Blaming Pop Makes No Sense

[timvp]

I know Spurs fans have four ways of coping with defeat: 1) Blaming Bonner 2) Blaming the refs 3) Blaming small market bias 4) Blaming Pop

Since Bonner barely played, the refs were pretty damn fair and no other conspiracies make sense at this point, we're left to blame Pop as a coping mechanism. But I just don't see how it makes sense to blame him.

A) Subbing Duncan out when you're defending against three-pointers is something he's done for the last five years. And over that time, I'm willing to bet the Spurs have defended last second three-pointers better than any team in the league. It didn't work last night in the end but, damn, it took two cruel bounces (and friendly fire going for the rebounds) on the initial misses to break down the defense. This wasn't comparable to Vogel benching Hibbert because the Pacers weren't defending against three-pointers in that scenario. If the Spurs were up two points and Pop benched Duncan in that circumstance, I'd have my pitchfork in hand ........ but they weren't. You're up three, you put a lineup that can switch everything and you force a contested three-pointer. Everything worked other than the bounces off the misses.

B) Benching Parker late is something I disagreed with in real time, especially since the Spurs weren't calling timeouts to put him back in. However, after the game Parker said he was cramping up. If TP can't go, then yeah you have to take him out. Not much to complain about there.

C) You don't bench Manu Ginobili. How many times have we seen him suck for 95% of the game before coming up big at the end? He's done that so often that it's expected at this point. Manu is a player you want on your team when the going gets tough. Sure, he didn't play well last night (yeah, that's being kind) but you don't bench him. Only hindsight would tell you he should have been benched.

D) It's easy to say TD should have been force fed more in the second half. But this season, we've seen a lot of examples of 37-year-old Duncan only having the wherewithal to play great for half the game. This is far from the first time that has happened. It's possible he could have done more in the second half with more touches -- but far from assured. A more likely scenario is his historic first half used up everything he had to give -- on the offensive end especially.

Everything else is just nitpicking. If the Spurs hit one more free throw, got one good bounce, had one inch of difference anywhere in the last 25 seconds ... nobody would be blaming Pop for anything. We'd be the happiest fvcks on earth. But because of that flukishly terrible ending, a lot of us are looking to place blame. Pop, in this scenario especially, is the easiest target.

Speaking of which, I don't think blame should ride with any one person. This was a team collapse if I've ever seen a team collapse.

-Duncan didn't do much in the second half or overtime.

-Parker almost reached Kobe territory (6-for-23 is better than 6-for-24, thankfully).

-Ginobili didn't have the best game of his career.

-Leonard missed the free throw.

-Green didn't shoot straight.

-Diaw got too excited on D in the fourth and started playing LeBron too closely.

-Splitter is suddenly the word's tallest midget.

-Neal made Neal type mistakes.

-Pop could have done a better job coaching but his mistakes are on par with everyone else's.



Team loss. A Mufukn' team loss. Suck it up. Quit the whining. Dry the tears. Move on. Win Game 7.

That's all there is to do at this point.

[SA210]

I knew this was coming lol

[timvp]

I knew this was coming lol

Any response or copers gonna cope?

[RD2191]

You won't be saying that tmrw when the Heat are running a train on the Spurs.

[BlackSilver]

co-signed. :toast

I felt like crap last night, but so much better this morning. We dominated 95% of the game and then ran out of gas and imagination when they hit desperation mode.

This team will figure out a way. I like the way they've responded after each loss in this series. There's only one Heat line-up that's been doing well against us, but not even that line-up can play 48 minutes.

[Blake]

I knew this was coming lol

What, no meme?

You're off your usual stuff today.

[SA210]

Parker ball-hogged, Manu turned it over, we missed free throws, etc. But it makes perfect sense to blame Pop for the stupid shit he did.

[SA210]

:cry I need timvp to save pop :cry

[ducks]

pop has taken duncan out at end of games for switching all year

I want to know if pop wanted a timeout when kl handed the ball to manu or he wanted to roll with it to nto let heat get set

[m33p0]

nah... benching td near the end was a foul up of epic proportions.

[ffadicted]

Good Shit

[playblair]

splitter on court = no rebounding heat 2nd chance pts...................... play blair...................

[ducks]

splitter had 2 key baskets

[DesignatedT]

I pretty much agree. I am not really upset with the substitutions.

#D is what I was most upset about. Even if Duncan got a little tired or didn't have it anymore it would still have been nice to give him a couple looks down the stretch of the 4th and in OT. The Spurs ended up with some pretty piss poor possessions late in the game. Not going to Duncan at all doesn't make much sense to me.

[m33p0]

pop has taken duncan out at end of games for switching all year

I want to know if pop wanted a timeout when kl handed the ball to manu or he wanted to roll with it to nto let heat get set
i think both but manu saw the opening and took it.

manu travelled on that play, btw. :lol

[Russ]

Pop was playing the odds.

Sometimes you make a great bet and lose.

Sometimes you make a dumb bet and win.

Over time, I'll trust Pop over any tinhorn (like me) that posts on a website.

[DPG21920]

Finally a premise I agree with. Been a while since there has been something other than verbal diarrhea coming out yo mouf.

Can't blame Pop. As sucky as Manu has been, you go down with who brought you there. He's earned that. All the other points about Pop's decisions were fine. Some hindsight nit-picking is ok, but overall, Pop had them in a great spot.

I don't agree with the "team" loss. Sure, players had moments that were not great (like the ones you listed) but only one had an entire game with nothing positive. Manu Ginobili is the only reason that matters when it comes to the blame game and he deserves every last drop of blame coming his way. timvp - any response?

[midnightpulp]

For the life of me, I'll never understand why NBA coaches don't intentional foul when up 3 in an end game situation.

I've heard it rationalized because the most your opponent can score is 3, while there's a risk they can potentially score 4 (made freethrow + offensive rebound leading to a 3 point shot) if you put them on line. But I'd be willing to bet big money you have much better odds of winning the game by intentionally fouling and forcing your opponent to make a pressure freethrow and get the offensive rebound off the purposely missed second FT than just letting them shoot a 3 to send the game into OT, which always seems to favor the team who makes the big game tying shot.

Bosh should've been tackled once he grabbed that board. Or James, a known shaky FT shooter, should've been put on the line.

[Obstructed_View]

Touching. If the score wasn't 94-89 when Duncan was benched, there might be some logic to it. As lame as your predictions?

[Tuddy]

There's no way TD would have made a difference for the first 3 which LeBron bricked.

[ElNono]

I was thinking about some of this today... we just had a tough break... you need a bit of luck too to go your way to win a ship, talent only takes you so far... And we've had some good breaks this run... injuries on other teams, series-swinging shots, etc...

Just hoping that wasn't Heat's fortune overriding ours, tbh...

[ohmwrecker]

Almost had them. You could see them about to break. Tears welling up in Kang's eyes. Then he hit that 3 . . . but I saw it. I saw that team on verge of accepting defeat. It can happen again.

[mexicanjunior]

Fuck Pop...blaming him makes perfect sense.

[capek]

indubitably

[Budkin]

I don't blame Pop. If he'd been in they probably hit the 3 straightaway.

[CitizenDwayne]

Tears welling up in Kang's eyes.

That was beautiful to witness.

I agree. Do it again. Please.

[hommeaetage]

While I agree with the overall assessment, benching TD made no sense to me (even in the regular season I never agreed with it) You need your best rebounder and rim protector in the game no matter how you slice it, especially when he saw they had given up the first offensive rebound that led to LeBron 3

[hommeaetage]

And what about the lineup that started the 4th? Are you guys really telling me all of you did not scratch your head during the start of the 4th?

[Baam]

"You don't bench Manu" makes no sense, Pop benched Tim in the GS series when he wasn't helping.

[Baam]

And what about the lineup that started the 4th? Are you guys really telling me all of you did not scratch your head during the start of the 4th?

Yeah the popologists have no case, the only way to save face is tomorrow.

[DPG21920]

"You don't bench Manu" makes no sense, Pop benched Tim in the GS series when he wasn't helping.

Fair point

[Obstructed_View]

And what about the lineup that started the 4th? Are you guys really telling me all of you did not scratch your head during the start of the 4th?

I did.

[SA210]

And what about the lineup that started the 4th?



:lol Yup, in a closeout game in the NBA Finals no less

[timvp]

Touching. If the score wasn't 94-89 when Duncan was benched, there might be some logic to it. As lame as your predictions?

Quality response.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Tim benched due to planning to switch on the threes?

He doesn't have to worry about anyone going to the rack on him down five. You know they're shooting. He can play to defend the three. Let someone take a 25 footer over him. Go ahead...

It was a dumb decision.

You can't bench Manu? Come on LJ, if Tim can be benched vs. Golden State at the end, seven turnover Manu sure as shit can be.

[UZER]

cmon man. manu was having a horrible game, probably his worst ever. you just dont keep rolling with him because he got you here. And Manu hasnt even gotten us here this year. the spurs have won despite his horrid play the entire playoffs except for one game...one freaking game. Pop is a supposed "genius" at in game adjustments. How do you not sit Manu when he is clearly a turnover machine and the championship is on the line.


If he can bench Tim, who was having a horrible game, at the end of the GS game for the betterment of the team, then he can certainly bench Manu.

[timvp]

And what about the lineup that started the 4th? Are you guys really telling me all of you did not scratch your head during the start of the 4th?

Pop was trying to buy minutes for TD and TP. As tired as they were down the stretch, even in hindsight that looks like a decent enough decision since TD and TP were obviously out of gas by the end.

[AntiChrist]

Trying to assign blame is a worthless exercise. It's done. If it all worked out, people would be praising Pop.

Also, I think you have to give the Heat credit for not giving up. Did you see their body language at halftime?

[DPG21920]

Why does timvp ignore things? It's not a bet thread tbh..

[cd021]

I know Spurs fans have four ways of coping with defeat: 1) Blaming Bonner 2) Blaming the refs 3) Blaming small market bias 4) Blaming Pop

Since Bonner barely played, the refs were pretty damn fair and no other conspiracies make sense at this point, we're left to blame Pop as a coping mechanism. But I just don't see how it makes sense to blame him.

A) Subbing Duncan out when you're defending against three-pointers is something he's done for the last five years. And over that time, I'm willing to bet the Spurs have defended last second three-pointers better than any team in the league. It didn't work last night in the end but, damn, it took two cruel bounces (and friendly fire going for the rebounds) on the initial misses to break down the defense. This wasn't comparable to Vogel benching Hibbert because the Pacers weren't defending against three-pointers in that scenario. If the Spurs were up two points and Pop benched Duncan in that circumstance, I'd have my pitchfork in hand ........ but they weren't. You're up three, you put a lineup that can switch everything and you force a contested three-pointer. Everything worked other than the bounces off the misses.

B) Benching Parker late is something I disagreed with in real time, especially since the Spurs weren't calling timeouts to put him back in. However, after the game Parker said he was cramping up. If TP can't go, then yeah you have to take him out. Not much to complain about there.

C) You don't bench Manu Ginobili. How many times have we seen him suck for 95% of the game before coming up big at the end? He's done that so often that it's expected at this point. Manu is a player you want on your team when the going gets tough. Sure, he didn't play well last night (yeah, that's being kind) but you don't bench him. Only hindsight would tell you he should have been benched.

D) It's easy to say TD should have been force fed more in the second half. But this season, we've seen a lot of examples of 37-year-old Duncan only having the wherewithal to play great for half the game. This is far from the first time that has happened. It's possible he could have done more in the second half with more touches -- but far from assured. A more likely scenario is his historic first half used up everything he had to give -- on the offensive end especially.

Everything else is just nitpicking. If the Spurs hit one more free throw, got one good bounce, had one inch of difference anywhere in the last 25 seconds ... nobody would be blaming Pop for anything. We'd be the happiest fvcks on earth. But because of that flukishly terrible ending, a lot of us are looking to place blame. Pop, in this scenario especially, is the easiest target.

Speaking of which, I don't think blame should ride with any one person. This was a team collapse if I've ever seen a team collapse.

-Duncan didn't do much in the second half or overtime.

-Parker almost reached Kobe territory (6-for-23 is better than 6-for-24, thankfully).

-Ginobili didn't have the best game of his career.

-Leonard missed the free throw.

-Green didn't shoot straight.

-Diaw got too excited on D in the fourth and started playing LeBron too closely.

-Splitter is suddenly the word's tallest midget.

-Neal made Neal type mistakes.

-Pop could have done a better job coaching but his mistakes are on par with everyone else's.



Team loss. A Mufukn' team loss. Suck it up. Quit the whining. Dry the tears. Move on. Win Game 7.

That's all there is to do at this point.

I can agree with most every point but having Parker and Duncan both out with

-A struggling Manu he literally had half of the teams T.O's was the go to for 4:30 minutes of the fourth quarter.

-Green as stated did shoot well. He can't score without play-making something Manu wasn't doing.

-Splitter hit two shots that were fortunate to go in other than that we would have 10 possessions ( a rough estimate) without scoring

-Leonard should have been on the floor as well instead of Green, with Green switching in for Kawhi once Parker and or Duncan returned.

-The Diaw and Splitter big tandem is a major drop off. Both can't be on the floor at the same time in this series.

[Obstructed_View]

Quality response.

Lol irony.

[AntiChrist]

All I know is my team is playing game 7 tomorrow. Win or lose, if its a competitive game, then we all just had the pleasure of witnessing one of the best NBA finals. Can't wait.

[timvp]

Tim benched due to planning to switch on the threes?

He doesn't have to worry about anyone going to the rack on him down five. You know they're shooting. He can play to defend the three. Let someone take a 25 footer over him. Go ahead... Key phrase is "over him". Diaw's mobility is more useful when you're trying to defend the three-point line. If Pop keeps Duncan out there and he gets screened off and gives up a wide open three, the copers would still be coping while pointing at that, tbh.



You can't bench Manu? Come on LJ, if Tim can be benched vs. Golden State at the end, seven turnover Manu sure as shit can be.TD got benched for matchups -- not poor play.

The matchups were perfect for Manu -- he just didn't play well. Admit it, if Manu comes down the lane and hits a game-winning layup at the end, no one be sitting her whining about Pop still having him in the game.

Ginobili out of anyone in Spurs history is the player who can turn a bad game into a great game in an instant. You know this.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

And what about the fourth quarter?

That shit line up to start the fourth was something that Pop would trot out against Charlotte in December.

In game 6 of the Finals with a chance to win a title? And after he recognized the problem with a similar lineup in game 5 and brought Tim and Tony back in earlier?

Pop coached the fourth and OT like he was planning for it to go seven, not like he was going for the kill shot. And he might have cost the Spurs a title in doing so.

[RD2191]

Hey obstructed, what are your thoughts on Splitter this series? Shoule he be playing more? Should he start again?

[timvp]

Lol irony.

Lol predictable coping mechanism.

[Arcadian]

A) Subbing Duncan out when you're defending against three-pointers is something he's done for the last five years. And over that time, I'm willing to bet the Spurs have defended last second three-pointers better than any team in the league.

Yes, but they probably had another 7-footer or designated rebounder in the game in his place. You always have to secure the rebound after you make a stop, otherwise the defense was pointless. This is fundamental basketball. Saying "he's always done this" is irrelevant. If he's always done this, he's always been wrong. (If it's worked in the past, he's been lucky.)

[2centsworth]

F U Pop you arrogant POS.

Overwhelming stupid!

[Fabbs]

C) You don't bench Manu Ginobili. How many times have we seen him suck for 95% of the game before coming up big at the end? He's done that so often that it's expected at this point. Manu is a player you want on your team when the going gets tough. Sure, he didn't play well last night (yeah, that's being kind) but you don't bench him. Only hindsight would tell you he should have been benched.

compare and contrast


timvp -I love Manu and I still want him back next year but watching the tape makes it difficult not to be mad at him. If he dies during warmups of Game 6, the Spurs win by 15 to 20 points. He was literally the best player on the Heat last night.
Wasn't hindsight. You could tell Manu was jacked up in the 1st three minutes he played. We were howling when Coach Never Repeat reinserted Ginobili.

[DPG21920]

Not only the "Manu dies" quote, but this:


In the three losses this series, the Spurs have a plus/minus of -66 when Manu is on the court.

When he has been on the bench in those three games, the Spurs have a plus/minus of +30.

Blaming a series loss on one player is too cruel (even Hedo, tbh) but, damn, a 96 point swing in three games?

:cry

How is it not his fault now and a "team loss"?

[timvp]

compare and contrast


Wasn't hindsight. You could tell Manu was jacked up in the 1st three minutes he played. We were howling when Coach Never Repeat reinserted Ginobili.

You would have been howling if Manu turned it around like he has 234,109,235 times in the past.

[DPG21920]

That's not the point. The point is when you say "if a player died, you would be better off" then say ":cry It's a team loss you can't blame that player", it doesn't make sense.

[DPG21920]

Of course we would be howling if he turned it around. But he didn't. He cost the Spurs a title last night. We are discussing what happened. People aren't blaming Pop for playing Manu which alludes to your thread and point above. They are blaming Manu and rightfully so which disagrees with the part I said.

[lefty]

I disagree
Pop went full retard in this game

[Spurs21Fan4Ever]

I'm sorry, but I will blame Pop. With 28 seconds to go in a close out game of the NBA Finals, you freakin play your franchise player! As simple as that! Diaw has had a nice series, but in no situation in a close out game of the NBA Finals do I want Boris Diaw in there instead of Tim Duncan. Pop overthought and got arrogant thinking that he controlled more than he really did. I guarantee we would've won if Duncan was in there at the end. Do you really think Duncan would've given up those rebounds?

[UZER]

Key phrase is "over him". Diaw's mobility is more useful when you're trying to defend the three-point line. If Pop keeps Duncan out there and he gets screened off and gives up a wide open three, the copers would still be coping while pointing at that, tbh.


TD got benched for matchups -- not poor play.

The matchups were perfect for Manu -- he just didn't play well. Admit it, if Manu comes down the lane and hits a game-winning layup at the end, no one be sitting her whining about Pop still having him in the game.

Ginobili out of anyone in Spurs history is the player who can turn a bad game into a great game in an instant. You know this.

you have your foot on their throat. You're about to deliver the knock out blow. You dont sit guys, just in case there is a run, and then proceed to put in the very guys that give the Heat that run.

who's to say the spurs go start the 4th on a 8-0 run and put the game away. Instead, lets play like they're might be a run, and in fact, here are the players to help you make that run.

also, if Tim was benched for "bad matchups", how is ginobili running the pick and roll and turning the ball over and over not a bad matchup. A bad matchup is someone that is burned over and over because of the personal on the floor. Why was pop putting Manu in the position to keep turning the ball over. Isn't running the pnr with manu a bad matchup in the heats favor?

[hommeaetage]

cmon man. manu was having a horrible game, probably his worst ever. you just dont keep rolling with him because he got you here. And Manu hasnt even gotten us here this year. the spurs have won despite his horrid play the entire playoffs except for one game...one freaking game. Pop is a supposed "genius" at in game adjustments. How do you not sit Manu when he is clearly a turnover machine and the championship is on the line.


If he can bench Tim, who was having a horrible game, at the end of the GS game for the betterment of the team, then he can certainly bench Manu.

Thank you. I certainly don't get the notion "you roll with Manu cause he got you there" Sure Manu has been amazing in the past but this year they were winning in spite of Manu. Outside of game 5 in this series, Richard Jefferson (I can't believe I'm saying this :vomit:) would have been a better option at this point

[cd021]

Pop was trying to buy minutes for TD and TP. As tired as they were down the stretch, even in hindsight that looks like a decent enough decision since TD and TP were obviously out of gas by the end.

I'm sorry but their isn't any excuse for that. Pop played Duncan & Parker with 10:30 left in the game 5 yet on the road he waits 4 minutes of break in between quarters and a full time out as well plus 4:30 of game time to bring them back in clinging to a leading. Our offense was in shambles after that. We never looked comfortable on offense after that. We were up by 10 at the end of the 3rd. Having one of them to keep Manu from handing the ball full time would have helped close out that game.

[timvp]

Of course we would be howling if he turned it around. But he didn't. He cost the Spurs a title last night. We are discussing hindsight.

This thread isn't about hindsight, tbh. This thread is about critiquing coaching decisions as they happened.

[timvp]

I'm sorry but their isn't any excuse for that. Pop played Duncan & Parker with 10:30 left in the game 5 yet on the road he waits 4 minutes of break in between quarters and a full time out as well plus 4:30 of game time to bring them back in clinging to a leading. Our offense was in shambles after that. We never looked comfortable on offense after that. We were up by 10 at the end of the 3rd. Having one of them to keep Manu from handing the ball full time would have helped close out that game.

This would be a much better argument if TD and TP both didn't still look tired even after the extended break.

[DPG21920]

:lol What? This thread is about the hindsight of Pop's decisions plus your thoughts on blame. You specifically went outside the "coaching" aspect and ventured into the "blame" aspect with regards to players hence my disagreement.

[hommeaetage]

you have your foot on their throat. You're about to deliver the knock out blow. You dont sit guys, just in case there is a run, and then proceed to put in the very guys that give the Heat that run.

who's to say the spurs go start the 4th on a 8-0 run and put the game away. Instead, lets play like they're might be a run, and in fact, here are the players to help you make that run.

also, if Tim was benched for "bad matchups", how is ginobili running the pick and roll and turning the ball over and over not a bad matchup. A bad matchup is someone that is burned over and over because of the personal on the floor. Why was pop putting Manu in the position to keep turning the ball over. Isn't running the pnr with manu a bad matchup in the heats favor?

This.

[dunkman]

Parker and Kawhi missed a ft late in the game. And Pop's mistake was to call plays for Parker and Manu to drive, should have tried a jumper if Duncan was too tired.

But, the Heat connected some late 3's, Bosh also played some defense late.

[DPG21920]

Speaking of which, I don't think blame should ride with any one person. This was a team collapse if I've ever seen a team collapse.

-Duncan didn't do much in the second half or overtime.

-Parker almost reached Kobe territory (6-for-23 is better than 6-for-24, thankfully).

-Ginobili didn't have the best game of his career.

-Leonard missed the free throw.

-Green didn't shoot straight.

-Diaw got too excited on D in the fourth and started playing LeBron too closely.

-Splitter is suddenly the word's tallest midget.

-Neal made Neal type mistakes.

-Pop could have done a better job coaching but his mistakes are on par with everyone else's.



Team loss. A Mufukn' team loss. Suck it up. Quit the whining. Dry the tears. Move on. Win Game 7.

That's all there is to do at this point.

[NRHector]

Sorry this one is on Pop, If td and tp were too tired to play the 4th well they'll have the rest of the summer to rest and to think about Pop decision

[dbreiden83080]

Tim needed to go back in when Bosh was put in.. Bosh was not there to shoot a 3 he was there to rebound which he did easily over a helpless Manu and flipped it back to Allen..

[ElNono]

tbh, I just can't stop remembering the 4th quarter starting and being in complete shock with the lineup... just cannot get over it. And after they cut it to 4, Pop calls a timeout and same lineup still out there? I was floored.

[NRHector]

Tim needed to go back in when Bosh was put in.. Bosh was not there to shoot a 3 he was there to rebound which he did easily over a helpless Manu and flipped it back to Allen..

A video coordinator outcoached a coach with 4 rings

[dbreiden83080]

A video coordinator outcoached a coach with 4 rings

To me that is where the game and likely the championship was lost. Tim boxes that bitch Bosh out and the game is over...

[NRHector]

To me that is where the game and likely the championship was lost. Tim boxes that bitch Bosh out and the game is over...

Exactly, even a high school coach can see that shit anybody with common sense can see that

[LakerLanny]

I dig TimVp's posts and am a huge fan of his classy wife.

That said, I disagree with this opinion for reasons I have detailed in other threads. Pop flat out overthought it and overcoached it, period. He completely botched the game and I just hope the team can dig deep and bail him out in Game 7.

It wasn't just one bad coaching decision, it was a series of them to the point where I think you could legitimately argue it was one of the worst coaching performances in NBA Finals history. And I am not saying that only in hindsight, I was saying it at the time....he blew the game when it was obvious the Spurs badly outplayed them.

He needs to just calm the fuck down and make sensible decisions in Game 7, a good start would be enough with the endless "rest" periods for star players. Let the star players tell you if they need to come out, they have all fucking summer to rest and this is for all the marbles. The TV timeouts alone are plenty of rest for most players, trust me on that.

If a guy needs to come out, let him signal you....don't have your two best players not on the floor in the last minute of regulation when you are up 5 with a title on the line....ASANINE.

[Spurs21Fan4Ever]

Tim needed to go back in when Bosh was put in.. Bosh was not there to shoot a 3 he was there to rebound which he did easily over a helpless Manu and flipped it back to Allen..

EXACTLY!!!!!!!!! How many threes has Bosh shot since game 1? I'm pretty sure none! And sure Duncan isn't the best perimeter defender, but even if he has to switch due to a screen from Bosh, he is tall enough to disturb any three point shot. Worst case scenario he gets beat and gives up a layup, which would not have been near as devastating as a three point shot. Keeping Diaw as the only big (though you could consider Leonard a big) was beyond dumb for many reasons.

[pgardn]

Parker ball-hogged, Manu turned it over, we missed free throws, etc. But it makes perfect sense to blame Pop for the stupid shit he did.

You have to be one of the most ignorant posters on this board.
When were you decapitated? What type of head did you get through insurance, I think the model was recalled.

[michaelwcho]

I agree, the endgame subbing wasn't a big deal. Kawhi's free throw... sucked.

Diaw changing the way he defended LeBron was the worst thing that happened. LBJ was in his own head, until Diaw got him into his comfort zone. All of a sudden it seemed like no one could stop him (no one can, he can only stop himself, so let him). And that was what let Miami back in the game. Yet for all the narrative about how great LBJ played, he missed a lot and turned it over a lot there in the late fourth.

[NRHector]

I dig TimVp's posts and am a huge fan of his classy wife.

That said, I disagree with this opinion for reasons I have detailed in other threads. Pop flat out overthought it and overcoached it, period. He completely botched the game and I just hope the team can dig deep and bail him out in Game 7.

It wasn't just one bad coaching decision, it was a series of them to the point where I think you could legitimately argue it was one of the worst coaching performances in NBA Finals history. And I am not saying that only in hindsight, I was saying it at the time....he blew the game when it was obvious the Spurs badly outplayed them.

He needs to just calm the fuck down and make sensible decisions in Game 7, a good start would be enough with the endless "rest" periods for star players. Let the star players tell you if they need to come out, they have all fucking summer to rest and this is for all the marbles. The TV timeouts alone are plenty of rest for most players, trust me on that.

If a guy needs to come out, let him signal you....don't have your two best players not on the floor in the last minute of regulation when you are up 5 with a title on the line....ASANINE.

Fml I'm agreeing with a laker fan

[UZER]

I agree, the endgame subbing wasn't a big deal. Kawhi's free throw... sucked.

Diaw changing the way he defended LeBron was the worst thing that happened. LBJ was in his own head, until Diaw got him into his comfort zone. All of a sudden it seemed like no one could stop him (no one can, he can only stop himself, so let him). And that was what let Miami back in the game. Yet for all the narrative about how great LBJ played, he missed a lot and turned it over a lot there in the late fourth.

lebron was definitely in his own head. Once splitter got in, the lane opened and lebron started rollin. By the time diaw got back in, it was almost...almost to late, but diaw settled back in and lebron started pressing again.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

I know Spurs fans have four ways of coping with defeat: 1) Blaming Bonner 2) Blaming the refs 3) Blaming small market bias 4) Blaming Pop

Since Bonner barely played, the refs were pretty damn fair and no other conspiracies make sense at this point, we're left to blame Pop as a coping mechanism. But I just don't see how it makes sense to blame him.

A) Subbing Duncan out when you're defending against three-pointers is something he's done for the last five years. And over that time, I'm willing to bet the Spurs have defended last second three-pointers better than any team in the league. It didn't work last night in the end but, damn, it took two cruel bounces (and friendly fire going for the rebounds) on the initial misses to break down the defense. This wasn't comparable to Vogel benching Hibbert because the Pacers weren't defending against three-pointers in that scenario. If the Spurs were up two points and Pop benched Duncan in that circumstance, I'd have my pitchfork in hand ........ but they weren't. You're up three, you put a lineup that can switch everything and you force a contested three-pointer. Everything worked other than the bounces off the misses.

B) Benching Parker late is something I disagreed with in real time, especially since the Spurs weren't calling timeouts to put him back in. However, after the game Parker said he was cramping up. If TP can't go, then yeah you have to take him out. Not much to complain about there.

C) You don't bench Manu Ginobili. How many times have we seen him suck for 95% of the game before coming up big at the end? He's done that so often that it's expected at this point. Manu is a player you want on your team when the going gets tough. Sure, he didn't play well last night (yeah, that's being kind) but you don't bench him. Only hindsight would tell you he should have been benched.

D) It's easy to say TD should have been force fed more in the second half. But this season, we've seen a lot of examples of 37-year-old Duncan only having the wherewithal to play great for half the game. This is far from the first time that has happened. It's possible he could have done more in the second half with more touches -- but far from assured. A more likely scenario is his historic first half used up everything he had to give -- on the offensive end especially.

Everything else is just nitpicking. If the Spurs hit one more free throw, got one good bounce, had one inch of difference anywhere in the last 25 seconds ... nobody would be blaming Pop for anything. We'd be the happiest fvcks on earth. But because of that flukishly terrible ending, a lot of us are looking to place blame. Pop, in this scenario especially, is the easiest target.

Speaking of which, I don't think blame should ride with any one person. This was a team collapse if I've ever seen a team collapse.

-Duncan didn't do much in the second half or overtime.

-Parker almost reached Kobe territory (6-for-23 is better than 6-for-24, thankfully).

-Ginobili didn't have the best game of his career.

-Leonard missed the free throw.

-Green didn't shoot straight.

-Diaw got too excited on D in the fourth and started playing LeBron too closely.

-Splitter is suddenly the word's tallest midget.

-Neal made Neal type mistakes.

-Pop could have done a better job coaching but his mistakes are on par with everyone else's.



Team loss. A Mufukn' team loss. Suck it up. Quit the whining. Dry the tears. Move on. Win Game 7.

That's all there is to do at this point.

Exactly. I tried to explain this to the muppets in the game thread but they wouldn't listen.

[baseline bum]

Pop was playing the odds.

Sometimes you make a great bet and lose.

Sometimes you make a dumb bet and win.

Over time, I'll trust Pop over any tinhorn (like me) that posts on a website.

This. You play the odds instead of going with your gut.

[pgardn]

Pop made a number of poor decisions imo.

But my god the number of things that happened on the court that had nothing to do with lineups was incredible.
Everyone wants to have their own moment when the game was lost because this is easy. Just forget the multitude of good and bad events that got the game to that point.

I choose to look at the time period in the 4th when Lebron lost his headband and was killing us, the game was slipping away and what happened? A timeout. The Heat's rhythm was completely thrown off. It allowed us to come back. If it was not for this break we would have been blown out and never had a chance for missed FTs, Manu mistakes late, pops horrible decisions.

We got lucky to even be in the game. I choose this point as my most important of the game.

So fuck all the IFs and BUTs. We should have lost at MY special pet moment. MY special prejudices.

[TDfan2007]

This would be a much better argument if TD and TP both didn't still look tired even after the extended break.

Duncan didn't look too tired. He simply didn't get the ball in good position ala games 2 and 4. The Spurs started going away from him immediately after halftime.

And please tell me why you would have a guy who is gassed running around and setting screens everywhere instead of staying on the block.

It's not Timmy's fault that Tony and Pop forgot that he was on the floor in the second half.

[100%duncan]

You take your best rebounder out of the game when the only thing separating you from a championship is 1 last defensive rebound? And let's not for get, he did it twice, and in those 2 times, 2 3's came from offensive rebounds.

Sure let's not blame Pop, it doesn't make sense. :rolleyes

[timvp]

You take your best rebounder out of the game when the only thing separating you from a championship is 1 last defensive rebound?

The focus was defending the three-point line since they were up three points, tbh.

[mingus]

tbh, I just can't stop remembering the 4th quarter starting and being in complete shock with the lineup... just cannot get over it. And after they cut it to 4, Pop calls a timeout and same lineup still out there? I was floored.

This to me was the biggest mistake. Pop needed to somehow manage his rotations so that Parker and Duncan weren't getting a rest at the same time. The lineup with Manu running the show has been consistently bad all series, it seems. I think had Popovich kept one of Duncan and Parker in we would have kept the lead.

The Spurs had control of the game up to that point and were basically going to route them.

I like our chances in game 7.

[100%duncan]

I know Spurs fans have four ways of coping with defeat: 1) Blaming Bonner 2) Blaming the refs 3) Blaming small market bias 4) Blaming Pop

Since Bonner barely played, the refs were pretty damn fair and no other conspiracies make sense at this point, we're left to blame Pop as a coping mechanism. But I just don't see how it makes sense to blame him.

A) Subbing Duncan out when you're defending against three-pointers is something he's done for the last five years. And over that time, I'm willing to bet the Spurs have defended last second three-pointers better than any team in the league. It didn't work last night in the end but, damn, it took two cruel bounces (and friendly fire going for the rebounds) on the initial misses to break down the defense. This wasn't comparable to Vogel benching Hibbert because the Pacers weren't defending against three-pointers in that scenario. If the Spurs were up two points and Pop benched Duncan in that circumstance, I'd have my pitchfork in hand ........ but they weren't. You're up three, you put a lineup that can switch everything and you force a contested three-pointer. Everything worked other than the bounces off the misses.

B) Benching Parker late is something I disagreed with in real time, especially since the Spurs weren't calling timeouts to put him back in. However, after the game Parker said he was cramping up. If TP can't go, then yeah you have to take him out. Not much to complain about there.

C) You don't bench Manu Ginobili. How many times have we seen him suck for 95% of the game before coming up big at the end? He's done that so often that it's expected at this point. Manu is a player you want on your team when the going gets tough. Sure, he didn't play well last night (yeah, that's being kind) but you don't bench him. Only hindsight would tell you he should have been benched.

D) It's easy to say TD should have been force fed more in the second half. But this season, we've seen a lot of examples of 37-year-old Duncan only having the wherewithal to play great for half the game. This is far from the first time that has happened. It's possible he could have done more in the second half with more touches -- but far from assured. A more likely scenario is his historic first half used up everything he had to give -- on the offensive end especially.

Everything else is just nitpicking. If the Spurs hit one more free throw, got one good bounce, had one inch of difference anywhere in the last 25 seconds ... nobody would be blaming Pop for anything. We'd be the happiest fvcks on earth. But because of that flukishly terrible ending, a lot of us are looking to place blame. Pop, in this scenario especially, is the easiest target.

Speaking of which, I don't think blame should ride with any one person. This was a team collapse if I've ever seen a team collapse.

-Duncan didn't do much in the second half or overtime.

-Parker almost reached Kobe territory (6-for-23 is better than 6-for-24, thankfully).

-Ginobili didn't have the best game of his career.

-Leonard missed the free throw.

-Green didn't shoot straight.

-Diaw got too excited on D in the fourth and started playing LeBron too closely.

-Splitter is suddenly the word's tallest midget.

-Neal made Neal type mistakes.

-Pop could have done a better job coaching but his mistakes are on par with everyone else's.



Team loss. A Mufukn' team loss. Suck it up. Quit the whining. Dry the tears. Move on. Win Game 7.

That's all there is to do at this point.

Every points on your bullets doesn't matter. The Spurs survived all those shit. THEY WERE UP 5 WITH 28 SECONDS LEFT. SO YEAH LETS NOT BLAME POP.

[TDfan2007]

I agree with everything else though. Players lost this game by playing soft and stupid in the fourth.

[100%duncan]

The focus was defending the three-point line since they were up three points, tbh.

So you forgot the possession before that? Up 5 28 seconds left, lebron misses, rebound, lebron hits 3.

Guess what LJ? A defensive isn't a stop until you get that defensive rebound.

[pgardn]

You take your best rebounder out of the game when the only thing separating you from a championship is 1 last defensive rebound? And let's not for get, he did it twice, and in those 2 times, 2 3's came from offensive rebounds.

Sure let's not blame Pop, it doesn't make sense. :rolleyes

So what about the first quarter? It came before the end of the regulation. How come we had not been blown out by then?
How did we even get ahead in the 4th? The rest of the game comes before the end in most worlds.

And I do Agee it was a bad decision, I was screaming along with my cousin when we saw who walked onto the floor.

[100%duncan]

So what about the first quarter? It came before the end of the regulation. How come we had not been blown out by then?
How did we even get ahead in the 4th? The rest of the game comes before the end in most worlds.

And I do Agee it was a bad decision, I was screaming along with my cousin when we saw who walked onto the floor.

Your first paragraph doesn't make sense, oh that's familiar! Yes! Like Pop's decision making!

[dbreiden83080]

So you forgot the possession before that? Up 5 28 seconds left, lebron misses, rebound, lebron hits 3.

Guess what LJ? A defensive isn't a stop until you get that defensive rebound.

This...

[mingus]

The three point shot is a low percentage shot. Chances are you miss more than you make them, especially in a clutch situation. And you can point to past instances where the Spurs usd that same strategy, but it wasnt against the Miami Heat and a championship wasn't on the line. Tim Duncan should have been out there.

[TrainOfThought5]

The order of Merit list for blaming is as follows:

1. Ginobili.

2. Ginobili.

3. Ginobili.

5. Popovich... if youre just intent on spreading the blame around.

[timvp]

So you forgot the possession before that? Up 5 28 seconds left, lebron misses, rebound, lebron hits 3.


The focus was still defending the three-point line.

[pgardn]

Your first paragraph doesn't make sense, oh that's familiar! Yes! Like Pop's decision making!
Did you watch the WHOLE game?

Oh shit, lets just make up a score and start with 28 seconds left.

Its all that matters... Fool.

[100%duncan]

Did you watch the WHOLE game?

Oh shit, lets just make up a score and start with 28 seconds left.

Its all that matters... Fool.

You're so stupid sorry. I won't reply to anymore. Ciao.

[100%duncan]

The focus was still defending the three-point line.

Let's play your game.

If you say that that was the focus, was the goal attained? No. Because no one was out there in the point to fucking rebound.

[100%duncan]

The order of Merit list for blaming is as follows:

1. Ginobili.

2. Ginobili.

3. Ginobili.

5. Popovich... if youre just intent on spreading the blame around.

Fuck you.

[tlongII]

I dig TimVp's posts and am a huge fan of his classy wife.

That said, I disagree with this opinion for reasons I have detailed in other threads. Pop flat out overthought it and overcoached it, period. He completely botched the game and I just hope the team can dig deep and bail him out in Game 7.

It wasn't just one bad coaching decision, it was a series of them to the point where I think you could legitimately argue it was one of the worst coaching performances in NBA Finals history. And I am not saying that only in hindsight, I was saying it at the time....he blew the game when it was obvious the Spurs badly outplayed them.

He needs to just calm the fuck down and make sensible decisions in Game 7, a good start would be enough with the endless "rest" periods for star players. Let the star players tell you if they need to come out, they have all fucking summer to rest and this is for all the marbles. The TV timeouts alone are plenty of rest for most players, trust me on that.

If a guy needs to come out, let him signal you....don't have your two best players not on the floor in the last minute of regulation when you are up 5 with a title on the line....ASANINE.

I agree with Lanny. Popovich blew the game plain and simple. Even when they needed a 3 to tie it at the end he had both Duncan and Splitter in. WTF?!

[pgardn]

This is not the first time Pop has left Tim out to defend the perimeter.

I was PERSONALLY upset that this was against a team that is too athletic. But I understand pops reasoning.

[xtremesteven33]

The job of a coach is to put his team in a position to win. Spurs had a tremendous opportunity, and they couldnt do it. Its not supposed to be easy. Spurs know this. Fuck yea theyre dissapointed. All the "What ifs" enter your mind and could creep in doubt, but the Spurs know what competition is all about.

Blame the Heat.

[mercos]

I'm actually fine with Pop taking Duncan out on those last plays in regulation for the reasons stated in the OP. It took a lucky bounce and a lucky shot to force OT. Shit happens. Where I disagree is on Pop leaving Ginobili in. If we are talking prime Manu, of course you leave him in to figure things out. I'd live or die with prime Manu all day. However, prime Manu wasn't left in, 35 year old Manu was left in. The guy didn't have it from the opening tip. I'm not saying he should have been benched, but he shouldn't have played so much in the fourth quarter. Others were playing better.

I was also bothered by a strategic blunder: switching on the pick and roll. I'm not sure why we stopped going under on the pick and roll and instead started switching and allowing Parker to guard James. It allowed Lebron to get going, which is a big mistake. When you've got the King bottled up, it is best to keep him that way.

[TrainOfThought5]

Fuck you.

Get in line. Ginobilis not done fucking the team. the franchise. and the entire fanbase.

[pgardn]

You're so stupid sorry. I won't reply to anymore. Ciao.

Of course you won't. That happens when you are stuck on your moment. You don't remember anything else that came before it. You are a pop hater and you stay fixated to that niche.

[TrainOfThought5]

8 turnovers and -21 for the game and you all want to blame Pop??

outrageous. Any other time but this one fellas.

[HI-FI]

tbh, I just can't stop remembering the 4th quarter starting and being in complete shock with the lineup... just cannot get over it. And after they cut it to 4, Pop calls a timeout and same lineup still out there? I was floored.
i agree, i remember that exact same moment. I was texting my cuz and kept saying Manu and Lebron are going to kill us. Then after the timeout I was thinking "okay good, we'll get things back on track." but when I saw it was the same shit, I just had the worst feeling for this game.

[2centsworth]

This thread isn't about hindsight, tbh. This thread is about critiquing coaching decisions as they happened.
Your foresight sucks so you're having trouble realizing others have some.

[LakerLanny]

8 turnovers and -21 for the game and you all want to blame Pop??

outrageous. Any other time but this one fellas.

Any guy that had the time to turn the ball over 8 times and go for a -21 in a close game was on the floor too much right?

Manu doesn't put himself in the game.

[Ryan Fitzpatrick]

Your foresight sucks so you're having trouble realizing others have some.

:lolgotDAYUM

[LakerLanny]

I agree with Lanny. Popovich blew the game plain and simple. Even when they needed a 3 to tie it at the end he had both Duncan and Splitter in. WTF?!

How goes it Bro? Long time no talk! I love Lillard, but your coach blows.

[100%duncan]

LJ, disapprearing per par.

[tlongII]

How goes it Bro? Long time no talk! I love Lillard, but your coach blows.

What up Lanny? I'm not a big fan of Stotts either. I think our future is better than yours though. :lol

[Fabbs]

You would have been howling if Manu turned it around like he has 234,109,235 times in the past.
If's and buts were candy and nuts.....

You inference that Popped just had to leave Manu in is incorrect.

Are you gonna address the compare and contrast part?

And no, i would not have been howling if Ginobili had turned it around. I announced to all viewing the game with me that wow, this is like a weird win. Others commented on how neither team deserved to win. It was like hoop at its unfundamental worst. Yeah of course i would have been happy, more like relieved if the Spurs would have and should have overcome their 15 screw ups. Up 5 with 28 seconds and choking? Wow.

[024]

Blame spread:

Ginobili 90%
Pop 5%
Parker 5%

Everyone else played to or exceeded their respective expectations.

[LakerLanny]

What up Lanny? I'm not a big fan of Stotts either. I think our future is better than yours though. :lol

Probably, unless Mitch busts out the Magic Wand and jams it up the Clippers ass in a Dwight Howard for Blake Griffin/Eric Bledsoe steal for us!

Nash, Kobe, Paul Pierce, Blake Griffin, Pau Gasol. Bench: Eric Bledsoe, White Mamba (Steve Blake), Jordan Hill, Earl Clark, Peyton Siva, Big Man To Be Named Later.

MWP: Amnesty.

[pgardn]

I agree with Lanny. Popovich blew the game plain and simple. Even when they needed a 3 to tie it at the end he had both Duncan and Splitter in. WTF?!
Tim is best at throwing the pass to the corner. He is TALL.

Splitter sets very good screens because he is mobile and large so he gets in people's way.

The ball was thrown on a line to the corner before Green was even there as it was a play drawn up. It worked well but Bosh made an outstanding read. The thing Miami did that was excellent is not bothering to even put a man on Duncan.

What play did you draw up besides "not that one" ?

[TrainOfThought5]

Any guy that had the time to turn the ball over 8 times and go for a -21 in a close game was on the floor too much right?

Manu doesn't put himself in the game.

The guy is making 14 million... highest on a team that prides itself on frugality.

hes won multiple trophies... made numerous clutch shots. its hard for me to fault Pop the majority of the pie for relying on someone who is SUPPOSED to be able to get it done.

I split the blame 90/10.

[pgardn]

LJ, disapprearing per par.

With idiots like you that are told the same thing over and over its understandable.

[TrainOfThought5]

Blame spread:

Ginobili 90%
Pop 5%
Parker 5%

Everyone else played to or exceeded their respective expectations.

Just now seeing this and i concur. its a solid spread. forgot about Parkers ridiculous tunnel vision. but i forgive him for the stepback three... it was FMVP worthy.

[Floyd Pacquiao]

If duncan is in the game, he gets that rebound...end of story

pop out thought himself...

thats it and thats all...

[dbreiden83080]

The focus was still defending the three-point line.

Who's getting the rebound with Bosh out there and Tim not? Leonard maybe but he was on the perimeter guarding the 3 point line. That left Manu trying to get it which Bosh easily reached over him and you know what happened next.. Your wrong Duncan had to be in the game as soon as Bosh came in..

[100%duncan]

Funny that NASFs act like they are all tough and smart :lol

internet tough guys :lol

:cry im scared :cry

[EVAY]

The job of a coach is to put his team in a position to win. Spurs had a tremendous opportunity, and they couldnt do it. Its not supposed to be easy. Spurs know this. Fuck yea theyre dissapointed. All the "What ifs" enter your mind and could creep in doubt, but the Spurs know what competition is all about.

Blame the Heat.

Thank you.:toast

[timvp]

Let's play your game.

If you say that that was the focus, was the goal attained? No. Because no one was out there in the point to fucking rebound.

Actually, there were too many players in the paint to rebound. They ran into each other and the ball popped free.

[ElNono]

Funny that NASFs act like they are all tough and smart :lol

internet tough guys :lol

:cry im scared :cry

Saving for one or two, this batch has been terrible... you just hope that win or lose, a good chunk of them will be gone in a week or two, tbh...

[100%duncan]

Actually, there were too many players in the paint to rebound. They ran into each other and the ball popped free.

Kawhi was out there guarding Bron. The others were still far from the paint. Only Manu really had a chance albeit a slim one against a 6'11 Bosh.

[EVAY]

I was also shocked at the lineup starting the 4th and being in for so long.


BUT:

Duncan couldn't make a shot in the fourth quarter. Period. Continuing to give him the ball to try would have been poor.

Ginobili had a terrible game, for which he feels worse than any of us do.

Parler was literally heaving he was so exhausted in the 4th quarter, and he was being guarded by James. The answer to that situation was Ginobili stepping up, but we all know that didn't work out so well.

So Parker was out of gas. Duncan was out of gas. Manu was out of sorts.

And what happened? James was desperate and found a fifth gear.

As the other guy said: Blame Miami Heat. They won the game. NO single member of the Spurs lost the game.

[Ryan Fitzpatrick]

The spurfan civil war will be epic if they complete the choke tomorrow.

[tlongII]

Tim is best at throwing the pass to the corner. He is TALL.

Splitter sets very good screens because he is mobile and large so he gets in people's way.

The ball was thrown on a line to the corner before Green was even there as it was a play drawn up. It worked well but Bosh made an outstanding read. The thing Miami did that was excellent is not bothering to even put a man on Duncan.

What play did you draw up besides "not that one" ?

You want 5 guys that all have 3 point range. Best play is to inbound and have it returned to the inbounder for a 3.

[timvp]

Kawhi was out there guarding Bron. The others were still far from the paint. Only Manu really had a chance albeit a slim one against a 6'11 Bosh.

You're talking about the play the Spurs were down by five, remember? The Spurs rebounders collided and Miller came down with it.

[pgardn]

Actually, there were too many players in the paint to rebound. They ran into each other and the ball popped free.
Duncan woul have snared it flat footed IMO.

But it does not matter as I understand Pops thinking.

[rmt]

As bad as Manu played, it's up to the coach how many minutes the players play. There's a reason hardly anybody has 8 turnovers - that's because the coach pulls them before the turnovers get that high. Start Manu and have a quick hook if he doesn't have it that night. Did anyone seriously think that he was going to have 2 good games in a row when he's played poorly ALL season long? Neal instead of Manu please, screen with Tiago and let the 3s fly. Neal's not afraid to shoot - let him earn that next contract. I'd rather a missed 3, 50/50 rebound than a Manu turnover fueling a MIA fast break.

If Bosh is out there, TD should have been out there.

Pop should never have TD and TP on the bench at the same time - much less TD, TP and Leonard ALL at the same time.

[pgardn]

You want 5 guys that all have 3 point range. Best play is to inbound and have it returned to the inbounder for a 3.
Not when they have Bosh in.

That play is so worn out, the last time it worked for us was against Detroit in the playoffs, when Wallace was told by Larry Brown not to leave Horry, the inbounder.
He left Horry.

[100%duncan]

You're talking about the play the Spurs were down by five, remember? The Spurs rebounders collided and Miller came down with it.

No, I'm talking about taking out Duncan in those 2 possessions.

[100%duncan]

Saving for one or two, this batch has been terrible... you just hope that win or lose, a good chunk of them will be gone in a week or two, tbh...


Saving for one or two, this batch has been terrible... you just hope that win or lose, a good chunk of them will be gone in a week or two, tbh...

Yep :lol

:lol lets blame manu

who gives a fuck about those 8 turnovers, we were up 5 with 28 seconds left, we got through all the bullshit until that moment.

:cry you can't blame Pop, fuck yoouszsz he's a fucken legend :cry

[LongtimeSpursFan]

You take your best rebounder out of the game when the only thing separating you from a championship is 1 last defensive rebound? And let's not for get, he did it twice, and in those 2 times, 2 3's came from offensive rebounds.

Sure let's not blame Pop, it doesn't make sense. :rolleyes

Spurs were defending the three pointer not looking to get a defensive rebound. LeBron was the tallest player on the court when he made three and had Kawhi guarding him. That's a good matchup for the Spurs that I would take any day. Pop made a good substitution by taking Duncan out when Spo went with really small ball. No sense in Timmy chasing a small all over the court as one screen and that small has an easy look.

[100%duncan]

Spurs were defending the three pointer not looking to get a defensive rebound. LeBron was the tallest player on the court when he made three and had Kawhi guarding him. That's a good matchup for the Spurs that I would take any day. Pop made a good substitution by taking Duncan out when Spo went with really small ball. No sense in Timmy chasing a small all over the court as one screen and that small has an easy look.

Defending doesn't stop at stopping the 3, it stops when you get an defensive board.

[ChumpDumper]

Duncan woul have snared it flat footed IMO.How would he catch a rebound in the paint after he is guarding the three point line?

Just asking. The rest of the copers' rants are hilarious.

[ElNono]

:lol lets blame manu

who gives a fuck about those 8 turnovers, we were up 5 with 28 seconds left, we got through all the bullshit until that moment.

It's not even that, tbh... Manu deserves every bit of shit after last night's game...

It's the emo/meltdown threads, copy-pasting the same shit on 25 different threads, hideous photoshops, and the whole "I've got street cred because I was watching the Spurs since they were the Chaparrals"...

Hopefully two or three off themselves if we lose tomorrow...

[100%duncan]

How would he catch a rebound in the paint after he is guarding the three point line?

Just asking. The rest of the copers' rants are hilarious.

Simple, he wouldn't guard Bosh's 3, let someone rotate to that and stay in the paint. Duh. :rolleyes

[pgardn]

100% fool has been told the same thing over and over. He does not agree.

Either do I but I can understand the REASONING.

Pops reasoning does not make any sense to people who already know the outcome. They find it impossible to put themselves in the situation BEFORE the play. It's a frontal lobe hate fixation. Van Gundy pointed out the same thing but disagreed with the reasoning.

[dbreiden83080]

Spurs were defending the three pointer not looking to get a defensive rebound. LeBron was the tallest player on the court when he made three and had Kawhi guarding him. That's a good matchup for the Spurs that I would take any day. Pop made a good substitution by taking Duncan out when Spo went with really small ball. No sense in Timmy chasing a small all over the court as one screen and that small has an easy look.

Tim Duncan is one of the best defensive players of all time he has 14 all defense selections, 8 first team.. So we take him out scared to death over him chasing around a small or that he was a bad matchup for the situation defensively???? Talk about peeing down your leg and showing ZERO faith in your players.. How would Jordan react to Phil benching him in that spot? "Bad match up Mike take a seat" "Go Fuck yourself Phil I am checking back in"

[ChumpDumper]

Simple, he wouldn't guard Bosh's 3, let someone rotate to that and stay in the paint. Duh. :rolleyesSo there would always be one guy wide open on the arc?

Good thinking, coach.

[LongtimeSpursFan]

Defending doesn't stop at stopping the 3, it stops when you get an defensive board.

Well with that logic then we should have played Duncan, Baynes, Diaw, Bonner and Splitter. But we don't...why? Because the Heat were going for a three pointer. Hence, Pops decision to matchup with guys that can defend the perimeter. Duncan is not a perimeter player.

[dbreiden83080]

Pop made a good substitution by taking Duncan out when Spo went with really small ball. No sense in Timmy chasing a small all over the court as one screen and that small has an easy look.

And what about when Bosh checked in??

[pgardn]

How would he catch a rebound in the paint after he is guarding the three point line?

Just asking. The rest of the copers' rants are hilarious.

It is very possible he ends up in the paint just like the 3 other Spurs that had a 3 way jump ball.

Yes, I think it is a reasonable assumption.

[HI-FI]

sometimes I think Pop does shit to prove the system is bigger than certain players. Yeah I know he says he is riding Duncan's coattails, but I think he let's his own ego get in the way at times. It's a sad human trait, Shakespearan at times, so let's hope they realize this and overcome the tragedy. It's do or die time, just gotta focus on doing what is right for the win. So if Manu is playing like peanut-ridden shit with hemerrhoid clots mixed in, you gotta pull him.

as bad as Manu has been in these playoffs, Pop has the power of veto, so if it starts at the top.....:hat.

[ChumpDumper]

It is very possible he ends up in the paint just like the 3 other Spurs that had a 3 way jump ball.

Yes, I think it is a reasonable assumption.37 year old seven footers tend to not move as fast as younger guards.

[dbreiden83080]

37 year old seven footers tend to not move as fast as younger guards.

No but they tend to box out 6'11 PF's..

[ChumpDumper]

No but they tend to box out 6'11 PF's..I know it's easy to get all emo about it, but percentages were played.

[slayermin]

I just don't think we were meant to win that game. They missed free throws. Things like that is just part of basketball and something you can't really feel bad about. I really think our guys are going to bring it tomorrow.

[pgardn]

37 year old seven footers tend to not move as fast as younger guards.
I would have to look at the play again to be sure. It almost looked like a jump ball because it spent what seemed a fairly long time in the air. A long shot and a big bounce off.

[ChumpDumper]

I just don't think we were meant to win that game. They missed free throws. Things like that is just part of basketball and something you can't really feel bad about. I really think our guys are going to bring it tomorrow.One can drive oneself crazy thinking of all the what ifs.

It's clear many here have already done so. I used to be the same. I stopped.

[Kidd K]

C) You don't bench Manu Ginobili. How many times have we seen him suck for 95% of the game before coming up big at the end? He's done that so often that it's expected at this point. Manu is a player you want on your team when the going gets tough. Sure, he didn't play well last night (yeah, that's being kind) but you don't bench him. Only hindsight would tell you he should have been benched.

There's a problem with this though. Ginobili was not just having an off shooting night, he was off at everything. In particular his passing and ballhandling was really making it extremely hard on us to get or keep control. Ginobili should have been benched in the first half (2nd quarter) when he constantly screwed up so he could sit on the bench and think about it going into and during halftime. Then come out with a chip on his shoulder and play better in the 2nd half.

Instead, Pop rode it out. . .and let him suck all the way into the half. Then he come sout of the half still sucking. Goes into the 4th still sucking. Ends the game choking. Then sucks again in OT throwing turnover after turnover then charging into a fully defended paint. It never changed because he never changed how he was playing. Pop rarely gave him the boot up the ass that he deserved to get.

It isn't just hindsight. During the game I was explaing to my girlfriend about why Pop isn't benching him when it seems extremely obvious that he should be. We started to talk about this in the 2nd quarter, and it extended to every quarter after that too. I thought Pop should have benched him roughly halfway through the 2nd when it was obvious nothing Manu was doing was positive, and left him there until halftime. Maybe it would've lit a fire under him. As the game went on and he continued to suck, it became harder and harder to justify keeping him in. Then of course, as we all know he chokes on the key free throw, commits two terrible turnovers AND charges into 3 Heat players to force up a stupid shot in OT to blow our last real chance at winning. He screwed us in every quarter AND in OT with his shitty play.

Yeah, we've seen Manu suck then turn it on. . .but he rarely turns it around anymore.

I get why Pop didn't bench him though: Manu just had a great game and Manu's potential is greater than anyone else he could've had in there. Sometimes guys just don't have it on a given night though and you have to go away from the liquid nitrogen cold hands of Ginobili and try something else even if the potential is less.

[Fabbs]

One can drive oneself crazy thinking of all the what ifs.

It's clear many here have already done so. I used to be the same. I stopped.
Nice deflection attempt Rumpy. :lol

[HarlemHeat37]

The problem I had with Duncan's touches is the looks he received, tbh..

It's easy to say he "ran out of gas", but his 2nd half touches were poorly strategies IMO..

Duncan has struggled all series outside of the post, yet the Spurs decided to play pick&roll and have Duncan catching the ball too far on most of his 2nd half touches..it was the same problem they had earlier in the series, where the Heat fronted Duncan and the Spurs didn't bother to move the ball around to get him in better post position, opting to run more pick&roll instead, tbh..

Duncan has struggled immensely outside of the interior in this series, but has completely dominated inside..I understand that he's old and gets worn out, but it didn't make sense to me to continuously ignore the option of getting him good post position, rather than running pick&roll against the best pick&roll defense in the league, along with Parker isolating against Lebron fucking James, tbh(he made the step-back 3, but that was one of the most difficult shots he's ever made)..

[SA210]

I must be one of the most ignorant posters on this board.
I was decapitated. The type of head I got through insurance was recalled.

[ChumpDumper]

Nice deflection attempt Rumpy. :lolDeflection of what?

Lots of things went wrong for the Spurs. Lots of things went right for the Heat.

It's important for you to pin it on one person, and your agenda dictates whom that person must be. It made you start a deflection thread.

[pgardn]

How cute SA210

You have learned to change quotes. It's a special ability for special needs.


Small bus arriving...

[dbreiden83080]

The problem I had with Duncan's touches is the looks he received, tbh..

It's easy to say he "ran out of gas", but his 2nd half touches were poorly strategies IMO..

Duncan has struggled all series outside of the post, yet the Spurs decided to play pick&roll and have Duncan catching the ball too far on most of his 2nd half touches..it was the same problem they had earlier in the series, where the Heat fronted Duncan and the Spurs didn't bother to move the ball around to get him in better post position, opting to run more pick&roll instead, tbh..

Duncan has struggled immensely outside of the interior in this series, but has completely dominated inside..I understand that he's old and gets worn out, but it didn't make sense to me to continuously ignore the option of getting him good post position, rather than running pick&roll against the best pick&roll defense in the league, along with Parker isolating against Lebron fucking James, tbh(he made the step-back 3, but that was one of the most difficult shots he's ever made)..

Duncan has picked up his offensive shooting immensely the last 2 games. He was shooting in the 30% range and now he is up to 50% at 18 a game.. We need more from him in the post again..

[Fabbs]

Deflection of what?

Lots of things went wrong for the Spurs. Lots of things went right for the Heat.

It's important for you to pin it on one person, and your agenda dictates whom that person must be. It made you start a deflection thread.
HumpTroll off the bench and in for the attempted deflection. :lol

[ChumpDumper]

HumpTroll off the bench and in for the attempted deflection. :lolI realize you can't explain what you are saying. It's jsut a throwaway line at this point.

Copers can never really back up their so called arguments. It's always ad hominem time. Especially now.

[easjer]

I blame Pop for some things and Manu and Tony for some things, with a sprinkle for Timmy, Danny and Kawhi too. I hated the lineup in the fourth. If Pop was really concerned about minutes, he ought to have sat one of them earlier in the third when they were having that great run. He could also have staggered their minutes. I think he's going to have to stagger Kawhi and Timmy more in the next game. Leaving it as late as he did was staggering, imo. That was the collapse that nearly killed them.

They didn't deserve to be in it when they were. That was sheer will to win. They almost did. I understand why (with some distance) Pop was making the choices he did, but I honestly can't say whether I'd want him to do it again or no.

Just hope for a different outcome tomorrow night. More people step up to play, they have a fighting chance.

[HarlemHeat37]

Duncan has picked up his offensive shooting immensely the last 2 games. He was shooting in the 30% range and now he is up to 50% at 18 a game.. We need more from him in the post again..

Because he's actually getting good touches, tbh..

He got great touches in game 1, game 5 and the first half of game 6..

The rest of the time, the Heat are fronting and the Spurs don't bother to run high-low or move it around, or they have him running a pick&roll..

[pgardn]

People are understandably pissed.

So we all play coach.

Some choose to assign blame based on long held assumptions, mainly because they can't stand to be wrong. It's amazing to get the feeling that so many posters would have the Spurs lose just to bolster a notion they cannot free themselves from.

[ChumpDumper]

People are understandably pissed.

So we all play coach.

Some choose to assign blame based on long held assumptions, mainly because they can't stand to be wrong. It's amazing to get the feeling that so many posters would have the Spurs lose just to bolster a notion they cannot free themselves from.I am really loath to put most of the blame on Manu. Still trying to accept that it happened tbh -- but that helps me consider other factors including Pop.

I'll not follow others down the rabbit hole though. They are losing their shit.

[DMC]

I felt the Spurs were going to lose last night. They played about as bad as they could play and were up 10 at the top of the 4th. I'll take that. The Heat probably feel like they won the ring already, though they will say differently. The celebrating was likely overdone and it's likely James had to settle them down and remind them they were facing elimination, not playing for the ring last night.

The Spurs, on the other hand, nothing tell you "get your shit right" other than a near death experience. They had one last night. They threw away the winning lottery ticket but they have an opportunity tomorrow night to get it back. Yesterday means not a damned thing right now, it's all about tomorrow, and I am not a "believe" person but I don't have the same feeling about tomorrow's game. I think the Spurs have the upper hand here, the hate, the anger, the whatever you want to call it. I think the Heat are high from last night and will still be high tomorrow. James, Wade and Allen probably won't be too high, but the rest of the team could be. They think it's theirs now. That could be their downfall.

Going into game 7, I would rather have lost a close one than have just won a blowout (other than the ring of course), because how we've responded this series when we had a great game. Same with them.

[SA210]

:lol Chump went into hiding after Pop's major meltdown collapse and then came back after timvp made a Pop bailout thread, then uses timvp's words :lol

[ChumpDumper]

:lol Chump went into hiding after Pop's major meltdown collapse and then came back after timvp made a Pop bailout thread :lolSA210 even fails at stalking me.

[SA210]

:lol using timvp's words

[SA210]

SA210 even fails at stalking me.

I posted in here first, copycat :lol "copers"

[ChumpDumper]

Just like you copy all my shticks. If it's good, why not, coper?

I notice you are only posting about me again -- you don't even give a shit about the Spurs compared to how much you are enamored with me.

[SA210]

:lol shticks

[ChumpDumper]

Yep, it's all about me and not the Spurs.

Thanks for proving it once again, coper.

[SA210]

Yep, I'm all about me and my post count, not the Spurs.

Thanks for proving it once again, that I get no pussy

[pgardn]

I am really loath to put most of the blame on Manu. Still trying to accept that it happened tbh -- but that helps me consider other factors including Pop.

I'll not follow others down the rabbit hole though. They are losing their shit.

Frustrated couch taters.
I think people need to get out and exercise till they drop.

[ChumpDumper]

Frustrated couch taters.
I think people need to get out and exercise till they drop.Well, SA210 has a special hatred for me because I made him look bad a few times -- but all the copers could use some perspective.

[SA210]

:cry Well, SA210 knows I have a special hatred for him because he made me look bad more than a few times -- exposed me for having no life at all, for being a troll that should have been banned a long time ago, and having more post count totals than even the forum owners. He embarrassed me badly, and I'll never get over my e-grudge against him, I need help against him!!!!. HELP!!! :cry

[ChumpDumper]

Oh man, playing forum cop now too. U mad.

You certainly stopped talking about the Spurs long ago.

I recommend keeping the flame attempts to one thread per forum. Others may be tiring of it.

[SA210]

Oh man, I report people, I'm mad.

I certainly stopped talking about the Spurs long ago.

[pgardn]

Jesus.

You did make it made.

Activate ignore feature.

[ChumpDumper]

Jesus.

You did make it made.

Activate ignore feature.It's a talent.

And a curse.

Kind of fun, though.

[SA210]

:madrun

[ChumpDumper]

Still only posting about me?

Shouldn't expect anything else. Helps you cope.

[SA210]

:lol 75,718

[hyhy]

Exactly what I have been saying, its not Pop's fault. And for the parker's case i think they were trying to trick miami into thinking they were going to call a timeout for parker to enter and instead push the ball..

[ChumpDumper]

_Still all about me.

I still recommend keeping the flame war in the Popsucker thread. You can keep bumping it with all the ad hominems you want. There was some good stuff going on here before you started coping all over the place.

[Obstructed_View]

Hey obstructed, what are your thoughts on Splitter this series? Shoule he be playing more? Should he start again?

He shouldn't even have started the fourth quarter.

[Obstructed_View]

The focus was still defending the three-point line.

No, the focus was defending and rebounding. Waiting for your list of who's better than Duncan at both. I'll wait.

[SA210]

Pop was wrong for benching Hall of Famer Tim Duncan and I'm mad about how he choked and made me look bad, but timvp made this thread so I came out of hiding now. Btw, I troll all over the forums and have done it for years, I ruin threads every which way I can, but it's ok bc this is me..


http://www.tifr.us/storage/post-images/Fat-Slob.jpg

[ChumpDumper]

No, the focus was defending and rebounding. Waiting for your list of who's better than Duncan at both. I'll wait.Well, defending the three point line. Duncan isn't the best at that.

[ChumpDumper]

_I'm not sure you can say I'm ruining this thread tbh.

[2centsworth]

Another thread down by Chump's trolling. Just post porno, same crap.

[ChumpDumper]

Another thread down by Chump's trolling. Just post porno, same crap.I tried.

[EIC]

Well, defending the three point line. Duncan isn't the best at that.

Only when there is likely to be screens and the potential for dribble penetration. But in a desperation catch-and-shoot situation, it's harder to imagine a better defender. Not to mention that Bosh was on the floor and although he has range, he is not the most nimble of shooters. Pretty sure Duncan could have played soft D at the three-point line against Bosh in that situation.

Taking Duncan out is inexcusable. Not fouling was inexcusable. Continuing to spell Parker and Duncan for long stretches while Manu was destroying our lead one turnover at a time was inexcusable.

[ChumpDumper]

Only when there is likely to be screens and the potential for dribble penetration. But in a desperation catch-and-shoot situation, it's harder to imagine a better defender. Not to mention that Bosh was on the floor and although he has range, he is not the most nimble of shooters. Pretty sure Duncan could have played soft D at the three-point line against Bosh in that situation.

Taking Duncan out is inexcusable. Not fouling was inexcusable. Continuing to spell Parker and Duncan for long stretches while Manu was destroying our lead one turnover at a time was inexcusable.There can easily be screens in such a situation. No excuses.

[ChumpDumper]

duplicate

[EIC]

there can easily be screena in such a situation. No excuses.

Fortunately, in approximately 1962, some basketball coach in the Midwest devised something called the "switch" whereby the guy defending the screener . . . wait for it . . . switches to the man for whom the screen was set. Thus, even in the worst case, Duncan would be left defending a player who is not shooting, which was Pop's entire point in taking Duncan out. The only difference is that, unlike a Duncan on the bench, the Duncan defending a player who did nothing more than set a screen would at least be in position to, I don't know, . . .

GRAB A FUCKING REBOUND.

[100%duncan]

Well with that logic then we should have played Duncan, Baynes, Diaw, Bonner and Splitter. But we don't...why? Because the Heat were going for a three pointer. Hence, Pops decision to matchup with guys that can defend the perimeter. Duncan is not a perimeter player.

You're stupid too, I guess. We only need TD and 4 perimeter defenders. Only Tim, to rebound. But you're stupid so it doesn't matter.

[100%duncan]

So there would always be one guy wide open on the arc?

Good thinking, coach.

Did you read the part "rotate"?

Read.

[polandprzem]

One thing I can blame POp for is playing Ginobili too much. Of course you want to give manu as many chance to click as there is but at this point you sit him. Pop would sit Duncan more for his poor play then Gino. No sense.

[Obstructed_View]

Well, defending the three point line. Duncan isn't the best at that.

Mmm...fail.

Since the Spurs were up by 5, they weren't only concerned about three pointers. Holding them to a single shot would make it worth having him on the floor, and Boris Diaw is in no way better at defending the three point line than Duncan.

[ChumpDumper]

Fortunately, in approximately 1962, some basketball coach in the Midwest devised something called the "switch" whereby the guy defending the screener . . . wait for it . . . switches to the man for whom the screen was set. Thus, even in the worst case, Duncan would be left defending a player who is not shooting, which was Pop's entire point in taking Duncan out. The only difference is that, unlike a Duncan on the bench, the Duncan defending a player who did nothing more than set a screen would at least be in position to, I don't know, . . .

GRAB A FUCKING REBOUND.


Did you read the part "rotate"?

Read.I did. Smaller players are better at switches. It's pretty simple.


Mmm...fail.

Since the Spurs were up by 5, they weren't only concerned about three pointers. Holding them to a single shot would make it worth having him on the floor, and Boris Diaw is in no way better at defending the three point line than Duncan.Sure he is. Now people are just making stuff up.

Look. It's really just the same people pushing the same agendas they always have and always will. It's beyond old. I know i'll never convince you and I'll never buy into your agendas either. If retconning every loss into an alternate reality win makes it easier to cope, good for you. I do things differently.

[sanman53]

If Duncan was in the game and RayRay makes the three, we would be looking back asking Pop why he didnt take Timmy out.

Its Game 7, Pop will have our guys ready.

[100%duncan]

I did. Smaller players are better at switches. It's pretty simple.

Sure he is. Now people are just making stuff up.

Look. It's really just the same people pushing the same agendas they always have and always will. It's beyond old. I know i'll never convince you and I'll never buy into your agendas either. If retconning every loss into an alternate reality win makes it easier to cope, good for you. I do things differently.

You're stubborn, like Pop. So any conversation with you you won't listen. Even if it's wrong. Well, do things that way tbh. Sure you have failed life a million times now with that reasoning.

[Jenks]

C) You don't bench Manu Ginobili. How many times have we seen him suck for 95% of the game before coming up big at the end?
How many times in these playoffs?

[urunobili]

I'll be here for them and this board no matter what. Thanks timvp :tu

[therealtruth]

I don't know is it easier to make a 3 over Boris Diaw or over a 7 ft All-NBA defensive center? Why don't we ask John Starks in game 6 of the Finals in '94 who he would rather have shot over?

[Blake]

Sure you have failed life a million times now with that reasoning.

I'm sure you're a complete success in life.


Emo? :lmao :lmao



FUCKING BITCH EMO ASS FAGGOT.

NOW STAY ON TOPIC.

FUCK YOU AND GREGG POPOVICH

[LongtimeSpursFan]

Mmm...fail.

Since the Spurs were up by 5, they weren't only concerned about three pointers. Holding them to a single shot would make it worth having him on the floor, and Boris Diaw is in no way better at defending the three point line than Duncan.

Spurs main concern was making it as difficult to shoot a three pointer and using as much time as possible. Three point shot rebounds tend to favor the shooting team as rebounds tend to be longer. Shooting teams can easily track down basketball miss as they are can see flight and trajectory. Quicker players on defense can defend pedometer and track down miss three pointer better than bigs. It's a good substitution to make at that point.

[pgardn]

Spurs main concern was making it as difficult to shoot a three pointer and using as much time as possible. Three point shot rebounds tend to favor the shooting team as rebounds tend to be longer. Shooting teams can easily track down basketball miss as they are can see flight and trajectory. Quicker players on defense can defend pedometer and track down miss three pointer better than bigs. It's a good substitution to make at that point.

This whole ordeal rests on the fact that many Spurs fans were already celebrating a 5th title. Up by 5 with 28 seconds against any good shooting team is not a done deal, but it was to our fans. So this is the particular incident of blame, because when bad things happen, THE incident must exist to mollify primal passions that refuse to look deeper into the entirety of the game.

We have dissected this chosen coaching decision endlessly. Very good points have been made on both sides.

So, what a shot by Ray Allen. Unbelievable dagger. The guy has hit yet another huge shot.
Shit, sorry. Can't give Miami credit. Even though they let us back into the game in the 4th quarter after Lebron looked like he had delivered a series of blows that had us reeling. They failed to keep the momentum after the timeout. Just forget anything else. Pop left Duncan out. It's right because its an EASY blame. Easy is good for 2nd guessers.

[dbreiden83080]

No, the focus was defending and rebounding. Waiting for your list of who's better than Duncan at both. I'll wait.

Duncan 2nd team all defense and 14 all defense selections was benched with 28 seconds left for defense and it probably cost them a championship..

That shit is enough to make you want to leap off a fucking building..

[Spurs21Fan4Ever]

The focus was still defending the three-point line.

Some of the most wide open threes come from offensive rebounds, everyone knows this. Besides, Duncan is tall, worst case scenario he gives up a layup who's is far less devastating, and I'm pretty sure Miami was so desperate they're only shooting threes at that point. To me there is no logic that justifies Pop's decision to take Duncan out at the end of the game.

[colargol]

For the life of me, I'll never understand why NBA coaches don't intentional foul when up 3 in an end game situation.

I've heard it rationalized because the most your opponent can score is 3, while there's a risk they can potentially score 4 (made freethrow + offensive rebound leading to a 3 point shot) if you put them on line. But I'd be willing to bet big money you have much better odds of winning the game by intentionally fouling and forcing your opponent to make a pressure freethrow and get the offensive rebound off the purposely missed second FT than just letting them shoot a 3 to send the game into OT, which always seems to favor the team who makes the big game tying shot.

Bosh should've been tackled once he grabbed that board. Or James, a known shaky FT shooter, should've been put on the line.

+1

[Agloco]

Duncan needed to be boxing out Bosh plain and simple. He had already collected 15 boards at that point with his 16th most likely clinching the championship. If the focus was defending the three, it's unnecessary to take Tim out since Bosh wasn't in there to shoot a three. We all know where the ball was going.

I also agree with the strategy of fouling, at least in the first circumstance being up 5 with the ball in LeBrons hands. Make him earn it from the stripe.

[DrSteffo]

The OP knows about basketball.

[ChumpDumper]

Duncan 2nd team all defense and 14 all defense selections was benched with 28 seconds left for defense and it probably cost them a championship..

That shit is enough to make you want to leap off a fucking building..If you're that emo, it might not be a bad an idea.

[dbestpro]

Pop screwed the pooch down the stretch mutiple times. You can say what you want, but the truth is the game will go down in history as one of the greatest choke jobs in sports by the players and in particular the coach.

[dbreiden83080]

If you're that emo, it might not be a bad an idea.

If you're that blasé you might want to log off....

[dbreiden83080]

Pop screwed the pooch down the stretch mutiple times. You can say what you want, but the truth is the game will go down in history as one of the greatest choke jobs in sports by the players and in particular the coach.

It will.. A game 7 loss tonight will not bring too many threads or reactions from fans and media about "What a great year" Just what could have and should have been.. It doesn't matter what was expected from this team at the beginning of year, all that is remembered is 28 seconds away with a 5 point lead..

[dbreiden83080]

Some of the most wide open threes come from offensive rebounds, everyone knows this. Besides, Duncan is tall, worst case scenario he gives up a layup who's is far less devastating, and I'm pretty sure Miami was so desperate they're only shooting threes at that point. To me there is no logic that justifies Pop's decision to take Duncan out at the end of the game.

The bottom line is if we break down the tape from other games this year Pop obviously did this with success but in this situation especially when Bosh checked back in, keeping Tim on the bench was the back breaker.. Bosh got the rebound easily without Tim on the floor..

[Spurs Brazil]

My only problem with Pop was the lineup tom start the 4th and I think he took to long to bring TD or Tony back. Heat cut the lead in 2 minutes

[DesignatedT]

My only problem with Pop was the lineup tom start the 4th and I think he took to long to bring TD or Tony back. Heat cut the lead in 2 minutes

TD got off the bench with like 10 minutes left in the fourth. IIRC

[elbamba]

My only problem with Pop was the lineup tom start the 4th and I think he took to long to bring TD or Tony back. Heat cut the lead in 2 minutes

I agree. With a ten point lead, at that point the Spurs should have been inviting James to take every shot he could. The Spurs made a huge mistake taking players away from Miami's three point shooters. I actually think the Spurs win in a blow out if they had not allowed those two threes to start the game.

[Spurs Brazil]

TD got off the bench with like 10 minutes left in the fourth. IIRC

I'd start the 4th with Tony and Manu and give Tony a rest when TD came back. Manu was too bad the be on the floor without Tony and Timmy

[2centsworth]

The bottom line is if we break down the tape from other games this year Pop obviously did this with success but in this situation especially when Bosh checked back in, keeping Tim on the bench was the back breaker.. Bosh got the rebound easily without Tim on the floor..

The great coach Spoelstra took advantage of Pop.

[ChumpDumper]

If you're that blasé you might want to log off....Nah, I finally learned watching a team win or lose has not much at all to do with me, so getting emo about it isn't the thing to do.

[ErnestLynch]

You foul you win that game.

[TD 21]

B) Benching Parker late is something I disagreed with in real time, especially since the Spurs weren't calling timeouts to put him back in. However, after the game Parker said he was cramping up. If TP can't go, then yeah you have to take him out. Not much to complain about there.

I don't care what type of shape he's in, at the very least Parker should have been in as a decoy. Anything other than a turnover machine going the length of the court at top speed into traffic.


D) It's easy to say TD should have been force fed more in the second half. But this season, we've seen a lot of examples of 37-year-old Duncan only having the wherewithal to play great for half the game. This is far from the first time that has happened. It's possible he could have done more in the second half with more touches -- but far from assured. A more likely scenario is his historic first half used up everything he had to give -- on the offensive end especially.

So predetermining what was going to happen instead of finding out for sure made sense? Clearly, that pace was unsustainable, but he has such an advantage over Bosh and Andersen and was so determined to get it done that he'd have probably willed himself to something in the high 30's.

[UZER]

Another head scratcher is on the final play for Danny, he has splitter setting the back screen 25 feet from the basket to which bosh sagged completely off of splitter,as he is no threat from downtown, and was so far away he was able to recover and get out on Danny Green (even as a 7' mind you), and block the shot.

So
1. Why did Pop set the back screen with Splitter which allowed the big to not have to come out and was there fore able to challenge green?

2. Everyone with everyone saying a big (ie Duncan) being in when only a 3 pt shot is needed is no smart because he can't get out and cover the three, what about bosh (a big) getting out on Danny and blocking his shot?

[UZER]

Double post

[ChumpDumper]

I don't think that play went as planned tbh.

[maverick1948]

I agree with Timvp. Not a problem. Someone left Allen to go for the rebound. Should have stayed home and little the ball bounce as it may. A 2 would have done them no good and 5.9 seconds can be an eternity or a snap of the fingers. Bosh can shoot the 3 but was there for rebounding purposes. We had exactly what we wanted and blow the play. We should be preparing for a HUGE Saturday night celebration. Ok we will go ahead and prepare the ATT Center for the celebration. Go Spurs Go

[Fabbs]

Originally Posted by CoachRumpHumper

If you're that emo, it might not be a bad an idea.


If you're that blasé you might want to log off....
:lol and start baking cookies for his PollyAnna Popper party tonight.

[ChumpDumper]

:lol and start baking cookies for his PollyAnna Popper party tonight.What do you cook to cope?

Or do you just sit in the dark, sobbing and mumbling nicknames to yourself?

[m33p0]

i blame the yellow rope, tbh.

[SA210]

Originally Posted by CoachRumpHumper



:lol and start baking cookies for his PollyAnna Popper party tonight.


:lmao impossible, she could never log off, it would hurt her post count

[therealtruth]

I agree with Timvp. Not a problem. Someone left Allen to go for the rebound. Should have stayed home and little the ball bounce as it may. A 2 would have done them no good and 5.9 seconds can be an eternity or a snap of the fingers. Bosh can shoot the 3 but was there for rebounding purposes. We had exactly what we wanted and blow the play. We should be preparing for a HUGE Saturday night celebration. Ok we will go ahead and prepare the ATT Center for the celebration. Go Spurs Go

I don't understand why NBA players don't learn how to box out. Instead they always jump for the rebound. Boxing out is done on the ground.

[Obstructed_View]

Duncan 2nd team all defense and 14 all defense selections was benched with 28 seconds left for defense and it probably cost them a championship..

That shit is enough to make you want to leap off a fucking building..
This.
The greatest defender of his generation, having one of the best seasons of his career, and his best game of the season, benched.

[GSH]

Just to be sure - you're calling it a group loss, but you're not totally exonerating Pop... right? He was a part of the group collapse? I don't think you can lay the whole thing on him, but I don't think you can leave him out of the mix. He over-thought at the end, and in real time or in retrospect, he could have handled thing a little better. His personnel decisions could have worked out, sure. But that doesn't mean they couldn't have been better.

If nothing else, he should have made it clear to everyone that they could give up a 2-pointer on either of those possessions, without fear. They should have known to stick to the perimeter players, no matter what. They could have conceded offensive rebounds to the Heat, as long as they stayed glued to the perimeter shooters - to the point of denying the pass to them. The Spurs had 3 players chasing down that first offensive board. There shouldn't have been any doubt in their minds that was the wrong play. The only way they could have lost at that point was to give up two 3-pointers. There's no way three players should have been in or near the paint, on that end of the floor. That wasn't just on the players - it's what Pop should have stressed in the time out.

[GSH]

+1

When you're only worried about a 3-pointer, letting a guy get a rebound in 2 point territory is an ideal situation. You foul your ass off - immediately. Anything else is stupid. That was stupid.

[HemisfairArena]

Blaming Pop makes no sense? Yeah...and blaming the sun for sunburn makes no sense either.

[SA210]

Bump

[Borosai]

Pop deserves plenty of blame.

[ChumpDumper]

Glorious coping.

[SA210]

Pop deserves plenty of blame.