Spurs interested in Thomas Robinson

[Michael Jordan.]

The Rockets are in advanced talks on a cap-clearing trade of forward Thomas Robinson, with a deal potentially “imminent,” a person with knowledge of their plans said on Tuesday.

The Cleveland Cavaliers and San Antonio Spurs have shown interest in Robinson, according to another individual with knowledge of the Rockets efforts to move Robinson’s $3.5 million salary next season. Though it would be difficult for the Spurs to make any sort of deal for Robinson directly with the Rockets and would likely have to add a third team in a larger deal.

The Rockets have also had talks with the Chicago Bulls, according to the person familiar with negotiations so far, but he said that unlike with the Spurs and Cavaliers, he did not know if the Bulls were interested in Robinson or could be part of a larger deal.

The Rockets would want to move Robinson without bringing back corresponding salary to clear enough cap room to offer a max contract in free agency next month. They would have to clear roughly the equivalent of Robinson’s contract next season to have enough cap room to offer Dwight Howard his maximum salary.

There are 16 teams with the cap room, trade exceptions or non-guaranteed contracts needed to make such a deal without sending the Rockets corresponding salaries.

The Cavaliers can make that kind of deal with some of their available cap room. In addition to their own pick, the Cavaliers have the 19th pick and two second-round picks before the Rockets’ selection with the 34th pick.

The Bulls are over the cap, but have a trade exception that is large enough to make a deal that will expire next month. The Bulls have the 20th pick in the draft.

The Spurs have only their own pick, the 28th pick overall, in Thursday’s first round and would not seem to have a way to make such a trade possible directly with the Rockets.

If the Rockets move into the first round in Thursday’s draft, they could select an international prospect that would assure that he would stay overseas next season, allowing them to not use cap space with the pick. They could seek a future pick with the 2014 draft class expected to be unusually strong.

The Rockets could move two of their three rookies last season that were drafted in the first round to clear the cap room necessary, but would rather have to trade one of their prospects than two. The deal to acquire Robinson was made in part because of a belief that he would be easier to deal than Patrick Patterson or a combination of last season’s rookies.

The Rockets also could opt to make a cap-clearing deal next month if it becomes necessary and according to a person familiar with their thinking, would prefer to keep Robinson until the cap room is necessary to sign Howard. There have been indications, however, that teams have been more receptive to deals before the draft in order to be able to consider the acquisition when making their draft choices.

[SenorSpur]

Good. They should be.

[Jordanobili2320]

I think he could be a great short term and long term player. He has a great motor and would fit well under Pop. I would absolutely love it. He's young, talented and not a giant pussy. Which is always a plus.

[Ditty]

If the Spurs do a three way trade and end up giving up Bonner/ De Colo and keep their pick with getting Robinson, wow...

[T Park]

Third team in two years....

[Juggity]

Would be a solid pickup for the right price

[stephen jackson]

great. i like him. just needs some stability and leadership to point him in the right way

[cjw]

Third team in two years....

So was Chauncey Billups early in his career.

[tmtcsc]

What's the story with this guy? He was the 5th pick in the draft and Sac and Hou don't want him. Smells like trouble.

[dylankerouac]

What's the story with this guy? He was the 5th pick in the draft and Sac and Hou don't want him. Smells like trouble.

I'm interested in this too.

[coachmac87]

Houston had their eyes on the big prize!! And Sacramento is well Sacramento. It all depends on what Spurs have to give up..if he doesn't work out in SA he more than likely wont work out in the NBA. Low risk/High reward IMO

[yavozerb]

The Rockets are in advanced talks on a cap-clearing trade of forward Thomas Robinson, with a deal potentially “imminent,” a person with knowledge of their plans said on Tuesday.

The Cleveland Cavaliers and San Antonio Spurs have shown interest in Robinson, according to another individual with knowledge of the Rockets efforts to move Robinson’s $3.5 million salary next season. Though it would be difficult for the Spurs to make any sort of deal for Robinson directly with the Rockets and would likely have to add a third team in a larger deal.

The Rockets have also had talks with the Chicago Bulls, according to the person familiar with negotiations so far, but he said that unlike with the Spurs and Cavaliers, he did not know if the Bulls were interested in Robinson or could be part of a larger deal.

The Rockets would want to move Robinson without bringing back corresponding salary to clear enough cap room to offer a max contract in free agency next month. They would have to clear roughly the equivalent of Robinson’s contract next season to have enough cap room to offer Dwight Howard his maximum salary.

There are 16 teams with the cap room, trade exceptions or non-guaranteed contracts needed to make such a deal without sending the Rockets corresponding salaries.

The Cavaliers can make that kind of deal with some of their available cap room. In addition to their own pick, the Cavaliers have the 19th pick and two second-round picks before the Rockets’ selection with the 34th pick.

The Bulls are over the cap, but have a trade exception that is large enough to make a deal that will expire next month. The Bulls have the 20th pick in the draft.

The Spurs have only their own pick, the 28th pick overall, in Thursday’s first round and would not seem to have a way to make such a trade possible directly with the Rockets.

If the Rockets move into the first round in Thursday’s draft, they could select an international prospect that would assure that he would stay overseas next season, allowing them to not use cap space with the pick. They could seek a future pick with the 2014 draft class expected to be unusually strong.

The Rockets could move two of their three rookies last season that were drafted in the first round to clear the cap room necessary, but would rather have to trade one of their prospects than two. The deal to acquire Robinson was made in part because of a belief that he would be easier to deal than Patrick Patterson or a combination of last season’s rookies.

The Rockets also could opt to make a cap-clearing deal next month if it becomes necessary and according to a person familiar with their thinking, would prefer to keep Robinson until the cap room is necessary to sign Howard. There have been indications, however, that teams have been more receptive to deals before the draft in order to be able to consider the acquisition when making their draft choices.

source? link?

[Steve-O-Matic]

Houston isn't trying to deal Robinson because they don't think he has talent or a future, or because he's a bad apple. They're doing it because his salary is right at the amount that they need to clear out so that they'll be far enough under the cap to offer the maximum contract that they can offer to Dwight Howard. Additionally the Rockets basically have five PF's on their roster, so they're dealing from a position of strength (or at least quantity). Some team is going to steal him.

[Chinook]

The Spurs have only their own pick, the 28th pick overall, in Thursday’s first round and would not seem to have a way to make such a trade possible directly with the Rockets.

I guess the media feels that Pop would never trade Bonner.

[tmtcsc]

It seems like Robinson would be a bargain and cost less than moving one of the other PF's on the roster. Why him?

[dallasmaverickslose]

Would love to have him. Combine him wih Baynes for the 2nd unit... :)

[SpursDynasty21]

Is Robinson expected to be traded before the draft? I wouldn't want to give up the Spurs first round pick for him.

[yavozerb]

Houston isn't trying to deal Robinson because they don't think he has talent or a future, or because he's a bad apple. They're doing it because his salary is right at the amount that they need to clear out so that they'll be far enough under the cap to offer the maximum contract that they can offer to Dwight Howard. Additionally the Rockets basically have five PF's on their roster, so they're dealing from a position of strength (or at least quantity). Some team is going to steal him.

All I know is 2 teams in 2 seasons and now possibly a 3rd in 3. I know there are some dumb gm's but I would bet on bust on a player who is getting hot potatoed around the league, esp. a top 5 pick.

[024]

He's just another 6'7 - 6'8 PF with a long wingspan. His game has barely developed since entering the league. I'm always wary about the smaller PFs that looked good in college but suck in the NBA. They looked effective in college because the players were smaller but when they meet the larger bigs in the NBA, they can't compensate. When you are undersized at the PF/C position, you have to work your ass off and prove yourself first. Not that it's impossible, Millsap proved he can play big but I'm not sure about Robinson. And it's always bad news when a team like the Kings trade you after the first year.

[dallasmaverickslose]

He's just another 6'7 - 6'8 PF with a long wingspan. His game has barely developed since entering the league. I'm always wary about the smaller PFs that looked good in college but suck in the NBA. They looked effective in college because the players were smaller but when they meet the larger bigs in the NBA, they can't compensate. When you are undersized at the PF/C position, you have to work your ass off and prove yourself first. Millsap proved he can play big, not sure about Robinson. And it's always bad news when a team like the Kings trade you after the first year.
He's actually 6'9" - 6'10"

[024]

He's actually 6'9" - 6'10"
http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Thomas-Robinson-5496/

Measured at 6'7.75 during the draft. Unless he had a very late growth spurt, I doubt he's even close to 6'10. He my have grown half an inch to be a legit 6'8.

[Steve-O-Matic]

All I know is 2 teams in 2 seasons and now possibly a 3rd in 3. I know there are some dumb gm's but I would bet on bust on a player who is getting hot potatoed around the league, esp. a top 5 pick.

You're right, that's all you know. And if you knew a little more then you'd know that there's a lot more to this and that one season in the league (the majority of which was spent in a patently dysfunctional environment) has not suddenly eviscerated the long-term potential that made him a top 5 pick in the draft one year ago this week.

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

source? link?

http://blog.chron.com/ultimaterockets/2013/06/rockets-in-advanced-talks-on-trade-for-thomas-robinson/

[spurraider21]

The Spurs should have bigger and better plans than Thomas Robinson, unless they really like the kid, but I'm not sure how much his NBA tape warrants that. He's a good athlete, though. Very mobile, good leaper, etc.

[dallasmaverickslose]

If we can get him without giving up a draft pick we should dive on this.

[CGD]

If Spurs get rid of Manu's cap hold quickly by resigning him at a lesser deal, Spurs should be able to get this done by trading Bonner. Would save the Rockets about 3M when they Waive Bonner. This seems like a very Spurs move tbh.

[Chinook]

If Spurs get rid of Manu's cap hold quickly by resigning him at a lesser deal, Spurs should be able to get this done by trading Bonner. Would save the Rockets about 3M when they Waive Bonner. This seems like a very Spurs move tbh.

The Spurs don't need to mess with Ginobili's hold at all to make a Bonner for Robinson deal. They can (and pretty much have to) do it between now and draft night, not in July when all that cap business comes into effect.

[smaka]

Bonner for Robinson. :hat

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=p5cocd5

[Chinook]

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Thomas-Robinson-5496/

Measured at 6'7.75 during the draft. Unless he had a very late growth spurt, I doubt he's even close to 6'10. He my have grown half an inch to be a legit 6'8.

You'd be surprised how many power-forwards are that height. Robinson isn't undersized for a four; he just doesn't have the game of one.

[loveforthegame]

Living near Sacramento, I follow the Kings pretty closely. It's brutal what the franchise has gone through the last few years. I'm really hoping the new ownership can turn it around.

There haven't been any rumblings about Robinson being a bad buy, lacking work ethic, problem child off the court, whatever. As far as I can tell, he's fallen victim to lack of leadership, no direction, and players dictating stuff. The same thing happened to Donte Greene, Omri Casspi, JJ Hickson, and a few other guys. They'd be playing and producing, you could see the potential, and then they wouldn't play for 3-5 games.

I really like what I see from Robinson and assuming the Spurs don't have to give up a lot, I think he'd be worth the gamble. I think he'd flourish with the Spurs system and leadership.

[Steve-O-Matic]

Bonner for Robinson. :hat

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=p5cocd5

Won't happen. The Rockets need to clear the full amount of Robinson's contract, not all but $1M of it (the guaranteed portion of Bonner's final year).

[Chinook]

We're talking about essentially swapping him for Bonner here. Worst comes to worst, he sits on the bench all year or gets traded as an expiring at the deadline. Best case? Productive big to put next to Duncan and Splitter for the next few years. Could easily be a Hickson-type of player.

[SpursDynasty21]

I doubt Robinson would be the Spurs biggest offseason move. He'd be a nice player to add but I think that the Spurs will look to make some other nice moves, as well.

[Mal]

How Spurs couldnt eat his salary with projected 20mln cap space ? Anybody care to explain ?

[dallasmaverickslose]

If Robinson pans out he would be a steal.

[lurker23]

By my quick calculations, the Spurs could theoretically take Robinson's contract using cap space if they take care of Manu on Day 1, signing him to a smaller deal and thus eliminating his cap hold. It would be close, however. The number I'm getting for the Spurs is $56.17 million*. If the cap came in at $60 million, this would barely give the Spurs enough cap space to absorb Robinson's $3.53 million contract for next year.

*Assumptions I used:
**Everyone picks up their player options
**Spurs keep everyone who has non-guaranteed contracts
**They sign Manu to a deal worth $5mil in year one
**They offer Gary his QO but denounce the rights to Blair, McGrady, and everyone else
**The number also includes a cap hold of $7,493,600 for Splitter and $893,500 for the #28 pick
**As always, all numbers from ShamSports: http://data.shamsports.com/content/pages/data/salaries/spurs.jsp

(Of course, please correct my numbers if there's something I'm missing.)

[Ibleedslvrnblk]

If Robinson pans out he would be a steal.

IF is the question. I want to know what he is supposed to bring this team? I know nothing about him except his crap stats on crap teams. Don`t we have guys who can already do better than that? I find it hard to believe this is the answer to winning a title. There are better players out there...

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

How Spurs couldnt eat his salary with projected 20mln cap space ? Anybody care to explain ?

Currently, I think it's just a matter of waiting until everyone's contracts are officially off the books, meaning the deal can be done but it'll have to wait until July 1st.

[SpursDynasty21]

By my quick calculations, the Spurs could theoretically take Robinson's contract using cap space if they take care of Manu on Day 1, signing him to a smaller deal and thus eliminating his cap hold. It would be close, however. The number I'm getting for the Spurs is $56.17 million*. If the cap came in at $60 million, this would barely give the Spurs enough cap space to absorb Robinson's $3.53 million contract for next year.

*Assumptions I used:
**Everyone picks up their player options
**Spurs keep everyone who has non-guaranteed contracts
**They sign Manu to a deal worth $5mil in year one
**They offer Gary his QO but denounce the rights to Blair, McGrady, and everyone else
**The number also includes a cap hold of $7,493,600 for Splitter and $893,500 for the #28 pick
**As always, all numbers from ShamSports: http://data.shamsports.com/content/pages/data/salaries/spurs.jsp

(Of course, please correct my numbers if there's something I'm missing.)

I thought the Spurs had much more cap space.

[Mal]

Currently, I think it's just a matter of waiting until everyone's contracts are officially off the books, meaning the deal can be done but it'll have to wait until July 1st.

And Rockets cant offer anything to Howard before that day. I still dont get how 3rd team must be involved.

[lurker23]

I thought the Spurs had much more cap space.

Unless the Spurs denounce their rights to Ginobili and Splitter (or either retires/signs with another team), then, in addition to the salaries already on the books, you have to include a "cap hold" for these players when calculating the Spurs space under the cap. Based on their current contracts and years in service, Ginobili's cap hold is $19,136,250, and Splitter's is $7,493,600. So, even though the Spurs only have $41,666,028 in contracts on the books, they have no cap space until at least Manu's situation is resolved.

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

And Rockets cant offer anything to Howard before that day. I still dont get how 3rd team must be involved.

I guess a third team must be involved if the Rockets want to go into July 1st ready to make Dwight an offer, rather than work out a deal first with the Spurs then make the offer.

[Steve-O-Matic]

The word is "renounce" not "denounce." There is a huge difference.

[RD2191]

This guy is garbage at the free throw line. Mini Dwight Howard.

[lurker23]

The word is "renounce" not "denounce." There is a huge difference.

LOL, you're right. My apologies.

Edit: That said, some Spurs fans are already denouncing Manu.

[Mal]

Unless the Spurs denounce their rights to Ginobili and Splitter (or either retires/signs with another team), then, in addition to the salaries already on the books, you have to include a "cap hold" for these players when calculating the Spurs space under the cap. Based on their current contracts and years in service, Ginobili's cap hold is $19,136,250, and Splitter's is $7,493,600. So, even though the Spurs only have $41,666,028 in contracts on the books, they have no cap space until at least Manu's situation is resolved.

Oh I see someone knows something more about it. Why Spurs need to keep Ginobili`s rights ? They wont go over the cap with his bird rights and he is UFA. Why keep him with 19mil cap hold ?

[Chinook]

By my quick calculations, the Spurs could theoretically take Robinson's contract using cap space if they take care of Manu on Day 1, signing him to a smaller deal and thus eliminating his cap hold. It would be close, however. The number I'm getting for the Spurs is $56.17 million*. If the cap came in at $60 million, this would barely give the Spurs enough cap space to absorb Robinson's $3.53 million contract for next year.

*Assumptions I used:
**Everyone picks up their player options
**Spurs keep everyone who has non-guaranteed contracts
**They sign Manu to a deal worth $5mil in year one
**They offer Gary his QO but denounce the rights to Blair, McGrady, and everyone else
**The number also includes a cap hold of $7,493,600 for Splitter and $893,500 for the #28 pick
**As always, all numbers from ShamSports: http://data.shamsports.com/content/pages/data/salaries/spurs.jsp

(Of course, please correct my numbers if there's something I'm missing.)

The cap IS going to be at $58.5 Million.

Also, without actually doing your calculations, I don't understand your conclusions:

The Spurs have $19.3 Million in space not counting Ginobili, Neal or Splitter. The Spurs don't have to agree with Ginobili right away; they can just renounce his rights (eliminating the hold) and sign him to whatever's left after all the moves are made.

Splitter takes $7.5 Million, so that leaves $12.3 Million (the team gets a $490k roster charge taken away).

Neal takes $1.1 Million so that leaves $11.7 Million

Robinson takes $3.4 Million, which drops the cap space to $8.8 Million.

Provided they keep their pick (unlikely if they're making this trade, but whatever), the final cap number is around $8.4 Million. So the team has a lot of room to sign Ginobili to a fair deal AND still bring in a player like Aminu or make a bid World Peace, AND sign a backup point-guard like CJ Watson.

[yavozerb]

You're right, that's all you know. And if you knew a little more then you'd know that there's a lot more to this and that one season in the league (the majority of which was spent in a patently dysfunctional environment) has not suddenly eviscerated the long-term potential that made him a top 5 pick in the draft one year ago this week.

:lol, so basically other than him being a top 5 pick you have no idea why him joining the spurs would be a good idea (a steal, in your words). Just thought you may know something we didnt about TR, you dont.

[Chinook]

Damn, I hate quoting myself accidentally. It's so conceited.

[Mal]

I guess a third team must be involved if the Rockets want to go into July 1st ready to make Dwight an offer, rather than work out a deal first with the Spurs then make the offer.

This doesnt make any sense and guy who wrote this article cant know this. It`s either bullshit with 3rd team or collective bargain says something else.

[ThaBigFundamental21]

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Thomas-Robinson-5496/

Measured at 6'7.75 during the draft. Unless he had a very late growth spurt, I doubt he's even close to 6'10. He my have grown half an inch to be a legit 6'8.

He is listed at 6'10 on ESPN. Someone is lying here. Either way, at his price tag, I am on board with adding talented youth. The Spurs would be a good spot for him. Pop can work with him. I will take the trade if we aren't giving up a ton.

[Steve-O-Matic]

:lol, so basically other than him being a top 5 pick you have no idea why him joining the spurs would be a good idea (a steal, in your words). Just thought you may know something we didnt about TR, you dont.

Umm, no, there are a plethora of reasons why Robinson joining the Spurs would be a good idea - all of which I'm fully aware of and have to do with things like his rebounding ability, athleticism, youth, motor, the position he plays, his inside/outside offensive potential and so on. I never said that Robinson simply being a top 5 pick last year makes him a good target on general principle. Those are your words, not mine. Nice try, though.

[ThaBigFundamental21]

The cap IS going to be at $58.5 Million.

Also, without actually doing your calculations, I don't understand your conclusions:

The Spurs have $19.3 Million in space not counting Ginobili, Neal or Splitter. The Spurs don't have to agree with Ginobili right away; they can just renounce his rights (eliminating the hold) and sign him to whatever's left after all the moves are made.

Splitter takes $7.5 Million, so that leaves $12.3 Million (the team gets a $490k roster charge taken away).

Neal takes $1.1 Million so that leaves $11.7 Million

Robinson takes $3.4 Million, which drops the cap space to $8.8 Million.

Provided they keep their pick (unlikely if they're making this trade, but whatever), the final cap number is around $8.4 Million. So the team has a lot of room to sign Ginobili to a fair deal AND still bring in a player like Aminu or make a bid World Peace, AND sign a backup point-guard like CJ Watson.

Or Splitter and Neal don't come back. We give Neal's minutes to Nando, who is bigger, and is a better playmaker. Splitter gets his broke ass out of town, and we sign a quality big man for 13-14 million a year.

[Mal]

The Spurs have $19.3 Million in space not counting Ginobili, Neal or Splitter. The Spurs don't have to agree with Ginobili right away; they can just renounce his rights (eliminating the hold) and sign him to whatever's left after all the moves are made.


What about Bonner ? how much extra space cutting him would make ? Half of his 3,4 mil ?

[lurker23]

Oh I see someone knows something more about it. Why Spurs need to keep Ginobili`s rights ? They wont go over the cap with his bird rights and he is UFA. Why keep him with 19mil cap hold ?

I guess there are several ways you can go about it. You're right that Spurs don't necessarily need to keep Manu's rights, but it all depends on how much money (or lack thereof) he's willing to take. Once you renounce his rights and start using that cap space, then your only methods for re-signing him are:
a.) cap space
b.) "the room exception," which is basically an MLE available to teams who were previously under the cap; I think that value is a max contract of 2 years, $5 million, but I don't know if that changes for this year, or
c.) he could sign for the minimum

So, if you assume that Ginobili wants more than 2 years/$5 million, then you either have to sign him using Bird rights, or make darn sure you have enough cap space to re-sign if you renounce those rights.

[Chinook]

I guess a third team must be involved if the Rockets want to go into July 1st ready to make Dwight an offer, rather than work out a deal first with the Spurs then make the offer.

Nah, there's still the moratorium to consider. The Rockets can use that week or so to agree to a deal with Howard (pretty simple seeing as he'll get the max) and work out a trade (which we're assuming they already did on draft night). Then, when the moratorium ends, they can fax in the trade to the league office, have Howard sign his contract and fax that into the league office -- in that order. All that happens on July 8th or 10th, or whenever free agency officially begins, and it should only take a few minutes total.

[TrainOfThought5]

Would be a solid pickup for the right price

if his first team was the Kings then it doesnt count.

[Mal]

I guess a third team must be involved if the Rockets want to go into July 1st ready to make Dwight an offer, rather than work out a deal first with the Spurs then make the offer.

Oh wait, I think I`ve got it. Probably Rockets want draft pick this draft, and stash him in Europe. That make sense and must involve 3rd team.

[yavozerb]

Umm, no, there are a plethora of reasons why Robinson joining the Spurs would be a good idea - all of which I'm fully aware of and have to do with things like his rebounding ability, athleticism, youth, motor, the position he plays, his inside/outside offensive potential and so on. I never said that Robinson simply being a top 5 pick last year makes him a good target on general principle. Those are your words, not mine. Nice try, though.

Other than his youth I have yet to see any of those other attributes you mentioned. Not saying he cannot do any of those things, but after 1 year his youth is main and only asset.

[Chinook]

What about Bonner ? how much extra space cutting him would make ? Half of his 3,4 mil ?

Well, either the Spurs can agree to extend his deadline so they can amnesty him, or they'll waive him and drop the initial cap number to $18.8 Million. It's also possible that they'll trade him to Houston on draft night and be done with it. A Spurs/Rockets deal might end up including players like Royce White and Nando De Colo. Or it might include a third team like Sacramento absorbing Bonner's deal in exchange for cash and a second. But either way, unless the Spurs keep Bonner on their roster next season, his contract won't make too big of a difference.

[Steve-O-Matic]

Other than his youth I have yet to see any of those other attributes you mentioned. Not saying he cannot do any of those things, but after 1 year his youth is main and only asset.

Then you obviously haven't been watching. You're done, yav.

[Chinook]

Oh wait, I think I`ve got it. Probably Rockets want draft pick this draft, and stash him in Europe. That make sense and must involve 3rd team.

It doesn't have to. Teams can agree to draft-night trades to only take effect after the moratorium. There's no need to involve a third team if the Spurs agree to pick a certain player Houston wants and then to trade that player for Robinson as soon as free agency starts.

[lurker23]

The cap IS going to be at $58.5 Million.

Also, without actually doing your calculations, I don't understand your conclusions:

The Spurs have $19.3 Million in space not counting Ginobili, Neal or Splitter. The Spurs don't have to agree with Ginobili right away; they can just renounce his rights (eliminating the hold) and sign him to whatever's left after all the moves are made.

Splitter takes $7.5 Million, so that leaves $12.3 Million (the team gets a $490k roster charge taken away).

Neal takes $1.1 Million so that leaves $11.7 Million

Robinson takes $3.4 Million, which drops the cap space to $8.8 Million.

Provided they keep their pick (unlikely if they're making this trade, but whatever), the final cap number is around $8.4 Million. So the team has a lot of room to sign Ginobili to a fair deal AND still bring in a player like Aminu or make a bid World Peace, AND sign a backup point-guard like CJ Watson.

I hadn't seen the report about the $58.5 million (which I just found, thanks for mentioning it). I still wouldn't bet against the cap ending up at $59 or $60 million, but $58.5 is as good a guess as we have now, so I'm fine using that.

For the contracts on the books, the total is $41.66, which would leave less than $17 million under the cap (ignore cap holds for the second). I'm guessing you're counting on the Spurs waiving Bonner? As much as Spurs fans speculate on that, I haven't seen any indications from Pop or anyone else that this is imminent. (For what it's worth, I think the more likely scenario is the Spurs package him on draft night to a team looking to shed some salary.)

[Chinook]

Or Splitter and Neal don't come back. We give Neal's minutes to Nando, who is bigger, and is a better playmaker. Splitter gets his broke ass out of town, and we sign a quality big man for 13-14 million a year.

I guess. But I was explaining how much cap room would be left if that scenario.

[Captivus]

We're talking about essentially swapping him for Bonner here. Worst comes to worst, he sits on the bench all year or gets traded as an expiring at the deadline. Best case? Productive big to put next to Duncan and Splitter for the next few years. Could easily be a Hickson-type of player.

THIS and THIS.

[Seventyniner]

Damn, I hate quoting myself accidentally. It's so conceited.

I'm not too fond of GreatYacht either.

[yavozerb]

Then you obviously haven't been watching. You're done, yav.

4 ppg and 4 reb a game while averaging 15 min. There you go, now im done..

[Chinook]

I hadn't seen the report about the $58.5 million (which I just found, thanks for mentioning it). I still wouldn't bet against the cap ending up at $59 or $60 million, but $58.5 is as good a guess as we have now, so I'm fine using that.

For the contracts on the books, the total is $41.66, which would leave less than $17 million under the cap (ignore cap holds for the second). I'm guessing you're counting on the Spurs waiving Bonner? As much as Spurs fans speculate on that, I haven't seen any indications from Pop or anyone else that this is imminent. (For what it's worth, I think the more likely scenario is the Spurs package him on draft night to a team looking to shed some salary.)

The Spurs tend not to keep partially guaranteed deals on the books outside of the ones they give to rookies. So I'd say it's very possible the Spurs waive/amnesty-waive Bonner. Getting Robinson would only increase the likelihood of that happening, as that would give the Spurs six bigs, and one of Bonner or Robinson would be at best fifth big. That's too much money to pay for an end-of-bench player. Whether it's literal or figurative, I think we'll see a Bonner-for-Robinson swap if the Spurs acquire Thomas at all.

[Texas_Ranger]

4 ppg and 4 reb a game while averaging 15 min. There you go, now im done..

still better than Tiago in the finals....

[Chinook]

4 ppg and 4 reb a game while averaging 15 min. There you go, now im done..

Pretty much a double-double per 36. That's not bad, actually.

[SenorSpur]

Living near Sacramento, I follow the Kings pretty closely. It's brutal what the franchise has gone through the last few years. I'm really hoping the new ownership can turn it around.

There haven't been any rumblings about Robinson being a bad buy, lacking work ethic, problem child off the court, whatever. As far as I can tell, he's fallen victim to lack of leadership, no direction, and players dictating stuff. The same thing happened to Donte Greene, Omri Casspi, JJ Hickson, and a few other guys. They'd be playing and producing, you could see the potential, and then they wouldn't play for 3-5 games.

I really like what I see from Robinson and assuming the Spurs don't have to give up a lot, I think he'd be worth the gamble. I think he'd flourish with the Spurs system and leadership.

From a distance, that pretty much what I had surmised about Robinson. There was no chance in hell for him to develop in Sacramento, what with him firmly entrenched behind Jason Thompson, the lack of leadership and that "me-first" culture that permeated the entire team. Houston never had any plans for him. They're simply clearing space to try and acquire Dwight Howard. I believe this kid may very well be salvageable. A high motor and good rebounding skills usually translates well to the next level. I'd really like to see what he could do as a Spurs - assuming they could pull it off. It would be a low-risk move and would provide some measure of youth and athleticism to their frontcourt.

[lurker23]

Chinook and others, thanks for helping me see that renouncing Ginobili's rights is actually a viable option. Personally, I think Manu will get something like 2 years, $10 million, and Splitter will get something relatively close to his cap hold (say 3 years, $27 million); if that comes to pass, the Spurs don't really have a ton of room to maneuver under the cap, but something like this Thomas Robinson deal is certainly a possibility.

[BatManu20]

Bonner for Robinson. :hat

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=p5cocd5

They're trying to get rid of him to clear cap space.. Unless I'm missing something, they won't trade him for another player, esp not an overpaid one like Bonner, even is his contract is expiring.

[SenorSpur]

Robinson would be a low-cost, low-risk move and just the type of under-the-rader signing the Spurs have been known to make.

[Steve-O-Matic]

4 ppg and 4 reb a game while averaging 15 min. There you go, now im done..

Again, nice try, but cherry-picking out rookie year stats on the internet from a limited sample size is hardly a player assessment, never mind a contextual predictor of his future potential or suitability to be a Spur. You've already declared you know absolutely nothing about Thomas Robinson other than the fact that he played for 2 teams this past season, so it'd be best if you just quit while you're behind because neither the facts nor the masses are on your side.

[Chinook]

Chinook and others, thanks for helping me see that renouncing Ginobili's rights is actually a viable option. Personally, I think Manu will get something like 2 years, $10 million, and Splitter will get something relatively close to his cap hold (say 3 years, $27 million); if that comes to pass, the Spurs don't really have a ton of room to maneuver under the cap, but something like this Thomas Robinson deal is certainly a possibility.

They could also stay over the cap and still have the MLE at then end of it all.

[spurraider21]

The cap IS going to be at $58.5 Million.

there is no way you could make that claim before the moratorium

[spurraider21]

They're trying to get rid of him to clear cap space.. Unless I'm missing something, they won't trade him for another player, esp not an overpaid one like Bonner, even is his contract is expiring.

Bonner would provide some cap relief since his contract his mostly non guaranteed

[Chinook]

there is no way you could make that claim before the moratorium

You can get pretty close. It would be pretty apparent if it were going to be significantly higher. It's based off values that are already known; the league just hasn't officially done the calculation yet.

[spurraider21]

You can get pretty close. It would be pretty apparent if it were going to be significantly higher. It's based off values that are already known; the league just hasn't officially done the calculation yet.

didn't they announce that league revenue went up quite a bit this season?

[look_at_g_shred]

"....The Rockets are in advanced talks on a cap-clearing trade of forward Thomas Robinson, with a deal potentially “imminent,” a person with knowledge of their plans said on Tuesday." http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/06/25/report-rockets-near-deal-to-trade-thomas-robinson-but-to-whom/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

[BatManu20]

Bonner would provide some cap relief since his contract his mostly non guaranteed

I see. Well he'd be a great pick up imo if were traded for Bonner but surely the Rockets can get a better deal than that. Sounds like Cleveland is the heavy favorite to land his services right now.

[024]

He is listed at 6'10 on ESPN. Someone is lying here. Either way, at his price tag, I am on board with adding talented youth. The Spurs would be a good spot for him. Pop can work with him. I will take the trade if we aren't giving up a ton.
He was actually measured before the draft so that is concrete evidence at his height. Never trust the "listed" height, it's usually just the players or agent wanting to make him seem taller than he really is so teams will give him a second look. A prime example is Blair, who is probably 6'5-6'6, used to be listed at a generous 6'8.

As for Thomas Robinson for Bonner trade, I think the Spurs have to scrutinize every deal if they want to remain under the cap. If they didn't have cap space, then this deal is a no brainer. But every million counts when the Spurs are under the cap. His $4 million salary could be the difference between a $7 million free agent or a $3 million free agent. That's the difference between Mike Dunleavy and re-signing Gary Neal. That is very significant so the Spurs should mull their options carefully.

[tesseractive]

Umm, no, there are a plethora of reasons why Robinson joining the Spurs would be a good idea - all of which I'm fully aware of and have to do with things like his rebounding ability, athleticism, youth, motor, the position he plays, his inside/outside offensive potential and so on. I never said that Robinson simply being a top 5 pick last year makes him a good target on general principle. Those are your words, not mine. Nice try, though.
If I have this right, the basic line on his offensive game coming out of school was that he was fairly effective on the block (but in need of refinement), and that he had a jumper that he could take as far out as the elbow, but it wasn't reliable and his form needed work. Is that about right?

And defensively, the basic book is that he's fairly strong, mobile enough to defend just about any 4, and reasonably tough, right?

As long as he's coachable and the part about him having a great motor is correct, he sounds like a guy who could be truly amazing if he develops like a good Spurs player -- figure Chip helps him get his jumper worked out, he learns how to tighten up his post game from Tim, and he figures out the scheme, and he's a guy who can have a real impact on both ends of the court.

If all of that is right and the front office has confidence in this kid, Houston could be holding out for a package of this year's #1, a future #1, and Bonner and it could still be worth it.

[spurraider21]

I see. Well he'd be a great pick up imo if here traded for Bonner but surely the Rockets can get a better deal than that. Sounds like Cleveland is the heavy favorite to land his services right now.
not sure why they want him. Tristan Thompson is better than Robinson. are the rebuilding cavs really looking to deal a first to get a backup 4?

[yavozerb]

Again, nice try, but cherry-picking out rookie year stats on the internet from a limited sample size is hardly a player assessment, never mind a contextual predictor of his future potential or suitability to be a Spur. You've already declared you know absolutely nothing about Thomas Robinson other than the fact that he played for 2 teams this past season, so it'd be best if you just quit while you're behind because neither the facts nor the masses are on your side.

Well I guess you must watch every single minute of Rocket and Kings games cause you couldnt even blink or you would miss the TR show. I dont dislke the kid, I just dont thiink you or 99% of everyone here knows much about him either. I can also read off his strengths and weaknesses from draft sites like you did if you want.

[Steve-O-Matic]

Well I guess you must watch every single minute of Rocket and Kings games cause you couldnt even blink or you would miss the TR show. I dont dislke the kid, I just dont thiink you or 99% of everyone here knows much about him either. I can also read off his strengths and weaknesses from draft sites like you did if you want.
Well you might not think it, but you're wrong, because I do have a great deal of knowledge about TR and have seen quite an extensive amount of his games, dating back to his early college days at KU. I can't speak for the other 99% here that you referenced. That being said, the perception of how much Spurs fans know about Thomas Robinson is not a supporting argument for personal dismissal of him as a viable potential asset for the Spurs to acquire, particularly when you declared that you personally know absolutely nothing about him.

[yavozerb]

Well you might not think it, but you're wrong, because I do have a great deal of knowledge about TR and have seen quite an extensive amount of his games, dating back to his early college days at KU. I can't speak for the other 99% here that you referenced. That being said, the perception of how much Spurs fans know about Thomas Robinson is not a supporting argument for personal dismissal of him as a viable potential asset for the Spurs to acquire, particularly when you declared that you personally know absolutely nothing about him.

So you are going off his strengths in college then? So let me get this straight, you have knowledge of his game from college but have not watched him at the NBA level? I do not think I have ever said I had a vast knowledge of skills and have not listed his skill sets like you have. I am concerned that 2 teams seem to see nothing in this kid and to take a loss on both trades (if rockets do trade him).

[Steve-O-Matic]

So you are going off his strengths in college then? So let me get this straight, you have knowledge of his game from college but have not watched him at the NBA level? I do not think I have ever said I had a vast knowledge of skills and have not listed his skill sets like you have. I am concerned that 2 teams seem to see nothing in this kid and to take a loss on both trades (if rockets do trade him).

Nope, I said my knowledge of TR "dates back" to his college days, not that it is limited to his college days. I've seen him as both a collegian and a pro, extensively. You've seen him in on a stats chart. And the Rockets' motivation to trade him is based on a desire to create the necessary space to make their max offer to Dwight Howard, not because they "see nothing in (the) kid."

[BOHOLANO#21]

Agree. TR is the only one the Rockets can easily trade to clear cap space for Howard. What team do you think want Patterson over TR? The Rockets have to sacrifice TR in order to get Howard. My two cents!

[Baam]

Yes yes yes.

Tbh right now he's not very good but if he was we wouldn't have a shot at getting him. But he can realize his potential here and it's not a big risk for a relatively high reward.

Tiago Splitter had one somewhat good PO series in 3 years, he wasn't cutting it, we did most of the last two runs with Boris at the second big, fact.

[BatManu20]

I don't think any trades wil be made until draft day. But, if we could somehow get rid of Bonner AND pick up T-Rob, that would be a Godsend tbh.

While he'll never be a star obviously, I think Robinson can be a really solid role player in this league in the right situation, and there's no better situation for him than the Spurs. His game is really similar to Paul Millsap and would provide a much cheaper option with more upside, albeit with less production, at least at first.


-NrgVOjiNUA

[Bruno]

I really don't see Rockets getting an offer as good as #19+TE for Robinson. His trade value is significantly lower after his bad season even more that Houston will be in a weakness position with their need to create some capspace.

IMO, Bonner + Mills for Robinson + Royce White would be the best offer they would receive.

[Mr Bones]

It's interesting how similar Robinson is to Al Farouq Aminu. Robinson is a quarter inch taller, both have 7'3" wingspans (like Leonard), and both are very good rebounders. Robinson is 20 pounds heavier. Aminu has better FG% and FT%. Robinson would be better at guarding PFs and Aminu would be better suited guarding SFs. Both are about 40% away from the rim from jumpshot range. Aminu has better +/- numbers.

[Baam]

I really don't see Rockets getting an offer as good as #19+TE for Robinson. His trade value is significantly lower after his bad season even more that Houston will be in a weakness position with their need to create some capspace.

IMO, Bonner + Mills for Robinson + Royce White would be the best offer they would receive.

Without our first round pick?

[playbonner15]

:lol thinking Pop would trade Bonner. Keep wishing Spurstalk :toast

[Baam]

:lol thinking Pop would trade Bonner. Keep wishing Spurstalk :toast

Pop was willing to trade his favorite player so there's hope but would he trade his soulmate??

[Bruno]

Without our first round pick?

Yeah and I'm not even sure Spurs would add the Mills/White swap. Their best offer might just be Bonner for Robinson.

The issue with Robinson is that he is an expensive project. His 2013-2014 salary is $3.5M and the option for his $3.7M 2014-2015 salary must be picked at the end of next season training camp. Spurs would have to invest $7.2M in him before he even played a regular season game for them. That a lot of money for a player who has had a so-so rookie season.

[palangi]

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Thomas-Robinson-5496/

Measured at 6'7.75 during the draft. Unless he had a very late growth spurt, I doubt he's even close to 6'10. He my have grown half an inch to be a legit 6'8.
NBA measurements are actually based off how tall they are in shoes. and they usually add 1 1/4" with shoes. so he is a 6'9" PF. with a 7'3" wingspan. is very athletic and strong.

so compare dejuan blair was 6'5 1/4" with out shoes and 6'6 1/2" with shoes. and a 7'2" wingspan. so robinson is 3" taller and has a longer wingspan as well.

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/DeJuan-Blair-5049/

[bthewigwam]

I live in Mizzou/Kansas territory and I despise KU but this is the only player in the history of the Jayhawks I'd root for. Character and work ethic would NOT be an issue with him. He was never worthy of a top 5 pick but he's absolutely a strong NBA contributor, guarantee he's just been placed in bad NBA situations. If you don't know his story, give it a read, I'd venture to guess it's much worse than what happened to Kawhi. Bill Self builds team players and I'd be thrilled if he landed with our Spurs.

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/7207167/ncb-kansas-jayhawks-center-thomas-robinson-used-basketball-help-tragedy-espn-magazine

[bthewigwam]

I wouldn't be surprised to see R.C. go after him, if financially possible. He's close with Bill Self iirc.

[Baam]

Yeah and I'm not even sure Spurs would add the Mills/White swap. Their best offer might just be Bonner for Robinson.

The issue with Robinson is that he is an expensive project. His 2013-2014 salary is $3.5M and the option for his $3.7M 2014-2015 salary must be picked at the end of next season training camp. Spurs would have to invest $7.2M in him before he even played a regular season game for them. That a lot of money for a player who has had a so-so rookie season.

Yeah but still in the grand scheme of things I think it's a reasonable gamble.

More reasonable than making Tyreke Evans the second highest paid player on the team...

Besides they have Green at a ridiculously low salary the next two years, they can draft a SG instead of paying Neal (Rice Jr or whoever), Manu will sign for less... We won't spend that much on guards, it's feel like it's the right time to try something like that.

[bthewigwam]

Shoot, I hadn't read this story for awhile, I just read it again. Read the story I posted a couple posts up, seriously. If you didn't want T-Rob on the team before his story, I bet you'll change your mind after and have more of a belief that he was just in horrible situations to develop.

[look_at_g_shred]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-NrgVOjiNUA damn forgot the code to embed video

[Baam]

Trying not to get my hopes up, another case of blue balls in the making.

[KL2]

I think I remember there were rumors of SA moving up to draft him. Anyways I'd love to have him, I can't remember the last time SA had a strong athletic PF like him. He could be a steal coming to a real franchise, being put in the proper position to make plays and defend. He doesn't look like a guy that'd back down either, anyone remember that vicious elbow he threw at Jerebeko's face? He could bring some toughness this team desparetely needs.

[ace3g]

UPDATE: Feigan now saying (http://blog.chron.com/ultimaterockets/2013/06/rockets-in-advanced-talks-on-trade-for-thomas-robinson/) Spurs had interest but no deal will be struck between Spurs and Rockets.
San Antonio had been interested in Robinson but the teams are not in talks about a deal. It would be difficult for the Spurs to make any sort of deal for Robinson directly with the Rockets and would likely have to add a third team in a larger deal.
The Spurs have only their own pick, the 28th pick overall, in Thursday’s first round and would not seem to have a way to make such a trade possible directly with the Rockets.

http://blog.chron.com/ultimaterockets/2013/06/rockets-in-advanced-talks-on-trade-for-thomas-robinson/

[Baam]

He's wrong since Bonner ungaranteed contract does allow us to trade directly with them.

Still hoping against hope.

[Steve-O-Matic]

He's wrong since Bonner ungaranteed contract does allow us to trade directly with them.

Still hoping against hope.

He's not wrong. Bonner's contract has $1M guaranteed. The Rockets need to clear the entire amount of TR's contract, not all but $1M of it, to get to where they need to be in order to be able to offer Dwight Howard the max that they can offer.

[TheGreatYacht]

Or Splitter and Neal don't come back. We give Neal's minutes to Nando, who is bigger, and is a better playmaker. Splitter gets his broke ass out of town, and we sign a quality big man for 13-14 million a year.So DeColo is our savior as TP's backup or ball handler off the bench? Definitely not Manu.

[tesseractive]

He's not wrong. Bonner's contract has $1M guaranteed. The Rockets need to clear the entire amount of TR's contract, not all but $1M of it, to get to where they need to be in order to be able to offer Dwight Howard the max that they can offer.
:pctoss

[TheGreatYacht]

I guess there are several ways you can go about it. You're right that Spurs don't necessarily need to keep Manu's rights, but it all depends on how much money (or lack thereof) he's willing to take. Once you renounce his rights and start using that cap space, then your only methods for re-signing him are:
a.) cap space
b.) "the room exception," which is basically an MLE available to teams who were previously under the cap; I think that value is a max contract of 2 years, $5 million, but I don't know if that changes for this year, or
c.) he could sign for the minimum

So, if you assume that Ginobili wants more than 2 years/$5 million, then you either have to sign him using Bird rights, or make darn sure you have enough cap space to re-sign if you renounce those rights.Just renounce his rights. He won't go to another team cause he know he would be a failure. Let him take whatever money is left or the veteran's minimum.

[ThaBigFundamental21]

So DeColo is our savior as TP's backup or ball handler off the bench? Definitely not Manu.

No one is going that far. But I don't see why he and CoJo can't eat Neal's minutes. There is no sense in having 30 guards on the roster if we don't know what any of them can do, none of them get playing time, then going and overpaying a mediocre PG. (Neal) The point is we may have a solution on our team already. We got through the season with no true backup PG. Manu can still do fine in the regular season, we saw how the playoffs went. If Nando and CoJo don't work out, the Spurs can try and add a veteran for the playoffs. Nando has real playmaking abilities, I love his passing. I will probably get killed for this, but he reminds me a LOT of a young Manu in terms of playing style. Nando has to get way better on D and refine his Offensive game.

[TheGreatYacht]

No one is going that far. But I don't see why he and CoJo can't eat Neal's minutes. There is no sense in having 30 guards on the roster if we don't know what any of them can do, none of them get playing time, then going and overpaying a mediocre PG. (Neal) The point is we may have a solution on our team already. We got through the season with no true backup PG. Manu can still do fine in the regular season, we saw how the playoffs went. If Nando and CoJo don't work out, the Spurs can try and add a veteran for the playoffs. Nando has real playmaking abilities, I love his passing. I will probably get killed for this, but he reminds me a LOT of a young Manu in terms of playing style. Nando has to get way better on D and refine his Offensive game.I don't think that Nando has the same athletic abilities and quickness on defense that Manu had in his prime. I like Corey Joseph's defense but he's just such a liability on offense. The kid is scared to get his own shot. We need a threat off the bench to relieve some pressure off Parker and Manu.

[cd021]

I'm interested in this too.

Absolutely no story. Sacramento is the most dysfunctional team in the NBA. They moved him for a more established player in Patrick Patterson. Houston just wants cap space. This is the team who amnestied Scola to free up cap space for a Howard or Bynum deal. His guaranteed money is movable because he was a lotto pick last season and teams are interested in acquiring a top 5 talent without being in the bottom five of the league.

[Cowboys_Wear_Spurs]

I like the kid, he plays with heart and he has alot athleticism and he is smart player. He made pretty awesome no look past last year, so you know he has a pretty high BB IQ. The problem is his fundamentals are pretty bad. You can tell he was just used to getting by on his athleticism and that usually doesn't fly in the NBA. This is where a team has to be willing to develop the guy. Kings weren't and that was the problem for the get go. Spurs are known for just that. He needs to learn more post moves as well as work on his jumper and d stance and rotations.

This is something he can Learn under Duncan and the Spurs coaching staff. Bonner and a 2nd for Robinson would be awesome pickup for the Spurs.

[Cowboys_Wear_Spurs]

He's not wrong. Bonner's contract has $1M guaranteed. The Rockets need to clear the entire amount of TR's contract, not all but $1M of it, to get to where they need to be in order to be able to offer Dwight Howard the max that they can offer.

I believe there is 1mill dollar guarantee meaning that is the buyout for Bonner. Houston could pay Bonner 1mil before a preset date, October or something and completely clear him off their books.

[DPG21920]

:pctoss

A three team trade in this scenario is not that difficult. If Spurs are really high on T-Rob and HOU is willing to do it just to clear cap space, you can see something like:

Team With Cap Space Gets: Bonner + 28th Pick
Houston Gets: Future Draft pick
SAS Gets: Thomas Robinson

Cap space team essentially eats Bonner's 1M (could even give them cash to pay that) + plus gets a late first round pick for their trouble.

Spurs get their guy for Bonner (which they can't do with HOU straight up because of the 1M dollars Bonner is owed).

HOU gets all the cap space from moving Thomas Robinson and perhaps a protected future 1st or 2nd round pick.

[Chinook]

I believe there is 1mill dollar guarantee meaning that is the buyout for Bonner. Houston could pay Bonner 1mil before a preset date, October or something and completely clear him off their books.

No. It's not a buyout. The NBA doesn't work that way. This isn't baseball.

[Chinook]

A three team trade in this scenario is not that difficult. If Spurs are really high on T-Rob and HOU is willing to do it just to clear cap space, you can see something like:

Team With Cap Space Gets: Bonner + 28th Pick
Houston Gets: Future Draft pick
SAS Gets: Thomas Robinson

Cap space team essentially eats Bonner's 1M (could even give them cash to pay that) + plus gets a late first round pick for their trouble.

Spurs get their guy for Bonner (which they can't do with HOU straight up because of the 1M dollars Bonner is owed).

HOU gets all the cap space from moving Thomas Robinson and perhaps a protected future 1st or 2nd round pick.

It's even simpler than that.

Team with cap space (Cleveland for example) gets Bonner, a million in cash and the rights to some player or a second-rounder.
Houston gets the 28th pick
The Spurs get Robinson (and something useless from Cleveland to make the trade work by league rules)

Since Cleveland is so far below the cap, the only thing they really have to worry about his Bonner's guaranteed money. If the Spurs give them the money, then it's a net-neutral trade for them. The Spurs could even just give more than a million to Cleveland, essentially using cash to buy some cap space.

[dallasmaverickslose]

Would like to get him, but don't want to have to give up a draft pick tbh.

[TheyCallMePro]

Why do we want another Dejaun Blair? Am I missing something here? At least Dejuan knows how to pass and has some nifty moves around the basket. Robinson is a raw, undersized head case.

Nobody wants him for good reason. Already 1 team has traded him and another is trying to. There's a reason people. The Spurs won't end up biting on this one. Unless they get him practically for free. Which wont happen because he was such a high draft pick just a year ago.

[spurraider21]

It's even simpler than that.

Team with cap space (Cleveland for example) gets Bonner, a million in cash and the rights to some player or a second-rounder.
Houston gets the 28th pick
The Spurs get Robinson (and something useless from Cleveland to make the trade work by league rules)

Since Cleveland is so far below the cap, the only thing they really have to worry about his Bonner's guaranteed money. If the Spurs give them the money, then it's a net-neutral trade for them. The Spurs could even just give more than a million to Cleveland, essentially using cash to buy some cap space.

i think houston would prefer a future pick since getting the 28th pick would create a small (but everything matters) cap hold, which they would presumably try to avoid

[DPG21920]

It's even simpler than that.

Team with cap space (Cleveland for example) gets Bonner, a million in cash and the rights to some player or a second-rounder.
Houston gets the 28th pick
The Spurs get Robinson (and something useless from Cleveland to make the trade work by league rules)

Since Cleveland is so far below the cap, the only thing they really have to worry about his Bonner's guaranteed money. If the Spurs give them the money, then it's a net-neutral trade for them. The Spurs could even just give more than a million to Cleveland, essentially using cash to buy some cap space.

That works too. Just wanted to show it was not a complicated deal to that poster throwing the PC :lol. But I think CLE, in order to help two teams out would probably want the best pick, but who knows.

[DPG21920]

i think houston would prefer a future pick since getting the 28th pick would create a small (but everything matters) cap hold, which they would presumably try to avoid

Nah - they could just draft and stash someone and not take the hit.

[exstatic]

Third team in two years....

RC's best friend is KU coach Bill Self. If he was a bad kid or a bust prospect SA would know and wouldn't be pursuing him.

[tesseractive]

It's even simpler than that.

Team with cap space (Cleveland for example) gets Bonner, a million in cash and the rights to some player or a second-rounder.
Houston gets the 28th pick
The Spurs get Robinson (and something useless from Cleveland to make the trade work by league rules)

Since Cleveland is so far below the cap, the only thing they really have to worry about his Bonner's guaranteed money. If the Spurs give them the money, then it's a net-neutral trade for them. The Spurs could even just give more than a million to Cleveland, essentially using cash to buy some cap space.
So why does Cleveland (or whoever) go to the trouble to help us? Would sending extra cash be enough, or would they want us to send something of more value?

On a related note, is there a general going rate for this kind of trade facilitation?

[DPG21920]

So why does Cleveland (or whoever) go to the trouble to help us? Would sending extra cash be enough, or would they want us to send something of more value?

On a related note, is there a general going rate for this kind of trade facilitation?

Well obviously it can differ from team to team (which is why I had the Spurs pick going to CLE for their troubles), but either way you can see it's quite easy to get this deal done if they really want to IMO.

[tesseractive]

RC's best friend is KU coach Bill Self. If he was a bad kid or a bust prospect SA would know and wouldn't be pursuing him.
Based on that ESPN story someone posted, they adored this kid. Self, the Morris twins' mom, and half the state of Kansas volunteered to help raise his little sister after his mom died.

[Chinook]

So why does Cleveland (or whoever) go to the trouble to help us? Would sending extra cash be enough, or would they want us to send something of more value?

On a related note, is there a general going rate for this kind of trade facilitation?

Cleveland pretty much gets a second-rounder for free. They literally do not have to pay a dime for the player. They just have to fill out some paperwork to agree to the trade and then to waive Bonner. It shouldn't be a big deal.

Usually, the facilitating team just gets an asset. It's usually not in the form of a first-rounder or anything. Sometimes they get a player they like (like the Wolves go Anthony Randolph in the NY/HOU deal in 2009), but it's typically not much.

[tesseractive]

Well obviously it can differ from team to team (which is why I had the Spurs pick going to CLE for their troubles), but either way you can see it's quite easy to get this deal done if they really want to IMO.
It's nice to see that it can get done. If the scouting reports aren't too wildly off base, he has a ton of tools and given some time working with our player development folks, he could potentially be a plus defender and rebounder who could score from the post, the elbows and off drives, and maybe even from behind the arc.

I don't know that there's a scenario where he's a franchise player, but if we can develop him, he could potentially be the second or third guy on a contender. A guy like that who's young doesn't become available to us very often.

[tesseractive]

Cleveland doesn't pretty much gets a second-rounder for free. They literally do not have to pay a dime for the player. They just have to fill out some paperwork to agree to the trade and then to waive Bonner. It shouldn't be a big deal.

Usually, the facilitating team just gets an asset. It's usually not in the form of a first-rounder or anything. Sometimes they get a player they like (like the Wolves go Anthony Randolph in the NY/HOU deal in 2009), but it's typically not much.
Thanks, that's good to know.

[exstatic]

That's fine, except Cleveland is our competition for this trade. Doubt they want to help us in this.

[bthewigwam]

Based on that ESPN story someone posted, they adored this kid. Self, the Morris twins' mom, and half the state of Kansas volunteered to help raise his little sister after his mom died.

that was me. and wasn't just his mom. was his two grandparents who took care of him and mom, all in a span in 3 1/2 weeks who died. he's the real deal.

[baseline bum]

i think houston would prefer a future pick since getting the 28th pick would create a small (but everything matters) cap hold, which they would presumably try to avoid

Houston will get a cap hold of around $490,000 for not having that player, vs paying about $890,000 I think for the guy they'd draft at 28.

[TheGoldStandard]

Lets make this deal happen.

[bthewigwam]

shit if you really want to know what kind of guy he is read the story, you won't doubt him as a Spur. As far as skills, there's a reason he was drafted where he was. Once you read the story, you'll have no doubt he was on the wrong teams. He's a Spur at heart.

[TheGoldStandard]

shit if you really want to know what kind of guy he is read the story, you won't doubt him as a Spur. As far as skills, there's a reason he was drafted where he was. Once you read the story, you'll have no doubt he was on the wrong teams. He's a Spur at heart.

He's got game when he was on the court but he needs someone to coach him up, he's still pretty raw but athletic as hell.

[bthewigwam]

He's got game when he was on the court but he needs someone to coach him up, he's still pretty raw but athletic as hell.

completely agree. but who's the best coaching staff to do that and who has the best teammates to do that? I'm not saying it'll happen or that I even think it will. Just saying as a Missouri fan in the MU KU rivalry, I hope it does cuz he's the best college athlete/ person I've ever seen, as a man. and trust me I hate KU. he'd goes balls out. no homo.

[TheGoldStandard]

completely agree. but who's the best coaching staff to do that and who has the best teammates to do that? I'm not saying it'll happen or that I even think it will. Just saying as a Missouri fan in the MU KU rivalry, I hope it does cuz he's the best college athlete/ person I've ever seen, as a man. and trust me I hate KU. he'd goes balls out. no homo.

I would love this deal too but probably won't happen, Cleveland will trade for him and he'll be on the bench as another piece. Spurs will probably get him though when he's 33 or so.

[dallasmaverickslose]

I would love this deal too but probably won't happen, Cleveland will trade for him and he'll be on the bench as another piece. Spurs will probably get him though when he's 33 or so.

or 43

[TheGoldStandard]

or 43

Damn, you know that sounds funny but at the same time you would think wow, 21 years in the league.. Damn

[dallasmaverickslose]

Damn, you know that sounds funny but at the same time you would think wow, 21 years in the league.. Damn

Maybe he'd have some experience?

[TheGoldStandard]

Maybe he'd have some experience?

Yes, he'd be ready to learn the system.

[hsxvvd]

Thomas ain't a headcase or a bad kid and he appeared to have some skills in College. He issue seems to relate to the clarity of his position in the NBA and also the depth (more investment not skill) in players ahead of him at Sacramento and Houston.

[dallasmaverickslose]

Yes, he'd be ready to learn the system.

I guess we'll check back in a few decades then

[MR-Clutch]

I would really love for the spurs to get this kid. Seems like a Blair with way more potential and athleticism on both ends. If the spurs could develop him, he could be a very solid player for us.

[Jordanobili2320]

Why do we want another Dejaun Blair? Am I missing something here? At least Dejuan knows how to pass and has some nifty moves around the basket. Robinson is a raw, undersized head case.

Nobody wants him for good reason. Already 1 team has traded him and another is trying to. There's a reason people. The Spurs won't end up biting on this one. Unless they get him practically for free. Which wont happen because he was such a high draft pick just a year ago.

Not really fair to say he is undersized. He is 6'9 or so and is just as strong as Blair. He has a higher ceiling than Blair as well.

[jiggy_55]

Sam Amico (@SamAmicoFSO)
Spurs, I'm told, still n running for Thomas Robinson as well. By this time Friday, he likely will no longer be a Rocket, man.

[Baam]

349940702932770816

[TheGoldStandard]

They need to make this deal happen. He's not undersized, he's athletic as hell, has his ACLs, works hard for everything just needs to learn. He can rebound like a mother.

[look_at_g_shred]

They need to make this deal happen. He's not undersized, he's athletic as hell, has his ACLs, works hard for everything just needs to learn. He can rebound like a mother.

Imagine him and Kawhi on the boards..:wow

[TheGoldStandard]

Shoot, and only 22? Sky is the limit, plus you have Tim as a mentor and the coaching staff to help develop his game.

[Outlier]

Yes, he is undersized. A little shorter than Patrick Patterson and plays like a small forward. I watch the Rockets a lot. I wouldn't expect much from T-Rob.

[TheGoldStandard]

Yes, he is undersized. A little shorter than Patrick Patterson and plays like a small forward. I watch the Rockets a lot. I wouldn't expect much from T-Rob.

He hasn't been on the court with a real team, and when he has been on the court its for low minutes.. The guy can ball and he can get stronger and develop a game. He's much tougher then Tiago Splitter for his size.

[ace3g]

Marc Stein @ESPNSteinLine
(http://twitter.com/ESPNSteinLine)Follow-up trade rumble: Bulls intend to flip Thomas Robinson in subsequent (or connected) deal if they take him from Rockets for No. 20 pick

There are rumors that Aldridge wants to go to the Bulls, could be part of that potential trade.

[LakerHater]

Spurs Will Lose Out In Both Aldridge & Thomas, Per The Usual!!

[DPG21920]

Can't believe they can get a top 20 pick from someone for Thomas Robinson. Not only that, but these teams offering a top 20 pick are doing HOU a massive favor knowing they have to trade him to clear cap space and save money!

[RD2191]

Our only hope is the draft.

[Roger Freemason Jr.]

I think the Spurs are more interested in Thomas Robinson than they let on.

[TheGoldStandard]

The Rockets have to also consider that taking a 19 or 20 pick has cap considerations, even if they cut the player.

[chrhawk]

Marc Stein @ESPNSteinLine
(http://twitter.com/ESPNSteinLine)Follow-up trade rumble: Bulls intend to flip Thomas Robinson in subsequent (or connected) deal if they take him from Rockets for No. 20 pick

There are rumors that Aldridge wants to go to the Bulls, could be part of that potential trade.





Aldridge to the Bulls without giving up Deng or Butler would be the perfect impact move that they would need.

[DPG21920]

I just don't understand why a team would give up a top 20 pick when they know HOU has to move him and it would save HOU money. That part makes no sense. Even if you like TR, he's on the verge of being traded twice already and HOU has no leverage.

If you say "we know you have to move him and we like him, we will save you the money by absorbing his contract and you can get a Trade Exception, deal"? When they have to move, how could they say no?

[Chinook]

I don't see what the Bulls have to give the Blazers besides Noah.

[chrhawk]

I don't see what the Bulls have to give the Blazers besides Noah.

I think they would try to make Taj Gibson the centerpiece of a trade.

[DPG21920]

I don't see what the Bulls have to give the Blazers besides Noah.

Does offering a top 20 pick for TR make any sense to you?

[Chinook]

I think they would try to make Taj Gibson the centerpiece of a trade.

So Gibson, Robinson, Teague and two firsts? Not a terrible deal, really.

EDIT: Ooh, they also have Mirotic's rights, which are probably the most valuable of all international players. They actually do have some really good pieces.

[TheGoldStandard]

Robinson also has a 2 year deal right that's guaranteed? Team option for 3rd and 4th year? So why would you give up a pick for that? I'd just take on the additional payroll for 1 season to free up the space and keep my pick.

[chrhawk]

Marc Stein: Follow-up trade rumble: Bulls intend to flip Thomas Robinson in subsequent (or connected) deal if they take him from Rockets for No. 20 pick Twitter @ESPNSteinLine

[Chinook]

Does offering a top 20 pick for TR make any sense to you?

If the Blazers want him, why not? Getting him would make it easier to match salaries for Aldridge, and even if he'd be getting traded to his FOURTH team in about one year, he's still more valuable than a player picked at 20.

The concern would be if they can't move him. Then, he'd push them deep into the tax, and they'd remain near that even if they amnesty Boozer. At best, Robinson would be the third big, and they really shouldn't pay that much when they have Malcolm Thomas and Mirotic in the pipeline.

[chrhawk]

Just realized somebody posted that link already my bad.

[DesignatedT]

Kinda confused on why the Rockets would want a first rounder. Isn't the objective there to shed cap space? First rounder is just another guaranteed contract.

[DPG21920]

That's my point. Take everything else out of it, if a team has to move someone to get critical cap space and you are saving them money, why on Earth would they give you a pick on top of bailing you out financially?

I highly doubt that getting TR would really make trading LA easier considering the level of player. He has not performed like you would hope a top pick would and really has not done enough to say he's worth a top 20 pick considering advance metrics have this draft as reasonably productive. You don't give up first rounders unless you have to and under no circumstance does this qualify IMO (HOU has to move him, you dont really love him, has not performed all that well and not guaranteed to be able to flip him).

If you are the Cavs, why would you offer your 19th? I see at least some logic to CHI doing it (although it's still silly IMO), but CLE?

[DPG21920]

Kinda confused on why the Rockets would want a first rounder. Isn't the objective there to shed cap space? First rounder is just another guaranteed contract.

You can quite easily draft a stash player and not take any hit.

[Chinook]

Kinda confused on why the Rockets would want a first rounder. Isn't the objective there to shed cap space? First rounder is just another guaranteed contract.

One thing they could do is stash the pick and not pay the salary until next season. That could be preferable to them, as they will eventually need cheap players to fill out their roster.

I could see them trying for Mirotic's rights instead of a first if they trade with Chicago. That way, they either get no cap hold or a very small one (like $400k).

[DesignatedT]

Not sure why I didn't think of that. Of course.

[Chinook]

I don't think Cleveland wants their picks. They've drafted enough, and 19 is not that valuable to them. At least 31 and 33 will help them get international players. If they can turn 19 into a player with top-5 talent, they would have done a good job.

[DPG21920]

I don't think Cleveland wants their picks. They've drafted enough, and 19 is not that valuable to them. At least 31 and 33 will help them get international players. If they can turn 19 into a player with top-5 talent, they would have done a good job.

Well, in this case, it appears they would not be doing that in Thomas Robinson or else he would not be bouncing around.

[look_at_g_shred]

So if they trade this guy, it would either be today or tomorrow correct?

[DPG21920]

If it's for a pick, yes. If not, then they just need to trade him before they make their pitch to Dwight (July 1st).

[Chinook]

Well, in this case, it appears they would not be doing that in Thomas Robinson or else he would not be bouncing around.

Sacramento is not known for making good decisions, and Houston is pretty heartless about making deals. If Chicago believes Robinson is the missing piece to get Lamarcus Aldridge that demonstrates Robinson's value around the league.

Wouldn't it be funny if Robinson ultimately ended up coming through the Spurs after being traded to Chicago, then Portland and finally as part of a sign-and-trade for Splitter?

Anyhow, the Rockets don't have to trade Robinson until it comes time to actually sign Howard. That means about the 10th of July. They can certainly recruit Howard and get him to agree to a deal before they officially get the cap space. The moratorium is enough time to work out all the details.

[Mr Bones]

I wouldn't complain if the Spurs got him, but I think I'd still prefer a combination of Al Farouq Aminu-- whose rebounding skills are similar to Robinson's but who is a large SF rather than a just slightly undersized PF-- and a big like Brandan Wright who doesn't rebound like Robinson, but is a much better shot bocker and jump shooter.

[ace3g]

Sam Amico @SamAmicoFSO
(http://twitter.com/SamAmicoFSO)Bulls or Spurs have improved offer for Rockets F Thomas Robinson, I'm told. Cavs may be left out at the end.

--

Possibly why they hired Boylen, to work with Robinson

[look_at_g_shred]

Hmmm. If its the spurs, I wonder what RC's got up his sleeve...

[TheGoldStandard]

Bonner and the 28th Pick.. They could cut Bonner and only be out 1Mil

[SpursDynasty21]

I hope the Spurs can find a way to acquire Thomas Robinson and keep their first round pick.

[T Park]

If they could get Thomas Robinson I'd bet Tiago gets a S&T

[TheGoldStandard]

I hope the Spurs can find a way to acquire Thomas Robinson and keep their first round pick.

Sign and trade with Portland if they acquire Thomas from Chicago.., trade bonner straight up with cash considerations.

[FvckMavs]

lobek's right?

[DPG21920]

This doesn't make any sense. Why are people so high on TR? Saying you can let Tiago go because you can get him? Offering up first rounders for a guy HOU has to move? I feel like I'm taking crazy pills!

[Cowboys_Wear_Spurs]

I see the Rockets returning the Scola favor and giving the Spurs Robinson for peanuts. That's just my hunch. Houston still owe the Spurs one on that deal.

[TheGoldStandard]

This doesn't make any sense. Why are people so high on TR? Saying you can let Tiago go because you can get him? Offering up first rounders for a guy HOU has to move? I feel like I'm taking crazy pills!

He has a high motor, works hard, was in Purgatory in Sacramento, Houston had way too many PF for him to get meaningful minutes and no coaching to learn to play the NBA style game. Tiago is going to cost too much and he's pretty maxed out offensively.

[DPG21920]

wtf

[look_at_g_shred]

Super athletic guy who's not afraid to take advantage of match up and is no slouch under the rim or on the glass.

[DPG21920]

I'm not against Thomas Robinson, but some of the things that have been said..wow.

Also, props to HOU for turning a guy who has not produced yet, that they absolutely have to move, into a guy everyone evidently is clamoring for.

[Bruno]

Robinson makes little sense for Chicago right now. They are in a very complicate situation luxury tax wise and adding Robinson's salary while they are fine at PF with Boozer and Gibson, would be weird. As Stein tweeted, Robinson could be send to a third team but Bulls could get Robinson for themselves and amnesty Boozer.

[Sean Cagney]

Robinson makes little sense for Chicago right now. They are in a very complicate situation luxury tax wise and adding Robinson's salary while they are fine at PF with Boozer and Gibson, would be weird. As Stein tweeted, Robinson could be send to a third team but Bulls could get Robinson for themselves and amnesty Boozer.
The Bulls will end up getting him, nothing to see here.

[tesseractive]

This doesn't make any sense. Why are people so high on TR? Saying you can let Tiago go because you can get him? Offering up first rounders for a guy HOU has to move? I feel like I'm taking crazy pills!
I'm super high on him, but not so high that I think we should let Tiago walk.

Sacto demonstrated that he can't just walk out onto an NBA court and be effective -- he needs coaching. He should come in here as the 4th or 5th big initially, and have to earn PT as he acclimates. If he comes along really well, I could easily see him taking Boris's spot as the third big man at some point. If he comes along Kawhi Leonard style, I could see him getting starts ahead of Tiago by the end, but we still need a good big man who can bang with most centers and spell Tim, so dumping Tiago would be a big mistake. And, of course, if Robinson spends the year in Pop's doghouse, we still have our 3 best guys from last year.

If, by the end of the 2013-14, Robinson has somehow completely supplanted Tiago, it might make sense to put Tiago on the trade block next summer, but typically the market for centers who can do more than fog up a mirror is fairly robust.

[T Park]

Robinson is a stud defender and rebounder. Very athletic.

[TheGoldStandard]

I'm super high on him, but not so high that I think we should let Tiago walk.

Sacto demonstrated that he can't just walk out onto an NBA court and be effective -- he needs coaching. He should come in here as the 4th or 5th big initially, and have to earn PT as he acclimates. If he comes along really well, I could easily see him taking Boris's spot as the third big man at some point. If he comes along Kawhi Leonard style, I could see him getting starts ahead of Tiago by the end, but we still need a good big man who can bang with most centers and spell Tim, so dumping Tiago would be a big mistake. And, of course, if Robinson spends the year in Pop's doghouse, we still have our 3 best guys from last year.

If, by the end of the 2013-14, Robinson has somehow completely supplanted Tiago, it might make sense to put Tiago on the trade block next summer, but typically the market for centers who can do more than fog up a mirror is fairly robust.

Tiago is going to eat up a lot of cap space if they sign him so getting him and paying his remaining deal would be tough.. Biggest problem is if this kid does show promise we're still on the hook for Tiago and next year free agency will be like it was when LeBron was on the market, lots of players will be available and that's why teams are making runs to clear cap space. Plus with the new CBA nobody wants to take on that kind of salary. Tiago is a competent defender with true bigs but if they're athletic they can get around him and his offense is probably peaked.

[raybies]

I see David west potential with t Rob. They have similar builds. T Rob just needs some consistent looks. A role.

[DesignatedT]

I wouldn't let Tiago walk because of it but Robinson could end up being a huge pick up. Him playing in the Spurs system, with the Spurs development staff and with Tim Duncan could be just what he needs to tap into that fifth pick overall potential.

I would give up our 28th in a heartbeat for this to go through. This draft's talent is very mediocre to begin with and the talent level really drops off in the early to mid twenties.

[DPG21920]

I wouldn't let Tiago walk because of it but Robinson could end up being a huge pick up. Him playing in the Spurs system, with the Spurs development staff and with Tim Duncan could be just what he needs to tap into that fifth pick overall potential.

I would give up our 28th in a heartbeat for this to go through. This draft's talent is very mediocre to begin with and the talent level really drops off in the early to mid twenties.

Sure, that I agree with. But people talking about him like teams should be upping their offers from a top 20 pick? Letting proven players go? No matter what, HOU has to move him, so that is the part that bothers me most. If you are going to ave a team 3-4M you shouldn't have to give up much more when they literally have to move him.

[DesignatedT]

On another note, why hasn't Diaw picked up his option yet?

[loveforthegame]

Damn. I don't like getting my hopes up.

Would love to see Robinson on the team. Perfect atmosphere for him to excell.

[spursince#99]

I wouldn't complain if the Spurs got him, but I think I'd still prefer a combination of Al Farouq Aminu-- whose rebounding skills are similar to Robinson's but who is a large SF rather than a just slightly undersized PF-- and a big like Brandan Wright who doesn't rebound like Robinson, but is a much better shot bocker and jump shooter.


THIS

[DPG21920]

On another note, why hasn't Diaw picked up his option yet?

Only reason I can think of is:

1) He does not want to get traded on draft night. If he knew what he wants and doesn't really care about being possibly traded, he would likely have picked the option up already.

2) He's really not sure what he wants to do.

[tesseractive]

Tiago is going to eat up a lot of cap space if they sign him so getting him and paying his remaining deal would be tough.. Biggest problem is if this kid does show promise we're still on the hook for Tiago and next year free agency will be like it was when LeBron was on the market, lots of players will be available and that's why teams are making runs to clear cap space. Plus with the new CBA nobody wants to take on that kind of salary. Tiago is a competent defender with true bigs but if they're athletic they can get around him and his offense is probably peaked.
1. Tim is unlikely to be with the team by the end of Tiago's deal. Tiago certainly can't give us what Tim does, but having a guy who can even be a functional starting center on the roster when Tim retires is a pretty useful thing.

2. As long as we don't break the bank to sign Tiago to a crazy contract, that actually makes him more tradeable. Tiago at $12M is a boat anchor for our cap, but Tiago at $7M is very cheap for a decent starting center who can defend and who's great at setting screens and rolling to the basket. It's not like teams can find just any guy of the street for a minimum contract who can do that.

[tesseractive]

Sure, that I agree with. But people talking about him like teams should be upping their offers from a top 20 pick? Letting proven players go? No matter what, HOU has to move him, so that is the part that bothers me most. If you are going to ave a team 3-4M you shouldn't have to give up much more when they literally have to move him.
But see, if you're bidding against other teams, you don't have Houston over a barrel. They have to move him, but they don't have to move him to us.

[TheGoldStandard]

1. Tim is unlikely to be with the team by the end of Tiago's deal. Tiago certainly can't give us what Tim does, but having a guy who can even be a functional starting center on the roster when Tim retires is a pretty useful thing.

2. As long as we don't break the bank to sign Tiago to a crazy contract, that actually makes him more tradeable. Tiago at $12M is a boat anchor for our cap, but Tiago at $7M is very cheap for a decent starting center who can defend and who's great at setting screens and rolling to the basket. It's not like teams can find just any guy of the street for a minimum contract who can do that.

7Mil is on the high end for what I'd pay him, more like 5M to be honest to keep with the status quo of the league but someone will over pay him.. My concern is that we'll also have to pay Kawhi soon too.

[DPG21920]

But see, if you're bidding against other teams, you don't have Houston over a barrel. They have to move him, but they don't have to move him to us.

I get that which is why I gave HOU major props for turning a non-performer to date, that everyone and their momma knows they have to move, into a bidding war :lol

[FvckMavs]

But see, if you're bidding against other teams, you don't have Houston over a barrel. They have to move him, but they don't have to move him to us.

Exactly. The price goes up when you have more than one bidder.

[tesseractive]

I get that which is why I gave HOU major props for turning a non-performer to date, that everyone and their momma knows they have to move, into a bidding war :lol
I don't know if Morey will ever field an elite team, but he has definitely mastered the market for NBA trades. :lol

[TheGreatYacht]

7Mil is on the high end for what I'd pay him, more like 5M to be honest to keep with the status quo of the league but someone will over pay him.. My concern is that we'll also have to pay Kawhi soon too.$5M sounds about reasonable for Tiago. Don't worry about Kawhi though because Tim Duncan and Tony Parker (not sure about TP) will be free agents by the time Kawhi becomes a free agent. TD will either retire or take less money to allow the Spurs to keep Kawhi, same goes for TP. In other words, Kawhi will probably end up taking part of TD's and TP's salary by the time Kawhi is a FA.
.

[Marrow]

I would give up our 28th in a heartbeat for this to go through. This draft's talent is very mediocre to begin with and the talent level really drops off in the early to mid twenties.

Define talent...i think this draft has the potential to have some solid role player/contributer types.

A 28th pick should be more than enough for T Rob considering the Rockets NEED the capsapce. However you do have to contend with all the other incompetent gms who will throw numerous picks and proven players at the thought of acquiring a player who is still only valued in terms of "potential"

[BatManu20]

Calling it right now: The Cavaliers are going to trade the 19th overall pick to the Rockets for Robinson. Houston will then select an international prospect who will stay overseas for a year or two so they won't have to sacrifice any cap space (for the Dwight Howard sweepstakes). Maybe a player like Giannis Adetokunbo (who I really like).

[TheGoldStandard]

The biggest thing to consider is that only 3.5 Million is left guaranteed everything else is a team option.

[Bruno]

I will wait to see what is the actual trade before giving some kind of props to Houston. Al these rumors could be leaked by Rocket's FO to raise Robinson's market value and it's far form sure that it will work at the end.

[DPG21920]

I will wait to see what is the actual trade before giving some kind of props to Houston. Al these rumors could be leaked by Rocket's FO to raise Robinson's market value and it's far form sure that it will work at the end.

Agreed. It doesn't make sense on the surface, but there are quite a few foolish GM's out there.

[tesseractive]

7Mil is on the high end for what I'd pay him, more like 5M to be honest to keep with the status quo of the league but someone will over pay him.. My concern is that we'll also have to pay Kawhi soon too.
Given the centers that get max money in this league, my guess is that if Tiago wants to go to the team that will pay him the most, he could actually get $12M, maybe even more. Around the league, I doubt anyone will say he's overpaid if he gets something in the $8-10M range. (On ST, of course, is another matter.) Anything less than $8M is a coup.

$5M is what you pay a backup center that doesn't completely embarrass you when he's in the rotation on an average night in Milwaukee in January.

[TheGoldStandard]

Given the centers that get max money in this league, my guess is that if Tiago wants to go to the team that will pay him the most, he could actually get $12M, maybe even more. Around the league, I doubt anyone will say he's overpaid if he gets something in the $8-10M range. (On ST, of course, is another matter.) Anything less than $8M is a coup.

$5M is what you pay a backup center that doesn't completely embarrass you when he's in the rotation on an average night in Milwaukee in January.

I'd rather him walk for 8 or 10M.. Sure, he's competent for the regular season but given a 7 games series any team that can meet him at the free throw line at the pick n roll and doesn't rush the PG can stop him dead in his tracks and make him turn over the ball with ease. He has no feel for offense at all especially in the playoffs.

[tesseractive]

I'd rather him walk for 8 or 10M.. Sure, he's competent for the regular season but given a 7 games series any team that can meet him at the free throw line at the pick n roll and doesn't rush the PG can stop him dead in his tracks and make him turn over the ball with ease. He has no feel for offense at all especially in the playoffs.

He was an effective player through 3 rounds of the playoffs, and a big reason we got past Memphis. He also hasn't hit his ceiling yet, and this was his first year going this deep in the playoffs. In a year or two, he could be a plus member of the rotation all the way to the end. If we replace him with anyone who hasn't played that deep in the playoffs, that player has to go through the process of acclimating to that level of intensity as well.

[Chinook]

Splitter hasn't hit his ceiling yet. He can definitely develop a mid-range shot, which would allow him to either roll or pop after screening. Before people pretend like he can't, know that he used to have one in Europe. I'm sure if he focuses on that this off-season, he'll be a pretty reliable one. And if people try to say that just because he did that in Europe doesn't mean he can do it in the NBA, recount that he was actually a good free-throw shooter in Europe before he came to the States and sucked it up for a year until he worked on it and became good again.

[Baam]

We don't need a jumper we need him to bully small ball pf in the post and he won't ever be able to do it, his rebounding won't get better either.

[spurraider21]

I'd prefer that Tiago DOESN'T develop a jumper because then his soft ass will settle for it 10 times out of 10

[BatManu20]

Splitter's half way to 29 years old.. I seriously doubt he improves that much more as a player. I can't see him developing a good jump shot all of a sudden. Plus, like ^ said, if he starts knocking that down that's literally all he will shoot, and that just won't be good for anyone.

[Chinook]

We don't need a jumper we need him to bully small ball pf in the post and he won't ever be able to do it, his rebounding won't get better either.

He was fine going up against the Memphis bigs.


I'd prefer that Tiago DOESN'T develop a jumper because then his soft ass will settle for it 10 times out of 10


Splitter's half way to 29 years old.. I seriously doubt he improves that much more as a player. I can't see him developing a good jump shot all of a sudden. Plus, like ^ said, if he starts knocking that down that's literally all he will shoot, and that just won't be good for anyone.

That's like saying that if Danny Green learns to finish, he'll stop shooting threes. Splitter had a jump shot in Europe and still focused on the PnR. Literally, the only thing the jump shot would do is make him harder to guard. Instead of Miami being able to pounce on him in the post, they'd have to worry about him sliding out to the wing instead. That would have made all of the Heat's rotations more difficult, and it would have prevented Bosh from helping as much as he did.

[hooperflash]

Damn. I don't like getting my hopes up.

Would love to see Robinson on the team. Perfect atmosphere for him to excell.

Hearing the Spurs PA, Sean, and Bill call up the name Robinson would give me chills thinking about The Admiral.

[tesseractive]

Splitter hasn't hit his ceiling yet. He can definitely develop a mid-range shot, which would allow him to either roll or pop after screening. Before people pretend like he can't, know that he used to have one in Europe. I'm sure if he focuses on that this off-season, he'll be a pretty reliable one. And if people try to say that just because he did that in Europe doesn't mean he can do it in the NBA, recount that he was actually a good free-throw shooter in Europe before he came to the States and sucked it up for a year until he worked on it and became good again.
Nice. I thought I remembered that he used to have a J. That would make a huge difference.

[Baam]

He was fine going up against the Memphis bigs.

Yeah he was fine on defense, defense and passing are his two biggest strengths but he has basically no post game on offense and is a weak rebounder so it's extremely hard to keep him on the floor vs small ball units.

A sick David West was 10 times better vs Miami.

Bottom line he was really useful in one series in 3 years... It's not good no matter how you put it.

[Chinook]

Yeah he was fine on defense, defense and passing are his two biggest strengths but he has basically no post game on offense and is a weak rebounder so it's extremely hard to keep him on the floor vs small ball units.

A sick David West was 10 times better vs Miami.

Bottom line he was really useful in one series in 3 years... It's not good no matter how you put it.

It was the opposite: He was useful in all but one series. He was good against the Lakers the first three games. His mobility really helped against the Warriors. And his post defense came up big again in Memphis.

Splitter is a fine offensive big in the PnR. He may even be the best in the league at it. The only thing that can limit it is its predictability. If Splitter got a jumper, then the defense wouldn't know where he was going to go after he set the pick, and the help would be a lot slower on his rolls. There are tons of reasons why Duncan was better in the pick-and-roll than Splitter, but the biggest one was him having a reliable jumper.

None of that excludes him getting post moves, though. He certainly is still young enough to develop those, especially now that he has two new big-man coaches.

[Baam]

It was the opposite: He was useful in all but one series. He was good against the Lakers the first three games. His mobility really helped against the Warriors. And his post defense came up big again in Memphis.

Splitter is a fine offensive big in the PnR. He may even be the best in the league at it. The only thing that can limit it is its predictability. If Splitter got a jumper, then the defense wouldn't know where he was going to go after he set the pick, and the help would be a lot slower on his rolls. There are tons of reasons why Duncan was better in the pick-and-roll than Splitter, but the biggest one was him having a reliable jumper.

None of that excludes him getting post moves, though. He certainly is still young enough to develop those, especially now that he has two new big-man coaches.

He had a negative plus minus in the Lakers series and was pretty much the worst player for the Spurs, he was useful at the end of the Warrior series but the Memphis series is pretty much his only good one in 3 years.

[therealtruth]

It was the opposite: He was useful in all but one series. He was good against the Lakers the first three games. His mobility really helped against the Warriors. And his post defense came up big again in Memphis.

Splitter is a fine offensive big in the PnR. He may even be the best in the league at it. The only thing that can limit it is its predictability. If Splitter got a jumper, then the defense wouldn't know where he was going to go after he set the pick, and the help would be a lot slower on his rolls. There are tons of reasons why Duncan was better in the pick-and-roll than Splitter, but the biggest one was him having a reliable jumper.

None of that excludes him getting post moves, though. He certainly is still young enough to develop those, especially now that he has two new big-man coaches.

Splitter's got some post moves. He just needs to refine them and get chances to use them. There was a point in '12 where he was scoring pretty well in the post.

[therealtruth]

Yeah he was fine on defense, defense and passing are his two biggest strengths but he has basically no post game on offense and is a weak rebounder so it's extremely hard to keep him on the floor vs small ball units.

A sick David West was 10 times better vs Miami.

Bottom line he was really useful in one series in 3 years... It's not good no matter how you put it.

He was too predictable. The Heat figured out when he got the ball in the post he was going to pass. Ironically non of the other teams figured that out.

[Strategic]

The notion that the Spurs are going to "outbid" other teams for Robinson is folly. I'm not sure that the Spurs would do anything this off season if not for the fact that they have renegotiation obligations.

[ThaBigFundamental21]

The notion that the Spurs are going to "outbid" other teams for Robinson is folly. I'm not sure that the Spurs would do anything this off season if not for the fact that they have renegotiation obligations.

The rumor is the Spurs upped the offer on him. The Spurs must see something they like in Robinson.

[yavozerb]

The rumor is the Spurs upped the offer on him. The Spurs must see something they like in Robinson.

Again, dont believe everything you read.

[jjktkk]

The rumor is the Spurs upped the offer on him. The Spurs must see something they like in Robinson.

Link?

[Texas_Ranger]

from hoopshype:

Sam Amico: Bulls or Spurs have improved offer for Rockets F Thomas Robinson, I'm told. Cavs may be left out at the end. Twitter SamAmicoFSO

[bthewigwam]

I don't see that on his twitter anywhere

[DesignatedT]

It was posted yesterday on twitter. It's in this thread already.

[look_at_g_shred]

So who was it that upped the offer, us or Chicago?

[JR3]

yeah whats with the use of the word "or" lol...

[benefactor]

I don't see that on his twitter anywhere
350095238955663360

[I. Hustle]

from hoopshype:

Sam Amico: Bulls or Spurs have improved offer for Rockets F Thomas Robinson, I'm told. Cavs may be left out at the end. Twitter SamAmicoFSO

http://24.media.tumblr.com/a74c94bebcedfbf1a78cd62889cc88d6/tumblr_mfjtxdIsVE1s1qav1o1_500.gif

[look_at_g_shred]

If we could Sign T-Rob, and Aminu. I'd be very happy with this off-season

[DesignatedT]

Alex Kennedy ‏@AlexKennedyNBA 8s
The Houston Rockets continue to shop Thomas Robinson. They want to dump his contract to free up money for their pursuit of top free agents.

[cd98]

Houston owes us a solid because of Scola. But I'm not convinced Robinson will turn out to be anything other than a dud. In other words, hope we don't give up anything significant.

[King]

350095238955663360

That's good, if true. I'm just convinced that other teams leak the Spurs name all the time, just to drive up other team's interest.

[T Park]

If we could Sign T-Rob, and Aminu. I'd be very happy with this off-season


Agreed. Would be worried about back up SG however.