Manu will be the scapegoat as usual, but...

[ElNono]

...he was ok. He handed Splitter 3 dunks right under the rim, and Tiago wasted them all.

This game was decided by the Spurs' 20 turnovers (of which Manu only had one).

The only criticism, IMO, is that he's going to need to be much more aggressive if Tony is gonna be hobbled. He took only 4 shots (until garbage time) in 20 mins. That's not going to get it done if we have Tony hurt.

But I'm sure people want to vent, so go ahead an crucify him...

[hommeaetage]

C'mon, we were watching the game. Stats doesn't tell the whole story. Manu was horrible, period (the whole series tbh) Splitter has been horrendous as well, but he's not getting paid to be a game changer

[ElNono]

I was watching the game... that's the assessment... I know it's trendy to pile on Manu on every loss... or some people expected a SuperManu game from him...

But the Heat is blitzing him on every pick and roll... he's passing to Tiago right under the rim, and he gets his shit blocked... that's not on Manu.

I do think if he's going to get out of that shooting slump, he's going to have to shoot more. 4 shots is not enough.

[Baam]

I agree, he had to play with Joseph who plays scared and Neal who is too loose with the ball, he wasn't in a great situation, Manu needs Boris at the 4 to help with the playmaking, not added pressure from playing with scrubs.

[resistanze]

Taking off balance threes isn't a way to break out of a slump either, tbh.

[N0 LyF3 ScRuB]

He needs to score

[Baam]

Taking off balance threes isn't a way to break out of a slump either, tbh.

Yeah Manu taking off the dribble 3s when he's shooting them below 30% is one thing that's pretty much inexcusable.

[Floyd Pacquiao]

yep manu was terrible, just too old for these athletic nigs

[ElNono]

Taking off balance threes isn't a way to break out of a slump either, tbh.

Miami traps the ballhandler on the pick and roll. He's not going to be able to drive, so he's gonna have to shot. Especially if Splitter is going to keep missing shit right under the basket.

[nkdlunch]

he was ok?????????????????????

nah. wake up

he was terrible

[ALVAREZ6]

Splitter is the softest pussy I've seen. 7-foot man with a 7-inch vagina. Gets blocked by guards, gets stripped by guards, cannot rebound over smaller players.

[ElNono]

He took only 4 shots... including the step back 3... if anything, he needs to keep shooting until he gets over the slump...

[noles1983]

fuck turnobili

[in2deep]

yes Splitter is a soft pussy but Manu is not only soft but a stupid fuck pussy. fuck him. :(

[T Park]

Elnono with the goods. 100% dead on.

[m33p0]

win or lose, i will always be on manu's bandwagon. fuck y'all haterz!!!!

[ElNono]

Spurs had 20 turnovers... Manu? one... but let's pile-on on him... it's trendy...

[sammy]

...he was ok. He handed Splitter 3 dunks right under the rim, and Tiago wasted them all.

This game was decided by the Spurs' 20 turnovers (of which Manu only had one).

The only criticism, IMO, is that he's going to need to be much more aggressive if Tony is gonna be hobbled. He took only 4 shots (until garbage time) in 20 mins. That's not going to get it done if we have Tony hurt.

But I'm sure people want to vent, so go ahead an crucify him...

I agree! All of the haters will blame Manu, just typical assholes who seem to forget how many times he saved us in so many series and championships! When he's down, all of the haters come on this board and blame him! All of you assholes GTFO! All of them played bad! Too many turnovers and refs fucking us all night was going to be difficult to win! Pop taking Parker, Green and Duncan out too early in the first quarter when Green was on fire shooting the three! We lost our rhythm and never got it back! We lost the lead and Splitter turned the ball over or got blocked! Took too long to bring Diaw back in after he got us within 3! I'm not giving up on the Spurs! Spurs in 6!

[Richie]

Manu 0-7 from 3 in the last 2 games, and they're all bad shots.

Miami runs and gets a layup off every one of his 3s

[resistanze]

Miami traps the ballhandler on the pick and roll. He's not going to be able to drive, so he's gonna have to shot. Especially if Splitter is going to keep missing shit right under the basket.
But he's making terrible decisions with the ball all-around. Tiago was horrendous obviously, but Manu finding him 2-3 times doesn't excuse his other poor passes, continued fadeaway threes, and stumbling into the lane out of control. He's just been terrible, no way around it.

[hommeaetage]

No one is asking Manu to be Ditka Manu at this point of his career, but he's costing us game right now.

[siraulo23]

I NEVER shit on Manu but he was beyond horrible in game 4

Miami has no respect for his drive, he was infinitely worse than he was in game 2

[Juggity]

Nah, this loss is 100% on Manu. What the stat sheet doesn't tell you is that the quality of Manu's 3 point attempts were so bad that they were effectively turnovers.

Let us also not forget that he can no longer execute simple basketball skills, such as dribbling, passing, etc.

[sammy]

I agree, he had to play with Joseph who plays scared and Neal who is too loose with the ball, he wasn't in a great situation, Manu needs Boris at the 4 to help with the playmaking, not added pressure from playing with scrubs.

I totally agree! As soon as Joseph came in, he turned the ball over! WTF!

[slick'81]

Yeah he was ok

[in2deep]

5 pts 1 TO 4 Fouls from one of the big 3 in a pivotal Finals game

how can you defend this????

you are some drunk homers in here

[ElNono]

But he's making terrible decisions with the ball all-around. Tiago was horrendous obviously, but Manu finding him 2-3 times doesn't excuse his other poor passes, continued fadeaway threes, and stumbling into the lane out of control. He's just been terrible, no way around it.

What other poor passes? Again, one turnover (the bad pass to Tim)... only 4 shots (including the step back 3)...

He needs to produce more. Not arguing that.

[DPG21920]

...he was ok. He handed Splitter 3 dunks right under the rim, and Tiago wasted them all.

This game was decided by the Spurs' 20 turnovers (of which Manu only had one).

The only criticism, IMO, is that he's going to need to be much more aggressive if Tony is gonna be hobbled. He took only 4 shots (until garbage time) in 20 mins. That's not going to get it done if we have Tony hurt.

But I'm sure people want to vent, so go ahead an crucify him...

What? Let's say Tiago finished all 3. Manu has 5 points, 5 asst, 2 reb, 1 TO on 20% shooting.

[sammy]

Miami traps the ballhandler on the pick and roll. He's not going to be able to drive, so he's gonna have to shot. Especially if Splitter is going to keep missing shit right under the basket.

Agree!

[Dingle Barry]

player cults of personality are fucking gay. Manu has played like ass basically the entire playoffs and is beyond washed up.. Fuck off.

[jimo2305]

http://img90.imageshack.us/img90/2406/x7m7.png

[2centsworth]

anyone defending Manu can't be taken seriously. guy missed layups, fts, jump shots, etc... brutal. That Tiago sucked too doesn't make Manu and better

[sventhedog]

seriously, how many good games did manu have this playoffs? except for that winning 3 pt shot vs GS. he's supposed to be one of the big three. and now that kawhi and green are scoring more, all he needs to do is somehow contribute in some stretches. the spurs already have passers but no big time scorers. so if manu can score, even just in bunches, that would be cool.

[ElNono]

What? Let's say Tiago finished all 3. Manu has 5 points, 5 asst, 2 reb, 1 TO on 20% shooting.

Did you miss reading the 3rd line of the post you quoted?

[DPG21920]

In no way shape or form, in any universe, is that considered "ok".

[eds]

i honestly hope manu will have a comeback game just like wade tonight

[sammy]

What other poor passes? Again, one turnover (the bad pass to Tim)... only 4 shots (including the step back 3)...

He needs to produce more. Not arguing that.

I agree with you, but you are not going to convince the haters! I guarantee if Manu plays lights out in Game 5 or Game 6, all of the haters will not post at all and go back in hiding!

[SpursOwn]

Lol letting him off he hook because he made some nice passeses to splitter. Just stfu.

[ElNono]

He was ok... "bad" ginobili is Turnobili, or a guy that doesn't create shots for teammates... he just needs to be more aggressive...

[crc21209]

Manu just throws some unneccesary bad passes too much in a game. This loss is on his lack of aggression on O, Splitter and Duncan being careless with the ball and bringing it down too low after catching the damn ball..

[RD2191]

Fuck manu and splitter

[hater]

5 pts 1 TO 4 Fouls from one of the big 3 in a pivotal Finals game

how can you defend this????

you are some drunk homers in here

:lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao v


that's the Church of Manu for you

those motherfuckers will sacrifice their 1st newbord before accepting Manu is fucking done and is hurting the Spurs in teh Finals


He's supposed to be one of teh Big 3 and this motherfucker is the worst player on the court

and yet, Manufans will say he was ok and the fault is on the other players

:lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao

very typical here. I'm used to this kind of delusion from Manufans

hopefully this guy will retire by end of season so we dont' have to put up with this delusion anymore

[DPG21920]

He was ok... "bad" ginobili is Turnobili, or a guy that doesn't create shots for teammates... he just needs to be more aggressive...

This is where you need to evaluate what "ok" means. There is no argument (even giving him credit for 3 more assists) that 5/5/2 with a turnover on 20% FG with 4 fouls is "ok".

[ElNono]

Smitty nailing it in the postgame... he's basically saying because there's no backup PG, Manu has to be the backup PG... a facilitator role. That's just not conducive to him scoring a lot.

[ballhog]

Miami played like a desperate team. Made everyone look bad. Couldn't miss, got great calls from refs, got every jumpball, looseball, and putback. Can they do it two games in a row on the road? Big question.

[ElNono]

This is where you need to evaluate what "ok" means. There is no argument (even giving him credit for 3 more assists) that 5/5/2 with a turnover on 20% FG with 4 fouls is "ok".

It's an opinion... I think he was "ok"... I've seen 10 times worse Ginobili... if you disagree, you disagree.

[hater]

Smitty nailing it in the postgame... he's basically saying because there's no backup PG, Manu has to be the backup PG... a facilitator role. That's just not conducive to him scoring a lot.

Nono you just went over the line on homerness. Just stop embarrassing yourself. Manu was shit. He was supposed to step up when Parker gets hurt. Dude has been shit. wake the fuck up

[hater]

It's an opinion... I think he was "ok"... I've seen 10 times worse Ginobili... if you disagree, you disagree.

not in the NBA Finals dummy

this is the NBA Finals not some stupid fucking regular season game

[ElNono]

But let's be trendy and pile on Manu... I mean, I understand people want to vent...

[hater]

"manu was ok this Finals home game"

"5pts 4 fouls and 1 to in 29 minutes in a loss is" "ok"

:lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao

[ElNono]

Let's pretend the 20 turnovers that absolutely killed us had nothing do with losing this game...

Easier to bitch about Manu than playing poorly... I get it...

[Rapper]

please start a thread of the critical game 5

[Brazil]

:lol Manu was terrible...end of story

[ElNono]

Manu needs to shoot more... that criticism is valid, IMO...

[Brazil]

:lmao ok

[Ryan Fitzpatrick]

Pretty liberal use of the word "ok"

[resistanze]

Let's pretend the 20 turnovers that absolutely killed us had nothing do with losing this game...

Easier to bitch about Manu than playing poorly... I get it...

The two are not mutually exclusive by any means tbh...I don't see any rational fans blaming solely Manu for the loss. The acknowledgment that he was fucking horrendous doesn't mean the Spurs weren't careless, their wasn't defesnse lax at times, Tiago wasn't a pussy, and the Spurs didn't find Duncan enough in the post...

[hater]

:lmao he was ok

jessus christ

[John B]

Spurs had 20 turnovers and not all of them are forced. The last minutes, why wasn't Green and Neal in to at least take 3 pointers. A couple of 3's and the momentum could be on the Spurs way. Miami capitalizes on turnovers. We gave them too much offensive rebounds and they don't even have a true big. Boxout and let Kawhi rebound. Spurs need to be hungry. Go Spurs Go!

[Ryan Fitzpatrick]

If Manu played an "ok" game then Kobe's Game 7 against Boston is GOAT-worthy

[jag]

Dude was trash. Straight up trash. Fans at the game didn't even cheer in the 2nd half when he was subbed in. There was an awkward silence over the entire crowd because its painfully obvious he's a deteriment to the team. Gary Neal bring more to the table at this point.

[ElNono]

The two are not mutually exclusive by any means tbh...I don't see any rational fans blaming solely Manu for the loss. The acknowledgment that he was fucking horrendous doesn't mean the Spurs weren't careless, their wasn't defesnse lax at times, Tiago wasn't a pussy, and the Spurs didn't find Duncan enough in the post...

This isn't about his numbers, but what he produces for the team... as DPG said, if Splitter finishes those dunks, Manu only has 3 more assists, but big picture is the Spurs have 6 more points, which in a tight game (and this was a tight game all the way to the 3rd quarter) is huge. He doesn't have to score the ball to produce. He produced "ok" today by what the Spurs need for him...

But seeing Tony can't play for more than a half, he's going to have to do more himself on the scoring department...

[jag]

If Manu played an "ok" game then Kobe's Game 7 against Boston is GOAT-worthy

The fucking goods

[Birn]

If we're going to win this series we need Manu to play well. Not great...just effective at both ends and with an impact on the game. My bet is that Manu will be in the starting lineup on Sunday to match up with Miller. Last year on games 5 and 6 of WCF he was in the starting lineup and scored 34 and 18 points. By starting him, he'll get his rhythm early and establish his confidence.

[ElNono]

If we're going to win this series we need Manu to play well. Not great...just effective at both ends and with an impact on the game. My bet is that Manu will be in the starting lineup on Sunday to match up with Miller. Last year on games 5 and 6 of WCF he was in the starting lineup and scored 34 and 18 points. By starting him, he'll get his rhythm early and establish his confidence.

That might work, but we really don't have a backup PG... especially if Tony needs to keep playing limited minutes...

[resistanze]

This isn't about his numbers, but what he produces for the team... as DPG said, if Splitter finishes those dunks, Manu only has 3 more assists, but big picture is the Spurs have 6 more points, which in a tight game (and this was a tight game all the way to the 3rd quarter) is huge. He doesn't have to score the ball to produce. He produced "ok" today by what the Spurs need for him...

But seeing Tony can't play for more than a half, he's going to have to do more himself on the scoring department...

Even if we accept that his main problem was not doing anything offensively....he was still horrible using that standard. Just because he was 'denied' of 3 potential assists by a pussy (even though this happens in every game to players) doesn't mean he did anything ok.

If he needs to score more, fine (I don't believe he capable of doing so, imo). But he didn't - and he was horrible.

[Doe]

This thread is hilarious. 5pts on 20% is bad for Joseph let alone a member of the big three. :rollin

[in2deep]

This thread is hilarious. 5pts on 20% is bad for Joseph let alone a member of the big three. :rollin

:lmao If Gary Neal posted those numbers he'd be crucified :lmao

[HI-FI]

even though I think ElNono (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=8054) is absolutely wrong in his defense of Manu, in a weird way I admire him for doubling down on the :downspin:. Nigga is a believer in Manu til the end.

[ElNono]

Even if we accept that his main problem was not doing anything offensively....he was still horrible using that standard. Just because he was 'denied' of 3 potential assists by a pussy (even though this happens in every game to players) doesn't mean he did anything ok.

That's what he's been doing all season for the team that's in the NBA Finals... I'd say the Spurs know exactly what they need from him and he's been giving the team just that.


If he needs to score more, fine (I don't believe he capable of doing so, imo). But he didn't - and he was horrible.

He needs to score more because of a special situation (Tony being hurt). I don't know if he can or not, but the only way he's going to be able to do it in this particular series is simply shooting more. Miami doubles him up when he handles the rock, so he ain't going to be driving, unless he plays actual SG instead of PG.

[ElNono]

even though I think ElNono is absolutely wrong in his defense of Manu, in a weird way I admire him doubling down on the :downspin:. Nigga is a believer in Manu til the end.

He's not without blame... as I explained in the OP. And the Spurs will need more from him with Tony being down from here on out.

It's actually debatable the Spurs can pull this series off with Tony hurt as it is.

But this game was lost on the 20 turnovers... and this is one of those very rare games where Manu only had one. So I know it's easy to pile on, but this game was lost somewhere else, tbh...

[rudwick]

Manu produced a loss tonight. -22 +/-. Nobody else was even close to that.
We won the part of the game he didn't play.

[in2deep]

dude he was beyond terrible. the sooner you accept it, the sooner you will be relieved of this stress on you

anyway good luck bro, seem like you really need it

[DPG21920]

TP has nothing to do with Manu's numbers. If TP had the best series of his life, it wouldn't be good enough with Manu's terrible averages/play this series.

[ElNono]

:lol why would I be stressed at all? The only thing that stresses me is Tony being as close to 100% on Sunday... this game is in the books, nothing we say here will change that.

[Strategic]

Blaming Manu for this loss is about as stupid as giving him credit for winning that game against Memphis. Is that what you're saying? He's only like what, the second highest paid player on this team? Every one makes decision mistakes, no problem. I'm going to start calling him "fumbles"? This team can still win in spite of him, I guess. Maybe he'll get a last shot op(he tries to make sure of that) and be the savior. He reminds me of a grandpa that cannot remember which hand to wipe his ass with, even after 70 years of using his left. There is about 9 Spurs that didn't play well enough, or maybe they're just not good enough? The Heat covered the perimeter and proved tonight that the Spurs do not have adequate inside game to beat them. I think it's gonna be Parker, Green, Leonard and Neal, or nothing.

[ElNono]

Bottom line, the Spurs were up 2-1 in the NBA Finals with Manu giving the numbers he's been giving all season.

Tony got hurt, so you expect the vets in Manu and TD to step up their games. Manu did not today, he wasn't aggressive enough. That's going to have to change if Tony is gonna remain hobbled from here on out.

The rest of his game was ok. He created for other players, was not a liability on defense, etc.

[baseline bum]

Shit drives me nuts when Manu makes long crosscourt passes to people in bad positions. Can't count how many times I have seen Manu throw the ball to Neal in the corner when he had nowhere to go with it, and even worse throwing it too high so that Neal would have to jump to catch them. He made some nice passes today, but is way too wild to be running the offense when Parker is on the bench. Not really sure what the answer is other than hope Parker can play 42-45 quality minutes Sunday.

[Brazil]

The funniest part of the thread is as usual :lol.
As usual is Manu is god and Parker sucks, this is what usual means in ST forum.

[ElNono]

Blaming Manu for this loss is about as stupid as giving him credit for winning that game against Memphis. Is that what you're saying? He's only like what, the second highest paid player on this team? Every one makes decision mistakes, no problem. I'm going to start calling him "fumbles"? This team can still win in spite of him, I guess. Maybe he'll get a last shot op(he tries to make sure of that) and be the savior. He reminds me of a grandpa that cannot remember which hand to wipe his ass with, even after 70 years of using his left. There is about 9 Spurs that didn't play well enough, or maybe they're just not good enough? The Heat covered the perimeter and proved tonight that the Spurs do not have adequate inside game to beat them. I think it's gonna be Parker, Green, Leonard and Neal, or nothing.

He's the highest paid Spur until the end of the season.

[in2deep]

I don't get it. Manu is part of the famous "big 3"

Parker is hurt

so Duncan and Manu need to step up

how is 5pts 4 fouls and 1to "stepping up"

how can possibly be called an "ok" game?????

if someone needs to be blamed its the one in the big 3 that completely failed. Manu Ginobili.

I just don't get how ppl cannot see this

[ElNono]

The funniest part of the thread is as usual :lol.
As usual is Manu is god and Parker sucks, this is what usual means in ST forum.

I missed where anybody is dragging Tony down in this thread, tbh... I'm rooting 100% for him to be healthy Sunday... I'm skeptical we have a shot regardless of how Manu plays if Tony isn't healthy...

[in2deep]

I missed where anybody is dragging Tony down in this thread, tbh... I'm rooting 100% for him to be healthy Sunday... I'm skeptical we have a shot regardless of how Manu plays if Tony isn't healthy...

"regardless of how manu plays"

see that's where your homerism is kicking in and badly

Manu needs to have a very good game for Spurs to have a shot. Manu has an ok game or worse and Spurs lose.

Wake up

[Capt Bringdown]

Same as it ever was, there are Spurs fans, and there's the Manu fanbois.

Did Manufan ever imagine at any point that their precious idol would be so severely outplayed in the finals by Ray fucking Allen?

[MannyIsGod]

Really? He was OK? You think that Manu is OK? REALLY?

Holy fuck. THAT Manu needs to retire. That shit is not big 3 worthy in the least.

[MannyIsGod]

Also, those passes to Tiago may not be turnovers for Manu but they might as well be. Just because you complete a pass to someone under the basket doesn't mean you just put them in a good position or that it was a good pass.

I'm still shocked you think that Manu was OK, though. Even if those are all assists its still a piss poor performance from a member of the big 3.

[in2deep]

5 fucking points


:lmao wow

fucking horrid for real

[ElNono]

For people that still don't get it:

Manu did what he normally does: he created for other players, he defended well, he didn't turn the ball over (that was all good)

He just wasn't aggressive enough (if he did, he would've had a 'great' game). That's certainly an area of criticism, and something he needs to step up from here on out.

That's at the personal level. This game was lost on the 20 turnovers, which Manu had very little to do with.

[DPG21920]

When you shoot 20%, it's not good to take more shots. :lol At defending well with 4 fouls and guys going off all over the place.

[MannyIsGod]

YOU don't get it. You're the only one that thinks that because Manu didn't have lots of turn overs on the stat sheet that he had an "OK" game. You're setting the bar lower than I'd set it for anyone on this team not named Corey Joseph.

[ElNono]

The Spurs need Parker healthy and to stop turning the ball over . THAT is what's going to give the Spurs a shot.

Manu hasn't been Supermanu for a long time. He's just an above average sub at this stage. People needed to adjust expectations a long time ago.

Unfortunately some people didn't, and are hearthbroken now.

[SA210]

F that. I'm sticking with Manu. It ain't pretty at all right now. But f that. That's my boy right there. Game 5.

[in2deep]

Manu did what he normally does

if you're talking about Manu post AllStar game. I agree. this shit is what he normally does. Although I think he averages way above 5pts.

still this is the Finals and this is vs the Heat. If you think Manu is OK with what he normally did post Alltar break, then you need some serious medication. We will get nowhere with what Manu normally did then. Nowhere.

Manu needs to step up like this is the Finals. Like Wade, Bosh and Lebron stepped up. He needs to step up. Or it's already over. Can you dig that?

[ElNono]

He was actually 0-4 until garbage time. The percentage isn't really a problem (sure, i much rather he be 4-4) seeing he only took 4 shots, but the fact he only took 4 is the part that's gonna have to change. Especially when our #1 scorer is hobbled.

[DPG21920]

The Spurs need Parker healthy and to stop turning the ball over . THAT is what's going to give the Spurs a shot.

Manu hasn't been Supermanu for a long time. He's just an above average sub at this stage. People needed to adjust expectations a long time ago.

Unfortunately some people didn't, and are hearthbroken now.

Post his averages for this series and tell me if its above average for anyone in the NBA.

[in2deep]

not to mention Ray Allen raped the shit out of Manu. LOL he was ok and we will be fine as long as Parker is healthy :lmao

wow talk about delusional

[MannyIsGod]

The Spurs need Parker healthy and to stop turning the ball over . THAT is what's going to give the Spurs a shot.

Manu hasn't been Supermanu for a long time. He's just an above average sub at this stage. People needed to adjust expectations a long time ago.

Unfortunately some people didn't, and are hearthbroken now.

He doesn't need to be Super Manu. No one is asking for 30 points. Well, no one is expecting that. But he was terrible out there tonight and he's been pretty terrible for the most part of the playoffs. Its not good enough to play a Corey Joseph or Gary Neal role. Shit, Gary Neal and Danny Green got to the bucket way more than Manu did tonight. If thats what Manu is, then he just needs to retire.

[MannyIsGod]

He was actually 0-4 until garbage time. The percentage isn't really a problem (sure, i much rather he be 4-4) seeing he only took 4 shots, but the fact he only took 4 is the part that's gonna have to change. Especially when our #1 scorer is hobbled.

LOL!!!!!!!

[ElNono]

if you're talking about Manu post AllStar game. I agree. this shit is what he normally does. Although I think he averages way above 5pts.

Which is exactly what I pointed out in the OP. He will need to score more. That's a valid criticism.

That doesn't undo the other stuff that he did well tonight.

Again, it's easy to focus on one guy, but the Spurs lost this game on the turnovers. If we're going to have 20 turnovers a game from here on out, we're going to see a lot of garbage time.

[MannyIsGod]

This is some Wild Cobra level rationalization from El Nono

[MannyIsGod]

FYI - I do think Turnovers and offensive rebounds are the main reason the Spurs lost but they aren't likely to win any games with Manu playing like this. It IS a problem.

[Ryan Fitzpatrick]

Pop needs to tell Manu about the rabbits

[ElNono]

LOL!!!!!!!

He took 4 shots... if he took 10+, then yeah, shooting 0% is a problem.

[hater]

:lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao

ElNono proving he is not only the most delusional person in Spurstalk, he is the most delusional person in Sports

so manu didn't have many turnovers, therefore his performance was ok, and let's blame the rest of teh team. :lmao

wow. Manu was fucking useless out there not to mention he got completely torched in teh defensive end. He was slow, stupid and pathetic. He was the worst player in uniform out there.

How can someone possibly think Spurs have a chance with Manu playing like this, or even slightly better than this????

Manu is fucking done as I been saying and he is just proving it tonight. He is HURTING the team at this point. Pop needs to decide to sit this guy. Play Green and Kawhi 40+. Play Parker 40% +. Hell play TMAC. sit this piece of shit Argentinian down for good.

[MannyIsGod]

:lmao

Manu shooting 0% is not a problem.

I've heard it fucking all now.

[spurraider21]

He hasn't been able to get to the rim and he's not knocking down his jumper. Manu's passing is fine, but Manu is supposed to give us that x-factor scoring punch which was desperately needed in the 2nd half with Parker fading (likely as a result of the hammy)

[hater]

no his passing is horrible. it's all over the place and all over the wrong places. his passing sucks too

[ElNono]

He doesn't need to be Super Manu. No one is asking for 30 points. Well, no one is expecting that. But he was terrible out there tonight and he's been pretty terrible for the most part of the playoffs. Its not good enough to play a Corey Joseph or Gary Neal role. Shit, Gary Neal and Danny Green got to the bucket way more than Manu did tonight. If thats what Manu is, then he just needs to retire.

Neither Corey or Neal can set up the offense. Corey was actually terrible tonight. And that's the difference: Manu's role isn't Neal's role. He isn't being set up for shots. He's basically the backup PG that sets the table for everyone else.

At that role, from the bench, he's good for another 2 years, with a smaller salary, obviously.

[MannyIsGod]

LOL @ thread title. Manu scapegoat as usual. Poor Manu. :( :( :( :(

No Spur has been shown as much love as Manu over the past 10 years. Not Tim. Not Tony. But now all of a sudden he's the usual scapegoat and we should all be happy he shot 0% for most of the game and only had 1 TO.

[ElNono]

His passing was great. Probably the best passer on the team, if not close #2... if other Spurs can't finish the play, you can't pin that on Manu...

Terrible passers don't finish with just one turnover against the top defense in the league, tbh

[Splits]

Manu Ginobili's Finals:

7.3 PPG, 28.6 % FG, 76.9 % FT, 20% 3PT, 2.5 RB, 3 AS, 2.8 TO in ~24.6 MN

[MannyIsGod]

Neither Corey or Neal can set up the offense. Corey was actually terrible tonight. And that's the difference: Manu's role isn't Neal's role. He isn't being set up for shots. He's basically the backup PG that sets the table for everyone else.

At that role, from the bench, he's good for another 2 years, with a smaller salary, obviously.

LOL Gary Neal is supposed to get to the rim more than Manu? REALLY? Gary Neal took Lebron to the hole TWICE. Gary fucking Neal!!!!! Manu took a step back 3.

[MannyIsGod]

His passing was great. Probably the best passer on the team, if not close #2... if other Spurs can't finish the play, you can't pin that on Manu...

Terrible passers don't finish with just one turnover against the top defense in the league, tbh

LOL

[100%duncan]

5 pts 1 TO 4 Fouls from one of the big 3 in a pivotal Finals game

how can you defend this????

you are some drunk homers in here

This tbh. How the fuck can you defend that shit? One of the biggest Manu fans here and I gotta admit that was one, if not the worst, of the worst games of his entire life.

[TheGoldStandard]

Manu needs to score but he's not going to make the shots he's taking. That pull up 3 for no reason is a wasted possession, he drives and he kicks to splitter who's the weakest 5 I've seen in a long time. He needs to take smart jumpers, drive and use the rim to lay up the ball. Create contact by really creating contact, go hard.

[Homeland Security]

His passing was great. Probably the best passer on the team, if not close #2... if other Spurs can't finish the play, you can't pin that on Manu...

Terrible passers don't finish with just one turnover against the top defense in the league, tbh
:lmao

How can you see the computer screen to type out your posts with Manu's dick in your mouth?

[ElNono]

LOL Gary Neal is supposed to get to the rim more than Manu? REALLY? Gary Neal took Lebron to the hole TWICE. Gary fucking Neal!!!!! Manu took a step back 3.

That's because Neal isn't the PG. Miami traps the ballhandler. Watch the game, Manu and Tony get trapped every time on the pick and roll. Tony is just fast and can get away from it. Manu just isn't quick enough, but he does make the pass. Tiago had 3 dunks today on that passing alone.

Manu isn't going to be driving much at all this series if he keeps playing backup PG. That's why it's going to have to be his shot or bust.

[MannyIsGod]

Yeah, Tony can't get to the hole because he's a PG. PG's don't drive. Good point, El Nono.

[Brazil]

I missed where anybody is dragging Tony down in this thread, tbh... I'm rooting 100% for him to be healthy Sunday... I'm skeptical we have a shot regardless of how Manu plays if Tony isn't healthy...

Nobody is dragging down Parker in this thread but the use of as usual is funny considering that the goat scapegoat of ST is Parker. There is no way you can spin that one.
Manu had a horrible game, there is no ok game tonight, 0, he sucked. Parker game 2 sucked ass (i disliked a lot his flopping bs and lack of leadership). Manu game 4 sucked even more.
i don't remember such poor game in a decisive game from Manu ever and that's a compliment. Dude always delivered in decisive games, Parker sometimes shitted the bed.

its over and Manu didn't deliver tonight. I never been mad about 2006, ever, tonight I'm disappointed.

[slayermin]

Spurs don't win this series without him. He's one of favorite athletes of all-time. Manu gets one, TD gets one. Spurs can win this series.

[ElNono]

:lmao

How can you see the computer screen to type out your posts with Manu's dick in your mouth?

He's #2 in assist in this team, and that's only playing barely 20 mins... fact.

[DPG21920]

Please post his series averages, Nono. Then tell me if that is above average player stats.

[ElNono]

Yeah, Tony can't get to the hole because he's a PG. PG's don't drive. Good point, El Nono.

Why you keep ignoring what I type? I specifically said Tony is quick enough (he's probably the quickest PG in the league) to get away from the trap.

[MannyIsGod]

For you, the fact that Tiago got the ball underneath means that Manu made a good pass. It has never occured to you that pass is the exact one Miami wants Manu to make. Why? Because for them recovering to block Tiago is easy as fucking hell. So no, his passing was not great. He played right into the Heat gameplan. Why do you think EVERYONE on the heat team was blocking Tiago's supposed dunks? You think maybe because they were keying on it?

But sure. Great passes.

[MannyIsGod]

Why you keep ignoring what I type? I specifically said Tony is quick enough (he's probably the quickest PG in the league) to get away from the trap.

Because what you're saying is completely stupid. Every other Spurs guard who played (except maybe CJ) got to the hole at some point in time. Manu? Nope. Gary Neal is slow as fuck. Danny Green is slower than Manu as well. Yet they all made it to the bucket. The idea that Manu can't drive because he's starting the offense is one of the dumbest things I've ever read on this site.

[hater]

damn Nono is a damn good troll

trolling after a game 4 loss in the Finals :wow

that's some shit

still Manu sucks dick and needs to retire. that's fact. He will probably cost us this series :( He will hammer the last nail in Duncan's coffin :( :(

[ElNono]

Please post his series averages, Nono. Then tell me if that is above average player stats.

17+ PER... that's above average. It's about what he produces for the team.

[GSH]

...he was ok. He handed Splitter 3 dunks right under the rim, and Tiago wasted them all.

This game was decided by the Spurs' 20 turnovers (of which Manu only had one).

The only criticism, IMO, is that he's going to need to be much more aggressive if Tony is gonna be hobbled. He took only 4 shots (until garbage time) in 20 mins. That's not going to get it done if we have Tony hurt.

But I'm sure people want to vent, so go ahead an crucify him...


Here's the problem, Nono. When the Heat don't bite on Manu's pump fakes, he just doesn't have any way to get around them. He's making passes from out on the perimeter. They aren't turnovers, but they aren't creating open looks. Most of his turnovers are things that he's always done. I don't blame him for those any more than I have all through the years. For that matter, I don't blame him for the rest either. It's not that he isn't trying, or that he's being especially careless. It's just that this Miami team is quick. When they don't bite on that ball fake, he's just not getting around them.

A few times tonight, I saw guys bite, and Manu got by them. I'd have to watch the game again, to remember if those were the times he got those passes to Splitter. (And right now I don't see myself watching this one again.) But the one thing you have to admit is that Manu isn't doing the things Manu used to do. I'm not even worried about the missed 3's. He used to be able to pick up just about as many assists as Parker, on a regular basis. I know you don't get dimes if the shooters miss, but other than Tiago, he hasn't been able to get guys a lot of great looks. He's just not able to penetrate and suck in the defense.

Do you remember, all these years, when the Spurs were down to one last possession in a period, they would give the ball to Manu and he would dribble out beyond the 3-point line until about the 5-6 second mark? Then he would take off and create something? You know... you KNOW that he's not able to do that now. Not against this Heat team. And you know it because, if he were able to, he'd be doing it.

These comments are mostly bullshit. Nobody is more competitive than Manu. Nobody wants it more. And everybody misses shots, and has shooting slumps. But Manu has just not been able to do the things that have made him so deadly. You can't blame his effort, but you can't deny what you see on the court either.

[hater]

If we lose manu cost us this Finals. I'm glad Manu didn't get the 2005 Finals MVP IMO

:tu

[DPG21920]

17+ PER... that's above average. It's about what he produces for the team.

Post his stats.

[jag]

I can respect ElNono's grind. That nigga Nono got that kamikaze spirit.

For all of Manu's shortcomings, there's a reason Pop keeps going to him. It's because regardless of how he performs, you know he will give everything he has to win. He has that in him more than Tony and even more than Duncan. Pop will likely live or die with Manu. The alternative is to play him 5-10 mpg and split his minutes between Neal and Green. I really don't see a scenario where riding Manu till the end and hoping for a breakout game, isn't the best option.

[GSH]

Why you keep ignoring what I type? I specifically said Tony is quick enough (he's probably the quickest PG in the league) to get away from the trap.

BTW - Tony has been smart enough to pass early and avoid that trap a lot. I'm pretty sure that's what Tim and Pop were yelling at CoJo - get rid of the ball quicker. If you hunker down and let the trap settle in, you're in trouble. Even Tony. He may get out of it some, but he's still turned it over some too.

[ElNono]

For you, the fact that Tiago got the ball underneath means that Manu made a good pass. It has never occured to you that pass is the exact one Miami wants Manu to make. Why? Because for them recovering to block Tiago is easy as fucking hell. So no, his passing was not great. He played right into the Heat gameplan. Why do you think EVERYONE on the heat team was blocking Tiago's supposed dunks? You think maybe because they were keying on it?

But sure. Great passes.

:lmao are you reading what you type?

Of course it's a great pass and play. What better than having a 7 footer rolling to the rim against an undersized team you could possibly want? The Spurs will take that play every time over chucking a 3.

This is who the Spurs are. They played 100 games running pick and roll, and they're not going to start playing triangle now.

And if Miami is keying on Splitter under the rim, how's that Manu's fault? He's running the play Pop wants him to run and they've run 10000 times during the season.

[slick'81]

Yup gone is ginobili relentlessly driving to the rim .he's a glorified spot up shooting pg now

[hater]

Yup gone is ginobili relentlessly driving to the rim .he's a glorified spot up shooting pg now

and his shot is broken beyond repair

dude is shit

[ElNono]

BTW - Tony has been smart enough to pass early and avoid that trap a lot. I'm pretty sure that's what Tim and Pop were yelling at CoJo - get rid of the ball quicker. If you hunker down and let the trap settle in, you're in trouble. Even Tony. He may get out of it some, but he's still turned it over some too.

I'm actually thinking Manu might produce a bit better playing actual SG for a while. Maybe starting him wouldn't be such a bad idea.. Move Kawhi to the 4 and Green to the 3...

[hater]

Manu is done bro. starting him won't do a lick.

hopefully he will retire if we lose. hopefully he will retire if we win also :lol

[Biernutz]

Manu can't be 100%.....I have watched Manu before the playoffs started. I sit in the lower bowl on the spurs bench side and watched Manu move.
You don't see it on tv but I think he has a lower back problem. He walks around holding his back. He is stretching and doing lunges all the time. Tonight the way he was
sitting on the bench seat was a like reclining chair. He looks uncomfortable and he try's not to bend his back. I had a back problem a few years ago an he is doing the
same things I did to get some relief. BUT if he is out there playing--no excuses.........

I got my medical degree from the University of Holiday Inn Express.

[ElNono]

Here's the problem, Nono. When the Heat don't bite on Manu's pump fakes, he just doesn't have any way to get around them. He's making passes from out on the perimeter. They aren't turnovers, but they aren't creating open looks. Most of his turnovers are things that he's always done. I don't blame him for those any more than I have all through the years. For that matter, I don't blame him for the rest either. It's not that he isn't trying, or that he's being especially careless. It's just that this Miami team is quick. When they don't bite on that ball fake, he's just not getting around them.

A few times tonight, I saw guys bite, and Manu got by them. I'd have to watch the game again, to remember if those were the times he got those passes to Splitter. (And right now I don't see myself watching this one again.) But the one thing you have to admit is that Manu isn't doing the things Manu used to do. I'm not even worried about the missed 3's. He used to be able to pick up just about as many assists as Parker, on a regular basis. I know you don't get dimes if the shooters miss, but other than Tiago, he hasn't been able to get guys a lot of great looks. He's just not able to penetrate and suck in the defense.

Do you remember, all these years, when the Spurs were down to one last possession in a period, they would give the ball to Manu and he would dribble out beyond the 3-point line until about the 5-6 second mark? Then he would take off and create something? You know... you KNOW that he's not able to do that now. Not against this Heat team. And you know it because, if he were able to, he'd be doing it.

These comments are mostly bullshit. Nobody is more competitive than Manu. Nobody wants it more. And everybody misses shots, and has shooting slumps. But Manu has just not been able to do the things that have made him so deadly. You can't blame his effort, but you can't deny what you see on the court either.

I agree. And that's why I said people needed to regulate expectations a while back. Miami deserves credit too. As Manu has aged, his bread an butter has been the pick and roll. This team is perhaps the top pick and roll defensive team in the league.

Obviously, his shooting slump is worrisome too. I understand it's probably killing his head because he doesn't want to shoot and keep missing. But the only way he's gonna get out of it is shooting.

[Brazil]

Spurs don't win this series without him. He's one of favorite athletes of all-time. Manu gets one, TD gets one. Spurs can win this series.

No they can't. It's over dude

[Chinook]

I'm actually thinking Manu might produce a bit better playing actual SG for a while. Maybe starting him wouldn't be such a bad idea.. Move Kawhi to the 4 and Green to the 3...

Probably not a terrible idea. Save Neal for the subs. I'd rather Pop try Diaw first, though.

[ElNono]

Manu can't be 100%.....I have watched Manu before the playoffs started. I sit in the lower bowl on the spurs bench side and watched Manu move.
You don't see it on tv but I think he has a lower back problem. He walks around holding his back. He is stretching and doing lunges all the time. Tonight the way he was
sitting on the bench seat was a like reclining chair. He looks uncomfortable and he try's not to bend his back. I had a back problem a few years ago an he is doing the
same things I did to get some relief. BUT if he is out there playing--no excuses.........

I got my medical degree from the University of Holiday Inn Express.

I noticed in a couple of shots some weird posture... like kicking the leg a bit. Makes you wonder if there's something going on there.

[timvp]

Some thoughts on Manu:

-Regardless what happens this series, I want him back. The talk of wanting Ginobili to retire is crazy -- he's still damn good when he's going right.

-Let's not forget Manu is less than 100% right now. He has yet to recover his stop/start burst ... which has been missing since his second hamstring pull.

-The Heat are a really, really, really tough matchup for him on offense. At this point in his career, he can't split or beat a blitz. He just can't. So thus he has to resort to some sort of jump pass or crosscourt pass. Unfortunately, as this series progresses, the Heat are figuring out more and more what Manu wants to do. Tonight, though he only had one turnover, it seemed like every pass he made resulted in a Spur catching the ball with a Heat playing bearing down on him. And that's because the Heat have figured out what Manu wants to do. It's not leading directly to turnovers but the end results are basically the same. Manu is typically great at creating open shots -- tonight I can't remember him doing that at all more than once or twice.

-Even in his prime, Manu has always been a rhythm player. Getting in foul trouble knocked him out of his rhythm and he never recovered.

-For Manu to have an impact, I think it's going to take one-on-one penetrations. Pick-and-rolls aren't doing much for him right now. Drive. Drive. Drive some more. Earn trips to the line. Find open teammates if the defense starts collapsing. Don't resort to either low percentage pull-up three-pointers or pick-and-rolls -- neither one is working.

-It's a got damn miracle that the Spurs are 2-2 against the Heat in the Finals with Ginobili producing so little.

-I haven't given up hope on Ginobili. Wade had a great bounce back game tonight after it looked like he was dead in the water the first three games. Ginobili is the same type of competitor. It's his turn to turn back the clock. He just has to at this point. Without that X-factor on the court, the Spurs gimmicks on D and hot shooting on O have done just about all that could be done. Now it's time for the great players to step up. I still believe Ginobili can be great.

[baseline bum]

I can respect ElNono's grind. That nigga Nono got that kamikaze spirit.

For all of Manu's shortcomings, there's a reason Pop keeps going to him. It's because regardless of how he performs, you know he will give everything he has to win. He has that in him more than Tony and even more than Duncan. Pop will likely live or die with Manu. The alternative is to play him 5-10 mpg and split his minutes between Neal and Green. I really don't see a scenario where riding Manu till the end and hoping for a breakout game, isn't the best option.

As much as Manu is pissing this series away so far, I agree. Now I wanted him pulled from this game for sure because it was still winnable in the fourth when he was stinking it up. But man, I do not want to see him playing any more point this series.

[hater]

disagree. Manu didn't give the extra effort tonight. He was lame and defeated early. Very low confidence player now. He is shit and hurts the team

how anybody can see any different is beyond me. Dude is defeated and a loser at this point.

He's no better than a coked up old Maradona. a piece of trash

[ElNono]

I can respect ElNono's grind. That nigga Nono got that kamikaze spirit.

For all of Manu's shortcomings, there's a reason Pop keeps going to him. It's because regardless of how he performs, you know he will give everything he has to win. He has that in him more than Tony and even more than Duncan. Pop will likely live or die with Manu. The alternative is to play him 5-10 mpg and split his minutes between Neal and Green. I really don't see a scenario where riding Manu till the end and hoping for a breakout game, isn't the best option.

Exactly why I want him to shoot more. I know he's been struggling shooting, but the Spurs are not going to sit him on the back of the bench at this stage of the season, especially having to limit Tony minutes and no other ball handler.

Might aswell go out on a blaze of glory/shit.

[hater]

Manu already went out on a blaze. In game 4 of teh finlas. Dude is a bunch of ashes now.

time to move on to TMAC IMO

[T Park]

The level of overreaching in this thread borders on legendary.

[GSH]

I'm actually thinking Manu might produce a bit better playing actual SG for a while. Maybe starting him wouldn't be such a bad idea.. Move Kawhi to the 4 and Green to the 3...


See... but you're thinking about basketball, and not the blame game. I was thinking about the same thing before this game. If you could get Manu some good, open looks he might break the slump. And that would shake everything up.

And as bad as CoJo has been, I think you almost have to give Nando a shot. He's stronger, and less prone to getting his pocket picked. ANY shot attempt is better than these weak-assed turnovers. As good as the guys are shooting, some of them are going to go it.

[ElNono]

Because what you're saying is completely stupid. Every other Spurs guard who played (except maybe CJ) got to the hole at some point in time. Manu? Nope. Gary Neal is slow as fuck. Danny Green is slower than Manu as well. Yet they all made it to the bucket. The idea that Manu can't drive because he's starting the offense is one of the dumbest things I've ever read on this site.

You still ignoring the fact that Neal isn't the PG. He isn't the ball handler on a pick & roll. He's just sitting in his corner waiting for somebody to give him the ball. When he does get the ball, he either goes one on one or takes a shot.

The only time Neal had to actually run a pick and roll, he chucked a 3 from almost halfcourt (and made it). There's a reason Pop doesn't make Neal the backup PG. He can't handle the rock, and the first time Miami traps it's a turnover waiting to happen.

Corey can't get to the rim either, and today he succumbed to the trap a couple times too.

The Spurs really don't have many ballhandlers at all. Give Miami credit, they know how to trap hard.

[ElNono]

See... but you're thinking about basketball, and not the blame game. I was thinking about the same thing before this game. If you could get Manu some good, open looks he might break the slump. And that would shake everything up.

And as bad as CoJo has been, I think you almost have to give Nando a shot. He's stronger, and less prone to getting his pocket picked. ANY shot attempt is better than these weak-assed turnovers. As good as the guys are shooting, some of them are going to go it.

I'm thinking because of Miami starting Miller. Pop isn't going to start Tiago if Miller is out there. I don't think he was pleased with Diaw on Wade either.

[GSH]

disagree. Manu didn't give the extra effort tonight. He was lame and defeated early. Very low confidence player now. He is shit and hurts the team

how anybody can see any different is beyond me. Dude is defeated and a loser at this point.

He's no better than a coked up old Maradona. a piece of trash


Dude... you're way the fuck out of line with that. Tone it down some. It's hard when your team loses, and it will be harder if they don't win the series. But that shit is unnecessary. Manu would open a vein and bleed if it would help this team.

[TheGoldStandard]

Manu running point is very predictable and the Heat caught it in the film, when he goes left he comes back under the screen and looks to pass in High Low to the big, Splitter is usually in.. Splitter doesn't have any balls so he's easy to strip or block. More minutes for Diaw or we go small and have TMac playing at the 4 in this situation so we can get someone who can catch it, shoot or pass and not get poked away.

Manu needs to be greedy, he needs to shoot the ball at a high clip from smart spots on the floor. No more 3's that are defended, they are not falling, more jump shots and more driving.

[GSH]

I'm thinking because of Miami starting Miller. Pop isn't going to start Tiago if Miller is out there. I don't think he was pleased with Diaw on Wade either.


I was agreeing with you about starting Manu. The comment about Nando was about what to do when Tony isn't at the point. I think getting Manu in with the starters would be a good idea.

[ElNono]

-The Heat are a really, really, really tough matchup for him on offense. At this point in his career, he can't split or beat a blitz. He just can't. So thus he has to resort to some sort of jump pass or crosscourt pass. Unfortunately, as this series progresses, the Heat are figuring out more and more what Manu wants to do. Tonight, though he only had one turnover, it seemed like every pass he made resulted in a Spur catching the ball with a Heat playing bearing down on him. And that's because the Heat have figured out what Manu wants to do. It's not leading directly to turnovers but the end results are basically the same. Manu is typically great at creating open shots -- tonight I can't remember him doing that at all more than once or twice.

This is key, IMO, and since Tony getting hurt, it's something Pop is going to have to prioritize. Make sure he gets both Manu and Tim going somehow.

I think being the ball handler isn't going to work for the Spurs long term in this series. I thought Pop did the right thing by establishing Tim early in Game 3. We'll need more of that, and we'll need more of getting Manu some open looks.

[Brazil]

At the end of the day
1. It's a miracle to be 2-2 with this manu
2. We are not not going to win a game in Miami without manu

There is 0 alternative other than live or die with Manu and I'm fine with that. Manu is the ultimate competitor, play him put him in the best condition and hope for the best.

and if we failed spurs will still have had a hell of a season

[ElNono]

I was agreeing with you about starting Manu. The comment about Nando was about what to do when Tony isn't at the point. I think getting Manu in with the starters would be a good idea.

I was actually thinking T-Mac, believe it or not. Just to have safe guy to bring the ball up and start the offense, nothing else. He's washed up, but I thought his passing was still ok. He's a pro too, and a guy that has seen double/triple teams before.

[james evans]

i don't know what the original poster is talking about, manu and splitter were both azz last night. it's like ginobli is being paid to throw games and splitter hasn't realized yet he's 7 foot tall. every time we get a lead, popovich puts in the worst lineup possible and just like that a 10-0 run happens. it's been happening all fukin season.

[ElNono]

At the end of the day
1. It's a miracle to be 2-2 with this manu
2. We are not not going to win a game in Miami without manu

There is 0 alternative other than live or die with Manu and I'm fine with that. Manu is the ultimate competitor, play him put him in the best condition and hope for the best.

and if we failed spurs will still have had a hell of a season

I thought we could get away with it if Green kept on shooting like he is and Tony was healthy and played like he did in games 1 and 3... but with Tony hurt, I definitely agree.

That's why I said Manu will need to produce more personally. I thought the rest of his game was ok, but 4 shots isn't going to get it done.

[GSH]

Because what you're saying is completely stupid. Every other Spurs guard who played (except maybe CJ) got to the hole at some point in time. Manu? Nope. Gary Neal is slow as fuck. Danny Green is slower than Manu as well. Yet they all made it to the bucket. The idea that Manu can't drive because he's starting the offense is one of the dumbest things I've ever read on this site.


You still ignoring the fact that Neal isn't the PG. He isn't the ball handler on a pick & roll. He's just sitting in his corner waiting for somebody to give him the ball. When he does get the ball, he either goes one on one or takes a shot.

The only time Neal had to actually run a pick and roll, he chucked a 3 from almost halfcourt (and made it). There's a reason Pop doesn't make Neal the backup PG. He can't handle the rock, and the first time Miami traps it's a turnover waiting to happen.

Corey can't get to the rim either, and today he succumbed to the trap a couple times too.

The Spurs really don't have many ballhandlers at all. Give Miami credit, they know how to trap hard.


I don't always agree with Nono, but he knows the fucking game. Some of you should consider that. Even when he isn't 100% right, he's never 100% wrong.

No... Neal is not the backup PG when Manu is on the floor. For all purposes, George Hill wasn't the backup PG when he was on the floor with Manu. I don't care how tall the players are, or how they are listed on the roster, Manu is the one running the offense. That play where Neal chucked the long 3 made a lot of people cheer - it made me cringe.

[jag]

LOL @ thread title. Manu scapegoat as usual. Poor Manu. :( :( :( :(

No Spur has been shown as much love as Manu over the past 10 years. Not Tim. Not Tony. But now all of a sudden he's the usual scapegoat and we should all be happy he shot 0% for most of the game and only had 1 TO.

Basically sums up my feelings on the matter.

[james evans]

Nah, this loss is 100% on Manu. What the stat sheet doesn't tell you is that the quality of Manu's 3 point attempts were so bad that they were effectively turnovers.

Let us also not forget that he can no longer execute simple basketball skills, such as dribbling, passing, etc.
he can't even do a simple pass to a teammate 3 feet away from him. he just has to be flashy and it's mostly turnovers. he needs to be benched. we got rid of jackson for what? for what?

[Kidd K]

Ginobili was awful. I'm all for saying, "hey look what guys did besides score", and "hey, look what guys did that didn't reflect in the stats". . .but not only did Manu not do much that reflected in his stats, most of what he did that didn't reflect in his stats was bad.

This is the first time I have literally wished Pop would yank him off the court and bench him for the rest of the game. I realize Pop had no choice but to rely on Manu more because Tony was playing hurt, but the guy was absolutely trash tonight.

Yes, the refs were really shitty in the first half, but the officiating wasn't nearly as bad in the 2nd half. Manu took over and shat the bed for them instead. Splitter and Diaw both played soft, Duncan made some bad plays, and Tony couldn't play well enough with the hamstring in the 2nd half. . .but Ginobili was bad throughout the game and steadily got worse.

I have no faith in Ginobili anymore. He's regressed in to "anything he gives us is a bonus" territory, like catchers in baseball.

[ElNono]

I don't always agree with Nono, but he knows the fucking game. Some of you should consider that. Even when he isn't 100% right, he's never 100% wrong.

No... Neal is not the backup PG when Manu is on the floor. For all purposes, George Hill wasn't the backup PG when he was on the floor with Manu. I don't care how tall the players are, or how they are listed on the roster, Manu is the one running the offense. That play where Neal chucked the long 3 made a lot of people cheer - it made me cringe.

:lol this was my reaction to that shot:


wow terrible shot :lol

[DMC]

Bosh and James had 24 combined rebounds. That's more than the entire Spurs starting 5.

So you add these:

20 turnovers
no rebounding
Poor shooting
Poor FT shooting
Other team hitting everything

And you're still within 5 in the middle of the 4th.

We fix one of those we win.

[jag]

i don't know what the original poster is talking about, manu and splitter were both azz last night. it's like ginobli is being paid to throw games and splitter hasn't realized yet he's 7 foot tall. every time we get a lead, popovich puts in the worst lineup possible and just like that a 10-0 run happens. it's been happening all fukin season.

Are you really trying to put this off on Popovich, you fucking retard?

[SpurSpurSpurs]

But the Heat is blitzing him on every pick and roll... he's passing to Tiago right under the rim, and he gets his shit blocked... that's not on Manu.
Exactly my thought! Good defensive adjustment by Miami. This is going to be hell for Manu and TP moving forward.




I do think if he's going to get out of that shooting slump, he's going to have to shoot more. 4 shots is not enough.
4 shots is not enough, yes. Also, forcing shots is a big no no too. They need to get an open shot and hit it because the paint is narrowing its path to the hole.

[baseline bum]

LOL @ thread title. Manu scapegoat as usual. Poor Manu. :( :( :( :(

No Spur has been shown as much love as Manu over the past 10 years. Not Tim. Not Tony. But now all of a sudden he's the usual scapegoat and we should all be happy he shot 0% for most of the game and only had 1 TO.

Manny with the Tyson jab into uppercut combination. :tu

[GSH]

I was actually thinking T-Mac, believe it or not. Just to have safe guy to bring the ball up and start the offense, nothing else. He's washed up, but I thought his passing was still ok. He's a pro too, and a guy that has seen double/triple teams before.


I mentioned that over in TimVP's thread. I'd rather see ANY shot attempt, instead of these weak-assed turnovers. CoJo just isn't physically strong enough (Yet. He's still just a pup.) If T-Mac could just advance the ball and avoid that trap, we've got guys who are shooting lights out. A few of them are going to go in, even if they aren't wide open and flat-footed. Anything is better than coughing it up and giving Miami easy points in transition.

I haven't gotten a real easy feeling, watching him in garbage time. Do you think he could stand not jacking up shots? Because all they really need is someone to withstand the ball pressure, and hold down the fort while Tony is getting a blow.

I'd welcome seeing Manu in with the starters, and T-Mac handling the ball with the second unit. It's pretty obvious that this lineup isn't going anywhere but fishing. And I agree, T-Mac is probably the one guy who is strong enough, and experienced enough to give the second team a shot.

[UZER]

Manu Ginobili 1-5 FG | 3-4 FT | 2 REB | 2 AST | 5 PTS
While Wade has received a ton of criticism this playoffs, Ginobili has been fading out of the picture for weeks now with little rubbernecking. He was held to single-digit points for the seventh time in his last nine games. Three quick fouls in the first half took Ginobili out of the game and he never could bounce back. For someone who loves Ginobili's game, this is tough to watch.

...from Espn

[baseline bum]

:lol this was my reaction to that shot:

:cry How come you didn't post my reaction son? :cry


Neal with the Retard Manu shot and it drops. :rollin

[ElNono]

4 shots is not enough, yes. Also, forcing shots is a big no no too. They need to get an open shot and hit it because the paint is narrowing its path to the hole.

He won't get an open shot playing PG and running the pick and roll with one big and 3 other shooters. The problem the Spurs face is that there's nobody else to run PG. So you either play Manu with Tony, or we're going to have to stick with this.

[ElNono]

:cry How come you didn't post my reaction son? :cry

lol I missed it in the thread

[jag]

Bosh and James had 24 combined rebounds. That's more than the entire Spurs starting 5.

So you add these:

20 turnovers
no rebounding
Poor shooting
Poor FT shooting
Other team hitting everything

And you're still within 5 in the middle of the 4th.

We fix one of those we win.

DMC with the grandfather took me to the back room to calm down, offered me 15 minutes of his wisdom, patted me on the back and sent me on my way a wiser man goods

[baseline bum]

lol I missed it in the thread

Dude, it was teh very next post after yours :lol

[ElNono]

Well, with Miami winning this game, he's definitely getting some criticism now. Barkley couldn't stop talking about Manu needing to play better in the postgame.

[Brazil]

I thought we could get away with it if Green kept on shooting like he is and Tony was healthy and played like he did in games 1 and 3... but with Tony hurt, I definitely agree.

That's why I said Manu will need to produce more personally. I thought the rest of his game was ok, but 4 shots isn't going to get it done.

This is where I disagree, tp hurt or not. Green shooting is totally off the chart, there is no way he keeps that during a 7 game serie. We need to win at least one game in Miami, this kind of games are not for green or Neal or diaw, these are the games we need the big 3 to carry the team. Once again I don't expect miracle, I think we will loose this serie but if we have a shot it will be thanks to two or three vintage perf by the big 3 and I'm fine with that.

Spurs 2012 / 2013 are already a success with a fifth lob or not.

[ElNono]

Dude, it was teh very next post after yours :lol

:lol I'm trying to watch the game. When I hit reload, there's 20 new posts... some will be missed, tbh

[LakerLanny]

Ginobili has fallen in love with the 3. He needs to look to drive the ball and he needs to play with a lot more scrap and urgency than he has shown so far.

If I am Popovich, I get him some isolations early in Game 5 and tell him to look to drive and finish or drive and kick. No more 3's, let Green, Neal and bad ass Kawhi Leonard (SDSU superstar) take those.

[Fabbs]

...he was ok. He handed Splitter 3 dunks right under the rim, and Tiago wasted them all.
Hacked the f out of Splitters elbow. Not sure if .gif or photo has been put up yet. BSPN made damn sure to change the subject.
The second one looked 50/50. Third one i agree Splitter was Bonbon soft. He needs to get angry.

[baseline bum]

:lol I'm trying to watch the game. When I hit reload, there's 20 new posts... some will be missed, tbh

You're watching the game at 1:50 EST? Why the hell are you watching a replay of that fucked up performance lol?

[ElNono]

This is where I disagree, tp hurt or not. Green shooting is totally off the chart, there is no way he keeps that during a 7 game serie. We need to win at least one game in Miami, this kind of games are not for green or Neal or diaw, these are the games we need the big 3 to carry the team. Once again I don't expect miracle, I think we will loose this serie but if we have a shot it will be thanks to two or three vintage perf by the big 3 and I'm fine with that.

Spurs 2012 / 2013 are already a success with a fifth lob or not.

I agree about already surpassing expectations.

With a healthy TP we did win in Miami, and Manu was good, but not great. Obviously, TP being hurt is a reality, so we're going to need a couple of great games from Manu and Tim.

The real issue here is that Manu's role will likely have to change in order to make that a reality. And I don't mean role as 'he just gotta want it more'. I mean the Spurs will have to put him in a position that the current backup PG role doesn't give him: open looks, the possibility to drive, etc. The big conundrum is how to do that without another actual solid backup PG.

[LakerLanny]

Hacked the f out of Splitters elbow. Not sure if .gif or photo has been put up yet. BSPN made damn sure to change the subject.
The second one looked 50/50. Third one i agree Splitter was Bonbon soft. He needs to get angry.

That one was a total hack by Wade, ridiculous no call. I knew the Spurs were in trouble when I saw the crew was Scott Fixster, Irish Mike Callahan and the hopelessly inept Bill Kennedy.

[ElNono]

You're watching the game at 1:50 EST? Why the hell are you watching a replay of that fucked up performance lol?

dude, I made that post in the game thread while the game was going on... you been drinking? :lol

[SpurSpurSpurs]

He won't get an open shot playing PG and running the pick and roll with one big and 3 other shooters. The problem the Spurs face is that there's nobody else to run PG. So you either play Manu with Tony, or we're going to have to stick with this.

Agree. As of now, just like what I mentioned in other threads, Joseph is just a filler in this series.

Question though, playing Manu means less time for Green. The way Manu is playing now, will you still risk it? No doubts of Manu being super Manu, but Green has been consistently better than him in this series.

[timvp]

Obviously, TP being hurt is a reality

Wait, you mean it wasn't a ruse to troll the Heat :wow














:rolleyes @ Spurs fans

[ElNono]

Agree. As of now, just like what I mentioned in other threads, Joseph is just a filler in this series.

Question though, playing Manu means less time for Green. The way Manu is playing now, will you still risk it? No doubts of Manu being super Manu, but Green has been consistently better than him in this series.

Miami is starting Miller instead of Haslem. Pop today brought in Neal like 20 secs after the game started for Splitter.

Instead of Neal, Manu could play smallball with the starters. The big question mark is who plays PG with the second unit?

We've talked all season about who gets the backup PG spot. Miami is certainly exposing that now.

[baseline bum]

dude, I made that post in the game thread while the game was going on... you been drinking? :lol

But you went back there to find your post lol. And I really could use a drink after this game tbh... stopped by the liquor store today to get a Father's Day gift and should have picked up a bottle of Herradura for the postgame I guess. :lol

[GSH]

Damn... the more I think about it. With Manu playing a legit 2, he'd be getting the ball with some space. They'd have to respect the shot enough that they WOULD bite on his ball fakes. Once he gets inside the perimeter defense, he will still get guys some easy ones. And if he got a few open looks from the arc, he might just start knocking some down.

IF T-Mac could run the point enough to beat that trap and not cough it up, I can still see a way out of this series.






Wait, you mean it wasn't a ruse to troll the Heat :wow

Heh

[ElNono]

Wait, you mean it wasn't a ruse to troll the Heat :wow

:lol I was just responding to "whether tp is hurt or not"... well, he damn sure is. there's no more hypothetical there.

[DMC]

Miami is starting Miller instead of Haslem. Pop today brought in Neal like 20 secs after the game started for Splitter.

Instead of Neal, Manu could play smallball with the starters. The big question mark is who plays PG with the second unit?

We've talked all season about who gets the backup PG spot. Miami is certainly exposing that now.

They are exposing it because we are allowing it. Several times I saw Cojo bringing the ball up under pressure without and backcourt help from his team. That cannot happen. He needs options. They are going to pressure him and we have to make them pay for doing so.

[ElNono]

But you went back there to find your post lol. And I really could use a drink after this game tbh... stopped by the liquor store today to get a Father's Day gift and should have picked up a bottle of Herradura for the postgame I guess. :lol

oh yeah, no, I just missed it again... :lol

I'm obviously disappointed in this loss, but we had too many errors. I'm mad we played like we did, but the fact is we're not going to win a lot of games turning the ball over like that.

[baseline bum]

Wait, you mean it wasn't a ruse to troll the Heat :wow














:rolleyes @ Spurs fans

Do you think the Spurs have any choice other than to play Parker 40 minutes a night until someone is holding a trophy? I don't.

[timvp]

Do you think the Spurs have any choice other than to play Parker 40 minutes a night until someone is holding a trophy? I don't.

No, Pop has to play Parker 40 minutes in Game 5. If his hamstring explodes, it explodes.

And Manu needs to get his 30-32 minutes, with Duncan going 38-40.

[ElNono]

They are exposing it because we are allowing it. Several times I saw Cojo bringing the ball up under pressure without and backcourt help from his team. That cannot happen. He needs options. They are going to pressure him and we have to make them pay for doing so.

It's because the Spurs are not used to the trapping. We're used to the big spacing, so everybody walk to their spot, and don't think they need to be an outlet. It's hard to change when you played the same way for 100 games.

And I thought Miami was extra aggressive on CoJo today. Frankly, it's a tough stage for a rookie. Same with DeColo... that's why I'm more inclined with perhaps T-Mac getting a cameo there if we want to go with the Spurs starting Manu route.

[baseline bum]

No, Pop has to play Parker 40 minutes in Game 5. If his hamstring explodes, it explodes.

And Manu needs to get his 30-32 minutes, with Duncan going 38-40.

I have to venture that's what Tony's thinking too. To be this close to a title, knowing it will never happen again unless he's traded. And that he'll likely never play on a team this good again. I mean this 2013 Spurs team is pretty fucking amazing. God I wish they didn't have to match up with a 66 win Heat team that is one of the all-time greats I have ever seen.

[Sean Cagney]

win or lose, i will always be on manu's bandwagon. fuck y'all haterz!!!!

LOL haterz! How about he step up and play worth a shit and nobody will hate? Sometimes the truth is truth! He has sucked all finals and most of the playoffs, FACT! WE all love old MANU BLAH BLAh blah! I love old Manu too! NOW HE IS JUST garbage.......... He sucks now, period.

[GSH]

Miami is starting Miller instead of Haslem. Pop today brought in Neal like 20 secs after the game started for Splitter.

Instead of Neal, Manu could play smallball with the starters. The big question mark is who plays PG with the second unit?

We've talked all season about who gets the backup PG spot. Miami is certainly exposing that now.


The question is - what do you want out of a backup PG? I mean, obviously you want minimal dropoff, but that's not going to happen. What I'm getting at is, they are obviously counting on running down our backup ball handlers and making them cough it up. So someone who could just hold onto the ball would be a big improvement.

I would NEVER suggest putting in T-Mac expecting his old offensive abilities. But he's a good ball handler. And he's big, and strong, and experienced. He shouldn't be a rabbit in the headlights, the way CoJo is. Just getting up some shot attempts - any shot attempts, would be a big plus. Like I said, they way guys are shooting, a few of them will go in. But bigger than that, we would run out more of the clocks, which gives Tony more time on the bench. And the Heat wouldn't be able to run as effectively off of missed shots as off of turnovers, which means they won't be shooting 100% for those stretches of the game. If we're just looking to hold down the fort until Tony gets back, I think McGrady might be up to it.

[SpurSpurSpurs]

Miami is starting Miller instead of Haslem. Pop today brought in Neal like 20 secs after the game started for Splitter.

Instead of Neal, Manu could play smallball with the starters. The big question mark is who plays PG with the second unit?

We've talked all season about who gets the backup PG spot. Miami is certainly exposing that now.

I'd rather have Diaw in place of Splitter. Which is good than having Manu play right away. Taking away the PG and play maker of the 2nd unit is not a good thing to do. Diaw can defend either James or Wade.

Splitter should only get PT when one of Miami's big 3 is sitting. Manu and Splitter has that PnR chemistry that should work.

TP TD DG KL BDiaw as starters, again, maybe?
MG, Neal, Splitter and a BIT of Bonner as subs. KL, DG and TP (if hamstring not bothering him) should still get big minutes.

[Fabbs]

No, Pop has to play Parker 40 minutes in Game 5. If his hamstring explodes, it explodes.

And Manu needs to get his 30-32 minutes, with Duncan going 38-40.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v418/bawanaal/grampa05.gif
By jibbers the Big 3 should still be playing 40 min a game in the year 2032. It's the only way we'll win.

[ElNono]

I mentioned that over in TimVP's thread. I'd rather see ANY shot attempt, instead of these weak-assed turnovers. CoJo just isn't physically strong enough (Yet. He's still just a pup.) If T-Mac could just advance the ball and avoid that trap, we've got guys who are shooting lights out. A few of them are going to go in, even if they aren't wide open and flat-footed. Anything is better than coughing it up and giving Miami easy points in transition.

I haven't gotten a real easy feeling, watching him in garbage time. Do you think he could stand not jacking up shots? Because all they really need is someone to withstand the ball pressure, and hold down the fort while Tony is getting a blow.

I'd welcome seeing Manu in with the starters, and T-Mac handling the ball with the second unit. It's pretty obvious that this lineup isn't going anywhere but fishing. And I agree, T-Mac is probably the one guy who is strong enough, and experienced enough to give the second team a shot.

He has been reluctant to shoot in general, and this is in garbage time we're talking about. He's been actually looking to pass more. He actually had some great passes to DeJuan... if he doesn't overplay his hand, he might also be a guy that Miami could doubt about leaving alone or giving him his shot. You don't get that with Corey or DeColo...

[ElNono]

I'd rather have Diaw in place of Splitter. Which is good than having Manu play right away. Taking away the PG and play maker of the 2nd unit is not a good thing to do. Diaw can defend either James or Wade.

Splitter should only get PT when one of Miami's big 3 is sitting. Manu and Splitter has that PnR chemistry that should work.

TP TD DG KL BDiaw as starters, again, maybe?
MG, Neal, Splitter and a BIT of Bonner as subs. KL, DG and TP (if hamstring not bothering him) should still get big minutes.

This just isn't working though. Because Manu becomes just a facilitator to Splitter and the shooters, and with him running point and getting trapped, he won't be able to drive or get an open look.

Manu would need to play off the ball (ie: with Tony). I'm also not sold Pop liked Diaw on Wade, seeing how Wade did today.

[dallasmaverickslose]

No, Pop has to play Parker 40 minutes in Game 5. If his hamstring explodes, it explodes.

And Manu needs to get his 30-32 minutes, with Duncan going 38-40.

But does Manu still have the potential to breakout? I hope he does, but with all due respect timvp, you have a better sense of what the players on this team are still capable of doing. Is Manu still capable of breaking out for us?

[baseline bum]

You know, I figured Сталин would win us game 4 :cry

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OBSd-d1xewg&t=1m46s

[ElNono]

You know, I figured Сталин would win us game 4 :cry

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OBSd-d1xewg&t=1m46s

Brazil needs to bring back that troll, tbh... gold IMO

[Kuestmaster]

If making a dissappearing act it's being ok... Ok then. But that's not what we expect from him and that's not what he's paid for. He HAS to show up. If he really can't, then retire.

[SpurSpurSpurs]

This just isn't working though. Because Manu becomes just a facilitator to Splitter and the shooters, and with him running point and getting trapped, he won't be able to drive or get an open look.

Manu would need to play off the ball (ie: with Tony). I'm also not sold Pop liked Diaw on Wade, seeing how Wade did today.

It's hard. To think we have 4 point guards in our team only to get exposed at this time of the year.

I liked Diaw's defense, but not as happy as game 3's defense on Wade. For now, I'd go for that starter. Sub Ginobili with about 6-5 mins of the first qtr so he can play with Tony. Start him in the 2nd qtr with Kawhi for defensive purposes, bring Neal and Splitter. Oh God, Pop has the shittiest job in the world right now.

[baseline bum]

Brazil needs to bring back that troll, tbh... gold IMO

Was that username a response to jaffies Hitler video? :lol

K6WaImbjvTE

:cry I tried to befriend мой негр, but I think he's banned. :cry

[BatManu20]

http://i40.tinypic.com/2ljm3op.png

[BatManu20]

:cry

[ElNono]

Was that username a response to jaffies Hitler video? :lol

I have no idea.


:cry I tried to befriend мой негр, but I think he's banned. :cry

I have it as a friend, and it shows last activity one week ago. But I don't think he posted. I think he's around, just changed the text under his name to 'banned'...

Just befriend Brazil though, same thing, I saaaaaid....

[Emeyin]

F that. I'm sticking with Manu. It ain't pretty at all right now. But f that. That's my boy right there. Game 5.


Ditto. Sticking with him until this series is over. Still hoping he will come through one last time.

[jARS mEsH sEt]

You know what pisses me off the most about Manu? The fact that he's shooting free throws atrociously. I can almost live with the rest of his bull shit and chalk it up to an "ok game" because Manu's standards for a "good" game have dropped tremendously. He no longer deserves the prestige of being called one of the "Big 3." He's only one of the "big 3" by reputation now. It's no longer an indication of how potent his game is.

But his free throw shooting drives me insane. I think I actually saw him hit 2 free throws in a row for the first time in months. He's been going 1-2 most of the time before that, and I believe he's shooting in the 60s.

[Sean Cagney]

Ditto. Sticking with him until this series is over. Still hoping he will come through one last time.

DO NOT HOPE! Just pray it does! BUT DO NOT count on it! NOT AT ALL! If he has a few more bad games I will not be surprised! But I will hope or pray he has a game winner or a huge shot! Thats all I can ask for now! Just a big play! PERIOD!

[timvp]

I thought Manu's postgame interview was kinda weak, tbh.

"Welp, my job is to pass the ball. I'm not supposed to score; that's not my role anymore. I need to feed everyone else."

Need you to be a little bit more than Diaw Jr, tbh.

[SpurSpurSpurs]

I thought Manu's postgame interview was kinda weak, tbh.

"Welp, my job is to pass the ball. I'm not supposed to score; that's not my role anymore. I need to feed everyone else."

Need you to be a little bit more than Diaw Jr, tbh.

Not just "kinda". Sure is weak, tbh.

[BatManu20]

I thought Manu's postgame interview was kinda weak, tbh.

"Welp, my job is to pass the ball. I'm not supposed to score; that's not my role anymore. I need to feed everyone else."

Need you to be a little bit more than Diaw Jr, tbh.

He said that? Sounds like Manu's mentally checked out tbh.


http://i40.tinypic.com/2ljm3op.png

[Sean Cagney]

His passing was great. Probably the best passer on the team, if not close #2... if other Spurs can't finish the play, you can't pin that on Manu...

Terrible passers don't finish with just one turnover against the top defense in the league, tbhIf he is our second best passer with this wreckless passes then we are fucked. PERIOD.

[ElNono]

I thought Manu's postgame interview was kinda weak, tbh.

"Welp, my job is to pass the ball. I'm not supposed to score; that's not my role anymore. I need to feed everyone else."

Need you to be a little bit more than Diaw Jr, tbh.

That's the role Pop wants from him now though, LJ... otherwise, he would play him as SG, at least for stretches.

And I suspect Pop doesn't even think it's the ideal solution, but it's just the byproduct of DeColo and Joseph not really stepping up to grab that backup PG role in the regular season.

[jestersmash]

I thought Manu's postgame interview was kinda weak, tbh.

"Welp, my job is to pass the ball. I'm not supposed to score; that's not my role anymore. I need to feed everyone else."

Need you to be a little bit more than Diaw Jr, tbh.

I agree, it is very weak. The funny thing is Coach Pop was asked about Manu's "changing" role a game or 2 ago and Pop answered with a befuddled look "Manu's role hasn't changed at all this year." It seems like Manu's the only one who thinks his "role" is to be a non-threat on offense and constantly pass the ball to well guarded teammates. No such role exists. If you're not a threat on offense, then your passes will be useless.

[Yuixafun]

yea he might of only had 1 turnover

but i saw a few plays where he passed the ball to someone that put them in a terrible position

and led to a turnover

They should keep track of Passes that Lead to Turnovers

[hommeaetage]

The spurs really miss a backup PG right now. A solid backup PG would have allowed Manu to play his natural position, and maybe that could have helped him in the scoring department. Oh well...

[ElNono]

If he is our second best passer with this wreckless passes then we are fucked. PERIOD.

Good enough to be the second best assist man on a team that's 2-2 in the NBA Finals. Might not be enough to beat the champs, but that's still damn good.

[jestersmash]

ElNono was trying to put some of the blame on Tiago for not making shots off the pick and roll with Manu, but in reality this - to some degree - is Manu's fault for being such a non-threat on offense, which in turn is a function of him being so passive throughout the season. He's so passive and he's so scared to shoot the ball (and he's so inefficient when he does shoot the ball) that it's all too easy to sag off him and keep the roll man well covered.

You can't be a pick and roll facilitator if you're not an offensive threat. Period.

[jestersmash]

Manu should have demanded a couple of 20 FGA games long ago in the regular season to shoot himself out of his slump. As one of the big 3, he certainly had the green light to do that, but he didn't. Now it's too late to give Manu 20 FGA knowing that he's in such a poor shooting slump. We can't afford it.

[ElNono]

ElNono was trying to put some of the blame on Tiago for not making shots off the pick and roll with Manu, but in reality this - to some degree - is Manu's fault for being such a non-threat on offense, which in turn is a function of him being so passive throughout the season. He's so passive and he's so scared to shoot the ball (and he's so inefficient when he does shoot the ball) that it's all too easy to sag off him and keep the roll man well covered.

You can't be a pick and roll facilitator if you're not an offensive threat. Period.

But this isn't true either. Tiago wasn't blocked by the guy guarding him, who recovered. That guy was still trapping Manu.

He was blocked by help coming from the weakside. What Miami knows is that once the pass is made, Tiago won't handle the pressure. A guy like Tim will see the help and pass to the open shooter or finish at the basket. Tiago just isn't anywhere near as mentally sharp.

Manu won't be a treat with two guys trapping him. I mean, he could start chucking contested 3s (and he had one today), but that's not the solution to be an 'offensive treat'.

[ElNono]

Manu should have demanded a couple of 20 FGA games long ago in the regular season to shoot himself out of his slump. As one of the big 3, he certainly had the green light to do that, but he didn't. Now it's too late to give Manu 20 FGA knowing that he's in such a poor shooting slump. We can't afford it.

We're here now. If Tony can't heal quick enough, Pop will have to find a way to get him open looks or a line to the basket, and Manu will have to take them. If he makes them good, if not, so be it.

The Spurs had 82 games to find a relatively solid backup PG that would free Manu to play SG. They didn't find him. We're here now, and gonna have to make lemonade.

[spurraider21]

I've always been a CoM > CoP guy (although I've easily recognized Parker being the go-to for the past 2 seasons), but all I can say is we are going to need the "big 3" version of Manu to start showing up, especially if Wade is picking up his game. we got away with passive manu when wade was playing like garbage. but we are going to need 2012 WCF manu to show up.

[Sean Cagney]

Good enough to be the second best assist man on a team that's 2-2 in the NBA Finals. Might not be enough to beat the champs, but that's still damn good.

Oh yeah he has played great out there!!!!!!!!!!!!! Get off the drugs you are on NONO Manu has been horrible these finals, stop it! You biased Argie you. :blah:nope. He has played like utter shit numbers wise, get real! He is not there anymore.

I can not believe you are trying to say this guy is playing well right now! Are you serious? Are you serious?
yea he might of only had 1 turnover

but i saw a few plays where he passed the ball to someone that put them in a terrible position

and led to a turnover

They should keep track of Passes that Lead to Turnovers

Exactly! AND PERIOD!!!!!! You are correct, not a TO in the stats but basically one.

[hommeaetage]

What frustrate me about Manu is he seems to forget that there are other ways to score when your 3 pt shot is not falling. I can live with a wide open miss, but he's taking some bad shots with defenders draped all over him which result in long rebound/fast break for the Heat. Those are essentially turnovers, even if they don't show up in the stats sheet

[Sean Cagney]

What frustrate me about Manu is he seems to forget that there are other ways to score when your 3 pt shot is not falling. I can live with a wide open miss, but he's taking some bad shots with defenders draped all over him which result in long rebound/fast break for the Heat. Those are essentially turnovers, even if they don't show up in the stats sheet
Exactly, and he keeps this up! OVER AND OVER! This is like a TO, period.

[ElNono]

This isn't even a CoM vs CoP argument. I want Tony to heal and play great because I want the Spurs to win. I'd love Manu to put together a couple of 15-20 point games.

The problem for the Spurs is that in Manu's current role, he isn't young enough to bolt those traps like Tony does. So if Pop wants Manu to go more one-on-one to the rack, he's going to have to play him as a SG somehow.

[ElNono]

Oh yeah he has played great out there!!!!!!!!!!!!! Get off the drugs you are on NONO Manu has been horrible these finals, stop it! You biased Argie you. :blah:nope. He has played like utter shit numbers wise, get real! He is not there anymore.

I can not believe you are trying to say this guy is playing well right now! Are you serious? Are you serious?

He played ok tonight. 'numbers wise' tells me nothing. He's the only guy outside of Tony that can bring the ball up and start the offense. He sets the table so guys like Green and Neal and Tiago can shine out there. That's his role now. It isn't to gobble up numbers. And that's Gino in a nutshell, he always been about helping the team win, not his personal stats.

He will have to carry a bigger load if Tony is still hobbled though. That's just the reality of the situation from here on out.

[Sean Cagney]

This isn't even a CoM vs CoP argument. I want Tony to heal and play great because I want the Spurs to win. I'd love Manu to put together a couple of 15-20 point games.

The problem for the Spurs is that in Manu's current role, he isn't young enough to bolt those traps like Tony does. So if Pop wants Manu to go more one-on-one to the rack, he's going to have to play him as a SG somehow.
Well EMAIL him to do that then! Because I am sure he will not do that!

[Sean Cagney]

He played ok tonight. 'numbers wise' tells me nothing. He's the only guy outside of Tony that can bring the ball up and start the offense. He sets the table so guys like Green and Neal and Tiago can shine out there. That's his role now. It isn't to gobble up numbers. And that's Gino in a nutshell, he always been about helping the team win, not his personal stats.

He will have to carry a bigger load if Tony is still hobbled though. That's just the reality of the situation from here on out.
He was shit tonight, get real! He sucked. I saw a sequence at work before heading home that had me shake my head! I was like this is Manu again, a miss three and a TO on a dumb pass and then another after that.
Manu has been horrible sir, get real!!!!!! SERIOUSLY! If he can get 15-20 or so we win the next two, if not forget it we are done. Manu is a key to this team still, he has to step it up ALOT! IF NOT forget it.

DO I TRUST HIM NOW from here on OUT with a bigger role? NO! Why should I? If he shows me wrong I will rejoice! But as of now no faith in MANU at all! NONE! He looks done to me.

[InK]

Its not encouraging to see Manu playing ok and the rest of the team damn near spectacular and Spurs still loosing.

I can only hope that Manu continues with his ok play, his ok play is the only constant in this finals. :lol

[SpurOutofTownFan]

I thought Manu's postgame interview was kinda weak, tbh.

"Welp, my job is to pass the ball. I'm not supposed to score; that's not my role anymore. I need to feed everyone else."

Need you to be a little bit more than Diaw Jr, tbh.

This isn't fair. He's obviously asked to pass the ball and score very little.

[jestersmash]

This isn't fair. He's obviously asked to pass the ball and score very little.

Asked by who?

[SpurOutofTownFan]

He was shit tonight, get real! He sucked. I saw a sequence at work before heading home that had me shake my head! I was like this is Manu again, a miss three and a TO on a dumb pass and then another after that.
Manu has been horrible sir, get real!!!!!! SERIOUSLY! If he can get 15-20 or so we win the next two, if not forget it we are done. Manu is a key to this team still, he has to step it up ALOT! IF NOT forget it.

DO I TRUST HIM NOW from here on OUT with a bigger role? NO! Why should I? If he shows me wrong I will rejoice! But as of now no faith in MANU at all! NONE! He looks done to me.

Wrong again. Manu isn't getting 10 shots a game in the new Spurs world

[ElNono]

If he can get 15-20 or so

This is where your expectations betray you. That's not his role anymore. Unless Pop plays him in a different role, that's not going to happen. There isn't much Manu can do about that either. It's going to be on Pop to put him on a situation to do that.

I'm not going to go over 'why' again, since it's been extensively discussed in this thread, but feel free to read the thread, and you'll see why.

[timvp]

Both Pop and Duncan said Manu needs to do more. Manu said he's doing what he's supposed to do.

There's a disconnect somewhere . . . . .

[ElNono]

Asked by who?

The guy that tells him to play backup PG against this Heat team... this guy :pop:

[ElNono]

Both Pop and Duncan said Manu needs to do more. Manu said he's doing what he's supposed to do.

There's a disconnect somewhere . . . . .

Well, they have 3 days and a lot of tape to sort it out, tbh

[SpurOutofTownFan]

Asked by who?

His role isn't getting 20 pts a game anymore. That's super obvious. Im not sure when was the last time he attempted 10-15 shots. Maybe in the golden state series

[Yuixafun]

Since when is his role to turn over the ball and shoot stupid 3's that lead to fast breaks.

[TheGoldStandard]

Both Pop and Duncan said Manu needs to do more. Manu said he's doing what he's supposed to do.

There's a disconnect somewhere . . . . .

Manu has the disconnect, he's sticking to the script when he's running Point, he's looking for shooters off PnR especially when they both rush up on him and leave Tiago open. Problem is Tiago sucks balls and can't finish. So, Duncan & Pop saying he needs to do more means he needs to score and look for his shot rather than pass it to someone who's going to fuck it all up. Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me. Manu needs to score at least 10 to 15 points a game the rest of the way out, that scoring will help the drought the Spurs go on when Parker & Tim are out of the game.

The offense is stagnant when manu runs point, lots of standing around and lots of high low pick n roll which would be okay if Splitter wasn't a major douche. I think Diaw should get minutes with Manu and they work some pick n pop or pick n roll with diaw looking to shoot but also the option to pass to a cutting player when he gets the entry pass off the pick.

[MannyIsGod]

Can't fucking believe Manu said that. What in the fuck. Fucker probably thinks he played OK too.

Manu owes it to Spurs fans to do more and try his ass off. Diaw Jr was the best way to put it. We have cheered him on for a long ass time and contrary to the stupid thread title Manu has NEVER been the scapegoat. Not even in 2006. He owes it to us to man the fuck up.

Its one thing if your body is gone. But fuck that bullshit attitude. Thats not cool.

[jestersmash]

His role isn't getting 20 pts a game anymore. That's super obvious. Im not sure when was the last time he attempted 10-15 shots. Maybe in the golden state series

My point was nobody asked him to reduce his scoring load this year. Manu himself took the liberty to reduce his own scoring responsibilities after a string of terrible shooting nights.

According to Pop, Pop never asked Manu to change his role on the team this year. Manu took it upon himself to reduce his own load to that of a common role player.

I mean hell he's taking less of an offensive load than Danny Green right now.

[ElNono]

Manu owes it to Spurs fans

He doesn't owe you shit.

[jestersmash]

Can't fucking believe Manu said that. What in the fuck. Fucker probably thinks he played OK too.

Manu owes it to Spurs fans to do more and try his ass off. Diaw Jr was the best way to put it. We have cheered him on for a long ass time and contrary to the stupid thread title Manu has NEVER been the scapegoat. Not even in 2006. He owes it to us to man the fuck up.

Its one thing if your body is gone. But fuck that bullshit attitude. Thats not cool.

Yeah you know I would've respected Manu a lot more if he just said "You know what, I'm part of the big 3 and it's my responsibility to score 12-15 points per game along with a couple of assists, and I didn't do that tonight. I'm shooting terribly, etc. etc. I need to do better and look for my own shot a little bit more"