More from Ludden on Scola

[Sii]

someone from another site e-mailed him on why there was two buyout figures


I was in Spain with RC in December when he talked with Tau's management. The $14.5 million figure has always been there. It hasn't been publicized because the Spurs thought the contract wouldn't stand. Now, after having their lawyers look at the deal, they're skeptical they would win an arbitration case. Scola's people think they can get the buyout to $3 million, the figure for a first-round pick. To which the Spurs' reaction is, "Then do it and take our offer." For some reason, Scola hasn't.

[boutons]

"For some reason, Scola hasn't."

The reason might be that Tau has not signed off on the $3M number, so the "If $3M, Spurs pay" condition and offer has not been made.

I can't see Tau giving up $11M. Who would? They may figure they've lost Luis' good will anyway, so Tau may now just grab the $14M. Since the Spurs won't go for $14M, Tau knows they can write off a pissed-off Luis and let him rot on the bench next season. That would also mean Tau would lose all buyout while Luis sits out his contract another year.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Tau knows they can write off a pissed-off Luis and let him rot on the bench next season.

That's flawed rationale if I ever saw it. If it comes down to getting 3 mil for the buyout or watching him sit and leave for 1 million, that's still 2 million difference.

Tau is a business, you know...

[bigbendbruisebrother]

I know the Spurs as a team are limited to contributing 350K for the buyout, but I have read in another thread the accusation that Holt is cheap for not personally paying the $3M buyout (if that's in fact what it comes down to). I'm confused by the contradiction. Is it even legal for Holt, even if he wanted to, to personally cough up more dough for Scola?

[ChumpDumper]

The Spurs would pay the buyout through Scola's salary.

[boutons]

"That's flawed rationale if I ever saw it."

The Spanish team owners are supposedly very hard-nosed. Such situation may not make sense to Tau alone, but it would sure send a signal to all Spanish players and NBA teams.

[weebo]

What difference does it make if we get Scola or not? If he comes fine, but if he doesn't we should be fine with our 4s and 5s. With Orberto now signed, we really don't need him. As it is now, Scola is an unknown NBA commodity anyway. Sounds like he is more hype than substance as it tranlates on an NBA level. Maybe Pop and the FO see Scola as expendable and are not as high on him after selecting Ian. The last thing anyone on this board should be doing is second guessing one of the best FO's in all of professional sports.

[rayray2k8]

Scola was the guy they wanted FIRST, after Robert Horrys signing..
I think whats going on is that maybe the spurs are talking to another free-agent
(a SAR or D marshall perhaps?) and really dont need another 4 or 5 right now, but are in need of a SF. And i think im right since SAR did say he would say where he was going during the week.... So why the delay?
stay tuned spurs fans

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

it would sure send a signal to all Spanish players and NBA teams.

Yeah, don't sign a stupid contract with Tau.

As for SAR, why does everyone expect it to be done in a week? It's typical player-agent PR.

[SequSpur]

Why does this warrant a new topic?

[Walton Buys Off Me]

Fuck Scola, I don't know too many people that wouldn't jump at the chance to play for the greatest coach in professional sports and on a team that features two of the top five players in the NBA.

Sit back, each more nachos and watch the Champs wallop ass in two double o six bitch!

Stop wasting CIA's time.

[Athenea]

"That's flawed rationale if I ever saw it."

The Spanish team owners are supposedly very hard-nosed. Such situation may not make sense to Tau alone, but it would sure send a signal to all Spanish players and NBA teams.
It's not the first time Tau has had problems with a player or a contract. So far they've won the cases taken to a third partie.
But from a bussiness point of view in this particular case (considering Scola is one of the most respected, famous and important players in Europe) it could damage Tau's reputation. If I were a player I would go: "If they can hurt Scola's career, what could they do to mine?".

[picnroll]

Is a ten year contract with a huge buyout signed by a 17 year old commonplace or was Scola exceptionally dumb?

[GrandeDavid]

This is the post of the day. Thanks, TimDuncanManu.

[Marcus Bryant]

Look, it's clear that the Spurs wanted Oberto this summer. They have Scola's NBA rights. He's going nowhere in the NBA until they say so. Obviously, if they wanted, they could have brought him over this summer, but they didn't.

So they bring Oberto in now. They gave him a 3 year deal so at the end of that contract they'll have his full Bird rights. They can wait on Scola.

[Athenea]

Is a ten year contract with a huge buyout signed by a 17 year old commonplace or was Scola exceptionally dumb?
Some players had signed 20mill buyouts.
Besides... can u say u knew Argentina had bball players 10 years ago that could make it in the NBA?

ps: Heck! I would say u didn't even know that San Pablo is not in Argentina and that Brazil and Argentina r different countries...

[picnroll]

ps: Heck! I would say u didn't even know that San Pablo is not in Argentina and that Brazil and Argentina r different countries...
I aced geography. I haven't seen many Euros tide up in knots like Scola is with his contract. Name me a few.

[Dex]

It's dumb to sign a 10-year contract for anything. Lord knows what is going to be happening a decade from any time.

[Athenea]

I aced geography. I haven't seen many Euros tide up in knots like Scola is with his contract. Name me a few.
U didn't answer my first question :)

[ChumpDumper]

Sounds pretty cut and dry. Scola's camp said they could get the buyout down to $3 million. Spurs said ok, do it. Scola's camp didn't or couldn't and the Spurs decided not to wait any longer.

[picnroll]

U didn't answer my first question :)

Why did Manu, Walkowyski, Sanchez, Nocioni all have less restrictive contracts and the ability to move to the NBA. Even Oberto has moved from team to team with the ability to jump to the NBA in the past if the right offer were there. Only Scola, of all the Argentinians and one who's come through the ranks after some Argentinians had shots at the NBA, got locked into this bad (stupid) of a contract.

[wildbill2u]

Not all deals are makeable. This Scola contract with an outrageous buyout makes the deal unmakeable. So you move on and wait on Scola and look for a better deal.

[Marcus Bryant]

What's better: Oberto now and Scola in a year or Scola now and no Oberto ever?

Hmmm...

[Athenea]

Why did Manu, Walkowyski, Sanchez, Nocioni all have less restrictive contracts and the ability to move to the NBA. Even Oberto has moved from team to team with the ability to jump to the NBA in the past if the right offer were there. Only Scola, of all the Argentinians and one who's come through the ranks after some Argentinians had shots at the NBA, got locked into this bad (stupid) of a contract.
Here we go again...
Scola renegotiated his buyout clause before the draft when both he and Nocioni were considered eligible. That way the initial clause was a protection from other Spanish clubs to steal Scola from Tau (considered a small team among soccer ones like Barza and RealMadrid). After that the b/o was around 2 mill euros w/the black hole in case Luis was drafted in the 2nd round.
Scola was supposed to be big for bball since he was 15 years old. Oberto was the other guy that was considered w/a great future but back in the days, the b/os were more reasonable. Manu and Nocioni improved playing in Europe. Nocioni had a bigger b/o than Scola (5mill euros) but being undrafted helped him to get a bigger contract.

[Athenea]

What's better: Oberto now and Scola in a year or Scola now and no Oberto ever?

Hmmm...
In the long run, this is the best for the Spurs. I would like that things were handled differently esp when Ludden comes out w/a bs article.
We r fans but not stupid (bah...most of the day... :oops ).

[picnroll]

Athenea you've argued two different angles one where it was not unreasonable for an unknown Argentinian, in a land where Argentinians weren't NBA prospects, to sign a long term deal and the other where he was almost a sure bet first rounder.

It was a bad contract. A contract that leaves large unknowns is a bad contract. A good lawyer doesn't make those mistakes. Unlikely that that mistake will be made again. I don't fault Scola, he was a 17 year old kid. His agent sucked though.

[Brodels]

Fuck Scola, I don't know too many people that wouldn't jump at the chance to play for the greatest coach in professional sports and on a team that features two of the top five players in the NBA.

Sit back, each more nachos and watch the Champs wallop ass in two double o six bitch!

Stop wasting CIA's time.

Would you 'jump at the chance' to play with the champs if you had to come up with millions you probably didn't have to do it?

It's obvious that getting out of his contract is going to be difficult. If it could be done easily, it would have happened by now.

I don't think it's a matter of Scola not wanting to come over. It's a matter of money. If he signs a three year deal and gets all the money up front with the Spurs for, say, $9 million, he's going to have to come up with another five or six million just to play in the NBA. He's just not going to able to do that.

But I can't blame him for wanting to come over. He's trying his best to get the Spurs to wait, and that's what I would do in his situation.

The Spurs can't wait, and he has to understand that. The Spurs made out very well by getting Oberto and keeping the rights to Scola. Luis simply has to understand that it's really his own fault and that he's going to have to stick it out. If you sign a big contract for ten years, you've got to expect that you'll be forced to live up to your obligations.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

If he signs a three year deal and gets all the money up front with the Spurs for, say, $9 million, he's going to have to come up with another five or six million just to play in the NBA. He's just not going to able to do that.

He's made like 14 million in Europe. How bad does he want to come? Shoulda been saving up some of that money for a buyout just in case, instead of expecting the Spurs to shell out a ridiculous amount for him.

[Kori Ellis]

Thanks for posting this info. It explains why most places always had a $2-4M buyout figure. It just didn't get lowered - no one is at fault. But I don't understand why Scola would be upset with the Spurs - he should be equally, if not more, upset with Tau.

[spurster]

Sounds pretty cut and dry. Scola's camp said they could get the buyout down to $3 million. Spurs said ok, do it. Scola's camp didn't or couldn't and the Spurs decided not to wait any longer.
What Chump said, I agree with.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

But I don't understand why Scola would be upset with the Spurs - he should be equally, if not more, upset with Tau.

I think with Scola his problem with the Spurs is that his ego is getting in the way, and he's pissed they didn't offer him the full MLE for 5-6 years.

He really needs to be upset with his agent though, what kind of a moron signs a 10 year contract like that?

[Solid D]

Johnny's email info, if true, certainly has the ability to make all of the "Judge Judy's" with the quick gavels come to a change of opinion & judgement. Please see the expired CBA explanation below of what is allowed for buy-out signing bonuses each year ($350K) and over the entire term of the contract (no more than 25% of).

http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm

60. How about signing bonuses? Are they allowed? How do they count against the cap?

Teams are allowed to offer the players they sign a bonus worth as much as 25% of the total compensation, and may do so whether or not the team is over the cap. If a player has a signing bonus, that bonus is averaged among the guaranteed years of the contract (not including any option years) and added to the team salary during those years. This can create a problem if the player is signed to an exception or to the maximum salary. For instance, if the Mid-Level exception is $5 million, then a team could sign a player to a five-year contract with 10% rasises, as follows:

Year.....Salary
Year 1 $5,000,000
Year 2 $5,500,000
Year 3 $6,000,000
Year 4 $6,500,000
Year 5 $7,000,000
Total $30,000,000

The maximum (25%) signing bonus is $7,500,000, It must be allocated in equal proportion to each season of the contract ($1,500,000 per season, assuming no option years). This means that in order to fit the first-year salary plus the portion of the signing bonus allocated to the first season within the $5 million exception, the first-year salary must be reduced:

Yr Base salary Portion of signing bonus Total
1 $3,846,154 $1,153,846.................$5,000,000
2 $4,230,769 $1,153,846.................$5,384,616
3 $4,615,385 $1,153,846.................$5,769,231
4 $5,000,000 $1,153,846.................$6,153,846
5 $5,384,616 $1,153,846.................$6,538,462

Tot $23,076,924 - - - - -.................$28,846,155

Note that in order to fit the first-year amount (salary plus bonus) within the $5 million exception, the first year salary had to be reduced to $3,846,154 (20/26ths of the amount of the exception). This also has the effect of reducing the total contract by $1,153,845, which is the repurcussion of giving the player money up-front.

In addition, the following are treated like signing bonuses:

-Payments in excess of $350,000 that are made to non-NBA teams or federations to release rights to a player.

-Option buy-out amounts .

[timvp]

I was in Spain with RC in December when he talked with Tau's management. The $14.5 million figure has always been there. It hasn't been publicized because the Spurs thought the contract wouldn't stand. Now, after having their lawyers look at the deal, they're skeptical they would win an arbitration case. Scola's people think they can get the buyout to $3 million, the figure for a first-round pick. To which the Spurs' reaction is, "Then do it and take our offer." For some reason, Scola hasn't.

There's still something fishy. Scola's camp swears that they never got a contract offer from the Spurs. Ludden's above info indicates that the Spurs offered him a contract ... yet even if they did, it wouldn't be official until the 22nd.

I think both Tau and the Spurs are lying to some degree. But if you think about, it could be best for both organizations if Scola stays there a year or two longer. The Spurs get Oberto (who fills more of a need) and Tau keeps their best player. The Spurs get let Scola develop overseas longer while still keeping his rights.

Win, win for both teams.

[Solid D]

On a 3-year contract, only $1,050,000 ($350K/yr) is allowed as a signing bonus for buying out contracts by the NBA.

That leaves roughly $13.5M to be covered by the Spurs, or by Luis over the course of what would be an inflated value, 3-year contract. If Luis needed to make at least Oberto/Nocioni money...let's say $8M over 3-years, that would mean Luis would have to receive a 3-year deal at $21.5M, provided the Spurs had exceptions to cover that.

So to re-ask Kori's question, why would Luis be upset with the Spurs? Why not with Tau?

[ChumpDumper]

The only way Scola should be upset with the Spurs is if a $3 million buyout is on the table ready to go right now.

[Mavs<Spurs]

Thanks for posting this info. It explains why most places always had a $2-4M buyout figure. It just didn't get lowered - no one is at fault. But I don't understand why Scola would be upset with the Spurs - he should be equally, if not more, upset with Tau.


Exactly, Kori.

I understand why Scola upset, but I think his anger is misdirected. The Spurs did not have a choice. They could not risk getting nobody at all. They very easily could lose the case. So, they had to take Oberto. Scola should be mad at Tau.
:fro

[tempest186]

TIMVP, where did you see that Scola's camp claims they never got an offer from the Spurs?

[Mavs<Spurs]

It's not the first time Tau has had problems with a player or a contract. So far they've won the cases taken to a third partie.
But from a bussiness point of view in this particular case (considering Scola is one of the most respected, famous and important players in Europe) it could damage Tau's reputation. If I were a player I would go: "If they can hurt Scola's career, what could they do to mine?".


Athenea, don't you think that the people at Tau are the real jerks in all this. From what we've read, the $14.5 mill figure is the one Tau is standing by, R. C. offered (in Ludden's presence apparently-meaning you attacked him perhaps unfairly? about his article) to buy out the contract if Scola could get it down to $3 mill, and make an offer, but it looks like Scola was never able to get that done. Now, you've told us that Tau wins these types of cases. So, it sure looks like there is the Spurs might have to pay that $14.5 mill buyout to get Scola. You must know that nobody would do that and you can't blame the Spurs for that. So, the Spurs had to choose Oberto since it looks like Scola was impossible either because of time (to win an arbitration case even if they would win which does not seem likely ) or money ($14.5 mill buy out is just not realistic ). In my opinion, some people may have possibly jumped the gun a little and attacked the Spurs (and maybe Ludden's credibility- which is pretty good) without a fair hearing. Can you agree with that? As Spurs fans, I think we would be better off to give our team the benefit of the doubt before we jump to any conclusions about what they are doing. I do really appreciate your posts, not least because as an Argentinian Spurs fan you add a lot of knowledge to our discussions. Thanks.
:fro

[smeagol]

Fuck Scola, I don't know too many people that wouldn't jump at the chance to play for the greatest coach in professional sports and on a team that features two of the top five players in the NBA.

Sit back, each more nachos and watch the Champs wallop ass in two double o six bitch!

Stop wasting CIA's time.
Man, what a lame ass shallow analysis you came up with. :blah

And what's up with the nachos bit?

Scola is not Mexican. Why would he eat more nachos?

Man you are ignorant!

[ChumpDumper]

Empanadas?

[smeagol]

Empanadas?
Now your talking, bro!

Empanadas Salteñas, from the northern part of Argentina, are the best.

[Athenea]

Athenea you've argued two different angles one where it was not unreasonable for an unknown Argentinian, in a land where Argentinians weren't NBA prospects, to sign a long term deal and the other where he was almost a sure bet first rounder.

It was a bad contract. A contract that leaves large unknowns is a bad contract. A good lawyer doesn't make those mistakes. Unlikely that that mistake will be made again. I don't fault Scola, he was a 17 year old kid. His agent sucked though.
Again...by the time Scola signed his contract the only plausible bball leagues were in Europe.Some great players like Oberto, Campana, Montenegro were having a hard time to find a comfort zone in the NBA (as u can see in Oberto's case). The jump to the NBA was almost a dream.
Before the 2002 draft both Scola and Nocioni (5 years after the contract) had to modify their initial contracts.
If u read the Spanish press before/during the 2002 draft, Scola was considered almost a lock for 1st round. Suns were interested in him and some other teams (Spurs inlcuded).
I don't see any contradiction whatsoever in my statements.

And themanurules, somehow I think both teams r prioritizing their own interests over Scola's. As some ppl say it's only biz...but it could backfire for all 3 parties involved. They r dealing w/ppl here, not an inanimate commodity.
For instance while lurking Spanish forums the regular fans r realizing that Querejeta (Tau's president) is going over the board defending his team best interests. It's not like Scola is a john doe...
In the other hand this season was rough for Scola. He is in need of a harder competition and this delay might not translate into improvement.
In the end we won't see the consequences till next year if Scola doesn't join the Spurs this season.