I wonder if getting rid of Capt Jack hurt us?

[Gervin44Silas13]

Just saying!

[Chachachango]

nope

[TheGoldStandard]

Nope, miss the grittiness but he wasn't the X Factor of this series.

[Blizzardwizard]

:lol

[davidbowie]

on one hand i think about how he sucked pretty much all season. on the other im pretty sure he would've scored more than danny with all that pressure in games 6 and 7.

we'll never know. his selfishness caused his own demise and that's a shame.

[BatManu20]

I would've much rather have had him out there than aAnny fucking Green throwing up brick after brick and turning it over every time he dribbles. 1-19........

[FvckMavs]

He made the decision to leave us, tbh.

With him, we may not get to the finals.

[SA210]

Yes it hurt, bc regardless of sucking in the reg season, he is a playoff performer, and would get in a Spurs face to play with some balls.

But Pop had a bigger ego than SJax tho. Thanks Pop.

[timtonymanu]

Wow. I realized just how much I overrated Stephen Jackson just by reading this thread.

[TDomination]

Actually I was thinking about this yesterday. And though it really wasn't something like Pop really wanted to get rid of him because of his play or anything like that, it was his attitude.

But anyways, I really would have loved Jack there in game 7. You know he lives for those games. They had Battier, who has played pretty bad all year only to come up big when it matters most.

I can see Jack doing that, just like game 6 of last year.

Parker, Leonard, Manu, Jack, Kawhi would've been a nice lineup instead of having green in there. oh wel

[senorglory]

jesus christ, no.

[maverick1948]

NO!!!

[Budkin]

Game 7 of the Finals...

[TheGreatYacht]

Now that we know the Spurs didn't win the title it's easy to say that the Spurs missed Stephen Jackson. Perhaps they did or he could of helped but you got to ask yourselves something. Would Danny Green have developed into the type of player he turned out to be throughout the playoffs? Would Danny Green have produced the same spectacular performance in the NBA finals if the Stephen Jackson was around?

After all there are rumors out there that his references about being better than anybody else were references to Manu and Danny. Maybe Capt Jack would of turned it on in the playoffs and hit some big shots for us in Games 6 and 7. Maybe Green's would of never gotten out of his slump because most of you forget how terrible Danny Green was playing during the last month of the regular season.

We'll never know what would of happened had the Spurs had Capt Jack but on a personal note I would have much rather have Capt Jacks instead of Manu who cost Timmy his 5th ring. Manu sucked(s) balls and his legacy will forever be stained because of his pathetic performance in the NBA finals.

[Josh810]

We wouldn't even be in the Finals with that dude.

[phxspurfan]

It did hurt us. We lost a valuable win defender. The way this series went down, Jack would have been in our best defensive lineup:

Duncan on Bosh
Diaw on James
Leonard on Wade
Jackson on Allen, Battier or Miller
Parker on Chalmers

Manu riding the bench.



Instead, we had

Neal on Allen, Battier or Miller
and
Manu on Allen, Battier or Miller


Both got torched every time.

[ChumpDumper]

You guys didn't really watch Jack play this season.

[Stabula]

Jack had a shitty season but he still could have been used to eat minutes especially when other role players started shitting the bed.

[Poolboy5623]

Jacks shot is so slow, he would not have had any room/time to even get a shot off against Miami. His defense was good, but so is greens..spurs needed offense and rebounding, when the pressure was on. I thought their d was good enough to win. So no, Jackson wasn't needed.

[Poolboy5623]

Imo diaw would have been more useful, but pop didn't want to play him much even..jack would have seen the floor as much as Tmac did.

[Kidd K]

I don't know. Jack was terrible this year. . .and tbh, last year too until the ass end of the OKC series. Normally I would say fuck no. . .

But I wouldn't argue with "anyone but Ginobili" those last 2 games. I'd have chipped in to pay Jackson's salary if I had a guarantee Pop would've benched Manu and played Jackson in the 2nd half in both games instead. First half of game 6 too since Manu was at his worst at that point, but it would've been unreasonable to expect Pop to bench him until maybe halfway through the 2nd quarter after the game he has in game 5. So from that point on, I would've liked to see Jackson instead of Ginobili.

Even lazy, arrogant Stephen Jackson couldn't have been that shitty.

[dbestpro]

As close as the series was a little extra size on the outside could have made the difference. So, the short answer is, yes.

[tmtcsc]

No regrets. Game 6 WAS ours, it was over. Miracle of Miracles kept the cHeat alive to win game 7.

[KaiRMD1]

Jack would have played shitty defense on Lebron but guarantee he would have made at least 8 threes in game 7 or 6, just sayin

[ElNono]

But I wouldn't argue with "anyone but Ginobili" those last 2 games.

I would.

Then again, it was Jack that quit on the team, not the other way around... and I'll always be grateful to Jack, but that's that.

[angelbelow]

On paper, it probably was a mistake to let go of Jack. We needed an additional wing defender who could be physical and rebound well. Another shooter or potential ball handler would have been huge.

However, realistically, we simply don't know the full scope of the situation. Maybe he really was becoming cancerous, maybe Pop really was out of line, maybe Jackson was done and just wanted to work on his album etc.

[Poolboy5623]

No regrets. Game 6 WAS ours, it was over. Miracle of Miracles kept the cHeat alive to win game 7.

Watch the ending again...it wasn't a miracle by any means. Miami hit 2 out of 4 threes...spurs couldn't rebound or hit the needed fts..no miracle.

[Austin_Toros]

Spurs could have used Jack's D at times. But I don't think he would have made that much of a difference, espcially with how good Kawhi played.

[Knoxxx]

I think S Jax would have been a step slow on defense this series, though certainly will Allen, Miller and Battier in the picture we could have hidden that. I do believe he would have hit some clutch 3s for us.

But Pop was correct that we did not need him to beat the Heat. All we needed to do was make 3 of 4 free throws at the end of game 6 when Miami was desperation fouling.

[Prime Time]

Jackson would have played whenever Battier/Miller did. And considering his clutch shooting... Yes, Jackson would have made a difference.

[hater]

tbh I rather have capt Jack and all his bullshit over 8 turnovers in game 6

[TheGreatYacht]

tbh I rather have capt Jack and all his bullshit over 8 turnovers in game 6Pop made a monumental mistake. He should have cut Manu instead of Capt Jack. I'm pretty sure that Stephen Jackson could have hit that breakfast shot against GS.

[Knoxxx]

I was not in favor of cutting Jack just observed we should have won anyway. We can bash Pop, various players, and lament losing Jack but the simple fact was we choked on those FTs and that decided it.

The only positive in losing is we lost but I don't consider the Heat to have won. We beat them, then the universe turned upside down while they won the lotto and that was it. One good ping pong ball deserves another, or two in our case.

At this point I would encourage you to look forward rather than continuing to rehash every Pop decision, Manu turnover, etc.

[Kidd K]

I would.

Then again, it was Jack that quit on the team, not the other way around... and I'll always be grateful to Jack, but that's that.

I know you would, you love Ginobili and always defend him even when he's the worst player on the team on a given night.

Spurs need to start thinking of Ginobili as the insurance policy instead of trying to find one for him. I don't want him to be the first option after Tony and Timmy anymore. He just doesn't come through enough anymore. I would much rather have Nate Robinson, Jarret Jack, or someone like that instead. A dude who can run the backup point or play SG alongside Tony for awhile and do well in both roles.

We need someone besides Manu now. We can keep Manu, but I'm really over the only real option being Manu.

[rmt]

Don't see how not having a player that Pop would play didn't hurt the Spurs. His replacement, TMac, would never see any action as he doesn't know the system. We all know that SJax is a clutch, playoff performer - he would have given Pop options when every other player than TD and Leonard was stinking up the place. IMO, Pop is too much of a "dictator" - no one questions his decisions - so he coulda just told SJax to can all talk of contracts until the off-season and just call SJax's number for only x number of minutes.

[Sean Cagney]

Watch the ending again...it wasn't a miracle by any means. Miami hit 2 out of 4 threes...spurs couldn't rebound or hit the needed fts..no miracle.

Unlikely to happen but yes it has happened before with that much time on the clock and a few threes. Spurs had a similar one vs Memphis in 011 in game 5, too bad they lost the next game.

[ElNono]

I know you would, you love Ginobili and always defend him even when he's the worst player on the team on a given night.

Well, I don't, but that's beside the point.

I think the "anybody but Manu" on Game 6 is spot on, but not on Game 7. As a matter of fact, it's a 20+ point blowout without Gino. Especially since both Neal and Green got burn and couldn't dribble a ball.


Spurs need to start thinking of Ginobili as the insurance policy instead of trying to find one for him. I don't want him to be the first option after Tony and Timmy anymore. He just doesn't come through enough anymore. I would much rather have Nate Robinson, Jarret Jack, or someone like that instead. A dude who can run the backup point or play SG alongside Tony for awhile and do well in both roles.

Well, IMO, Kawhi should be the third option. I don't think even Pop wanted Manu as a backup PG. I think he wanted Neal to have that role, but Neal sucked ass at it.

Manu can still produce as the backup to Green in the SG spot (current Neal role), IMO.

I also think timvp might be onto something about the whole rhythm thing. But we won't know until next season, if he comes back.

[Kidd K]

Well, I don't, but that's beside the point.

I think the "anybody but Manu" on Game 6 is spot on, but not on Game 7. As a matter of fact, it's a 20+ point blowout without Gino. Especially since both Neal and Green got burn and couldn't dribble a ball.



Well, IMO, Kawhi should be the third option. I don't think even Pop wanted Manu as a backup PG. I think he wanted Neal to have that role, but Neal sucked ass at it.

Manu can still produce as the backup to Green in the SG spot (current Neal role), IMO.

I also think timvp (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=8) might be onto something about the whole rhythm thing. But we won't know until next season, if he comes back.

I can't really disagree with any of that except the game 7 comment. That's part of the "Jack instead of Manu" discussion. You're only talking about Neal and Green. The lack of a backup ballhandler besides Manu is entirely the point. Any ball handling player but Manu. . .which if we had to pick from the current roster would be Corey Joseph. He's gunshy, but at least he wouldn't commit 8 turnovers.

As for the rest of the post. . .I agree with all of it. I wouldn't mind Manu still being the backup SG, but we BADLY need a backup PG to handle the ball for him and let him mostly play off the ball. These are the "sexy choices", but I think Jarret Jack or Nate Robinson would be perfect. Both are available.

I'm not totally ready to give Kawhi the keys to the 3rd option role though. He's still got to improve, but that may happen this offseason. :)

[DieHardSpursFan1537]

Nah

[timmy2003]

Jack would have been useful in the Finals.

[ElNono]

I can't really disagree with any of that except the game 7 comment. That's part of the "Jack instead of Manu" discussion. You're only talking about Neal and Green. The lack of a backup ballhandler besides Manu is entirely the point. Any ball handling player but Manu. . .which if we had to pick from the current roster would be Corey Joseph. He's gunshy, but at least he wouldn't commit 8 turnovers.

I like Corey, I think he can be a really tough and good player, but really, the NBA Finals isn't a stage for rooks, especially rooks that didn't even play that much with the team through the season. There's simply way too much on the line. If Corey DOES turn the ball over 8 times, you simply won't hear the end of it, not to mention you can wreck a potentially good talent. The reality is that Miami is a defensive juggernaut, and that Manu was far from the only one that struggled against them. Tiago, Neal, that second unit just had a terrible time all series long except Game 3 (outside of Manu who had good/great Game 5 and 7).

People get caught up in the moment (and rightly so), but the story of the backup PG this season is fairly long, and for people that have been here all season, they should already know the twists and turns: Neal gets a tryout, and he sucks at it. Corey and DeColo end up competing for the spot, and neither really stands out enough to earn it. I still think Manu would be Pop's choice to put the ball in his hands to close games (for better or worse), but not necessarily the first option to run backup PG with the second unit.


As for the rest of the post. . .I agree with all of it. I wouldn't mind Manu still being the backup SG, but we BADLY need a backup PG to handle the ball for him and let him mostly play off the ball. These are the "sexy choices", but I think Jarret Jack or Nate Robinson would be perfect. Both are available.

I'm not totally ready to give Kawhi the keys to the 3rd option role though. He's still got to improve, but that may happen this offseason. :)

I am. I think we can start running plays for him. I think these playoffs have shown he can be a guy you can iso or run through screens and put him on a position to do damage.

I think both Jarret Jack and Nate Robinson are going to have plenty of suitors and are going to get paid this summer. Under those conditions, I doubt the Spurs will do much more than due diligence. I still think Pop's plan is to try to build one of CJ or DeColo into a solid backup PG.

[Russ]

tbh I rather have capt Jack and all his bullshit over 8 turnovers in game 6

Today's Jack actually turns the ball over quite a bit.

[Obstructed_View]

Sure it did. Too bad Jack couldn't keep his fucking mouth shut. By the time Pop asked him the question, he was gone.

[exstatic]

Danny Green caught fire almost the minute he left. We never would have seen a game 6 or 7 without Green's barrage of 3s. That never happens with Jack's poison in the locker room.

[ElNono]

Plus Jack played Kawhi's backup role. If Jack's departure forced Pop to play Kawhi more, that was actually a welcome development.

[blkroadrunners]

He would have been helpful in this series against Miami, but he'd be a cancer in the GS and Memphis series.

[bigfan]

I think getting rid of SJax was really, really bad. No idea why he was shitcanned and Ill bet he deserved it but it sure would have been nice, especially in the close a series, to have his badass around.

[Dverde]

Considering Pop never played T-Mac in meaningful minutes, I would say SJAX would have made the team better. I think we would have seen a lot of SJAX on LBJ and KL on Wade. Not sure if they would have won with him seems like basketball gods wanted the Heat to win with the rim in/outs FTs in game 6.

[HarlemHeat37]

:lmao Stephen Jackson would have been murdered against Miami's pressure defense..he can't even dribble anymore, and he's slow as fuck..

He was arguably the worst player in the NBA this season other than Austin Rivers..he's fucking atrocious and he would have been a liability against the Warriors, too..

The Spurs were a Pop blunder away from winning the title..these hypotheticals are irrelevant, considering they essentially had the title all but won..

[SenorSpur]

IMO, the only thing that hurt the Spurs in the Jack trade was losing that first round pick. A pick that GS used to select Festus Ezeli.