Is Duncan a better player than Olajuwon?

[StrengthAndHonor]

Didn't see much of Olajuwon in the 90's except the Orlando-Houston match up, cable didn't play a lot of NBA games then.

Spurs fans who were fortunate to see plenty of Olajuwon espwcially against the Spurs/D-Rob era, would you say the dream ia a better player than Duncan?

[Riddler]

There have been like 2,000,000 of these threads already :lol

[BobaFett1]

dream

[StrengthAndHonor]

There have been like 2,000,000 of these threads already :lol

:lol sorry. So who got majority of the votes?

[Riddler]

:lol sorry. So who got majority of the votes?

Hakeem.

[TDMVPDPOY]

hakeem 2 year championship run, people make it like he played like that for his whole career which is totally wrong....

[Double-Up]

^ Still was better than Duncan...

[Riddler]

hakeem 2 year championship run, people make it like he played like that for his whole career which is totally wrong....

Don't forget he went up against the showtime Lakers and Bird Celtics. And he did play like that his whole career.

:lol Austraila

[StrengthAndHonor]

^ Still was better than Duncan...

How about career wise?

[Riddler]

How about career wise?

Duncan has had the better career. And the better teammates/teams.

[StrengthAndHonor]

Duncan has had the better career. And the better teammates/teams.

I've always thought Olajuwons career was better. MVP, FMVP and DPOY at the same year if I'm not mistaken.

[spurraider21]

I've always thought Olajuwons career was better. MVP, FMVP and DPOY at the same year if I'm not mistaken.

so your justification for one guy's better career is by choosing a list of awards he won in ONE season.

seems legit

[scanry]

Olajuwon could hardly walk by the age 37. Tim on the other hand is putting up all star numbers. Go figure.

Duncan will go down as the better player period.

[The Batman]

Olajuwon could hardly walk by the age 37. Tim on the other hand is putting up all star numbers. Go figure.

Duncan will go down as the better player period.

Hakeem carried his team since around the time he was drafted. Duncan came in with Robinson there and the perfect system.

[benefactor]

No.

[StrengthAndHonor]

so your justification for one guy's better career is by choosing a list of awards he won in ONE season.

seems legit

Its not like Olajuwon's whole career is considered chopped liver tbh :lol

That one season however is the reason why I would consider giving Olajuwon the edge considering their respective careers are close to begin with.

[AchillesHeel]

Easily. Not even close.

[The Batman]

Easily. Not even close.

Smush Parker is better than Kobe.

[AchillesHeel]

Smush Parker is better than Kobe.


tbh agreed, the only big clutch victory Achilles ever had in the playoffs (7-27 in the clutch in the playoffs) was thanks to a steal by Smush Parker

I think Smush Parker contributed more wins for the Lakers in 06 than Kobe with good defense and allowing a selfish chucker take 40 shots a game(without ever complaining) and demanding for trades because he couldn't win MVPs by chucking.

[Arcadian]

Yes.

[AaronY]

Love this youtube so much tbh:

uBrEsNS9zKg

[AaronY]

2:10..hnnnnggggg

[lefty]

OLAJUWON SHITS ON DUNCAN

[baseline bum]

Love this youtube so much tbh:

uBrEsNS9zKg

Great video. Used to have that entire Rockets-Lakers 86 WCF until a hard drive died. I was able to recover a lot of files on it, but not those. :(

Only game I have been able to find since is Game 5 when Kupchack baited Olajuwon into a fight and an ejection and Sampson nailed that crazy 20 footer at the buzzer to win the series.

[LkrFan]

Dream >>> TD. TD had the benefit of better teammates, better coach, and better system. Better defender? Dream. Better offensive player? Dream. Better prime? Dream

Dream was a monster. TD was more consistent over a longer period of time though.

[AchillesHeel]

Dream >>> TD. TD had the benefit of better teammates, better coach, and better system. Better defender? Dream. Better offensive player? Dream. Better prime? Dream

Dream was a monster. TD was more consistent over a longer period of time though.

Dream had some decent rosters, Drexler was way better than Manu or Parker ever were.

[StrengthAndHonor]

Dream had some decent rosters, Drexler was way better than Manu or Parker ever were.


95 Drexler was a TOSB tbh.

[Chris]

Better player, yes. Better athlete, no.

[LkrFan]

Dream had some decent rosters, Drexler was way better than Manu or Parker ever were.

They didn't have Prime Glide.

[JamStone]

Dream did pretty much everything on the basketball court slightly better than Duncan. Both all time greats. Hakeem just a little better though.

The two things I'll say about Duncan is first, he has aged a little better, so Duncan is probably a little better player later in his career than Hakeem was later in his. And second, Duncan had less of an ego, and that unselfishness allowed him to take a back seat to Parker or Ginobili when he felt it was better for the team, which in turn may have helped him age better.

But even if you take entire careers into consideration, I'd still take Hakeem over Tim.

[dbreiden83080]

Duncan has been better for longer so for their careers I take Tim.. At their peak is a tougher call..

[dbreiden83080]

OLAJUWON SHITS ON DUNCAN

Technically he SHIT on D-Rob.. All over him..

[ohmwrecker]

This seems familiar.

[JamStone]

I hear that argument that Tim has been better for longer as if Hakeem was an average player aside from those couple of championship seasons. Hakeem's first 12 seasons in the NBA, he averaged 20 points, 10 rebounds, and 50% from the field. His first 12 seasons. For comparison, Duncan did that 5 times his entire career. Duncan might be (and it's only arguable) better later in his career. But Hakeem had plenty of longevity to his greatness himself. It's not like he only put up 3-4 great years and the rest were so-so. And in their respective primes, it's not really close. In Hakeem's prime, he might have been the greatest and most complete basketball player ever. At the very least, the greatest and most complete big man ever.

[StrengthAndHonor]

I hear that argument that Tim has been better for longer as if Hakeem was an average player aside from those couple of championship seasons. Hakeem's first 12 seasons in the NBA, he averaged 20 points, 10 rebounds, and 50% from the field. His first 12 seasons. For comparison, Duncan did that 5 times his entire career. Duncan might be (and it's only arguable) better later in his career. But Hakeem had plenty of longevity to his greatness himself. It's not like he only put up 3-4 great years and the rest were so-so. And in their respective primes, it's not really close. In Hakeem's prime, he might have been the greatest and most complete basketball player ever. At the very least, the greatest and most complete big man ever.

Olajuwon's prime numbers looks a lot better (89-96)

25.1 PPG, 12.5 rebounds 3.8 blks/g 1.9 stls/g

52% shooting.

[Cry Havoc]

Its not like Olajuwon's whole career is considered chopped liver tbh :lol

That one season however is the reason why I would consider giving Olajuwon the edge considering their respective careers are close to begin with.

So funny you mention that one season, considering what was just published on ESPN's NBA page.

http://espn.go.com/nba/playoffs/2013/story/_/id/9357345/greatest-individual-postseasons-1-5

Best playoff runs: Players 1-5

When it comes to historic player performances, the conference playoffs get no love. You can name and debate the best regular seasons and the best NBA Finals efforts, but the best overall postseason run doesn't spark the imagination quite the same way.

The same is true in terms of awards. The best regular seasons are rewarded with the MVP and there's an MVP of the NBA Finals, but save for the award Bill Simmons invented in "The Book of Basketball," there's nothing to honor the best playoff runs.

Which is what brings us here. Using my wins above replacement player (WARP) metric, we've ranked the best overall postseason performances dating back to 1978, the first year the NBA tracked a full box score including player turnovers.

WARP is up to the task because it considers both quality and quantity of performance. For example, Tim Duncan was better on a per-minute basis in the 2007 playoffs (when he had a 27.4 PER) than in 1999 (25.1). But the 23-year-old Duncan was able to log 43.1 minutes per game in the 1999 postseason as opposed to a relatively cushy 36.8 minutes per game in 2007, when he was already 31. Those extra six minutes a game Duncan kept backup Will Perdue on the bench mattered to the San Antonio Spurs, and using WARP credits him for it.

I did make one adjustment to the overall WARP totals. It's unfair to give players credit for playing more games in each series simply because they needed more time to eliminate their opponents. For example, Duncan and the Spurs played 24 games en route to the 2003 title, while Shaquille O'Neal and the Los Angeles Lakers needed 16 to win in 2001. Both teams get the same trophy, so they should get equal credit. To do that -- and also adjust for best-of-five and best-of-three series in previous decades -- I prorated each series to an average of six games.

Since the goal of a postseason run is the title, I also added one WARP for champions. And, though it doesn't always go to the player who was best in the playoffs, I also awarded a 0.5 WARP bonus to each year's Finals MVP.

With that, we have a ranking of the greatest individual playoff runs in modern NBA history.


3. Tim Duncan, Spurs, 2003



PELTON'S RATING
9.5
Position: PF | Age: 27

Result: Won NBA Finals | Finals MVP

GP 24
PPG 24.7
RPG 15.4
APG 5.3
BPG 3.3
SPG 0.6
TS% 57.7
USG 26.4

In terms of raw playoff WARP, Duncan's 2003 playoff run (8.0) tops the list because the Spurs, as noted in the introduction, needed 24 games to win the championship -- playing exactly six games in every series. Don't blame Duncan. No superstar has done more to drag an undermanned team to the title.

The 2003 Spurs were a team in transition, with David Robinson on his farewell tour and the backcourt of second-year point guard Tony Parker and rookie shooting guard Manu Ginobili yet to grow into co-stars. In the playoffs, Parker (14.7 PPG) and a young Stephen Jackson (12.8) were the only other San Antonio players to average double figures. Yet the Spurs still dispatched of the three-time defending champion L.A. Lakers and a 60-win Dallas Mavericks team (with a little help from Dirk Nowitzki's knee injury) to reach the Finals.

There, against a New Jersey Nets team making its second consecutive Finals appearance, Duncan took over to an unprecedented degree. He averaged 24.2 points, 17.0 rebounds, 5.3 assists and 5.3 blocks, capped by a 21-20-10-8 performance in the closeout Game 6 that came close to becoming the first quadruple-double in playoffs history. Duncan settled for the only 20-20-10 in the past 27 Finals, his second championship and the third spot on this list.

-----------------------

Tim was a monster that year. Not to take anything away from The Dream.

[StrengthAndHonor]

So funny you mention that one season, considering what was just published on ESPN's NBA page.

http://espn.go.com/nba/playoffs/2013/story/_/id/9357345/greatest-individual-postseasons-1-5

Best playoff runs: Players 1-5

When it comes to historic player performances, the conference playoffs get no love. You can name and debate the best regular seasons and the best NBA Finals efforts, but the best overall postseason run doesn't spark the imagination quite the same way.

The same is true in terms of awards. The best regular seasons are rewarded with the MVP and there's an MVP of the NBA Finals, but save for the award Bill Simmons invented in "The Book of Basketball," there's nothing to honor the best playoff runs.

Which is what brings us here. Using my wins above replacement player (WARP) metric, we've ranked the best overall postseason performances dating back to 1978, the first year the NBA tracked a full box score including player turnovers.

WARP is up to the task because it considers both quality and quantity of performance. For example, Tim Duncan was better on a per-minute basis in the 2007 playoffs (when he had a 27.4 PER) than in 1999 (25.1). But the 23-year-old Duncan was able to log 43.1 minutes per game in the 1999 postseason as opposed to a relatively cushy 36.8 minutes per game in 2007, when he was already 31. Those extra six minutes a game Duncan kept backup Will Perdue on the bench mattered to the San Antonio Spurs, and using WARP credits him for it.

I did make one adjustment to the overall WARP totals. It's unfair to give players credit for playing more games in each series simply because they needed more time to eliminate their opponents. For example, Duncan and the Spurs played 24 games en route to the 2003 title, while Shaquille O'Neal and the Los Angeles Lakers needed 16 to win in 2001. Both teams get the same trophy, so they should get equal credit. To do that -- and also adjust for best-of-five and best-of-three series in previous decades -- I prorated each series to an average of six games.

Since the goal of a postseason run is the title, I also added one WARP for champions. And, though it doesn't always go to the player who was best in the playoffs, I also awarded a 0.5 WARP bonus to each year's Finals MVP.

With that, we have a ranking of the greatest individual playoff runs in modern NBA history.


3. Tim Duncan, Spurs, 2003



PELTON'S RATING
9.5
Position: PF | Age: 27

Result: Won NBA Finals | Finals MVP

GP 24
PPG 24.7
RPG 15.4
APG 5.3
BPG 3.3
SPG 0.6
TS% 57.7
USG 26.4

In terms of raw playoff WARP, Duncan's 2003 playoff run (8.0) tops the list because the Spurs, as noted in the introduction, needed 24 games to win the championship -- playing exactly six games in every series. Don't blame Duncan. No superstar has done more to drag an undermanned team to the title.

The 2003 Spurs were a team in transition, with David Robinson on his farewell tour and the backcourt of second-year point guard Tony Parker and rookie shooting guard Manu Ginobili yet to grow into co-stars. In the playoffs, Parker (14.7 PPG) and a young Stephen Jackson (12.8) were the only other San Antonio players to average double figures. Yet the Spurs still dispatched of the three-time defending champion L.A. Lakers and a 60-win Dallas Mavericks team (with a little help from Dirk Nowitzki's knee injury) to reach the Finals.

There, against a New Jersey Nets team making its second consecutive Finals appearance, Duncan took over to an unprecedented degree. He averaged 24.2 points, 17.0 rebounds, 5.3 assists and 5.3 blocks, capped by a 21-20-10-8 performance in the closeout Game 6 that came close to becoming the first quadruple-double in playoffs history. Duncan settled for the only 20-20-10 in the past 27 Finals, his second championship and the third spot on this list.

-----------------------

Tim was a monster that year. Not to take anything away from The Dream.

Good stuff though I take it with a grain of salt. Anyone who ranks Lebron's 2012 NBA Finals run 2nd overall is a joke in my book.

Also, Duncan's competition that year wasn't as good as the Dream's back to back championship years (Ewing and Shaq). The Nets were a perennial treadmill team in the Finals, ran and fueled by a point guard. It was no surprise that talented big men like Shaq and Duncan dominated those series.

Again, not a slight to Duncan as he has proven he can play with the best the West has to offer, just worth mentioning.

[StrengthAndHonor]

:lol Barely outplayed
:lol Look at the numbers


I've seen all games. Its a statement. Olajuwon embarassed O'Neal.

[StrengthAndHonor]

You have reading comprehension. I already said, I saw every game, still have it on VHS. The numbers do not tell you the whole story. Olajuwon outplayed Shaq.

But allow the man who played against Olajuwon to prove that.

"If I can't beat you, I'll be a man and say I can't beat you. I'm not going to [cry about it] ... I'm the first guy to say that somebody is better than me. I was the first guy to say Hakeem Olajuwon beat me in the [1995] NBA finals. He killed me. He dominated me. I didn't go, 'Oh, he's traveling. They had experience. Wah-wah-wah.' I'm a man. Hakeem Olajuwon dusted my butt."

-O'Neal


Shaq has been very vocal of this even repeating this statement a decade later.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=_By2-Z3tOms



But I want to be clear that in no way I'm saying Shaq was the reason Orlando lost. Shaq was actually magnificent. Its just that Olajuwon was better.

[Koolaid_Man]

Dream >>> TD. TD had the benefit of better teammates, better coach, and better system. Better defender? Dream. Better offensive player? Dream. Better prime? Dream

Dream was a monster. TD was more consistent over a longer period of time though.

^ that's it and that's all...Simply put there would be no Duncan if he played against a Prime Dream...that was one cold blooded African and it's no surprise MJ picked Dream as part of his personal starting 5....

Spur fan don't think anyone was better than Duncan :lol

[midnightpulp]

^ that's it and that's all...Simply put there would be no Duncan if he played against a Prime Dream...that was one cold blooded African and it's no surprise MJ picked Dream as part of his personal starting 5....

Spur fan don't think anyone was better than Duncan :lol

Was Dream your favorite player growing up since you were born and raised in Houston?

[Koolaid_Man]

Was Dream your favorite player growing up since you were born and raised in Houston?

I was born and raised in Capetown South Africa :lol

[midnightpulp]

I was born and raised in Capetown South Africa :lol

Ok.

Anyhow, make sure to generate good vibes tonight. Prior to game 1, you were friendly and outgoing with your support of the Spurs. And the Spurs went out and won game 1. After game 1, you returned to your bitter troll persona, starting threads about how the Spurs are lucky. Spurs lost game 2.

They need you, Kool. The Spurs need your positivity.

[Koolaid_Man]

Ok.

Anyhow, make sure to generate good vibes tonight. Prior to game 1, you were friendly and outgoing with your support of the Spurs. And the Spurs went out and won game 1. After game 1, you returned to your bitter troll persona, starting threads about how the Spurs are lucky. Spurs lost game 2.

They need you, Kool. The Spurs need your positivity.

ok...now get in the Club and support my new gay thread about your life...

[LkrFan]

^^ Y:lolu guys kill me

[weebo]

^ that's it and that's all...Simply put there would be no Duncan if he played against a Prime Dream...that was one cold blooded African and it's no surprise MJ picked Dream as part of his personal starting 5....

Spur fan don't think anyone was better than Duncan :lol

Ya like Jordan has an eye for talent :lol

[Killakobe81]

Career Timmy. Peak Olajawon. Not that his peak was as short as Shaq's but Tim has been more consistent than either and are all battling Kareem for best center/big man since 1970 ...

[StrengthAndHonor]

Even Charlie Sheen's troll is on drugs. Thats whats up dude. Props tbh on this troll. :lol

[baseline bum]

I'm guessing you're about 13-years-old. Seeing highlights on youtube doesn't really tell the story.

Hakeem 32.8PPG(48%FG), 11.5RPG, 2BPG
O'Neal 28PPG(60% FG), 12.5RPG, 2.5BPG

O'Neal much more efficient, actually better numbers and you could say he outplayed him... but lost the series.

Shaq was pretty awesome that year. I remember he had this unguardable baby hook shot that was automatic in 95, and he quit going to it until 2001. Was pretty frustrating watching Shaq only be a dunker from 96-99 when that shot was so devastating in 95. I thought that was Shaq's best year until 2000.

[m33p0]

But I want to be clear that in no way I'm saying Shaq was the reason Orlando lost. Shaq was actually magnificent. Its just that Olajuwon was better.

it was Nick Anderson who failed the Magic, when he couldn't convert even one free throw to win game 1 for orlando. his confidence was shot after that. hakeem did outplay shaq tho.

[ezau]

Duncan because I'm a homer.

[RudyRay]

Dream is better than Duncan by the slightest margin.

[Clipper Nation]

"If I can't beat you, I'll be a man and say I can't beat you. I'm not going to [cry about it] ... I'm the first guy to say that somebody is better than me. I was the first guy to say Hakeem Olajuwon beat me in the [1995] NBA finals. He killed me. He dominated me. I didn't go, 'Oh, he's traveling. They had experience. Wah-wah-wah.' I'm a man. Hakeem Olajuwon dusted my butt."

-O'Neal

Shaq also insists to this day that he won a ring in 2004, so using his quotes probably doesn't help your argument :lol

[StrengthAndHonor]

Shaq also insists to this day that he won a ring in 2004, so using his quotes probably doesn't help your argument :lol

One of the most retarded poster in this forum tbh. And thats saying a lot.

:lol quoting his own troll acct
:lol creating an imaginary buddy to agree/disagree with
:lol exposed lebron fan posing as a clippers fan

[Rogue]

They don't even play the same position imho. Duncan can play C in the current league but he was more of a PF back in the 90s, Dream would probably eat him alive at C with better strength in a 90s style game. Both players have excellent footwork, Duncan has better all-round skills which include passing, dribbling and mid-range shooting so he can play PF and play well, while Dream was stuck at C his whole career.

[AchillesHeel]

They didn't have Prime Glide.

even that version of Glide was putting up 19 7 and 5

[AchillesHeel]

Also, Duncan is 9th all-time in career PER; Olajuwon is 16th.

This ends the debate right here.

[AchillesHeel]

ROFL No, but it's a contributing factor.

- Two times more championships
- More finals MVPs
- More regular season MVPs
- 9th all-time in career PER to Olajuwon's 16th
- 2nd all-time in career defensive rating to Olajuwon's 15th
- Although has better stats, still left a ton of stats on the table for the betterment of the team
- Olajuwon completely done at Duncan's age, Duncan in the NBA finals

I agree that Duncan is way better career wise, peak wise is debatable but Duncan is 2nd GOAT behind MJ and Olajuwon is just a solid top 10 candidate.

[SupremeGuy]

Not even close, tbh. Duncan owns Hakeem. I understand that this is mostly a troll thread, but seriously, it's kind of weak.

[urunobili]

it's debatable he was better than D-Rob not close to TOSB

[TheChillFactor]

The two things I'll say about Duncan is first, he has aged a little better, so Duncan is probably a little better player later in his career than Hakeem was later in his.

Olauwon at 37: 44 games, 10.3 PPG, 6.2 RPG

lmao

[The Batman]

Olauwon at 37: 44 games, 10.3 PPG, 6.2 RPG

lmao

Dream had 13 straight years of 20+ ppg, Duncan had a streak of 8 and 9 total.

Dream had 9 seasons at 23+ ppg, Duncan had 3.

Dream had 4 seasons of 25+ ppg, Duncan had 1 and all of Dream's were higher than Duncan's 1.

Even with his low production latter years, Dream's career FG% is higher than Timmy's.

Dream has 14 years at .500 or greater, Timmy has 8.

Dream has a higher FT%.

Dream has a higher 3PT%.

Dream has higher FG attempted percentage and higher FG made numbers.

Timmy has averaged slightly more minutes: 35.8 to 35.7 for Dream.

Defensively?

Dream leads substantially in steals and blocks.

Duncan's best year for steals (0.9) is the same as Dream's worst year, when he was 37 years old.

Dream blocked an average of 3 or more shots per game for 9 years and his career average is 3.1 bpg.

Duncan's seasonal high was 2.9, a number Dream did not fall below until he was 35 years old.

Duncan's high in RPG is 12.9, a number Dream beat 4 times (his high was 14 rpg).

[The Batman]

Playoffs?

Dream wins FG%, 3P%, FT%, PPG, steals, blocks, and PER.

Dream had playoff PPG averages over 25 7 times, Duncan averaged 25+ PPG in the playoffs twice.

Dream was over 30 ppg twice, Duncan never.

Duncan had some great rebounding playoffs, but he never approached Dream's high of 16.8 RPG.

Duncan led the NBA in Field Goals, Free Throws, Defensive Rebounds, and Total Rebounds, all in the 01-02 season, as well as twice in games played. He also led 3 times in Defensive Rating, 1 time in Offensive

Win (http://bbs.clutchfans.net/showpost.php?p=7622529&postcount=107#) Shares, 5 times in Defensive Win Shares, and twice in Win Shares. Total: 17.

Dream led the NBA in:

Games (4 years)
Field Goal Attempts (1)
Offensive Rebounds (1)
Defensive Rebounds (2)
Total Rebounds (2)
Blocks (2)
Rebounds Per Game (2)
Blocks Per Game (3)
Offensive Rebounding % (1)
Defensive Rebounding % (2)
Total Rebounding % (1)
Defensive Rating (5)
Defensive Win Shares (4)

Total: 30.

[Budkin]

Totally different position. Hard to compare. IMO Olajuwon is in the top 3 centers of all time.

[spurraider21]

:lol 3pt percentage

:lmao

[Amaso]

Hakeem had a shitty supporting cast for the bulk of his career.

There's really nothing at all that Duncan does better than Hakeem. Hakeem is a better offensive player, a better defensive player, and a better rebounder. Not by much but he is slightly better at every aspect of the game.

I always laugh at the people think Hakeem was only a beast for two years, like it was some sort of fluke. They won the championships those two years because they finally had a reasonable supporting cast around him. The supporting cast wasn't even that great tbh.

[TheChillFactor]

Dream had 13 straight years of 20+ ppg, Duncan had a streak of 8 and 9 total.

Dream had 9 seasons at 23+ ppg, Duncan had 3.

Dream had 4 seasons of 25+ ppg, Duncan had 1 and all of Dream's were higher than Duncan's 1.

Even with his low production latter years, Dream's career FG% is higher than Timmy's.

Dream has 14 years at .500 or greater, Timmy has 8.

Dream has a higher FT%.

Dream has a higher 3PT%.

Dream has higher FG attempted percentage and higher FG made numbers.

Timmy has averaged slightly more minutes: 35.8 to 35.7 for Dream.

Defensively?

Dream leads substantially in steals and blocks.

Duncan's best year for steals (0.9) is the same as Dream's worst year, when he was 37 years old.

Dream blocked an average of 3 or more shots per game for 9 years and his career average is 3.1 bpg.

Duncan's seasonal high was 2.9, a number Dream did not fall below until he was 35 years old.

Duncan's high in RPG is 12.9, a number Dream beat 4 times (his high was 14 rpg).

Pace, dummy.

[The Batman]

Pace, dummy.

Nope. Thats called being the better player and having to carry a team morr than Duncan ever did.

[Josepatches_]

When you talk about LeBron he's not so great because he only has one ring. So I guess 4>2 and Tim Duncan is better player than olajuwon.

Anyway I would pick TD. I'm sure we wouldn't have been a better team since 1997 with Olajuwon instead of Timmy.

[The Batman]

When you talk about LeBron he's not so great because he only has one ring. So I guess 4>2 and Tim Duncan is better player than olajuwon.

Anyway I would pick TD. I'm sure we wouldn't have been a better team since 1997 with Olajuwon instead of Timmy.

:rollin



PELTON'S RATING: 8.9

Position: C | Age: 31

Result: Won NBA Finals | Finals MVP

GP - 23 | PPG - 28.9 | RPG - 11.0 | APG - 4.3 | BPG - 4.0 | SPG - 1.7 | TS% - 56.8 | USG - 31.4

The year before he was reunited with college teammate Clyde Drexler, Olajuwon dragged a Rockets team without a second star to the first of back-to-back championships. Olajuwon averaged more than twice as many points in the playoffs as Houston's second-leading scorer (Vernon Maxwell, 13.8 points per game), the highest such ratio ever for a championship team. But the Rockets' fleet of outside shooters ideally suited Olajuwon's game, and he dominated the defensive end, becoming the only player to average 4.0 blocks per game in a Finals run.


Houston needed Olajuwon to be great every night, and he

scored (http://bbs.clutchfans.net/showthread.php?t=239677#) at least 20 points in 22 of 23 playoff games, including a pair of 40-point efforts. In the NBA Finals, Olajuwon outdueled Patrick Ewing of the New York Knicks (http://bbs.clutchfans.net/showthread.php?t=239677#), averaging 26.1 points while holding Ewing to 18.9 PPG on 36.3 percent shooting in the Rockets' seven-game triumph.







Does Duncan lead that 94 team to a ring?

[AchillesHeel]

Nope. Thats called being the better player and having to carry a team morr than Duncan ever did.

If pace and winning doesn't matter, then by your logic Wilt and Oscar Robertson should be the two undisputed GOAT's based on inflated stats.

prime Oscar easily GOAT guard by avging 30+ ppg 10+ apg for 5 years, 4 in a row and Wilt easily GOAT center by avging 21+ reb 20+ ppg 10 straight seasons and having a season of 23.8 ppg 24.3 reb 8.6 ast

pace matters, winning matters, playing for whatever team matters, Duncan could have easily put up those Hakeem stats if he had a more medicore rosters and had to do more. Timmy never took more than 18 shots a game for a season, Hakeem took over 18 shots for at least 5 seasons with multiple 20+ FGA, has a career average 1.6 higher attempts while only averaging 1.6 more ppg.

If you look at PER, Duncan has a higher career PER and multiple 27+ PER seasons while Hakeem has none over 26. Also, Hakeem has a worse Offensive and Defensive rating than Timmy and lower winshares. Hakeem has the edge on D and looks pretty similar on O, but again his pace was much higher, in their primes Hakeem's pace was 101.2 compared to Timmy's 90.0. They played in different systems and you can't really compare them stat by stat and expect one more block or point per game to determine who the better player was. That's where accolades come in.

Timmy is the more efficient offensive player and won a lot more than Hakeem did, despite Hakeem having multiple HOFs during his top 10 all-time-worthy career. Hakeem was a great player but has twice as less rings as Timmy.

[The Batman]

If pace and winning doesn't matter, then by your logic Wilt and Oscar Robertson should be the two undisputed GOAT's based on inflated stats.

prime Oscar easily GOAT guard by avging 30+ ppg 10+ apg for 5 years, 4 in a row and Wilt easily GOAT center by avging 21+ reb 20+ ppg 10 straight seasons and having a season of 23.8 ppg 24.3 reb 8.6 ast

pace matters, winning matters, playing for whatever team matters, Duncan could have easily put up those Hakeem stats if he had a more medicore rosters and had to do more. Timmy never took more than 18 shots a game for a season, Hakeem took over 18 shots for at least 5 seasons with multiple 20+ FGA, has a career average 1.6 higher attempts while only averaging 1.6 more ppg.

If you look at PER, Duncan has a higher career PER and multiple 27+ PER seasons while Hakeem has none over 26. Also, Hakeem has a worse Offensive and Defensive rating than Timmy and lower winshares. Hakeem has the edge on D and looks pretty similar on O, but again his pace was much higher, in their primes Hakeem's pace was 101.2 compared to Timmy's 90.0. They played in different systems and you can't really compare them stat by stat and expect one more block or point per game to determine who the better player was. That's where accolades come in.

Timmy is the more efficient offensive player and won a lot more than Hakeem did, despite Hakeem having multiple HOFs during his top 10 all-time-worthy career. Hakeem was a great player but has twice as less rings as Timmy.

Hakeem had a broken Ralph Sampson and Clyde Drexler at the end of his career :lol. And no, reading comprehension fails you when you say Duncan was more efficient.

[AchillesHeel]

Hakeem had a broken Ralph Sampson and Clyde Drexler at the end of his career :lol. And no, reading comprehension fails you when you say Duncan was more efficient.


He was more efficient on offense, PER - player efficiency rating, he was more efficient on offense, and Drexler put up 21 ppg 7 reb 4 apg, 22 PER and had a TS% of over 61% in the 95 season that he got traded there.

and in the playoffs Clyde put up 20 ppg 7 reb 5 ast and led the league in offensive win shares in that 95 playoffs, where Hakeem repeated.


Hakeem was dominant for both of his 2 titles but let's not act like he did it all by himself and the fact is Timmy still has twice as many rings and more FMVPs.

[The Batman]

He was more efficient on offense, PER - player efficiency rating, he was more efficient on offense, and Drexler put up 21 ppg 7 reb 4 apg, 22 PER and had a TS% of over 61% in the 95 season that he got traded there.

and in the playoffs Clyde put up 20 ppg 7 reb 5 ast and led the league in offensive win shares in that 95 playoffs, where Hakeem repeated.


Hakeem was dominant for both of his 2 titles but let's not act like he did it all by himself and the fact is Timmy still has twice as many rings and more FMVPs.

And Duncan had a Prime Parker (Potential HOF), Prime Ginobli (Definite), Bruce Bowen got his mofockin number retired :lol. both easily better than the supporting cast Hakeem had.

In regards to not doing it by himself, after Sampson, who did Hakeem have until Drexler as his supporting cast?


The year before he was reunited with college teammate Clyde Drexler, Olajuwon dragged a Rockets team without a second star to the first of back-to-back championships. Olajuwon averaged more than twice as many points in the playoffs as Houston's second-leading scorer (Vernon Maxwell, 13.8 points per game), the highest such ratio ever for a championship team. But the Rockets' fleet of outside shooters ideally suited Olajuwon's game, and he dominated the defensive end, becoming the only player to average 4.0 blocks per game in a Finals run.

[AchillesHeel]

And Duncan had a Prime Parker (Potential HOF), Prime Ginobli (Definite), Bruce Bowen got his mofockin number retired :lol. both easily better than the supporting cast Hakeem had.

In regards to not doing it by himself, after Sampson, who did Hakeem have until Drexler as his supporting cast?

he still won less, tbh.

[Big Empty]

Hakeem has registered about 3000 more minutes in his career. Thats about an entire season. So at the end of Duncans career we can look at the numbers. Hakeem was more athletic and a better shot blocker no doubt. But Tim never has been a one man team, as far as the points are concerned. He has always shared the ball, that shows in his assist totals. Tim could easily match his points if he was more active on scoring but he has always played into Pops system and over the years, has declined more to other players. But he could have taken more shots and scored just as many points. Id take Tim over Hakeem although its mighty close

[spurraider21]

Hakeem had a shitty supporting cast for the bulk of his career.

There's really nothing at all that Duncan does better than Hakeem. Hakeem is a better offensive player, a better defensive player, and a better rebounder. Not by much but he is slightly better at every aspect of the game.

I always laugh at the people think Hakeem was only a beast for two years, like it was some sort of fluke. They won the championships those two years because they finally had a reasonable supporting cast around him. The supporting cast wasn't even that great tbh.
the same is said about Lebron and Kobe yet you all are content with the rings argument so I don't see how you DON'T say "Hakeem isn't in Duncan's league"

[AchillesHeel]

the same is said about Lebron and Kobe yet you all are content with the rings argument so I don't see how you DON'T say "Hakeem isn't in Duncan's league"

Lebron vs Achilles? Both will go down as perennial chokers that were carried to titles by their HOF supporting casts, when it came down to winning they both choked on the biggest stage (Lebron's 07,11,13 Finals, Kobe's 00 Finals,04 Finals,08 Finals,2010 Game 7 6-24)-

[Jenks]

0 rings if Jordan doesn't go play high school baseball but ok

[Bane.]

0 rings if Jordan doesn't go play high school baseball but ok

GNSF will do anything to prop up Duncan.

[Jenks]

GNSF will do anything to prop up Duncan.
lolnets

[LkrFan]

Dream had 13 straight years of 20+ ppg, Duncan had a streak of 8 and 9 total.

Dream had 9 seasons at 23+ ppg, Duncan had 3.

Dream had 4 seasons of 25+ ppg, Duncan had 1 and all of Dream's were higher than Duncan's 1.

Even with his low production latter years, Dream's career FG% is higher than Timmy's.

Dream has 14 years at .500 or greater, Timmy has 8.

Dream has a higher FT%.

Dream has a higher 3PT%.

Dream has higher FG attempted percentage and higher FG made numbers.

Timmy has averaged slightly more minutes: 35.8 to 35.7 for Dream.

Defensively?

Dream leads substantially in steals and blocks.

Duncan's best year for steals (0.9) is the same as Dream's worst year, when he was 37 years old.

Dream blocked an average of 3 or more shots per game for 9 years and his career average is 3.1 bpg.

Duncan's seasonal high was 2.9, a number Dream did not fall below until he was 35 years old.

Duncan's high in RPG is 12.9, a number Dream beat 4 times (his high was 14 rpg).

Oh snap! :rollin