessing Oberto is being signed with the LLE. If that is the case, now the full MLE is free to use. If the Spurs have someone in mind, that meant they couldn't really bring over Scola anyways and this signing helped strengthen their big positions.


Right on point! Still Scola would be nice to have too. Price has got to be right, especially in SA. In New York money is not a problem.

[Rick Von Braun]

http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:ddQBBNfNVNcJ:www.listindiario.com.d o/antes/septiembre04/030904/cuerpos/deporte/dep29.htm+luis+scola+2007+euros&hl=en



http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:WlsGt_SelhEJ:www.diarioelzonda.com/04/09/03/noticias/deportes/08.htm+luis+scola+2007+euros&hl=en

I'm actually still not sure. But I've read 2007 a lot. That is a Dominican Republic newspaper. No offense, but I would rather trust a Spanish newspaper.

Moreover, the second link is from a newspaper that no longer exists. :)

[FromWayDowntown]

Scola tiene contrato hasta 2007 con Tau Cerámica de España y su salida podría rondar los dos millones de euros.

That puts the buyout at around $2.5 million, too. I'd assume the Spurs are still only allowed to contribute about $300,000 to the buy out, so they'll have to be able to pay Scola at least $2 million plus a reasonable salary in Year 1 of whatever deal he signs.

I think the problem with paying Scola the MLE right off the bat is that you risk setting his value too high. If Scola comes in and is a good, but not great player -- if he's someone you want to keep around, but who isn't supremely productive -- you risk pricing yourself out of the reasonable market for him. You can't realistically give him the MLE and 6 years because if he goes bust, you're stuck. But when that first contract expires, he'll likely demand more than the MLE, which may overstate his value. For a franchise that is as calculating as the Spurs, that move would be decidedly unlike Holt Cat.

[timvp]

Scola very easily could have been demanding a contract upwards of $15M over three years. The Spurs just can't do that. First of all, he's too much of a risk in the league to be worth that much guaranteed money. If he busted out, you'd have $10M guaranteed stuck on the cap for the next couple seasons.

Second of all, it doesn't really hurt the Spurs to keep him in Eurpoe. Horry is still going to be the go-to power forward in the playoffs whether Scola is here or not. Scola would be a regular season minute filler. Now the Spurs can use that time to better figure out whether Nazr is worth throwing big money at.

[waly.mg]

Scola, que fue seleccionado por los Spurs en el draft de 2002 con el número 56, tiene contrato con el Tau hasta 2006, y su clausula de rescisión asciende a los 2 millones de dólares.

[Kori Ellis]

That is a Dominican Republic newspaper. No offense, but I would rather trust a Spanish newspaper.

Moreover, the second link is from a newspaper that no longer exists. :)

I was just posting the quickest ones I could find on google. I actually originally heard it from an Argentine reporter. :) It's been written differently everywhere.

[Solid D]

Sorry for asking about this sensitive issue ... but in Ramadan Nazr will have to avoid training during the day??

I think it's more of an energy thing during Ramadan. Ramadan means fasting and restraint from sex during the day (dawn to sundown). I am not Muslim, but I know they usually have a pre-dawn meal and a sundown meal.

[2centsworth]

if Scola turns out to be a 6'9" Manu then the spurs will kick themselves. If he turns out to be Christian Laetner the spurs look like geniuses. Who the hell knows these things?

[spurjur]

Isn't their a buyout rule this year? Like what the Mavericks plan to do with Michael Finley? Does anyone see the Spurs doing this?

[Rick Von Braun]

That puts the buyout at around $2.5 million, too. I'd assume the Spurs are still only allowed to contribute about $300,000 to the buy out, so they'll have to be able to pay Scola at least $2 million plus a reasonable salary in Year 1 of whatever deal he signs.

I think the problem with paying Scola the MLE right off the bat is that you risk setting his value too high. If Scola comes in and is a good, but not great player -- if he's someone you want to keep around, but who isn't supremely productive -- you risk pricing yourself out of the reasonable market for him. You can't realistically give him the MLE and 6 years because if he goes bust, you're stuck. But when that first contract expires, he'll likely demand more than the MLE, which may overstate his value. For a franchise that is as calculating as the Spurs, that move would be decidedly unlike Holt Cat. FWD,

The following post may provide you a more accurate estimate of Scola's salary.

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=379138&postcount=15

[Solid D]

Both of these guys are very good players. Oberto might be more prone to injury but he is very experienced. The Spurs do well with either one of these bigs, and if they eventually end up with both... all the better. I'm happy either way.

[Kori Ellis]

Isn't their a buyout rule this year? Like what the Mavericks plan to do with Michael Finley? Does anyone see the Spurs doing this?

That rule is for teams in luxury tax territory and it doesn't give them any salary cap relief. Why would the Spurs do it?

[spurjur]

[/QUOTE]That rule is for teams in luxury tax territory and it doesn't give them any salary cap relief. Why would the Spurs do it?


To rid themselves of Rasho's contract if they aren't able to trade him.

[Kori Ellis]

To rid themselves of Rasho's contract if they aren't able to trade him.

It wouldn't really help them though. They still have to pay Rasho if they waive him and they aren't in luxury tax territory.

[ChumpDumper]

To rid themselves of Rasho's contract if they aren't able to trade him.They would still have to pay the contract in full.

[waly.mg]

Scola can sign a 2 years 5 millions (Half of MLE) with a 3rd Year Player Option, or 3 year with a 4th Player option

[ChumpDumper]

Or he could sign next summer for $2 million less.

[JUUOT]

impressive.
Duncan 5years of contract
Nesterovic 4years
Horry 2+1
oberto 2+1
Nazr 1
the right for Scola, javtokas, karaulev, mahinmi
this give spurs so many options it is just insane. Nearly every team is struggling to get bigs (except dtroit and denver maybee) and we are full of them.
the strategy is clear. Spurs are taking of the front line and make LJIII and brown wait depending on front line issues.
Now Horry and Oberto are signed for 3 years.

Scola is coming only if rasho or Nazr leave. if he is not. nobody seems to think they would complete the front line with a young forward to go learn in NBDL under new cba rule of 14 roster?

i feel glenn robinson could be back if Scola is not in. this why they make brown and ljIII waiting. because if they have enough for Robinson, brown has no more place and they would keep the less expensive...

pieces are coming together but Spurs could do so many things... simply amazing, such a good position. it is unfair for the rest of the league!

[spurjur]

Well, I was under the assumption that the Spurs were over the salary cap by a little. So I was thinking if they can buyout his contract that they would be able to sign some free agents. Antoher words, buyout his contract. Yes I understand they would still be able to pay it, but it wouldn't penalize them (money wise) if they were to sign another free agent to a contract.

[mysterious_elf26]

Could someone give me some insight on Oberto. I mean it was all about bringing Scola over and then suddenly this Oberto pops into the mix and we decide to bring him instead. Who is he?

Is he better and Scola? What are his strenghts and weaknesses and how could he make the team better? Could we still get Scola next year or do we lose his rights after this season? Oh, and will Oberto be getting some playing time because I was assuming if Scola were to come, he would be a huge part of our team.

[FromWayDowntown]

FWD,

The following post may provide you a more accurate estimate of Scola's salary.

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=379138&postcount=15

That's in line with what I was thinking, but thanks, RVB. It's nice to know that I'm not making things up!!

[clubalien]

you are sol right just imagaing when tim duncan is startin to get old we have Ian mahinmi coming in to be our franchise to build around

sort of like how tim came and played with david and inherited the franchise good times for spurs indeed championship era, and great future

[mrose31]

Watch out Sean Oberto is coming! :lol :lol



http://www.basket-plus.com/Atina%202004/Atina2004-slike/Oberto_vs_Marks.jpg

[FromWayDowntown]

Well, I was under the assumption that the Spurs were over the salary cap by a little. So I was thinking if they can buyout his contract that they would be able to sign some free agents. Antoher words, buyout his contract. Yes I understand they would still be able to pay it, but it wouldn't penalize them (money wise) if they were to sign another free agent to a contract.

Unfortunately, that's not how the amnesty program works. Releasing a player for tax purposes doesn't give a team any additional cap room. It just saves the team from having to pay luxury tax on that salary.

[usckk]

What are his strenghts and weaknesses

Well, he has good post moves and has a sweet 14-foot jumper. Plus, he's an excellent passer. However, he's a horrible free-throw shooter, about at 50%. :lol

[waly.mg]

And thats the Kiwi in this photo

[Marcus Bryant]

Get Oberto this summer.

Have Nazr, Rasho and Scola's rights as tradeable assets for now.

Sign Scola next year if you still have his rights.

So far, so good. Yes, it's a downer that they couldn't get Scola over here this summer, but if they are signing Oberto with the LLE then they will have the full MLE to use opportunistically this summer to bring in a young small forward or retain Glenn Robinson.

Not that bad, Spurs fans. Not that bad.

Picking up Oberto kind of makes up for not having a 2nd rounder this year or trading the Suns' 1st round pick.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Man, some people sure have some misconceptions in this thread.

1. The Spurs aren't bringing Oberto over to be a deep bench/inactive player for that money and that contract. You're looking at your new backup center.

2. Related to 1, one of either Nazr or Rasho is on the block. If things look good to extend Nazr this summer, say goodbye to Rasho. On the other side, if Nazr and his agent are asking for too much, good bye Nazr.

3.
but in Ramadan Nazr will have to avoid training during the day??

All Ramadan means is he can't eat/drink during daylight hours. Before daylight and after dark he can eat/drink whatever he wants.

4. The whole "waive Rasho to free up salary thing." First, he's a tradeable commodity that the Spurs wouldn't even think about trading. Second, the Spurs don't even have this option because they are not in the luxury tax range.

Only teams looking at a luxury tax hit can waive a player, and his salary is still on the books. It doesn't change their salary cap outlook at all.

5. Here's hoping that NBA GMs are overvalueing Scola as much as some on this site. Spurs will get a good deal if so.

I'll be surprised if Scola ever plays a minute for the Spurs. I think this Oberto signing means that the Spurs are shopping the rights to Scola along with one of either Rasho or Nazr for a quality SF.

[waly.mg]

He is a Shaq-Rasho FT Shooter, that´s why POP bring him
Not good FT Shooters accepted

[batman2883]

Man how smart are the Spurs, signing almost 3/5's for the gold medal Argentina Team from the olympics, brilliance, pure brilliance. P.S. Rasho still needs to be traded

[clubalien]

could a player you release be resigned?
if we waive tim duncan he gets him monmey, luxry tax won't be a prob at all, and we can resign him for more maybe 1 extra year, and he will get a pay raise since he will be making Old slary+ what we resigned him at

anyone know if you can resign the players you waived?

[Spurminator]

anyone know if you can resign the players you waived?


No.

[spurjur]

That's what I was trying to say. Yes the Spurs will have to pay the rest of his contract, but no luxury tax. All I want is for Rasho to be moved. He is so soft it isn't even funny. The guy did a few good things this season no doubt. However, at 7ft you have to do more. Not just Rasho, but a lot of other 7fters. Its a darn shame that a guy with that size plays soft. The Spurs won't say it, but I will. Rasho is WEAK. The Spurs need to get a tough and rugid center. Its crazy that Rasho is getting paid like nobody's business and can't average double digit in rebounds. Ginobilli goes to boards with more guts than Rasho does. That isn't right! OK. I just had to get that off my chest.

[spurschick]

I would still like to see how Scola would do in the NBA. So many players get so much hype and then completely bust. Scola just turned 25, so I think one more year playing and developing with Tau isn't such a bad thing.

[timvp]

The Spurs could get back a near all-star if they package Nazr and Scola together. Would you do it?

[2centsworth]

The Spurs could get back a near all-star if they package Nazr and Scola together. Would you do it?
like who? All-stars are not all created equally.

[spurschick]

The Spurs could get back a near all-star if they package Nazr and Scola together. Would you do it?

Depends... who are we talking about?

[Marcus Bryant]

The Spurs could get back a near all-star if they package Nazr and Scola together. Would you do it?

Perhaps. The position they would have to target would be the 3.

Does Boston need a center? Hmmm...

[2centsworth]

Perhaps. The position they would have to target would be the 3.

Does Boston need a center? Hmmm...
the cancer that is Paul Pierce can stay put.

Ok, you talked me into it.

[batman2883]

Man Nazr, Duncan, Parker, Manu, and Bowen are going to be unstoppable, then you got Barry, Oberto, Horry(possibly SAR), Beno, and Brown coming off the bench which is a completly other team that would probably be starting on other teams, i cant even imagine what would happen when scola comes in and starts next to TD. Dynasty .......to be continued....

[Extra Stout]

Perhaps. The position they would have to target would be the 3.

Does Boston need a center? Hmmm...You're just hinting at that so that the "Future Spur: Paul Pierce" thread you created like five years ago would come true and you could claim clairvoyant powers. :lol

[Marcus Bryant]

Pierce is one of my top 5 favorite non-Spurs.

I'm not sure if I started a thread like that. Let me check my posting records.

I'll be a while.

[Spurminator]

Stephen Jackson!!




Okay, just kidding.

[Marcus Bryant]

IF the Spurs somehow landed SAR, Nazr is gone.

[clubalien]

tony parker + rahso + scola + S&T devin for nash
I would to that in a heart beat
other players
wade
Iverson
lebron
sean elliot
kobe brany(move him to 3)
KG

[clubalien]

oh yeah nazr for ron artest too

[Extra Stout]

Pierce is one of my top 5 favorite non-Spurs.

I'm not sure if I started a thread like that. Let me check my posting records.

I'll be a while.
You were called "Spurs Fan" back in those days.

P.S. If you make it Nazr + Scola + Brent Barry for Pierce, the salaries work.

[Extra Stout]

I don't know whether Pierce is the best fit in the world for the Spurs, but that trade would be fun simply to watch the reaction of shock, horror, and dread around the basketball world. It would be like when Moses went to Philly.

[clubalien]

i would liek to keep brent barry ;[

[Solid D]

Ian Mihinmi can incubate for another few years. Mihinmi got punked today by Serbia & Montenegro (4 points and 4 reb. in 22 min.)

[Marcus Bryant]

1 Parker
2 Ginobili
3 Pierce
4 Duncan
5 Nesterovic

1 Udrih
2 Brown
3 Bowen
4 Horry
5 Oberto

Hmm...

[jackiel1219]

you forgot Bowen in that line up

[spurjur]

There are a lot of teams that need a quality center. The Spurs now have three. They have to keep two of them. That means let one go. Simple math. They can use that extra one to address one their needs.

[Extra Stout]

1 Parker
2 Ginobili
3 Pierce
4 Duncan
5 Mohammed

1 Udrih
2 Brown
3 Bowen
4 Horry
5 Oberto

Hmm... Don't you think Ainge would rather have Nazr?

[Marcus Bryant]

I messed it up initially, but hey, if Scalabrine is worth $15 mil to him...

[Spurminator]

Which Ainge are we talking about... The "trade Antoine Walker for Raef LaFrentz" Ainge or the "Trade Gary Payton for Antoine Walker and get Payton back" Ainge?

[Extra Stout]

I can't decide whether I'm just being a homer, or wrapped up in the day's activity, or what it is, but it sure seems like there is a deal that can be made for Pierce that would be beneficial to both sides.

[ducks]

would the spurs trade nazr for sar instead of rasho
blazers do not want salary back

[Extra Stout]

Which Ainge are we talking about... The "trade Antoine Walker for Raef LaFrentz" Ainge or the "Trade Gary Payton for Antoine Walker and get Payton back" Ainge?Ainge has been brilliant in the draft, at least.

[clubalien]

pop did make a commitment to rasho going all the way to the country he lived and convence him to take less money to play for spurs

if the spurs show the loyality(DA), they might perfer to keep rasho insted of shipping him off, but with shipping sean elliot, mailk rose, da, almost letting david go to knicks, trading kerr, i guess the loyality argument won't work

still seems off for pop to recruit a free agent then suddenly ship him off therfore shipping nazr makes more since

[timvp]

Does anyone know who Luis Scola's agent is? Is it Herb Rudoy?

[clubalien]

someone said in this thread that scola and oberto have the same agent so if the agent said soemthing it could mean scola nto coming, however the credibilty of a random person on a thread saying so is ahmm low

[ducks]

I heard Oberto and scola have the same agent

[50 cent]

That's what I was trying to say. Yes the Spurs will have to pay the rest of his contract, but no luxury tax. All I want is for Rasho to be moved. He is so soft it isn't even funny. The guy did a few good things this season no doubt. However, at 7ft you have to do more. Not just Rasho, but a lot of other 7fters. Its a darn shame that a guy with that size plays soft. The Spurs won't say it, but I will. Rasho is WEAK. The Spurs need to get a tough and rugid center. Its crazy that Rasho is getting paid like nobody's business and can't average double digit in rebounds. Ginobilli goes to boards with more guts than Rasho does. That isn't right! OK. I just had to get that off my chest.
For the 1289th time, the Spurs are not over the luxury tax threshold and there is a 0% chance the Rasho gets waived. Get a clue.

[spurschick]

I heard Oberto and scola have the same agent

I haven't heard that, but I do know that Oberto and Manu have the same agent.

[timvp]

From what I've found so far, Scola and Oberto do NOT have the same agent.

[Kori Ellis]

According to FIBA.com

Scola's agent is Claudio Villanueva.
Oberto's agent is Herb Rudoy. (also Manu's agent)

[timvp]

According to FIBA.com

Scola's agent is Claudio Villanueva.
Oberto's agent is Herb Rudoy.

Good find. Thanks.

This confirms that Ford is just guessing that Scola isn't coming. If Rudoy was Scola's agent, he would have told Ford about what was going on.

Now I wouldn't rule out both Oberto and Scola coming ... but I think it's still unlikely.

[waly.mg]

Oberto-Scola vs Yao

http://athens2004.com/en/BasketBallMen/results?rsc=BKM400A09&frag=BKM400A09_C73

vs Gasol

http://athens2004.com/en/BasketBallMen/results?rsc=BKM400A06&frag=BKM400A06_C73

vs Yugoslavia
http://athens2004.com/en/BasketBallMen/results?rsc=BKM400A03&frag=BKM400A03_C73

vs USA
http://athens2004.com/en/BasketBallMen/results?rsc=BKM400202&frag=BKM400202_C73

Olympic Final (Oberto Injured by Marbury)
http://athens2004.com/en/BasketBallMen/results?rsc=BKM400101&frag=BKM400101_C73

[waly.mg]

HAAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

Manu is the Agent of Both ¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡

[Cant_Be_Faded]

it doesnt matter he'll be on the IR

[gus]

Bad info. Herb Rudoy is NBA correspondent of Interperformances Agency. Claudio VIllanueva can be the general agent of Scola, but for dealing NBA contracts you have to have a NBA authorised agent. I'm 100 % that Claudio VIllanueva can't deal in the NBA, that't the reason why Herb Rudoy can be the agent for Scola too.

Gus

[Kori Ellis]

Bad info. Herb Rudoy is NBA correspondent of Interperformances Agency. Claudio VIllanueva can be the general agent of Scola, but for dealing NBA contracts you have to have a NBA authorised agent. I'm 100 % that Claudio VIllanueva can't deal in the NBA, that't the reason why Herb Rudoy can be the agent for Scola too.

Gus

Thanks Gus.

I don't see anywhere that Rudoy is listed as affiliated with Scola. But I'll take your word for it.

[waly.mg]

no scola? DDDDDDAAAAAAAAAAMMMMMMMMNNNNNNNNNNN


what are Oberto's stats and height?

6´9´´
14 Points and 7 rebounds

[clubalien]

so we confirmed legal claudio cannot be his agent with NBA , but that doesn't mean rudoy has to be either

[waly.mg]

Of course

[timvp]

I found on another site that says that Scola's agent is Carlos Raffaelli. It appears that Raffaelli and Villanueva are partners. They also represent Nocioni, Kammerichs and Hermann, according to what I've found so far.


According to a media source in Argentina, Anders Nocioni from TAU Vitoria has boarded a plane with his agent Claudio Villanueva paid for by the Bulls and is on his way to Chicago to negotiate a contract for next season.

Nocioni was supposed to arrive today in Cordoba, Argentina to began preperations for the 2004 Olympics in Athens with his national team.

His agent, Villanueva admitted that talks are indeed taking place. He also said that much depends on Nocioni's team in Vitoria, who he has a contract with for another two years, with a large buyout sum rumored to be in the area of 2 million dollars, if not more. In spite of that, the agent says that in his opinion on a scale of 1 to 10 he sees the chances as a 7.5 to 8.5 for Nocioni to be in Chicago this season.

So I guess that he is NBA certified or whatever.

This is good news for those who want Scola to come over this year.

[waly.mg]

He´s a National Team Manu´s Partner Since 1999

[waly.mg]

Watch out Sean Oberto is coming! :lol :lol



http://www.basket-plus.com/Atina%202004/Atina2004-slike/Oberto_vs_Marks.jpg

Here with the Kiwi

[spurschick]

http://www.fabrioberto.com/

[WalterBenitez]

Kori:

Any vbookie to guess about what Jersey# will wear the new cute face in town

(for the record ...I didnt say that, was my girlfriend ... :oops)

[spurjur]

For the 1289th time, the Spurs are not over the luxury tax threshold and there is a 0% chance the Rasho gets waived. Get a clue.

Answer me these questions Chump Change?

What was the salary cap for 2004-2005?

What are most NBA execs. thinking the new salary cap will be for 2005-2006?

What will the Spurs have to pay in salaries in 2005-2006 with Tony's extension coming into play this season?

Note to 50 Cent: Get an original name.

[Extra Stout]

Answer me these questions Chump Change?

What was the salary cap for 2004-2005?

What are most NBA execs. thinking the new salary cap will be for 2005-2006?

What will the Spurs have to pay in salaries in 2005-2006 with Tony's extension coming into play this season?

Note to 50 Cent: Get an original name.The luxury tax threshold will be well over $60 million. The Spurs won't approach that level.

But thanks for trying.

[waly.mg]

Points (http://web.fiba.com/pages/en/events/teamsclubs/tc_accu_stats.asp?RoundID=3183&TeamNumber=237&CompetitionCode=WOLYM&Season=2004&fisC=&lang=En&drop=1&atype=0&act_link=2)

Rebounds & Co (http://web.fiba.com/pages/en/events/teamsclubs/tc_accu_stats.asp?RoundID=3183&TeamNumber=237&CompetitionCode=WOLYM&Season=2004&fisC=&lang=En&drop=1&atype=1&act_link=2)

[waly.mg]

100000 Vbookies to Nº 7

[spurschick]

where are tyhe pics on the site, and for some reason I can only access the spanish version

Click on Multimedia - then click IMAGENES

#3 pic is Oberto and Timmy

[spurjur]

The luxury tax threshold will be well over $60 million. The Spurs won't approach that level.

You're serious? I seriously doubt it will be well over $60 million. It was @ $43.5 million this past season. You're saying that it will go up $16.5 million this next year? Are you OK?

[Summers]

All Ramadan means is he can't eat/drink during daylight hours. Before daylight and after dark he can eat/drink whatever he wants.



I remember reading when we got Nazr that he loses quite a bit of weight (15-20 lbs?) during Ramadan. If memory serves, my impression at the time was that the Knicks were down on him because 1) he routinely performs poorly at the beginning of the season due to Ramadan and 2) he had a groin injury that wouldn't heal. So basically, he sucked all last season (for the Knicks!) I remember thinking it was awfully short-sighted of the Knicks to want to off-load him for those reasons and a no-brainer for the Spurs to pick him up and give him time to heal and basically concede the first month of the season.

Anyhoo, Kori (I think), can you repost a link you posted weeks ago that explained salary cap, etc? I can't find it and I think I'm ready for some deep reading. :)

[ChumpDumper]

FWIW, Scola isn't listed on Rudoy's Interperformances site, so he doesn't seem to have anything to do with him.

[Rick Von Braun]

You're serious? I seriously doubt it will be well over $60 million. It was @ $43.5 million this past season. You're saying that it will go up $16.5 million this next year? Are you OK?
luxury tax threshold > salary cap threshold

2005 estimated salary cap ~= $49M
2005 estimated luxury cap ~= $60M

These are just approximate estimates.

[Kori Ellis]

You're serious? I seriously doubt it will be well over $60 million. It was @ $43.5 million this past season. You're saying that it will go up $16.5 million this next year? Are you OK?

You are confusing the luxury tax threshhold and the salary cap. The salary cap was $43.8M this past season - the luxury tax threshhold is about $10M higher.

[boutons]

" he sucked all last season (for the Knicks!)"

BS. Nazr had quite a solid Nov/Dec/Jan, then really tapered off with the groin injury.

http://www.nba.com/playerfile/nazr_mohammed/game_by_game_stats.html

[Extra Stout]

You're serious? I seriously doubt it will be well over $60 million. It was @ $43.5 million this past season. You're saying that it will go up $16.5 million this next year? Are you OK?
If you're going to be condescending, next time please first make certain that you're not completely full of shit.

[picnroll]

Here's (http://draftexpress.com/viewarticle.php?a=1034) a write-up from DraftExpress on Oberto's game, strengths and weaknesses.

[Extra Stout]

what are Oberto's stats and height?


he's from Argentina like Manu?


any pics of this guy?



Scola>>>Oberto

Gee, what an informed opinion you have. :rolleyes

[Sense]

Gee, what an informed opinion you have. :rolleyes

hahahahaha agreed, some people just shouldn't talk, and trust the Spurs' decisions.

[gus]

Thanks Gus.

I don't see anywhere that Rudoy is listed as affiliated with Scola. But I'll take your word for it.

NO Kori i'am not sure that Rudoy is Scola's agent, but I'am 100% sure that Villanueva is not Scola NBA agent. Nocioni has Villanueva as agent and another guy for the NBA ( I can't remember his name ).-

Gus

[Sii]

Scola>>>Oberto


why can't the Spurs just pay the fucker what he wants


who says he wont be here? many are acting like he wont be signed. I still think Scola ends up here. SA can still pay him. His agent has said he is signing with the Spurs, He's told Tau he is leaving. Its just obvious

[Kori Ellis]

He's told Tau he is leaving.

Not quite.

The translation from Spanish was he "intends" to leave. I assume that means he's still trying to leave, but it doesn't quite mean he's leaving.

[Marhq]

Oberto playing:

http://www.fabrioberto.com/multimedia/otras/008.jpg

(I know, I suck)

[leemajors]

seeing as we know nothing but second or third hand information, i think we should trust the front office at this point. they obviously know what they are doing and what is best for the team. we have no idea what tau wants for scola exactly, what his demands are, or how negotiations are going. i think a 30 year old guy with great character and grit (olympic captain) who already has a lot of experience with one of our best players is a great pickup. 30 is not 35, 37, or 40.

[spurjur]

If you're going to be condescending, next time please first make certain that you're not completely full of shit.

OOO. I'm bad. I use curse words to make myself look really tough. Whatever dude. If you were to read my questions correctly and that goes for Kori as well. I asked what was the "salary" cap going to be this season. I never mentioned "luxury."

[Sense]

LM<LAMALMAOAMO,


Oberto had his time, why are the Spurs bringing over this guy


unless the Spurs can some how get rid of Rasho and bring over Scola


:lol :lol :lol :lol :lol Your stupidity makes me laugh.

[WalterBenitez]

Oberto playing:

http://www.fabrioberto.com/multimedia/otras/008.jpg

(I know, I suck)


Spurs' band is coming ...

Oberto Guitar ... TP voice ... Barry dancing ... who else :D

[Summers]

" he sucked all last season (for the Knicks!)"

BS. Nazr had quite a solid Nov/Dec/Jan, then really tapered off with the groin injury.

http://www.nba.com/playerfile/nazr_mohammed/game_by_game_stats.html

I wasn't saying I thought Nazr sucked. I was saying the Knicks were treating him like a lame duck and seemed more than happy to get rid of him.

[Guru of Nothing]

The Spurs could get back a near all-star if they package Nazr and Scola together. Would you do it?

Well, if we can dream that big, I'd like to figure out how to compile a deal to bring Luol Deng to the Spurs. Assuming the Bulls lose Curry, Nazr might look pretty attractive to the Bulls. Matching contracts and salaries makes such a deal very unlikely.

[Summers]

Spurs' band is coming ...

Oberto Guitar ... TP voice ... Barry dancing ... who else :D

Summers: groupie.

Timmy: videographer.

[Kori Ellis]

OOO. I'm bad. I use curse words to make myself look really tough. Whatever dude. If you were to read my questions correctly and that goes for Kori as well. I asked what was the "salary" cap going to be this season. I never mentioned "luxury."

I explained to you very early in this thread that the Spurs cannot waive Rasho using that rule - it's for teams that are over the luxury tax -- the Spurs aren't. Even if they did waive Rasho, it wouldn't help them sign anyone else -- his salary still counts against the salary cap.

[Sense]

whatever dumbass, either way it doesn't change Rasho's worthlessness on this team



Posting closed threads, after repeating, with emotion may I say.... it's totally funny. :lmao :lmao

[Extra Stout]

I agree, plus he's 30You don't even know who this guy is, you've never seen him play, you didn't even know he was an Argentine, and yet you have all these strong opinions about how good he is?

I'm betting you've never seen Scola play either. So, basically, your opinions are based upon... umm... what, exactly?

It never even occurred to you that Scola could still be coming. When Chad Ford speculates about something, 2 times out of three he's wrong.

Stick to pro wrestling.

[waly.mg]

Horry can sing too, remember the finals

[MaNuMaNiAc]

I'm a little disappointed... IMO Scola is better than Oberto, I really think the Spurs should have just payed the buyout, it would have been worth it.

[ChumpDumper]

I have seen him play many times, not only in the Olympics but also many times in the other leauges like the EuroYou asked earlier what country he was from....

[Extra Stout]

The luxury tax threshold will be well over $60 million. The Spurs won't approach that level.


You're serious? I seriously doubt it will be well over $60 million. It was @ $43.5 million this past season. You're saying that it will go up $16.5 million this next year? Are you OK?


Whatever dude. If you were to read my questions correctly and that goes for Kori as well. I asked what was the "salary" cap going to be this season. I never mentioned "luxury."Look, if you don't know enough about the NBA collective bargaining agreement to understand the difference between the salary cap and the luxury tax threshold, a failure that clearly has been captured above, then you really ought to keep your strong opinions to yourself. You don't know what you're talking about. Others of us do. Shut up.

[Sense]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shawn Michaels



what are Oberto's stats and height?



Quote:

Originally Posted by Shawn Michaels



he's from Argentina like Manu?



Quote:

Originally Posted by Shawn Michaels



any pics of this guy?




Quote:

Originally Posted by Shawn Michaels



Scola>>>Oberto


I bet you've seen him play in "Euro" and in the olympics...lol ur full of it.

[Solid D]

It's curious to me how people can post in this Forum, or even lurk, and not know who Fabricio Oberto is. We've been posting any morsel we can on him for 3 years (I know I have been), including obscure newspaper links in Cordoba...bookmarked, no less.

[bigbendbruisebrother]

Dammit! Scola + Manu would have clicked so well!

Oberto + Manu.... not so well.

http://www.basket-plus.com/Atina%202004/Atina2004-slike/Oberto_Ginobili_slave.jpg

[Extra Stout]

I have seen him play many times, not only in the Olympics but also many times in the other leauges like the Euro


so with that sad, stfu you have no credAnd yet you didn't even know he was Argentine... :lmao You asked for pics... why would you need pics of a player you've seen play "many times?" :lmao

Whatever dude.

[ChumpDumper]

I'm talking about Scola.But you saw the Olympics....

[ChumpDumper]

But you've seen the Olympics....

And you say Scola >>>> someone you haven't seen, but have since you've seen the Olympics.

Is that right?

[Extra Stout]

I've seen Scola play, I'm not talking about ObertoScola and Oberto played on THE SAME TEAM. :lmao You know, Argentina, that one you watch so much. :lmao

This is awesome.

[waly.mg]

In Fact, Oberto is a Free Agent and Scola a Draft PIck
So you may sign first the FA and after the Draft Picks, because you have more time for sign the Draft Picks, because there aren´t other teams who can talk with Scola

[Walton Buys Off Me]

I will be extremely disappointed in the Spurs aren't able to bring over Scola this year. Pop claimed he was a huge priority. I usually back Holt and commend him in his business dealings but the guy is basically sitting in Europe and aging while we're squabling over a buyout. The 1.2 and 1.1 million dollars that were paid to Sean Marks and Tony Massenburg last year could have gotten this done.

This is now officially Manu's team and I think he would be even more motivated (if that's possible) playing with his sidekick Luis Scola. Oberto is nice and I'm happy with the signing but this seems like nothing more than a consolation prize because the Spurs were too cheap to pay a buyout they've known about for three years now.

Make it happen Buford.