Tenn. teen jailed for burning U.S. flag

[Johnny_Blaze_47]

Tenn. Teen Jailed for Burning U.S. Flag

MARYVILLE, Tenn. — A teenager was jailed for nine days after being accused of burning an American flag on the Fourth of July, and he faces trial next month.

While the case could test a state statute against flag burning — an act the U.S. Supreme Court says is protected under the First Amendment — prosecutors said Andrew Elisha Staley has yet to argue that he was exercising free speech rights.

"Bottom line is, the kid got drunk," said Lisa Lee, his mother. "He's never been in trouble before."

Staley, 18, is accused of taking the flag from a residence and setting it on fire. His father said the teenager "has no reason for anger against the United States" and could easily have ignited a garbage can instead of a flag.

"He was brought up in church, and he knows right from wrong," Doc Staley said.

Doc Staley said his son has been "floundering around" since dropping out of high school. "This is where the drinking came in. And he's not very good at it," the father said.

The teenager was released from jail Thursday on his own recognizance while he awaits his Aug. 2 trial on charges of desecrating a venerated object, underage drinking, littering, evading arrest, burning personal property and theft.

The Tennessee flag-burning statute makes the crime a misdemeanor, punishable by less than a year in jail and up to $2,500 fine.

http://www.statesman.com/news/content/shared-gen/ap/National/Flag_Burning.html

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Maybe some actual discussion here...

[The Ressurrected One]

"...underage drinking, littering, evading arrest, burning personal property and theft."
Nah, it's not a waste of money unless it was the ONLY crime he committed. At least this question can be run up the legal flagpole again. If, that is, he is convicted and appeals.

For the record, I'm opposed to Constitutional Amendment because I believe free speech trumps protecting the flag.

However, people who steal and burn other people's personal property need to be prosecuted. And, those who do so recklessly and without regard for the safety of others, should be vigorously prosecuted.

[FromWayDowntown]

i just hope this doesn't turn into a Wrangle over free speech because this obviously had very little to do with free speech and a lot to do with drinking freely

If there is a First Amendment appeal, it will be based on the statute criminalizing desecration of venerated objects and the inclusion of the American flag in the definition of venerated object. Were I the prosecutor, unless I really wanted to challenge the Supreme Court's ruling on flag-burning, I'd probably drop that charge.

It's an interesting question -- the so-called flag-burning decision, Johnson v. Texas, didn't necessarily draw lines allowing courts to consider the subjective intentions of the flag burner, but in Johnson, those subjective intentions weren't in question. Here, there's a serious question about whether the kid had any subjective, free-speech intent behind his decision to burn the flag. I don't think that should matter, but it wouldn't be unheard of for a court to parse the First Amendment in that way and create a limited state power to prosecute for flag-burning where there is no subjective intent to make a political statement. I'd be surprised if that happened, though.

This, apparently, is one of the subjects that I can agree with TRO about. If you believe in free speech, I don't see how you can limit the right of individuals to make powerfully offensive, political statements. That rule would chill free speech, which would offend the First Amendment.

[ClintSquint]

http://www.joebrower.com/PHILE_PILE/PIX/FR/lee_ermey.jpg
"Stop burnin' my American Flag you idiot!"

[Marcus Bryant]

So some young drunk hick burned a flag. Great. This deserves maximum cable news coverage.

[mookie2001]

stupid

[Clandestino]

Death Penalty!

[Johnny_Blaze_47]

Death Penalty!

No Gitmo?

Why, Clan, you're loosening up...

[Vashner]

My only problem with this is that he took someone elses flag.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Well he stole someone's property, so that in itself is a crime.

As for the flag burning, he's just lucky no one was around when he did that. I probably woulda re-arranged the dumbass's face for that.

[Useruser666]

I think it's fine to burn your own flag.

[clubalien]

it is ok to burn your OWN flag like the above poster said
but when you BURN other peopels stuff here in America we call that ARISON

and for ARSON you do lots of TIME

plus he is supporting terrorism send him to gitmo j/k

[Mr Dio]

In public if he'd burned his own flag I'd support his right to do so but not the act itself.

Behind closed doors he'd have a real beating coming his way.

[jochhejaam]

It's like the baseball player who stands at home plate to watch his home run leave the park, it's legal to do it, but your probably gonna get a fastball in the ribs next at bat.

(actually the flag burning is a lot more reprehensible)

[MaNuMaNiAc]

The only reason why that story made the news was because it was the US flag he burned instead of anything else. I agree he should be punished for burning other people's property, but other than that the whole thing is just plain idiotic. So he burned a flag, WHO THE FUCK CARES!

[foodie2]

As for the flag burning, he's just lucky no one was around when he did that. I probably woulda re-arranged the dumbass's face for that.

And then, you would have been guilty of assault.

[FromWayDowntown]

And then, you would have been guilty of assault.

only if convicted -- and it's pretty unlikely that a jury would convict anyone of kicking the crap out of a flag-burner.

That's a price of free speech.

But it doesn't justify limiting the means of expression in the first place.

[Oscar DeLa]

i dont know what it is

but the county commisioner uses big words!

[Useruser666]

Well, to some the flag is a very important symbol of this country. To burn it, specifically, to burn someone else's flag could be considered a form of hate crime.

[SWC Bonfire]

Surely the source of this story is The Onion.

[MannyIsGod]

Did you ever stop and think about what patrotism is? The support of the land in which you happend to be born? I mean, did anyone here create the flag? Was anyone around at the constitutional convention?

(And before the veterens jump all over me, I'm just being obtuse to make a point)

If you want to argue that you are proud in the flag because of what it is supposed to stand for, wanting the act of burning a flag to be illegal is oxymornic if anything ever was.

I don't know, I used to think a lot more highly of patriotism, but I've almost come around to Duff's line of thinking on this. Seeing what patriotism makes possible - and how people ignore the history of nationalism and patriotism in starting wars - has really left me with a bad taste in my mouth. 9/11 on one day, flags everywhere the next, and thousands of people dead in a war the next.

[angel_luv]

My only problem with this is that he took someone elses flag.


I agree. I think freedom of speech allows for burning a flag in protest so long as it is done in an orderly, lawful fashion.


I think Manny made a very valid point when he said:
If you want to argue that you are proud in the flag because of what it is supposed to stand for, wanting the act of burning a flag to be illegal is oxymornic if anything ever was.

[Hook Dem]

http://www.joebrower.com/PHILE_PILE/PIX/FR/lee_ermey.jpg
"Stop burnin' my American Flag you idiot!"
Hey Clint! Where you been????