Julian Mozo (Ole' Argentine reporter) is on the Ticket right now

[Kori Ellis]

Click on Listen Live.

http://ticket760.com/main.html

[Kori Ellis]

He is saying that Scola is pissed off at the Spurs and he feels betrayed. And that he's going to ask to get his rights traded. He says the buyout isn't $14M -- it's $3M.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

i just heard that

im kind of shocked

[Kori Ellis]

Julian hasn't spoken to Scola himself yet, but has talked to his manager and this is what he has heard.

It's interesting.

[usckk]

Boo...Bad Scola.

[Kori Ellis]

did i hear right the buyout was only 3mil


Yes, that's what Julian (and another Argentine reporter) told me early this morning -- $3.2M.

[Kori Ellis]

He's also saying that Oberto may end up being the starter for the Spurs :)

[Marcus Bryant]

Very interesting. I'd think the Spurs only say that if they are intent on keeping his rights. Perhaps they wanted Oberto first and want to wait on Scola? Or perhaps they want him to bitch so that they have some reason to move him?

Hmmm...the latter would fit the Spurs' F.O.'s M.O.

Still, why make it seem like it would be costly to bring him over?

[usckk]

He's also saying that Oberto may end up being the starter for the Spurs :)

Over both Rasho and Nazr!?!?!

[batman2883]

You see i knew something like this was going to happen, the Spurs really could use this guy Scola is suppose to be the next best thing. They better not let him slip through our hands. If we trade him, something tells me that he will burn us every game we play against him.

[Marcus Bryant]

that's good and all but I would be lying if I said the Spurs didn't dissapoint me by not buiying out Scola

Have you seen Scola and Oberto play?

[Marcus Bryant]

Have any of you seen Scola play or are you basing your opinions on the hype?

[clubalien]

mayve spurs want scola to demand being traded that way they can trade for SAR or somone and include scolas rights and it is scolas fault for not playing for spurs not the spurs since he demanded trade, the spurs didn;t trade him

[ChumpDumper]

What country is he from again?

[batman2883]

I've seen Scola play, he is a beast, he will improve any team he plays on, not a franchise player but still a dominant one.

[Marcus Bryant]

So none of you know if Oberto is better or not.

[MaNuMaNiAc]

So none of you know if Oberto is better or not.
I do

[clubalien]

chump he was the center on the national team with manu
GREAT player better big man then scola

[MaNuMaNiAc]

chump he was the center on the national team with manu
GREAT player better big man then scola
no he's not! Scola brings twice what Oberto can bring, and without the attitude!

[Dex]

If the Spurs were to pay the 3.2/14 million for the buyout, since the NBA regulates that teams can only apply $300,000 towards such transactions, does that mean the remainder would have to come out of Holt's (and the other owners') pocket?

If that's that case, then Scola is probably going to remain pissed off. :(

[spurjur]

The last person who demanded a trade was Derek Anderson and we all know what happened to that guy.

[Kori Ellis]

Scola brings twice what Oberto can bring, and without the attitude!

Oberto has a bad attitude?

I always hear that he has an awesome attitude (and Scola not so great!)

[ChumpDumper]

Well, I haven't seen him play so I know he sucks.

[Marcus Bryant]

If the Spurs were to pay the 3.2/14 million for the buyout, since the NBA regulates that teams can only apply $300,000 towards such transactions, does that mean the remainder would have to come out of Holt's (and the other owners') pocket?

If that's that case, then Scola is probably going to remain pissed off. :(


That means all the Spurs can contribute is $300K (I thought it was $350K).

[Marcus Bryant]

The last person who demanded a trade was Derek Anderson and we all know what happened to that guy.

What has transpired makes me wonder if the Spurs aren't trying that again.

[Dex]

Either way, I understand that much.

....but where is that other 2.9 million supposed to come from? Or is that the problem?

Doesn't that essentially make any buyout over 350K impossible, or is the player expected to pony up the rest?

[Kori Ellis]

is the player expected to pony up the rest?

Yes. That's why he needs to be paid enough to cover it.

[ChumpDumper]

It becomes part of the salary negotiations.

[Dex]

Dumb. :(

[clubalien]

The last person who demanded a trade was Derek Anderson and we all know what happened to that guy.
I know what happened we lost one of the best shooters of all time in Steve kerr

who will we lose this time

[timvp]

To me, it seems like the Spurs thought that Oberto > Scola. So they had to come up with a story to try to explain it to everyone. They couldn't just come out and say that they wanted Oberto more. Now that they have this story floating around. It seems like the Spurs wanted Scola more ... but they just couldn't get him out of his contract.

Now if they try to trade him, another team will hear that the buyout is not $20M and go for it.

Typical CIA.

:smokin

[clubalien]

Either way, I understand that much.

....but where is that other 2.9 million supposed to come from? Or is that the problem?

Doesn't that essentially make any buyout over 350K impossible, or is the player expected to pony up the rest?
1:)his contract can cover it
2:)he can take a loan out
3:)he could get hired by some local car dealer or other local company <wink> <wink> for advertising their company and use that money
4:)spurs can just pull a tpup smith thing and pay him under the table


the whole 14 mill BS .. seems liek spurs are WANTING him to demand a trade

showing no loyality like they did to DA liek somone mentioned

[Kori Ellis]

Just so everyone knows, Julian hasn't talked to Scola personally since this went down -- but just his manager. Tonight or tomorrow morning he will talk to Scola personally and I'll get the actual quotes from Scola from him.

[JUUOT]

rasho or nazr packaged with scola's right option 1

or

scola to Atlanta for boris diaw. can you exchange rights for players?)

[itzsoweezee]

sounds like the spurs did him dirty

[whottt]

If you ask me Scola seems like a bitch...

He bitched when we drafted him.

He bitched when RC told him he needed to improve his rebounding.

And now he's bitching because he sighed a stupid contract and his team got chintzy and we signed one of his countryment instead.

All Argentinians are not created equal and while I appreciate Scola's firey demeanor...

I have seen the guy play and he aint all that, I cannot stress this strongly enough, he aint all that...and he bitches too much.

Kick his ass to the curb and sign guys that want to be a Spur instead.

And anyone that knows me knows that I don't have any problem ripping the Spurs MGMT for stupid offseason manuevers...

Well I stand with them totally on this one...and I don't think this guy will be that good in the NBA...and I don't think he's got a good attitude to play for this team.

If he thinks RC was getting on his ass by merely asking him where's the rebounding...

He's in for a rude awakening when Pop gets hold of him...

Pop rips Duncan and Manu...you can damn sure bet Scola is going to get ripped if his rebounding isn't there...and I don't think he'll be able to handle it.

He's a headache...trade him...trade him right now.

And on top of that he choked in the Euroleague finals.


I like Oberto much better and I always have...

[T Park]

so what if it is.

Who gives a shit.

[Kori Ellis]

sorry people, but this 14mil buyout is complete bullshit


I don't think it's complete bullshit. That's the amount of the original buyout. And as the E-N said, it was thought that buyout would decrease over time. But the discrepancy in the reports comes in here ..

Was Tau being hard about it and insisting on the original 14M because of the first round vs second round loophole?

Or did they negotiate it down to the reported 3.2M and the Spurs just didn't want to bite?

We might never know.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

spurs have stabbed luis scola in the back
lol

[hendrix]

no he's not! Scola brings twice what Oberto can bring, and without the attitude!

I've always liked Oberto better than Scola, but assumed that the option in the NBA was Scola over Oberto (age, movements, abilities).
Nevertheless, Oberto is a monster defender, a decent scorer and... experience.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

he aint all that?

if he were a Spur today you would be calling him the next Chuckster


im goign to agree with whottt. but for me its mostly bc people in here DID think he would be the next barkley.

[clubalien]

and who released this info to the media, the spurs!

fire pop

[T Park]

poor luis :rolleyes

[Marcus Bryant]

To me, it seems like the Spurs thought that Oberto > Scola. So they had to come up with a story to try to explain it to everyone. They couldn't just come out and say that they wanted Oberto more. Now that they have this story floating around. It seems like the Spurs wanted Scola more ... but they just couldn't get him out of his contract.

Now if they try to trade him, another team will hear that the buyout is not $20M and go for it.

Typical CIA.

:smokin


That's the kind of vibe I'm getting.

[T Park]

and who released this info to the media, the spurs!

fire pop

im sure they will get right on it genius.

[whottt]

he aint all that?


if he were a Spur today you would be calling him the next Chuckster


No I wouldn't...And I also wouldn't be saying a 16 and 7 guy(career high) is a 20 and 10 guy like you said.

I saw what Manu was going to be come from the first time I saw him...

I've seen Scola play and I've never thought he was going to translate well to the NBA...Some guys do, some guys don't...and I don't think Scola will.

And I've always thougth Oberto will translate to the NBA...

2 years ago and I was pushing hard for the Spurs to sign Oberto, I wanted him over Rasho.

He's(Scola) basically a scorer and he's a weak rebounder, and he's going to be defended by guys much bigger and faster in the NBA.

Remember...Rasho was once considered one of the best bigmen in Europe as well. They aren't all Sabonis.

[Marcus Bryant]

I don't think that Scola is a "bitch" as some here might say. When the Spurs make a move they also do it in such a way as to make themselves come out smelling like roses. You can go back to how Vinny Del Negro was dispatched. Or DA. Or Malik. Hell, they were prepared to let David Robinson go and make him appear like a greedy bastard in the process.

Now with Scola it looks like the Spurs are doing what they can but gosh darn it, that Tau wants a shitload of money and that ingrate Scola doesn't get it so I'm afraid we'll have to trade him to a team that'll make him happy...

[whottt]

Scola bitched the night he was drafted, about the Spurs drafting him...he said he wished he hadn't been drafted. He bitched in the Olympics when RC asked hm where his rebounding was...

Go back and watch the interview with him.

It's not like he just started bitching.

[ALVAREZ6]

Scola did get back stabbed....

I remember an article that was written around half way through the season, it might have even been by Ludden, not sure though.

It said that Scola is pretty much guaranteed to be a Spur next season....so much for that fucking shit.

[beirmeistr]

no he's not! Scola brings twice what Oberto can bring, and without the attitude!
what kind of attitude does Oberto have?

[T Park]

Once again.

Scola will get millions this year by either Tau, the Spurs, or another team.

My heart bleeds......

[itzsoweezee]

I don't think that Scola is a "bitch" as some here might say. When the Spurs make a move they also do it in such a way as to make themselves come out smelling like roses. You can go back to how Vinny Del Negro was dispatched. Or DA. Or Malik. Hell, they were prepared to let David Robinson go and make him appear like a greedy bastard in the process.

Now with Scola it looks like the Spurs are doing what they can but gosh darn it, that Tau wants a shitload of money and that ingrate Scola doesn't get it so I'm afraid we'll have to trade him to a team that'll make him happy...

yup, this organization doesn't have a problem doing not-so-nice things to its players. that's another similarity between the spurs and the patriots. but maybe that's part of the reason they're both successful.

[Marcus Bryant]

Sure, Scola bitched about the draft night results because of his deal with Tau. Getting drafted in the 2nd round wouldn't get him out of his Tau contract like getting drafted in the 1st round would've.

The Spurs are bullshitting everyone about the size of the buyout and they did so to bring in Oberto, not Scola. Now Scola is stuck playing in Europe for another season when all he wants is a shot to play in the NBA. Can't blame him for being pissed about that.

Nice of you to carry Holt Cat's water, whottt.

[clubalien]

Kidd to SA ---it is a lock
Scola to spurs guaranteed

[Marcus Bryant]

Kidd to SA ---it is a lock
Scola to spurs guaranteed


Oh, ok Dusty.

[timvp]

The only thing Scola does better than Oberto is score. That's it. And as a small power forward, scoring probably won't translate to the NBA.

Sam Clancy, who is all of 6'5 and a half, is getting huge conracts thrown at him from teams in Spain. They see him as a dominating power forward.

Oberto might be small for a starting center in the NBA, but on the Spurs he'd be playing next to Duncan. Those two upfront make the Spurs big.

[ALVAREZ6]

Now Scola is stuck playing in Europe for another season when all he wants is a shot to play in the NBA. Can't blame him for being pissed about that.

Exactly.

No other team can sign him, and I would be pissed off If I were Scola too.


If they don't sign him this summer, then they should trade him to another team. I at least wanna see him in the NBA, I was hoping the Spurs, but oh well....


Fucking Spurs and their backstabbing shit....

[whottt]

Sure, Scola bitched about the draft night results because of his deal with Tau. Getting drafted in the 2nd round wouldn't get him out of his Tau contract like getting drafted in the 1st round would've.

Tough shit...he can't control where he gets dratfted at....lots of guys want to get taken in the first round and don't...that's what way it goes...You don't hear everyone else bitching about it do you?

Most guys say they'll make everyone that passed on them regret it...this guy got pissed at the team that drafted him.

He should bitch at his agent for signing a stupid contract.


The Spurs are bullshitting everyone about the size of the buyout and they did so to bring in Oberto, not Scola. Now Scola is stuck playing in Europe for another season when all he wants is a shot to play in the NBA. Can't blame him for being pissed about that.

How do you know?

It's not just the size of the buyout...

How much do you think Scola is asking for?

What if he's asking for 4 or 5 million a year? Should we pay it?

Fuck no...




Nice of you to carry Holt Cat's water, whottt.

Marcus I used think you were just stupid...but now I think you do it intentionally.

[boutons]

If the Spurs knew the buyout was bad, then why TF did they bother to draft him?

If they didn't know the buyout was so high, then the Spurs fucked up.

If the buyout is really the smaller number and the Spurs knew it, then drafting a guy but keeping him out of the NBA is pretty shitty. The Spurs will go on whatever, but Scola's career is slipping away.

Will the full story ever be known?

[Cant_Be_Faded]

Scola did get back stabbed....

I remember an article that was written around half way through the season, it might have even been by Ludden, not sure though.

It said that Scola is pretty much guaranteed to be a Spur next season....so much for that fucking shit.


its no big deal man. i never saw us bringing in scola anyways. honestly i never heard much of oberto either, but you can't teach size man.

at least manu is still on the team :king

[Mr. Body]

If all this is true about the Spurs' trickery, all of a sudden I am remarkably disappointed in the team's management and leadership. I cannot believe they would lie like this in order to 1) juke a player who badly wants to play in the NBA, or 2) juke other teams in the NBA. Up until this point they have been as up-front and honest an organization as I have seen in professional sports, but this duplicity is sickening. It's craven and dishonest and I hope it's not true. Whether Scola ever comes or not - and now it looks like 'never' - I truly hope the Spurs are in no way equal to what is insinuated in this thread.

[Marcus Bryant]

Well, it turns out the buyout isn't as big as the Spurs said it was. Now you would think they would know exactly what it was if they were so intent in bringing him over this summer.

whottt, you are one dumb motherfucker. Go watch one of your WWF DVDs.

[timvp]

Scola was drafted in the 50's. Even if he doesn't make it to the team until he's 30, it'd still be an outstanding pick.

Spurs fans are pretending that the Spurs had their pick of all-stars and went with Scola.

[whottt]

Exactly.

No other team can sign him, and I would be pissed off If I were Scola too.


If they don't sign him this summer, then they should trade him to another team. I at least wanna see him in the NBA, I was hoping the Spurs, but oh well....


Fucking Spurs and their backstabbing shit....


Don't cry for Scola Argentina...

We'll trade his fucking ass as soon we can find someone willing to take a guy showing signs of being a cancer before he's ever played a game in the NBA.

I think we should send him to Detroit so he and Carlos Delfino can form the bitch squad.

And he won't get a second of PT under Brown either....then he'll see where his bitching got him.

[Marcus Bryant]

If all this is true about the Spurs' trickery, all of a sudden I am remarkably disappointed in the team's management and leadership. I cannot believe they would lie like this in order to 1) juke a player who badly wants to play in the NBA, or 2) juke other teams in the NBA. Up until this point they have been as up-front and honest an organization as I have seen in professional sports, but this duplicity is sickening. It's craven and dishonest and I hope it's not true. Whether Scola ever comes or not - and now it looks like 'never' - I truly hope the Spurs are in no way equal to what is insinuated in this thread.

Huh? How long have you been watching the Spurs operate?

[whottt]

Well, it turns out the buyout isn't as big as the Spurs said it was. Now you would think they would know exactly what it was if they were so intent in bringing him over this summer.

whottt, you are one dumb motherfucker. Go watch one of your WWF DVDs.


You need to change your name to NBAMarcus...with your stupid conspiracies...

[Marcus Bryant]

Scola was drafted in the 50's. Even if he doesn't make it to the team until he's 30, it'd still be an outstanding pick.

Spurs fans are pretending that the Spurs had their pick of all-stars and went with Scola.


True. I think the Spurs wanted to get Oberto over here first and they only had room for either Oberto or Scola, not both, this summer. Oberto's deal was a little larger than what most in this forum expected. His price probably was a factor in this as well.

The Spurs don't have much room for a 4 on the bench now. They seem likely to move either Nazr or Rasho within the year so there was some room for a 5.

In a year or two with Horry fading or gone it will be Scola's time and that buyout will suddenly be immaterial.

[Marcus Bryant]

You need to change your name to NBAMarcus...with your stupid conspiracies...

DA. Spurs wouldn't offer him a guaranteed 6 years though that was clearly his market price. They were dicking him around with all kinds of non-guaranteed and partially guaranteed year scenarios and forced him to go elsewhere. They never wanted him back in the first place. DA complained about it and the Spurs deflected plenty of heat for losing a player of his talent for SSmith's soon to be expiring contract.

They've done shit like that again and again.

[T Park]

Spurs fans are pretending that the Spurs had their pick of all-stars and went with Scola.

exactly right.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

Right in the back. http://www.diakrisis.org/images/backstabbing.jpg

[Mr. Body]

Huh? How long have you been watching the Spurs operate?

A really long time. They've always been one of the most direct franchises in dealing with players. Malik knew he was on the trading block - no surprise when he went. They didn't lie to Malone, saying they couldn't promise playing time. When did they ever backstab a player like they're doing to Scola? It's one reason they have, until this point, been widely respected with players, is because they don't fib, cajole, lie, and cheat.

[Solid D]

Will the full story ever be known?

It most certainly isn't known at this point.

Too many Judge Judy's in here pounding their gavels without hearing anything other than an Ole reporter's comments.

[Marcus Bryant]

A really long time. They've always been one of the most direct franchises in dealing with players. Malik knew he was on the trading block - no surprise when he went. They didn't lie to Malone, saying they couldn't promise playing time. When did they ever backstab a player like they're doing to Scola? It's one reason they have, until this point, been widely respected with players, is because they don't fib, cajole, lie, and cheat.

Anderson, Derek.
Del Negro, Vinny.
Robinson, David.
Rose, Malik.

On and on and on. The Spurs will make anyone look like a greedy bastard if it suits their purposes. Luis Scola may just be the next.

[spurschick]

Scola needs to be patient - he's only 25. My question is... did the Spurs fill him full of promises, or did he get caught up in his own media hype that led him to believe he was a lock to go to the Spurs? I know that the Spurs wanted him, but this is a business and things can change very quickly. If Scola is smart, he'll take the opportunity to develop further.

[whottt]

In a year or two with Horry fading or gone it will be Scola's time and that buyout will suddenly be immaterial.


But Luis doesn't want to play for the Spurs, he wants to be traded and pout...


If a guy says he wished your team hadn't draft him and says he wants to be traded, you fucking trade him...and that's it.

And he's also shown a thin skin about being criticized.

This guy is not a Spur...trade his fucking ass now.

[TheTruth]

In POP (and RC) I trust.

For all of you that are feeling bad for Scola, you need to realize that this is a business. Maybe the Spurs did do Scola wrong, but I won't give two damns when I'm celebrating back to back next spring. If Scola was everything the media and us made him out to be he would be playing with the Spurs summer league team right now. The Spurs will make a move with him this summer and it WILL work out in the Spurs favor. It's easy as that.

[TheTruth]

Anderson, Derek.
Del Negro, Vinny.
Robinson, David.
Rose, Malik.

On and on and on. The Spurs will make anyone look like a greedy bastard if it suits their purposes. Luis Scola may just be the next.
Take Malik off that list. The Spurs made him a lot more money than he ever deserved.

[T Park]

Anderson, Derek.
Del Negro, Vinny

2 losers that didn't mean shit.

Good riddance.

Stop defending those fuckfaces Bryant.

[usckk]

They also back stabbed Kerr and Elliot.

[Marcus Bryant]

Assuming the Spurs are intent on bringing Scola over in the future...

Oberto is 30 and fills a greater need (once Rasho or Nazr is moved or lost) at the 5 than Scola does at the 4 for the upcoming year. Oberto is also 30 and this is probably the last time he could be brought over without being locked up long term in Europe. So the Spurs opt to go with Oberto now and wait on Scola. But since the hype about Scola has gotten out, they needed a good cover story. What better than being a bit erroneous about the size of the buyout?

Scola doesn't go anywhere in the NBA that the Spurs don't want him to go. He has to deal with them. So they can keep him or if they think he's overrated, they move him and perhaps another team will find out the buyout issue wasn't that great.

Think about it, the Spurs will probably want Scola's rights to be a valuable trade asset. You don't want teams thinking that the Spurs brought in Oberto because they rated him higher than Scola. So you concoct a bullshit rumor about the buyout as your cover story.

[Marcus Bryant]

But Luis doesn't want to play for the Spurs, he wants to be traded and pout...


If a guy says he wished your team hadn't draft him and says he wants to be traded, you fucking trade him...and that's it.

And he's also shown a thin skin about being criticized.

This guy is not a Spur...trade his fucking ass now.


He wanted to play for the Spurs. They are fucking him around because they wanted Oberto in here first.

[Mr. Body]

Anderson, Derek.
Del Negro, Vinny.
Robinson, David.
Rose, Malik.

I admit I don't remember the Del Negro deal, but big deal. He was turned loose and knocked around the league just fine.

How in the world did they mistreat Rose?

Didn't mistreat Derek Anderson, either. The guy was a little weenie bitch and demanded a trade himself. Not clear what you mean by this.

The only questionable one is the David Robinson deal, and I don't think the history kept on this on Spurs message board is correct. Yes, there was a deft and questionable movement toward acquiring Webber, and yes, it looks tremendously fishy in its treatment of Robinson. But DRob quickly forgave and played well with the team from then on. The only reason there's distance between Robinson and the team now is because he's not really a basketball guy, in the end.

[Marcus Bryant]

Take Malik off that list. The Spurs made him a lot more money than he ever deserved.

They turned him into a malcontent and whipping boy because of that contract.

[TheTruth]

I don't think Scola plays a second in the Silver and Black. Tough to play for a franchise that you feel "betrayed" you. Marcus is 100% right. Scola will be traded this summer when his fetching price will be at its highest. Spurs FO is the Tits.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

He wanted to play for the Spurs. They are fucking him around because they wanted Oberto in here first.


They wanted Oberto first???? Oh boy! Oberto!

http://www.oberto.com/_img/home/bag_of_jerky.jpg

[Mr. Body]

They also back stabbed Kerr and Elliot.

Trading a player is not backstabbing, no matter how unexpected it may be. Ruining a guy's chance of playing in the NBA for the time being and/or misrepresenting him to the national and local media... that's backstabbing.

[TheTruth]

How have the Spurs backstabbed Scola? By helping keep his Hype up by not admitting they just like Oberto better?

[Marcus Bryant]

I admit I don't remember the Del Negro deal, but big deal. He was turned loose and knocked around the league just fine.

How in the world did they mistreat Rose?

Didn't mistreat Derek Anderson, either. The guy was a little weenie bitch and demanded a trade himself. Not clear what you mean by this.

See above. The "offer" they made to him was laughable. But they did it knowing full well he could get something better elsewhere. Pop certainly played the part and made it look as though DA was the one being unreasonable, when clearly they didn't want him back and wanted him to go out and find the Spurs a sign and trade deal.

DA looks like a bitch, the Spurs get something back for him and something that suited their long term aims, which was cap flexibility in the 2003 offseason.




The only questionable one is the David Robinson deal, and I don't think the history kept on this on Spurs message board is correct. Yes, there was a deft and questionable movement toward acquiring Webber, and yes, it looks tremendously fishy in its treatment of Robinson. But DRob quickly forgave and played well with the team from then on. The only reason there's distance between Robinson and the team now is because he's not really a basketball guy, in the end.

The Spurs offered him a vet minimum contract in 2001 and then forced him to go public with a threat to play elsewhere (NY or Houston) in order to drum up support for the Spurs to re-sign him while they courted Webber. Since DRob is close to God in San Antonio that one backfired on the Spurs a little bit.

[usckk]

I still wonder if any other teams offered Oberto more money. Maybe he just wanted to play for the SPurs, alongside Manu.

[whottt]

He wanted to play for the Spurs. They are fucking him around because they wanted Oberto in here first.

Wrong...he did not want to play for the Spurs...he never wanted to play for the Spurs...not from the time he was drafted. He's bitched about nearly every time I have seen him interviewed.

And I'll be damned if I am willing to let my team get fucked up appeasing a hot tempered Argentinian with an overinflated opinion of himself...

And I gurantee you that if the Spurs are having second thoughts about Scola...one of the major reasons is his mouth.

You just don't know what the fuck you are talking about...you need to go look at what Scola said the night he was drafted, you need to look at what he said during the Olympics last year...and you need to look at what this guy thinks his reaction will be. I think this guy is right...

If he doesn't want to be a Spur then fuck him.

There are two types of Argentinians I have noticed...the articulate, smart and charismatic team players who know not to say stupid stuff...and the hot tempered divisive ones that spout off as rookies that haven't done shit.

I have already made up my mind which one Scola is and I totally understand why the Spurs have doubts about him...

Vaya Con Dios Cabeza Caliente

[TheTruth]

shit would have really hit the fan if DRob didn't end his career with the Spurs.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

Classic Thread :tu

[Marcus Bryant]

In re the DA removal...

The Spurs were offering something like $42 million over 6 years, but only $28 mil or so was guaranteed. I believe the 6th year was non-guaranteed and the 5th year was partially guaranteed. It was pretty ridiculous, considering that most deals in the NBA are usually fully guaranteed over the life of the contract. But, the Spurs were able to go to the public and claim that they were offering him $42 million and that wasn't enough for that greedy little bastard.

San Antonio bought that story, hook, line and sinker.

[BigDiggyD]

As I read everyone’s comments on this thread here are the things that cross my mind. See if you can tell which ones have just a pinch of sarcasm.

1) Is Johnny Ludden the voice of the Spurs? Nowhere in the article does it say that the SPURS told him the buyout was 14.5 million. All it says is that was the original agreement. It does not say what his source was. Once a source is sighted that is a Spur or a Spurs official comes out and says it will I believe that came from a Spurs official.

2) Poor Luis Scola for agreeing to sign a 10 year contract with TAU with either a 14.5 million or 3.2 buyout clause. I cannot believe a team would force him at gunpoint to do something like that... just horrible.

3) Poor Spurs for wasting such a valuable pick as the 3rd to the LAST pick in the draft. I feel that any pick at that level should be an All Star or they might as well have used it on a box of Tic Tacs.

4) Oberto is better than Scola because he either cost 3.2 or 14.5 million less than Scola with the odds of their contribution to the team being quite similar.

[Mr. Body]

whottt on this topic is really annoying. I wish he'd shut his hate.

Marcus Bryant... how exactly have you proven the Spurs FO is this underhanded, scheming, manipulative, boiler room den of corruption? I see them 1) not wanting to resign DA (big fucking deal). And 2) being really weird and mean with the Robinson situation. I grant the second. But: 1) Robinson clearly was fine with it thereafter; 2) the league generally views the team as unequalled in personel treatment. In all this, the Scola situation looks really bad.

[whottt]

Drob's comments and reactions were justified as the franchise savior...Scola's aren't.

Spurs fans wanted Drob kept here and signed even if he spent all year on the DL and never played another game for us...DRob hard earned it and the Spurs were out of line.

They most definitely are not out of line on this one.

You don't dictate where you get drafted or when and how the team should bring you over...and if they tell you you need to work on your rebounding to make it in the NBA, you shut the fuck up about it and work on your rebounding...especially if the team telling you that has one of the smartest FO's in the NBA and has won 2 titles.

I definitely stand with the Spurs 100% on this one as does anyone who has read Scola's comments since the Spurs drafted him.

I've listened to this guy enough...trade his ass ASAP.

I don't want him on my team...and all you Scola fans can get the fuck off and go follow him to his new team.

[TheTruth]

There are two types of Argentinian's I have noticed...the articulate, smart and charismatic team players who know not to say stupid stuff...and the hot tempered divisive ones...
That my friend would characterize the human race.

[beirmeistr]

If the Spurs knew the buyout was bad, then why TF did they bother to draft him?

If they didn't know the buyout was so high, then the Spurs fucked up.

If the buyout is really the smaller number and the Spurs knew it, then drafting a guy but keeping him out of the NBA is pretty shitty. The Spurs will go on whatever, but Scola's career is slipping away.

Will the full story ever be known?
Where is Robert Stack when you need him?

[Marcus Bryant]

Look at how they operate. They are not squeaky clean.

Effectiveness is another story. I'm glad for the most part with their decisionmaking, but let's not pretend that they have always been on the up and up publicly or with certain players.

[itzsoweezee]

Wrong...he did not want to play for the Spurs...he never wanted to play for the Spurs...not from the time he was drafted. He's bitched about nearly every time I have seen him interviewed.

And I'll be damned if I am willing to let my team get fucked up appeasing a hot tempered Argentinian with an overinflated opinion of himself...

And I gurantee you that if the Spurs are having second thoughts about Scola...one of the major reasons is his mouth.

You just don't know what the fuck you are talking about...you need to go look at what Scola said the night he was drafted, you need to look at what he said during the Olympics last year...and you need to look at what this guy thinks his reaction will be. I think this guy is right...

If he doesn't want to be a Spur then fuck him.

There are two types of Argentinians I have noticed...the articulate, smart and charismatic team players who know not to say stupid stuff...and the hot tempered divisive ones that spout off as rookies that haven't done shit.

I have already made up my mind which one Scola is and I totally understand why the Spurs have doubts about him...

Vaya Con Dios Cabeza Caliente


well give this motherfu*ker a phD in anthropolgy. he's figured out the argentinian psyche simply by watching tv interviews of basketball players.

[Mark in Austin]

They turned him into a malcontent and whipping boy because of that contract.


yeah. It's not Malik's fault he was a malcontent and whipping boy. You're generally an intelligent guy. It blows me away how completely you are missing the boat on this issue.

[TheTruth]

whottt on this topic is really annoying. I wish he'd shut his hate.

Marcus Bryant... how exactly have you proven the Spurs FO is this underhanded, scheming, manipulative, boiler room den of corruption? I see them 1) not wanting to resign DA (big fucking deal). And 2) being really weird and mean with the Robinson situation. I grant the second. But: 1) Robinson clearly was fine with it thereafter; 2) the league generally views the team as unequalled in personel treatment. In all this, the Scola situation looks really bad.
HOW IS IT BAD ON THE SPURS? They like Oberto more than they like Scola. SO THEY SIGNED OBERTO!! The 14 mil buyout rumor may have been started by someone with the Spurs, but that is only to make it seem that they are not down on Scolas playing ability. That helps him if he needs to find a team in the future, and it helps the Spurs if they want to move him.

[whottt]

well give this motherfu*ker a phD in anthropolgy. he's figured out the argentinian psyche simply by watching tv interviews of basketball players.

STFU Marcus and get help.

[Marcus Bryant]

That's not me, whottt.

[SequSpur]

This ain't the Clippers.

The Spurs are Champs. Should've won the last fucking seven championships but thanks to Pop and his clones, they didn't.

I say fuck Scola. If he wants to join a championship team, he should take the fucking loss, buy out his own deal and accept whatever they give him or.....

stay the fuck over there.

The Spurs should just keep his second rounds rights and tell him to screw off.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

pretty much


I still can't believe we drafted a player we can't use


chill bro it happens all the time, he was our last pic, happens with most last pics

this guy has just been hyped up because his team won the olympics and alot of posters here are argentinian

[TheTruth]

This ain't the Clippers.

The Spurs are Champs. Should've won the last fucking seven championships but thanks to Pop and his clones, they didn't.

I say fuck Scola. If he wants to join a championship team, he should take the fucking loss, buy out his own deal and accept whatever they give him or.....

stay the fuck over there.

The Spurs should just keep his second rounds rights and tell him to screw off.
Preach it brother.

[Marcus Bryant]

As I read everyone’s comments on this thread here are the things that cross my mind. See if you can tell which ones have just a pinch of sarcasm.

1) Is Johnny Ludden the voice of the Spurs? Nowhere in the article does it say that the SPURS told him the buyout was 14.5 million. All it says is that was the original agreement. It does not say what his source was. Once a source is sighted that is a Spur or a Spurs official comes out and says it will I believe that came from a Spurs official.

Ludden is the mouthpiece for the Spurs. If he didn't play along, he would get zero scoops. If he became antagonistic then the result is O'Keeffe, Kevin.




2) Poor Luis Scola for agreeing to sign a 10 year contract with TAU with either a 14.5 million or 3.2 buyout clause. I cannot believe a team would force him at gunpoint to do something like that... just horrible.


That's what the Spurs would like you to believe.




3) Poor Spurs for wasting such a valuable pick as the 3rd to the LAST pick in the draft. I feel that any pick at that level should be an All Star or they might as well have used it on a box of Tic Tacs.

Expectations have risen for Spur 2nd round picks due to Ginobili, Manu.




4) Oberto is better than Scola because he either cost 3.2 or 14.5 million less than Scola with the odds of their contribution to the team being quite similar.

The jury is out on that one until both show how well their game translates to the NBA. Oberto's bigger but his shooting touch is lacking somewhat. For whatever reason, the Spurs went with Oberto this summer. My guess is that it is because this was the last time he was willing to come over and because they could put Scola on hold for another year.

[spurschick]

Just so everyone knows, Julian hasn't talked to Scola personally since this went down -- but just his manager. Tonight or tomorrow morning he will talk to Scola personally and I'll get the actual quotes from Scola from him.

I just thought I would bring up what Kori said. The guy didn't talk directly to Scola, so we don't know if he's really pissed or not.

[weebo]

Hey, I'm not worried. We still have Brent Barry.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

jesus marcus he was a late pick man, you've been had by all the hype

[SequSpur]

Luis is unnecessary.

[Marcus Bryant]

jesus marcus he was a late pick man, you've been had by all the hype


eh?

[BigDiggyD]

pretty much


I still can't believe we drafted a player we can't use

Homework assignment for you. Find out what percentage of 2nd rounders in the bottom half of the draft

a) Make a team
b) Start
c) Make the all star team
d) Receive a post season award

[TheTruth]

The jury is out on that one until both show how well their game translates to the NBA. Oberto's bigger but his shooting touch is lacking somewhat. For whatever reason, the Spurs went with Oberto this summer. My guess is that it is because this was the last time he was willing to come over and because they could put Scola on hold for another year.
The Spurs brought over they think will help them win now. If the Spurs thought Scola would bring more to the table than Oberto he would be a Spur right now. Nothing more to it.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

eh?


ginobili is god is probably taller than scola

big f'n deal its not like we expected this guy to be an immediate impact player....he was destined for like 10 mins a game

[Kori Ellis]

I just thought I would bring up what Kori said. The guy didn't talk directly to Scola, so we don't know if he's really pissed or not.

Oh I believe he's pissed. I've talked to both Julian and another Argentine reporter (right now on the phone) and they both have said the same thing (they've both talked to his manager). But even Julian said on the radio that maybe he's just pissed initially but after he cools down, he'll see it differently.

[TheTruth]

Homework assignment for you. Find out what percentage of 2nd rounders in the bottom half of the draft

a) Make a team
b) Start
c) Make the all star team
d) Receive a post season award
Oh, how one man(U) can raise expectations.

[Marcus Bryant]

Um I'm not saying he was going to be anything in the NBA. I'm just explaining how the Spurs operate to those who are having a problem with the Spurs not bringing in Scola.

I have no problem in Oberto before Scola.

[SequSpur]

The Spurs brought over they think will help them win now. If the Spurs thought Scola would bring more to the table than Oberto he would be a Spur right now. Nothing more to it.


Not if the buyout was 3 mill.

Aren't they allowed to only spend 350K?

WTF?

Its Scola's responsibility to fulfill his fucking contract, not the Spurs.

The Spurs did what they had to do to move the fuck on. Champions don't wait. They build and everybody else follows.

Da Spurs.

[SequSpur]

The Spurs have never been good negotiaters anyway.

Manu got fucked with his deal.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

Um I'm not saying he was going to be anything in the NBA. I'm just explaining how the Spurs operate to those who are having a problem with the Spurs not bringing in Scola.

I have no problem in Oberto before Scola.

you sound pissed off, like the aggies just lost to baylor or something

[spurschick]

Oh I believe he's pissed. I've talked to both Julian and another Argentine reporter (right now on the phone) and they both have said the same thing (they've both talked to his manager). But even Julian said on the radio that maybe he's just pissed initially but after he cools down, he'll see it differently.

Now that I believe. I'm sure he really had his hopes up and it's a huge let down. I don't think it's reason for people to be saying we should trade his rights.

[manubili]

I've watched both play, during World Championship 2002, Pre-Olimpics and in Greece.

I slightly prefer Oberto over Scola.

Though I must admit I hadn't watched the euroleague.

One of the reasons a prefer Fabrizio is his attitude. Oberto is closer to the Manu attitude. He´s loyal, and his enthusiasm is contagious. Scola had the chance to show off in the Olimpics just because Oberto was injured by Marbury.

After all, Scola is a fckn "porteño"! like me! We are all cocky bastards!

Bad move from the spurs, though...

[Marcus Bryant]

The Spurs defer Scola joining the team for a year and they get bigman help from abroad anyways.

They still have Scola's rights and apparently the buyout is much more reasonable than the $14.5 mil figure. So either they'll have a badass player joining the team in a year or two or they'll have a valuable trade asset if he's as good as he's been hyped.

No problems here.

[TheTruth]

Not if the buyout was 3 mill.

Aren't they allowed to only spend 350K?

WTF?

Its Scola's responsibility to fulfill his fucking contract, not the Spurs.

The Spurs did what they had to do to move the fuck on. Champions don't wait. They build and everybody else follows.

Da Spurs.
Scola would have had no problem paying off his buyout with the contract Oberto got.

[Marcus Bryant]

you sound pissed off, like the aggies just lost to baylor or something


You can't figure me out, just like Texas can't figure out OU. Now stay on subject, if you can handle that.

[Kori Ellis]

Scola would have had no problem paying off his buyout with the contract Oberto got.

True ... if the buyout is $3.2M and not $14.5M.

[TheTruth]

he got what his market value was at the time


plus Manu was extremely happy when he signed it
Manu is a whole different kind of person than 99% of the human race. He would have take 2 bucks to come over here to prove he is the best player on the planet.

[SequSpur]

Scola would have had no problem paying off his buyout with the contract Oberto got.

Obviously someone did have a problem. Somebody was draggin ass and the 2005 NBA Champion Spurs moved the fuck on like a steam roller.

Its about time.

Scola needs to take the minimum 2 year deal with a team option and then prove himself against NBA talent in a 110 game season.

We'll see.

[timvp]

what's the source that it was 14.5mil?

Are you alive?

[Kori Ellis]

what's the source that it was 14.5mil?

Johnny Ludden - who gets his info directly from the Spurs.

[TheTruth]

what's the source that it was 14.5mil?
The CIA.

[picnroll]

In re the DA removal...

The Spurs were offering something like $42 million over 6 years, but only $28 mil or so was guaranteed. I believe the 6th year was non-guaranteed and the 5th year was partially guaranteed. It was pretty ridiculous, considering that most deals in the NBA are usually fully guaranteed over the life of the contract. But, the Spurs were able to go to the public and claim that they were offering him $42 million and that wasn't enough for that greedy little bastard.

San Antonio bought that story, hook, line and sinker.
Looks like the Spurs had DA's true value pretty well pegged, maybe even would have overpayed at what they were offering.

Please, please somebody abuse me the way Malik got abused by the Spurs. Guy got his contrract and all of a sudden decided he was Charles Barkley.

That said 99% of us would be PO'd if we were Scola. But that's the way the game's played. Best the Spurs could do for him is try to get fair trade value for his rights if anyone were willing to give up a trade or pick the Spurs thought reasonable.

[Marcus Bryant]

So the Spurs were wrong about the buyout? Imagine that!

[Kori Ellis]

The reason that I don't think the Spurs/Ludden are lying about the $14.5M buyout is because that buyout would make his rights very difficult to trade. So if they are trying (or going to try) to trade his rights, why would would they spread the misinformation of that jacked price? So there has to be some truth to it.

[Marcus Bryant]

The Spurs made Malik into a malcontent for no other reason than they wanted his contract gone.

He got his market value back in 2002. Would any of you have been happy if he ended up with the Lakers the year after they bounced the Spurs from the postseason for the 2nd time?

Fuck no.

Were you happy when Malik played a significant part in the Spurs winning two championships?

Fuck yes.

Enough already.

[whottt]

Now that I don't think it's reason for people to be saying we should trade his rights.

The reporter that knows him said he will want to be traded. I think that reporter is right, based on the comments he made the night he got drafted.

[Marcus Bryant]

The reason that I don't think the Spurs/Ludden are lying about the $14.5M buyout is because that buyout would make his rights very difficult to trade. So if they are trying (or going to try) to trade his rights, why would would they spread the misinformation of that jacked price? So there has to be some truth to it.


Probably the buyout was at $14.5 mil initially back in 1997 or whenever. So there was a grain of truth surrounded by a bodyguard of lies.

That leads me to believe that the Spurs want to bring him over eventually. But the time for Oberto was now. They can simply wait on Scola.

[whottt]

The Spurs made Malik into a malcontent for no other reason than they wanted his contract gone.

He got his market value back in 2002. Would any of you have been happy if he ended up with the Lakers the year after they bounced the Spurs from the postseason for the 2nd time?

Fuck no.

Were you happy when Malik played a significant part in the Spurs winning two championships?

Fuck yes.

Enough already.



The Spurs never portrayed Malik as a malcontent....

[timvp]

Bottomline is Oberto > Scola. I've always thought that. Spurs got the better player for the money that they would have given Scola.

Notice how the Spurs sign Oberto for three seasons and at the same time say that Scola's contract is for three more years. To me, it looks like they will go with Oberto for now while they try to trade Scola. If they don't find a team out there dying for him, they'll just wait out the three years and bring in a 28 year old player with a chip on his shoulder.

By that time, the landscape for the Spurs will be different and make more sense to bring in Scola.

1. Horry will be retired.
2. Rasho will be traded.
3. Duncan will be even more of a center.

By that time, Scola will be one of the best European players ever. The Spurs can bring him in and give him a huge role.

It works out for everyone involved, in theory.

[Marcus Bryant]

The Spurs never portrayed Malik as a malcontent....


:lol Yeah, right.

[whottt]

Probably the buyout was at $14.5 mil initially back in 1997 or whenever. So there was a grain of truth surrounded by a bodyguard of lies.

That leads me to believe that the Spurs want to bring him over eventually. But the time for Oberto was now. They can simply wait on Scola.


And this if fucking stupid...

It's right there with thinking Devin was going to get a 15 million dollar contract and wanting Jason Kidd at the max instead of Manu and Parker...

The next time you think you know something remember those two things.

[Marcus Bryant]

Bottomline is Oberto > Scola. I've always thought that. Spurs got the better player for the money that they would have given Scola.

Notice how the Spurs sign Oberto for three seasons and at the same time say that Scola's contract is for three more years. To me, it looks like they will go with Oberto for now while they try to trade Scola. If they don't find a team out there dying for him, they'll just wait out the three years and bring in a 28 year old player with a chip on his shoulder.

By that time, the landscape for the Spurs will be different and make more sense to bring in Scola.

1. Horry will be retired.
2. Rasho will be traded.
3. Duncan will be even more of a center.

By that time, Scola will be one of the best European players ever. The Spurs can bring him in and give him a huge role.

It works out for everyone involved, in theory.


Sounds about right. They didn't have Oberto's rights plus he's older. So get him in here and get the benefit of establishing tenure (for Bird Rights) now with him and you can afford to wait on the other guy who's only 25.

That seems to have been the decision.

[TheTruth]

It works out for everyone involved, in theory.
Theory can be one mean bitch.

[Marcus Bryant]

And this if fucking stupid...

It's right there with thinking Devin was going to get a 15 million dollar contract and wanting Jason Kidd at the max instead of Manu and Parker...

The next time you think you know something remember those two things.


How is it wrong, whottt? You can't seem to figure out how the Spurs operate and you sprout wood about Shane Heal and the almighty Coyote.

[picnroll]

... and now Isiah is trying to unload Malik. Good luck.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

And this if fucking stupid...

It's right there with thinking Devin was going to get a 15 million dollar contract and wanting Jason Kidd at the max instead of Manu and Parker...

The next time you think you know something remember those two things.


SCOFFED!!!!!

[TheTruth]

And this if fucking stupid...

It's right there with thinking Devin was going to get a 15 million dollar contract and wanting Jason Kidd at the max instead of Manu and Parker...

The next time you think you know something remember those two things.
Hindsight my friend..Hindsight.

[SequSpur]

All i know is if we have 3 argentineans in the city, I am fucking moving to Maine.

[Kori Ellis]

All i know is if we have 3 argentineans in the city, I am fucking moving to Maine.

Do you need helping packing? :angel

[BigDiggyD]

Ludden is the mouthpiece for the Spurs. If he didn't play along, he would get zero scoops. If he became antagonistic then the result is O'Keeffe, Kevin.

Maybe he is, maybe he isnt. I don't like to matter of factly state where something came from unless its cited on paper. He has more sources than just the Spurs and didnt state where he got it from.


Expectations have risen for Spur 2nd round picks due to Ginobili, Manu.

Which are grossly misplaced. If the bar has been raised that high for you on picks taken in the 50's then that is just an issue you have to deal with.



The jury is out on that one until both show how well their game translates to the NBA. Oberto's bigger but his shooting touch is lacking somewhat. For whatever reason, the Spurs went with Oberto this summer. My guess is that it is because this was the last time he was willing to come over and because they could put Scola on hold for another year.


Exactly, so if you were a gambling man, would you rather put 2.5 million on the team captain of the world champion Argentinian team who is close friends with Manu (can vouch for his demeanor) and has physical dimensions and attributes that have a better CHANCE to translate well into the NBA OR, assuming he was willing to make the same profit as Oberto (which is probably false), someone you will have to pay 5 or 16 million (depending on which buyout is true) to cover salary and buyout.


Ohh and on the subject of dirty things the Spurs have done to their players. How about Avery Johnson. They promised him they would take care of him in 2001 and then turned around and gave him just 8 million!! That was only like a 250% pay raise!! Ohh wait.. thats a good thing...

[timvp]

that's if Scola even wants to play for the Spurs, with all these rimors of him being pissed off and felling like he got stabbed in the back

Scola doesn't have a choice. He's stuck in Tau and he's stuck with the Spurs.

He can whine all he wants, but the Spurs hold his rights.

[TheTruth]

All i know is if we have 3 argentineans in the city, I am fucking moving to Maine.
That may be the stupidest fucking thing you have ever said.

[Mavs<Spurs]

Kori's article (from Johnny Ludden I think) talked about Scola and Oberto. It pointed out that Scola was our 2002 second round selection. But the part in bold about the buyout really confused me.

It basically said that Scola had two contracts. The buyout in his first contract was $14.5 million (hate to say it, but seems kinda dumb to sign this if you want to get to the NBA, doesn't it) based on where he was drafted in the first round . [What ???? They just said (correctly) that Scola was drafted in the second round- totally lost me at this point] Somehow, the contract was revised and made more affordable (the type of buyout that most of us were thinking of-ie something realistic). Yet, because the deal didn't specify anything about being selected in the second round, Tau officials claim that Scola must pay the original buyout price if he wants to leave for the NBA or wait until his contract expires in 3 years when the buyout is reduced to $1 million and the Spurs are limited to spending $350k based upon NBA rules on buyouts.


Is it that in the original if he had been drafted higher (like in the first round) the buyout would have been higher? But since he wasn't and the contract was revised, it was thought that his buyout would be less? Nevertheless, since Tau somehow is trying to argue that since the second contract doesn't specify second round (and a lower buyout), that the buyout from the first contract still holds. Is that even close to the idea? None of this makes any sense.
I'm not an attorney, but unless you can show why the later contract doesn't apply, it would seem like the law would give it more weight.

Why revise a contract if you don't intend to honor the revision?

Doesn't sound like Tau could win and even in arbitration, any fair arbitrator would allow the reduced buyout.

Anyways, can someone please explain all of this clearly. Thank you very much.
:fro

[Solid D]

Luis just had his good friend invited to the prom and he wasn't invited, yet. Most people would feel slighted, envious, hurt and angry all rolled into one in this situation....especially if led to believe they were going to be invited.

Negotiations can get cruel, especially when third parties like agents and team owners throw their weight around. (See Stephen Jackson, DA, maybe even Lamond Murray).

[TheTruth]

Negotiations can get cruel, especially when third parties like agents and team owners throw their weight around. (See Stephen Jackson, DA, maybe even Lamond Murray).
Lamond Murray can eat it.

[Marcus Bryant]

Maybe he is, maybe he isnt. I don't like to matter of factly state where something came from unless its cited on paper. He has more sources than just the Spurs and didnt state where he got it from.

When Ludden makes a statement like that it most certainly came from the front office.




Which are grossly misplaced. If the bar has been raised that high for you on picks taken in the 50's then that is just an issue you have to deal with.


Apparently you have some issues because you couldn't comprehend that I was not saying that I thought he had to live up to Manu's game, but that that Manu's fame and game has raised the bar for Spur draft picks among some parts of the fan base.




Exactly, so if you were a gambling man, would you rather put 2.5 million on the team captain of the world champion Argentinian team who is close friends with Manu (can vouch for his demeanor) and has physical dimensions and attributes that have a better CHANCE to translate well into the NBA OR, assuming he was willing to make the same profit as Oberto (which is probably false), someone you will have to pay 5 or 16 million (depending on which buyout is true) to cover salary and buyout.

I had no problem with that decision. Just pointing out that was how the decision was arrived at.




Ohh and on the subject of dirty things the Spurs have done to their players. How about Avery Johnson. They promised him they would take care of him in 2001 and then turned around and gave him just 8 million!! That was only like a 250% pay raise!! Ohh wait.. thats a good thing...

Doesn't change how the other shit went down. If you don't think it went down like that you have some issues to work out.

[SequSpur]

1+1 = 2

[SequSpur]

Luis just had his good friend invited to the prom and he wasn't invited, yet. Most people would feel slighted, envious, hurt and angry all rolled into one in this situation....especially if led to believe they were going to be invited.

Negotiations can get cruel, especially when third parties like agents and team owners throw their weight around. (See Stephen Jackson, DA, maybe even Lamond Murray).

what? is this special ed class? were you left out of the prom?

hyperbole?

comparison/contrast?

WTF?

[Sense]

I think we have the most passionate fans...
:D

[TheTruth]

I think the 14.5 mil buyout was false, and it is more around 3.5 mil.

[Kori Ellis]

themanurules --

Ludden's article is saying that the original contract (signed in 1997) had a $14.5M buyout. The contract was revised to include lower buyouts over time (but everything that was specified was stated for him being a first round pick). According to Ludden, Tau is saying that since no reductions were specified if he was a second round pick, then the original buyout applies.

[Kori Ellis]

I am merging this in with the other thread.

[Solid D]

what? is this special ed class? were you left out of the prom?

hyperbole?

comparison/contrast?

WTF?
I felt you needed some imagery...something with which you could relate and feel supported as a whole person instead of one who is ridiculed and beguiled.

[TheTruth]

what? is this special ed class? were you left out of the prom?

hyperbole?

comparison/contrast?

WTF?
you were never stood up at the prom?

[strangeweather]

The reason that I don't think the Spurs/Ludden are lying about the $14.5M buyout is because that buyout would make his rights very difficult to trade. So if they are trying (or going to try) to trade his rights, why would would they spread the misinformation of that jacked price? So there has to be some truth to it.

It's possible that the original buyout was $14.5 million, the current buyout is prorated (down to $3 million or whatever), the Spurs told Ludden that, and Ludden just messed up the details in his story. Contract details are complex, and reporters are notoriously inaccurate at getting the details into print correctly, even when they've talked directly with team capologists who know all the details.

Edited to add: it's also possible that the $3.2 million figure being reported in Argentina is actually what Scola was in the process of negotiating with Tau, but had not yet finalized.

[strangeweather]

They turned him into a malcontent and whipping boy because of that contract.

So if they won't sign someone to a contract that's too high for their real worth, the front office is mistreating the player, but if they do sign them to a contract that's too high, then recognize the obvious down the road, they're also mistreating the player? I think you're holding the FO to unreasonable standards.

[strangeweather]

Oh I believe he's pissed. I've talked to both Julian and another Argentine reporter (right now on the phone) and they both have said the same thing (they've both talked to his manager). But even Julian said on the radio that maybe he's just pissed initially but after he cools down, he'll see it differently.

If I thought I was going to the NBA, then suddenly found out I wasn't, I'd be pissed too. Hopefully you're right and he'll cool down and take a longer view of things.

[BigDiggyD]

When Ludden makes a statement like that it most certainly came from the front office.

OK.. I will just take your word for it. Then when I see a direct quote I will believe it.



Apparently you have some issues because you couldn't comprehend that I was not saying that I thought he had to live up to Manu's game, but that that Manu's fame and game has raised the bar for Spur draft picks among some parts of the fan base.

Right, hopefully you can understand that if you do not specify that you are speaking on behalf of other Spurs fans then I will assume you are speaking for yourself.



I had no problem with that decision. Just pointing out that was how the decision was arrived at.


Fair enough... that is your opinion of how it went down and I can certainly follow the logic.


Doesn't change how the other shit went down. If you don't think it went down like that you have some issues to work out.


OK.. you have compelled me to see if I can find further information on that. Its not how I remember it but I may have had my Silver and Black goggles on. Since you have clearly articulated that all of the local media is in the back pocket of the Spurs I obviously can no longer accept what they have written as having any truth to it and will need to learn to accept that how the players and their agents describe it is the true unbiased gospel.

[danyel]

All i know is if we have 3 argentineans in the city, I am fucking moving to Maine.

Someday people will realize that Sequ is the biggest troll around and will stop answering his posts.

[SequSpur]

Troll?

WTF?

Don't be pissed because you have commodores, dirt floors and no chips a hoy.

[kolko]

Kori, do you have the mp3 of it?

[Kori Ellis]

Kori, do you have the mp3 of it?

No, sorry but I'll see if I can get it.

[danyel]

Don't be pissed because you have commodores, dirt floors and no chips a hoy.

Exhibit B. Sequ the troll.

[Kori Ellis]

Exhibit B. Sequ the troll.

Don't blame Sequ too much. When you are so short that you need a booster seat to reach your keyboard, it makes you bitter. :angel

[Marhq]

If the Spurs wanted Oberto so badly all along, why didn't they bring him earlier? His buy-out was dirt cheap compared with Scola's.

[SequSpur]

Don't blame Sequ too much. When you are so short that you need a booster seat to reach your keyboard, it makes you bitter. :angel


oh know you didn't

:fro

[timvp]

If the Spurs wanted Oberto so badly all along, why didn't they bring him earlier? His buy-out was dirt cheap compared with Scola's.

This is the first time the Spurs have had free money in a while.

[beirmeistr]

Argentineans---help me out.
Who is a bigger hothead----Scola or Oberto?

[Marcus Bryant]

Right, hopefully you can understand that if you do not specify that you are speaking on behalf of other Spurs fans then I will assume you are speaking for yourself.

Um, no. It was rather obvious that I was being somewhat sarcastic. Well, at least to most.



OK.. you have compelled me to see if I can find further information on that. Its not how I remember it but I may have had my Silver and Black goggles on. Since you have clearly articulated that all of the local media is in the back pocket of the Spurs I obviously can no longer accept what they have written as having any truth to it and will need to learn to accept that how the players and their agents describe it is the true unbiased gospel.

The Spurs' offer to DA was not fully guaranteed. That's not just an assertion that was made by him and/or his agent.

Pop travelled to Hawaii and told DRob that he thought he was "done" and offered him the vet minimum (or close) and promptly chased after Webber while DRob was left hanging.

And so on. This is how the Spurs' operate. Not that I have a problem with it, but I have problem with people who want to believe that the Spurs' are pure as the driven snow when it comes to negotiations and public relations.

[smeagol]

Troll?

WTF?

Don't be pissed because you have commodores, dirt floors and no chips a hoy.
We have chips a hoy and oreos, you idiot! :lol

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

You see i knew something like this was going to happen, the Spurs really could use this guy Scola is suppose to be the next best thing. They better not let him slip through our hands.

Shawn Michaels, STFU. Last night you didn't even know what teams Oberto and Scola played for in the Olympics, you've got no room to bitch about anything.

[spurster]

True ... if the buyout is $3.2M and not $14.5M.
Or is it 2M Euros or $1.7M? I think the Spurs were tired of figuring out what the actual buyout is/will be/might be and threw out the $14M figure. After they do that, then the buyout suddenly becomes $3.2M. This is all crap now until someone shows up with a certified document of what the buyout actually is.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Psst, Marcus, you may not want to use DA as an example. Spurs kinda came out looking like they knew what they were doing on that one.

[Marcus Bryant]

Psst, Marcus, you may not want to use DA as an example. Spurs kinda came out looking like they knew what they were doing on that one.


Pssst, Dumbass, the rightness of the decision wasn't the issue. The issue was about how the Spurs operate publicly.

Fuck. Read.

[clubalien]

I can confirm the buyout was a bag of chips
thus the reason everyone wants to trade rasho for a bag of ships

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Who cares how they operated with DA? He took it into public, they responded in kind.

Sure, it was a little juvenile, but in hindsight he would have been overpaid at 28 million, let alone 42.


The reason that I don't think the Spurs/Ludden are lying about the $14.5M buyout is because that buyout would make his rights very difficult to trade. So if they are trying (or going to try) to trade his rights, why would would they spread the misinformation of that jacked price? So there has to be some truth to it.

Perhaps they were working on trading Scola's rights, then the Oberto news got released before they wanted it to, then they had to come up with a cover story about why they were trying to grab this other guy over the "best PF in Europe."

[Marcus Bryant]

Fuck man, there was a claim that the Spurs were always 'up front and honest' in this thread. I disagreed with that.

But of course, you've never gone slightly off topic in a thread before.

[Mr. Body]

Fuck man, there was a claim that the Spurs were always 'up front and honest' in this thread. I disagreed with that.

Nobody said they were squeaky clean. Everybody except you said they were far more direct and honest than a number of teams, and had a very high reputation. You make them out to be cloak and dagger scoundrels who do this stuff regularly.

[Athenea]

Whottt I never heard u before speaking bs this way. U really make yourself look misinformed to say the least.
1-Ludden's article was pure bs from top to bottom: Scola's contract ends next year, his buyout is around 2 mill euros; I didn't collect any supporting data in the Spanish media to back Ludden's info.
2-Scola can take shit and lots of it. His former coach was Dusko "Iron Fist" Ivanovic. The guy is like 2245454 Pops and the one who didn't want to play for him anymore was Oberto, not Scola. That's the main reason Oberto left Tau.
3-Scola has an ego like any other successful player but it never got in the way of his teams. He played back up to our NT even though he was better than Wolko and accepted his role. He shared locker in Tau w/a ton of offense oriented players like Macijaukas and that never causes any trouble. He is Tau's leader and a class act at it.

I'm with Marcus Bryant on this one. Spurs' FO pulled a dirty trick so far. I say "so far" coz tons of things can change in a tough negotiation like this one.
The biggest consequence would be Spurs losing Scola through trade etcetera. I think Scola will be a nice addition to any NBA team. Of course Spurs could get something in return but I see the organization benefiting more by actually using Scola on the team.
Time will tell if Scola-Spurs relationship has deteriorated to a no return point or it’s is going through a "reasonable" slump.

[Kori Ellis]

Athenea -- how do you know when Scola's contract ends for sure? (honest question) Most places I see say that he signed for 10 years in 1997.

[Marcus Bryant]

The Spurs have a rep for having an effective front office, not for having a kind and gentle one. It seems like the hugs and kisses BS notion came from the local fan base.

[Kori Ellis]

Here's just a little bit of what Julian Mozo said, for those who didn't hear it ...

http://www.woai.com/mediacenter/default.aspx?videoId=133961

[kolko]

Athenea -- how do you know when Scola's contract ends for sure? (honest question) Most places I see say that he signed for 10 years in 1997.

Look what I've found. An article of Clarin newspaper saying Scola had just signed a contract with Tau. The article's date is March 29, 1998.

http://www.clarin.com/diario/1998/03/29/r-08001d.htm

(sometimes the link doesn't work)


Que el pibe Luis Scola tiene un enorme futuro, es algo sabido. Lo que todavía no se puede predecir es hasta dónde puede llegar este ala pivote de apenas 17 años y 2,04 de altura. Al menos su proyección internacional comienza a dar pasos importantes. Como que esta tarde, a las 15, participará en el estadio Alamo de San Antonio (6.500 espectadores) en el tradicional partido entre un seleccionado de Estados Unidos y Resto del Mundo que celebra la entrada de nuevas figuras al Salón de la Fama del básquet.Fue una gran alegría que me hayan elegido, ya que esta es una gran vidriera. Estaré junto a otros chicos con mucha experiencia internacional y eso servirá de medida para mi nivel, sobre todo porque como el límite es de 20 años, voy a enfrentar a jugadores más grandes, dijo Scola, que entrenó durante toda la semana con su equipo, en Dallas. El jugador de Ferro, que durante los encuentros de entrenamiento ingresó como titular, podría quedar relegado por la incorporación del pivote holandés Daniel Gadzuric (2,10).El plantel del Resto del Mundo, integrado por varios de los mejores proyectos de Europa, se completa con Igor Rakocevic (base de 1,92; figura de la Liga yugoslava), el español Juan Navarro (base; 1,86), el portugués Joao Coehlo (base; 1,86), el griego Antonios Fotsis (alero; 2,05), el alemán Dirk Nowitzki (alero; 2,08), el lituano Darius Songala (alero; 2,04), el italiano Andrea Michelori (alero; 2,03), el australiano Matt Nielsen (alero; 2,04), el senegalés Souleymane Camara (pivote; 2,10) y el francés Jerome Moiso (pivote de 2,08 pretendido por las mejores universidades estadounidenses). El italiano Alessandro Gamba será el técnico.El basquetbol argentino sigue siendo representado en este partido, al que concurren muchos reclutadores de la NBA y de las universidades, ya que anteriormente fueron seleccionados Oberto (1995), Palladino (1996) y Victoriano (1997).Scola acaba de firmar un contrato por diez años y algo más de 3 millones de dólares con Tau Cerámica de España, equipo que en dos años, cuando el jugador obtenga la doble nacionalidad, lo incorporará a su plantel. En ese tiempo jugaré en un equipo de Segunda división y lo aprovecharé para mejorar mi tiro, ya que en España quieren utilizarme como alero, de frente al cesto, comentó el juvenil, que tiene como ídolo a Larry Bird por su inteligencia y su tiro y a Marcelo Nicola por su polifuncionalidad.Este año Scola, cuyo padre, Mario, jugó varios años en Primera e integró la Selección argentina juvenil en los años 70, afrontará el Sudamericano y el Panamericano juvenil con Argentina. Para mí es una gran experiencia jugar con la Selección. Por eso en el contrato con el Tau incluí una cláusula para que me den siempre permiso para viajar, aseguró.Pero las ilusiones de Luisito Scola no se detienen: Mi objetivo es llegar a la Selección mayor, porque es un orgullo representar al país. Pero mi sueño es llegar a la NBA. Ese es el mejor basquetbol del mundo y voy a intentar meterme allí.

[Athenea]

Athenea -- how do you know when Scola's contract ends for sure? (honest question) Most places I see say that he signed for 10 years in 1997.
I collect the info from many places like Marca, Tau's site,

http://www.elmundodeportivo.es/20050104/NOTICIA189219580.html

Los dos millones de dólares de cláusula obligarían a los Spurs a presentar a Scola un largo y jugoso contrato para que pudiera preparar un plan de financiación de su salida. Algo similar a lo que ocurrió con Pau Gasol o con el propio Andrés Nocioni.

http://marca.recoletos.es/edicion/noticia/0,2458,590139,00.html

Scola, que fue seleccionado por los Spurs en el draft de 2002 con el número 56, tiene contrato con el Tau hasta 2006, y su clausula de rescisión asciende a los 2 millones de dólares.

Some say it's till 2007, but Spanish sources r way more trustworthy than others:
http://www.terra.com.uy/canales/nba/96/96858.html

Luis Scola tiene contrato con el Tau hasta el 2007. Su desvinculación con el club sería negociada en dos millones de euros. De concretarse su incorporación al San Antonio sería compañero de Manu Ginóbili.

[AFE7FATMAN]

I have seen Scola play. I feel he may well be an all star within three years of coming to the NBA. The buyout may end up being between 3 - 4 mill Euros. but that is not a sure thing as I understand it.

Scola is a beast but for Defense, Rebounds, and Shot blocking/changing, I'll take Javakotas even though it will be another year, 2006-2007.

I would trade him for a good 3 and some 1st round pick(s), since I don't think we have any next year. Maybe we could throw him in with the forthcoming Rasho Trade. :lol

[whottt]

Whottt I never heard u before speaking bs this way. U really make yourself look misinformed to say the least.
1-Ludden's article was pure bs from top to bottom: Scola's contract ends next year, his buyout is around 2 mill euros; I didn't collect any supporting data in the Spanish media to back Ludden's info.
2-Scola can take shit and lots of it. His former coach was Dusko "Iron Fist" Ivanovic. The guy is like 2245454 Pops and the one who didn't want to play for him anymore was Oberto, not Scola. That's the main reason Oberto left Tau.
3-Scola has an ego like any other successful player but it never got in the way of his teams. He played back up to our NT even though he was better than Wolko and accepted his role. He shared locker in Tau w/a ton of offense oriented players like Macijaukas and that never causes any trouble. He is Tau's leader and a class act at it.


What do you want me to say about it Athenea?

In 2002 when we drafted him and they talked to him...

Everyone else says, I'm happy to be drafted especially by a great team like the Spurs.

Scola said: I wish I hadn't been drafted.

And I know he said this at the time. I am not misinformed.


In the Olympics when they talked to him and asked him if he looked forward to playing in the NBA with his national teamate Manu:

Most people would have said: That's great, I look forward to playing in the NBA and getting to play with Manu I am looking forward to the chance.

Scola(scowls) and says: I am not even thinking about being there.

And it was documented at the time that he was angry at RC for asking him where is the rebounding.

Now: This friend of his when asked, says:

I think he'll probably angry and probably wish to be traded.


I think his friend is right based on just about every other interview with him that I have seen.



Let him go.

I imagine you are confused because I defend Manu so strongly...well I don't defend Manu because he is Argentinian...I defend Manu because he is a great and unselfish team player who never complains and always does what is asked of him...

Manu deserves be defended like that....and Scola isn't Manu. Scola is an unproven rookie.

I am sorry, I know he is probably a national hero in Argentina but I have no loyalty this guy and I don't like the attitude I have seen from him in interviews...

If he doesn't want to be here I don't want him here.

This team never has to deal with players saying controversial things when they get mad or otherwise, it's basically a team of unselfish players who player hard and do what their coach and organization asks of them...It's one of the things I love about this team.

But now this guy...

This guy is a rookie and he's always pissed off at the Spurs...

He doesn't really want to be here...the Spurs need to trade him...he'll be happier and so will the Spurs. Why force it?

I like Oberto better...I have always liked Oberto better. He just seems more like a Spur.

[TheWriter]

Scola said: I wish I hadn't been drafted.

He thought and wanted to be drafted in the first round. When he wasn't he probably felt he rather not be drafted.

No big deal.

[Athenea]

Whottie...If u have access to Scola's interviews he is pretty consistent when asked about playing in the NBA. He said several times that "I'm playing with this team now (either Tau or NT) and I'm focused in this tournament/game/series". Normally they interview the guy during some important competition and he shows loyalty to his current team. Same goes with Oberto (who BTW is the hotter head) when he couldn't get into the NBA year after year. Sometimes is frustration doing the talk, others is political correctness and others respect for the current team/situation.
If I would 've thought that u defended Manu because of his nationality I wouldn't respect your opinion as I do.

[whottt]

Whottie...If u have access to Scola's interviews he is pretty consistent when asked about playing in the NBA. He said several times that "I'm playing with this team now (either Tau or NT) and I'm focused in this tournament/game/series". Normally they interview the guy during some important competition and he shows loyalty to his current team. Same goes with Oberto (who BTW is the hotter head) when he couldn't get into the NBA year after year. Sometimes is frustration doing the talk, others is political correctness and others respect for the current team/situation.
If I would 've thought that u defended Manu because of his nationality I wouldn't respect your opinion as I do.


Aww thanks Athenea.

Look I am just saying, he's been so hyped up that everyone thinks he's going to be a PF version of Manu...I just don't see it. You could see Manu was special the first time you saw him play...Charles Barkley saw it even when he was rookie...everyone saw it. I just don't see it with Scola so I am surprised everyone seems to think he is going to be the second coming.

I like Oberto because Oberto has always seemed like the leader of those Argentinian teams that beat team USA..he kinda reminds me of Duncan in his demeanor...maybe not the most talented guy on the team or capable of the biggest game, but also the guy who isn't going to have a bad game..the dependable one who gets his job done when it matters most. And I thought he usually had a tough assignment against team USA.


I don't think the Spurs are playing games with this...

I think if Scola is as great as everyone claims, the Spurs would want him, they said they did, they told him they did. What changed?

I think it's the Spanish team that doesn't want him to go because they lost their other two stars. That makes the most sense right?

They don't want to go from being a Euroleague Finalist to being a team with no stars...Makes sense to me.


I think they want a lot on the buyout and Scola is going to need a lot more money than he's proven he's worth to get out this season...I think the Spurs don't want to pay a guy whose never played a game in the NBA, 4 million a year. I think they are smart to do that.

[danyel]

In 2002 when we drafted him and they talked to him...

Everyone else says, I'm happy to be drafted especially by a great team like the Spurs.

Scola said: I wish I hadn't been drafted.

And you know why he said that, right?

Everyone was expecting Scola to be a lottery/first round pick. A first round rookie contract would have allowed him to pay his buyout and come the NBA right away (something similar as what Gasol did), being drafted in the second round wouldnt have allowed that, because the contract a secound round rookie gets.

Being able to sign with any team as a free agent would have allowed to get the kind of money needed to buy out his contract in Spain.

Its not like he didn't wanted to join the Spurs or anything like that, it was just that he wanted to jump to the NBA right away...


In the Olympics when they talked to him and asked him if he looked forward to playing in the NBA with his national teamate Manu:

Most people would have said: That's great, I look forward to playing in the NBA and getting to play with Manu I am looking forward to the chance.

Scola(scowls) and says: I am not even thinking about being there.

And it was documented at the time that he was angry at RC for asking him where is the rebounding.

Do you have a link? I don't remember anything like that...

Maybe he said that he wasnt thinking about that because he was in the middle of a tournament and all he was thinking was winning it? would have that been a bad thing?

When did RC said that to him? how do you know how Scola reacted?


Now: This friend of his when asked, says:

I think he'll probably angry and probably wish to be traded.


I think his friend is right based on just about every other interview with him that I have seen.


Friend? what friend? a reporter talking about what his agent said? since when that is a declaration? what were you expecting his agent to be saying? "Luis is thrilled we couldnt get to an agreement..."


This team never has to deal with players saying controversial
things

You first called him a lockeroom cancer, now you say he says controversial things, please show me when! are we even talking about the same guy?

[whottt]

And you know why he said that, right?

Everyone was expecting Scola to be a lottery/first round pick. A first round rookie contract would have allowed him to pay his buyout and come the NBA right away (something similar as what Gasol did), being drafted in the second round wouldnt have allowed that, because the contract a secound round rookie gets.

Being able to sign with any team as a free agent would have allowed to get the kind of money needed to buy out his contract in Spain.

He wasn't going to get offered that much, if teams were willing to pay the buyout they would have drafted him in the first round.


Its not like he didn't wanted to join the Spurs or anything like that, it was just that he wanted to jump to the NBA right away...

I just think saying, " I wish I hadn't been drafted" is a funny way to answer that question...I don't see many guys saying that.






Do you have a link? I don't remember anything like that...

Maybe he said that he wasnt thinking about that because he was in the middle of a tournament and all he was thinking was winning it? would have that been a bad thing?

When did RC said that to him? how do you know how Scola reacted?

Well part of it was a television interview after he won the gold medal...

He was smiling and happy until the reporter mentioned the Spurs and then he scowled at the mention of the Spurs. I can't remember what he said totally. I just know he said he wasn't thinking about the Spurs...a picture said 1000 words though.

The rest of it was an article posted here on the forum, I'll look for it.





Friend? what friend? a reporter talking about what his agent said? since when that is a declaration? what were you expecting his agent to be saying? "Luis is thrilled we couldnt get to an agreement..."

I don't expect him to be thrilled...in fact I expect him to want to be traded.




You first called him a lockeroom cancer, now you say he says controversial things, please show me when! are we even talking about the same guy?

I said he's shows signs of it and IMO, he does...I like the fact that he is firey but guys that have a temper can be divisive presences and lockerroom distractions...

I give you Delfino(and I know you will probably defend his comments but that will prove why he is a divisive presence).

I'll look for the article about the rebounding thing...

It'd be best if you could see the interview after the Olympics though. His face told the story.

[Russ]

I've always liked Oberto better than Scola, but assumed that the option in the NBA was Scola over Oberto (age, movements, abilities).
Nevertheless, Oberto is a monster defender, a decent scorer and... experience.

"Oberto is a monster defender. . ."

You just said a mouthful. Remember this is the Spurs -- and Scola is not known for his defense.

[Mavs<Spurs]

As I read everyone’s comments on this thread here are the things that cross my mind. See if you can tell which ones have just a pinch of sarcasm.

1) Is Johnny Ludden the voice of the Spurs? Nowhere in the article does it say that the SPURS told him the buyout was 14.5 million. All it says is that was the original agreement. It does not say what his source was. Once a source is sighted that is a Spur or a Spurs official comes out and says it will I believe that came from a Spurs official.

2) Poor Luis Scola for agreeing to sign a 10 year contract with TAU with either a 14.5 million or 3.2 buyout clause. I cannot believe a team would force him at gunpoint to do something like that... just horrible.

3) Poor Spurs for wasting such a valuable pick as the 3rd to the LAST pick in the draft. I feel that any pick at that level should be an All Star or they might as well have used it on a box of Tic Tacs.

4) Oberto is better than Scola because he either cost 3.2 or 14.5 million less than Scola with the odds of their contribution to the team being quite similar.

Finally, someone making some sense! :fro

[BigDiggyD]

Finally, someone making some sense! :fro

Thanks... the voice of reason is just one of the many voices in my head. The problem is I am never sure which one is actually talking. :drunk

[Mavs<Spurs]

themanurules --

Ludden's article is saying that the original contract (signed in 1997) had a $14.5M buyout. The contract was revised to include lower buyouts over time (but everything that was specified was stated for him being a first round pick). According to Ludden, Tau is saying that since no reductions were specified if he was a second round pick, then the original buyout applies.


Thank you Kori. Much clearer unfortunately.

:fro

[danyel]

I give you Delfino(and I know you will probably defend his comments but that will prove why he is a divisive presence).

Delfino is a whole different thing than Scola, I havent defend him, actually Im kinda dissapointed with his attitude. Stop assuming the way I'm going to react please, I don't like that and you don't know me that well.

[wildbill2u]

In re the DA removal...

The Spurs were offering something like $42 million over 6 years, but only $28 mil or so was guaranteed. I believe the 6th year was non-guaranteed and the 5th year was partially guaranteed. It was pretty ridiculous, considering that most deals in the NBA are usually fully guaranteed over the life of the contract. But, the Spurs were able to go to the public and claim that they were offering him $42 million and that wasn't enough for that greedy little bastard.

San Antonio bought that story, hook, line and sinker.

Derek Andersen was here for one year. Had a decent season, shooting about 41% Fg and 39% 3Pt with a 15.5 average and 3.7 APG with 2.3 TO. He has NEVER approached those figures in the next four seasons with Portland. I wouldn't say he's burned up the league as one of the premier guards.

Maybe I'm missing something here, but did we OWE this guy a big contract after one year--and would we have been happy with his play since? I mean it's not as though he personally won a Championship for us like Jax.

[wildbill2u]

Scola would have had no problem paying off his buyout with the contract Oberto got.

Assume that the figure that everyone throws around for both Oberto's salary and Scola' s buyout (who knows for sure) is around $3,000,000. Since the Spurs can only pick up $350,000, that means Scola would pick up nearly the entire amount out of his savings account or salary.

Do you think Scola would expect to pay it out of his money--or figure he coud lay it off on the Spurs contract?

How much more than $3,000,000 do you think Scola would want for his Spur contract to pay for his own buyout and for his playing wages next year--after taxes? Would he want $5,000,000? $6,000,000? More?

Do you think the Spurs would or should pay out that kind of money for an untested backup PF, looking at the wage scale of the other players?

Or is Oberto a better deal for the money?

[ChumpDumper]

As I remember, DA's last year or so was guaranteed provided he played a certain number of games each year.

Given his injury history and games played after the trade, the clause seems to be pretty justified.

[Marcus Bryant]

Derek Andersen was here for one year. Had a decent season, shooting about 41% Fg and 39% 3Pt with a 15.5 average and 3.7 APG with 2.3 TO. He has NEVER approached those figures in the next four seasons with Portland. I wouldn't say he's burned up the league as one of the premier guards.

Maybe I'm missing something here, but did we OWE this guy a big contract after one year--and would we have been happy with his play since? I mean it's not as though he personally won a Championship for us like Jax.


That's not the point. DA's market value at that point was closer to what Portland gave him than what the Spurs were offering.

The Spurs did not want him back. But they made it seem as they did. They were able to claim that they made a $42 mil offer to him even though over a quarter of it was non-guaranteed.

Look, again, for the 100th time because some of you can't seem to fucking comprehend it, I'm not saying the Spurs should've re-signed him at all. I am merely pointing out that instead of the Spurs being up front about not wanting him back, they fucked around with him and made him out to be a greedy little bastard. Sure, he helped them out big time with his bitching, but its not like the Spurs were being on the up and up.

And that's the fucking point. The Spurs have an effective front office, but some of you need to stop thinking that they are some by golly honest and pure organization.

Hell, they were ready to run DRob out of town and make him out to be the bad guy.

[Mr Dio]

The Spurs did not want him back. But they made it seem as they did

Oh brother, we have a self-proclaimed insider here.
Or is it ESP? :lol

[Marcus Bryant]

Better that than, um, you.

Of course you really believe the Spurs wanted him back. That's not surprising given your inability to think for yourself.

So do you have something to add to this forum or are you just going to waste space?

[Mr Dio]

Just noting your 'tude..Guess I was right.

Get back on track son.
Didn't mean to razz your mind so easily.

[Marcus Bryant]

Whatever's happened to your mind, I hope it never happens to mine.

[Mr Dio]

Get back on track/topic son..Try would you son? Try?

[Mr. Body]

M.Bryant just goes on his crusades every now and then. Let him go.

[Mr Dio]

I hear ya.

[Marcus Bryant]

Mr. Dio's infatuation with me continues. Sorry man, I won't let you smoke my pole.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Marcus, get used to it. He followed me a while back when I insulted him for being a wannabe t-sip.

You want to see an inferiority complex personified, crack on Dio about being a bandwagon sip.

[BigDiggyD]

That's not the point. DA's market value at that point was closer to what Portland gave him than what the Spurs were offering.

The Spurs did not want him back. But they made it seem as they did. They were able to claim that they made a $42 mil offer to him even though over a quarter of it was non-guaranteed.

Look, again, for the 100th time because some of you can't seem to fucking comprehend it, I'm not saying the Spurs should've re-signed him at all. I am merely pointing out that instead of the Spurs being up front about not wanting him back, they fucked around with him and made him out to be a greedy little bastard. Sure, he helped them out big time with his bitching, but its not like the Spurs were being on the up and up.

And that's the fucking point. The Spurs have an effective front office, but some of you need to stop thinking that they are some by golly honest and pure organization.

Hell, they were ready to run DRob out of town and make him out to be the bad guy.
OK so since you said that over 25% of the deal SA offered DA was not guaranteed and I don’t remember it that way I decided to do some searching.

So what I find is DA saying the Spurs verbally promised him a deal starting at 8 mill if he would sign the one year deal at 2.5.

We have the Spurs with a 6 year 42 million dollar offer on the table that they claim DA verbally agreed to.

We have DA upset because the last year of the deal isn’t fully guaranteed and that they were not offering maximum raises every year.

Pop says "All I know is we had an agreement on Thursday, and on Friday I was told Derek was going to Portland,"

RC Buford says "Contract negotiations in team sports happen all the time, and I'm not sure that anything here happened differently than they would most places."

So what was the deal? Some sites day the initial offer was 4/36 others say 5/36 and that Derek wanted guaranteed 6 years with the last year being a player option year. Spurs countered with 6/42 with no player option and 1.2 million in additional player incentives. Derek claims the last year wasn’t fully guaranteed. I cannot find anywhere what the specifics of FULLY guaranteed means. Maybe team option? I don’t know.

Marcus you also mentioned that the Spurs weren’t paying him what he was worth. That depends on what you mean by what he was worth. If you mean that the Spurs wouldn't pay him what Portland paid him then that is true. But if you mean that a 15-5-5 SG should have been making 8 million a year in 2001 especially when he showed signs of wearing down in March, April, and May then I say no.

So basically we have a he said - he said between the Spurs and DA - you have chosen to believe what DA and his agent Tutt say over what the Spurs say and that is fine, there isn't any real way to know which is the truth, and I happen to believe that often times the truth is somewhere in the middle.

I will say this though, DA had agreed to take WAAAY less money from Portland to leave so he no doubt legitimately felt he was wronged in some manner.

[wildbill2u]

"The Spurs did not want him back. But they made it seem as they did...I am merely pointing out that instead of the Spurs being up front about not wanting him back, they fucked around with him and made him out to be a greedy little bastard. Sure, he helped them out big time with his bitching, but its not like the Spurs were being on the up and up."

So your opinion is that the Spurs didn't want him at all, so their offer was a sham and the FO simply decided to fuck with his mind for no reason--other than they are nasty and evil management negotiators.

That's ludicrous, given the good reputation of the FO around the league amongst players and managers. You can name the players who bad mouth the Spurs on one hand. Even Malik didn't have a bad word to say about Pop or the team when he was traded.

IMHO the Spurs management works hard to have a happy team with no maligerers or carpers. If your scenario was their normal course of business, then you wouldn't have players with the loyalty that is shown to the team and the town. For a small town, we have more retired players who choose to live here rather than their hometowns than any place I know.