What should the Spurs do with Manu this offseason?

[TheGreatYacht]

Most of you already know how much I am disgusted at Manu for costing Tim Duncan his 5th ring. IMO the perfect scenario would be option B which is to sign all the necessary FA's or missing pieces and then Manu can take whatever cap space remains.

I'm probably crucifying him by wishing that he would retire but TBH the FO should not allow Manu to dictate how much money he wants. FO should have a talk with him and ask him to do a similar sacrifice like the one that Tim Duncan did to sign Richard Jefferson.

If Manu rather be with his family and he actually enjoys his life off the court more than on the court, then I think he should consider retirement. The Spurs chances of winning another title next season will depend a lot on Manu's type of contract.

To all of you Manu fan boys, if Manu is the competitor that you'll claim him to be, if he cares about winning, if he is as loyal as Tim Duncan has been to the team, then Manu shouldn't have a problem making the necessary sacrifices to help the Spurs win a 5th championship.

[Spanklin]

Sign and trade to the Heat to get payback.

[ElNono]

Manu is a UFA, IIRC... the Spurs don't have any rights to 'renounce'...

I trust the FO knows what how to negotiate with free agents at this point :rolleyes

[TheGreatYacht]

Manu is a UFA, IIRC... the Spurs don't have any rights to 'renounce'...

I trust the FO knows what how to negotiate with free agents at this point :rolleyesPerhaps. Maybe I'm just traumatized of reading all these Manu fan boy comments.

[ElNono]

Perhaps. Maybe I'm just traumatized of reading all these Manu fan boy comments.

Chill... AFAIK, the FO doesn't post here...

[mr poop]

Perhaps. Maybe I'm just traumatized of reading all these Manu fan boy comments.Odd seeing how I read more hate mostly from you about Manu then I read of praise from his fanboys. Anyway I pick vets minimum, didn't really have the one choice I liked so I guess that one is the closest.

[spurraider21]

Manu is a UFA, IIRC... the Spurs don't have any rights to 'renounce'...

I trust the FO knows what how to negotiate with free agents at this point :rolleyes

they can technically renounce his bird rights, which would remove the cap hold, not that his bird rights are really going to come into play with the contract he is expected to sign

it would also mean we can't negotiate/sign him until free agency begins. we could theoretically extend him today

[SpurOutofTownFan]

Most of you already know how much I am disgusted at Manu for costing Tim Duncan his 5th ring. IMO the perfect scenario would be option B which is to sign all the necessary FA's or missing pieces and then Manu can take whatever cap space remains.

I'm probably crucifying him by wishing that he would retire but TBH the FO should not allow Manu to dictate how much money he wants. FO should have a talk with him and ask him to do a similar sacrifice like the one that Tim Duncan did to sign Richard Jefferson.

If Manu rather be with his family and he actually enjoys his life off the court more than on the court, then I think he should consider retirement. The Spurs chances of winning another title next season will depend a lot on Manu's type of contract.

To all of you Manu fan boys, if Manu is the competitor that you'll claim him to be, if he cares about winning, if he is as loyal as Tim Duncan has been to the team, then Manu shouldn't have a problem making the necessary sacrifices to help the Spurs win a 5th championship.

Lol another fail thread created by one of most adamant manu haters - you aren't deceiving anyone my child.

and that signature i dont think its warranted IMO

[ElNono]

they can technically renounce his bird rights, which would remove the cap hold, not that his bird rights are really going to come into play with the contract he is expected to sign

it would also mean we can't negotiate/sign him until free agency begins. we could theoretically extend him today

You're right, I pretty much erased bird rights off my mind in this case, since it's basically a formality, considering the length of the contract that makes sense and the fact that raises likely don't matter in this case.

BTW, I'm pretty sure option B is what's going to happen if Manu doesn't retire...

[Knoxxx]

We are holding plenty of cards to improve this team. I doubt Manu or the Spurs will want his contract to prevent a worthwhile FA acquisition. The Spurs will sort through those expertly and find the best/most realistic prospects.

While I could have strangled Manu many times myself, only having Green (and possibly Neal) at SG does not appeal to me much either.

[jARS mEsH sEt]

Perhaps. Maybe I'm just traumatized of reading all these Manu fan boy comments.

I actually find it hilarious seeing people like N0 LyF3 ScRuB, dallasmaverickslose, and superjames1992 constantly reek of butthurt because people are criticizing their messiah :rollin

I've never seen someone get as angry and insecure as N0 LyF3 ScRuB after people started (rightfully) criticizing Manu :lol

[dallasmaverickslose]

I actually find it hilarious seeing people like N0 LyF3 ScRuB (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=43681), dallasmaverickslose (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=18316), and superjames1992 (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=16685) constantly reek of butthurt because people are criticizing their messiah :rollin

I've never seen someone get as angry and insecure as N0 LyF3 ScRuB (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=43681) after people started (rightfully) criticizing Manu :lol

Yeah Manu sucks! Worst thing to ever happen to this organization!

[dallasmaverickslose]

The OP is a total dumbass. I'm not worshipping Manu's stats for the finals. He was appalling a majority of the time. I get that. That doesn't mean he was trying to make us lose on purpose. He played his heart out. He wanted that finals win as much as anyone.

The pathetic fact of the matter is that the dumb posters on here drinking the Manu haterade thinks its ok to call him names and talk crap about him. All I can say is these posters are ungrateful bastards and should become cHeat fans.

[texmich]

Lol another fail thread created by one of most adamant manu haters - you aren't deceiving anyone my child.

and that signature i dont think its warranted IMO
Damn that little cat is always riding manus sack, would hate to see what he or she would do if they met him http://sultr.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/tulowitzki-grabs-betancourt-nuts.gif

[TheGreatYacht]

The OP is a total dumbass. I'm not worshipping Manu's stats for the finals. He was appalling a majority of the time. I get that. That doesn't mean he was trying to make us lose on purpose. He played his heart out. He wanted that finals win as much as anyone.

The pathetic fact of the matter is that the dumb posters on here drinking the Manu haterade thinks its ok to call him names and talk crap about him. All I can say is these posters are ungrateful bastards and should become cHeat fans.Not my fault that Manu is your favorite player. Trust me, there are A LOT of people that are upset at Manu just happens to be that most of the people that patrol these forums are Manu fan boys. I appreciate everything that Manu's done for the Spurs but he deserves all the criticism that he's getting. He and Pop pretty much single-handedly cost Timmy's #5. I don't think the Manu hatred will stop throughout the offseason so just get used to it.
Damn that little cat is always riding manus sack, would hate to see what he or she would do if they met him Trust me, you don't wanna know.

[Sean Cagney]

Re sign him FOR ALOT less obviously! Play him in a different role next year. That is what they should try to do.

[DJR210]

Give the guy a contract..and a clipboard.

[dallasmaverickslose]

Not my fault that Manu is your favorite player. Trust me, there are A LOT of people that are upset at Manu just happens to be that most of the people that patrol these forums are Manu fan boys. I appreciate everything that Manu's done for the Spurs but he deserves all the criticism that he's getting. He and Pop pretty much single-handedly cost Timmy's #5. I don't think the Manu hatred will stop throughout the offseason so just get used to it.Trust me, you don't wanna know.

Not criticism. People on this site are HARASSING Manu. And that's why I have to come up and bat for him. This irrational hate & anger is going over the top.

And like I said, you try to ignore that Manu played with heart and gave it his all. He wanted that ring as much as anyone. How the hell can you hate this guy, knowing this?

[baseline bum]

They should re-sign him for a year or two and give it another go next season.

[chapnis]

2yr/10mil, 2nd year player option.

[tesseractive]

Manu is a UFA, IIRC... the Spurs don't have any rights to 'renounce'...

I trust the FO knows what how to negotiate with free agents at this point :rolleyes
Maybe he meant the cap hold from his Bird rights, so that we could get under the cap?

[tesseractive]

2yr/10mil, 2nd year player option.
This seems pretty fair, IMO.

[TheGreatYacht]

I'm looking at the poll results so far and the one good conclusion that I can make is that roughly 75% of the voters are on the right ship which is that Manu should take less money and play a smaller role on the team.

Another thing this poll proves is that the amount of Manu fan boys, 25%, is much smaller than what I thought. I knew my theory was correct that most of the people who patrol these forums happen to be Manu worshippers. To those that think Manu deserves to be paid 5-10 million for 2 years, please stop being so generous to a guy that cost us a championship. All of you Manu lovers, get real. Stop being delusional. Will reality ever hit you'll? 75 % > 25 %

Manu deserves all the critique that most of us true fans are giving him.

[Knoxxx]

Bottom line: If Tim can play for $10 million while being all NBA, Manu can play for $2.7.

While I understand why some of the less mature posters are piling on about Manu's Finals play, I don't see a need for it. I guess we all cope in different ways. Personally I felt a lot more disappointment than anger towards Manu. Disbelief I would add at some of the passes, but it's over let it go. It is entirely possible he has some decent ball left in him for the next couple of years.

[Capt Bringdown]

LOL, after years of "He's Manu Ginobli," "you gotta take the good with the bad," and "Manu plays only one way," baby-talk, all of a sudden Manu's going do a 180 and magically transform his busted, broken-down game into a new role. What exactly is that role? For that matter, what role at all can he CONSISTENTLY fill at this point?
He's not Ray Allen...or even Shawn Battier at this point.

The rationale was that we can live with Manu's fragility, increasingly erratic play and declining skills because "He's Manu Ginobli." In other words, a stud that you can count on in the clutch, when it matters.
2013 finals say hello. He cannot be counted on. You definitely do not want him on the court in crunch time. He cannot handle the pressure. He cannot deliver.
And he's only going to get worse.

[temujin]

Irrelevant question.

What do the Spurs have to offer that he is lacking?

[elemento]

Re-sign him for cheap

[CitizenDwayne]

he's only going to get worse.

My god, what a horrifying thought.

[jARS mEsH sEt]

Not criticism. People on this site are HARASSING Manu. And that's why I have to come up and bat for him. This irrational hate & anger is going over the top.

And like I said, you try to ignore that Manu played with heart and gave it his all. He wanted that ring as much as anyone. How the hell can you hate this guy, knowing this?

:cry :cry :cry poor Manu we're calling him names on an internet message board that he doesn't even read (read: "HARASSING" :lmao) and all he has to show for it is $100,000,000 in lifetime earnings :cry :cry :cry

Get the fuck over yourself.

[jARS mEsH sEt]

LOL, after years of "He's Manu Ginobli," "you gotta take the good with the bad," and "Manu plays only one way," baby-talk, all of a sudden Manu's going do a 180 and magically transform his busted, broken-down game into a new role. What exactly is that role? For that matter, what role at all can he CONSISTENTLY fill at this point?
He's not Ray Allen...or even Shawn Battier at this point.

The rationale was that we can live with Manu's fragility, increasingly erratic play and declining skills because "He's Manu Ginobli." In other words, a stud that you can count on in the clutch, when it matters.
2013 finals say hello. He cannot be counted on. You definitely do not want him on the court in crunch time. He cannot handle the pressure. He cannot deliver.
And he's only going to get worse.

This. I made a joke thread about Manu never scoring 20 points in game about a year ago, but some of those joke reasons are slowly coming to fruition. He doesn't have the shooting touch that someone like Ray Allen has. His shooting is incredibly inconsistent and streaky. Hell, his free throw shooting is inconsistent which is a scary thought. He's not really a lock down defender. Without his athleticism, he can't really penetrate into the paint when he's one of the focal points for the opposing defense. What does he honestly bring to the table now?

[Kidd K]

Bring him back for significantly less pay, but reduce the responsibilities he has on the court. No more 25%+ USG%. It needs to be around 20%.

Bring in a free agent backup PG to help handle the 2nd unit responsbilities with Manu.

Manu should no longer be on the court unless it's as the 2nd best player against the other team's 2nd unit, or as the 3rd best player with Duncan and Tony out there imo.

He's not good enough to be used like he used to be anymore. If you compare and contrast the offensive and defensive ratings of each player on the team, Manu's was 2nd worst of all of our high minutes players last year (He was 7th out of 8 guys total, only Neal was worse) despite having the 3rd highest USG% on the team (way higher than #4).

I wouldn't mind having him back, just for way less pay and a reduced role while bringing in someone new to take the burden off him. And to give us another option when Manu's shitting the bed and being too mentally weak to snap out of it.

Even though I still can't forgive him for how shitty he played in the Finals, I still think he can be an asset to the team. He just needs to be used properly in reference to his current skill level. . .not in reference to what he used to be able to do.

[dallasmaverickslose]

:cry :cry :cry poor Manu we're calling him names on an internet message board that he doesn't even read (read: "HARASSING" :lmao) and all he has to show for it is $100,000,000 in lifetime earnings :cry :cry :cry

Get the fuck over yourself.

LOL, another irrational Manu hater. Trying to find every possible excuse to talk crap about him, eh? How about you "get the fuck over yourself" and move on from the loss, and reflect on what a great season we had.

[ElNono]

This. I made a joke thread about Manu never scoring 20 points in game about a year ago, but some of those joke reasons are slowly coming to fruition. He doesn't have the shooting touch that someone like Ray Allen has. His shooting is incredibly inconsistent and streaky. Hell, his free throw shooting is inconsistent which is a scary thought. He's not really a lock down defender. Without his athleticism, he can't really penetrate into the paint when he's one of the focal points for the opposing defense. What does he honestly bring to the table now?

Cool story... you know how many 20+ pts games Ray Allen had last season? seven... you know how many Manu had? seven... :lol

[jARS mEsH sEt]

LOL, another irrational Manu hater. Trying to find every possible excuse to talk crap about him, eh? How about you "get the fuck over yourself" and move on from the loss, and reflect on what a great season we had.

:lmao your asshurt is showing

http://www.healthgrades.com/proctology-directory


Cool story... you know how many 20+ pts games Ray Allen had last season? seven... you know how many Manu had? seven... :lol

We still have our bet. What are you up to now? I think Manu's had two or three 20 point games since our bet, so 2 or 3/10. IIRC I think I said I'd "give" you an extra point for his game 5 20 point game if you wanted it. I'm still confident that he won't hit 10 before he retires.

[jARS mEsH sEt]

By the way ElNono (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=8054), Ray shot 45% from the field and 42% from 3 last season. Manu? 43% from the field and 35% from 3. Hell if Manu were shooting as efficiently as Ray, his lack of 20 point games would be a total non-issue.

[ElNono]

We still have our bet. What are you up to now? I think Manu's had two or three 20 point games since our bet, so 2 or 3/10. IIRC I think I said I'd "give" you an extra point for his game 5 20 point game if you wanted it. I'm still confident that he won't hit 10 before he retires.

I wouldn't have taken the bet if I didn't think he could pull it off... I suspect he'll have two more seasons to do it...


By the way ElNono (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=8054), Ray shot 45% from the field and 42% from 3 last season. Manu? 43% from the field and 35% from 3. Hell if Manu were shooting as efficiently as Ray, his lack of 20 point games would be a total non-issue.

Yet he couldn't crack the 20+ point mark any more times than Manu, even though he played 19 more games than him... not to mention Ray, who is a great vet, is not asked to do anything else in Miami.

Manu had 274 assists last season (#2 for the Spurs, about 90 more than #3 in Duncan), Ray 135 (again, with 19 more games)... you do the math on how many points that translates to...

[TheGoldStandard]

Vet minimum after everyone is signed.

[Capt Bringdown]

Well, Manu and Ray Allen have one big thing in common: both of them are Spurs Killers.

[Rogue]

paying him 3-5m a year for a few more seasons wouldn't sound a bad thing to them spurs imho. Dude can still ball but you just can't expect him to be the super manu every night. a good deal of the hatred on him originates from the 14m salary of this season, and you guys will feel lucky to have such a legendary player on your side for another 3-4 seasons while paying him below-average salary. Manu can still do a decent job playing a similar role like Giggs/Scholes on Manchester United from 10 to 13, they're old so you can't expect them to shine every night, but they can still be your most brilliant player out there once in a while (like game 5 vs. Miami)

[ElNono]

IMO, he'll be making more than Green... and he should... I don't think the Spurs will have a problem with that, nor it would derail anything the FO wants to do this summer...

BTW, Ray Allen is making 3m this season at 37, and he'll be cashing in another 3.2m next season at 38...

[TheGreatYacht]

paying him 3-5m a year for a few more seasons wouldn't sound a bad thing to them spurs imho. Dude can still ball but you just can't expect him to be the super manu every night. a good deal of the hatred on him originates from the 14m salary of this season, and you guys will feel lucky to have such a legendary player on your side for another 3-4 seasons while paying him below-average salary. Manu can still do a decent job playing a similar role like Giggs/Scholes on Manchester United from 10 to 13, they're old so you can't expect them to shine every night, but they can still be your most brilliant player out there once in a while (like game 5 vs. Miami)Please don't post here when you obviously don't watch the Spurs as much as we Spurs fans do. I've watched Manu play all year and a lot of times I was yelling at my screen "fuc*ing Manu I hope you retire soon" so his Game 6 performance of the NBA Finals was only the cherry on top for me. I knew this Manu downfall was coming sooner than later.
IMO, he'll be making more than Green... and he should... I don't think the Spurs will have a problem with that, nor it would derail anything the FO wants to do this summer...

BTW, Ray Allen is making 3m this season at 37, and he'll be cashing in another 3.2m next season at 38...LMAO. Danny Green > present Manu Ginobili. Look at the poll results. Get real. Manu deserves what he deserves. I hope that the FO is smart enough to give Manu what he deserves which is what roughly 79 % of us believe thus far.

[ElNono]

LMAO. Danny Green > present Manu Ginobili. Look at the poll results. Get real. Manu deserves what he deserves. I hope that the FO is smart enough to give Manu what he deserves which is what roughly 79 % of us believe thus far.

I'm not even sure what do you mean by 'lucrative deal' in the poll... I actually expect option B to happen, and that would translate to a 3m-5m/year salary, IMO... unless somehow he takes the mini-mle at $2.5m per (IIRC)

and lol @ a 65 person poll being representative of anything...

[DPG21920]

They should give him the book old yeller so he understands what is about to happen tbh..

[TheGoldStandard]

Manu is worth about 1.5 Mil in his current state.

[DPG21920]

That certainly is not true^

[Rogue]

Please don't post here when you obviously don't watch the Spurs as much as we Spurs fans do. I've watched Manu play all year and a lot of times I was yelling at my screen "fuc*ing Manu I hope you retire soon" so his Game 6 performance of the NBA Finals was only the cherry on top for me. I knew this Manu downfall was coming sooner than later.LMAO. Danny Green > present Manu Ginobili. Look at the poll results. Get real. Manu deserves what he deserves. I hope that the FO is smart enough to give Manu what he deserves which is what roughly 79 % of us believe thus far.
Of course I don't spend all my time watching spurs games when I'm not a spur fan and when I need to spend some time at school learning new knowledge as well as learning to be a good person. A friend of mine (mono) has been deprived of the privilege to post upstairs, maybe he trolled a lot in this forum but I'm not sure, and I don't see how and why I'm gonna deserve such unfair treatment. I'm just trying to be a decent person and I'm just gonna stick by basketball talk. Those who troll others for fun will get banned first, let's wait and see.

And I don't see no fun in vilifying such a legendary player that Manu is, even though he's old and tattered. The fact is that Manu can still manage a brilliant performance once in a while, like the game 5 against Miami which you must have watched since you're a spurs fan, and which you must have not forgotten yet despite how stupid you probably are because that only happened less than 2 weeks ago. I understood most fans throwing trash talk when he had a bad game, it was heart breaking to see your team getting defeated in the finals (which I've also experienced as a mav fan) but life will continue, and most fans have finally come back to the fact that they just lost the series to a better team.

[TheGoldStandard]

That certainly is not true^

If Kawhi Leonard is making 1.9Mil and Danny Green is making 3.5 you'd pay him more? Not in his current state nope..

[DPG21920]

If Kawhi Leonard is making 1.9Mil and Danny Green is making 3.5 you'd pay him more? Not in his current state nope..

I am disappointed in Manu beyond belief, but that logic doesn't work. Leonard is making that not because of what he's worth, but because he was forced into it. Manu, based on what he is worth, is worth a lot more than you mentioned. Even from a purely business decision perspective he's worth more.

If Manu wanted, he could really hold the Spurs financially hostage. I'm not expecting him to do so, but if he knows the Spurs pretty much have to keep him, he could quite easily fetch a 10M contract somewhere.

[TheGoldStandard]

I am disappointed in Manu beyond belief, but that logic doesn't work. Leonard is making that not because of what he's worth, but because he was forced into it. Manu, based on what he is worth, is worth a lot more than you mentioned. Even from a purely business decision perspective he's worth more.

If Manu wanted, he could really hold the Spurs financially hostage. I'm not expecting him to do so, but if he knows the Spurs pretty much have to keep him, he could quite easily fetch a 10M contract somewhere.

HAHA, RC is loyal but he wouldn't hold Spurs hostage by any means.. They'd reluctantly say, "good luck, see you in a season or so when you sign for 1 day so you can retire here". It's nostalgia that blinds a lot of people but Manu is not the be all end all of the Spurs anymore.

[ElNono]

Kawhi is on a rookie deal... if he wouldn't be, he would be getting paid a whole lot more... and hell yeah you would pay him more than Danny Green, who still can't dribble a basketball or run a pick & roll...

[DPG21920]

Kawhi is on a rookie deal... if he wouldn't be, he would be getting paid a whole lot more... and hell yeah you would pay him more than Danny Green, who still can't dribble a basketball or run a pick & roll...

To be fair, neither can Manu when it matters..

[dallasmaverickslose]

HAHA, RC is loyal but he wouldn't hold Spurs hostage by any means.. They'd reluctantly say, "good luck, see you in a season or so when you sign for 1 day so you can retire here". It's nostalgia that blinds a lot of people but Manu is not the be all end all of the Spurs anymore.

As big of a Manu fanboy as I am proud to say, I am absolutely 100% against overpaying him. However, I know that won't happen, because Manu sees the bigger picture. Yes, he's clearly not the player he once was, but that's no reason to garner all the hate he has received. What people on this site are saying about Manu is sickening, quite frankly.

[TheGoldStandard]

Kawhi is on a rookie deal... if he wouldn't be, he would be getting paid a whole lot more... and hell yeah you would pay him more than Danny Green, who still can't dribble a basketball or run a pick & roll...

Danny has his flaws but Danny is not getting paid 3.5 to dribble the ball, its unfortunate that he hasn't learned to put the ball on the floor when he's run off the 3 point line but at 35 and declining badly he's not worth a 3.5 a year.. that's too much salary to absorb for someone who's not going to be a focal point next year or at least shouldn't be.

[ElNono]

To be fair, neither can Manu when it matters..

:rolleyes

He did it for 60+ games this season... heck, I would argue Green looks as good as he does because guys like Tony and Manu...

I suspect even Neal's next salary will easily start at $2m-$3m...

[Spursfanfromafar]

Top 10 Guards/Swing-men above 6'4'' in the league sorted on Win shares/48 minutes -



Rk
Player
Ht
Season
Age
Tm
Lg
G
GS
MP
PER
TS%
eFG%
ORB%
DRB%
TRB%
AST%
STL%
BLK%
TOV%
USG%
ORtg
DRtg
OWS
DWS
WS
WS/48 ▾
FG%
3P%
FT%


1
James Harden (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/h/hardeja01.html)
6-5
2012-13
23
HOU (http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/HOU/2013.html)
NBA (http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2013.html)
78
78
2985
23.0
.600
.504
2.4
11.9
7.2
25.7
2.4
1.0
14.9
29.0
116
106
9.8
3.0
12.8
.206
.438
.368
.851


2
Dwyane Wade (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/wadedw01.html)
6-4
2012-13
31
MIA (http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/MIA/2013.html)
NBA (http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2013.html)
69
69
2391
24.0
.571
.528
4.7
12.6
8.9
26.6
2.8
1.9
13.2
29.5
112
103
6.1
3.5
9.6
.192
.521
.258
.725


3
Kobe Bryant (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/bryanko01.html)
6-6
2012-13
34
LAL (http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/LAL/2013.html)
NBA (http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2013.html)
78
78
3013
23.0
.570
.504
2.5
13.1
7.9
29.7
1.8
0.6
13.3
31.9
112
107
8.4
2.6
10.9
.174
.463
.324
.839


4
Kevin Martin (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/m/martike02.html)
6-7
2012-13
29
OKC (http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/OKC/2013.html)
NBA (http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2013.html)
77
0
2136
16.0
.608
.551
1.8
7.4
4.8
7.9
1.7
0.3
10.2
21.0
117
107
5.0
2.0
7.0
.157
.450
.426
.890


5
Manu Ginobili (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/g/ginobma01.html)
6-6
2012-13
35
SAS (http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/SAS/2013.html)
NBA (http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2013.html)
60
0
1393
19.0
.560
.502
2.6
13.4
8.3
30.6
2.9
0.7
17.3
25.2
107
100
2.1
2.4
4.5
.155
.425
.353
.796


6
Thabo Sefolosha (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/s/sefolth01.html)
6-5
2012-13
28
OKC (http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/OKC/2013.html)
NBA (http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2013.html)
81
81
2229
12.8
.617
.597
3.2
12.4
8.2
8.2
2.4
1.5
11.4
11.4
121
103
3.6
3.1
6.8
.146
.481
.419
.826


7
Martell Webster (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/webstma02.html)
6-7
2012-13
26
WAS (http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/WAS/2013.html)
NBA (http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2013.html)
76
62
2200
13.9
.601
.551
2.7
12.2
7.4
10.7
1.2
0.6
11.1
16.9
115
106
3.9
2.4
6.3
.138
.442
.422
.848


8
Vince Carter (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/c/cartevi01.html)
6-6
2012-13
36
DAL (http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/DAL/2013.html)
NBA (http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2013.html)
81
3
2093
17.8
.571
.530
3.1
14.4
8.9
15.0
1.8
1.6
10.0
23.1
111
106
3.9
2.0
6.0
.137
.435
.406
.816


9
John Wall (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/walljo01.html)
6-4
2012-13
22
WAS (http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/WAS/2013.html)
NBA (http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2013.html)
49
42
1602
20.8
.521
.449
2.4
11.2
6.8
43.9
2.1
1.8
15.3
29.3
105
103
2.2
2.2
4.5
.134
.441
.267
.804


10
Dorell Wright (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/wrighdo01.html)
6-7
2012-13
27
PHI (http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/PHI/2013.html)
NBA (http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2013.html)
79
8
1783
16.0
.551
.508
2.6
17.0
9.6
13.1
1.8
1.5
8.8
18.7
112
105
2.8
2.1
4.9
.132
.396
.374
.851


Manu Ginobili is 5th.

Sort the same on PER, and Manu is again 5th on the list.

Do that for the playoffs and Manu is again 5th on the list on the basis of WS/48 for players who have atleast played two series (for a decent sample size).

Effectively, Manu was the fourth best shooting guard in the league in 2012-13, behind James Harden, Kobe Bryant and Dwyane Wade. And he was better than Kevin Martin and the rest.

James Harden is going to be (deservedly) paid a max contract next year.

Kobe Bryant is the highest paid player in the league (with an Achilles heel injury ) next year (also deservedly to an extent).

Dwyane Wade will be paid a max contract again next season.

Kevin Martin was paid $10 mil this year and will expect a similar contract.

Other off guards such as Joe Johnson will be paid $20 million for performances that are way below Manu's this season, despite Manu's bouts with injury and his underwhelming play.

The only thing not going for Manu in the group is that he is above 35 and will be playing for his last contract.

Something like $4.5 million per year as the starting offer (for two years) for Manu would be a steal for the Spurs. If he can stay healthy and play a large chunk of his possibly two more seasons for the Spurs, his contract will continue to be a "very valuable" one as has been the case throughout his career.

Unlike what some bums and GNSF buffoons say.

[TheGoldStandard]

As big of a Manu fanboy as I am proud to say, I am absolutely 100% against overpaying him. However, I know that won't happen, because Manu sees the bigger picture. Yes, he's clearly not the player he once was, but that's no reason to garner all the hate he has received. What people on this site are saying about Manu is sickening, quite frankly.

I agree, I think Manu knows his time is short and he's coming back as a mentor to the young guys and whoever they draft.. He'll play but his role will be scaled back and his pay will reflect that.

[DPG21920]

:rolleyes

He did it for 60+ games this season... heck, I would argue Green looks as good as he does because guys like Tony and Manu...

I suspect even Neal's next salary will easily start at $2m-$3m...

I'm not arguing salary. I said when it matters.

[ElNono]

Danny has his flaws but Danny is not getting paid 3.5 to dribble the ball, its unfortunate that he hasn't learned to put the ball on the floor when he's run off the 3 point line but at 35 and declining badly he's not worth a 3.5 a year.. that's too much salary to absorb for someone who's not going to be a focal point next year or at least shouldn't be.

You just have no idea how much players are getting paid in this league... Danny was an absolute steal at 3.5/season... if he would've been a free agent this summer, you couldn't get him for less than $5m, easily...

We've been paying Bonner to suck for the past 3 years in the $3m-$4m range... and some people though it was cheap.

I don't care how much you think Manu blows at this stage, he still brings more to this team, both on and off the court than most every player in this team except TD, TP and Kawhi...

[ElNono]

I'm not arguing salary. I said when it matters.

Well, every game matters... and he's certainly not the only one that didn't bring it in some games...

[DPG21920]

Just the majority of them in the finals.

[ElNono]

Just the majority of them in the finals.

I would agree he didn't bring it consistently in these specific Finals.

Game 5 mattered. He brought it.

Not every Spur brought it in every game. I don't think we're holding them to the same standards...

[TheGoldStandard]

You just have no idea how much players are getting paid in this league... Danny was an absolute steal at 3.5/season... if he would've been a free agent this summer, you couldn't get him for less than $5m, easily...

We've been paying Bonner to suck for the past 3 years in the $3m-$4m range... and some people though it was cheap.

I don't care how much you think Manu blows at this stage, he still brings more to this team, both on and off the court than most every player in this team except TD, TP and Kawhi...

Danny's salary was good for what he accomplished last year when they signed him, yeah if he was up for a contract this season he probably isn't a spur because he'd get overpaid somewhere.. I don't argue with the fact that Bonner has been overpaid as well to spread the floor and sit on the bench.. I know what they're paying but this is a year where you have cap space and you have players that won't be around forever, so lets not keep the status quo by paying players more than what they'll contribute over the next 2 years in the roles they'll be playing..

I like Manu, I just don't see him finding that fountain of youth that Timmy found and being productive next year or on a 2nd year to pay him 10 or 12 million a year. The fact that he'll be another year older, the fact that he's probably going to play during the summer should indicate he'll probably break down again this season and his game will drop off. I'm not going to mortgage cap space on the premise that he's going to bring something next year that we can't find in an emerging Kawhi or a better Danny Green.. we have no idea what the Spurs are planning to do in the offseason but lets hope its not overpay Manu.

[DPG21920]

I would agree he didn't bring it consistently in these specific Finals.

Game 5 mattered. He brought it.

Not every Spur brought it in every game. I don't think we're holding them to the same standards...

It's simple. Everyone but one player played well enough to win a title. You might argue Tiago didn't, and I would agree, but he's not a big 3 member.

[TheGreatYacht]

Danny's salary was good for what he accomplished last year when they signed him, yeah if he was up for a contract this season he probably isn't a spur because he'd get overpaid somewhere.. I don't argue with the fact that Bonner has been overpaid as well to spread the floor and sit on the bench.. I know what they're paying but this is a year where you have cap space and you have players that won't be around forever, so lets not keep the status quo by paying players more than what they'll contribute over the next 2 years in the roles they'll be playing..

I like Manu, I just don't see him finding that fountain of youth that Timmy found and being productive next year or on a 2nd year to pay him 10 or 12 million a year. The fact that he'll be another year older, the fact that he's probably going to play during the summer should indicate he'll probably break down again this season and his game will drop off. I'm not going to mortgage cap space on the premise that he's going to bring something next year that we can't find in an emerging Kawhi or a better Danny Green.. we have no idea what the Spurs are planning to do in the offseason but lets hope its not overpay Manu.Very well said. Having cap space this offseason makes every dollar (ever $1 million to be more precise) very valuable. Teams don't always count on cap space every year so why over pay Manu when every single dollar paid to Manu can be used better elsewhere.

It's simple. Everyone but one player played well enough to win a title. You might argue Tiago didn't, and I would agree, but he's not a big 3 member.Definitely. Pop and Manu pretty much single-handedly cost us a tittle.

[ElNono]

Danny's salary was good for what he accomplished last year when they signed him, yeah if he was up for a contract this season he probably isn't a spur because he'd get overpaid somewhere.. I don't argue with the fact that Bonner has been overpaid as well to spread the floor and sit on the bench.. I know what they're paying but this is a year where you have cap space and you have players that won't be around forever, so lets not keep the status quo by paying players more than what they'll contribute over the next 2 years in the roles they'll be playing..

I like Manu, I just don't see him finding that fountain of youth that Timmy found and being productive next year or on a 2nd year to pay him 10 or 12 million a year. The fact that he'll be another year older, the fact that he's probably going to play during the summer should indicate he'll probably break down again this season and his game will drop off. I'm not going to mortgage cap space on the premise that he's going to bring something next year that we can't find in an emerging Kawhi or a better Danny Green.. we have no idea what the Spurs are planning to do in the offseason but lets hope its not overpay Manu.

We already know he won't be playing during the summer because he already communicated with the NT coach and told him he won't be playing.

Also, there's many different scenarios at play here that might not even matter as far as how much Manu gets paid and the cap situation. As Chinook explained, if the Spurs opt to remain over the cap, then whatever Splitter or Manu get won't really matter.

There's also the possibility that the FO might want to sell him into the mini-mle exception, and he might take that.

The Spurs were on a somewhat similar situation with Tim last summer once his salary came off the book, and they spent enough but kept a certain amount for Tim, which Tim took (around $10m)... I don't foresee this situation being much different.

A vet minimum offer is basically telling him they don't want him back, and I expect the Spurs just to tell him exactly that if that's how they feel. I haven't seen any indication from the FO that they're going that route.

Frankly, there's a lot of chatter about Manu, but I think resigning Splitter might end up being the biggest issue money-wise here.

[ElNono]

It's simple. Everyone but one player played well enough to win a title. You might argue Tiago didn't, and I would agree, but he's not a big 3 member.

I would argue they all played well enough to win a title. As a matter of fact, they played well enough to be a rebound or shot away from a title. I don't particularly have a problem with that, in light of what our playoffs appearances have looked like in the previous 5 seasons.

Could some of them have played even better? Sure. Does that include Manu? you bet. Is that any indicator of future production? I don't think so. Many players have had up and down series through the seasons, including different members of the big 3.

[DPG21920]

rolleyes.

[ElNono]

:lol

[ElNono]

BTW, DPG, good to see you talking basketball again, tbh

[DPG21920]

It's what I'm here for.

[ElNono]

Are you gonna take some of these young fellows under your wing? did some already PM you, tbh?

[DPG21920]

I've not found anyone that is pure enough as of yet. But I am here to talk basketball, mentor and give real life advice for all that seek it.

[ElNono]

Sounds like a lot of selfless work... :tu

[TheGoldStandard]

We already know he won't be playing during the summer because he already communicated with the NT coach and told him he won't be playing.

Also, there's many different scenarios at play here that might not even matter as far as how much Manu gets paid and the cap situation. As Chinook (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=37557) explained, if the Spurs opt to remain over the cap, then whatever Splitter or Manu get won't really matter.

There's also the possibility that the FO might want to sell him into the mini-mle exception, and he might take that.

The Spurs were on a somewhat similar situation with Tim last summer once his salary came off the book, and they spent enough but kept a certain amount for Tim, which Tim took (around $10m)... I don't foresee this situation being much different.

A vet minimum offer is basically telling him they don't want him back, and I expect the Spurs just to tell him exactly that if that's how they feel. I haven't seen any indication from the FO that they're going that route.

Frankly, there's a lot of chatter about Manu, but I think resigning Splitter might end up being the biggest issue money-wise here.

For the Spurs sake I hope they don't go the route of keeping the status quo and thinking that they'll be just as good next year. I want to be optimistic but I don't know if Duncan can sustain another solid year like he did and Manu and Parker were both injured last year for long stretches of the season. I do see Pop giving plays to Kawhi but outside of that I don't see them developing anyone else at this point so its time to get athletic with the cap space that they have.

The Spurs should not consider this anything like the deal with Duncan last year.. 2 different players and different impacts on the team. If Duncan were off this team they'd be a shell on the inside, would be just a horrible thing to do but we've seen Manu out of the lineup for long stretches with injuries and we've maintained and over the course of the playoffs he didn't have any single performances on consecutive nights that were needed to win games. Vet Minimum is ideal, 1.5 to 2.0 with maybe some incentives to boost the salary. Tiago is going to get overpaid, I just hope not by the Spurs.

[chapnis]

Top 10 Guards/Swing-men above 6'4'' in the league sorted on Win shares/48 minutes -



Rk
Player
Ht
Season
Age
Tm
Lg
G
GS
MP
PER
TS%
eFG%
ORB%
DRB%
TRB%
AST%
STL%
BLK%
TOV%
USG%
ORtg
DRtg
OWS
DWS
WS
WS/48 ▾
FG%
3P%
FT%


1
James Harden (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/h/hardeja01.html)
6-5
2012-13
23
HOU (http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/HOU/2013.html)
NBA (http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2013.html)
78
78
2985
23.0
.600
.504
2.4
11.9
7.2
25.7
2.4
1.0
14.9
29.0
116
106
9.8
3.0
12.8
.206
.438
.368
.851


2
Dwyane Wade (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/wadedw01.html)
6-4
2012-13
31
MIA (http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/MIA/2013.html)
NBA (http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2013.html)
69
69
2391
24.0
.571
.528
4.7
12.6
8.9
26.6
2.8
1.9
13.2
29.5
112
103
6.1
3.5
9.6
.192
.521
.258
.725


3
Kobe Bryant (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/bryanko01.html)
6-6
2012-13
34
LAL (http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/LAL/2013.html)
NBA (http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2013.html)
78
78
3013
23.0
.570
.504
2.5
13.1
7.9
29.7
1.8
0.6
13.3
31.9
112
107
8.4
2.6
10.9
.174
.463
.324
.839


4
Kevin Martin (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/m/martike02.html)
6-7
2012-13
29
OKC (http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/OKC/2013.html)
NBA (http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2013.html)
77
0
2136
16.0
.608
.551
1.8
7.4
4.8
7.9
1.7
0.3
10.2
21.0
117
107
5.0
2.0
7.0
.157
.450
.426
.890


5
Manu Ginobili (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/g/ginobma01.html)
6-6
2012-13
35
SAS (http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/SAS/2013.html)
NBA (http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2013.html)
60
0
1393
19.0
.560
.502
2.6
13.4
8.3
30.6
2.9
0.7
17.3
25.2
107
100
2.1
2.4
4.5
.155
.425
.353
.796


6
Thabo Sefolosha (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/s/sefolth01.html)
6-5
2012-13
28
OKC (http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/OKC/2013.html)
NBA (http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2013.html)
81
81
2229
12.8
.617
.597
3.2
12.4
8.2
8.2
2.4
1.5
11.4
11.4
121
103
3.6
3.1
6.8
.146
.481
.419
.826


7
Martell Webster (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/webstma02.html)
6-7
2012-13
26
WAS (http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/WAS/2013.html)
NBA (http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2013.html)
76
62
2200
13.9
.601
.551
2.7
12.2
7.4
10.7
1.2
0.6
11.1
16.9
115
106
3.9
2.4
6.3
.138
.442
.422
.848


8
Vince Carter (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/c/cartevi01.html)
6-6
2012-13
36
DAL (http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/DAL/2013.html)
NBA (http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2013.html)
81
3
2093
17.8
.571
.530
3.1
14.4
8.9
15.0
1.8
1.6
10.0
23.1
111
106
3.9
2.0
6.0
.137
.435
.406
.816


9
John Wall (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/walljo01.html)
6-4
2012-13
22
WAS (http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/WAS/2013.html)
NBA (http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2013.html)
49
42
1602
20.8
.521
.449
2.4
11.2
6.8
43.9
2.1
1.8
15.3
29.3
105
103
2.2
2.2
4.5
.134
.441
.267
.804


10
Dorell Wright (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/wrighdo01.html)
6-7
2012-13
27
PHI (http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/PHI/2013.html)
NBA (http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2013.html)
79
8
1783
16.0
.551
.508
2.6
17.0
9.6
13.1
1.8
1.5
8.8
18.7
112
105
2.8
2.1
4.9
.132
.396
.374
.851


Manu Ginobili is 5th.

Sort the same on PER, and Manu is again 5th on the list.

Do that for the playoffs and Manu is again 5th on the list on the basis of WS/48 for players who have atleast played two series (for a decent sample size).

Effectively, Manu was the fourth best shooting guard in the league in 2012-13, behind James Harden, Kobe Bryant and Dwyane Wade. And he was better than Kevin Martin and the rest.

James Harden is going to be (deservedly) paid a max contract next year.

Kobe Bryant is the highest paid player in the league (with an Achilles heel injury ) next year (also deservedly to an extent).

Dwyane Wade will be paid a max contract again next season.

Kevin Martin was paid $10 mil this year and will expect a similar contract.

Other off guards such as Joe Johnson will be paid $20 million for performances that are way below Manu's this season, despite Manu's bouts with injury and his underwhelming play.

The only thing not going for Manu in the group is that he is above 35 and will be playing for his last contract.

Something like $4.5 million per year as the starting offer (for two years) for Manu would be a steal for the Spurs. If he can stay healthy and play a large chunk of his possibly two more seasons for the Spurs, his contract will continue to be a "very valuable" one as has been the case throughout his career.

Unlike what some bums and GNSF buffoons say.

[TheGreatYacht]

For the Spurs sake I hope they don't go the route of keeping the status quo and thinking that they'll be just as good next year. I want to be optimistic but I don't know if Duncan can sustain another solid year like he did and Manu and Parker were both injured last year for long stretches of the season. I do see Pop giving plays to Kawhi but outside of that I don't see them developing anyone else at this point so its time to get athletic with the cap space that they have.

The Spurs should not consider this anything like the deal with Duncan last year.. 2 different players and different impacts on the team. If Duncan were off this team they'd be a shell on the inside, would be just a horrible thing to do but we've seen Manu out of the lineup for long stretches with injuries and we've maintained and over the course of the playoffs he didn't have any single performances on consecutive nights that were needed to win games. Vet Minimum is ideal, 1.5 to 2.0 with maybe some incentives to boost the salary. Tiago is going to get overpaid, I just hope not by the Spurs.This. Spurs should not overpay Manu and Tiago. I agree with your deal on Manu. I voted option B on the poll but now I wish I can change my mind and pick C LOL.

[ElNono]

For the Spurs sake I hope they don't go the route of keeping the status quo and thinking that they'll be just as good next year. I want to be optimistic but I don't know if Duncan can sustain another solid year like he did and Manu and Parker were both injured last year for long stretches of the season. I do see Pop giving plays to Kawhi but outside of that I don't see them developing anyone else at this point so its time to get athletic with the cap space that they have.

The Spurs should not consider this anything like the deal with Duncan last year.. 2 different players and different impacts on the team. If Duncan were off this team they'd be a shell on the inside, would be just a horrible thing to do but we've seen Manu out of the lineup for long stretches with injuries and we've maintained and over the course of the playoffs he didn't have any single performances on consecutive nights that were needed to win games. Vet Minimum is ideal, 1.5 to 2.0 with maybe some incentives to boost the salary. Tiago is going to get overpaid, I just hope not by the Spurs.

I personally think we're going to need to replace Neal, hopefully with an upgrade, and the situation with Tiago has me on the fences... I think he's an extremely limited guy, but at the same time, he's done a good job on defense, where I think the Spurs need to keep the focus on and also gives Tim the opportunity not to have to be the sole anchor inside. I just don't see many FAs out there right now that look like a major upgrade. Then we'll need some depth considering Blair, T-Mac, and hopefully Bonner are likely gone.

My intuition tells me that the fact we got to the WCF last season and improved to the Finals this season will embolden the FO to somewhat keep the status quo, tbh... there will be some changes and upgrades, perhaps some role changes based on those upgrades, but I would be surprised if there's anything major. Ride Kawhi, Green and perhaps Tiago improvements, see if they can also get CoJo and De Colo to improve and contribute too. Under that scenario, I see the Spurs offering a competitive salary to Manu ($3m-$5m), and I think that's ok.

I think once Duncan is gone, that's when they're going to perhaps try to make a bigger splash.

Now, before the "LOL we're gonna suck, you want the Spurs to fail", I'm just saying what I suspect it's going to happen. I have no actual say on any of that, and I could be completely wrong about it. We'll see.

[DPG21920]

If Manu takes 5M or less, he should be really appreciated for that.

[TheGoldStandard]

I personally think we're going to need to replace Neal, hopefully with an upgrade, and the situation with Tiago has me on the fences... I think he's an extremely limited guy, but at the same time, he's done a good job on defense, where I think the Spurs need to keep the focus on and also gives Tim the opportunity not to have to be the sole anchor inside. I just don't see many FAs out there right now that look like a major upgrade. Then we'll need some depth considering Blair, T-Mac, and hopefully Bonner are likely gone.

My intuition tells me that the fact we got to the WCF last season and improved to the Finals this season will embolden the FO to somewhat keep the status quo, tbh... there will be some changes and upgrades, perhaps some role changes based on those upgrades, but I would be surprised if there's anything major. Ride Kawhi, Green and perhaps Tiago improvements, see if they can also get CoJo and De Colo to improve and contribute too. Under that scenario, I see the Spurs offering a competitive salary to Manu ($3m-$5m), and I think that's ok.

I think once Duncan is gone, that's when they're going to perhaps try to make a bigger splash.

Now, before the "LOL we're gonna such, you want the Spurs to fail", I'm just saying what I suspect it's going to happen. I have no actual say on any of that, and I could be completely wrong about it. We'll see.

The Spurs as is are good enough to make the playoffs, probably will get past the 1st round with the team we have right now.. I just hate to think that they'll keep it simple as our core players enter there twilight. I agree that there are positions that the Spurs need to upgrade, Neal will get paid elsewhere I don't see the Spurs valuing him enough to pay him a high salary, don't know who they'd replace him with, maybe a draft prospect but they need to get bigger in size. The future of this league is length at all positions.

Tiago is a liability, he played competent defense against true bigs but he's slow when it comes to athletic guys which the league is changing to, he's probably maxed out offensively too.. No post game, no jump shot just an awkward swinging hook.

I just hope it doesn't take Duncan retiring for the Spurs to start scrambling to get players to make them competitive given the amount of drop off they'll have once he's gone.

[TheGreatYacht]

I personally think we're going to need to replace Neal, hopefully with an upgrade, and the situation with Tiago has me on the fences... I think he's an extremely limited guy, but at the same time, he's done a good job on defense, where I think the Spurs need to keep the focus on and also gives Tim the opportunity not to have to be the sole anchor inside. I just don't see many FAs out there right now that look like a major upgrade. Then we'll need some depth considering Blair, T-Mac, and hopefully Bonner are likely gone.
My intuition tells me that the fact we got to the WCF last season and improved to the Finals this season will embolden the FO to somewhat keep the status quo, tbh... there will be some changes and upgrades, perhaps some role changes based on those upgrades, but I would be surprised if there's anything major. Ride Kawhi, Green and perhaps Tiago improvements, see if they can also get CoJo and De Colo to improve and contribute too. Under that scenario, I see the Spurs offering a competitive salary to Manu ($3m-$5m), and I think that's ok.
I think once Duncan is gone, that's when they're going to perhaps try to make a bigger splash.
Now, before the "LOL we're gonna such, you want the Spurs to fail", I'm just saying what I suspect it's going to happen. I have no actual say on any of that, and I could be completely wrong about it. We'll see.LOL well I hope sure you're wrong on every single thing you said from ^^^ statement. TBH I really think that Al Jefferson and David West would have no problem replacing Tiago. I mean they both average slightly more rebounds and blocks than Tiago I think. Why wait till Tim Duncan is gone to make a splash? He's the main reason (and Kawhi) why we almost won #5. Might as well get Tim Duncan the help he needs and improve our chances big time by winning #5.

Fuc* that idea of hoping that CoJo and Nando further develop to play that desperately backup PG role. IMOP I would be content if the Spurs pick up a good backup PG via free agency and kept the rest of the team intact, minus Dejuan Blair of course, and try to get Aaron Baynes more involved.

[TheGoldStandard]

LOL well I hope sure you're wrong on every single thing you said from ^^^ statement. TBH I really think that Al Jefferson and David West would have no problem replacing Tiago. I mean they both average slightly more rebounds and blocks than Tiago I think. Why wait till Tim Duncan is gone to make a splash? He's the main reason (and Kawhi) why we almost won #5. Might as well get Tim Duncan the help he needs and improve our chances big time by winning #5.

Fuc* that idea of hoping that CoJo and Nando further develop to play that desperately backup PG role. IMOP I would be content if the Spurs pick up a good backup PG via free agency and kept the rest of the team intact, minus Dejuan Blair of course, and try to get Aaron Baynes more involved.

not a lot of true PG's out there.

[TheGreatYacht]

not a lot of true PG's out there.Jarret Jack, Jose Calderon, Nate Robinson, Devin Harris, Mo Williams, Chauncey Billups, Jerryd Bayless, Derek Fisher (we could probably get him for the veteran's minimum), CJ Watson, and Jeff Teague. Those are all that I can think of from the top of my head.

[TheGoldStandard]

Jarret Jack, Jose Calderon, Nate Robinson, Devin Harris, Mo Williams, Chauncey Billups, Jerryd Bayless, Derek Fisher (we could probably get him for the veteran's minimum), CJ Watson, and Jeff Teague. Those are all that I can think of from the top of my head.

Teague and Calderon are the only ones I'd like to see.. Don't see Chauncey playing a full season even in a backup role and the others are shoot first guards.

[ElNono]

The Spurs as is are good enough to make the playoffs, probably will get past the 1st round with the team we have right now.. I just hate to think that they'll keep it simple as our core players enter there twilight. I agree that there are positions that the Spurs need to upgrade, Neal will get paid elsewhere I don't see the Spurs valuing him enough to pay him a high salary, don't know who they'd replace him with, maybe a draft prospect but they need to get bigger in size. The future of this league is length at all positions.

Tiago is a liability, he played competent defense against true bigs but he's slow when it comes to athletic guys which the league is changing to, he's probably maxed out offensively too.. No post game, no jump shot just an awkward swinging hook.

I just hope it doesn't take Duncan retiring for the Spurs to start scrambling to get players to make them competitive given the amount of drop off they'll have once he's gone.

Well, as far as Tiago goes, I know the impression is what you have right now, but players can change and improve. He's young. He definitely needs a lot of work in his game. The Spurs should know by know what kind of guy they have, but also what kind of guy they can get to replace him. We need a 7 footer there, and those are not that easy to find nor cheap.

The reality is that unless Kawhi starts showing signs that he can be a superstar (and you can't rule that out at this point), we're going to have a severe drop when Duncan hangs em up. You can call me a homer, but I would even say we're going to have a fairly big drop if Manu retires too. People already severely underestimated the impact of a player like Bowen, even though he clearly lost a step before we got rid of him. It took us 4-5 years to eventually find a capable replacement and get back to playing defense.

[TheGoldStandard]

Well, as far as Tiago goes, I know the impression is what you have right now, but players can change and improve. He's young. He definitely needs a lot of work in his game. The Spurs should know by know what kind of guy they have, but also what kind of guy they can get to replace him. We need a 7 footer there, and those are not that easy to find nor cheap.

The reality is that unless Kawhi starts showing signs that he can be a superstar (and you can't rule that out at this point), we're going to have a severe drop when Duncan hangs em up. You can call me a homer, but I would even say we're going to have a fairly big drop if Manu retires too. People already severely underestimated the impact of a player like Bowen, even though he clearly lost a step before we got rid of him. It took us 4-5 years to eventually find a capable replacement and get back to playing defense.

I think the drop in defense was the way the league was going Pop thought it would be beneficial to focus on offense plus nobody was coming to san Antonio.. I understand 7 footers don't grow on trees but offensively I think he's really maxed out, I haven't seen one ounce of work on the block when he goes back to the rim. He gives up ground real easy and is content taking that shitty hook. His only major offense comes when he boards and puts the ball back. Also works if he catches the pick n roll low in the paint but that's not always the case.

[ElNono]

It's HARD to get FAs to San Antonio... it was hard to get them even when we were actual champs and Timmy was in his prime... remember the last time we had a ton of capspace and went all in for Jason Kidd? We ended up with what? Turkoglu?

[Rogue]

this summer will be a loyalty test on Manu imho. He's still a decent player but he isn't worth anything more than 5m/yr, if he really loves this team as much as I love my goddess he should choose to stay whatever the pay. Some teams will be offering him more than 5m/yr for his experience or his influence but it's not like anyone will be be paying him more than 10m a year. Manu is a smart guy and I believe he'll make the right decision for himself

[ElNono]

I think the drop in defense was the way the league was going Pop thought it would be beneficial to focus on offense plus nobody was coming to san Antonio.. I understand 7 footers don't grow on trees but offensively I think he's really maxed out, I haven't seen one ounce of work on the block when he goes back to the rim. He gives up ground real easy and is content taking that shitty hook. His only major offense comes when he boards and puts the ball back. Also works if he catches the pick n roll low in the paint but that's not always the case.

I think Pop was convinced they couldn't play that kind of D without Bowen. That was also the time when the FO knee-jerked after the Gasol trade and thought they needed more 'star' talent. But Pop has been saying he wanted to focus on defense for the past 3-4 seasons, and it never panned out until this one. It's tough to play D when your personnel is Bonner, Blair, RJ and Neal... Kawhi and Green have been godsends there, but they put in the work.

As far as Tiago, I'm not going to disagree that he needs a lot of work. IMO, he needs much better court awareness in general (to improve rebounding and passing), an actual back to the basket game that doesn't involve up and unders and waist-level hookshots, and if he wants to have an NBA career, a jumper of some sort. It's a lot of work ahead of him, that's why it's tough. A guy like Al Jefferson has a lot of that down, but Jefferson is a much worse defender overall. So, you know, you don't want to break the excellent D, but you don't want to overpay for what's currently limited talent.

[HI-FI]

It's HARD to get FAs to San Antonio... it was hard to get them even when we were actual champs and Timmy was in his prime... remember the last time we had a ton of capspace and went all in for Jason Kidd? We ended up with what? Turkoglu?

that's fucking sad. I remember that, I was so in favor us getting Kidd (i was already a parker hater then). Damn, Turk:lolglu, i'll remember him most for eating a pizza pregame. i know it's asked but why the FA's avoid SA? lack of endorsements, party scene etc....?

[Rogue]

It's HARD to get FAs to San Antonio... it was hard to get them even when we were actual champs and Timmy was in his prime... remember the last time we had a ton of capspace and went all in for Jason Kidd? We ended up with what? Turkoglu?

hard to get big name FAs but you could still lure some outdated superstars in town if I remember correct. Finley joined your team and rang the next year while getting paid by them Mavs. It's never easy to sign a superstar from free agency imho, not just for them spurs but for almost everyone. We went all out on the Triple D program last summer but ended up with nothing.

[ElNono]

that's fucking sad. I remember that, I was so in favor us getting Kidd (i was already a parker hater then). Damn, Turk:lolglu, i'll remember him most for eating a pizza pregame. i know it's asked but why the FA's avoid SA? lack of endorsements, party scene etc....?

There's many reasons I can think off the top of my head... one is like you said, off the court money. Small market is small. Then the Spurs are not the kind of team that overpays players or hands bad contracts in general, so we're not going to outbid many teams. I also suspect the team and coaching staff is generally pretty demanding, so you can't come here to coast or mail it in, or you won't play much nor last long. The party scene I doubt it's that much different if you want to have fun, but that's another thing the Spurs don't do, hire party animal guys (Jack notwithstanding)...

[HI-FI]

There's many reasons I can think off the top of my head... one is like you said, off the court money. Small market is small. Then the Spurs are not the kind of team that overpays players or hands bad contracts in general, so we're not going to outbid many teams. I also suspect the team and coaching staff is generally pretty demanding, so you can't come here to coast or mail it in, or you won't play much nor last long. The party scene I doubt it's that much different if you want to have fun, but that's another thing the Spurs don't do, hire party animal guys (Jack notwithstanding)...
:tu
so I wonder how much of a chance we have of getting Dwight, with all that in mind....

[TheGreatYacht]

Bump. Looks like 20.51% of you were right. RC Buford and the FO are just as kind and loyal as you guys are. :bang

[ChumpDumper]

Self bumping narcissism.

Are you going to kill yourself now as promised?