Rumor:Suns might let Johnson walk?

[milkyway21]

http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/story/3763758

Arizona Republic columnist Paola Boivin writes that the Suns may let restricted free agent Joe Johnson walk if he receives a five year, $70 million offer from the Hawks.

:elephant

[ducks]

they would be lucky to get back to the wcf without him

[usckk]

No way!!! Johnson makes the Suns so much better!

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

They're trying to call Atlanta's bluff, IMO.

[ducks]

JJ deal isn't time for Sarver to turn frugal

Jul. 15, 2005 12:00 AM

Suns season ticket renewals are due Monday, but an answer on Joe Johnson's future isn't. What seemed like a slam dunk days ago is looking more like a heave from half court because of Robert Sarver's growing concern about his team's payroll.

Caveat emptor. As you write that check today, know that the giddiness hangover of the postseason has been replaced by a vibe of uneasiness from several Suns officials who believe Johnson's return is no longer imminent.

The Atlanta Hawks are expected to sign the restricted free agent to an offer sheet worth approximately five years and $70 million on July 22. The Suns have the right to match the offer, and many assumed they would in order to keep much of last season's Western Conference title contender intact. But Sarver is concerned about the long-term implications the deal would have on his club, especially when Amaré Stoudemire's contract extension kicks in beginning with the 2006-07 season.
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If Johnson returns to the Suns, approximately $54 million would be committed to Johnson, Stoudemire, Shawn Marion and Steve Nash in 2006-07. With the reality of a salary cap and luxury tax - even when factoring in cap aids such as a midlevel exemption - the Suns will face challenges putting together a supporting cast. Sarver became a successful businessman by making decisions with his head, not his heart, and he has the bottom line and a profitability margin on his mind.

That's fine, except that the Suns have sent out signals for several months that closing a deal with Johnson was a priority. General Manager Bryan Colangelo said in April that "my priority No. 1 is to sign Joe Johnson. My other priority No. 1 is to sign Amaré Stoudemire to an extension."

Sarver has spoken many times of Johnson's greatness. Just two weeks ago, Stoudemire said: "I think the main thing right now is that we take care of Joe. I know Joe wants to be here."

Those remarks led many fans to commit money and emotions to Johnson's return. The Suns have sold about 2,500 new season tickets and expect to move another 500. That means nearly 12,000 season tickets to occupy an 18,422-seat arena, which could translate to quite a few sellouts.

Many of those fans wrote checks thinking Johnson would be back.

While some have suggested that Johnson might want to play for the Hawks, the truth is, it doesn't matter. As a restricted free agent, he belongs to the Suns if they match Atlanta's offer. And don't buy the suggestion that he could become a disruptive influence.

Not on a team with a unifying presence such as Nash. Not on a team that has a real chance to be successful.

Plus, Johnson's teammates like him and often have spoken in his defense regarding contract talks.

Which brings up another reason fans won't be too willing to cut Sarver slack if Johnson doesn't come back. The owner could have had him for about $20 million less if the team had signed Johnson to an extension a year ago.

"It wasn't the money to Joe in particular," Sarver said recently. "It was the money to the team in total not knowing what we had that was the key. Sometimes you make good decisions and sometimes you make bad decisions."

It's hard to believe losing two starters - Johnson and Quentin Richardson - from a team close to advancing to the NBA Finals would be a good decision.

And before they write any more checks, fans would like to know whether the Suns agree.



Reach Boivin at [email protected] or (602) 444-8956.

[Marcus Bryant]

Sarver needs to get out the chicken suit and put it on. Who the fuck pulls a stunt like that when an opponent has injured players?

Fuck him.

[tophy7]

Two posts from a suns board:

1)

"On 910 AM, Gambo is reporting that JJ actually wants to play for Atlanta. That his agent sold him on being the man there ... blah, blah, blah.

He's also not happy that we backed off the extension last year and that it's taking him signing a qualifying offer to get big money from us. He also feels like he may not see the ball much with guys like Amare and Shawn demanding it.

I'm not sure any of this matters. We still can match and that's all there is to it. But it looks like we could again be seeing the quiet, young, talented guy on the team actually consider a crap team. It's Dice Part 2: Electric Boogaloo."

2)

"I'm moving my posts here.

Gambo is saying that JJ actually wants to play for the Hawks, because he wants to be the man on that team, and become an All-Star.

Gambo says JJ is furious over the way things were handled, because they didn't lock him up last year, and now this year they didn't offer him the max.

Gambo added that although JJ loves playing with Nash, he doesn't like playing with Amare and Shawn, because he thinks there is some selfishness with them."

[Mr. Body]

Sarver must have realized how much jack he was shelling out in the next few years. In the end, I expect him to pay, though. And Marion get moved after this year.

[lordswing]

I hope the Hawks land JJ, another excuse for me to go to a Hawks game. If JJ comes to Atlanta, that seals it for me, I'm actually going to watch the Hawks *gasps* live

(watching your hometown team get blown out by 15 in the first half is not fun to watch, I can stand losing by 5 as long as it's close, :p)

[duncan_21]

Sarver must have realized how much jack he was shelling out in the next few years. In the end, I expect him to pay, though. And Marion get moved after this year.

That's what I'm thinkin.

[exstatic]

They already have two top shelf contracts in Nash and Matrix. You know Amare is getting one, too. They just may not be able to swing 4 hefty contracts, and still be able to put anything else on the floor. It was obvious that their short rotation didn't work over the long haul in the playoffs.

Hindsight is always 20/20, but I would have kept Q, and traded Matrix. You would have returned a QUALITY big man. From what I've seen, Matrix can shoot the unguarded 3, rebound, and run out on the break. Robert Horry can do those three things. Matrix doesn't handle particularly well, doesn't created for himself, and doesn't create for others. Nothing about that says Max Contract. Here are my ratings for Sun players from last season's upsides:

Joe J
Amare
Q
Matrix
Nash

Now, here's who I think their best players were:
Nash
Amare
JoeJ
Q
Matrix

[Catharsis]

Now, here's who I think their best players were:
Nash
Amare
JoeJ
Q
Matrix
Yeah, poor Marion. Everyone undervalues him. I guess Bowen does that to people.

As for Gambo, he's an idiot who knows nothing about anything. Seriously, he's a radio talk show host who blurts off his mouth constantly spewing out the most stupid things. He won't cite how he heard JJ prefers Atlanta and is now backtracking his comments.

The Suns will match the offer and they are financialy secure.

[Trainwreck2100]

That is alot of money to pay the JJ I don't think it would be fiscally smart to do it, but they will do it.

[thekingrobert]

JJ is a very nice player he would fit on a spurs roster but not for his asking price also I like him but Id love to see him try and lead a team like the hawks the 3s wont be as open so that 48% willl drop A LOT

[milkyway21]

They already have two top shelf contracts in Nash and Matrix. You know Amare is getting one, too. They just may not be able to swing 4 hefty contracts, and still be able to put anything else on the floor. It was obvious that their short rotation didn't work over the long haul in the playoffs.

Hindsight is always 20/20, but I would have kept Q, and traded Matrix. You would have returned a QUALITY big man. From what I've seen, Matrix can shoot the unguarded 3, rebound, and run out on the break. Robert Horry can do those three things. Matrix doesn't handle particularly well, doesn't created for himself, and doesn't create for others. Nothing about that says Max Contract. Here are my ratings for Sun players from last season's upsides:

Joe J
Amare
Q
Matrix
Nash

Now, here's who I think their best players were:
Nash
Amare
JoeJ
Q
Matrix

what? JoeJo & Q better than Marion? Hey I opposed to the Suns having 3 invites to the 2005 All-Star but I think Marion is better than those 2.

BTW, Q is gone already to Knicks.


JJ actually wants to play for Atlanta. That his agent sold him on being the man there ... blah, blah, blah.

He's also not happy that we backed off the extension last year and that it's taking him signing a qualifying offer to get big money from us. He also feels like he may not see the ball much with guys like Amare and Shawn demanding it.

i just hope when the time comes for amare to sign a new deal he won't bolt to other teams such as Lakers, Minny or Knicks...otherwise the Suns' fans will pull all Sarver's feathers :lol

[tophy7]

Yeah, poor Marion. Everyone undervalues him. I guess Bowen does that to people.

As for Gambo, he's an idiot who knows nothing about anything. Seriously, he's a radio talk show host who blurts off his mouth constantly spewing out the most stupid things. He won't cite how he heard JJ prefers Atlanta and is now backtracking his comments.

The Suns will match the offer and they are financialy secure.

From your team's board

Shawn Marion: 4 years $62M
Joe Johnson: 5 years $70M
Steve Nash: 4 years $44M
Amaré Stoudemire: 6 years $85M

Plus Kthomas and Raja Bell

How are they financially secure?

[exstatic]

mw21 - don't believe the hype. Marion's limitations were exposed in the WCFs. He's a creature of the running game, and when that is shut down, he struggles. He's a quality rebounder, and a good spotup shooter. Q and JJ can both get their own shot.

[SenorSpur]

It's their own damn fault. They should've signed JJ to an extension last summer - they would have saved 20 mil. Teams should realize NBA player salaries are not GOING DOWN. DUMB ASSES!

[ducks]

trading marion instead of q would have been smarter


marion has struggled in the playoffs before
lossing jj would be very bad for suns

[ducks]

are suns hoping mavs cut finely and sign him instead?

[clubalien]

maybe we should trade for Amare so they can afford to pay Johnson or we could use nash too
I know during the Kidd FA period some people wanted marion

[Horry For 3!]

I would laugh if Joe J went to the Hawks, would suck for the Suns.

[duncan_21]

mw21 - don't believe the hype. Marion's limitations were exposed in the WCFs. He's a creature of the running game, and when that is shut down, he struggles. He's a quality rebounder, and a good spotup shooter. Q and JJ can both get their own shot.


He's a better reincarnation of cedric ceballos. He's a great athlete but is limited in most aspects of the game.

[Spursdaone]

They already have two top shelf contracts in Nash and Matrix. You know Amare is getting one, too. They just may not be able to swing 4 hefty contracts, and still be able to put anything else on the floor. It was obvious that their short rotation didn't work over the long haul in the playoffs.

Hindsight is always 20/20, but I would have kept Q, and traded Matrix. You would have returned a QUALITY big man. From what I've seen, Matrix can shoot the unguarded 3, rebound, and run out on the break. Robert Horry can do those three things. Matrix doesn't handle particularly well, doesn't created for himself, and doesn't create for others. Nothing about that says Max Contract. Here are my ratings for Sun players from last season's upsides:

Joe J
Amare
Q
Matrix
Nash

Now, here's who I think their best players were:
Nash
Amare
JoeJ
Q
Matrix

Amare should be first in both categories. Nash is not the best player on the team and Joe doesn't have more upside than Amare. Q. is not better than Marion. Marion doesn't get noticed for all the little things he does. He can run the floor better than Horry, and rebound better than Horry, and defends better. Your analysis is one dimensional.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

No one's going to take a maxed out Marion. He's been exposed in the playoffs twice as someone who is easily shut down by anyone who plays any semblance of defense.

They're stuck with that contract.

[ChumpDumper]

No one's going to take a maxed out Marion. He's been exposed in the playoffs twice as someone who is easily shut down by anyone who plays any semblance of defense.

They're stuck with that contract.I'd call Zeke first -- lightning can strike twice.

[JsnSA]

They're trying to call Atlanta's bluff, IMO.

How exactly are they trying to call Atlanta's bluff?

That doesnt make sense.

Now Atlanta going ahead and making an offer to Joe after Phoenix said they would match any offer...that would be Atlanta calling Phoenix's bluff.

But there is no bluff for Phoenix to call. Atlanta wants to sign Joe...its as simple as that. And they have the money to overpay a bit.

All that is going to come from these rumors that Phoenix might let Joe walk is that it will be even MORE likely that Atlanta will make Joe an offer...thinking that Phoenix is bluffing when they say they will match.

[picnroll]

One scribe specualted that somewhere before the trade deadline the Suns would move Matrix for Tim Thomas and his expiring contract.

[wildbill2u]

The salary cap is not rising as fast as the escalation of player salaries as teams fight to add stars to their squads.

New owners with lots of money are trying to buy championships with big contracts to FAs (example: Nash to Phoenix) and that drives up the price of players overall. As someone posted earlier, Phoenix now finds itself in the position of having to pay most of their cap money to a few stars on the starting five which would leave them with zilch for the bench.

That business model is breaking down. And letting JJ go may be the first sign of the breakdown.

[Kori Ellis]

Suns' Johnson starting to get anxious
Story Tools: Print Email XML
DIME Magazine / Dime Magazine
Posted: 3 hours ago

http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/story/3765426

Joe Johnson is terrified right now. The Suns are apparently having second thoughts about matching the Hawks' offer for Johnson. The Suns have a new owner and we're not sure that he's ready to shell out the necessary $70 million over 5 years. New Sun Raja Bell is good, but not Johnson good. This story isn't over. ...

And just when the Larry Brown drama cools down, Pat Riley¹s heats up. People are insisting that Riley will be back on the sideline for the Heat next season while Riley and the Heat keep flat out denying it. ...
Welcome back Ron Artest. Ron Ron balled for the Pacers' summer league squad in the Minnesota summer league and dropped 23 in his first game in a long, long, long time. ...

Guess who showed up in Orlando to partake in the AND 1 Mixtape Tour festivities? Your favorite fantasy quarterback and ours, Daunte Culpepper. Culpepper, along with Darrel Armstrong, went at the AND 1 crew and won 112-108. ...

Somehow the Cavs are undefeated in Vegas Summer League with Blake Stepp leading their team in scoring. The Celtics come at you with Al Jefferson and Tony Allen, the Blazers with Outlaw and Telfair, the Mavs with Marquis Daniels, and somehow the Stepp and Luke Jackson-led Cavs haven't lost. Yesterday's Cavs game was particularly ugly. They won 58-54 over the Blazers. ...

The Nuggets have exercised an option to keep Voshon Lenard this season. We caught Voshon in person last season, and let's put it this way, he wasn't in shape. ...

Oh how we¹ll miss the flop. We reported it the other day, but it is official, Vlade Divac has announced his retirement from the NBA. Vlade's career numbers end at 11.8 points, 8.2 boards, and 3.6 flops per game. We'd be lying if we said we wouldn't miss the classic Vlade exasperated face. Come on, you know the face. ...

Now it looks more and more likely that Luis Scola won't be with the Spurs next season after all. Scola has been unable to buy out his contract overseas and the Spurs signing of Fabricio Oberta seems to insinuate that Scola won't be a Spur next season. ... The New Orleans Hornets have signed Lithuanian shooting guard Arvydas Macijauskas to a three-year contract. This kid can flat out shoot. ... We're off to Vegas for the next 24 hours to catch the Hopkins/Taylor fight. Our prediction? Jermain Taylor by decision. Bad Intentions, baby. ...

[ducks]

if jj does not want to be a hawk why should he sign the offer sheet

[ChumpDumper]

$

[ducks]

suns maybe trying to call jj's bluff

[ChumpDumper]

Yeah, Atlanta doesn't have alot to lose at this point besides overpaying JJ a few years.

Calling a Hawks bluff would entail the Suns' offerring a sign and trade before the offer sheet is signed. That would push JJ's price even higher.

[timvp]

This should remind Spurs fans how lucky it was for the Spurs to extend Parker last summer. He got a six-year, $66M contract, which is a good chunk of change. But if Holt would have held to his guns and not sign Parker, Parker would have easily been offered something close to the $70M over five years that JJohnson was offered.

A 23-year old point guard with two championship rings would have made a whole lot of sense to teams like the Hawks, Cavs, Clippers and Bucks.

[usckk]

This should remind Spurs fans how lucky it was for the Spurs to extend Parker last summer. He got a six-year, $66M contract, which is a good chunk of change. But if Holt would have held to his guns and not sign Parker, Parker would have easily been offered something close to the $70M over five years that JJohnson was offered.

A 23-year old point guard with two championship rings would have made a whole lot of sense to teams like the Hawks, Cavs, Clippers and Bucks.

Yep! All you crazy people that want to trade Parker are insane.

[SenorSpur]

Yep! All you crazy people that want to trade Parker are insane.

Give the Spurs management and Holt, in particular, a lot of props for coming to their collective senses. Of course, it took some prodding from both Pop and TD to make it happen.

Again, NBA salaries go only one way - UP!

[mavsfan1000]

The way players are getting overpaid these days I was surprised that Parker didn't get offered the max. Joe Johnson is not good enough to be a max player in my opinion.

[ChumpDumper]

The way players are getting overpaid these days I was surprised that Parker didn't get offered the max.He would've had he been a free agent.

[SenorSpur]

I would still trade him for Kidd, and even Marbury

Why the hell would anyone suggest that?

Kidd, abeit is a better playmaker, but he makes way more money, is a helluva lot older and slower and - after 10 years in the league - STILL CAN'T SHOOT.

Makes no sense.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

I would still trade him for Kidd, and even Marbury

Shawn Michaels, you're doing a very good job of proving that no one knows less about basketball than you.

Keep it up, you're working on becoming a legend. You make Isiah Thomas look competent.

[tophy7]

http://www.realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/36669/20050716/suns_may_look_to_knicks_for_cap_room_again_this_ti me_marion/

CNNSI - Sports Illustrated's Ian Thomsen reports that Isiah Thomas might take a run later at Phoenix forward Shawn Marion, whose remaining deal for four years and $63 million could become prohibitive if the Suns retain Joe Johnson and re-sign Amare Stoudemire to max deals.

By sending Kurt Thomas to Phoenix last month for Quentin Richardson, Thomas essentially supplied the Suns with Marion's replacement at power forward. If the Suns are intent on wiping Marion off their books, trading him to New York prior to the February deadline for the expiring $14 million contract of Tim Thomas would be a logical move.

[mavsfan1000]

This is good news that Atlanta offered that contract to Joe Johnson. I hope Phoenix lets him go. They will not be the same without him. San Antonio and Dallas would be the top in the west in my opinion without Joe Johnson and an aging Nash.

[mavsfan1000]

The suns would be stupid to trade Marion because he is their best rebounder and defender. He is more important to that team than Joe Johnson. Even though he is overpaid they will not be the same without Marion. Dallas would own them and Dirk would go off if Phoenix loses Marion because Stoudemire and K. Thomas won't be able to guard him..

[exstatic]

Well, they've already replaced his rebounding with Kurt Thomas, and Johnson is easily twice the offensive force that Marion is. Marion is good on the break, and for spot up jumpers. That's it. He can't handle or create. Johnson can, both for himself and for others. I would even go so far as to say that they should have kept Q, and done the Matrix for Tim Thomas trade this summer.

I like Matrix, but he's a complementary player being paid the MAX. His numbers are inflated by the run and gun system he's in.

[mavsfan1000]

Marion's the guy that shut downs Dirk. No one else on that team can do that. Kurt Thomas would get embarrassed by Dirk. It already happened when Dallas was up on New York by 39 at halftime. Kurt Thomas is a joke on defense. Dirk would much rather Kurt or Stoudemire guard him than Marion. Joe Johnson is a great player but is just a role player. Marion's high flying game is more important to Phoenix. It also wore Dirk down to have to run the floor after every basket to keep up with Marion. Dirk had 23 points in 25 minutes against New York. That shows how great Kurt Thomas is.

[exstatic]

Is Dallas their target, or is SA? Oh, as for that high flying shit? That don't get you a trophy. You, as a Dallas fan should know that.

Matrix is good, but Johnson has the possibility to be great. He's still unfolding facets of his game. Believe me, the BEST thing for SA would be if Phoenix lets Johnson walk on a MAX offer and keeps Marion. SA's game is defense, and Marion is FAR easier to defend than Johnson.

[mavsfan1000]

Is Dallas their target, or is SA? Oh, as for that high flying shit? That don't get you a trophy. You, as a Dallas fan should know that.

Matrix is good, but Johnson has the possibility to be great. He's still unfolding facets of his game. Believe me, the BEST thing for SA would be if Phoenix lets Johnson walk on a MAX offer and keeps Marion. SA's game is defense, and Marion is FAR easier to defend than Johnson.

First off, Phoenix can't lose anyone if they want a chance for a title next year. Marion is more important to that team because there really isn't a replacement for a player that is extremely athletic and able to shut down players on the other team while being a tough matchup on the other end. No Marion means Bruce Bowen can guard Joe Johnson all the time. No Marion means Dallas can beat Phoenix. There are alot of shooting guards that can hit the 3 but there aren't too many players like Marion who can rebound that well while causing tough matchups at the power forward. Marion doesn't have to make plays because Nash is the one that does that. Not everyone has to create on the team. Marion can hit the 3 or take a dribble and shoot the midrange 2.

[exstatic]

Except Marion won't be playing the 4 this year. Amare had a snit, and now the frontline will be Marion at the 3, Amare at the 4, and Thomas at the 5. As for playmaking, Nash isn't the most durable player, or any kind of ironman. You need SOMEONE else to set up and initiate your offense. According to their budget, the Suns are going to lose someone, since they don't want 4 MAX or near MAX deals. I say that Marion, as a 3, is the smaller loss between him and Johnson. You disagree.

[mavsfan1000]

Except Marion won't be playing the 4 this year. Amare had a snit, and now the frontline will be Marion at the 3, Amare at the 4, and Thomas at the 5. As for playmaking, Nash isn't the most durable player, or any kind of ironman. You need SOMEONE else to set up and initiate your offense. According to their budget, the Suns are going to lose someone, since they don't want 4 MAX or near MAX deals. I say that Marion, as a 3, is the smaller loss between him and Johnson. You disagree.

Marion will be the backup 4 and Amare the backup 5 so losing Marion will shrink their frontcourt even more than now. This would force Voskuyl to get at least 16 minutes a game as a backup 5. This is what you are missing. Their bench is too thin in the frontcourt to lose Marion. They will still play small when K. Thomas is out. Bell and J. Jackson and possibly Finley can fill in for Joe Johnson though not quite as well but serviceable. That is why Marion is more important.

[exstatic]

We'll have to disagree.