Manu Is Considering Retirement

[wtgspurs]

http://espn.go.com/nba/playoffs/2013/story/_/id/9390155/2013-nba-finals-manu-ginobili-san-antonio-spurs-says-considered-retirement

[Skull-1]

Good.

If this is the best he can do then he should leave with some dignity.

[wtgspurs]

Yeah he said that and he also said that sometimes he gets tired of doing this (Playing Basketball), and wishes that he can go home and be with his family.

[slick'81]

I dnt want manu to go.he can still play for another year or two just for a lot less then he made this season.he can still b effective in spurts just need more help around him

[N0 LyF3 ScRuB]

Misleading title. "I probably won't but I can never say never."

[Capt Bringdown]

It's obvious he's stopped trying or caring, so this is good news.

[TheGreatYacht]

I think he should. He definitely looks done out there. Everyone's doubts have been answered. No excuse. He said it himself. He's healthy. Maybe he's not mentally healthy or he could be tired but the Spurs should move on, especially since he will become a free agent.

Should he decide to play one more season, then he should do what Tim Duncan did. He should allow the Spurs to sign the best players possible. If the Spurs end up using all their cap space to sign some really good free agents then so be it. Manu can take the veteran's minimum.

The Spurs should go after Jarret Jack. He would be the perfect replacement for Manu. Jarret Jack can handle the ball, he can get in the lane, and he's clutch. He would be a legit back up point guard to Tony Parker. Almost like having Manu in his prime if the Spurs are able to land Jarett Jack.

[DAF86]

Bunch of faggots on this thread.

[freetiago]

he said 10% chance he retires
at this point theres really no reason for him to stay
misses half of the reg season games
spends the other 40% "getting" there
then reinjures himselfs

also disappeared the last 2 playoffs outside of the home games vs OKC
his career wont magically get better like Duncan since Manu is always injured and he only plays one way
there is no easy way to fix his game like there was for Duncan who just went from post ups to pick and pop
Spurs can make Manu a spot shooter who moves the ball well but there has been 0 indication they would do that or even that Manu wants to do that
just quit now

[SenorSpur]

IMO, it just seems that after 18 years of playing, Manu's body is now betraying him. He's played a lot of years, a lot of minutes and taken a lot of punishment during those years. Now he's clearly on the downside of his athletic abilities. That's just the cycle of a pro athlete - and sometimes the athlete is the last to know that it's time to hang it up.

[Pauleta14]

IF HE WANTS to keep playing why get rid of him??

That's IMO the only condition. HE HAS TO REALLY WANT to keep battling 82games+PO...

Of course he won't have the same role and PT, but why getting rid of THAT talent and individual inside the team?? I don't get it...

[ElNono]

He been saying the same thing since January, tbh...

[eDizzle20]

Anyone that has ever been in a job that requires effort and is performance based has considered quitting when down, but most likely will not realistically. Manu needs to get out of this funk and he'll feel good again. I doubt he retires after this year unless he truly feels he does not have enough left in the tank when training camp rolls around.

[Spurs da champs]

One can only hope...

[TMTTRIO]

I hope so for his sake. Go enjoy your sweet family and your life Manu. What more do you need to play for?

[jag]

It'd be nice if he'd at least wait until the end of the Finals to retire.

[SenorSpur]

Whatever happens, he certainly has nothing else to prove. However, if he truly is considering retirement, it would be nice to go out with a title - a la David Robinson.

[perfectdark]

you just dont stagnate this much in an under a year
he was playing good last playoffs +olympics
if he says hes physically fine then it must be mental
I think he can produce for next 2 yrs

[TheGreatYacht]

SIGN RFA JARRET JACK!

[emanueldavidginobili]

He's not going to retire.

[SA210]

Bunch of faggots on this thread.

[timvp]

Anyone who thinks Manu retiring would be good news for the Spurs is delusional, tbh.

[silverblk mystix]

Lot of stupidity in this thread.

[tenbeersbold]

Ginobli sells season tickets and in the Spurs scheme of things at least as far PATFO is concerned

That is more important than winning a 'chip

Shoestring franchise is gonna cater to its bottom line and that's having the Big 3 on the court as long as possible

Underdog propaganda aside,its just smart bidness

Just like Sjax,everyone aghast that he was cut,LMFAO...

He was ALWAYS going to be cut,PATFO knew that going into the trade..

But PATFO got a two 'fer they saved themselves tens of millions by shedding RJ's contract

AND gained some ticket sales and "cred" by bringin back Sjax for the fans even though it was all a cynical $$$ saving small market side-show.

[tenbeersbold]

Anyone who thinks Manu retiring would be good news for the Spurs is delusional, tbh.
LMFAO,really like that 14 mil wouldnt have been put to better use

No excuse for the highest paid player on a team to be this bad and this bad for a LONG time

You talking as a Spurs front office accountant or as a fan who wants to see the team win???

[timvp]

Ginobli sells season tickets and in the Spurs scheme of things at least as far PATFO is concerned

That is more important than winning a 'chip

Shoestring franchise is gonna cater to its bottom line and that's having the Big 3 on the court as long as possible

Underdog propaganda aside,its just smart bidness

Just like Sjax,everyone aghast that he was cut,LMFAO...

He was ALWAYS going to be cut,PATFO knew that going into the trade..

But PATFO got a two 'fer they saved themselves tens of millions by shedding RJ's contract

AND gained some ticket sales and "cred" by bringin back Sjax for the fans even though it was all a cynical $$$ saving small market side-show.

Most of that makes no sense. The rest of it is stupid since the Spurs are 2-2 in the NBA Finals.


LMFAO,really like that 14 mil wouldnt have been put to better use

No excuse for the highest paid player on a team to be this bad and this bad for a LONG time

You talking as a Spurs front office accountant or as a fan who wants to see the team win???

If you think Manu is going to make $14 million next season, you're also delusional.

[ElNono]

Almost every old player's last year deal looks pretty silly in hindsight, tbh... you can apply that even to Kobe ($30 million)... they're sacrifices teams need to make in order to retain talent...

As far as the Spurs is concerned, they also took advantage of the rookie scale in his first 3 years... but none of this matters, tbh... his salary will be adjusted in the summer...

[HemisfairArena]

If Manu gets anything above a vet minimum contract...we will have overpaid for him. Its time for some fans to get over the emotional side and realize its time to move on.

[ducks]

not if he wants more then the vet min next year
that is what he is worth imo


if the spurs win it all would not shock me if duncan and manu retire together

[SpurOutofTownFan]

I'm appalled at some of the idiots in here.

[bbarry]

Ginobili had career lows in just about every category. It simply is time to hang it up.

[KL2]

He's guaransheed to have a big game this upcoming game, then someone is gonna bump this thread quoting everyone saying "LOLOLOL", then Manu will go back to being shit, then this thread will disappear.

He is done, Spurs need to focus on signing a PG in the offseason.

[Budkin]

Anyone who thinks Manu retiring would be good news for the Spurs is delusional, tbh.

Ditto.

[MannyIsGod]

Almost every old player's last year deal looks pretty silly in hindsight, tbh... you can apply that even to Kobe ($30 million)... they're sacrifices teams need to make in order to retain talent...

As far as the Spurs is concerned, they also took advantage of the rookie scale in his first 3 years... but none of this matters, tbh... his salary will be adjusted in the summer...

Manu was subject to the rookie scale? He was a 2nd round pick...

[spursince#99]

Only if we win a ring would I want to see my favorite player in the history of the sport retire.

[jstep13]

He should retire. Like right now.

[BatManu20]

Anyone who thinks Manu retiring would be good news for the Spurs is delusional, tbh.

[TheGreatYacht]

He's guaransheed to have a big game this upcoming game, then someone is gonna bump this thread quoting everyone saying "LOLOLOL", then Manu will go back to being shit, then this thread will disappear.

He is done, Spurs need to focus on signing a PG in the offseason.Are you people blind? I've been saying this whole time that the Spurs should sign restricted free agent JARRET JACK.

And to those of you bit**ing about hating on Manu and calling us idiots, well get over it. Manu is old. If he wants to play another season have him take the minimum's vet. The guy hasn't done shit on the court outside of that miracle buzzer beater @ GS.

Our role players have done their job so far. Timmy can do more but even he has been more productive than Manu. If the Spurs don't win the championship, the blame will go mostly on him. You guys calling us hypocrites will be the first ones making threads saying "Manu should retire." Get over it. He's old. Even if Manu has that one big game that we've all been waitng for on a Game 6 or 7 and the Spurs win it all, then I'll happily eat crow but my opinion will not change.

I'm not saying that he SHOULD retire but Spurs should not offer him nothing more than the veteran's minimum. Why waste Tony Parker's last five years by not building a championship contender?

[ElNono]

Manu was subject to the rookie scale? He was a 2nd round pick...

Blair was a 2nd round pick too, and he's being paid less than the rookie scale, IIRC.

This was Manu's salary his first two seasons (per basketball reference):
2002-03 San Antonio Spurs NBA $1,325,000
2003-04 San Antonio Spurs NBA $1,457,500

The deal after that:
2004-05 San Antonio Spurs NBA $6,603,500
2005-06 San Antonio Spurs NBA $7,428,937
2006-07 San Antonio Spurs NBA $8,254,375
2007-08 San Antonio Spurs NBA $9,079,811

Bargain basement deal, tbh...

[Skull-1]

It'd be nice if he'd at least wait until the end of the Finals to retire.

And one!

Brilliant. Brilliant!

[SA210]

I'm appalled at some of the idiots in here.

[Skull-1]

The guy doesn't have it any more. We keep hoping but it isn't happenin'. Done.

[MannyIsGod]

Blair was a 2nd round pick too, and he's being paid less than the rookie scale, IIRC.

This was Manu's salary his first two seasons (per basketball reference):
2002-03 San Antonio Spurs NBA $1,325,000
2003-04 San Antonio Spurs NBA $1,457,500

The deal after that:
2004-05 San Antonio Spurs NBA $6,603,500
2005-06 San Antonio Spurs NBA $7,428,937
2006-07 San Antonio Spurs NBA $8,254,375
2007-08 San Antonio Spurs NBA $9,079,811

Bargain basement deal, tbh...

Well thats because 2nd round picks are gambles that rarely pan out. Its not the rookie scale though. Manu's first contract was fair, IMO.

[baseline bum]

I hope he's back for another year or two regardless of this series. I don't know if he's injured or this is just a horrible matchup (probably both), but I think he's got another high quality season in him.

[diego]

are people really implying that the spurs have overpaid manu over his NBA career? wow. I guess because manu is not playing up to his salary level this year, that makes him a thief, nevermind him consistently producing well above his salary for 90% of his NBA career. is this even debatable?

i posted this in another thread:

I dont know how to format it properly, but you know how people love to point out that tim duncan's per 36 numbers are so damn consistent (and even better in some categories). Do the same for manu.
this playoffs it translates to:
15pts 5.4 reb 6.8 ast 1.7 stl .5 blk 3.1 TO .505%TS

and for the regular season:
18.2 pts 5.2 reb 7.1 ast 2.1 stl .3 blk 3.4 to .560%TS

Not great, but certainly not the disaster people are making it out to be.


---

anybody thinking that it will be easy to replace that production, either by FA or from players on the roster, are in for a rude awakening.

[Floyd Pacquiao]

Everybody should just shut the fuck up tbh

[RD2191]

We made it this far with him playing like shit all season, so I don't see how it would be a major blow to the team.

[HemisfairArena]

We made it this far with him playing like shit all season, so I don't see how it would be a major blow to the team.

Bingo. Why not take the extra roster space and money and get another youthful player who can grow with Leonard and Green and try and build a new big 3 instead of clinging onto a 36 year old SG that just doesnt have it anymore only because of emotional value.

[TheGreatYacht]

Bingo. Why not take the extra roster space and money and get another youthful player who can grow with Leonard and Green and try and build a new big 3 instead of clinging onto a 36 year old SG that just doesnt have it anymore only because of emotional value.Bingo. Tell that to those other ppl calling us haters. Cough... Jarret Jack.

[diego]

manu ginobili 2013 season per 36:
18.2 pts 5.2 reb 7.1 ast 2.1 stl .3 blk 3.4 to .560%TS 19.0 PER

jarret jack 2013 season per 36:
15.7 pts 3.7 rev 6.7ast .9stl .2blk 2.4 TO .542%TS 15.9 PER

jack has a better ast/to ratio, nothing else. worst of all, 35 year old manu is actually a better defender than him.

[Spur|n|Austin]

Bunch of faggots on this thread.

[baseline bum]

Bingo. Why not take the extra roster space and money and get another youthful player who can grow with Leonard and Green and try and build a new big 3 instead of clinging onto a 36 year old SG that just doesnt have it anymore only because of emotional value.

I honestly think the "Let Manu Walk" crowd is the one acting emotionally, due to anger over his horrible Finals performance so far. But we're only a year removed from Manu dropping 35 on OKC in a must-win WCF game. Is he done? Possibly. But maybe we're just seeing the culmination of a year where he couldn't get healthy. Maybe he can come back strong again next season. Two years ago Duncan looked like the one on his last legs, and he's had an enormous renaissance these last two years when he has managed to stay healthy. And Manu is way too talented and way too competitive to just throw aside after one bad year. Manu Ginobili's don't grow on trees and the Spurs will have a difficult time finding another player like him in the future. What's the opportunity cost of re-signing Manu next summer? They don't get to sign Kyle Korver? Dwight Howard isn't coming to San Antonio.

[TheGreatYacht]

manu ginobili 2013 season per 36:
18.2 pts 5.2 reb 7.1 ast 2.1 stl .3 blk 3.4 to .560%TS 19.0 PER

jarret jack 2013 season per 36:
15.7 pts 3.7 rev 6.7ast .9stl .2blk 2.4 TO .542%TS 15.9 PER

jack has a better ast/to ratio, nothing else. worst of all, 35 year old manu is actually a better defender than him.Buddy, the playoffs is what matters. Doesn't do us any good that Manu has a decent regular season only for him to run out of gas in the playoffs.

[100%duncan]

Bunch of faggots on this thread.

[baseline bum]

I'm a little nervous about offering Jarrett Jack a long-term deal after one good season shooting the three. Jack is an enormous chucker.

[therealtruth]

Just reduce his responsibilities to get him to last longer. Get an actual backup PG or use McGrady. Let him play off the ball and focus on his shooting. His playmaking should be secondary. Finley was able to keep playing past his expiration date.

[ElNono]

Well thats because 2nd round picks are gambles that rarely pan out. Its not the rookie scale though. Manu's first contract was fair, IMO.

Sure Manny, not rookie scale, but the Spurs had a top 5 SG pretty much after his first season in the league. By league standards, his first two deals weren't fair, they were an absolute steal. I mean props to the FO, etc. but there's no spinning that shit.

[TheGreatYacht]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5S6ghT25jsA

[HemisfairArena]

I honestly think the "Let Manu Walk" crowd is the one acting emotionally, due to anger over his horrible Finals performance so far. But we're only a year removed from Manu dropping 35 on OKC in a must-win WCF game. Is he done? Possibly. But maybe we're just seeing the culmination of a year where he couldn't get healthy. Maybe he can come back strong again next season. Two years ago Duncan looked like the one on his last legs, and he's had an enormous renaissance these last two years when he has managed to stay healthy. And Manu is way too talented and way too competitive to just throw aside after one bad year. Manu Ginobili's don't grow on trees and the Spurs will have a difficult time finding another player like him in the future. What's the opportunity cost of re-signing Manu next summer? They don't get to sign Kyle Korver? Dwight Howard isn't coming to San Antonio.

I get exactly where you are coming from. My POV isnt from just the Finals. We have all watched him struggle to stay healthy but we were rewarded with decent games when he was so we overlooked it. Now that along with no endurance comes ineffectiveness and thats a whole new ballgame. PG/SG hybrids are the easiest positions to replace in the NBA. They basically grow on trees. Yes, Manu has been an invaluable player for our Spurs but IMO...its time to move on. If we can get him for the vet minimum then I say okay because what he has meant to this team and city but we really should look at using that money and roster spot to get younger.

[100%duncan]

lol Jarrett Jack

[maverick1948]

Anyone who thinks Manu retiring would be good news for the Spurs is delusional, tbh.

I agree with TimVP. Losing Manu would not be good news. But delusional? No. He is going to go sooner than later. With the loss of Neal and Blair, we will have 3 slots open for draft and free agents. Manu would make 4 if he retires. We will have about 12.5 mil to work within free agency. We need a big and a backup PG or wing. Splitter is going to get offers. We have to match them if we can. That will take some of the 12.5 mil to finish out the qualifying offer. If Real Madrid makes Splitter a good enough offer, he may go back to Spain, his wife is from Spain. If he goes, then we need 2 bigs and PG or wing. If Manu retires, we would add another wing to that list. Worst case, Splitter leaves, Manu retires. 18.5 mill to fill their slots plus draft. Best case, Splitter stays for 8 mill, Manu returns for 3.5 mill, we have only 6.5 Mill +/- to fill 3 open slots(McGrady will not return) from the draft and free agency.

From a fan's point of view, I love Manu and will hate seeing him retire. From the point of view of the Front office, I have weigh tickets against wins. Tickets sell because of players, but wins also sell tickets. Yes, Manu sells, but Kawhi and Danny also, are starting to sell tickets too. Especially, Kawhi.

Thinking with your heart, you keep Manu, thinking with your business head, you know he will have to take a deep cut in pay to stay.

[superjames1992]

We are screwed if Jarrett Jack is our savior, tbh. :lol

[DesignatedT]

If he's "tired" of the game and isn't emotionally and physically involved in the game anymore then that is certainly attributing to his struggles.

[Fabbs]

Mods change this misleading thread title.

[dallasmaverickslose]

Gotta agree with timvp here. Losing Manu will hurt a lot.

He has a terrible game and all of a sudden you all hate him. Can't believe it.

[TheGreatYacht]

Gotta agree with timvp here. Losing Manu will hurt a lot.

He has a terrible game and all of a sudden you all hate him. Can't believe it.More like a terrible playoff run.

[dallasmaverickslose]

More like a terrible playoff run.

You're an idiot.

[rascal]

Bingo. Why not take the extra roster space and money and get another youthful player who can grow with Leonard and Green and try and build a new big 3 instead of clinging onto a 36 year old SG that just doesnt have it anymore only because of emotional value.

Agree. They should have gotten rid of him after 2007. His value was high and they could have gotten some value back that could have helped them in the following years, instead Manu was always injured during the playoffs.

[Oink Oink]

some people are really ungrateful

[ElNono]

Bottom line is a 3 year/$21million deal (2 last years player option) for *this* Manu is great value both for the Spurs and the player, tbh...

[timvp]

Judging Manu just from this playoff run, he's been worse than we hoped/expected. But let's not take it overboard -- he's still a high quality NBA player. He's the best passing off-guard in the NBA. He has been strong defensively this season. He can play 1, 2 or 3. He's a streaky shooter but has a knack of hitting important shots. Judging him just on his playoffs, Ginobili is still worth something like two years for $7-8 million total.

Looking at the bigger picture and putting his regular season play into the equation, he's still worth something like two years and $12-13 million.

The good thing about Manu as he ages is that he's so skillful that he'll remain useful. As a playmaker off the bench, he is extremely valuable. Let him get healthy and his shooting will likely return. And even during his struggles in the Finals, his athleticism (jumping-wise, at least) has looked fine and not too far removed from his latter prime years.

[ElNono]

People also confuse playing the Bobcats vs playing the champs, tbh... even with his current shooting struggles, he's a super sub against 80% of the league... we don't play Miami all season long...

[Truckules]

I think he still has uses during the regular season, but his time in the rotation during the playoffs is done.

[Chinook]

Bottom line is a 3 year/$21million deal (2 last years player option) for *this* Manu is great value both for the Spurs and the player, tbh...

In all contracts except those for first-round rookies, there can be only one option year, and that year must be the final year.

[ElNono]

In all contracts except those for first-round rookies, there can be only one option year, and that year must be the final year.

Make it 2+1 then, tbh... he can retire at any time anyways, IIRC.

[pgardn]

It's obvious he's stopped trying or caring, so this is good news.

For real...?

Make a fist and rack your raisin balls.
Do it now.

[Chinook]

Make it 2+1 then, tbh... he can retire at any time anyways, IIRC.

I'd prefer a 1+1 or a 1+2 two non-guaranteed years with a no-trade clause. That way, he has the security to play for the Spurs or another team of his choice, but the team also gets protection if he breaks down and potentially a nice trade chip if he wants to hang it up.

A $7 Million dust chip would be great to have, and Manu should be okay with the trade if he was going to retire anyway.

[ElNono]

I'd prefer a 1+1 or a 1+2 two non-guaranteed years with a no-trade clause. That way, he has the security to play for the Spurs or another team of his choice, but the team also gets protection if he breaks down and potentially a nice trade chip if he wants to hang it up.

A $7 Million dust chip would be great to have, and Manu should be okay with the trade if he was going to retire anyway.

He's gonna retire a Spur... it's the Spurs or retirement...

[Chinook]

He's gonna retire a Spur... it's the Spurs or retirement...

The trade would be made only after he makes it clear he's hanging things up. Then, if the Spurs are over the cap, they can use his contract to get a decent piece (or just release him if they're under the cap). He could report to the other team, take his physical, get released and go back to San Antonio for his farewell press conference. It's not like it forces him to play for the other team. If he doesn't want to be traded, he could invoke his no-trade clause as I mentioned earlier. All that contract does is protect both sides in the case of a messy divorce. If Ginobili still wants to play but the Spurs think he's too broken down, they can release him. He then would get the choice of playing somewhere else or retiring. With his no-trade clause, he couldn't be sent somewhere without his consent, so he could have that piece of mind that he won't be forced to a bad situation for his last years.

[ElNono]

The trade would be made only after he makes it clear he's hanging things up. Then, if the Spurs are over the cap, they can use his contract to get a decent piece (or just release him if they're under the cap). He could report to the other team, take his physical, get released and go home. It's not like it forces him to play for the other team. If he doesn't want to be traded, he could invoke his no-trade clause as I mentioned earlier. All that contract does is protect both sides in the case of a messy divorce. If Ginobili still wants to play but the Spurs think he's too broken down, they can release him. He then would get the choice of playing somewhere else or retiring. With his no-trade clause, he couldn't be sent somewhere without his consent, so he could have that piece of mind that he won't be forced to a bad situation for his last years.

Oh I know how that works... pretty much what Bowen did...

[Chinook]

Oh I know how that works... pretty much what Bowen did...

Yeah, and like McDyess. It seems like the Celtics did a similar thing with Pierce. The Spurs could even guarantee some money for his trouble. If they do that, then even a bigger contract may offer the team some help in the future.

[dg7md]

Good. Manu is washed up and has cost us a lot of chances to win games in this series.

I love him for what he has done for this franchise, but currently, he is truly a threat to our chances to win a series that is certainly winnable for us. He was instrumental in our 2005 and 2007 runs, but right now and throughout the recent years of the playoffs — he has cost us.

Poor timing to reveal this out in the middle of the post-season when his biggest focus should be not looking like an aloof player out there. He is more Turnobili and less spectacular than he should be to win these games.

[MannyIsGod]

Sure Manny, not rookie scale, but the Spurs had a top 5 SG pretty much after his first season in the league. By league standards, his first two deals weren't fair, they were an absolute steal. I mean props to the FO, etc. but there's no spinning that shit.

You can't like Manu got nothing in return. Yeah, the Spurs got excellent value on his first deal but very few 2nd round draft picks pan out. The contract he got was actually larger than most 2nd round picks get, IIRC. The 2nd one was fair too. Manu got paid and he won rings. He had the option to leave to Denver where he would not have been as successful. Manu traded money for the chance to win rings. Good choice, Manu.

[MannyIsGod]

Bottom line is a 3 year/$21million deal (2 last years player option) for *this* Manu is great value both for the Spurs and the player, tbh...

Would be extremely overpaying for this Manu, IMO.

More like 2 years 10 million (which I still feel is a bit high).

[Sean Cagney]

We are screwed if Jarrett Jack is our savior, tbh. :lol

I would take him with the way he played in these playoffs over a few on our team. He is not a savior but he had a very good playoffs and LIT US UP LOL! He could not miss.
Would be extremely overpaying for this Manu, IMO.

More like 2 years 10 million (which I still feel is a bit high).

Yours seems very reasonable there!

[SpurOutofTownFan]

I'm very disgusted, appalled, and shocked by all the stupid comments about Manu in this and other threads. You guys have come out of your hole to take advantage of the situation. Pretty sure you've been looking for your opportunity for a long time.

It's really sad. But let's hazard something here, shall we. What if Manu has a couple monster games and the Spurs end up winning the finals? are you going to come out and apologize, beg for your Internet life, bend over?

Some of the stuff I've been reading is borderline hateful. I'm not sure what Manu has ever done to warrant such behavior by some so-called Spurs' fans. I can't find any instance or situation in which Manu has behaved in disrespect or disdain for the Spurs' organization or its fans. It's pretty saddening that some people aren't just cut out to watch basketball or have an opinion anymore.

I understand you will try silencing me by saying he has had a horrible playoff season. There's no need. I can see that myself so that's a point that you don't need to make.

But everything else that has been said and "DONE" here in these forums cannot be taken back and If I was Manu I would definitely be thinking long and hard about moving to another team or quitting after the barrage of stupidity in this forum, which turns to be the #1 Spurs-related forum on the planet. If you believe for a second he doesn't know what is going on in here you are delusional.

I don't know Manu personally, but as I'm writing these words, I feel the pain of what is going on. I'm really shocked at the stuff I'm reading in these forums. I think some people have seriously soiled this place beyond repair, and before you call me "melodramatic" I can tell you I'm not the only one feeling that way.

I don't care about those who have an opinion and clearly don't understand about basketball. I can't take them seriously. But I'm shocked about hearing these things from those who I believeD knew about the game. I'm truly and utterly appalled by their behavior, especially since I've known them in this place for many many years. I won't waste my time pointing out names - you know who you are and what you have done.

I wanted to see Manu come back next year and together with Timmy and Tony attempt to overtake the LA trio with 110 playoff wins. I thought that was a nice and profound way to install this team as a dynasty for ever. Now I'm not sure anymore whether that could ever materialize since so many people are calling for Manu to retire "right now". I don't think he deserves these from fans at all. If he had been a different type of player, with real issues, and an asshole, I could actually understand something like this a little bit. But that's just not true. Can you see that?

Last but not least. There has been some people actually trying to sell the idea that Manu has been overpaid during his tenure at the Spurs. I'm not sure what you are on but I don't want any of that.

[MannyIsGod]

I'm very disgusted, appalled, and shocked by all the stupid comments about Manu in this and other threads. You guys have come out of your hole to take advantage of the situation. Pretty sure you've been looking for your opportunity for a long time.

It's really sad. But let's hazard something here, shall we. What if Manu has a couple monster games and the Spurs end up winning the finals? are you going to come out and apologize, beg for your Internet life, bend over?

Some of the stuff I've been reading is borderline hateful. I'm not sure what Manu has ever done to warrant such behavior by some so-called Spurs' fans. I can't find any instance or situation in which Manu has behaved in disrespect or disdain for the Spurs' organization or its fans. It's pretty saddening that some people aren't just cut out to watch basketball or have an opinion anymore.

I understand you will try silencing me by saying he has had a horrible playoff season. There's no need. I can see that myself so that's a point that you don't need to make.

But everything else that has been said and "DONE" here in these forums cannot be taken back and If I was Manu I would definitely be thinking long and hard about moving to another team or quitting after the barrage of stupidity in this forum, which turns to be the #1 Spurs-related forum on the planet. If you believe for a second he doesn't know what is going on in here you are delusional.

I don't know Manu personally, but as I'm writing these words, I feel the pain of what is going on. I'm really shocked at the stuff I'm reading in these forums. I think some people have seriously soiled this place beyond repair, and before you call me "melodramatic" I can tell you I'm not the only one feeling that way.

I don't care about those who have an opinion and clearly don't understand about basketball. I can't take them seriously. But I'm shocked about hearing these things from those who I believeD knew about the game. I'm truly and utterly appalled by their behavior, especially since I've known them in this place for many many years. I won't waste my time pointing out names - you know who you are and what you have done.

I wanted to see Manu come back next year and together with Timmy and Tony attempt to overtake the LA trio with 110 playoff wins. I thought that was a nice and profound way to install this team as a dynasty for ever. Now I'm not sure anymore whether that could ever materialize since so many people are calling for Manu to retire "right now". I don't think he deserves these from fans at all. If he had been a different type of player, with real issues, and an asshole, I could actually understand something like this a little bit. But that's just not true. Can you see that?

Last but not least. There has been some people actually trying to sell the idea that Manu has been overpaid during his tenure at the Spurs. I'm not sure what you are on but I don't want any of that.

You have the perfect avatar for this bullshit. This is one of the more melodramatic posts I've read on here in a long time. Thanks for bolding it. The impact was so much more with the bold

I promise you every Spurs fan hopes Manu plays extremely well over the next 2 games. I promise you no Spurs fan wants him to suck. LOL @ soiled this place. The criticism Manu has gotten recently is not even a top 50 thing in the worst things posted on this site.

[SpurOutofTownFan]

You have the perfect avatar for this bullshit. This is one of the more melodramatic posts I've read on here in a long time. Thanks for bolding it. The impact was so much more with the bold

I promise you every Spurs fan hopes Manu plays extremely well over the next 2 games. I promise you no Spurs fan wants him to suck. LOL @ soiled this place. The criticism Manu has gotten recently is not even a top 50 thing in the worst things posted on this site.

Thank you for the seriousness in your reply. I see what you are trying to do, but it doesn't change what happened the last couple days.

[ElNono]

You can't like Manu got nothing in return. Yeah, the Spurs got excellent value on his first deal but very few 2nd round draft picks pan out. The contract he got was actually larger than most 2nd round picks get, IIRC. The 2nd one was fair too. Manu got paid and he won rings. He had the option to leave to Denver where he would not have been as successful. Manu traded money for the chance to win rings. Good choice, Manu.

But that's ridiculous, Manny. He earned the rings being an integral part of those playoffs runs. It wasn't given to him. The fact that the Spurs not only got great talent on the cheap but also a loyal guy much more interested in winning than money, goes to show that when you look at market-value, Manu has been a bargain for at least the first 6 years or his career. The Spurs luckied out on him in much more ways than one. The fact that they agreed to a contract in 03-04 instead of 04-05 (after the olympics and the Pistons finals) was nothing but major luck and some savvy business. Around that time he was easily top 3 SG in the league, and earning nowhere near a max deal.

Let's not be silly here, you can see ridiculously overpaid played all over the league. Joe Johnson? Kobe? Nash? You could say this season Manu was overpaid, but overall throughout his career, the Spurs have had him way cheap compared to the league's market value.

[ElNono]

Would be extremely overpaying for this Manu, IMO.

More like 2 years 10 million (which I still feel is a bit high).

I'm gonna fess up about this one. It was actually a bait attempt with the 3 years part, and not only nobody bit, we had timvp and Chinook roll around here and basically agree with the numbers (:lol)

I thought I had a homerun, tbh... :depressed

[MannyIsGod]

But that's ridiculous, Manny. He earned the rings being an integral part of those playoffs runs. It wasn't given to him. The fact that the Spurs not only got great talent on the cheap but also a loyal guy much more interested in winning than money, goes to show that when you look at market-value, Manu has been a bargain for at least the first 6 years or his career. The Spurs luckied out on him in much more ways than one. The fact that they agreed to a contract in 03-04 instead of 04-05 (after the olympics and the Pistons finals) was nothing but major luck and some savvy business. Around that time he was easily top 3 SG in the league, and earning nowhere near a max deal.

Let's not be silly here, you can see ridiculously overpaid played all over the league. Joe Johnson? Kobe? Nash? You could say this season Manu was overpaid, but overall throughout his career, the Spurs have had him way cheap compared to the league's market value.

Dude you want to look at every contract with hindsight instead of at the time it was being signed. Of course the Spurs got value but there's a reason Manu never had a max contract and thats because he was never a free agent when he was a max type player. When he signed his contracts, he got fair contracts. You compared them to a rookie deal which isn't a fair comparison. A #1 pick being restricted on what they can earn is not the same as a 50+ pick getting a small contract.

And while the Spurs may have gotten lucky, Manu got lucky as hell too. If the Spurs don't draft him then he probably doesn't come to the NBA until later in this career. Manu was one of the first international players brought over before it became mainstream to scout overseas. Everyone benefited from those contracts.

[MannyIsGod]

I'm gonna fess up about this one. It was actually a bait attempt with the 3 years part, and not only nobody bit, we had timvp (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=8) and Chinook (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=37557) roll around here and basically agree with the numbers (:lol)

I thought I had a homerun, tbh... :depressed


:lmao

[ElNono]

Dude you want to look at every contract with hindsight instead of at the time it was being signed. Of course the Spurs got value but there's a reason Manu never had a max contract and thats because he was never a free agent when he was a max type player. When he signed his contracts, he got fair contracts. You compared them to a rookie deal which isn't a fair comparison. A #1 pick being restricted on what they can earn is not the same as a 50+ pick getting a small contract.

What I'm pointing out is that his performance outweighed his salary many times. I mean, if we're going to bitch about what he's making this particular season based on how he played this season, when the contract was signed 4 years ago, then it's fair to say Manu in 02-03, 03-04, 04-05, 05-06, 06-07 was underpaid for what was bringing to the table back then.


And while the Spurs may have gotten lucky, Manu got lucky as hell too. If the Spurs don't draft him then he probably doesn't come to the NBA until later in this career. Manu was one of the first international players brought over before it became mainstream to scout overseas. Everyone benefited from those contracts.

I'm not even sure I want to go there. There's zero doubt he would've been a multi-millionaire playing in Europe too.

He certainly wasn't a pioneer in foreigners-in-the-NBA area. The first actual 'wave' of overseas talent predates him (Kukoc, Petrovic, Sabonis, Divac, etc). He was certainly part of talent that solidified that.

[Chinook]

I'm gonna fess up about this one. It was actually a bait attempt with the 3 years part, and not only nobody bit, we had timvp (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=8) and Chinook (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=37557) roll around here and basically agree with the numbers (:lol)

I thought I had a homerun, tbh... :depressed

His stats over the last four years (his WS and PER compared to other older guards) indeed put him in the $21M/3 range as far as production goes. What he and the Spurs agree to is a different matter altogether, though. Remember, even before his resurgence, Duncan still had a max-player level impact. He would have been worth a $48/3 deal easily.

[ElNono]

His stats over the last four years (his WS and PER compared to other older guards) indeed put him in the $21M/3 range as far as production goes. What he and the Spurs agree to is a different matter altogether, though. Remember, even before his resurgence, Duncan still had a max-player level impact. He would have been worth a $48/3 deal easily.

AFAIK, based on some of the articles I translated over the last year that touched on the topic, my impression is that if Manu wants to come back, the situation will be similar to TD last summer... in other words, the Spurs will make their moves, and then will sit down and see what's left and consider fair. I'm sure if Manu doesn't retire (which IMO is unlikely), he'll be a Spurs next season.

[Chinook]

But really, who cares what Ginobili makes if the Spurs don't plan to use cap space? The team is probably just going to stand pat, anyway. If they trade Bonner during the draft, use their pick on a domestic player and use the MLE to get a couple of back-ups. They'll be able to re-sign Ginobili and Splitter to whatever contracts they want and still stay under the tax. That's the most likely scenario.

[TheGreatYacht]

AFAIK, based on some of the articles I translated over the last year that touched on the topic, my impression is that if Manu wants to come back, the situation will be similar to TD last summer... in other words, the Spurs will make their moves, and then will sit down and see what's left and consider fair. I'm sure if Manu doesn't retire (which IMO is unlikely), he'll be a Spurs next season.Good. Spurs should use their cap space to sign Jarret Jack (Manu's replacement and backup PG to Tony Parker) and another big man, either Al Jefferson or David West. If Manu doesn't retire then the Spurs can sign him with whatever cap room or money there is left. Isn't that what Duncan did so that the Spurs could sign Richard Jefferson?

[Chinook]

AFAIK, based on some of the articles I translated over the last year that touched on the topic, my impression is that if Manu wants to come back, the situation will be similar to TD last summer... in other words, the Spurs will make their moves, and then will sit down and see what's left and consider fair. I'm sure if Manu doesn't retire (which IMO is unlikely), he'll be a Spurs next season.

I agree. It really depends on how much of a discount he's willing to give. If he's thinking room exception, the Spurs will be able to get at least one significant free agent (Millsap/Iguadola caliber) or a even a max player if they decide not to keep Splitter. But if San Antonio has no desire to make such a drastic move, there's no reason not to give Ginobili a healthy deal that allows them to get out of it after next season if Manu doesn't want to keep playing. Then the team will have a lot more money (Diaw, De Colo and Mills count for about six million and the cap is supposed to increase by another four) and a better crop of players to try to sign.

[ElNono]

Don't sleep on Neal's situation either, especially after these Finals. Wouldn't be out of the realm of possibilities that some team throws stupid money at him, and the Spurs might not want to match and overpay. In a way, I think DeColo is insurance for that, but there's still many questions about DeColo... in that case Manu would be great insurance.

[Chinook]

Good. Spurs should use their cap space to sign Jarret Jack (Manu's replacement and backup PG to Tony Parker) and another big man, either Al Jefferson or David West. If Manu doesn't retire then the Spurs can sign him with whatever cap room or money there is left. Isn't that what Duncan did so that the Spurs could sign Richard Jefferson?

Sort of. The Spurs stayed over the cap last off-season, so there was no reason to order all of the signings in any special way. Duncan could literally wait until the team re-signed everyone and then take what's left.

Ginobili can't do that exactly, because the Spurs have to deal with his cap hold. So they'd either have to renounce him and ear-mark either the room exception or a certain chunk of cap space for him or give him a deal before trying to sign someone else. In theory this isn't difficult, because there is a period at the beginning of the off-season when teams at talk to, but not actually sign free agents. So the team could agree to the necessary deals and then officially send them into the league in the necessary order. But practically speaking, this is harder, since there are some monetary hangups that could occur. If the Spurs decide to stay over the cap, or if Ginobili decides to take the room exception, none of that matters. But any free-agent foray that requires Ginobili to wait until the end for a deal is risky.

Also, Jack is going to get about $8 Million a year. He's not really a realistic target.

[Chinook]

Well, Nono if the Spurs stay over the cap, then they can re-sign Neal without much worry. I honestly think the bigger barrier to bringing Gary back will be playing time. The guard rotation is way too full right now to re-sign Neal to a big deal. They at least have to get rid of Mills first.

Remember, though. Neal's cap hold is almost nothing (between $300k and $600k when factoring in the roster charge). If they plan to use cap space AND re-sign Neal. It shouldn't be any more difficult than it will be already with Splitter.

[Indazone]

What you guys need is for CP3 to come over next year. lol

[Sean Cagney]

What you guys need is for CP3 to come over next year. lol

Last thing we need is a PG right now, try a SG! CP3 is not that much better than Tony if at all! What the hell do we need another PG FOR? We need a star SG to come over or a Center, thank you.

[ElNono]

Well, Nono if the Spurs stay over the cap, then they can re-sign Neal without much worry. I honestly think the bigger barrier to bringing Gary back will be playing time. The guard rotation is way too full right now to re-sign Neal to a big deal. They at least have to get rid of Mills first.

Remember, though. Neal's cap hold is almost nothing (between $300k and $600k when factoring in the roster charge). If they plan to use cap space AND re-sign Neal. It shouldn't be any more difficult than it will be already with Splitter.

If the Isiah Thomas of the league extends a $40million/4 year offer sheet to Neal and he signs it, doesn't the Spurs have to match that or let him walk? Not saying it's going to happen, but it's not like we don't see teams throwing stupid money at marginal talent all the time. Or that's not a realistic scenario because there's not many teams with cap space?

[ElNono]

Last thing we need is a PG right now, try a SG! CP3 is not that much better than Tony if at all! What the hell do we need another PG FOR? We need a star SG to come over or a Center, thank you.

Actually, too late now, but this team is sorely lacking a solid, natural backup PG. Manu is filling in the position as best he can because we have nobody else, but he's a SG.

[Sean Cagney]

Actually, too late now, but this team is sorely lacking a solid, natural backup PG. Manu is filling in the position as best he can because we have nobody else, but he's a SG.
CP3 will not be a backup anywhere NONO! We need Jarrett Jack for that! DAMNIT!

[SpurSpurSpurs]

Anyone who thinks Manu retiring would be good news for the Spurs is delusional, tbh.

They hate Manu so much. They already forgot how he is still valuable to our team.

[Chinook]

If the Isiah Thomas of the league extends a $40million/4 year offer sheet to Neal and he signs it, doesn't the Spurs have to match that or let him walk? Not saying it's going to happen, but it's not like we don't see teams throwing stupid money at marginal talent all the time. Or that's not a realistic scenario because there's not many teams with cap space?

-Neal doesn't have to sign any offer sheet. He can bring it to the Spurs and try to work out a better deal (like a $45M/5 under you scenario). Obviously, since that's too much for the Spurs to even pretend to want to match, Neal would (and should) sign the offer sheet and go to his new team.

-I don't think that it's realistic to expect THAT much given Neal's age, but he could get a deal like Crawford ($21.5M/4) around the MLE. Maybe he gets up to six million a year. Either way, that may be more than the Spurs want to pay. So functionally, your fears are well-founded. Teams need some type of scoring punch, and a few like Memphis should make competitive offers.

-If a team offers are more-realistic contract (like $13M/3 or $18M/4) and they fear the Spurs may match it, they can try to work out a sign-and-trade, which may net the Spurs a small asset like a draft pick. These types of S&Ts are not unheard of.

[ElNono]

CP3 will not be a backup anywhere NONO! We need Jarrett Jack for that! DAMNIT!

Oh I agree with that, just saying a solid backup PG that can initiate the offense would've been nice to have right about now.

[Sean Cagney]

Oh I agree with that, just saying a solid backup PG that can initiate the offense would've been nice to have right about now.

I miss Brent Barry on our title teams speaking of this, that or Claxton in 03. We don't have that luxury this year.

[ElNono]

-Neal doesn't have to sign any offer sheet. He can bring it to the Spurs and try to work out a better deal (like a $45M/5 under you scenario). Obviously, since that's too much for the Spurs to even pretend to want to match, Neal would (and should) sign the offer sheet and go to his new team.

-I don't think that it's realistic to expect THAT much given Neal's age, but he could get a deal like Crawford ($21.5M/4) around the MLE. Maybe he gets up to six million a year. Either way, that may be more than the Spurs want to pay. So functionally, your fears are well-founded. Teams need some type of scoring punch, and a few like Memphis should make competitive offers.

-If a team offers are more-realistic contract (like $13M/3 or $18M/4) and they fear the Spurs may match it, they can try to work out a sign-and-trade, which may net the Spurs a small asset like a draft pick. These types of S&Ts are not unheard of.

He's 28, and seeing he's a good spot up shooter, I can easily see him having at least another 5/6 years in the league. I don't know what the cap situation is for Golden State (and I'm sure RJ opting in on the $10m of his last year doesn't help), but I always thought he would be a great fit there (no defense, chucking). On that note, there's plenty of teams that really don't demand a whole lot from the defensive end, so I can see him being sought after. The question really is what other teams think is his true value.

[ElNono]

I miss Brent Barry on our title teams speaking of this, that or Claxton in 03. We don't have that luxury this year.

Somebody brought up TJ Ford... he would've been nice to have.

[Chinook]

He's 28, and seeing he's a good spot up shooter, I can easily see him having at least another 5/6 years in the league. I don't know what the cap situation is for Golden State (and I'm sure RJ opting in on the $10m of his last year doesn't help), but I always thought he would be a great fit there (no defense, chucking). On that note, there's plenty of teams that really don't demand a whole lot from the defensive end, so I can see him being sought after. The question really is what other teams think is his true value.

Players of his ilk (no-defense sixth-man scorers) usually go for about the MLE. Jarrod Jack, Lou Williams and Jamal Crawford are the primary examples of that. If you can do more like JR Smith, then you get more.

Golden State's in cap hell right now, as they have RJ and Biedrins making $20 Million next season in addition to having to actually pay Curry. They won't be able to re-sign both Jack and Landry without going into the tax, let alone adding Neal. I agree he'll be valuable to any team that has a bad bench and wants to fix it with their MLE. Indiana is another team that could sorely use him right now.

[Sean Cagney]

Somebody brought up TJ Ford... he would've been nice to have.

He never could stay healthy though! But yes if he was he could have helped out alot, a true PG!

[TheGreatYacht]

CP3 will not be a backup anywhere NONO! We need Jarrett Jack for that! DAMNIT!https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/1017478_205324959620223_1498252683_n.jpg

[Sean Cagney]

https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc1/995691_205320516287334_115597267_n.jpg

LOL! That dude can flat out score though! I will take him on my side anyday! He is clutch too.

[TheGreatYacht]

LOL! That dude can flat out score though! I will take him on my side anyday! He is clutch too.Me too.

https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/1017478_205324959620223_1498252683_n.jpg

[ErnestLynch]

I dnt want manu to go.he can still play for another year or two just for a lot less then he made this season.he can still b effective in spurts just need more help around him

He needs more help around him ? We're in the NBA finals, junior. I'd say he has a pretty good team 'around him'.

[SpurSpurSpurs]

I wouldn't be surprised if they re-sign him with a more significant amount than what most people suggests here, just because he can fills the seats in ATT center.

[Arcadian]

I'm a little pissed at Ginobili. He's close to ruining Duncan's last chance at getting a title. He is hurting the team, and his minutes would be better filled by another player. It seems like he's already checked out.

I hope he proves me wrong in game 5.

[mudyez]

I wont say, that I'm happy if he retires, but if we win #5 it may be the perfect time to do so.

[T Park]

A lot of of the numbskulls in this thread need to do shots of bleach with a draino chaser

[DAF86]

Agree. They should have gotten rid of him after 2007. His value was high and they could have gotten some value back that could have helped them in the following years, instead Manu was always injured during the playoffs.

If Manu leaves the Spurs after '07 chances are that the Spurs blow the team up after a couple of mediocre seasons (maybe not even making the playoffs) and they wouldn't be where they are now.

[therealtruth]

I miss Brent Barry on our title teams speaking of this, that or Claxton in 03. We don't have that luxury this year.

The closest we have is TMac. I think Pop will have to use that card if we're struggling to get ball movement.

[timvp]

If Manu leaves the Spurs after '07 chances are that the Spurs blow the team up after a couple of mediocre seasons (maybe not even making the playoffs) and they wouldn't be where they are now.

You have rascal confused for someone who wants the Spurs to win a fifth championship.